Check out more detailed show notes and behind the scenes photos on the episode webpage.

Episode notes:

Rockstar Napa Valley winemaker (and friend) Sally Johnson Blum and her musician marketer husband Max Blum built Stereograph Wines around one idea: two perspectives becoming one vision.

Listen as Michael and I sit down with them to taste four of their tiny production gorgeous wines — including an old-vine (1947) Chenin Blanc and a Cab Franc that gave Michael actual goosebumps. We uncover the real story behind the name, the unique labels, and their mission to make Napa Cab feel like an old friend again.

Follow Stereograph, Sally Johnson Blum and Max Blum on IG.

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And listeners might not know that the Napa Valley was widely planted with Chenin Blanc in the 70s. Didn't know that? No.

But I wasn't even born yet, so how would I know that?

That's pretty good.

Because I'm turning 56 weeks from today anyhow.

That's a big one.

Yeah. So you're gonna buy yourself a globe. A globe?

Michael, can I get a globe?

Sure.

So you might ask me how I know this.

How do you know this? Because you're much older than us.

Yes, I am much older. I am the Yoda of this group.

Wise. You are?

Yes.

Well, hello there. It's Nikki Lamberti coming to you from Sonoma County, California. And I am back in wine country and the countdown is on for harvest.

This is officially the earliest harvest season in 40 years in this area. Game on. And by this time next week, Michael and I will most likely have our Sangiovese picked and getting ready to go through fermentation.

And behind it shortly thereafter, we will have our Grenache for both and red wine.

If you're a regular listener, one of the things that you may notice that's a common theme, is that I love to highlight small, less lesser known wineries that I come across, whether it's because I know the people or have just experienced the wine. But I love uncovering these gems. And this week I am so excited to tell you about Stereograph Wines.

If you've been around for a while, the name Sally Johnson Blum may be familiar. Sally is a very well known rock star winemaker here in the Napa Valley.

And she and I met almost 15 years ago because she was the winemaker at Pride Mountain Vineyards where I've been working in the taste. She's been on multiple episodes of the podcast. In fact, one of the very first episodes, which I will always be grateful to her for.

In addition to being the winemaker at Tamber Bay Winery in Calistoga, as well as a winemaker for multiple different clients. I don't know how she does it. She and her husband Max recently launched Stereograph Wines.

Sally truly is among Napa Valley's most celebrated winemakers. And she's got almost 30 vintages under her belt. Multiple 100 point scores, if you're keeping track.

And she consults for boutique projects all across the Napa Valley and also Washington state. And she truly is a champion for small family owned wineries, both hers and the ones she works with. Max is an entrepreneur.

He was co founder of a very successful wine industry marketing firm, but he's also a musician. The dude can shred on the guitar. We've heard it, we've experienced it before.

So he brings this really interesting mashup of music, graphic design, artistry, antique collecting. The two of them together are just a powerhouse team and most importantly, just really good and really fun people.

So as a fellow partners in life and business team, it was really cool for Michael and I to sit down and learn a little bit about why they're doing what they're doing, why it's different, why you need to know about it, how their dynamic, coming from very different backgrounds is serving them in this business. So yesterday, Michael and I had the chance to sit down with Sally and Max, who are also good friends of ours.

And the four of us for the first time actually recorded together. We were lucky enough to taste four of their wines which we're going to highlight for you today in an awesome sip Spotlight, sips by light.

Some of my favorite moments that you'll hear are Michael's goosebump moment. Sally not taking no for an answer, my not so nice impression of a typical Gen X wine drinker, and most importantly, what the heck stereograph means.

Be sure to stick around till the end so I can tell you how you can get your hands on these gorgeous wines and and some awesome shipping specials. So here we go with Sally and Max from Stereograph.

Cheers.

Cheers. Happy almost birthday.

Thank you.

Cheers. Cheers, Katherine. Cheers. Welcome, you guys.

We've done this before in different combinations, but this is the first time that the four of us are literally sitting down to have a very serious conversation about wine.

Yes.

And happy almost birthday Tomorrow to you, Ms. Sally.

I was supposed to be serious.

I thought I was making fun.

It's both.

Okay. Just making sure.

Yeah.

You should not be serious because that's scary when you're serious. That's scary. Ok, gotcha. So we're here today to talk about Stereograph.

Yes.

And I feel like our listeners have been teased on this a little bit. When we recorded that night at our friend Dana's house, I think I called it what winemakers drink on a Saturday night.

And remember, that's where we had the potpourri smelly candle pumpkin chardonnay.

That's funny.

Yay franc.

And our 24 Napa cab.

Yeah. And we had a red blend called X2, so that's in this vintage as well.

