Shownotes
State of the Second host John sits down with Tony and Ryan from Vertx, the tactical bag and apparel brand whose parent company, Flying Cross, has been making first responder and law enforcement uniforms for more than 180 years. The conversation traces how Vertx grew out of that uniform business: after 9/11, one of the three-letter agencies asked the company to build low-visibility gear so people deploying overseas wouldn't be a target on day one, and that work eventually turned into the commercial bags and clothing the brand is known for. The guests explain the core idea behind everything they make, which they call tactical function, not tactical fashion. The goal is normal-looking gear that quietly carries a folded AR, a pistol, a med kit, or an armor panel without announcing itself.
Much of the episode is about real-world carry and preparedness. John shares stories about backpack guns, the GoBag, the Gamut, and using his bag's first-aid setup when his sister-in-law slipped on a Smoky Mountains trail and cut her knee open. The hosts and guests dig into off-body and hybrid carry, the surge in fanny packs (one top-three account saw seven of its top ten Vertx items become fanny packs in a year), and the partnership with Lena that built a women's line designed for how women actually dress and carry rather than the shrink-it-and-pink-it approach. They cover Vertx's work with Premier Body Armor on NIJ-certified panels, including the uncomfortable reality that parents buy panels for school-age kids, and the bag's luggage pass-through that doubles as a way to use the pack as a shield.
The back half turns to the Second Amendment and the gun industry itself. John makes the case for GOA membership at 25 dollars a year, points to wins like Bruen and the bump stock case, and explains why GOA won't back constitutional carry bills loaded with red flag laws. Tony delivers a guard-the-gate argument that the Second Amendment is only what the Supreme Court says it is, which is why elections and court appointments matter. They also talk about the close, supportive culture of the firearms industry, where people congratulate the company for landing a good hire rather than the other way around, and where brands compete for customers but still support each other. The episode closes with a pitch for GOA's first GOALS event in Knoxville, where Vertx shares a footprint with Premier Body Armor and people can put hands on the product.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What is the history behind Vertx, and how did a uniform company more than 180 years old end up making tactical bags?
Vertx grew out of its parent uniform company, which has made first responder and law enforcement uniforms for more than 180 years. After 9/11, a three-letter agency asked it to build low-visibility gear so personnel deploying overseas wouldn't be targeted, and that work became the commercial bags Vertx sells today.
What does Vertx mean by tactical function, not tactical fashion?
It means building normal-looking gear that quietly does a tactical job rather than advertising it. A Vertx bag or piece of clothing carries a folded AR, a pistol, a med kit, or an armor panel without announcing itself as tactical.
Why have fanny packs taken off as a carry option, and how does the Lena partnership serve women who carry?
Fanny packs took off because off-body and hybrid carry are surging; one top-three account saw seven of its top ten Vertx items become fanny packs in a single year. The partnership with Lena built a women's line designed for how women actually dress and carry, rather than the shrink-it-and-pink-it approach.
How does Vertx work with Premier Body Armor, and why do certifications matter when choosing armor?
Vertx partners with Premier Body Armor on NIJ-certified panels that fit inside its bags. Certification matters because it is the tested standard that tells a buyer the panel meets a real protection level, a point that hits home given that parents buy panels for school-age kids.
What can a Vertx bag carry besides a firearm, and how does the luggage pass-through work?
Beyond a firearm, a Vertx bag carries a med kit, an armor panel, and everyday organization; the host recounts using his bag's first-aid setup after a family member cut her knee on a Smoky Mountains trail. The luggage pass-through slides the pack onto a suitcase handle and doubles as a way to hold it as a shield.
Why does Gun Owners of America refuse to support some constitutional carry bills even when they expand carry rights?
Gun Owners of America (GOA) won't back constitutional carry bills that come loaded with provisions like red flag laws, because the added restrictions undercut the right the bill claims to expand. The episode frames restrictive language wrapped around the Second Amendment as a noose that keeps tightening.
Why does Tony argue the Second Amendment is only what the Supreme Court says it is?
Tony makes a guard-the-gate case that the Second Amendment is worth only what the Supreme Court rules it to mean, which is why elections and court appointments matter so much. He points to wins like Bruen and the bump stock case as proof that the courts decide the right's real scope.
What is GOA's GOALS event, and what will attendees find there?
The Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) is GOA's first event, held in Knoxville. Vertx shares a footprint there with Premier Body Armor so attendees can put hands on the product in person.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and getting everyone to Myrtle Beach
- 00:46 — The history of Vertx and Flying Cross
- 02:13 — The shoot-me-first uniform and going low vis
- 03:42 — Where the name Vertx comes from
- 04:21 — John's first Vertx gear and backpack guns
- 11:23 — Gray man carry stories at the airport and SHOT Show
- 16:23 — Premier Body Armor panels and the school-bag conversation
- 20:45 — The Lena partnership and a women's line done right
- 27:39 — Why fanny packs took off as hybrid carry
- 30:30 — Tactigami, organization, and preparedness beyond a firearm
- 39:42 — Overlanding, self-sufficiency, and the 2A overlap
- 49:57 — Joining GOA, value guns, and protecting the right
- 55:30 — Guard the gate and the Supreme Court argument
- 1:10:19 — How John got into firearms and the industry
- 1:16:54 — The tight, supportive culture of the gun industry
- 1:32:38 — Customer service, warranties, and the GOALS event pitch
About the guest
Tony and Ryan represent Vertx, the commercial tactical bag and apparel brand. Vertx's parent company is Beckmann Brothers / Flying Cross [VERIFY], a maker of first responder and law enforcement uniforms that the guests describe as a 183 to 184 year old company. Tony and Ryan focus on the commercial side of the business. Ryan was a teacher in Florida before joining Vertx and previously coached youth female athletes. The brand's positioning is tactical function, not tactical fashion, and it partners with Premier Body Armor on NIJ-certified panels and with Lena on a women's line.
