This week, Matt continues his conversation with Lyndon Azcuna. They continue unpacking the deeper meaning of true wealth, beyond just income and liabilities. This episode dives into the often-overlooked “third box”: assets. Lyndon shares how a lack of awareness around this category can keep people stuck in financial struggle and limit their personal growth.

They explore how financial well-being is inseparable from a sense of purpose, healthy relationships, and a strong connection to God. Together, they challenge limiting mindsets and highlight the value of viewing wealth through a more holistic lens.

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

00:12 - The Importance of Awareness in Financial Health

13:19 - Stories of Redemption

18:25 - Where Hope Begins: The Journey of Restoration

29:20 - Seeking Help

Mentioned in this episode:

Find Financial Freedom with Matt!

Cornerstone Financial Services

Well, welcome back to the Live well podcast. I'm Matt Wilson, financial advisor, coach, and business owner at my practice here at Cornerstone Wealth Services in South Bend, Indiana.

And I'm so glad that you're here. And so we're going to continue our conversation with Lyndon from Life Plan, and we're going to talk through.

And I didn't do a very good job in the first episode with Linden here. Referring back to the core four, really just understanding when to say no and how to ask for or when you need to ask for help.

And, you know, we just had a nice, brief conversation about that where it's just, what is this really all about anyway? Yes, we're trying to help you live well. And there's a tremendous correlation between what it takes to be wealthy in life and healthy in life.

And there's a correlation between, you know, finances and things, or finances, things like that, but also in our relationships. And, you know, we were just talking about this, and we're just going to dive right in here to the second part. But I think that the.

As we talk through the first part of it, it's just very apparent to me. You've got. It's like the folks that are perpetually poor and they can't break the cycle.

Right.

I've heard it explained. I'm not sure if it was rich dad, poor dad. I got to give credence to who it's due.

But what I would say is that I've heard it explained this way, that the reason that you can't break the cycle is that you have two boxes in your ledger, so to speak. And that's you have your income box and you have your liabilities box.

And.

And the reason that people continue to live in that cycle is that they don't know that there's a third box. The third box is assets.

And so as it relates to finances, as relates to living a better life and being able to put money aside, because our greatest risk really is depending on somebody else to take care of us. And how do we navigate all this stuff if we only are concerned with income and liabilities? Income and liabilities.

And you raised a great point in our conversation. You said, you know, what we like to do is what we like to provide material goods. Prosperity.

Prosperity. To help people in poverty.

Yeah.

And research has already shown that doesn't work. A great book, When Helping Hurts, is a great book that we do poverty the wrong way in America.

We think we have to encourage them to have money or have the American dream. Well, the American dream Isn't that successful? There's a lot of brokenness, suicide addictions in our world.

Providing for their material need isn't the solution. Because in that book and in life.

What'S broken is not our financial ledger.

Yes, that's broken. But what's broken is what I love. What you shared, Matt, is that third ledger, our sense of purpose. In the book When Helping Hurts, there's this.

There's this situation of. It's an image of our relationships. There's four of them.

Our relationship with God, our relationship to ourselves, our relationship to others, and our relationship to the created world. What broke is our relationship with God.

When that broke, everything else broke.

And we can't go to the ledger number one and ledger number two for the solution.

We.

We have to go restore the ledger.

Number three, which is our relationship with.

God, our sense of purpose, our relationship with God restores our relationship to ourselves. It tells us who we really are and why we were created. And more importantly, is our broken relationship with others.

If it's not restored with God first, we don't know how to relate to others. And that's why sometimes we think the.

Solution is ledger one and ledger two.

When we need to restore our ledger three, which is our relationship with God, our purpose, and.

And mankind and others.

Yeah. And you're referring to the book When Helping Hurts.

Yes.

By Steve Corbett and Brian Ficker.

Yes. That's a good book.

Put that in the show. Notes for. For folks.

But I would say that, you know, as you were talking, as we were talking through that, it just became so apparent to me that all of this, you know, living well.

Yeah.

Living well through it all, it really just begins with an awareness.

Yeah.

And that's the third, I guess the third ledger.

Yeah.

That we were talking about. The first box that, you know, folks look at is.

Is income, and then they look at liabilities, but they're not aware that that third box exists, that the box of assets that might pay you an income. They're only concerned where's their next paycheck going to come from? And you've got to break that cycle.