And then an Oakville Cab, which we secured some new fruit for coming release that Sally can talk about. That's pretty special. We're happy about.

Awesome.

So, yeah, so it's. We're live and game on. And you guys are selling and being scored and have a mailing list.

We're also happy to say we are almost sold out of our first vintage.

Cheers to that.

Yeah. That is an accomplishment.

Are you jealous, Michael? Are you jealous? He's a little jealous, yeah.

Having just finished that first cycle, we learned a lot and we like this format for now.

Okay. So little test and adjust.

Yeah.

Being a owner, operator, your CEO. The boardroom. The boardroom is kind of small, right? Plans sometimes have to pivot, but for the most part, you guys are making all the decisions.

That's true.

No, it is. And insight for those who want to know. The boardroom is actually a storage room. You know, it's not a room that looks really fancy.

It's filled with wine boxes, samples, and 6 liter foam packaging supplies.

Our boardroom is the kitchen counter. That's behind you. That's where we have our board meeting. Yeah.

Yeah. Wine in, wine out, supplies in, supplies out. And at the moment, it's sort of nice.

Yeah. That's the reality of a small team business, which is why it's so fun that we're doing this. Because, you know, we're similar but different.

And mirroring how we're doing this. The difference is, obviously, Sally, you came from many, many years of tried and true, celebrated winemaking for other people.

So my first question is, what has been the most different for you, departing from being someone else's winemaker to doing your own thing?

That's a great question. I still am other people's winemakers, so I think about this a lot as I'm approaching my day and my week and my workload.

I think with Stereograph, it's been really fun to be more experimental than I would be with a client's wines. When someone is paying me to craft their wines, I'm going to make absolutely sure that I create the wine that they are looking for.

Whereas with Stereograph, Max and I really work together. And I think the wines reflect both of Us very well. We've chosen the varieties and the portfolio that really gets us excited.

And so, yeah, it's very exciting and creative in a way that my client winemaking is not, because, I guess the stakes are higher when I'm working for someone else.

Of course. Of course. Yeah.

When you talk about the creativity of your portfolio, I mean, just with the four wines that we have in front of us today, we're seeing this is not just Napa Cab. I think in our glass right now is, like, the most opposite of Napa Cab that we could say. So talk us through this first wine that we're tasting.

Didn't you say it was, like, your mom's birth year or something?

It is my mom's birth year.

Yeah. That's crazy.

Yeah. And that kind of resonated with me and brought this whole extra emotional level to making this wine.

I buy it from a really great friend who is my vineyard partner for some of my other consulting projects. And. And this is a vineyard that he owns. We were just driving down the road, and he pointed it out and said, oh, that's my Chenin.

There's no way anyone is getting any of these grapes.

That was a big, fat no.

It was a big, fat no.

What happened?

Well, I just.

Something happened.

Sally happened.

Sally happened.

I can be persuasive. I.

Yes, you can.

Kept telling him about my mom and how meaningful it would be and how special.

And in the meantime, we were working on other projects and building a strong trust and good relationship, and he actually called me up out of the blue one day. I was with my mom at that time. She was having her first infusion, and he didn't know about any of this.

And he said, I've been thinking it over, and I want you to have some of the Shannon. So it just felt really meant to be.

I don't think I knew that second half of the story about when you got the call, your mom, a fellow warrior, fighting. And the four of us, 48 hours ago, were all pouring wines for the V Foundation for Cancer Research, which was amazing.

So I love that about your mom, Max. Why white? She said Max wanted to make a White. Why did you get to decide that? And why?

Yeah, I mean, I think I leaned into my experience in marketing. Of course. My background is in the wine side of marketing.

I had an agency manufacturing company for 18 years that served more of the mass market grocery brands. But I learned a ton about consumer behavior and what people want.

And when I thought of hosting Napa Valley tastings and having a wine offering, it was really important to me that we had something for everyone. And I pictured in my head several opportunities where somebody would say, do you have anything white? And we would say, no.

And I thought that would be.

Oh, you mean like what happens to us right now?

Yeah, yeah.

And that would be, especially lately, called white wine is on the rise.

It's a missed opportunity. One of the core principles of Stereograph is to be a wine for everyone. That really is.

So using Sally's experience in winemaking and my experience in marketing, we have this sandbox moment where we can make whatever we want. And so one of the building blocks of that is approachability from a price standpoint.

We feel like the quality price ratio of our wines is exceptional. We are able to do that because of a lot of those owner operated costs are absorbed with sweat equity, to be totally honest.

So we don't have to block. We have to. Yeah.

Have to go out and hire a design agency. We don't have to pay for a winemaker.

Wait, what do you mean? These labels are gorgeous. Who's doing your labels, Max? What do you mean?

