The 2024 Educator Conference Panel discussed the importance of supportive administrators in building a distributive leadership system that invites leaders to decision-making. The panel, comprising diverse educators, shared their motivations for entering education, emphasizing personal connections, love for content, and a desire to help others. They highlighted the need for positive school culture, administrative support, and equitable opportunities for leadership. Metrics from a survey indicated that administrative support, conducive work environments, and positive culture are key retention factors. The panel also stressed the importance of recognizing and supporting teachers' growth and mental health to retain educators in the profession.

Action Items

• Lead an initiative through the Illinois P-20 network called "Keep Illinois Educators Engaged Professionally".
• Collaborate on creating "Mentally Healthy Schools" and discuss this further with interested panelists.

2024 Educator Conference Panel

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

distributive leadership, supportive administrators, educator shortage, sense of belonging, positive culture, administrative support, career changers, student success, leadership roles, teacher retention, school policies, student growth, mental health, professional development, educational challenges

SPEAKERS

Bill Curtin, Joi Patterson, Tim Dohrer, David Conrad, Jordan Romanowski, Amy Vujaklija, Comfort Agboola, Tim Duggan

And so what we really need to do, and what our research found is that supportive administrators are those that build a distributive leadership system that is intentional and that invites leaders to have a real seat at the table, real decision making and real opportunities impact student success.

Welcome to our podcast, teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr joy. I am Dr Amy vujaklija, Director of educator preparation, and I am

Dr Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators. So

join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it.

So on November 2, 2020, my colleagues Joi Patterson and Amy vujaklija, they launched their brand new podcast, teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr Joi. This was in the midst of covid. A few days later, they had their first guest on their second episode of the podcast, I was their first guest, and my have they come a long way since then. Today, 140 episodes later available on your favorite streaming platforms, they have interviewed a diverse lineup of national thought leaders and scholars, plus local educators and school leaders. Each episode challenges listeners to consider multiple perspectives and the tension between theory and practice. In fact, their original podcast logo, you have to look it up, because they've they've changed it since then. It depicted joy and Amy with boxing gloves, facing off against each other, staring each other down with menacing faces ready to battle over who would win, theory or practice. But as you can see from today's logo, Dr Amy and Dr Joi are seated at a round table with two chairs, just like you see today, smiling, enjoying a steaming cup of joe as they serenely ponder the educational issues of today. Please welcome Dr Joi and Dr Amy and today's podcast panel.

Thank you, Dr Conrad, welcome to teaching and leading podcast. We talked about this earlier, but for the past few years, we put a lot of focus on educator shortage and why educators leave. And actually I came up with three P's, and they were actually mentioned several times of why we discover educators leave. And we came up, there were 3p were pay, if anyone can relate to that pressure. And we talked about all kinds of pressure and politics or policies. And so we developed these initiatives to get around that, to attract educators and to get them licensed, and then we should create a culture where they don't want to believe like genius. Why don't we just do that? My daughter, she's been teaching for almost 14 years. I don't know how that's possible, but she has, and I always encourage her say, Don't you want to go to Chicago Public School, you know, increase your salary like $25,000 $30,000 she works in Indiana. She's an amazing teacher, and she always says, No, I love my team. I love my students. I love my team. I say, you love them. $30,000 more. And she said, yeah, absolutely. So that sense of belonging is extremely powerful. So if we don't take anything away from us today, please take away that we have within our ability to create a culture and we know this new generation. They don't stay in jobs very long.

Today, we have the opportunity to expand our conversation to the panel we have with us. So

So to get started, I want each of you to think about why you entered the field of education, if you could distill your reason into a few sentences. Why did you become an educator? Let's start with with comfort you have the microphone in your hand.

we have a very diverse panel of educators. Jordan Mirabelli Romanowski, Jordan is a school psychologist. Anybody know myrabelly shoes? That's Jordan. Someone else said yes, like, I got them on right now. That's Jordan's family. Hey, how about that Comfort Agboola, she is anybody a middle school teacher? Amy and I were crazy enough to be middle school teachers back in the day. Thank you comfort for being here. My friend Bill Curtin, we can't get enough of each other is policy educator advocate, and he'll talk to you more, especially about racism free school. There's a lot going on there. Tim Dohrer, someone in. Higher Education, and then we have Tim Duggan that Dr Amy kept saying we have to add Tim Duggan to our panel discussion. So thank you very much for being here.