Key quotes
"Creating normal people clothes that have tactical function." — Ryan
"Tactical function versus tactical fashion." — Tony
"The best thing that could ever happen is for them to carry an extra half a pound for five years and never need it." — Tony
"If the fanny pack is what, what gets the firearm to be on you, then the fanny pack is a winner." — Ryan
"No one's coming to save you." — Tony
"It's nothing more than the Supreme Court says it is." — Tony
"When you start putting language and restrictions around that second amendment, that noose just continues to tighten." — Tony
"I'd rather be a walking billboard for two people that support us than being wearing a billboard for somebody else." — John
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners America's State of the Second podcast.
Speaker A:I am John and I'm here with Tony and Ryan from Vertex.
Speaker A:Guys, how are you today?
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Thanks for having us.
Speaker A:Thanks for coming.
Speaker B:I wanted to do this for a while.
Speaker A:Well, you know, you guys are so hard to get here.
Speaker A:I mean, you came from Nashville, you came from Orlando.
Speaker A:I came from Phoenix.
Speaker A:We're all here in one spot in Myrtle.
Speaker B:The beautiful, beautiful spot.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, this is beautiful.
Speaker A:Except.
Speaker B:Except what you see is what you get to see as a podcast studio.
Speaker B:You might as well be in Arizona.
Speaker A:Listen, it was 113 when I left.
Speaker A:So I got here.
Speaker A:I'm like, why is it wet?
Speaker A:Why can't I taste the air?
Speaker B:What's this green stuff?
Speaker A:Yeah, what is green?
Speaker A:God.
Speaker A:So let's dive into this.
Speaker A:Let's talk about the history of Vertex, how the company got started and some of the background.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of an interesting story.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't know that our parent company is a company called Beckheimer Brothers Company, Flying Cross.
Speaker B:Anybody that's a first responder, law enforcement might be familiar with that Flying Cross brand and their uniforms.
Speaker B:Our company's 183, 184 year old company.
Speaker B:We, we.
Speaker B:That's how long we've been making uniforms.
Speaker B:We've been making uniforms so long that we made uniforms for the Union and the Confederates during the Civil War.
Speaker A:That's a long time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Job security.
Speaker B:So, you know, kind of Flash forward to 9 11.
Speaker B:Most people remember how the world changed after 9 11.
Speaker B:Even if they were young, they still remember kind of how the world changed.
Speaker B:And, and so like I said, we've been in the uniform game for a long time.
Speaker B:We've been working with three letter agencies since before they were agencies and we were guys were getting deployed all over the world.
Speaker B:And if you kind of picture in your mind what that guy looks like, he's, he's probably wearing a shooter's vest, khaki shirt, tack pants, coyote boots.
Speaker B:His backpack has Molly all over it.
Speaker B:He's got a black rifle, right?
Speaker B:So you stick that guy in the desert and he's a target.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They started calling it the shoot me first uniform.
Speaker B:And so, so one of the three letter agencies came to us and said, hey, we need to deploy these people all over the world, but they can't be a target on day one, so can you help us?
Speaker B:And so we went to work, started working on uniforms first.
Speaker B:So low vis uniforms, so everything they were wearing was still Very tactical and feature rich.
Speaker B:Still did everything they needed them to do, but it was low vis.
Speaker B:They were able to blend in.
Speaker B:You literally have a team of 20 guys in the same air quotes uniform, but they all look different.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so then from there we started, started working on bags and packs and, and again, military grade stuff.
Speaker B:Then that turned into the commercial market, which is where Nash and I really focus that commercial business.
Speaker B:Anything to add to that?
Speaker B:I think I missed some things.
Speaker C:No, no, that's.
Speaker C:That's really who we are.
Speaker C:Creating normal people clothes that have tactical function.
Speaker C:So it's kind of the.
Speaker C:The brand is.
Speaker C:Is tactical function, not tactical fashion.
Speaker C:So it's not that outward facing type of stuff that just kind of blends into not our lifestyle or anything, but it's just normal.
Speaker C:It just happens to have the function of.
Speaker C:Of tactical.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that that's where we lean into that a lot.
Speaker B:Tactical function versus tactical fashion.
Speaker B:Right, or tactical or, you know, whatever the buzzword is.
Speaker B:The one thing that I did want to mention, maybe somebody will win a trivia night with this little fun fact, is the name Vertex.
Speaker B:V E R T X.
Speaker B:Everybody misspells it.
Speaker B:Looks like it needs a vowel.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:That comes from V E, R T is from COVID Right.
Speaker B:So vert and the X.
Speaker B:Are you familiar with arc'?
Speaker B:Teryx?
Speaker B:Yeah, the brand.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So our CEO came from the fabric world.
Speaker B:And at the time that this brand kicked off, we had a really close working relationship with arc'.
Speaker B:Teryx.
Speaker B:Unofficial.
Speaker B:We shared some designers, some fabric development, performance fabrics.
Speaker B:And so that X is just kind of a nod to arc'.
Speaker B:Teryx.
Speaker B:So that's Vertex.
Speaker B:That's where the name comes from.
