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The Shifting Paid Time-Off Paradigm with Rob Whalen, Co-founder and CEO of PTO Exchange
Episode 2512th October 2022 • Fintech Confidential • DD3, Media
00:00:00 00:38:48

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Shownotes

Rob Whalen is the Co-Founder & CEO of PTO Exchange, which converts unused paid time off into tangible financial assets, travel, or gifts.

He shares his aha moment and insights on how to look at how you should be looking at PTO.

Three things in this episode that we dive into.

1️⃣ How PTO Policies may be holding Diversity and Inclusion back

2️⃣ Creative ways to use PTO when you can cash them out

3️⃣ The Mirage, known as Unlimited PTO

Watch the full episode on YouTube

Links:

PTO Exchange

Website: https://www.ptoexchange.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pto

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ptoexchange

Twitter: @ptoexchange

Crunchbase: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pto

Rob Whalen

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-whalen-1287077/

Time Stamps:

00:00 PTO Exchange | Rob Whalen, Co-founder and CEO

01:39 Intro

03:51 Lessons from a Serial Entrepreneur

06:31 From Idea to Reality

08:35 Redefining the Perspective of PTO

10:03 Creating Equality and Inclusion with PTO

12:54 How We Look at PTO has Changed

15:45 Creative uses of PTO Value

17:30 Are Americans Using More or Less PTO

20:58 Using Accrued PTO for Employee Retention

23:33 The Unlimited PTO Mirage

27:15 Unlimited means less time off

30:50 PTO the Great Equalizer

32:51 ESG and PTO

36:12 Advice on PTO

36:49 Closing Thoughts

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This is a Production of Diamond D3, Media

ABOUT:

PTO Exchange: The first platform that allows employees to self-direct the value of their unused paid time off (PTO) for other needs and causes.

Rob Whalen: the Co-founder and CEO of PTO Exchange, the first benefits platform that allows employees to self-direct the value of their unused paid time off (PTO) for other needs and causes. He is a serial entrepreneur that has over 25 years selling and developing software and hardware products, and a BA in accounting from Seattle University.

While building the company, Rob and his co-founder, Todd Lucas, found their mission was to enable flexibility into those benefits that employees earned but could not utilize. They also discovered that by enabling this capability and accountability, PTO Exchange created equity and inclusion for workers to be compensated for their accrued productivity creating a better benefit.

PTO Exchange officially launched in 2017 at the HR Tech Conference and quickly redefined the category in the HR space. The company was featured in top media outlets like Bloomberg and The Washington, was selected as a “Cool Vendor of the year” by Gartner in 2017 and awarded “Awesome New Technologies" at the Health and Benefits Leadership Conference in 2018.

Tedd Huff: President & Founder of Diamond D3, a professional services consulting firm focused on, global payments, and marketing. He is also a video podcast host and producer of Fintech Confidential and Head of Corporate Strategy at Corvia. 

Over the past 24 years, he has contributed to FinTech startups as an Advisory Board Member, Co-Founder, and Chief Experience Officer, providing strategic and tactical direction for Global Payments OpenEdge, Heartland Payments, Nuvei, and TSYS, among others, focusing on growth while delivering innovation, process improvements and user experience-driven value to simplify the complexity of payments.

Diamond D3, Media: A media creation, management, and production company delivering engaging content globally.

Transcripts

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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It's your time and you have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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earned it, you should own it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And I think that unlimited time doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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It's the only thing we have that is finite in a number of days.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Rob welcome to the show.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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So happy to have you on and to learn more about PTO exchange

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Thanks for having me.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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I'm really happy to be on your program.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Feel like I've been here before.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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oh my goodness.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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We've had a lot of fun getting this thing up and going, so I appreciate your

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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patience and, and, all the fun stuff.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Technology is great when it works.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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So, uh, we've got to work in, so that's good.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Good news.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Talk to you about PTO exchange and just myself, you know,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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I'm that typical American that over the years is loved a lot.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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And I mean, a lot of my, a lot of PTO on the table each year.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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And even in some cases I lost it because that was the company's policy.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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He was use it or lose it.