So my journey into education kind of centers on my mom's career in education, she taught for 35 years in high school, and she taught special education in English, and just seeing the work that she put in and seeing the connection that she built with her students, I wanted to build that connection for my students. So one of the most profound things is having students come back and say the warmth that they felt in my classroom and how they felt that my classroom was a home for them, a place where they weren't going to be judged, where they could experiment with their ideas, where they were inspired by their peers, so just that overall connection and community that I really worked hard to build with my students, and it was me leaning in and allowing space for them to be their authentic self.

Would someone else like to share why you entered the profession?

I will just because I'm holding the microphone. I'm like many, especially secondary teachers, entered this profession because I loved my content area. So I was an English and journalism teacher, and I loved English and journalism and everything that came along with it. So for me, there was this huge attraction to continue to like, I, oh, I there's a job where I can do that all the time. That's great. So that was the first piece. And then the second piece was, you know, a love of helping others. I think that's another thing that I wanted to there's a reason why I turned away from journalism as a profession, because it tends to not be a profession that helps other people, and it's pretty cutthroat, and I didn't like that. And so education, I saw a place where I could really help others. And then the third piece that I don't think I realized till later was I had a really incredibly positive experience as a kid growing up through schools, and I think that laid the groundwork for what, where do I want to be for the rest of my career? I want to be in a school, because that's where I had a good experience. And I think that's something that I'm bringing forward and thinking about, how do we attract, you know, if we have good schools that are, you know, a good place to be as a young person that will attract people into the profession,

great. How about you? Bill and then Jordan,

I think I haven't done research on this, so if there's some a lot of researchers in the audience that somebody has correct me, but I think if you ask teachers in general, why did you get into the profession, something like 80% would have a story similar to that. I did well, in school. I liked school. It was a place I was comfortable. I wanted to continue it. That wasn't me. School came easily to me. I did well, but I didn't have to work at it, and I was mostly bored. I got in trouble a lot, mostly for reading novels under my desk instead of doing the classwork. And I'm like, bro, I got an A What is the problem, right? Let me enrich my learning. And so I was a scout. I'm an Eagle Scout. Scout's honor. I worked at a summer camp, and I got explicit leadership training from the scouts. And because of that, I returned on the staff. I really like that. I was teaching young people when I was a teenager, and I remember distinctly sitting in MS Smith's junior English class when I was 16 years old and going, I could do this better now. I went into education to make school better, to create a better system, because I thought that what we had wasn't good enough, and I think that's that's really driven me to become an educator and to stay an educator. Jordan,

I went into education because I have a passion just in my everyday life for learning about people's like strengths and their differences, and celebrating why each person is unique. And so in my role, I get to get to know a kid, and I evaluate them and figure out what is it that they are really, really good at, and then how can we use those skills to help them overcome any challenges or differences that they have? And so I find that I really get to fulfill that purpose in myself, in that role, and I want to continue to collaborate with parents and teachers and other stakeholders to make sure that we make that possible so each kid gets to be as successful as they can.

Let's end with.

They get into education. I really didn't have a good rationale. It was someone else who saw in me said, Have you ever thought about teaching because I was a senior undergrad and English department and getting ready to graduate go I was working in a restaurant, which, by the way, is a very good preparation because I was in the kitchen, and the intensity of, you know, going through all those tickets that are coming down the wire and when they're all done, and that relief is kind of this. It was similar. When you get to the end of the school year, it's like you've gotten through 180 day rush. You know, I was going to work in a restaurant and write novels and, you know, live, live life. And somebody said, you know, have you ever thought about teaching and working with kids? Because the summer before my senior year, I had a job as a crew leader for the Youth Conservation Corps for the US Forest Service, and I was working with high school students. Really enjoyed it, had a good time. So it was really someone else seeing in me that possibility, and enjoyed the

work very good. And I remember those days, how many career changers in the house that you were doing something else before? Yes, quite a few career changers. Both Dr Amy and I are career changers. Growing up, I didn't see teachers that looked like me, so I didn't even know that was a possibility, you know. But thank goodness for Diana and Carol and her television show. She was a nurse, and it was one of the first sitcoms that featured an African American woman. So I went into a STEM field, and then teaching discovered me as I was teaching my children. It was something that, you know, I just it caught fire, and it's something that I wanted to do. So how does your why? We know why you entered, but why did you stay? Because some of you have been in it for so long now, and you've seen so many changes. I'm really interested, because we're talking about educator retention. Why people stay? Why did you stay? So, Bill, you got the mic. We can start with you.

