ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest is Nicola Bettesworth, Defra Chief People Officer, Group Corporate Services, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.  

I had the joy of meeting Nicola when she was looking for a leadership partner to work with her and her leadership team. We very quickly built our relationship, and have enjoyed a true partnership for a number of years. I greatly admire Nicola, her vision and her passion and am looking forward to her sharing her leadership story today.

In our conversation Nicola shares and offers valuable insights into:

• Contribution and Community;
• How Everyone Matters, Everyone Counts;
• The importance of knowing who you are, and of choices;
• Making every single moment count.

To connect with Nicola:

Email her on: nicola.bettesworth@defra.gov.uk 

To listen to other Leaders in Conversation with me Anni Townend:

Go to my website: www.annitownend.com

A big thank you to SHMOGUS Media for the wonderful production and marketing, and to Louisa Penny of Penny Writing for the marketing of the podcast.

To contact me Anni Townend do email me on anni@annitownend.com visit my website www.annitownend.com, subscribe to my newsletter and follow me on LinkedIn.  I look forward to connecting with you, thank you for listening.

Hello, welcome and welcome back to Leaders in Conversation with me, Annie Townend, podcast host and partner to Executives Leaders and their teams, co founder of Collaboration Equation and of the podcast Finding your collaborative edge with Lucy Kidd.

Leaders in Conversation is the podcast in which leaders weave together the threads of their life and and leadership stories, the people, places and experiences that have shaped them, their values, beliefs, passion and purpose to encourage and inspire you to be even more confident and courageous in your leadership. If you're not already, please do subscribe to the podcast review and share it. Thank you.

Today's guest is Nicola Bettesworth Defra, Chief People Officer Group, Corporate Services Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I had the joy of meeting Nicola when she was looking for a leadership partner to work with her and her leadership team.

We very quickly built our relationship and have enjoyed a true partnership for a number of years. I greatly admire Nicola, her vision and her passion, and I'm looking forward to her sharing her leadership story today. Welcome, Nicola.

Thank you, Annie. It's a delight to be here. It really is.

It's an honor for me, Nicola, to have this kind of conversation with you because in normal circumstances we're having a conversation, you and I together and or with your team, a team conversation, which is confidential to the day and to the people who are in the room or to you and I.

And one of the reasons I started Leaders in Conversation is because I get to work with wonderful leaders like you who are inspiring and who share their leadership stories, their passion and their purpose. But nobody, apart from the people who are in the room at the time gets to hear, to learn, to be inspired and to grow their confidence.

So it's a real joy for me to have you as a guest because you are somebody who inspires me in all the work that you do, not just the work that we do together. I've got two favorite questions that I think all leaders need to be able to answer and they are, who are you and why are you here?

Who are the people, the places and experiences that have made you, that have shaped your values and your beliefs and your passion?

It's been a lovely sort of period of reflection, actually, as I've thought about some of the sort of questions of my life. So who am I? I'm a wife. My husband is James. I am mum. I have two wonderful children, William and Holly. I'm a daughter to my mum.

My dad sadly passed away nearly two years ago. I am a sister to adored brother Jason, and I'm an aunt. And I suppose, last of all, I'M a leader. I'm a leader and member of a wonderful team.

I'm part of a work family and that's the way I think about my team. They're my immediate work family.

But I am blessed with being part of a wonderful bigger community that is DEFRA group, that is part of the civil service. But I also have connection to public service through the organizations that I am privileged to deliver a set of HR services to.

So I'm quite clear about the order that I talk about who I am. And leader is a little bit down the list. So leadership is an important part of who I am.

It's not the thing that is the most defining of who I am, but it's such a big part of me.

And when I think about the leader I am and how I've been formed, and I go back to my formative years and my childhood, the biggest inspiration for me as a leader is my dad. He is my hero and I think about the values and the sort of path that he set.

When I was young, I grew up in South Wales, in a little town just outside of Newport. My dad was born and grew up slightly further up the Welsh valleys. And my mum was born and grew up in the little village where we lived.

My sort of family background was all heavy industry, coal mining and then steel. That was the sort of environment that formed my parents when I came along. My dad was an engineer at the steelworks.

He believed firmly in his values, honesty, integrity, respect and just humanity and care for others. He was also very clear that the most important thing that we could do is to contribute to the community that we were part of.

And anyone that knows Wales would probably list somewhere in the definition of what Wales is, is community. It's so powerful.

Communities are close, tight, born out of that heavy industry that care for each other in difficult, challenging jobs and working lives. And that community is very powerful. And then you think about some of the other sort of attributes, like the rugby in Wales.

It's a religion, it's all about a team. It's about a group of people that you spend precious time with. And it's anchored in a rugby club, which is another powerful, important community.

So my dad believed very strongly in contributing to that community and playing an important part. That's what sort of defined me as I grew up. And I saw my dad become a leader himself.