Speaker B:So not that anybody cares, but now you know.
Speaker A:Well, my first Vertex item was actually a uniform shirt.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:So not a bag?
Speaker A:Not a bag.
Speaker A:When I worked at Faxon, all our show shirts were vertex.
Speaker A:I will say, why so much starch?
Speaker A:I had to like wash those shirts like 12 times.
Speaker C:I know the shirt you're talking about.
Speaker B:It's our uniform roots.
Speaker B:It's taken us a minute to pivot into what consumers want to wear.
Speaker A:Listen, I had to wash the shirt 12 times before I could wear it at a show or else my neck would be bleeding by the time I was done.
Speaker A:But no, I got into the brand with uniform shirts.
Speaker A:Then I got the gamut 2 or the gamut backpack that I put nice 11 and a half or 10 and a half built AR that I stuck right into it and had a great backpack gun for a long Time, you know, and that's the big thing with your guys's product, is that, you know, they're the concealed ability, the off carry, the off body carry, the backpack carry has become very popular with the, you know, the advent of pistol ars, and the folding stocks and braces, the PDWs, if you want to call them, because they're not really PCCs, they're kind of PDWs, I guess, depending on where you stand on that.
Speaker A:But having the ability to have my pistol sit next to my desk all day was fantastic.
Speaker A:Just carry my bag in, put it down.
Speaker A:I mean, I worked for an AR manufacturer.
Speaker A:I really hope I didn't have to use it ever.
Speaker A:But it was nice to know that I could have a little bit more power than just my pistol.
Speaker A:But, yeah, that's how I got involved with you guys.
Speaker A:And another fun fact is that you guys were just up the road for me when I worked at Jackson.
Speaker A:You guys are based out of Cincinnati, Ohio?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, is Cincinnati.
Speaker A:Now, I've.
Speaker A:I gotta ask this question.
Speaker A:Is Cincinnati chili really chilly?
Speaker B:You're gonna make us make fun of.
Speaker A:Cincinnati a little bit.
Speaker B:The fair.
Speaker B:We will, all day long.
Speaker C:Cincinnati chili is.
Speaker C:It's its own thing.
Speaker C:So it's not actually chili?
Speaker C:No, no, no, it's not.
Speaker C:In order for it to be chili, I. I believe that it has to have beans.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:That's how I feel.
Speaker C:I love Cincinnati chili, though.
Speaker C:I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it.
Speaker C:But it's not chili.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker C:I'm Cincinnati sludge.
Speaker B:No beans, no noodles, for sure.
Speaker B:No cinnamon.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Oh, it's a casserole.
Speaker A:No cinnamon.
Speaker B:Chili.
Speaker B:Okay, Cinnamon, but dark chocolate.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, let's leave the noodles out.
Speaker B:Can we agree to that?
Speaker A:Okay, yeah.
Speaker C:I'll put it on the coneys at the Cheese Mountain.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So Cincinnati, you guys have been to hq.
Speaker A:Are we talking skyline or gold star?
Speaker C:Oh, skyline all the way.
Speaker C:When they made the switch in the.
Speaker B:Airport in terminal B those one time, I don't remember.
Speaker B:It's not memorable.
Speaker C:Skyline 100% or blue ash.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker C:Just stick with Skyline.
Speaker C:It's so delicious.
Speaker B:I podcast sponsored by Sky.
Speaker C:They actually switched in terminal B at the CVG airport.
Speaker C:They switched that gold star to a skyline, and it made me really excited as a.
Speaker C:As a chubby guy.
Speaker A:Listen, Cincinnati, I'm gonna say I'm gonna offend everybody in Cincinnati.
Speaker A:Cincinnati is technically just Northern Kentucky.
Speaker A:The airport is in Kentucky.
Speaker A:As an Ohioan, I'm just gonna give Cincinnati away.
Speaker A:I mean, everyone can argue with me, but it's, it's, it's Kentucky.
Speaker C:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker B:It's not Cleveland.
Speaker A:It's not Cleveland.
Speaker A:Yeah, Cleveland's where it's at.
Speaker C:Even Dayton is better than Cincinnati.
Speaker A:There's a lot of places better.
Speaker B:This is going to get us in trouble.
Speaker C:Whatever.
Speaker A:It's all right.
Speaker A:I made fun of Cincinnati all the time.
Speaker A:Being from Cleveland, I can make fun of Cincinnati all the time.
Speaker C:There's good beer in Ohio though.
Speaker C:So in Cincinnati there's a couple breweries that are really, really good.
Speaker C:Mad Tre and Rheist Ry says, oh,.
Speaker A:I can't get rh Gu in Arizona.
Speaker C:And you want it?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And graders ice cream.
Speaker A:Yes, graders ice cream is the best.
Speaker B:You got me with graters.
Speaker B:That's that, that, that redeemed Cincinnati.
Speaker C:I like Cincinnati now.
Speaker B:I love Cincinnati.
Speaker B:Let's go get some graters.
Speaker A:Dark chocolate graters, ice cream and some skyline chili.
Speaker A:Just don't mix the two together and you'll be all right.
Speaker C:Backpack with a folded AR in it.
Speaker C:Perfect Deal.
Speaker B:That's a good.
Speaker B:That's a good point.
Speaker B:If it's not a pdw, if you don't have it with you, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Let's make it easy.
Speaker A:I've had to pull my PDW one time.
Speaker A:I was with a good friend of mine, Mike Mills.
Speaker A:Everybody knows, tactical considerations.
Speaker A:We were at the Chandler mall in Phoenix.