Well, I said I got into education to change education for the better. And it turns out there was a lot of stuff that needed changing, so I would find my way into a leadership role, and I would go, Okay, now I now I can tackle it right? And then I'd hit the ceiling of whatever that was, and I'd say, well, that's that that's still holding me back up there. I gotta go, go up and do that. And so now I work in state level policy, looking for systems change across the state, because while I could make more deep impact with students at that classroom level, I was seeking ways to have that broader impact. So the mission has never wavered, for me. It's always how can we make education something that serves all students, serves all students appropriately, meets their individual needs, and we still have a long way to go, so I'm probably going to be here for a while. Great.

He just gave the mic to you comfort. That's the way you do it. Educators, we know how to assign work, don't

we, so staying right now is really focused on kind of that. Why that I started with of I really want to impact my students. I really want to see them grow, and now getting to witness that growth. So being a witness to their success, being a witness to them rise to challenges, being a witness to them rising to expectations that are set very high for them. I get the opportunity to teach students that are in my neighborhood. So I live in the community that I teach in, I see students that look like me, that have similar backgrounds to me, and seeing them thrive in the classroom, and also see them have similar challenges of that I had of being bored in the classroom and then finding the solutions. Education, to me, is still a place where, yes, there are problems, but there are solutions, and those solutions are based in the human capital, not just the financial and everything else, but it's our collective energy, the way that we can synergize together and thinking about my what, my why, and also my who that I'm working with. So my colleagues are real energizing spirit for me, seeing the work that they put in at their various roles, and seeing the benefit that my students receive every single day

Jordan. So

I have this unique position where I get to reevaluate kids after three years. I also have this role where I get to deliver therapy and consultative services to students with. With IEPs and 504 plans. And I'm getting to the point in my career where I'm starting to review my own reports from three years ago and seeing how different these kiddos have become. They have grown so much more into themselves. And it's really rewarding. I'm starting to see kind of like the fruits of their their work. As I grow into this role, more, I have realized that it is so important that every single stakeholder feel part of the decision making process and feel empowered in the decision making process when it comes to supporting these kiddos, because when it comes to parents, teachers, administration, paraprofessionals, everybody is so integral to how these kiddos grow and develop over time. And I am making it a goal for myself to try to empower everybody that I consult with and work with, because I think that in the end, these kiddos are going to carry all of the things that the stakeholders have given them with them into their lives and advocate for themselves and become advocates for themselves. So that's why I'm saying and

comfort. And Jordan talked about kids at an elementary, middle school level, and some of us went into higher education because we thought the challenge would be different. And we get into higher education, we find that we still have the same challenges with student retention and student learning and all of those things. So we still have these same barriers that we have to work through in higher education? Tim,

yeah, for sure. And I, you know, for me, that transition from content to realizing that the reason why I was there was for the students. And for me, the students, it doesn't matter what age they are, it's my role. It's that identity as a teacher. And that was true. I remember my good buddy Tom would say to me, you know, when I became an administrator, you know, your classroom has just changed. Your students are a little different. They're your faculty, they're your staff, they're the custodians, they're everyone who works at the school. They're your parents and family members. And as I went into higher education, absolutely, whether it was undergrad or graduate students, and then many of my graduates, my graduate students ended up were teachers. So, you know, I think that idea of I'm here to serve a role in their learning, and what can I do to support that is, I mean, that's the reason why I keep doing, you know, it's 33 years now I keep doing what I'm doing is helping people unlock who they are, unlock their potential, do whatever work they want to do, and make sure I get out of the way so they can do it. But I'm there to support so that's what

keeps me up, Tim number two, or maybe it's Tim number one. Why are you still into the profession? I'm

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I was a cautionary tale. Honestly. I left my first teaching position after three years. You know, I started when I was 23 by the time I was 26 I was starting to have health issues because I was burning out. I was stressed. I was five in the morning until midnight. I was single at the time, didn't have any family responsibilities. I was far away from my family, four states over, and in a town where, when I moved there, I didn't know a soul, in a sense, became a victim of my success, because I was doing well. I was I felt like I was teaching. Well, the school was happy with me, so why don't you you could do this too? And I was like, yeah, absolutely, I'll do that. When you could do this too, sure. I'll do that. And the next thing you know, you're doing all these things and your classroom and that. And you know, for the young teachers, learn how to say no, and if you have, if it's awkward for you find someone that you trust, who's more senior faculty to advocate, to say, No, you can't take on on more than that, because there's needs to be balance. And I think what happened with me was I realized after a while that there's a difference between leaving a position and leaving a profession, because the teaching was still something that I really thrived on, and felt that it was something that I could do, and so I just found a different situation. And I look back now, and I've had a very bizarre and crazy career path, but I've never had a job I didn't enjoy some alum, I feel it's very, very fortunate.