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This is really what has me

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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excited.

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How you're putting the power of unused PTO back into the hands of

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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the employees, which I think is really, really cool initiative.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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You've got going.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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No, it's, it's actually great.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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In fact, uh, that experience that you went through is exactly how the idea

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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was germinated, uh, from my dinner table where, um, a few of us left

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Cisco and got a big check, walking out the door from a crude pizza.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And we were thinking, why couldn't we use this for something different?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, um, and that was the light bulb moment.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and then we just started to work on it and we realized that, you know,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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this accrued paid time off, um, that is earned and their earned wages.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, it should be, uh, actually self-directed, you should have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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the ability to self directed for good services and experience.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And that was kind of the conversation at the table that we started to have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, and then we just looked at how big the problem was and.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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funny when you start, come up with an idea and then you start doing the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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research of, is there a real problem here?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And it starts to resonate with people like yourself that just went or went

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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through an experience just like mine.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, um, and so that's how the company kind of got started.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, at least the idea, anyhow.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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So Rob, you've been a serial

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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entrepreneur for, for well over 25 years.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Can you talk about how that timeline and experience Got you

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positioned to start PTO exchange.

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I know it started at a kitchen table, but there's gotta be a lot of things

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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in the background that just really sets you up for success with PTO exchange.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Well, so this is my it's my fourth

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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company, uh, that I've started and it's my third software company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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But, uh, usually what, at least in the prior experiences, um, I was coming

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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at it from, uh, I wasn't in the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So I, in all the companies that I've started, I was never a part of the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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industry until I started the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, uh, I have an accounting background.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So I always view, uh, everything in kind of this financial or

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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balance sheet type of, um, lens.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And so.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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When I start these things, I really just look at it from what accompanied by

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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this, uh, what's the value we're driving.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And after this, you know, dinner, we had, um, I started to just

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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roughly do the numbers in my head.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, just how much money I made and then how many people leave companies

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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and how much money is, is being lost and, or, um, not utilized.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And I kept waking up at night, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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I kept waking up at night thinking this is a really, really big.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and then we, and this is back in 2013 when we started the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So it was a long time ago.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and it took us about four or five years working on other jobs and kind of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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doing this in the evening, uh, kind of our side hustle and, um, and making it happen.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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But we went to the travel association back in 2013.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And started to talk to them about all of this time that was being

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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lost and the dollars behind it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And then they kicked off something called the project time off and really started

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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to do the analysis around the numbers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, uh, but the first numbers they received were ours that we, that I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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had done it, uh, at my kitchen table, um, running, you know, We're running

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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numbers on, you know, employees in the United States, how much time

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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they would accrue how much, uh, and it was an enormous amount of money

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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that was being accrued, but also being, um, lost, uh, by employees.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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So at what point, so at what point did,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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did you go from the idea to, to maybe, maybe we'll talk about an idea to assigned

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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client to an actual product, or maybe even it's it's idea, product client?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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I don't know.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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How, how did that turn out for you?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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It, it, it, things don't happen

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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overnight when you start a company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, everyone thinks that the company went from zero to a hundred miles

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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an hour in a year or two years.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, and in 90% of all companies, that is not the scenario.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, you know, we, we had the idea.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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We saw that there was a market, uh, and then we kind of ran up and get this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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There's a lot of regulations in this market.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Like there is a lot of regulatory, uh, with the department of labor,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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with deferred comp and things like this that we did not know about

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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when the idea was germinated.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, we learned about that about 18 months in.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and it was probably 12 months after we started the company itself.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And so you just, again, you learn so much along the way.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And I think that thing about starting companies, as far as an entrepreneur, all

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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you're doing is solving one problem after the other, when you're building a company

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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and that's really what we were doing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, you know, we got our first customer back in 2016.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, Because it was a new idea.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Nobody was like, you know, are you crazy?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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You can actually do this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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we're a little crazy.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, that's, that's pretty normal.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, but, but it wasn't until really the end of 2017 that we launched on