So the design is done in house by me. That's part of the team. Right. We get discounts on custom crush fees because of Sally making wine for the very client that owns the facility.

So this allows us to have those price points.

And answering your question about why white wine that folds right into that purpose is that we needed this line of wines to be approachable for anyone that might want to try them and have something for everyone.

I think we also have the classic creative personality flaw where we just always want to do something more, something new. Let's try this. What if we did that? Let's add another wine.

So for being high achievers and dreamers,.

I mean, yeah, we're a small brand, but we have seven different wines. So we just. We kind of love making wine and bring our enthusiasm to it.

We even have a, like, secret handshake wine that's off the book.

That's right, we do.

I thought you were gonna say you guys had a secret handshake and we were about to see it happen. No.

Okay.

You have to know the secret handshake to get this wine. Yeah. Okay, so for all of our Wines, we're around 475 total cases right now.

Something like that.

We have about 100 cases of Chenin.

And then we have a Napa Valley Cabernet, which is a blend of a selection of parcels that Sally regards as being perfect for that blend. And then we have our Oakville Cab, which is single vineyard this year. And then we have a blend called X2.

Okay, so those are the wines that are made up and the price points. We have the Fiano and The Semillon at $45. The Chenin is at 60.

Awesome.

The Napa cab is at 80.

Awesome.

The X2 Red Blend is at 100. And the Oakville cab is at 140.

Love that. The Napa cab is at eighty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just read a statistic that the average price of Napa Cab as of this year, average price 125.

I'm not surprised.

So you are well under that for a beautiful wine. Our listeners have grown to really enjoy Michael's wine tasting commentary.

Oh, yeah.

So, Michael, can you take us through the shut in? What are you getting and what do you think?

Thank you for putting me on the spot. Appreciate it. It's coming from a non classically taught wine taster.

And that's why people like what you say.

Because Sally and I, and even Max, we could nerd out with all the wine words, but they want to know what the football loving hospice nurse has to say about this wine.

It's great. It's. It's bright. Right. I feel like it has a nice flavor to it and it has the textures. For me, it has.

It's a little thicker, so it's not as thin as a Samyan Blanc or Chardonnay. It has more closer to like a vionier style viscosity, which. That's what I like. So it coats your mouth. Yeah. And it just surrounds it and has great.

Like I said, it has bright notes of. I would say almost like stone fruits. And I got like, almost like floral peaches.

Yeah.

I don't know, like flowers and peach.

Floral. Like the label. Like, I feel like this wine tastes like the label look.

This is inspiration to the design.

Good job, Michael.

And then. Yeah, it's delicious.

Yeah.

I don't know if that was more powerful because I had just put a piece of cheese in my mouth. Cream stir.

That's Great.

So I don't know if that kind.

Of some aged Gouda, which is kind of salty, nutty, like you, and then you had some of the Chenin. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think it's very delicious. I would, you know, really pair this with oysters.

And I know that so many wine drinkers are not familiar with not only Chenin Blanc, Sauvignon and Fiano, which is why I love your white portfolio. Because, hello, people. There's more than Chardonnay, there's more than Sauvignon Blanc, there's more than Sancerre.

Sorry, that's how they usually talk. Which, by the way, is Sauvignon Blanc. But it's like venture out, bring out.

And I love that you guys are bringing these in a very affordable way, especially because people are drinking more white for different reasons. Explore and look at the spectrum of white wines. And you've got all three of them, which is exciting. This is gorgeous.

Michael, you pretty much nailed the tasting notes on that wine. That's kind of.

So is that a peach? What is it?

Yeah, we've got.

I didn't even know. So this beautiful label.

Oh, look at you.

This beautiful label that I'm looking at right now. It has like flower.

Peach.

Flower peach and then cherry, right?

Yeah, cherry and yellow plum and.

Okay, yeah. So I was gonna say kind of storm fruit, like I always say so, but it's so broad. It's like just stone fruit. I taste.

I like stone fruit.

Stone fruit. Same way as the lady who says Sancerre.

Yes, yes.

So we've talked about the ceramic globe before. It's going to make another appearance.

Yes. Because, Sally, wasn't that a birthday present to yourself on your 50th?

Yes, it was.

So now that globe is having an anniversary tomorrow on your birthday. Yes.

Happy birthday to my globe.

That's right.

So remind us what the globe does for the mouthfeel or the overall production of the swine.

Yeah.

So one thing I've gotten to explore working in Washington state with my client, the Wahls Vineyards, is all kinds of alternative fermentation vessels. They use a lot of concrete up there.

They use different size cooperage everything from permanent wooden tanks to normal sized barrels and everything in between. And so I really love the effect that concrete has on white wines, on the texture and the mid palate.