Can I just real quick? This is such a great story, and one of the things that I've seen in the research we've been doing the last year is the critical importance of how we differentiate support for teachers and administrators, and that means thinking. About we should have a different experience for first, second and third year teachers and first, second and third year administrators to give them the support they need so they stay. Because if we do what you had happened to you, and we don't like saying no, I don't like saying no to anybody you know, you know, Mr. Door, can we start a club? Sure, I'll be your sponsor. You know the things we take on in the first couple of years, and there used to be a point where we used to say, Hey, if you want to get hired in a school, you better say yes to anything they throw at you. Will you be the yearbook sponsor? Yes. Will you be the track coach? Yes. Will you sponsor the play? Yes. And it leads to this burnout for teachers who are third, fourth year teachers, and we know that's a hump that we have to get over. So thank you for that story, because I think it's a really important topic that we need to touch on at some point today,

and we absolutely will. According to our respondents in our why educators stay survey, an overwhelming number ranked administrative support, conducive work environment and positive culture as the top three means of retaining them as educators. So we would like to have a better understanding of a few of these concepts. So let's start with positive culture. What does working in a building with a positive culture feel like

Tim mentioned, he quit that first job after three years. I retired at 25 after three years of my first school, I cashed out my trs account, and I spent a year hiking the Appalachian Trail, thinking I'd never teach again because I worked in a building that had a harmful culture. I had a principal, and I wrote a pass in the first 10 minutes of class, drag that student back by the ear and say, Mr. Curtin, we don't do that here. And while I felt that in terms of like having a really rigid system I had to follow, and when I deviated from the norm, even though my test scores were the highest in the department, not just on the tests that we had in common, but on every question on those tests, this is kind of like going back to the reading under the desk thing, like, what's the problem if I'm if it's working right, they didn't like the way I taught. I got written up for too many hugs in my classroom. And so being micromanaged like that was problematic, and I didn't have the words to express it at the time, but the way they treated students was a part of that school to prison pipeline that we're all familiar with, that phenomenon where, when you Pygmalion Effect again, when you treat students like you assume that they're a problem, you're not going to set them up for success. And I didn't want to be a part of that. Be a part of that system, so I came back. Fortunately, I had an application. I had an interview, invite to a school I didn't think I applied to. It turned out it was a regional application. I ended up teaching at Kankakee high school for six years, and there my administrator said, Oh, you gotta you got a great idea? Well, you're one of our great teachers. Why don't you go out and put it into practice and see what happens our students end up, ended up on This American Life, right? Like because an administrator empowered me and gave me the opportunity to lead and take those ideas. So that kind of support and enablement, where you raise up your best teachers, instead of trying to lead to the lowest common denominator, is really important.

So thinking back to my second year teaching, I feel like that's when I had the most positive culture, like, out of all of my teaching career, because the principal that I was working with, like it was working with them. It wasn't working for them. I wasn't working under them. I was learning and it was all asset based, just how we want to focus on our students as asset based learners. Having that experience was really empowering for me as a second year teacher still figuring it out, seeing having someone see my strengths and how I can utilize them, and I think that's a really strong part of like leadership and building culture.

I would say this, this is what it looks like. You know, when I walked I've never been in this building before I walked in, the first people I saw were smiling. They said, Welcome. How are you doing? Hi. Who are you know, introduced themselves, came in, everybody I've met, everybody I've talked to, it's just genuinely wanting to be around other people and do something positive. And leadership can set that by also being interested in seeing the people that you see, taking the time to talk to them, taking the time to listen to them, and kind of building that culture, I've recently assumed the responsibility for a fairly large Teacher Education Department, and which includes early childhood Ed, elementary ed, middle level ed. I came out of secondary ed, and so I had a really steep learning curve, and I'm still on it about these other programs. And so there's a lot of you know, kind of are you going to support our program? Are you going to what kind of administrator Are you going to be? So I have to cast myself as the learner, and I'm happy, happy to do that. I also one point in my life, I was directing a res. Residential summer camp at a university in South Dakota, and kids would come every summer, middle school, high school, kids for arts and leadership and things like that. There's a certain intensity to working in a school. You have to be really jazzed to see the people you're working with every day, and decenter yourself and just let's let's go, let's, let's, let's, it's fun because, because it's natural, it's the most natural thing in the world to learn and to teach. So