So it does begin with just being aware that that box exists. So as we were talking, you know, you mentioned, you know, awareness with your condition.

Yeah.

Awareness with, you know, what truly satisfies awareness with your relationship with God, with your family, and then what? Awareness with what's working. So I think you have to start with awareness. And they both require some sacrifice.

You know, being able to feed that asset box requires sacrifice by way of. Hey, not Living beyond your means, making sure that you know where your money goes.

I mentioned in the first money minute with Matt that 70% of Americans don't have any idea what they're spending at all. And so they have no idea where their money's. They just hope it works out. Like, oh, this is great. You know, money in, money out.

But they don't think about that third box. They don't ever feed it. So. So anyway, I think that was just foundational.

And then we were talking through that before we got live here on the air, but. Or in the podcast. But I would say that, you know, we'll put the book in the, in the notes.

I think what you said is so crucial to being able to live well. And then I think that's really the, the whole idea behind your ministry. And so tell me about that and the birth of Life Plan.

Yeah, yeah. I've only been with Life Plan as executive director for 10 years, but Life Plan has been here for 40 years.

And the Christian community came together and said, let's respond to this. Let's set up a pregnancy care center. I don't know if your listeners know, but there were.

After Roe vs Wade, there were two responses to the abortion battle in our country. Right for Life, which changes the law of the land. This is a ministry to change the law of the land. They're scattered across the country.

And then also setting up pregnancy care centers where the hands and feet, where women can go to a place where they can receive counseling and support to keep the baby. So there's about 3,500 of them across the country. And before Lifeline, it was called Pregnancy Care center of Niles.

That's why Lifeline was established as a, a place where people could grow, go.

To have support to keep their babies.

Yeah.

So we were one of 3,000 of them across the country. We have grown since then, and that's why it was established. That's why Lifeline was established.

And I've kept the mission going, but I've expanded the mission of Lifeline since I've been here 10 years ago.

Yeah. So I guess. Tell me more about that. You know, I mean, obviously been around, but I think it's really gotten legs.

You know, we, we've got to know each other through, you know, banquet banquets and, and you have spoken at a couple of different churches that I that I've been at. But. But I would say that overall the awareness of Life Plan has really flourished under your leadership.

And, and I don't know, just, I guess talk me through that.

Yeah, yeah.

Very quickly I made sure that the mission was clear. So the mission statement, we used to be very long and I made it very short and very precise.

We exist to spread the gospel by helping people choose life and live a hope filled life. Essentially we're helping people choose life, save babies and point people to Jesus. Jesus is the hope of the world.

I always say if you only help people with their problem and not really connecting them to Jesus, you're like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's going down.

We need to give them the hope of Jesus Christ. Christ came to restore our relationship toward God the Father and he did that completely.

That's why it's called the Good News. And everything that Life Plan does now, now not only helping them choose life.

But we're going into schools, we offer abstinence program, we offer pregnancy tests, we offer STI testing and treatment. We're into schools, we're into the community. We do running events, we have golf outing.

All for the reason of getting the.

Opportunity to share Christ, which is the.

Hope of the world.

Yeah.

It's given by World Magazine, the World magazine. It's given to a ministry that doesn't take money from the government, is compassionate oriented and, and is also gospel oriented.

You know, I think that as you talk through your backstory and, and getting into Life Plan, I mean, obviously, yeah, there's people out there who might feel like either they need to move on, they need to start something. I guess how did you know it was time to. Or how did you know Life Plan was, I guess the, the right fit?

And then I guess walk me through that transition because it had to be hard moving away from Awana. I'm not sure the timeline there if it was okay.

About a year.

So yeah, I wanted to be in ministry. I was always, I felt called to ministry. So it was no problem. I just had to wait for God's leading.

Sure.

And I went to a Life Plan because it was.

I.

We Decided as if I do go back to Chicago because we were here, moved here from my in laws, go back to Chicago or find a ministry here. And at that time I was taking care of my mother in law because I loved her so much. In the middle of dementia, that's another story.

Anyway, one of the co worker at pregnancy Care center at that time goes to my church. She said that there's a job opening again. It was a 64% cut from what I was used to. But we survived because God provided during that time.

And I knew it was a calling because I wanted now with wiser understanding of ministry.

And it's not about myself because I was already broken and found my. What was enough was Christ.