And I remember him coming home and talking about the sort of opportunities, the challenges, the frustrations of working with people and delivering the best through people. And my dad brought his sort of Values of humanity and respect in the way that he cared for the people that he worked with.

I grew up seeing that, observing it, and really believing in it. And I saw my dad live his life in that way and be a leader in a community. And I think back to some wonderful events. When I was younger.

We had a carnival in the little town, and it was really an important part and a celebration of community. And my dad one year decided that we were going to put on a float in the carnival, the street.

And my dad helped define the sort of theme, built various sort of artifacts for the flow, and brought the community together. And he became the sort of leader of that community. And he used to do the same with bonfire night.

We would build on the waste ground opposite the house, this huge bonfire, which he would collect from every house up the road. And then we would host a small gathering and put on food and drink, and he would bring the community together.

And so I saw that, and I learned about care, compassion, know who you are, know your values, and if you can stand by those values, then you know you can look yourself in the mirror, know yourself to be a decent person and to be the best you can be. And so that's what sort of defined me. My dad remains my hero, and he remains my leadership inspiration.

It's really lovely hearing you talk about him and the things that were so important to him that he stood by his values especially, and how he lived them through his behavior. And for me, that's real integrity. It's one thing having values, it's another thing living them through your behavior. And he so clearly did.

And I was smiling as you spoke about it, him preparing some food for the street, as well as building the float and organizing it and leading it and remembering how important for you people gathering together, eating food together, and really taking care of people through nourishing them in whatever they're doing and thanking them. And one of your ways being through prayer, bringing people together around a meal.

I believe passionately that we are stronger together.

That through the diversity of our experiences, our knowledge, our skill, our capability, we can transcend from being good to being truly brilliant and outstanding. And it's the sum of the parts that you're always trying to put together.

I often say that one of my most important jobs as a leader is hiring people and then developing and nurturing people. And the job of hiring is always thinking about the combination of the community that you want to bring together to achieve a set of outcomes.

And in my sort of enduring search, I'm always looking for diamonds, those special bright lights that are shining, they may not know they're shining. You help to polish them and you help them to be brighter.

And apart from your dad and your family and the community, Nicola, who else were the people that helped you shine and be the leader that you are today?

Gosh, there are so many people that I have been privileged to work for and alongside and when I look back, there are individuals that have remained in my heart and my head, often for the sort of small acts which signified who they were as people and has been the memory sort of creation in me to help me learn from them. There are a couple of people that I would specifically draw out.

My early years in HR was spent in HR business, partnering in a number of law enforcement sectors and in one law enforcement organization. It was my first posting having returned back from maternity leave with a commute into London.

So it felt a finely balanced sort of work life that I was trying to achieve to be the best I could be as a mum and the best I could be at work. And I worked in quite a male dominated operational environment and it was making such a difference to UK citizens.

We had a management meeting that took place on a Monday at 4 o' clock and it was a real hard job for me to do the work life balance and it meant I sometimes missed those meetings that were so important because. Because it anchored and framed the activity that we were involved in without me saying anything about how difficult I was finding it. A leader.

Nick Fishwick made a change. He changed the time of the meeting, removing all the pressure from me, and he did it against a backdrop of some disquiet from others.

And he didn't make a grand gesture about it, but it was so powerful and he made me feel so valued and so included and I learned that those small acts mean so much. In one of my other roles, I was privileged to business partner Andrew Parker, who went on to lead MI5.

Andrew was a very values orientated religious man who lived his life, his work life included, with such integrity and strong values and the way that he dealt with people and business just exemplified all that I wanted to be. So watching him up close to the most difficult of jobs and having to make real, finely balanced risk based decisions was hugely influential.

And then more recently, I couldn't be on this conversation with you and not talk about Tamara Finkelstein. So I was utterly privileged to business partner Tamara in her role as Permanent Secretary for defra.

Tamara is one of the most inspiring people, inspiring because of the contribution that she makes to so many communities and her deep care for people and her commitment to fairness and inclusion.

Tamara would talk openly about her Jewish background and the life that her parents had experienced in concentration camps, and to talk about her commitment to. To community, to others. And she made every single moment count. And I asked her about how her parents had reconciled.

This hugely difficult doesn't even begin to describe experience and not be bitter. And she talked about how they had very deliberately decided that life was for living. Bitterness was not going to be part of it.

It was not going to be constructive and helpful. And their focus was on humanity and that's the way they lived. And I saw in Tamara how she had grown as a person and a leader.

And to see her in action, I learned from her every day. And so they're some of the people. Sometimes it's small things that make most difference.

But in all the people I'm drawn to, it's all about their values. It's not what they know, it's not who they know, it's not about position or rank. Are they decent people?

Do they have a set of values that I can align to.

