“I never thought it was important, best to forget and left alone. The past is the past and who wants to read, hear, and know about war and its atrocities? I certainly did not and neither did anyone else who went through it. Then in my golden years, I realized the world needs to know and hear from real people who survived wars, not history books. First, that war is terrible, secondly that those who are free need to be more grateful and realize freedom comes with a price tag, and at great cost.” –Marie Vischer Elliott

Marie, who goes by Rita in the historical novel, Under the Java Moon, was at first reluctant to have her story told in novel form by Heather B. Moore. In August 2021, Heather met Marie for the first time, where they both vetted each other. Heather wondered if she’d be able to do justice to a story that Marie had kept to herself for so many decades. Marie wondered if she was truly ready to trust such private and difficult memories to a historical fiction format.

Marie told Heather that her family never spoke of the war after it ended. Her parents had wanted to fully move on. Because of all that she had endured, Marie never watched war movies or read books about wars. She especially stayed away from stories about concentration or prison camps and their victims and survivors. Like her parents, she kept her past firmly behind her. But in recent years, as Marie watched her grandchildren grow and have children of her own, she realized she needed to share her past. Even though she feared the pain that would return by recalling her memories, she wanted her grandchildren to know the price of freedom and to find gratitude in all walks of life.

You can learn more about her on her website www.hbmoore.com and follow her on Instagram @authorhbmoore

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A little about today's host-

Shawna Rodrigues left her award-winning career in the public sector in 2019 to consult and publish her first novel Beyond the Pear Blossoms. Her desire to connect and help others led to the launch of her podcast The Grit Show shortly thereafter. When she learned women host only 27% of podcasts, her skills and passion led to the founding of the Authentic Connections Network. She now helps mission-driven entrepreneurs better connect with their audiences by providing full-service podcast production and through a community for Entrepreneurs & Podcasters – EPAC. Podcasting is her primary focus, so she continues to support the writing community through this podcast, and her writing time is mostly focused on anthologies.

She offers a free 7 Steps to Perfect Your Podcast Title to anyone interested in launching a podcast. You can also follow her on Instagram-@ShawnaPodcasts, and learn more about the network and community at https://linktr.ee/37by27.

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We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.

Welcome to Author Express. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Shawna Rodrigues, one of your hosts and the founder of Authentic Connections Podcast Network, which makes this podcast possible. This podcast is where you discover the voice behind the pages of your next favorite book, and I'm excited about the author we have for you today.

Interviewing a World War II survivor and writing her story became a journey of its own as author Heather B. Moore interviewed World War II prisoner Marie Vischer Elliott, who spent the war years in Indonesia. In the book, Under the Java Moon, the impact of war in Indonesia and its island is brought to light through the true story of Marie and her family. As Heather researched the events in Indonesia after Japan invaded and imprisoned hundreds of thousands Dutch people, she only found self-published memoirs that offered insights into this little-known history. The Dutch people's experiences are forgotten part of history. And even after the war, when these traumatized and emaciated citizens were repatriated to Holland. They were told to pick up a broom and go back to work. No one wanted to hear their stories. No one wanted to talk about the war. Now, 78 years later, Marie has finally broken her silence about her painful past, and we have Heather with us today to share more about this book and her journey writing it. Welcome, Heather.

Thank you so much, Shawna. I really appreciate you having me on today.

Yes. I'm so excited about this book. It has a beautiful cover for anyone that is listening. That's, like, one of my favorite parts about it. It's a beautiful book. And the title, Under the Java Moon is also pretty fabulous. I think that that's unique and it, like, evokes a feeling with it, which just kind of connects you to wanting to know more about it. So, you did a beautiful job of both of those.

Well, thank you. I can't really take cover credit, but I did submit that title among a few other titles and that's the one that everyone agreed with that they liked the best. So, that was a bonus for me.

Yes. It resonates. It definitely resonates. So, as part of the experience in the Author Express, we want to get to know the writer behind the book. So, let's start with getting to know you a little bit. What is something interesting about where you are from?

So, I currently live in Utah, which is not super exciting, but I did grow up part of my childhood in the Middle East. And so, that was kind of, a little bit unique and I've spent 2nd grade in Israel, in Jerusalem and I spent part of high school in Cairo, Egypt.