Speaker A:We're sitting there talking and Mike looks at me and he goes, hey man, we're getting slow rolled.
Speaker A:What do you mean Mike?
Speaker A:And Mike's like, grab your stuff.
Speaker A:I'm like, grab my stuff.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:So I go in, I got my bag, I'm getting ready to go.
Speaker A:I'm like, cool.
Speaker A:I'm with Mike.
Speaker A:I'm gonna get no shots off.
Speaker B:That's who I want to be with.
Speaker A:Exactly who I want to be with.
Speaker A:I'm gonna get no shots off.
Speaker B:They just stand behind him and just stand there.
Speaker A:Mike, you win this round.
Speaker A:But no, it was a peace of mind thing to be able to have a full power firearm.
Speaker A:Being in a.556 cartridge versus.
Speaker A:Versus having just my, my.365 on me, which is micro compact and being a decent distance, not too far.
Speaker A:But being able to have something like that is a good peace of mind.
Speaker A:And that's why I really like your guys product.
Speaker A:Because having the peace of mind of having something that I can shoulder or hold up depending on, you know, how you define the brace.
Speaker C:Three points of contact.
Speaker A:Yeah, three points of contact.
Speaker A:Is always better, but being able to have those, you know, I mean, my, my new backpack gun is switched over to a strybog.
Speaker A:Really love the Stryborg design, throwing it into the backpack.
Speaker A:But that's what your guys's bags are known for.
Speaker A:Being able to quick deploy firearms right out of the back while it looking just like any other bag.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, that's, that's.
Speaker B:I think what you said is, is key is it's.
Speaker B:And not to steal your, your verbiage here, but Nash is always comparing the bags to like an AR platform, right?
Speaker B:You, it's the most popular platform because you can use that.
Speaker B:You can be a hog hunter, you can do long range shooting, home defense.
Speaker B:It's all the same platform.
Speaker B:You do with it what you will.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Our bags are like that.
Speaker B:Like your bags kitted out.
Speaker B:I guarantee different than the next guy that carries almost the same thing you have.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:But to your point, it's.
Speaker B:It you don't, you don't notice it.
Speaker B:Probably my, My favorite story was my two favorite stories.
Speaker B:I'll tell them both if we got time.
Speaker B:Yeah, the.
Speaker B:I think it was my first week on the job.
Speaker B:Flew out here, landed in Savannah.
Speaker B:Three day range event that you've been to before.
Speaker B:And you know, in our world, you kind of practice situational awareness anyway, right.
Speaker B:So plane lands, everybody stands up.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, 11 of these guys are going to the range.
Speaker B:It was like super obvious who was on their way to the range, right?
Speaker B:Like 12, counting me.
Speaker B:But I, I had a vertex.
Speaker B:I was dressed like this.
Speaker B:You just, you know, nobody would have guessed I was on my way, made it way to the range, right?
Speaker B:That's kind of what we were going for.
Speaker B:And then the other one happened before I got there.
Speaker B:But one of the reps that was covering Las Vegas checked into his hotel in Vegas.
Speaker B:He had two big tactical duffels that we don't make full of samples full of his.
Speaker B:I don't even remember what samples he had.
Speaker B:Not ours, but.
Speaker B:And then he had a gamut backpack and his gamut.
Speaker B:He had a folded ar, he had his knives, he had his mags, he had suppressed.
Speaker B:He had everything.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And security walked up to him and they said, hey, it's, you know, this is four years ago.
Speaker B:They said, hey, it's Las Vegas.
Speaker B:You know that we've had some incidents here.
Speaker B:I see these duffels.
Speaker B:You mind if I take a look?
Speaker B:Because you know, the guy was paying attention.
Speaker B:He's like, okay, this guy checking into his hotel with two big Tactical duffels.
Speaker B:I ought to be curious.
Speaker B:So he said no, here's what I do.
Speaker B:Hands him his card, unzips the duffels, looks at his samples.
Speaker B:He's all right, thanks.
Speaker B:Just had to check and kept going.
Speaker B:Didn't ask him about his backpack.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it didn't.
Speaker B:Didn't occur to him that if it had Molly all over it and you know, Gadsden flag or whatever, he might have been curious.
Speaker B:But he wasn't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's a double edged sword when you think about that story.
Speaker B:It's like great that that's what we're going for.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:He was fully kitted out, ready for anything.
Speaker B:I went unnoticed to security.
Speaker B:On the other hand, security is the guy that should know what Vertex is.
Speaker B:So we have some Runway.
Speaker A:Well yeah, that happened this time at Shot show.
Speaker A:I was standing in the lobby with at the the Link with something like a Boss and what the kicks.
Speaker A:And we're sitting there talking and they.
Speaker A:Their security is going through their camera gear because it's a hard pelican case.
Speaker A:I'm sitting there with my backpack, my vertex, my gamut too.
Speaker A:It's bright silver, mind you.
Speaker A:So it stands out a little bit.
Speaker A:And I'm like, cool, I'm just gonna go up to my hotel room and not say a word about anything.
Speaker A:And we just walked right by.
Speaker A:Nobody said anything.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And that's the nice thing about having we talk about this like gray man mentality or you know, blending in and having the Vertex bag has been a big, you know, reason why, you know, if I go out or something, I have that the ability to carry something.
Speaker A:And it just looks like any normal bag.
Speaker A:My favorite bag so far.
Speaker A:So I've got two gamut twos and then my favorite bag.