And you had in your family and in your dad especially, and in the people that you're drawn to, great role models, Nicola, of people who knew and know what their values are that help you get clear on your values around humanity, around care and around community and integrity that you bring to your leadership. The other question that you know, I ask is, why are you here? Why do you do what you do?

And thinking about your passion and your purpose As I ask this question, I'm thinking there you were in the small community, village life in Wales, and how did you get from there to here to where you are now, obviously living your values, but how did you find your purpose?

I can look back now and prize and so appreciate that community that I grew up in.

But actually, when I got to my sort of early 20s, my family, including my dad, had instilled enough confidence in me to sort of want to strike out a bit. I moved to Reading. I got a job through the Civil Service Commission and they happened to post me to Reading.

It was a real crossroads moment because I was working in the Civil Service in South Wales, and when they became aware that I'd been offered this alternative role, they also offered to match that grade in the existing department I was in. And I had a moment of choice about whether to stay in Wales, in a place I loved, close to family, or to make the step and move away.

In my 20s, I found the Close community, a bit stifling. And that was the thing that I thought, I want to test whether I can succeed elsewhere.

And already there was a sort of burning desire and ambition in me to try new things. So I came to Reading and worked with Customs and Excise as then was.

And it was a hard first three months and every other day was a teary, emotional call back to mum and dad and my dad said to me, look, you've given it your best shot. After three months, come back to Wales, you've tried this, but we're here for you. And that was the moment I thought, no, I'm not. That would be easy.

I'm more than that. And that was the start of me finding my way in Reading, finding my tribe, finding my community.

And in the years that followed, meeting my husband and then children. The thing that's always there in me and my team would say this, and I don't know where it comes from, but there is a burning ambition.

And it's not an ambition that's about personal gain or progress, it's about a burning ambition to deliver the best contribution to the outcome in the organization. I'm in DEFRA.

I think HR needs to deliver and I'm hugely aligned to DEFRA's mission and purpose and I believe it should have the very best HR and people capability. And that's the thing that drives me and it is a relentless ambition.

And you know, I believe I'm a very open, transparent person and I'm super easy to read. And the thing that I say to my team that I am very self aware about is I have no off button.

So my desire to deliver the very best doesn't have moments of less care less or less ambition. It's always there.

And that's challenging for the team that I work with because if I can see something that needs improving or changing, I'll want to deal with that. And that can be quite relentless. But it's all about meeting the needs of the organization and the people within it.

Because I want to be a brilliant place to be where everyone can thrive.

I love that and I know that in you, Nicola.

And I think back to our very first conversation and feeling excited by your ambition and very much hoping that we would get to work together and that I would be able to partner with you and help you to be the best for DEFRA and to support you in that vision and the mission of defra. And it's lovely to hear you talking about that because I've experienced that in you.

You began our Conversation, talking about all the very many different roles that you want to show up in at your best. How do you do that? You're a wife, you're a mum, you're a daughter, you're an aunt, you're a sister, you're part of a community outside of work.

How do you be the best, not only in all of your roles, but what do you do that supports you being your confident best in your relentless pursuit to be the best?

Yeah, great question, Annie, and one that I often ask of myself because I think fair to say that the period I'm in has been the most challenging of my life. And I really feel that I'm one of the sandwich generation because I've got elder care and I've got care for my own family. I've got two children.

Will is 24, Holly is 12. I've got a big age gap between them 12 years. And therefore, you know, there's still a lot of sort of hands on care that Holly needs.

There are moments where it's hard to be all things to all people. And I will often say to people that the only way that I have learned to get through and be present is compartmentalizing.

I take a box off the shelf that may be caring for Mum and I will do the things that I need to do.

Last week I went down to Wells, taking two days off because I needed to put some care arrangements in place for Mum and support her through that and sort out some of the sort of admin. I can deal with that. Then I put it back in the box and I put the box on the shelf and then I take the next box down.

If I didn't do that sort of compartmentalizing, I think it would feel just all overwhelming and it means that I can order and segment and give full attention to the thing that I am most focused on.

And for me that helps me get through the things that I wish someone would Invent is the 36 hour day where I could do even more, but also to find some time for me because I need to replenish myself to be all the things that I want to be. The thing that I have found actually is swimming. I found my way to swim as a sort of lovely form of exercise. I swim three times a week.

Let's keep it in perspective. I'm not swimming at a level that I will be swimming the channel anytime soon. It is all proportionate, but you have to start somewhere.

In my own space, I have the time to think, the time to replenish. I go to Two different pools. I go to an open air lido and I also go to a sort of indoor pool.

And again, I come back to community because in both of those places there's a regular group of swimmers and it doesn't take long before you start chatting and sharing experiences, sharing perspectives. And so I always come back to that sense of we are not an island, we are part and we have a belonging to something bigger.