when I think about a positive culture, I really think about meeting people where they're at, and I'm in a unique position where I collaborate with teachers when it comes to, like, data collection, school psychologists. We love data. We'll have it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. We love it. And I have a lot of conversations with teachers when we're kind of like eight weeks along and we're about to have a meeting about the student and the data isn't correct or it's not evidence based intervention that you're giving. And what I find are the most productive conversations are the ones where you meet the teacher where they're at and give them grace. I understand you didn't know x, y and z. So how can I help you understand what we're looking for better? Do we need to meet more often? And the more those conversations happen with teachers and myself, the more I find over time we have better outcomes for the things that benefit students the most. The reason we have evidence based interventions is because we want to make sure that we are not placing kiddos in a more restrictive environment than they are supposed to be in, right? And so when teachers feel supported and feel like they are giving grace, because I've had teachers come into my office after a meeting in tears because they felt like they failed, and I reassure them I don't think that you're a bad teacher, that is actually the opposite of what's happening right now. You are crying because you care about the outcome for this student. So just really kind of approaching things with empathy and meeting people where they're at, I think, is really, really important to a positive school culture.

It's interesting how you answered the positive school culture question, because I also wanted to learn about what administrative support looks like. What does support from an administrator look like? Because that was one of the top answers. Why did someone stay in the profession? Well, I'll stay if I get supported. But you blended that answer with your positive culture answer. I heard the word administrator so much, but I still want to tackle that question. How do you know you are being supported?

Well, I thought, I figured we were going to go here, so I want to, I'll start I didn't understand really the importance of school culture and climate after many years as a teacher, until I became a principal. And for me, being a principal is your number one job. Is culture and climate for kids, for adults, whether they're working in the building or entering the building. And so for me, culture and climate became everything that I focused on, and what I heard and what I learned are especially and we're gonna I'll focus on the adults here, but I think it's true for kids too. It's am I seen? Am I known? And can I be myself? And what I heard from, again, whether it's support staff or teachers or other administrators, was that if I am not seen, if I'm not really known, if I can't be myself, if I come and it's I have to put on this guys when I come in and be someone else, that's exhausting to me. I can't make be myself. I can't make mistakes, you know, I can't fail forward, and so that's got to be the starting point. That's what school culture is. It's how we treat each other, and how I am treated, and how I feel there. And then, you know, I think then there's the issue of support. What does actual support look like? And it's relationships, it's connections. It's also, what is this school doing to help me be better at what I do? Whether I'm going to be a fourth grade teacher for 35 years, let's hope, or I'm going to move around in different teacher leadership roles, maybe I will go into administration, but probably not. I'm going to not want to do that. But and we've got and we've got administrators who are leaving we actually have a worse administrator leaving problem than we have teacher leaving problem, which we need to talk about because we're we all have to work together on this. So what is the school culture doing to help me get better at relationships, at my content, at my skills over the. Course of my entire career,

and so you're not necessarily talking about teaching resources, right?

No, no, but if a school is not well resourced, right, we're not going to be able to support me. One of the problems we have right now as we sit here is there are not substitute teachers available so that we can provide teachers a chance to go and do things like this during the school year, when they're being paid to do those things, right? So we have to that's a resource. I'm a classroom teacher. I'm not solving the sub problem. You're the superintendent. You solve the sub problem. You're the HR director, you solve the sub problem so I can do my job better. So resourcing is important, and we want to identify that, but it's, I don't You're right. It's not the number one reason. I

