Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee talk with the Director of Church Planting for Converge Heartland, Steve Krier, to discuss the challenges of planting in rural areas and what life is like in the district.

0:23 Lee introduces podcast guest, Steve.

0:40 Steve discusses where he’s from and where he serves as a pastor.

1:01 Steve shares a “fun fact” about North Dakota.

1:12 Lee asks Steve his reason for planting a church in the Fargo area.

1:25 A lot of people in the Fargo area know about Jesus, but have no relationship with him, according to Steve. Drinking is also a big problem in the area, so Steve ministers to bring hope to people.

2:11 Danny asks if life in the city of Fargo is really what it’s like as depicted in the movie “Fargo.”

2:25 Steve quickly speaks about what the movie did and didn’t get correct about the Fargo area and how residents have embraced the press from the movie, even if it’s not accurate.

3:07 Steve informs Lee and Danny about the landscape and climate of North Dakota.

3:48 Lee asks Steve about starting Ignite Church in a movie theater and what it’s like starting a portable church.

4:10 Steve discusses how schools weren’t an option for use as a church plant, and how God answered his prayers by providing a movie theater to rent at a great price.

5:10 Steve talks about the challenges of using a movie theater for church services.

5:46 On the flip side, Steve talks about the benefits of having church in a movie theater.

6:08 Frigid winter temps are a challenge when planting a portable church in North Dakota.

7:11 Danny asks about Ignite Church’s storage situation for moving equipment back and forth.

7:20 Steve points out that every church planter has their own unique challenges, no matter the location.

7:59 Lee asks about Converge’s Heartland district.

8:14 Steve lays out how the Heartland district looks, geographically.

8:38 Lee wants to know what characteristics Steve is looking for in people who desire to plant a church in Converge Heartland.

8:57 Danny asks Steve to also talk about how someone from outside Converge Heartland can successfully plant within the district.

9:17 Steve speaks to the grit and resolve those who plant in Converge Heartland must have, due to slow growth, sparse population, and being viewed as an “outsider.”

11:34 Steve explains the independence residents in the Heartland district have and how it affects not only their views of outsiders, but also their approach to Jesus.

12:03 Lee is curious how Steve coaches church planters who want to come to the Heartland.

12:41 The importance of a church planter finding a local connection to a “person of peace,” in order to be successful.

14:04 Lee asks for the population of North Dakota and how it’s dispersed among Fargo.

14:18 Less than three quarters of a million people live in North Dakota.

15:03 One third of North Dakota’s population is in one city.

15:37 Lee asks what it’s like for church planters to plant in a very rural, unpopulated area. Should these church planters be bi-vocational?

15:58 Having a skill that is transferable to a trade is helpful for rural church planters.

16:23 Another fun fact about the size of Fargo!

16:58 Danny talks about how having a trade as a church planter can help with credibility and relationship building.

17:18 Becoming involved in a community is one of the best things a rural church planter can do.

18:16 Danny mentions the tension that can be felt with having a permanent church vs. a nontraditional meeting space.

18:47 Having a permanent place, now that Ignite Church has purchased the building they’ve been using for years, has brought credibility.

18:57 Steve talks about the importance of showing communities the church is going to stick around and has a stake in the community.

19:46 Lee asks Steve how listeners can pray for the Heartland area.

20:04 The people who live within Converge Heartland need hope because of long winters, drugs, and alcoholism.

21:00 Steve puts out the call to those who feel they might want to help with ministry in the Heartland, as resources and people are needed to reach people for Christ.

21:24 Steve shares his contact information.

21:48 Lee thanks Steve for being a podcast guest.

Lee Stephenson: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Unfiltered podcast. My name is Lee Stevenson and I have the joy and privilege of overseeing church planting for Converge. Along with my co-host here.

Danny Parmelee: I'm Danny Parmelee. And I oversee church planting for Converge MidAmerica.

Lee Stephenson: And it is so good to be with you all today. We've got a special guest on our podcast today. This is Steve Krier. So hey, Steve, welcome to the Unfiltered podcast.

Steve Krier: Hey, it's great to be here today. Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Stephenson: Now, Steve, where is home for you?

Steve Krier: Yeah, so I live just outside of Fargo, North Dakota. So I'm way up in the northland and I oversee church planting with Converge through the Heartland district. As well as I planted a church about 11 years ago, just where I live. So been here for a while.

Lee Stephenson: And if people are wondering, yes, people do live up in that part of the country.

Steve Krier: People do live here. Also fun fact - North Dakota is the least visited state in the union. So it is not a place where a lot of people come but they should come more often because it's great up here.

Lee Stephenson: It is nice and has its unique beauty to itself. So you planted Ignite Church.You said a little over 11 years ago. Why plant a church in the Fargo region of the country?