I didn't know I didn't need glamour. I didn't need to prove myself anymore. I was wiser now because I saw how we was done the wrong way in leading others. And I said, I want to start.

And I said to the board when they invited me to join, I said, I want to run a ministry that I know for sure it isn't about my efforts or my ability, but because God is king and God rules here. And that was my prayer. My staff knows that I'm not here to prove anything. I'm here to run a ministry that is so gospel oriented.

The success of it is nothing but what God is doing. And that's been my prayer from the beginning. And.

Yeah.

See what the Lord does.

Yeah. And I think, you know, as you talk through your own story and, and just your own breakthrough, you kind of turn that into a tremendous platform.

Yes.

For, for other people's healing.

Yes.

And that's, that's really powerful.

And so, you know, when you look at life plan, you mentioned a little bit about it, but tell us about a, a father, a mother, somebody who's walked through the doors and found hope.

Oh my goodness. Lots and lots of stories. Okay, I can, I can go on. And, and I have some favorites. There was a lady that came in with her husband.

They already had four boys. Three boys. They had three boys already. And husband was in school. And she literally. You can find this in one of our videos. In ours.

She literally came to our campus looking for an abortion.

Okay.

She was a native of Madagascar. Okay. So she went online looking for. And literally when she. This is her story. When she looked at the site, she was looking for an abortion. Okay.

And what was written in our website was adoption. This is the whole story. Nothing. But she'll even say that. So she looked at that and she read Adoption. She was looking for abortion.

So she went to our campus, she met with a consultant, a Christian consultant from one of our churches.

And she was laying her story that she wanted an abortion and all that because she already had the four, three boys and her husband was working and she was just a student visa here with her husband. And she was taking, telling, laying her story. And the counselor said this, said this, God is big and said other things, but God is big.

And she heard that phrase, God is big. And she realized that in her situation, God is big enough to take care of my situation, even though I don't want the baby.

Well, she talked it over with her husband, husband got convicted, everything. They decided to keep the baby just from that one little word. She said this in her testimony. She saw that it was an abortion. She saw it in her eyes.

But it read adoption because we don't do abortion at Lifeline. Anyway, that's one of the stories. There's other stories.

There's a man who comes and does our lawn work for many years and he doesn't want to be known, he doesn't want to be paid. He has a landscaping ministry. He comes regularly to landscape our building.

One of our staff person went out and said, hey, we just want to thank you and we just want to appreciate. And he said, I want you to know the reason you're not paying me is because I want to do this. I just want to give back.

And he said, I want to introduce you to a guy he sent abroad. A guy. Come. This is my 18 year old son. I came to your organization 18 years ago and they can convince me to keep my son.

Wow.

And here he is and this is why I do it. Yeah.

You never know. You never know what that one word is or how you just have to be, I guess, ready for that.

Ready.

And again, you know, I think about the fact that whether it's. I mean, there's certainly some parallels here. You know, you've got when is it time to step away, when is it time to, you know, start something new?

Or when, when is it a good time to have this child? Maybe it's never a good time, it's just time.

And so understanding that, you know, having community around you and then you guys have tremendous resources.

Yes.

So what. I guess one question I would have.

Yeah.

For you and just understanding all the backstories and I think I know the answer now, but what would you say to somebody who is saying to themselves, who's listening, feels like the obstacle is too big.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

There Is no depth. There is no brokenness. There is no sin that God cannot forgive. Relationship that God cannot restore.

Yeah.

Valley that God cannot.

In fact, I have a phrase, grace lives in the Valley. I used to, I read that somewhere. When there's brokenness, Grace lives in the valley. In our brokenness, when we feel there's.

No hope, that's our God. Our God is a God of hope.

And the tagline at that time was you, your baby, your family, you, baby, family. Okay, that was the tagline. Just last year, we changed the tagline. And you know what the tagline is now for Life Plan? Where hope begins.

Yes.

Where hope begins. You go to our website. It says it there. Where hope begins.

Why? Because we believe and we want to introduce to people the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is God. He is the God of hope.

Whatever I can say to your listeners, marital issue, parenting issues, family issues, your own brokenness. You know how broken I was. God can restore it. That's what our God is. And we all are messy. We all have messy lives.

I, I One of my favorite phrases.

Life is messy, sin is messy. But God came to restore that. That's what Jesus Christ did.