And I wanted to buy myself a concrete egg, but I wasn't able to get an egg. So the person that I had reached out to had this ceramic globe. The difference is ceramic is like a fired clay like porcelain.

Whereas concrete is more porous, more mineral, more actual exchange between the wine and the material. So I said, oh, sure, it looks pretty cool. It'll be fun. I'll give it a try. I really love what it does with the chenin. It brings this gorgeous.

I think that's where the viscosity, that mouth coating texture comes from.

You think if this chenin was aged in stainless or neutral oak, it would not have that viscous, weighty mouthfeel?

Well, I do ferment some of it in neutral French. And between the two vessels. It's really, really cool.

You taste them side by side.

Yeah, they're very different.

Wow. Very cool.

We should do that sometime. Yes.

Totally.

Nerd.

Yes.

How big is your. How much much gallons going?

This one is the smallest size. It holds 66 gallons.

That's still. I mean, that's a barrel.

It's a barrel.

It's a barrel.

It's a barrel. It's a barrel worth. Okay.

I think it also allows the. Especially the top citrus notes to really come through.

Yeah.

They don't get knocked down like they might.

Wait. When you see the top notes. For people that don't know what you mean by that, what is the. The top reference?

Yeah, well, sorry, I come. I'm using fragrance terms. I was in a previous life.

I worked at a cosmetics company, and I had the chance to do some fume training, natural essential oil trainings.

And so when we talk about top notes, we're talking about the notes that come through at the top of your first sensation, the highest sort of frequency notes of smelling, if you will.

It's a good way to put it.

Be like rose petal, for example, or a jasmine. Really has a very high top note. Sandalwood is another example.

These are things that you would immediately recognize before your brain would even process. And so I think the ceramic allows some of those floral notes especially to be right on top. And they're very pretty for that reason.

I love that.

I love the way that you explained it about the higher frequency, because when we smell something that has so many different layers to it, there is kind of a hierarchy of those layers. So top note, very well described. Awesome. This is delicious. And I feel like people need to drink more chenin.

So I know you talked about the age of this vineyard and what makes it so special. It's the oldest chenin blanc vines in. Is it the Napa Valley?

Yes.

And the person that you knocked down to finally persist and get them, where is the vineyard? And tell us more about that so.

The vineyard is called Henry Ranch. It is just outside of the town of Angwon, and it is owned and managed by my friend Josh Anstey, who does just a phenomenal job.

When he acquired the property, his plan was to rip out the Chenin Blanc and plant cabernet. And the winemakers that were buying the fruit from the previous owner all started beating down his door saying, don't take it out. Don't take it out.

It's so rare. It's so special.

Chenin used to be really widely planted in Napa, but as cabernet became more and more popular and therefore profitable, a lot of the chenin has been removed. And so this is just a really amazing find.

Awesome. Well, shout out to Josh.

Yeah.

For being a wonderful grower and finally giving you access to this vineyard. Yeah.

Much more Chenin Blanc planted in South Africa, which is where I started drinking it during my different safari trips that I've done over the years.

And listeners might not know that the Napa Valley was widely planted with Chenin Blanc in the 70s.

I didn't know that.

Didn't know that. No.

But I wasn't even born yet, so how would I know that?

That's pretty good.

Because I'm turning 56 weeks from today anyhow.

That's a big one.

Yeah.

So the reason I know.

Are you gonna buy yourself a globe? A globe?

Michael, can I get a globe?

Sure.

So you might ask me how I know this.

How do you know this? Because you're much older than us.

Yes, I am much older. I am the Yoda of this group, wise.

You are?

Yes. Because I'm into wine label design. I decided to collect some old Napa Valley wine labels.

And so I went on ebay and bought large handfuls of them and put them into a little book.

And I immediately realized when I received a few hundred of them and we're sorting them out, that I was like, oh, my God, These are, like, 50% Chenin Blanc. It really blew me away. Yeah. Zinfandel. Chenin Blanc.

Zinfandel. I knew, But, Shannon, that's surprising.

Yeah. It was a lot of Chenin Blanc that was.

And I've mentioned clone that someone brought over from some homeland.

It did well. Climate wise. It did very well. And I think low production cost. And it was, of course, Napa Valley prices for tons back then were a lot lower.

And so these were table wines. These were restaurant table wines, and they were produced in mass.

It's really beautiful. I'm excited for people to try this. Staying in the white wine theme, because we know your passion for white wine. What do we got next?

So I was talking to another friend of mine who is a grower. My friend Patrick Riggs.

Does anybody else mind? Go right to. He's a grower, not a shower or. I'm the only. Am I the only. Oh, my God, Katie.