Oh, that's very interesting. Do you have something interesting about Israel or Cairo that you can share with us?

Yeah. Sure. I just remember when we're going to, oh, and then I went to another stand in Jerusalem when I was a little bit older teenager and I just remember thinking, I just got my driver's license and you can't drive internationally until you're 18. So, I remember just, really which is so lame. I mean, I felt so put out by that. And you don't want to die.

I would. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the driving is pretty crazy, and so it's good that I didn't have my license because I probably would've wrecked the car a few times.

So, yeah, so it's a beneficial thing at the same time at 16. Like, that's like, what? I got this, and I can't use it? That's tragic. I definitely feel you on that one, but that's very exciting. That's definitely interesting to have grown up in those areas. What is one of your earliest memories?

Oh, I remember my mother made me a pink fairy dress for Halloween and we made a crown out of, like, just poster board, and I remember, we went on the back porch and spray painted it gold. And that to me, I feel like I was the most beautiful person in the world wearing that fairy dress.

That's amazing. Was there glitter on that crowd or is it gold was an,

I'm sure there was something on it because there's a picture of me way back in some old album somewhere, and every time I look at that, I feel like it was just one of my and I was probably 4, 4 years old.

Uh-huh.

One of my earliest childhood memories.

That is amazing. I love that. My mom did the homemade princess dress when I was a kid too, and I do, I love that picture too. That's, like, such an iconic thing. That is beautiful. I love that memory. This good stuff. I like that. So, what is one of your favorite vacations that you've ever taken?

Well, I've taken some really amazing ones. Last year, it was actually this exact same week that getting those Facebook pop up memories.

Uh-huh.

A couple author friends and I, we went to England. And I hadn't been, like, I had been in the airport before but this was, I think, my official first visit and we landed the same day as Queen Elizabeth the 2nd died and we were actually walking through Hyde Park when, like, all the message alerts came in.

Oh, wow.

And of course, at the time no one knew when her funeral procession would be because they were saying, oh, it's in a week. It's in 10 days. It's in 2 weeks. Eventually, we found out that her funeral was going to be the day we flew out. And the night before, when we checked into the hotel in London because we had kind of traveled around different places. We found out our flight had been canceled, like, completely canceled, like, no flights in or out that day because of security and airspace.

Oh, wow.

We were like, oh, what are we going to do? So, we had to, like, scramble to find a hotel in London because it's totally, everything's booked because they have all the security there. All these international dignitaries there. They'd booked the hotel. And so, couple of my friends well, the friends I was with, they said, oh, we can just, we'll just stay in the hotel and just watch the procession on TV. But I have a friend that lives near London, and she was like, I'll come pick you up and we'll drive over to Windsor and watch the procession. So, that's what we did. It was a totally unplanned event that just ended up being like this huge amazing, you know, like, chance in a lifetime to ever see that. So, we got to see the funeral procession as we're standing on the long walk leading up to the Windsor Castle.

Wow. What an experience. That's incredible. Just the timing of how that worked out. If they hadn't canceled the flights, you wouldn't have been there.

Right. I know. You had just flown out.

Just flown out. Just flown out. That's incredible. That's a great story and I love, I do love that about Facebook, the pictures coming up and reminding you of the things you've done and the places you've been. That's actually one of the coolest aspects of that to have those memories as reminders. That's wonderful. Oh, that's fun. I'm glad you shared that. So, moving on to telling a little more and learn a little more about your book and your writing career. So, I love the intro that you shared and that I got to share with everyone to learn about where the story came from and how you came to writing it. So, can you tell us a little bit more about the book and writing it and possibly, like, what was the hardest part about writing this book and getting the story to come together?

So, I've written a lot of historical fiction over the years and, of course, the main characters don't read my books because they're long gone. So, I think that was kind of the intimidating process here is my publisher actually had connected with the main character. Her name is Marie Elliott, but she goes by Rita in the book because that was her childhood nickname. Anyway, so they said that she had been really interested in having her story told, but in her mind, it should be a biography or memoir because it's true. And they said, well, we would like to have it be a historical novel so we can kind of add in and flush out things that maybe you didn't remember as a little girl or you didn't experience. Because she was only, like, around 5 to 6 when she first went into the internment camps of Indonesia. And so, they said she's very interested but she's also very hesitant and very nervous so I went to meet her. She actually lives in Oregon and I was living in Utah, but she came out for a wedding and she had some connections in Utah. So, I went and met her and she just, we sat in this living room of her friend's house for like 2 hours and she just told me everything that happened to her that she can remember and I remember just my mouth open, like, I had never heard anything about Indonesia during World War II before.