So even in your financial situation, which is our context here, and it's broken, God can restore it. It's not about you. It's about trusting God. So our clients from our community come to us with their felt needs.

We help them with their felt needs, but we also introduce them to a deeper hope for all their lives.

So it applies everywhere. Where hope begins.

That's amazing. And I think that there's a little bit of a maybe disconnect in what hope you're talking about.

Oh, yes.

So there's a lot of folks that might say, what do you mean? You know, I hope it's all going to work out.

Yes.

Well, that's not really what you're talking about.

That's not what I'm talking about. The whole one. Thank you for that clarity, Matt. That's excellent. Yes. The hope is the good news. Okay.

Remember I said in that when, when helping hurts, we think our brokenness is our situation. But our brokenness, I want to say this to all your listeners, is our brokenness with God. Sin came into the world.

Sin came into the world, but God sent his son to restore it.

And that's where the beginning of all our hope must come from.

I hope you hear that.

That's where our Hope must begin.

What?

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the good news. Instead of God condemning us, sending us.

All to hell, he sent his son.

To offer forgiveness for all of us. From there, all your issues, not that they will change, but you will find deeper purpose what this podcast is all about.

You'll find deeper relationship, you'll find deeper impact, you'll deeper legacy of why you're living for why you're living.

All the things of the world will.

Go strangely dim when you realize the hope of Jesus Christ.

Yeah, I think I heard Scotty Scheffler yesterday. He's playing in the British Open. Did you hear about.

No, I didn't, but he's a Christian guy.

He was explaining. He was explaining to the. I guess it was in the press. He was like, I don't really know why I want to win this so bad. I just want to win it.

But I just don't know because you know it. The moment lasts for two or three minutes, and then it's. You move on. He's like, you know, if golf hurt my. My family, I would. I would be done.

I wouldn't play it anymore. And there's a lot of people who just can't understand where he's coming from.

You know, you mentioned things will get dim that otherwise seemed really bright before. So anyway, I think that that's a great distinction and making sure that people understand that you're trying to provide the awareness.

Yeah.

That a third box exists.

Yeah.

And if you just think in terms of, okay, here's my life, here's what I want to do, and what might take away from it, then I think that's. That's where you. You lose.

Yeah.

You know, you lose this. The sight of your greater purpose. And it's the same thing with. With finances. You know, if you don't understand that that third box exists of.

Of assets and being able to not live beyond your means, and if you're not aware that that's the way out.

Yeah.

Then I think it's. You're probably doomed.

Right. Let me. Let me. A quick illustration. Maybe this can help your listener. In leadership book, there's a. There's a principle of the first button. Okay.

If you get the wrong button, it's wrong all the rest of the way.

Yeah.

And I've never done that. We got to get that first button right so that everything will go right. The first button is understanding the love.

Of God for you and me.

Every.

Your listeners would know, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son whosoever believes in me and should not perish but have everlasting life. The point is this.

Get the first button unrighteous.

Then God will help you through all the other issues of our life.

The reason why our first button our relationships are broken is because that first button is an unrighteous and so you want to have a purpose for your finance.

See it from God's perspective.

You want your relationship.

See it from God's perspective.

You want to know yourself better.

See that you are loved by by God deeply.

That's great. How can people get involved? How can they support life Plan or maybe refer someone in need?

Yes.

This is not only for. I want to say this because sometimes Christian churches or Christian people think this is only for community. Life Plan is for everyone.

We have people from our churches coming.

To us and getting biblical counseling. Okay. Free biblical counseling by the way. Anyway, how can people get involved?

If you're interested, just info life plan.org info life plan.go life plan.org you can go on our website. You can email us that way and for you for volunteer work or you want to serve in any way. That would be a great way if you want to give to us.

We're a Christian based organization. We get donations from churches. Individual love for you any one of your listeners to you can go to our website under under give and just give.

We would we need support to run the ministry to make a greater impact for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you.

So I think that, I mean there's a lot of great content and yes, you're approaching it from a biblical world worldview. But again, I think you made a great point that look, you got to get that first button right. I guess.

How would you encourage men and women just to not suffer in silence and to reach out? Because that's one of my core four.

I mentioned that in the first couple of episodes here that look, the Core 4 is know how to give, know how to receive and and then obviously know when to say no. Have to say no to the right things and then you have to know when to ask for help.