Speaker A:And I don't know everybody, I think I talked to you about it, I talked to a couple other people is the Go bag.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just such a lightweight bag I carry.
Speaker A:I travel with that everywhere because it fits right underneath the plane seat.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:It crunches up.
Speaker A:It's not hard or it's not that a stiffer material.
Speaker A:That bag is fantastic.
Speaker B:It's a great one to just stuff in your other bag and if you wind up needing a second bag or you get a chance to go do a day hike or whatever.
Speaker B:Oh, I have this extra bag.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think this year.
Speaker A:I know I, I carried around the Gamut it shop but I thought really thought hard about carrying that bag around because it's just, it's lightweight, it's easy, it's breathable.
Speaker A:It's love that bag.
Speaker A:Can't say enough nice things about that bag.
Speaker A:And it's, it's inexpensive too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like what?
Speaker B:Sub 50 bucks?
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker B:And that, that's important for us too.
Speaker B:One of the things that we've learned over the years is if someone has a vertex item, on average he has 12 vertex items.
Speaker B:This is, this is old data.
Speaker B:It may be a bigger number now.
Speaker C:Or she.
Speaker B:Or she.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:So she or he has 12 on average.
Speaker B:So, so getting, getting somebody into that first one is important.
Speaker B:You know, it's not easy as you know to like drop 200 and something bucks on your first vertex backpack.
Speaker B:You don't, you don't know.
Speaker B:You've seen the YouTube reviews, but you haven't maybe put hands on it.
Speaker B:It's, it's a big decision.
Speaker A:Well, I made the, the phone call to the office.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna say how much I paid for the bag, but I got a good deal on one.
Speaker B:Yeah, you don't buy them anymore.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I love that game.
Speaker A:It's been, it was my go to bag for a very, very, very long time until I got the gamut.
Speaker A:2.
Speaker A:Speaking of your bags, the other thing that a lot of people may not know or do know, I mean not only does do you do the bags, but you also do the accessories.
Speaker A:So you've got the Tactagami stuff, but also you've got a little sleeve in the back to stick your arm through with some body armor.
Speaker C:I mean you got everything, it's got everything in.
Speaker C:Once again, tactical function just doesn't happen to be tactical fashion.
Speaker C:So premier body armor makes the panels specifically made for our bags across our entire bag line.
Speaker C:So they do make hard panels for it as well.
Speaker C:But the, the standard is that three a panel covers you all the way through.44 mag through one inch shotgun slugs,.
Speaker B:Shotgun slugs, double up, shotgun round.
Speaker C:It's all NIJ certified.
Speaker C:It's, it's real armor.
Speaker C:Because that's the one thing people get confused about with armor and it's, it's the reason why we work so closely with Premier body armor is because there are certifications that are real that actually matter, but there's also fake certifications out there.
Speaker C:And we have to be super careful with something that we're going to depend our life on, you know, basically be able to have in front of us to protect ourselves, our loved ones, whoever.
Speaker C:And premier body armor hits that mark across the board.
Speaker C:I travel everywhere with my soft panel it's all TSA approved.
Speaker C:I've never been questioned for, I get questioned for my flashlight.
Speaker C:I know some people that get questioned for coins.
Speaker C:Having too many coins recently, that was an interesting one.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:Armor panel?
Speaker C:Nah, I'm good.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you're.
Speaker B:What, what you mentioned was that we call it a luggage pass through.
Speaker B:If you look at the back of the backpack, there's a pass through.
Speaker B:So the, the story is if you have a rolling bag, you can drop that sideways on that, the pop up handle and free up an arm.
Speaker B:But really, if, if you know something's going down, if you're hanging out with Mike Mills and you're getting slow rolled, then you put your arm through that, that panel and go full Captain America with that bag as a shield.
Speaker B:Or, you know, more likely you're out at, out at an event with your, your girlfriend, your wife, your mom.
Speaker B:Something's weird.
Speaker B:You can, you can provide coverage for, for that other person that you're with.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And let's say, let's just, let's take this outside.
Speaker B:Let's get away from this weirdness.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:I don't know how to bring this up.
Speaker B:This is, this can be awkward.
Speaker B:We, we sell bags to parents that want to put a panel in for their kids that are still, that are still school age.
Speaker B:Um, it's an awkward conversation to have.
Speaker B:We're never going to have a back to school sale on body armor.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:We don't, we don't, we don't like that.
Speaker B:That's a thing.
Speaker B:But we want to be part of the solution.
Speaker B:You know, there, there are bad people out there.
Speaker B:My, my kids have had armor in their bags the whole time.
Speaker B:They know why they have armor.
Speaker B:And, and I hope the worst thing you could ever, the best thing that could ever happen is for them to carry an extra half a pound for five years and never need it.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:No, I can agree more with that.
Speaker A:I mean, I was gonna.
Speaker A:You brought it up.
Speaker A:I was gonna bring it up.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, unfortunately a real fact that there are people out there who are willing to create harm and cause harm to children.
Speaker A:And, you know, that peace of mind as a parent.
Speaker A:I mean, there's a lot of parents who've talked about, you know, getting just your guys's product and throwing in that half a pound piece of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it just sits right in there.
Speaker A:You don't.
Speaker A:It's got its own pocket.
Speaker A:So I applaud you guys for, you know, Thinking of putting that panel spot not only just for the bad things, but also just in general.
Speaker A:I mean, you don't know what's going to happen in the world today.
Speaker A:And just having that peace of mind that, oh, yeah, I've got something to.
Speaker A:To protect myself in case something happens, you know.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:It's a great peace of mind to have.