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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a kind of more commercial basis where we had, you know, three customers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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It had been vetted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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We were SOC two compliance, so we could deal with large enterprises.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and that's when we launched it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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The HR tech show in 2017.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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You mentioned all these hurdles,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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reg regulatory, financial, just understanding the business piece of it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Can you let's talk about with learning all of that, how you're

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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redefining the perspective and just redefining PTO in general.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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A lot of people say that just like

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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what you said, you're redefining it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And we are, um, I didn't think about that when we started the company, that's

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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obviously not how I was approaching it, but we did feel like there should

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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be ownership, um, by the employee.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, and I still believe that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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I think it's, uh, like I said, it's an earned wage.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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You should be able to self-direct it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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You should be able to utilize it, um, to, to your value as the employee.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, and I think that ownership or that, um, that ability

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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to self-direct flexibility.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, type of mode.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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I think that's kind of built into how people look at buying

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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things now, uh, from Amazon.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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I mean, we, we just get online and we buy things and you have this flexibility.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And I think what we're doing is taking paid time off and the value of that and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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giving employees the ability to, to have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Amazon is like experience, um, where you find, if there's something that finds

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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value that you find value, you should be able to use your PTO to, to do that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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You just hit on something, you know,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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your, your accounting background probably follows it falls into this a lot more than

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your traditional, you know, business or sales type driven or started company, or

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even a technology leader started company.

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You know, you talked about most employers and even yourself

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think of PTO is a differ cash compensation, but employees generally.

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Don't think about it that way until they decide to leave a company or have

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been terminated and then get the check.

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Like you were just talking about, talk about how, by changing this perspective

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at the employee, that you've, how is this changing the employee's

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perspective, how this is creating equity and inclusion for all the

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workers that, that may have felt left.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Well, when you think about.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Equality and inclusion, um, as just an, a, a company environment.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Really, what you're trying to do is make sure that people there, the individual,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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the individual, um, is supported through their life's transitions.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And what I mean by this Ted is that every there's there's five

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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generations in the workforce.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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It's crazy.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Five generations, every generation has different needs and every

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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generation is going through their own life cycle in the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And how do you, uh, as an employer support those, uh, employees,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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uh, through those different life transitions, meaning equality, right?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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How do you give, you know, Someone like the gen Z is the ability

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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to pay down their student loans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So we're gonna, we're going to help gen Z pay down their student loans, but then

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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you have the, the baby boomers who are going well, I don't have student loans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Why don't I w what's the benefit to me?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Well, that's not equality.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And what we believe is that you should be able to give let's just say it's

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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$500, $500 to your workforce, and they should be able to self-direct it

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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in a way that's beneficial to them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And that's really what we're doing for PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Whereas you could allow a week of PTO to be self-directed to pay down your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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student loan, or maybe for the baby boomer it's to put it in their 401k for them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, and that ability to self-direct and that ability to say, Hey, I want

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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a flexible benefit that supports me in my life's transitions.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, it really helps build that equality and inclusion.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Right.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So now the baby boomers feel like they're included just like the gen Zs.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And, and that's really what we're doing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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We're, we're giving employees the ability to, to, you know, again,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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self-direct meet them where they're at.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Over the last two and a half years,

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it's been very interesting to say the least, how have you seen the pandemic?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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The great resignation really impact the perception of PTO for,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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for all five of those groups.

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You can pick one or you can pick all of them.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

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Um, but I can imagine that the perception of PTO has completely changed.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Yeah, it has.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Um, I'll give you, uh, I'll give you a number of examples

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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just from our customers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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We, so we signed a large hospital.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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They came to us and said through the pandemic, our employees have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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not been able to take time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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We have $50 million above and beyond what we usually have accrued

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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on the books as a liability.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And we can not just wipe this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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You know, these people are gonna lose this money because.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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You know, we have this policy that they're going to be losing it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And so we're going to extend it this year, but we need to get them to use it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And so what they did is they launched in, it was mid-October I believe.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And they opened it up so people could cash out for Christmas,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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um, and get down to a limit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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And so they turned this on and boy, we moved millions of dollars to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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those employees to benefit them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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So.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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Uh, you know, a nurse that couldn't take time off because they're at