You know you're gonna say it, but you know that our listeners go there. And I'm sorry about your friend. I don't know which he is, but.

I'm low key laughing at that.

You can tell I was low key. You can tell I was just in New Jersey for three weeks. So I'm a little more crass than normal.

So I apologize.

Your jersey.

That's my jersey showing. Sorry.

Well, my friend Patrick, he's a great guy. I've known him for a really long time. He's actually our neighbor now. He moved just around the corner from us.

And he works for Mark Neal, who farms more regenerative, organic, and biodynamic acres in the Napa Valley than anyone else. He's really pushing that forward and has been committed to organic for a really long time. He has his own flock of sheep, which I go visit. I know.

I love them.

I've seen your Instagram of the she vineyard. Yeah.

And so Mark came up with this really cool trellising system. He has a vineyard right in the center of Rutherford. It's on the valley floor. It's kind of a rich site. Lots of deep soil, kind of clay, holds water.

It tends towards being kind of vigorous. A little more than he wanted for the Cabernet that he was growing there. And so what he did was planted white grapes below the Cabernet.

So this is like a double decker bunk bed situation. Yeah. Which is great. So it's a win, win, win, because the whites do better. They're shaded, so they're able to get that protection from the sun.

They ripen really slowly that way versus the full heat that they would get.

I need to see this.

You gotta come check it out.

Yeah.

And then the Cabernet is stressed, and so it makes a higher quality fruit. And then Mark also wins because he's growing too crops on the same acreage.

Yeah. I love the bunk bed reference.

Of course, child of the 80s, when you say it's like a bunk bed, my brain goes right to big, where he's like, I get the top, so.

The fiano gets the bottom, and then the cab gets the top.

That's so cool.

It's very cool.

Very clever. No one else is doing that.

He is proselytizing this, but people have been slow to pick it up. He's got it planted in a few different sites, including Martha's Vineyard, which this. You being a big wine nerd like me.

No, that's one of the most famous sites in the Napa Valley.

We're not talking about New England.

No. But Martha's Vineyard is still privately owned, and so for the first time in history, other winemakers are being given access to that fruit.

I was offered some last year, but I couldn't afford it.

Yeah, we definitely can't. Okay, let's stay consistent with Michael giving us first notes.

So Fiano is an ancient Italian grape.

Grape of my people.

Yes. A grape of the people. And it still is a grape of the people in Italy. It's widely planted.

Yeah.

It's a common table wine and a beloved varietal. And Sally can talk about the characteristics of making it and also what it produces in the bottle and the characteristics of it.

But it's super unique, and it's very rare in Napa Valley. In fact, every day I talk to somebody who's in the wine industry at a very deep level, and they say, Fiano. I've never heard of it.

So this is our chance to launch Fiano. But there's, like I said, there's very little. I think there might be four producers in all of Napa Valley that are making Fiano.

I love that so much. Give us a Fiano taste. Michael, what do we think?

I think it's great wine. To me, first thing, I thought, it's thinner.

Yeah. Totally different than.

It's lighter. It's much lighter. That might be also because it's younger vines. Right. And younger grapes. But it has a really great floral.

To me, this one has some floral notes to it, too, but.

But different flowers.

But different flowers. Yeah. This is more subtle. Not as much as the Channel Blanc, but you have a little bit of fruit. I would say probably like more.

I would say more like an apricot kind of. But just light. Very light.

Crisper.

More crisp. The acidity is different. The mouth feels different.

A lot of acid.

Yeah, Yeah, a lot of acid.

It's a high acid grape. Sometimes we get, like, a little beeswax.

Yes.

Honey. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. It's beautiful. And this label. What's on the label here?

So it's a gargoyle?

Yeah. Can we talk about this label, Max?

Yeah. So it's an ancient Italian wine, and I didn't want to do something that was Typical.

And stodgy looking, you know, like, oh, look at this antique looking label. And it really hearkens to this ancient grape. I wanted it to be irreverent and playful.

And so we have this somewhat almost silly gargoyle in a bold black and then the red tongue sticking out and the matching capsule in red. It also has a crown on. And in my mind that closed the gap on the lineage of the grape.

Dude, your brain. Like one day I just want to climb in there and spend an afternoon and I'll come out and be like, what?

I will look at the world in a tiny, totally different way.

Yeah. But I can't find my car keys.

Yes. Like King John Malkovich. Like, pop the cranium off.

There's downsides.

Cranium almost looks like the.

There's downsides to your.

I can't find my car keys and my socks don't match.

Creative.

Yeah.

So since we're talking about the label, we've talked a little bit about this, but I want to dive a little deeper in the name Stereograph.

Yeah.

So what the heck is Stereograph?

Yeah.

Thrift store and you had them at RV foundation tasting on Friday.