Steve Krier: Yeah, so that that's a great question. I'm originally from the area. And one of the things that was super... a big burden on my heart was it just constantly was nagging at me was the reality that a lot of people knew about Jesus, but they didn't know Jesus. They knew all the rules, but had none of the joy of the relationship. And so we had lots of friends who were religious unbelievers. And just an area that desperately needs hope. Fargo Moorhead area where I live is the third drunkest city in America. Its people drink hard and long here because of long winters and just not a lot of hope. And so we wanted to bring the hope of Jesus Christ to this area.

Danny Parmelee: And Steve, I'm sure that you get the jokes all the time. But in reality, so the movie Fargo is that really what it is like there? And how does that even inform I guess, church planting a bit, I guess.

Steve Krier: Yeah, so one of the things that, so we used to be mad about that. And we're like, no, it's not like that. And they talk about the geography in the movie is all messed up. But is it flat? Yes. Is it white all in the winter? Yes. Does the wind blow hard? Yes. And we've just started to kind of embrace. In fact, actually, our visitor center in Fargo has a wood chipper.

Lee Stephenson: Oh, my.

Steve Krier: So people can come take a picture next to the wood chipper. So we've started to just kind of just embrace the press that we have, even if it's not totally accurate.

Danny Parmelee: Because I'm sure as people are imagining your church plant, they're just thinking of the white scenery. And there's Steve's church plant right there in the middle. There's just one little square little building. So..

Steve Krier: Yeah. I mean, there's definitely more buildings than that. But we joke around and say that you can watch your dog run away for days. Because it's just so flat up here and just the geography. But also like, a couple years ago, it snowed in nine consecutive months. The first snow was in October, the last one was like May 3. And so... so yeah, it does stay snowy up here for a while. That was kind of unusual. But yeah, it is. It is kind of you come up here and if you come up in the winter, it's like yeah, it's all white. There's lots of snow. And we make it work.

Lee Stephenson: Very similar here in Florida.

Steve Krier: Very similar. Yeah, kind of Tallahassee more than where you're at. Yeah. But yeah, close.  Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: So, speaking of movies, Steve. You started Ignite Church, in a movie theater.

Steve Krier: I did.

Lee Stephenson: Talk a little bit about doing portable church. And I'm curious too - like doing portable church situations when you are in Fargo Moorhead in the wintertime.

Steve Krier: Mm hmm. Yeah. So yeah, we planted the church. The schools weren't really open to having us. We weren't... Every church is a church plant. But they hadn't had one for a while that wanted to meet in schools. And so the schools were actually really hesitant about bringing us in. And so we had to look for other options and went to the movie theaters. And there was a movie theater in town. It was a discount movie theater and and so my prayer was, "God, please make this deal so good I can only describe it as stupid." That was my prayer. And I went up to them and, and they said, "You know, we don't have a lot to offer you but, yeah, we’ll let you use our building. Um, how does $200 a Sunday sound?" And we're like, "Yeah, that's pretty awesome." And if you know about renting movie theaters, or just renting space as a church planter that is stupid great.

Lee Stephenson: Stupid cheap.

Steve Krier: Stupid cheap. And in about year six, they upped it to about $250. Because we started using their projector. Yeah. Well we started using their projectors. So they said, Yeah, you can use it.

Lee Stephenson: Well, you got inflation too.

Steve Krier: We do. Yeah. So... No it was. So they've been so good to us. It is challenging to do church planting in movie theaters, especially for children's ministries. It's dark. The movies floors are slanted. The posters outside... Like, we've had, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre posters in our nursery. And so we had to, like figure out how to cover those up and pray over the building a lot. Um, but yeah, it's been such a great spot for us. Because, you know, for the whole time we've met it publicly. That's what we've been doing. And so we say we've done church in the cheap seats. And it's been, it's been a really incredible space for people to feel comfortable, who don't normally go to church to come in and feel like, "Okay, I'm not going to get struck by lightning by walking in the building." It's actually direct quotes from people who've come in. So, um, yeah, it's been a really cool thing. You said, church planting portable church in the winter in Fargo area. Yeah, it is. It's intense. Um, the coldest we ever unloaded our trailer was 74 below wind chill.

Danny Parmelee: Wow.

Lee Stephenson: So there is no excuse for a planter to complain.

Steve Krier: That's right. Yeah. Back in my day. Yeah. We also walked uphill both ways to get there. Just kidding. There's no hills here. Um, so uh, yeah, we walked it, you know, like 74 below is just dangerously cold. It's a health concern. And so we had to like, schedule our teams to be like, hey, come in, come out. Don't linger on. But that was the day that we brought our equipment in. We set it out. And somebody went to like, adjust a boom mic stand to like, put it up for the worship team. And we snapped the stand in half, because it was so cold. And that's when we realized we need to let our equipment thaw out on the ground before we set it up, because it was destroying XLR cables and all of our sound equipment, it was really, really hard on it.