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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the bedside for the COVID patients was able to get value out of that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

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paid time off that was accrued.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And they said it, it made a huge difference for morale, um,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

within the organization that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They as an organization, weren't going to just wipe this off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They were going to give them another way to use that benefit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So that's one, you know, you think of one way we did it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, we actually allow people to share their PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That's cool.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So in case it's, um, like a Metro.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, pool where let's say you got sick with COVID, you took all your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

time off and now your child got sick and you needed more time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, during those times of COVID and during the pandemic, we had

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

large organizations coming to us saying, Hey, we want more.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We want to build more community and allow people to share their PTO one company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Came to us and said, you know, let's do this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We, we lit it up.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And I think it was two weeks.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We lit it up really quick for form.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And the CEO was able to give his PTO into that pool.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And he said, it made a huge difference to the workforce, knowing that the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

CEO was giving up his time, your most intimate thing, right time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That's the only thing you have is time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And he gave it to him and that helped a lot of the rank and file.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

These are a lot of creative ways

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

that people are using their PTO.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

If you had to pick one, just one, cause I know you got a whole bunch

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

of these, but if you had to pick just one as being that most creative

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

use of PTO, what would it be?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

The most creative use of, I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

mean, obviously we cash out, but that's not very creative.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, we worked with a very large company and they came to us and says we have 14%

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

of our workforce accessing their 401k.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So 401k leakage for emergency, uh, type of moments in their life.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It could be for a broken down car, could be for elder care.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And, and what they came to us and said, Hey, could we use PTO?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And we said, you bet we could build an emergency access.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So instead of accessing your 401k, their employees now come to us and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

they access a certain percentage of their PTO for that emergency instead of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

going to their 401k and accessing it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it has decreased, um, the, the leakage of their 401k and actually

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

it's created more financial wellness.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Throughout their organization, which is very interesting.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so I think that is when I think of an employer really looking to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

solve problems for their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And trying to support them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That was one area where, uh, you know, we didn't come up with it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They can't, they came to us and we said, Hey, we could do this for you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And we built it and delivered it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it's been a great story.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and not only are they using it now, we have a number of our clients, uh, that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

have turned on emergency cash out, uh, so that they reduce their 401k leakage.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I'm sitting here and I'm thinking,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

you know, if I needed to cash out to pay off a student loan, right.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I need to cash out because I need a little bit extra cash and I'm not

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

going to take it out of my 401k.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Are people looking at PTO more or less like Europeans, or have we

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

gone into like a hyperdrive designed to take less and less time off and

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

convert it into a cash alternative?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, first of all, I think America

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

is much different than Europeans and I don't think we'll ever be a European.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We're a very productive country and we're very driven country.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and I think people actually like work.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I think there's people that just like to work like.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, over this last year, I know that namely just came out with a

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

new, you know, an updated study of, you know, PTO taking time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it looks like people are taking less time now than they

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

were in 2018, uh, from their study.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, but I think it, I think it's roughly 15, you know, on it on average

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

15 days a year, people take off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, we're certainly not taking two months off like Europeans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, And I think that people are looking at how do we, um, how do we give our

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

employees the ability to disengage or to support them with their stress

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

to re you know, from mental health?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, I will, I will tell you that, um, the way we look at it is

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

you have PTO to reduce stress.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And that is really into disengage from your work, but stress is

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

different for you than it is for me.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it depends where we are in our transitions in life and our life cycle.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it goes to, if I'm a gen Z coming out of college and I have 40,000 and $20,000

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

in student loan debt, that debt is it reduces my stress more than taking a week.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I feel like those are things or being able to put it into my 401k so I can increase

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

my 401k if I'm the boomer to help.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, make sure I have enough money for when I retire that reduces my

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

stress more than taking that week off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and that's what we see.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We just say, we are meeting people in their life cycle, in their transitions

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

to help support their stress.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it comes in all, you know, comes in all sizes and shapes.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and that's what we're trying to do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Uh, and that's what we're seeing people do too.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We are seeing people.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Take, not all of it again, they're still taking, you know, 10, 12 days,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

but they're using three days and putting it into their HSA or 401k

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

or paying down their student loan.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And, um, you know, there's a lot of people today that don't have $400 in there.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I think it's funny.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They, they don't have $400 in their savings account, but yet