Yeah, yeah.

I actually got to hold this up to my face and look through it for the first time.

It's crazy.

Yeah, it's. So it's two photos that are side by side on a card.

And the way the photos are done is the best way to describe it is if you stand holding your iPhone and you lean slightly to the right and take a photo, and then you lean slightly to the left and take a photo. You get two different photos, but they are slightly different perspectives.

And when you merge those side by side on a printed board and put them in front of special lenses called a stereoscope, and you're looking through this at it, your eye, your brain is going to pick one. I've heard before that, you know, we have a dominant hand. We also have a dominant eye.

And so your dominant eye will pick one of these images and the other eye is forced to create a peripheral distortion because you can't really focus on something that's two images at once. And that peripheral distortion creates a 3D image.

You guys, it really is like, I did this and it really does look 3D.

Yet it's crazy, right?

They were popular up until the turn of the century, you know, and then.

They got replaced with our red, like child of the 80s viewfinder.

That's the same concept. So that's what a stereograph is. And so my dad was an antique dealer and he collected antique photography.

So he amassed a lot of these stereograph cards. And when I inherited the bulk of his photo collection, I really like those and I keep those.

And so when we came time to find a name for our brand, as you know, naming your brand is difficult.

Yes, we do.

Stereograph made a lot of sense. But the second part of it that we feel is really appropriate is that we sort of look at ourselves as a stereo image of each other.

Right and left brain, if you will.

Which one are you?

Let's take a guess. And that really seems to resonate when we tell our story.

So I think the two together really sums up a true brand, sort of outward looking name for what our brand is all about.

We have two phrases that sort of sum up our vision for us. And so one is two perspectives, one vision. So he's the visuals, the aesthetics. I'm the wine.

Between those two sides, we're creating something that has more depth than what either of us would create on our own.

Yep.

And then our other phrase that inspires us is authentic independent Napa Valley.

We want to really hearken back to the founding days of the Napa Valley people like Robert Mondavi and the visionaries who created these beautiful wines that really showcased what a special place Napa is. And we want to make wines that are authentic. To that.

Beautifully said. I was going to ask you about that catchphrase on your website where the leading word was authentic.

Because that's a powerful word, especially in today's world and today's wine world.

Yeah. Well, we feel that at least in our own universe, we really want to live up to that.

Yeah.

And what it means for us is that everything is our own decision. Everything is putting ourselves out there with vulnerability and showing our best work forward and hoping that people like it.

I think that's truly authentic.

Yeah.

Independent is exactly what it means. We're doing this on our own. We're sort of against the larger corporate establishment of wine.

You tell me that, brother. You tell me that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we both have had experience in our careers in that, and it exists. And that's great. But.

But we don't want to be that so much like A band on an independent label. Right. We're the club band of wine and then Napa Valley. We want to make Napa Valley wines.

And we care greatly about preserving that founding legacy of the Valley and not having it turn into something that gets too far away from that. We need small, family owned and independent projects. We need more of them.

Beautifully said. Not just beautifully said. Beautifully done. And then beautifully said about the doing.

Now, when you were giving that wonderful explanation of stereograph, Michael cheated and tasted this wine already. And I don't know if you saw it out of the side of your eye, but he literally put his hands across his chest like he was hugging himself.

And a little shiver. So what's going on over here, Big Mike?

As you know, I really love cab franc. And let me specify. I really love good cab franc. There's cab franc out there and it's, you know, like small swines.

Some people shouldn't make it, especially some years, because it's just a little less ripe and you start tasting all these other secondary notes in the fruit. Right in it. But of course, in typical Sally fashion, right, this is. It was just like a big warm hug. It's. It's luscious. And we didn't decant it.

We just. It's been open a little bit, but we didn't decant it. It's luscious. It's got grapefruit. It's. It's got acidity, it's got tannins.

It just hugs your whole mouth.

It does. It's still hugging my mouth even though I swallowed that sip probably at the start of your description 30 seconds ago. And the hug is still happening.

And then there's like little shimmying, like little shimmy choreography happening around the hug.

And I was like, wow. Like, I got the, you know, like the.

Good job.

Thank you.

Oh, they are listeners. Michael is fist pumping them right now. I love it.

So Sally knows that cab franc's kind of my spirit animal too, in a way. And when she said we were going to make it, I was doing cartwheels. And this fruit is.

Do you really. Do you. Can you do a cartwheel?

No, no.

Right handed and left handed. One handed.

No, no, that's.

He can't even touch his.

No, I'm.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like, where is this? What can't you touch?

Next.

I didn't quite hear my sweet. So when she said we were going to do this Cabernet franc. I was over the moon.