Speaker B:Premier has been a great partner to work with on those two.
Speaker B:It's obviously they make panels for our backpacks.
Speaker B:They make a lot of sense.
Speaker B:You can, you know, you can throw it on backwards, cover your.
Speaker B:Your whole chest cavity.
Speaker B:But they make panels for everything.
Speaker B:Everything as small as our new EDC fanny pack.
Speaker B:The Lena Michelette collaboration looks like the.
Speaker B:Looks like the Lululemon pack.
Speaker B:There's a panel that fits that.
Speaker B:It's not a lot of coverage.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But it like it's going to cover your.
Speaker B:Most of your thoracic cavity.
Speaker C:That's more than zero, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is fun.
Speaker A:Well, now that since you.
Speaker A:Since you brought up Lena, you guys have got a great partnership with her and have come out with this full women's line of, of bags and pants and things like that.
Speaker A:You know, you guys were a proud sponsor and helper with our fashion show at our national women's Range Day in Texas.
Speaker A:You know, what's it been like to go into that market?
Speaker B:Yeah, Shout out to Texas Gun Experience.
Speaker B:They did a great job.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, what was the question?
Speaker B:What's that?
Speaker A:What's it been like to get into that market, the women's market, because it was underserved for a very long time, and now we're seeing this explosion of concealed carry options for women.
Speaker C:Well, so one of the biggest issues with any of this is that it has to be profitable, right?
Speaker C:Well, the women's market is extremely profitable, whatever it is, because, you know, it's more than half of all the people, just as a whole.
Speaker C:One of the issues that we were running into within our industry was the shrink it and pink it idea.
Speaker C:Shrink it and pink it is absolutely offensive.
Speaker C:It's not okay.
Speaker B:It's the easy button.
Speaker C:It's the easy button.
Speaker C:And that's what we saw with women's apparel as a whole.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Well, we can make women's apparel.
Speaker C:We can say we're making women's apparel, but are we actually making apparel for women?
Speaker C:And are we taking in female design patterns, things like that, that actually matter to the female concealed carry person?
Speaker C:And that's where Lena just, I mean, she takes it to a whole new level.
Speaker C:She is absolutely exemplary in somebody that wants to carry while still being, you know, living her.
Speaker C:Her life, how she wants to live it, because that's one of the things me, you.
Speaker C:We can.
Speaker C:We can carry on our person because of the shapes of our bodies and the clothes.
Speaker C:Clothing that we normally wear.
Speaker C:Women have a whole different aspect of that, and we already know this.
Speaker C:There's expectations on what to wear and what not to wear at certain events.
Speaker C:On the male side, we can get away with quite a bit in terms of, okay, it's a suit.
Speaker C:Okay, it's jeans.
Speaker C:Okay, it's jeans with a suit jacket.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And it's all the same always on the female side.
Speaker C:It's constantly changing for different events based on whatever the social requirements are.
Speaker C:Lena is making sure that people can carry in almost every aspect.
Speaker C:And it happens to be working with Vertex, which.
Speaker B:Yeah, you.
Speaker B:You may have.
Speaker B:Anybody that follows her has heard her version of this story.
Speaker B:And so I just tell a quick version because my.
Speaker B:And my.
Speaker B:I won't do it justice.
Speaker B:One day you'll have her on the podcast and she'll.
Speaker B:She'll tell this story and everybody will be in tears when she finishes.
Speaker B:But she.
Speaker B:You basically, if you know who she is, if you don't know who she is, look her up.
Speaker B:But she born on a gun range, literally, and grew up with two of the best competitive shooters as parents in the world.
Speaker B:And I think it's kind of eclipsed them now in accomplishments.
Speaker B:But she'll tell you that she didn't start carrying kind of like concealed carry until, what, five years ago, maybe six.
Speaker B:And then she only did it for, like six months because of what Ryan said she was carrying.
Speaker B:And she's like, crap, I gotta change what I wear.
Speaker B:I can't wear what I feel comfortable in.
Speaker B:This isn't.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is inconvenient for me.
Speaker B:So she stopped.
Speaker B:And then, you know, unrest happened.
Speaker B:Cities were burning, and she stepped back and said, you know what?
Speaker B:I make my living in this industry, and I'm relying on Ryan and John to have my back.
Speaker B:I'm relying on these guys to have to be armed.
Speaker B:So let me figure this out.
Speaker B:So she went to work on how do I.
Speaker B:How do I carry, but make that work within my lifestyle instead of change my lifestyle to carry.
Speaker B:And so that's where we come in.
Speaker B:We got together, and it's not been easy, you know, like Ryan said, to make this work for women.
Speaker B:It's complicated because she's unwilling to compromise, rightly so.
Speaker B:It's like, no, this is make this work for us, not vice versa.
Speaker B:And so we're really excited about it.
Speaker B:It's taken a long time.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The fanny pack has been a lights out bestseller.
Speaker B:We've been chasing that since the.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We two of us quadrupled our forecast from day one.
Speaker B:And we've been chasing it ever since the.
Speaker B:And then the.
Speaker B:You you alluded to.
Speaker B:We've got a women's collection of clothing and some more.
Speaker B:Some more fun, say, let's say bags and packs coming soon.
Speaker B:We're excited about those because they are.
Speaker B:They are purpose built.
Speaker B:And I feel like we really got it right.
Speaker A:No, and that's the big thing.
Speaker A:I mean, you brought it up perfectly.