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

they have roughly $900 in their PTO account and they can't access.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so then what they'll do is they will do early way to access to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

porn emergency, and they get stuck in this loophole of, I don't have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

enough cashflow to make ends meet.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And we say, why can't you access your PTO to help you bridge through those moments?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Depending on the company and most

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

companies, at least that I've, I've been part of that have a PTO process.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

That is a set amount per per year.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Typically it isn't like on day one, they go, Hey Ted here's all two weeks or three

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

weeks worth of vacation on January one.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

You're accruing, you know, one or two days a month, and it's

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

kind of, kind of a cruise and kind of builds up to that point.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

So being able to access that in a similar fashion, I think would be a

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

really good way to retain some, some employees that may be, would be.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

More excited to jump over to a company that might give them instead of two weeks,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

give them three weeks worth of vacation, but it may be a use it or lose it, or

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

it may be, you know, I just, I just see that being able to, as I accrue it, be

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

able to leverage being a very popular thing, especially around retention.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Have you guys seen that?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We have, in fact, we did a survey.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

lighthouse research and it was nine out of 10 employees said that offering

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

a benefit like BTU exchange would make them stay with the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And I think it's because they do associate their time with wages

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

and PTO is an accrued, uh, you know, wage at the end of the day.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, you know, I always say.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You, when you, when you come into the company, you say, I'm going to, I want,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I want a hundred thousand dollars a year, Ted, and I want four weeks of PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, what you did there is you just said, Hey, I'm going to give you

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

11 months worth of productivity.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And you're going to pay me a hundred thousand dollars.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And if I work 11 months in one week, my, my, my, what we call productivity pay

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

rate, it goes down because I just gave you more productivity than when I negotiate.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And that's really what we see.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

We see that it's, it should always be part of your salary negotiating,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

but that's what you're doing when you negotiate your PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and you know, we see we've seen unlimited come into play.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And what, what unlimited is really doing is it's taking that away.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's taking that negotiating piece away and saying, no,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

you can't negotiate your PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's unlimited.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, nobody has unlimited time, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, okay.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

It's interesting, you bring that up

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

because that was like, one of the big things is we're talking about this.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I started to come into mind because I've worked for a number of companies

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

who have said they have PTO policies.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Now that started in Silicon valley and is spread to what seems to be everywhere.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And it's definitely impacting the marketplace.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Some people say for the good some say for the bad kind of give us like the,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

uh, devil's advocate, you know, little, little white angel on one side and little

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

red devil on the other kind of help us understand like the good and bad of it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

You started to talk about some of the bad, but

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Yeah.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

like what good stuff could come out of it

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, okay, well, the good stuff is,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

you know, you can do a job and take as much time off, but you really can't.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

What I feel is the fact that unlimited PTO, everyone knows it's unlimited.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It starts out with a lie.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's like a Mirage.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

There's water over there, but it doesn't really exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Come on in.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You can go drink from the Mirage over there, but when you get there, it's dry.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And, and what I say is a company that tracks the employees time and your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

time is your most intimate thing, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's the most intimate thing we have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's how we get paid.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

The fact that they are, they are not, they're not willing to track.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It means that they really don't care about.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

'cause they don't care about your time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

The minutes, here's the deal.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You're an expense to the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You are an expense.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You're the largest expense they have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You're also their largest asset.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Companies make money from revenue minus expenses equals profit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

If I don't have to expense your time or a crew your time,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

then I've just increased my.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

On the backs of not tracking your time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And once, once people get educated with, you know, on how financially this

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

works, I think they'll be surprised.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I think today's gen Z and millennials.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Uh, I don't think that they really understand how this operates.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so they're going home unlimited PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