want to shout out my former superintendent and Kankakee, dr, janara Walters, maybe some of you know her retiring this year. She was a great leader and mentor for me. And this was, this was before we did that whole project that I alluded to, she was leading a tour of like principals from the Southland area, and she came into my classroom and she said, I want to introduce you to one of our best teachers that just really does so much with kids, and he's got these innovative methods, and they're wonderful, like the superintendent of, I think 13 school district knew that about me in my classroom, so knowing me and having that relationship was important. It also was particularly valuable because that principal that fired me for too much hugging was in the group she was touring, but more than that recognition, what she gave me was an invitation and continued opportunities to lead. She said, Oh, you got this crazy project that your kids proposed that's going to require cooperation from the whole city and the park district and whatever. Let me set you up a meeting with the mayor, great that's supporting the teachers and putting them in the position to succeed. But I think it goes beyond that. This year, Teach Plus, did research into how teachers begin to see themselves as leaders. And when I say Teach Plus, I really mean, I was at home on parental leave, and Dr Portia ransom back there in the back of the room was conducting this research credit where it's due. We asked teachers, how did you first begin to see yourselves as leaders? And there are two most common answers. The principal had a committee. They need filled, and they wouldn't tap somebody. In some cases, that's because, well, this person's going to be a problem unless I put them in a constructive role. But more often, who do you think that teacher, that principal, is going to tap? It's going to be somebody that looks and thinks like them. So that's not building equity in our system, because it's not intentional. And the other most common is folks like me. Look, I was a leader already because of the training I'd gotten as a youth that happened to wander into your school. And so thank you for recognizing that and putting me in a position. But that's not intentional or equitable either, because those early opportunities, they come to folks with privilege. And so what we really need to do, and what our research found is that supportive administrators are those that build a distributive leadership system that is intentional and that invites leaders to have a real seat at the table, real decision making and real opportunities impact student success.

I think we are close to time. So I'm going to ask this last question, because I think it's really important. It gets to why educators stay and you get to boast a little bit about yourself, because I think that educators, I know that educators can be the biggest cheerleader of education, the education profession, and oftentimes we don't see that. It is disheartening when you see teachers telling their students, oh, don't become a teacher. Or you see school counselors saying, Oh, you don't want to go in the profession of being an educator, when we can be our biggest cheerleader. So when we talk about why educators stay from where you sit, and we have a very diverse panel here, you got different jobs within the education profession. What value do you add to helping educators like yourself stay in the profession? So I'm putting you on the spot. Jordan, you got a mic in your hand. I

really wanted to share it. What I bring to the table is I like approaching things with humor and empathy and kindness. So I feel like having a really personable approach makes it easy to collaborate with others and including the kids. They can smell it if you're not genuine. We all know this. I find that that part of my personality really helps me in this profession, and then I also always want to have a growth mindset for myself, and so approaching things with that growth mindset when we're problem solving through like MTSS behavioral health teams, crisis, all of those things we're all learning as we go along. Unfortunately, we can be trained, you know, in everything, but experience, unfortunately is the biggest educator in our field. So I find that always approaching things with that growth mindset is really helpful.

Okay, let's get. One or two more responses before we end

just being authentic and being my authentic self, no matter where I am. One thing that I shared was like thinking about when we did the little share with 10% being 10% bolder and being 10% bolder in an environment where I see that I can make a difference, just taking every moment as an opportunity to do that and realizing that F I want to make changes, I can't be tolerant of things that I see that are wrong.

Thank you.

It's interesting, because I don't know that you can answer that question for yourself. You might you know you have a sense of what you think you're bringing to a situation, but it's really you'd have to ask the people that are around me to say whether, what kind of value, if any, I'm lending. But I would say, for the people whose career advancement I'm responsible for, even students, if I were teaching fourth graders, is number one, I'll take them seriously. And number two, try to support in the in the mundane ways, like financial support, workload support, those kinds of things. But also just be a good gardener. Water the garden of ideas that spring up when people come to you with an idea value, that listen to that and help them in any way they wish, and also know when to get out of the way those, those are the things that I

real, real quick, two things that I'm doing that I'm so excited about. One is partially because of this conference and what we did last year, I am leading an initiative through the Illinois P 20 network called Keep Illinois, keeping educators engaged professionally, and the goal is to do exactly what we're doing here today. And so that's one thing I'm doing, and I'd love for all of you to join and help out on that statewide initiative that we're working on. The second thing is, a lot of my work I'm doing right now is about creating Mentally Healthy Schools, and I think if we can get to the point where we start making decisions through the lens of mental health, we actually will change the game for students and staff. And so I'd love to talk more with any of you about that. I want to thank our panel.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr Joi. Visit our website at G, O, v, s, t.edu/teaching, and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode,

we appreciate Governor State University's work behind the scenes to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr Amy and Dr Joi.