And it's from a great vineyard site, the Blackbird Vineyard in Oak Knoll. It's just fantastically farmed fruit. And with Sally's winemaking, it really is coming to life.

Oh, my God. It's delicious. And I can't wait for the rest of our friends who are starting to arrive for pizza night to taste all of your wines.

And some of them have. But this is gonna be so yummy when we start firing some pizzas. So that's delicious. All right.

I was gonna tell you about the label.

Yeah, tell me about the label.

Yeah, so on this one, I did.

A little bit of a statue of a horse or a stallion. Right.

So it is a toy, and that's about. I have the physical object. So I took a photo of it, and then I outlined it. So it's like a. A horse statue toy that's about 3, 000 years old.

It's bronze. It's very cool looking. And I just was looking at it one day and I thought, you know, this feels like cab franc.

I don't.

So I set about on that. I set about on that journey to do it.

Yeah.

And I thought it was like a turquoise. So it's like, just bronze because it's oxidized 3,000 years.

You guys, come here and bring a glass right now. Don't be shy. Get over here and bring a glass.

So we have our fellow wine friends that are starting to arrive, and we gotta put some of this wine in their glass so they can hear what it is that we're talking about. But Michael's reaction like that just sums it up right there. Huh?

You don't have to put this in, but I.

Well, now I will. I don't know what it is, but I will.

I feel like this is our best wine, this Cabernet Franc. I haven't yet experienced our Oakville Station Cab, because it hasn't been bottled yet. But if it's better than this, then.

I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna die touching my shins. You're gonna touch your shins?

Yeah.

It's really beautiful, you guys. Congratulations on it. And again, thank you for doing something that not everybody is doing.

Now.

Your final wine is something that everybody's doing, right? The king or queen of the Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. Why or how is this different? And why should people seek this out?

So when we started our brand, we had a lot of conversations. Together about what it was that we wanted to do. And one thing that we both kept circling back to was the price, the accessibility. The way Napa.

$50 Price, you mean? Yeah.

The way Napa has gotten out of control.

Yes.

So we wanted to come back down to earth. We wanted to produce a really tasty, really accessibly priced, friendly, delicious Napa Valley Cab. I love Napa. I think it's friendly, friendly.

Friendly to the pocket, friendly to the.

Mouth all around me in every way. The packaging is beautiful.

The packaging is very.

It's got to be both, right? It can't be just cheaper and not.

Well, I just mean, like. Like friendly, meaning approachable, meaning accessible to buy. But what about this wine? And I haven't sipped it yet.

When I taste, it would make me say, oh, this is like an old friend.

Yeah. So you and I, we both taste a lot of Napa Valley Cabs.

And I think it's so difficult.

It's a rough life, right?

So difficult.

Yeah. There is this idea out in the world that all Napa Valley Cabs tastes the same. And I would argue that is 100. Not true.

Michael's vigorously shaking. Yeah.

All the things. That's one of the things that doesn't taste the same because. So more area specific, even plot specific on the certain vineyard. Just why you do.

Like, these five rows are the best, you know, because they taste this. But I'm just saying, it's like Cab is just its own world.

I totally agree. I think it's a phenomenal wine. And I think that a lot of Napa Cab is made in a very serious style where there's a lot of tannin. There's a lot. Yeah.

She's doing air quotes when she says serious.

In case you're listening. Right. Like, we're trying to make a wine that's just really, really tasty.

And this one is very approachable. I tasted this one at first.

It's not like, really overbearing, big juicy, where you need just something else, you know, you're not getting that big smell.

You just made me think of when I was hosting a tasting recently, and the woman that was tasting, she was great with words. And she said sometimes Cabernet Sauvignon is work. Like, I have to be like, all right, roll my sleeves up. Here I go. I'm going to take a sip.

Like, this is not work.

Yeah, it's very like, it's another one. This is very luscious on the mouth. It's very smooth.

It still has tannins, but it doesn't have overpowering where my teeth have all dried up and I'm like, just like wanting a big glass of water. Yeah, it's delicious and it's very great fruit and you could taste it. And I love this. I don't know what to call it.

It's almost to me like, you know when you used to spin your little pencils?

Spin art? Yeah, like spin art.

It's kind of. And I know, I know Max, he's probably gonna get upset.

No, what I love is everybody has a different interpretation. And this is exactly what I was going for.

We've heard all kinds of things. Someone told me it looks like a murmuration of crows. I don't even know. That was a new word for me.

I have a seller team member, Susan, who was getting a PhD in math and she told me it looks like a function graphed in the three dimensional space.

Yes, that's totally where I went with it.

I think another thing that makes this particular Napa Valley Cabernet unique or the foot that we're trying to put forward with it, it's ready to drink. And that's one of those things you can buy a lot of Napa Valley Cabs that could be very high priced or maybe they are also approachable in price.