But they don't get is doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, so I think starting out a relationship saying you have unlimited PTO is like,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I'm lying to you and you don't start a good relationship lying to someone.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, I'd rather know that, Hey, I have 15 days a year and that's what I get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And next year I'm going to get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And then when I leave, if I didn't use those, uh, you know, I get them paid out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I get, I get them around.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, because that's the, the agreement, um, with unlimited you don't eat.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Don't get that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I will tell you that unlimited PTO started in California and everyone knows this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it started from the unintended consequences of a good law.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And that is a law that was written down in, I think it came out in 1976,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

which is if you accrue your weight, if you accrue your PTO or you vest

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

your PTO, it's considered earned wages and needs to be paid out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And what companies like Netflix did is said, well, shit, if I don't, if I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

don't accrue it, then it's not earned.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And that's how they get around it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Thus, I don't have to pay it out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Thus, I don't have to pay it out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I don't have to track it and I can name it as unlimited, knowing that Ted, you

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

have so much work as an engineer to do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You're never going to be taking time off.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

So true.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

So true.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I mean, if you look at it and that actually brings me to another

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

question is like, are you, and all the research you're doing, are you seeing.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Those folks who are looking at on P unlimited PTO taking off more time or less

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

time than the folks that have it accrude.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, we're just, so we're

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

just doing a study right now.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So we'll, I think we'll come out with, we'll get all the answers back in

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

about four months, but we're doing a study around this, but namely did one

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

in 2018 and they realized that people that had unlimited, um, use less time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And at that time it was 13 days versus 15.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

If they accrued.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And like I said, they just updated a study and it says now unlimited people take

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

12 days and accrued people take 11 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

But here's the thing about that study.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I don't track unlimited, then how do I know what people took?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I don't, I have no clue.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So however they got that information.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Accrued PTO, you track it because you accrue the dollars.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so I know, but with unlimited it's, it's not tracked.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I can take as much as I want.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I can take as little as I want just leave.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So, so I'm not quite sure how the data is the same with unlimited PTO that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

you don't track and you don't know versus, you know, accrued PTO, which

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

is your crew and get on your balance sheet and you're accruing it within the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And you're expensing it through your profit and loss statement, but

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

they just came out with the update saying that unlimited uses 12 and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

accrued PTO people use 11 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

What they don't say is that those people that have accrued PTO, they get

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

the rest of their days, paid out when they leave and the unlimited Don't..

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So at the end of the day, the accrued PTO people make more

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

money than the unlimited people.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Oh my gosh.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

You know, I, and that's a unique perspective because most folks, like you

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

mentioned, don't think about it that way.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

It's just, they think about is that this is like, I've a restriction.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

This is like my mindset before doing the research to have

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

this conversation with you.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Um, even my mindset was, well, I'm not really.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

If I can, I'm told that I only, I only get three weeks and I used two,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

and I get paid out on One., that's not as good as being told that I have

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

unlimited time, because I may be able to figure out a way and mind you.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I might be able to figure out a way to get four weeks a year

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

by going the unlimited route,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Yeah, you might, you might, but I doubt it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

The keyword there's might.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I get that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I get that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

It's, that's the key word, but th th that's the perspective that I think

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

a lot of people take on that and they don't look at all the other different

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

things because how many times.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And there might be like a lever leverage difference within the organization

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

as well, where somebody who's an entry-level person with unlimited versus

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

an executive that has unlimited there.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

There's a disparity there between who's able to leverage that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

unlimited versus an accrue.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I think there's, there's a bit of a disparity that, that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

really starts to come into that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I've seen it on, on both sides of, of the, of the coin where it benefits

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

one person better than the other.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Agreed.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And that comment that you just made it better is one person more than the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That is going every it's going against everything about equality and inclusion.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so what you're saying is, Hey Ted, we have the same job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You're a little bit better.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So you're able to get that job done.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So you're able to get four weeks and yeah, I'm doing the same job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I can pay it the same, but you know, maybe I'm a little slower or maybe I'm

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

junior or, you know, I'm still new.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It takes me a little bit longer and maybe I'm just a little bit more

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

efficient or maybe I'm, you know, a little bit more detail oriented.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So it takes me longer.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I get three weeks.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Well, that's not fair that doesn't work.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That's not, that's not equality, that's not inclusion you're

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

just the haves and the have nots.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