Yes.

So I think that's probably the. The one that I struggle with the most in life. How would you encourage people to not suffer in silence?

Yes.

To ask for help. Yeah, very. I mean from a biblical perspective, God did not meant for us to be alone. That's why created partner in the context of marriage.

Marriage is a wonderful thing in regards to just general life.

Life is messy and we need help. We need the church. If you want a Christian, we need one another.

I know that in my leadership there's always other leaders that I went out to, to ask for their advice, whether.

That leader is a book or an individual.

But there's others that will gone before us in our faith that are wonderful. Personally, I look at the faith of past people, the Puritans, the people who live well and how they live.

And recently our John MacArthur just passed away in our Christian faith. He was a godly fervent man.

So we all need to look to somebody to help us and if that isn't an individual in, in whatever context, finance, ministry, parenting, marriage.

Right.

Because I have two, two therapists, one of my daughter there. And one thing that about therapists is they don't, they can't counsel their wives. You can't counsel.

You can't. You need somebody else's help. You need you. So we. That's all applicable. It's human nature. We, we were not meant to be alone.

Yeah.

And so I encourage your listeners to get financial help. That's what you're here for, Matt, in regards. And that's a great ministry that you're doing.

But in aspect, my wife and I counsel three couples right now, but we've been doing it for over a decade already. So people need help. I, I've noticed when people young couple, when they get their first kid or their second kid, they struggle.

Everything gets messy because their lives just. Yeah. So.

And we've found out that we've been counseling young couples now because they get off track and we just need people to help. So I love your, one of your fourth principle.

Get help. Yes, get help. It's okay because.

Yeah.

Just being able to, just being able to again have the awareness that you don't need to suffer alone. But as I mentioned earlier, know who to. Who to ask help from.

Yes.

You know, and I think you have confidentiality agreements.

Oh, absolutely.

And maybe some people have been hurt in local ministry where they might not have those kinds of agreements.

Yeah.

And they kind of. And I've seen that happen in the past where unfortunately, so unfortunately just people talk and then, you know, they just feel marked.

Yeah.

So I think you providing a way for people to in confidence.

Absolutely.

Go and say, hey, we need some help here.

Yeah.

And being able to connect them.

That's.

That's amazing.

That is actually one of the, I'll say this one of the. I, I work with many who are struggling with and marriages who are struggling. When you start saying you're broken, when you affirm that you're broken.

In fact, AA is one of the steps affirming that I can't do this. And if you want a biblical point of it, it's this phrase. It's a phrase, have mercy on me, Lord, help me. That's the beginning. Just.

And a lot of people are probably saying, boy, I just don't know. I just. I don't think that's possible. I don't. I've tried everything. I don't think it's possible. And I guess my encouragement would be.

And I'm sure yours is, too. Just. Just ask. Just ask and see what happens. What do you got to lose?

What do you got to lose? Exactly.

So.

And. And there are lots of stories, including the one I just shared. No matter how broken you are, there is hope. Yeah, there is hope.

God creates. Man screws it up. God redeems.

All throughout, I think we were talking creation, fall, redemption.

Yep.

Creation, fall, redemption.

God redeems, absolutely. So I think. Let's pause here, because I think what we want to do next is we want to talk through specific tools that can help people.

And that's going to be, I think, the next episode, just because, you know, we kind of went a little deep here. I think we can summarize this along with the first episode, and then we can kind of go into some of those tools.

But that's what we want to provide tools to be. Have a healthier and wealthier life, not just in your physical health, but in your financial health.

So everybody's different, and why shouldn't your financial plan be different, too?

So I just encourage you, if you want to take that next step and get some help, you know, contact Linden if you feel it's appropriate based on what we discussed, go to lifeplan.org and we'll have all the information in the show notes, but also reach out, go to mattwilsonfinancial.com be happy to give a financial assessment and just see how we can just help you live well. And that's what we try to aim to do for all of our clients and all the folks that we work with. So we love that opportunity.

And if you're interested in that, again, mattwilsonfinancial.com and reach out to me. There's. Okay, so we're gonna stop there, and then we'll pick it up with the tools. And this is great.

I just really appreciate you being real and also providing practical help for those people who just think it's. It just can't get better. So that's what we want to do and appreciate it. And that's it for this episode of the Live well podcast and hope to see you.

See you next time. Take care and Live well.