Yeah.

And I always say, yeah, I'm a huge World War II reader. I mean, I wouldn't say fan because who wants to be a fan of a war? But I have read, I'd say, dozens of books over the years set in all different arenas of the war. I had read books set in the Pacific Rim as well, but never about Indonesia. And I remember thinking, this story is so amazing, like, it’s very intimidating to write a World War II novel because there are so many and there's so many that are just very, very well done and the research has to be really accurate and really spot on. So, I felt like since I was literally working with a survivor of an internment camp, this would make it more unique and also because it was set in a place where I had never read and heard. But as this book has been coming out, it’s interesting where people say, well, my grandma or my grandpa and realizing these stories are part of their family history, but nobody talks about war when they go through that kind of trauma. And so, now I have some leaders that are, like, starting to try to dig through and contact their parents and say, is there a journal? Is there, are there letters? Is there anything I can find out more about my ancestry, as well? So, that's been really neat. But yeah. So, with Marie, that first meeting, it went really well, but she's still, so, that was August 2021, and she didn't sign the contract until January 2022. So, she still needed, like, processing time, and it wasn't necessarily, like, biography format versus historical format. It was also, okay. This is now real. And I actually met the writer that's going to write my book. Do I really want to open, you know, myself to this story? Because it's very, very difficult for her, and she actually didn't share with me how hard it was until just recently. Like, 2 weeks ago, I did a little video interview with her, and she just told me about how she cried the whole time she was reading that 1st draft I sent her.

I bet. Like, that's intense, and it's intense to relive that and see it in writing even though it's so important to share these stories. It's so important to share these stories. So, it’s incredible that she opened herself up to that and shared that. So, yeah. So, it's different than writing the other books to have that responsibility.

Right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. Did she offer a lot of notes and feedback about changes to things after reading the 1st draft?

So, kind of, how it went is, I actually decided to send her about 50 pages at a time just what I had drafted. So, I said there's holes, there's things that I haven't, you know, completely formed. There's some, like, notes in there and she's actually a grammarian and she do a lot of proofreading. She works part time still and she's, like, 86, 87. So, she's such a go-getter. So, it was mostly, like, she would keep, like, she would send back little things, but not like major changes. Not like, oh, I don't like this character you added. It was more like clarifying some things or saying, oh, wait. I told you this, but now I remember it was actually, you know, we actually ate this food or I was, you know, on my way to the market when I fell off my bike and at home, you know, just little things that probably wouldn't really matter in this big picture item. But I think with historical novels, having those details correct that can just really elevate the experience especially for the reader.

Oh, that's amazing. And what an amazing connection to have with the person that's experienced all of that. That's pretty incredible. Do you feel like, you're more drawn to doing that type of writing now because of that experience or are you going, but you see the value in the historical fiction when just based on research versus actually interviewing?

So, I have actually done a book similar to this experience before. About 3 years ago, I wrote a book set in the Cold War. And it was based on a man that was recruited to be a spy in East Berlin. And so, I had also interviewed him and written his story as a novel. So, now that I can say, okay, I've done this twice, and then in between, I've written other historical novels. They're just different processes. I think it's more intimidating and a little bit more nerve wracking to write with someone who's kind of, because you feel like they're looking over your shoulder, so, you do feel that pressure. But it's such a sense of accomplishment when it's all said and done and they're happy with it.

Mhmm.

And you feel like you kind of made a difference in their life and not just, oh, I'm writing another historical novel that I hope, you know, will sell out and I'll make some money and get some good reviews and just move on. Where this feels like I'm actually making an impact on someone's life in a very, very personal way, which as a writer I mean, as a novelist, I mean, there's all kinds of writers that do that every single day, but not necessarily novelists that's just creating stuff out of thin air, mostly.