There is no equality there.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

If you really want to drive inclusion and equality, you, you set up and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

communicate exactly what people get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You get 15 days, your first year, Ted, next year, you're going to get 20,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

like John over there, or like Lisa.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, it's very clear.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's very concise.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And guess what?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You know, you have 15 days and you can go take them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

You know that when you go to your manager, you're owed 15 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's not like the unlimited where you go, Hey, can I take a week off?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And your manager goes, well, you know, it's a, you got to get this work done.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, it's, it just, it takes away the miscommunication

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

because you're communicating it upfront and you're earning it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I can see that , you and I have touched

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

base on a couple of things and I interviewed, a gentleman by the name

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

of Chris Skinner and he's the author, um, for, uh, He's an author and just

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

released a book called digital for good.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And a lot of that is around a lot of the ESG and purpose driven businesses

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

focus, mostly on banking and FinTech.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I mean, this is FinTech confidential and the business round table

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

updated a statement of purpose for a corporation, 181 CEO's signed it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I would love for you to talk about.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

The type of company called.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I said, I do that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

as setup because the company culture that it talks about is the inclusive,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

it's all the, all the things that, that I believe that that PTO

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

exchange based upon our conversations is really head headed towards.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I like you to talk about the type of company culture that PTO exchange

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

does best with and how it strengthens the communities around those companies.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So the companies that we do

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

best with are the ones that really care for their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And we say that the company that, that accrues and expenses

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

you it's, it's a good thing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It shows that they care about you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They care about your time and they care about making sure that you're tracked.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Now on the other hand, somebody could say, well, I don't want to be tracked

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

because, you know, I, I think, you know, being tracked as a bad thing, well, okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I get that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Nobody wants to be micromanaged in their job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

But tracking the expense the company level is important.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's important.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

To know that you are, uh, an item on there on our list.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, I look at the ESG 181 round table, Jamie diamond type of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

stuff as, um, I liked that they recognize it first and foremost.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

I think a company is only as good as their balance sheet.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

and how they track things.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Cuz guess what, they only have one thing that they do and that is make money.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They are there to make money and to return for their shareholders.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They only have one fiduciary responsibility and that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

is to the shareholders.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

They do not have a fiduciary responsibility to their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

No such thing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Now, if there was such a thing that would be great, but it doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And it's not in any bylaws of any company that I'm aware of.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And so in accordance with that, they're going to act in that manner.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and by doing that, it is their fiduciary responsibility to lower

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

expenses and you are an expense.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

So it is that, is there a fiduciary responsibility to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

lower their employee expense so they can profit more off of you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, and that kind of runs counterintuitive to the ESG round

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

table and, and all their nice thoughts.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, anyhow, um, I think that PTO should be owned and earned and, you know, you should

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

have control over it, just like you do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Um, other things.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

We've covered so much today.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

If you had only one sentence to share with the audience to change

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

their business and our personal perspective on PTO, what would that be?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's your time and you have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

earned it, you should own it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And I think that unlimited time doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

It's the only thing we have that is finite in a number of days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And, uh, that's what I would leave just own your time.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

That is awesome.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I remember reading a book, um, and I wish I could remember the name of the author.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Um, but I will give him credit in, in the, in the description, everything,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

but it just reminded me that he says fourteen forty fourteen, forty fourteen

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

hundred and forty minutes in a day.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

That's all.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

That's all that will be there.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

There'll be no more, no less.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

There's 1,440 minutes every single day.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And to use them the best way you possibly can.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

That is so true.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

And, and, and you only have so many years and that's, you know, make

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

sure it's, uh, you're getting paid for, it makes your having attract

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

as a good thing and share it wisely.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Thank you so much for sharing all the

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

great things, the PTO exchange story, your story, how to look at things.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

This has definitely given me a different perspective on, on how to view PTO.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

And I think it's going to be for a lot of the folks watching and listening to this.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

I think.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

Them also take a different perspective and be able to leverage

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

:

their PTO in a much better way.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

Tedd, thanks for having me really

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

:

appreciate you taking the time, uh, you know, and meet with me.

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