But if you try to drink them when they've been in the bottle for a year, they feel very tannic and they're just overwhelming and they're not ready to drink. And they might be fantastic in five years from now. Sally's winemaking style for the entire stereograph line is we want them ready to drink.

They're ready to have.

I mean, yeah, these are 24s, so well done on all of them. You have a wine release coming up in just a few weeks. Tell us more about that.

You mean the two that we just tasted that gave us shivers and chills and goosebumps and tears in our eyes and now people can get them.

Can I get up?

What perfect timing. That is. What?

What?

Yes, they're coming out soon. Go to stereograftwines.com you can get access to the wines.

And yeah, if you're interested in stereograph wines and want to acquire these, you can go to stereograftwines.com and sign up for the mailing list. You'll receive the invitation to acquire the wines and that'll be available on August 12th.

Awesome. If people are in wine country in the Napa Valley. And they want to do a tasting. How can that happen?

You can also book a tasting on our website. There's a link at the top. We do them by appointment only at Tamber Bay Winery in Calistoga, a beautiful working horse ranch facility.

And we'd love to host you and you can request a tasting there.

You guys, congratulations on launching a small and very successful, very quickly business as a husband and wife entrepreneurial team. Oh, he looked at her and he smooched her on the forehead when I said that. It's not for the faint of heart. Working with your partner.

We could do a whole nother episode on that. It's hard. And you guys are hustling in a good way. I say hustle with love. So do we. It's a good word.

And we're hashtag hustle daily.

Yeah, Every day. Every day.

Your statement, what was it like, two visions? One. What was it?

What did you say about two perspectives? One vision, ours.

We blow that out of the water, it's like 17 different perspectives.

Shut up, Michael. Shut up.

Just.

Michael.

Okay. Yeah, I know. Maybe we can learn a thing or two from. Yes.

I think our reality is very much the same.

Honestly.

Yes.

Wow.

That was such a great saying.

All right. All right, you guys, seriously, not only as your podcast host today, but as friends who have known you for almost 15 years now, congratulations.

This is so exciting. I'm so excited for people to check it out and put these beautiful wines in their mouths.

Go to their website. Buy the wine. It's delicious.

Cheers.

Thank you, guys. Cheers. Cheers.

Congratulations, and happy birthday tomorrow.

Happy birthday, Sally.

Have some pizza.

Pizza.

Oh, my goodness. If it sounded like we were having fun, it's because we were. And we tasted four different wines, and that was just the start of the night.

There were many more wines to be had, and I think one of the coolest moments later in the evening, we were firing pizzas in the pizza oven and had some more of our wine friends over. And per usual, there's always many different beautiful bottles of wine open because everybody's like, oh, I want you to try this.

Oh, this is my friends. Oh, I made this.

And I had a moment where Sally and I were standing in my kitchen, and I was drinking a glass of her cab Franc and she was drinking my Grenache. And I was like, look at us standing here drinking each other's wines.

And that's just a very cool thing that not a lot of people get to experience, but also very cool for me, because when I first MET Sally, almost 15 years ago, I wasn't making wine yet. I was new to all of this.

Coming here from Walt Disney World and hospitality background and you know, working on the hospitality side and just dreaming about making my own wine and in awe of Sally as she became essentially an inspiration, a motivator, a mentor for me. So to then be standing there with each other's wines in our glasses was a really cool moment and both were delicious.

We have to give a special shout out to producer Katherine, our good friend Katie, who was recording and sound mixing our audio as we were talking. And we're always grateful to her and her audio prowess as I call it.

We took some fun video clips, so make sure you check out both my Instagram ickylamberty as well as Stereograph wines. Find and follow them on Instagram and you can actually get a behind the scenes look at the four of us recording.

I will put all of the links in the show notes for this episode, which you can also see in more detail with photos and videos on sipwithnikki.com but like they said, go to Stereograph Wines and you can sign up to be a part of their mailing list and then receive an invitation when it's time to grab the gorgeous goosebump inducing Cab Franc and the very competitively priced and friendly delicious Cabernet Sauvignon.

One of the amazing offers that you'll see on their website is they offer free ground shipping on their wines and $40 off of FedEx overnight shipping, which is really the best in hot temperatures. Those codes will show up at your checkout so you don't need to do anything special.

Sally and Max have just been kind enough to bake that into their pricing. I'm so proud and inspired by Max and Sally and grateful that they took the time out of their busy lives.

You know we didn't talk about it, but they are parents of two teenagers as well and just getting ready to kick off Harvest. So Michael and I were thrilled that we had the chance to sit down with them.

Wa.

Don't.