Danny Parmelee: Yeah, speaking of which, did you have to have any sort of heated storage during the winter? Or did you literally park it outside and just hope for the best?

Steve Krier: The latter is the true, Danny, we didn't have a heated space. And so yeah, we had to show up in the winter, we had to show up extra early, and it's darker. So we have to show up extra early to get the equipment out on, like, get into the building and lay it out on the floor. So it can start to warm up before we before we set everything up. But the other I mean, but every every church plant has their own unique weird things, right? And so you just, you learn to adapt, and you go with it. And you know, in Arizona, you're shaking scorpions out of your shoes. And you know, you just got to figure things out. But yeah, that was one of the unique challenges we had up here was just battling the cold. It's just really hard on equipment.

Lee Stephenson: Now you not only being a church planter in that part of the country, you help oversee church planting for Converge and what we kind of call the Heartland district. Why don't you describe to us what the Heartland district is.

Steve Krier: Yeah. So it is a group of states that start at the Canadian border all the way down to the great nation to Texas. So we have North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and then Danny and I share a little bit of the Kansas City metro. We both have church planters in Kansas City. So it's just this long strip right down the center of the country. That's the area that I oversee for church planting.

Lee Stephenson: What do you see as kind of the greatest need of church planters that have a desire to plant in that area of the country? What are you looking for? What kind of characteristics may differentiate them from somebody to say, that wants to plant on the East Coast or in a major city?

Danny Parmelee: And I'll jump in because it may piggyback it if you can also explain if transplanting works. In other words, if someone is, you know, from California or Washington or New Hampshire and go, "Hey, I want to plant in the Heartland." Does that work? Or what are the you know, possible challenges?

Lee Stephenson: Love it. Now thinking through, you know, the church planter that is going to jump into the Heartland district. Especially if they're an outsider, they're going to be greeted with a level of suspicion. "Why are you here?" How do you coach, a church planter that may be looking. Go, "Man, I feel like God has called me to reach this farming community in northwest Nebraska." Like how do you coach them on how...what to do when they first land in that community?

Danny Parmelee: Boots on the ground.

Steve Krier: Yeah, we talk a lot about finding that person of peace. You need to find a local connection. Even if it's...and often what happens is, it's someone who has been around there a lot, but isn't from there. So they're one of us, but not one of us. So when my parents moved to a rural part of the country, actually northern Minnesota is where I grew up. I lived there from when I was eight, and I'm still not from there. And so what happens is usually you find people who kind of moved to the area for whatever reason, and if you can find a connection, a person of peace, someone who has connections into the community. But they might actually not be from there. Although you might find them but the most of the time it comes from someone who is church planting friendly. And gets you and understands you. But also you go in on their reputation. You go in on their relationships. If you put a sign up out front, say, "Hey, we're a new church." Most people just be like, "Yeah, good." They're not too eager to just check out something that's not known in some way, shape or form. That makes sense? So that's when the first people like hey, we want to come in. First off, are you from the area? Are you even from the region? If not, finding that person of peace and even if you are sometimes just moving to a different part of the state or a different state next to you, finding that person of peace.

Lee Stephenson: Now thinking through like North Dakota. I think this would be helpful for people to kind of get a picture if they've never been to North Dakota. What is the overall population of North Dakota and then how much of that is in like Fargo?

Steve Krier: Yeah. So overall population of the state of North Dakota is around 700,000. The entire state. And so that...it's pretty spaced out. So you get graduating classes in schools of 15. Of five. Of 20. It's nuts. Yeah, I know. It's crazy, isn't it? I know homeschooling families that are bigger. So it's crazy that they have, you know, they have these pockets, but yeah. Fargo Moorhead...Moorhead, Minnesota is right on the edge there. Fargo is...the Fargo metro area is 250,000. Yeah. So if you figure that so 700,000...

Lee Stephenson: So a third of the state population is represented just in that one city metro area?

Steve Krier: Yes. And then an hour north you have Grand Forks, North Dakota, that has the University of North Dakota. So that has about 100,000. That area. So you look at, like where the population is, it's on the, the vast majority is on the eastern side of the state right along the Minnesota border. Actually is where most of it is. So yeah, so it's spaced out. But it also creates a really neat culture with it as well. So...

Lee Stephenson: What is the reality of a planter that comes and they're not going into a city center? You know, and I'm calling Fargo Moorhead, Grand Forks city centers.

Steve Krier: Yeah.

Danny Parmelee: Metropolises.

Lee Stephenson: For that purpose. Yes. They all are given the context of where you're at.

Steve Krier: Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: I mean, do you recommend them to be bi-vocational?