Speaker A:It was always shrink it and pink it or, you know, J frame or leopard print or.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm not calling out, but we were at Texas Gun Experience and there was a whole slew of like, cow print and sparkly.
Speaker A:You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker A:I'm not going to say the company name.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of.
Speaker B:There's a customer for that with the tassels.
Speaker C:Tassels everywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's what you might take to the Western Stock Show.
Speaker A:But it's one of those things like if you compromise.
Speaker A:And as goa, we are no compromise.
Speaker A:We don't make the compromises.
Speaker A:But if you compromise on something like that, you know, what's your market gonna look?
Speaker A:Okay, Well, I like that.
Speaker A:I mean, between the three of us, we probably have three bins full of holsters.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, four bins full of belts.
Speaker A:Three, you know, multiple things that we've tried.
Speaker A:And with women, they want to try.
Speaker A:They want it right the first time, God bless them for it.
Speaker A:Because then otherwise we hear about it and Kaylee's not here, so she can get away with that.
Speaker B:You'll hear about it.
Speaker A:But it's one of those things where, like, if you don't do it right, then you become known for not doing it right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to come out with a partner like Lena who.
Speaker A:Who is telling you what needs to be done.
Speaker A:I mean, it was a hit at the fashion show.
Speaker A:Everybody loved it.
Speaker A:All the girls who got to keep their stuff loved it.
Speaker A:So it's one of those things where, you know, as goa, we're very proud to partner with you guys on things like that.
Speaker A:You know, we did the partnership on.
Speaker A:On the international or the National Women's Range Day.
Speaker A:We did our partnership at Shot show, which was fantastic.
Speaker A:To get to have our team walking around with great backpacks, which.
Speaker A:Thank you Again for that.
Speaker B:Oh man, I'd love to.
Speaker B:We're looking.
Speaker B:We've got.
Speaker B:We're part of your fashion show at Goals.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:We can't wait for that.
Speaker A:I'm super excited for that too.
Speaker B:Yeah, Lena is, yeah, she, she is an influencer in the space air quotes influencer.
Speaker B:She's a lot of influence.
Speaker B:But the reason we get along with her is she'd be doing that.
Speaker B:So she wasn't getting paid for it.
Speaker B:She's not gonna, she's not gonna promote anything she doesn't believe in.
Speaker B:And we just don't move forward with anything that's not gonna work for the women.
Speaker A:Now you brought up fanny packs.
Speaker A:I love me a good fanny pack.
Speaker A:And we talked about this earlier.
Speaker B:You need one.
Speaker B:I know a guy.
Speaker A:I know a guy, but I have a fanny pack.
Speaker A:I wore it, I wear it often.
Speaker A:Cause I really like fanny pack here.
Speaker A:It's that combination of on body, off body, which is kind of like that comfortable thing.
Speaker B:That's a good point.
Speaker A:And my wife makes fun of me every time I pull it out.
Speaker A:She's like, oh, there you go with your, like, listen, this is cool.
Speaker A:Like you don't understand.
Speaker A:This is tactical kind of thing.
Speaker A:But the fanny pack thing has just taken off in the last year.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's, you know, I don't know if I'm sharing too much here.
Speaker B:One of our bigger, let's say a top three account.
Speaker B:Nash and I just had a meeting with him about a month ago and we looked at as we do kind of quarterly, we look at numbers, looked at the top 10 vertex items last year that make up about half of their business and the top 10 this year that make up about half of their business.
Speaker B:Seven of those top 10 items were Fanny packs.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's happened in the last 12 months.
Speaker C:Seven of ten.
Speaker C:Pretty wild.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like cycles.
Speaker A:90S fashion is back again.
Speaker C:Well, yes, but it also, I mean, here's the thing.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And it goes back to the Lena thing.
Speaker C:It goes back to helping females carry comfortably.
Speaker C:My wife walks our 15 month old daughter and dog around the neighborhood every single day.
Speaker C:And I always ask her, hey, please make sure you're carrying something.
Speaker C:Like you don't have to carry it on.
Speaker C:You just carry something just in case you run into something.
Speaker C:And forever it was, oh yeah, yeah, I will.
Speaker C:And she never did, um, when she started with that Lena everyday fanny pack, everyday carry pack.
Speaker C:Now she carries every single day and then beyond where wherever she was carrying in the past.
Speaker C:Now she's comfortably carrying because of that fanny pack.
Speaker C:So if the fanny pack is what, what gets the firearm to be on you, then the fanny pack is a winner.
Speaker C:Because I know as a Floridian, once again, I'm going to allude to the, the chubby person thing.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker C:It's not always comfortable to carry.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's not comfortable.
Speaker C:But if I have that fanny pack, guess what?
Speaker C:It is very comfortable.
Speaker B:Very.
Speaker B:I actually hadn't really put those words together John, that you just said.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's that kind of combination of on body, off body, somewhere in between.
Speaker B:It's a hybrid.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:And let me say this too because you were talking about Nikki and, and just our customer in general.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Our products built for off.
Speaker B:Off body carry.
Speaker B:Firearm carry.
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be a firearm.
Speaker B:You can have knife, multi tool, flashlight, tourniquet, first aid.
Speaker B:You can be prepared even if you're not, even if you haven't yet taken that step.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So obviously we want people to exercise their second amendment rights.
Speaker B:That's a big part of who we are.
Speaker B:But just having that on you with tools helps, right?
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:I mean I carry.
Speaker A:So during COVID we went on a trip to Gatlinburg.
Speaker A:We were walking, doing a trail in the Smoky Mountains and my sister in law was with us and she slipped off the trail and cut her knee open.