Yes. No. That's incredible. So, what piece of advice do you have for someone who wants to be a writer and write novels and historical novels, maybe even more specifically. Do you have any advice for people who want to write?

Well, the wonderful thing is, I didn't start writing till I was 30, and it took me about 4 years to get my 1st book published and I had, it was actually my 4th book I had written that finally got published. And so, I feel like if it's your passion, then you will make time for in your life because that's the big thing we all, we have that burden of, you know, when and what time and things take so long. So, I would say if it's your passion and you're willing to persevere and also be patient, I feel like when I start a book, I'm like, it’s kind of like, I'm starting this book, I'm starting chapter 1, the first sentence, and this is going to be my life for, like, 3 to 4 months straight. You know, I try just to take things a day at a time. And for me, it really, really helps to set a word count goal. And, of course, I'm not writing around, you know, every single day because there's times you write and then times you have to edit and then, obviously, you know, family things come up or, you know, you just need a break. But I do set word count goals and for me that helps because it helps me, so, on average, it's 2,000 words a day, 5 days a week and so I kind of structure it. I mean, I am a full-time writer, so it's a little different than maybe some people might face. But it helps me, like, push through to get that goal if I'm having just one of those days where my brain's just everywhere else but the book, then it also helps me stop. Because if I'm having a really good writing day and I'm like, oh, I'll just keep going for another hour or so, like, no. It's time to stop and address the other things in your life so when you come back tomorrow to write, you don't have the burdens of things that you should've, you know, hopefully gotten done, but you didn't. But it's also kind of it can be a struggle though to keep that motivation going because a lot of my writer friends, especially ones that are full-time writers, they hit burnout because you are producing so much. You're writing 2 to 3 to 4 books a year, and so I try to take breaks in between books. You know, whether it's a vacation or just getting stuff done around the house I wanted to do. Or just even if I don't have things on my agenda, I'm just catching up just on life in general.

No. That's, and that's good advice side in there, too. To take those breaks, to have that balance. I like it. I like it. What is the best place for folks to be able to find you?

So, I am on Instagram. So, you can just look up author Heather Moore or Heather B. Moore, and I'm, of course, on the dark, dark space of Twitter still. My publisher is there so I feel like I got to, you know, post once in a while. And I also have a Facebook fan page just called fans of Heather B. Moore. It's very cheesy, but I, that's where I just dump everything, and then several of my books also have their own Facebook pages. And so, if you just wanted to learn about Under the Java Moon, you can look that up on Facebook and I post, you know, I post, like, articles that relate to it and interviews or just extra research sources.

Oh, that's awesome. I love that. That's kind of great. And what book or story inspires you the most?

So, this is a book that I read as a young mother and it was actually before I even thought I'd be a writer or anything. It's called, Kitchen Privileges by Mary Higgins Clark, who has been a very famous mystery writer. She's passed away right now. But she wrote a memoir and it's about her life as she was widowed with 4 children and she had a dream of becoming a writer. But she didn't have time to write because she was a widow and she had to work full-time. So, she wrote from 4 to 7 in the morning every day. And then she got that 1st book contract. And back then, you know, because things are so different now, but back then, getting a book contract meant by one of the top New York publishers and you get it in advance. So, it was, for her, it was a huge life changer just to get that 1st book contract. But I remember, I, at the time when I had first started writing, I was, like I said, I was 30 and I had 3 little kids and I ended up having another baby too is, I thought, well, if she can follow her dream and do that, then I can. Like, I mean, we could always come up for every excuse in the book for anything in our life, but I thought if this is really my dream, then I'm going to make it happen and that's, so, she was my example.

That is amazing. I love that, and I haven't heard of that book. So, that's a really fun bonus to get to learn about that. Thank you so much. Thank you for spending this time with us, Heather. I'm excited. Under the Java Moon is amazing, and I've just started it. But I'm excited to read it, and it's been a joy talking to you. Thank you for being here.

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks for joining us. I hope you take a second to give us a review or a couple of stars on your favorite podcasting platform, and we'll be here again next Wednesday. Follow us on Instagram at Author Express podcast to see who's coming up next. Don't forget. Keep it express, but keep it interesting.