And so that's what sort of sustains me. And the other thing I get my energy from is people and my own family.

I look at my children with awe and I see this sort of baton passing and I just think, I hope I can be half as good as my dad. Pride in both my children that is immense and different pride for each of them. But I do want to say a little bit about Holly, if I may.

Well, our fantastic then is our birth son and we wanted more children and to have a bigger family and it didn't work for us. But we found adoption and went through a very long process and were finally matched with Holly.

We went into adoption not wanting a young baby because we'd had that experience of wanted a slightly older child. Actually, we were matched with Holly. She was eight months old at the time and she came to us at 14 months and had a really tough start in her life.

Had been removed at birth because of birth parents lifestyle issues. And I remember the first meeting with Ollie and I remember that sort of sense of connection and care and love.

But part of the process, you get to meet a consultant pediatrician who tries to give you some help and insight on the development prognosis of your child. And he was signaling there may be development delay. Didn't matter to James or I didn't matter because she was our daughter by that stage.

And I see the young woman that Holly is becoming and she has a zest for life. She is a diva in all respects. But to see her flying, my job has been to have her believe that she can be anything that she wants to be.

She's always known she's been adopted. She knows as she's got older the facets of her life story.

And my advice to Holly has been know who you are, know the power and the difference that you can make. And one of the elements of Holly's life is that her birth parents were street homeless.

And James and I were very clear that our job as her mum and dad is never to judge other people's lifestyle choices, to instill in her and others a sense that everyone matters and everyone counts And I believe that as a person and I believe it as a leader. And one of the ways that we wanted Holly to grow up is not to feel worried or any shame.

You know, when we're out and about and you come across people that I see it in London and you have hundreds of people walk past them and don't even glance, who knows the stories behind each of those individuals? But we've always wanted Holly to know that everyone matters.

We stop and we say hello and we try and interact with a homeless person so that she knows that her birth parents mattered and it's not a thing to be ashamed of.

And it was lovely when she was seven and we were decorating her room and she said, mummy, I don't want to throw these pillows away, I want to give them to the homeless people. So we went out into reading and she chose the two homeless people that she wanted to give her pillow to. And that was so important for Holly.

And actually she's progressed from there because it's no longer pillows, but she does lemonade stand sails and cake sales. And she raises money and that money is now going to charities that connected to her life story. And that to me is my job done.

Because I want Holly to believe and it's the same with Will. I want them to believe that they can lift people up, that by their actions, by their values, they can make a contribution to society.

And that's that sense of lifting people up. That's your job as a leader.

Thank you, Nicola, and thank you for lifting people up through our conversation. We didn't have a title at the beginning and I wonder if the title of our conversation is in fact Lifting People Up.

That as people, as leaders, we all have a job of lifting people up, that everyone matters, whoever they are, wherever they are. Thank you for sharing your story, but also Holly's story as a result of our conversation today.

Who is the person that you're going to have a conversation with and what will the conversation be about?

I want to have several conversations.

I think there's a conversation, a further conversation with my children because I want them to be future leaders and that that's not necessarily in a management sense, but I think leaders in life and leaders of the values that I think can make society better and stronger.

I think the other conversation is with my team and maybe I don't say enough to them how great they are and how difference making they are, how they should continue to be confident and courageous. I always say to my team, what's my job as a leader?

My job is to stand behind you when you are doing the most amazing things and when you receive your applause and recognition, I'll be behind you. But I will be in front of you.

In those moments where things don't quite go to plan and there's tough feedback and tough love, I will stand in front of you and shield you.

I want them to know that I will do that through actions, but I want them to know how much I believe in them and the difference they can make to lift other people up.

Thank you, Nicola. Thank you for a wonderful conversation.

Thank you for people who are listening, if they would like to get in touch with you, which I imagine some people would like to have a conversation with you about how you live, your values, your beliefs, your passion and purpose, but also perhaps to connect with you around the stories that you've shared as well, how best for them to do that. Is there a way for people to do that?

For sure.

And I'm always open to all and any conversations and I do quite a lot of work with people that have been in the care system or thinking about adoption or have adopted and so always happy to do that. Best way to contact me is through DEFRA. I'm nicola.betsworthdefra.gov.uk Brilliant.

And I'll put that in the show notes too. Thank you so much for our conversation today and for listeners, please do get in touch with Nicola via her email.

If you'd like to listen to other leaders in conversation with me, Annie Townen, do go to my website annietownen.com as well as a huge thank you again to you, Nicola. I'd like to thank Smogus Media for for the wonderful production and marketing and to Louisa Penny of Penny Writing for the marketing of the podcast.

To contact me, do email me on anniennytownend.com follow me on LinkedIn subscribe to my newsletter. I look forward to connecting with you and thank you for listening. Thank you, Nicole.