Steve Krier: Hmmm, um, not necessarily, but it definitely helps. Or at least if you have a skill that is transferable like a trade. So if you can go and you might not be a full time plumber, but you can help the local plumber. Or you can drive a combine. That's a tractor for harvesting.

Lee Stephenson: If you don't know what a combine is, don't plant in North Dakota.

Steve Krier: Right? It's right. So yeah, exactly. A fun fact, by the way too. Fargo is the largest city across the top of the US until you get to Portland and Seattle. So it is like you said a metropolis. It is a hub. Even though it's not a huge hub, it is a hub because of how spaced out everything is. And so yeah, I think you don't necessarily have to, but man, it really helps if you're handy. You know, to be able to help out, build relationships or, have some kind of business acumen that you can come in and start building relationships.

Danny Parmelee: And I guess if even besides just money that it helps to that whole credibility issue. As you were saying before, and if you're coming from some other context, it's like, "No, I'm out here in the fields, or I'm getting my hands dirty." You know, with the plumbing, like you said, it's probably a relationship builder, beyond just a means of extra cash.

Steve Krier: Yeah, I would even say it's more important than the money. You know, money will come. You know, those kinds of things. But yeah, to build relationships to understand that I'm here for more than just selling you a bill of goods. But I'm actually trying to get involved in the community. So maybe it's not a trade, but maybe you're into...you substitute teach. Or you coach. Or you know, those kinds of things. Things that's gonna get you into the fabric of the community, as well as what's really nice is we still have a Christian memory here. Although it's fading. We still have a Christian memory of communities that were that the pastors were community leaders. And so you do have a tremendous opportunity to get involved in your city because they're always looking for people. So rotary, city government, schools, hospitals, you know, farming communities. Any kind of thing that you can come alongside and help people. If you show that you're going to be here, because they just don't want you to come and leave. They want you to stay.

Danny Parmelee: So along with that follow up there seems to be just a little bit of a tension you had mentioned before about being in the theater. But also if you're new or an outsider, it might not go as well as stability. How does that factor into having a you know, permanent location? White church with you know, steps and a steeple type of thing? Yeah. What speak to that tension, a little bit of, of having that permanency or having a little bit of that traditional edge in comparison to the theater feel.

Steve Krier: Yeah, it definitely lends credibility to the area. We were actually able to buy the movie theater over COVID that we've been meeting in. So we for the first time we closed on it end of December. So we have less than a year into our building that we've always met in. But the amount of people that are coming now. Just because they walk by and see the space they're like, "Oh, I know you're staying," was the thing. We've been here a decade. So yeah, I think you know, having some kind of space that you're just not going to be fly by. It's met with you know, like, "Oh, so you're gonna start a church, but you don't meet in a church. And you don't have any space and you're renting your house? And I don't know if you're gonna stick around."

Lee Stephenson: Yeah ,we'll see how long you'll be here.

Steve Krier: Yeah, it's a lot of “wait and see.” And so if you can establish some kind of permanency. Or put down roots, stake your flag in the ground say, "We're here." Even if it's opening a coffee shop that the church meets in or something like that. So it can be dual function as well.

Lee Stephenson: Love it. Now to our listeners as we kind of wrap up the conversation here, Steve. Share your heart and maybe your prayer specifically for the Heartland. And how can we as listeners pray along with you when it comes to really the harvest of the Heartland?

Steve Krier: Yeah, it's an area that desperately needs hope. We pray that we can start...that every city can have a church that brings gospel transformation. The winters are long, you know, up this way. Down south, I mean, just even in the Kansas / Oklahoma area, meth is a huge problem in the Heartland, because it's easy to produce out here. Because there's lots of spaces that you can just go make it and nobody knows that you're even around. Um, meth usage, alcoholism, domestic violence. These are the things that happen when people don't have hope. They try to lean on other things. And when that "god" fails them, then they lash out. And so I think just bringing hope to the area. Rural America is becoming one of the fastest de-churched populations in America. And so you're seeing a lot of those kinds of things. We're under-resourced. And, so yeah, if you're feeling called or want to know more, by all means, we'd love to talk with you. And if you're in the area hearing this, man, I think that the need is great. And the opportunity is even greater.

Lee Stephenson: If somebody feels an inkling to look at planting in the Heartland, how do they best get ahold of you, Steve?

Steve Krier: Yeah, you know, you can email me Steve@ConvergeHeartland.org is probably the easiest and best way to do that. You can go to the Converge.org website, and look up the Heartland district. And that'll direct you right to us as well. So when you come on to the website, and you get the district map. You can click on the center of the country and we can get connected because we'd love to start a conversation.

Lee Stephenson: Love it. Well, Steve, thanks for being with us today. For all of our listeners, thanks for tuning in. This is the Unfiltered podcast. Until next time, keep it real.