Speaker A:I had my, my gamut with me.
Speaker A:I had my first aid kit hooked onto it because like the front pocket pulled down and there's some molle attachments right there.
Speaker A:Had everything good to go.
Speaker A:Got her all banished up, got her back to the car, go back to the room, clean the rest of it up while we're there.
Speaker A:And that's, that's the big thing about the your guys bags.
Speaker A:There's so many pockets, so many things to put things into and get things around.
Speaker A:I mean yes, it's nice to always, you know, have that the ability to carry the firearm off the body and have it in or having a bigger firearm.
Speaker A:But also like I can utilize that bag.
Speaker A:I use it when I'm hiking and using it when I'm backpacking.
Speaker A:I'm using it when we're, when we're going over landing.
Speaker A:Like there's so many uses for that bag, just not just a vessel to carry a firearm.
Speaker B:One of the tactigami pieces I like a lot is what's the one called that comes with the next gen bags?
Speaker C:Admin Admin panel.
Speaker B:Admin panel.
Speaker B:It has, it has at all times.
Speaker B:It Has.
Speaker B:Has a light, it has tourniquet, has a pen.
Speaker B:It has a lighter and knife.
Speaker B:Whether I'm depending on whether I'm flying or not flying.
Speaker B:So that one I'll rip out of my bag and I'll throw it in my fanny pack or rip out my fanny pack and throw it in a duffel bag.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Those are staples that I just always want with me so I don't have to repack the bag.
Speaker B:It's just a quick thing I can grab, and I've got these things I know I always want to have with me.
Speaker C:Well, and then on top of that, when.
Speaker C:When we go back to the.
Speaker C:It doesn't have to be a firearm.
Speaker C:It can be whatever.
Speaker C:It can be pieces for med.
Speaker C:It can be pieces for whatever you need organized.
Speaker C:It has a place for that with the tactagami, which is tactical origami.
Speaker C:I mean, that's the play on words.
Speaker C:But when I was coaching, my back panel pocket on my coaching bag was all labeled specifically for my players.
Speaker C:So if my players, which were youth females, they needed a hair tie or they needed this or they needed that, they knew they could go in coach's bag in that back pocket and see everything labeled exactly how it was that translates to anything, whether or not it's athletic trainers, first responders of any medical world, or first responders for fire.
Speaker C:And it doesn't matter.
Speaker C:Anything that can be organized or needs to be organized.
Speaker C:That's really where we fall into.
Speaker C:And it's all without looking like, hey, this is tactical.
Speaker C:Hey, this is something that has a gun in it.
Speaker C:Hey, this is whatever.
Speaker C:It's not identifiable that way.
Speaker C:Like a lot of other things are.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:Like, what kind of.
Speaker B:For some of the listeners out there, what kind of kids are you raising if you know that.
Speaker B:Yeah, mom has.
Speaker B:Mom always has this.
Speaker B:This list of things in her bag, and she's grow up with that, you know, like, huh.
Speaker B:I learned before I even was conscious what self sufficiency looks like, right?
Speaker A:Mom's purse back in the day had what, 15 bags of tissues, cough drops, those little hard candies that nobody wanted to eat.
Speaker C:Delicious.
Speaker A:Oh, delicious.
Speaker A:Those butterscotches.
Speaker C:My wife loves those things.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, they're horrible.
Speaker A:The strawberry candy that nobody knows the name for but just knows it's grandma's.
Speaker A:Grandma's candy.
Speaker C:Grandma's strawberry wants.
Speaker B:100 Years ago, they're still floating around bottom of bags.
Speaker A:But yeah, but that's the thing.
Speaker A:It was never organized.
Speaker A:And now you.
Speaker A:You've got A way to organize it.
Speaker A:And I've never even thought about my.
Speaker A:My sister's a athletic trainer just north of Cincinnati and I've never even thought about getting her Vertex back to use.
Speaker A:She gets, she gets one of those things from the conferences, but that's another neat thing.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's a lot of uses and the big thing there is that it could be used for her as, as an at, but then it has the tactical function of.
Speaker C:You can still put that armor panel in it.
Speaker C:Because anybody that's been in the public school system in any way whatsoever knows that it's.
Speaker C:It's not, it's not like it's horrible fear mongering, not safe.
Speaker C:But there's dangerous things.
Speaker B:That's a guy who taught in Florida for years.
Speaker B:How many shootings did you have a week?
Speaker C:A lot.
Speaker C:I mean, I'll say a lot.
Speaker C:You know, there wasn't, there wasn't a school year that went by that we didn't have a kid that was killed in the streets, you know.
Speaker C:And this.
Speaker C:Now that's how I was introduced to Vertex, by the way, is, is because I was a teacher and my buddy was like, hey, I have a backpack company that makes armor panels and so forth.
Speaker C:And I started carrying an armor panel in my backpack.
Speaker C:But so that, that person has that.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:It doesn't have to be like a prepper.
Speaker C:It doesn't have to be this idea that you have to have everything.
Speaker C:You, you just have the ability to have what you need and what you're comfortable using.
Speaker C:So if you have no idea how to use a tourniquet, you can still put it in there.
Speaker C:But maybe you're not the one applying the tourniquet.
Speaker C:But I know I can hand it off to you and say, hey, can you apply this?
Speaker C:It's having all those pieces that you feel would be necessary for whatever you're going to do, whether or not that's holding calories for you in case you become hungry.
Speaker A:A.
Speaker C:What was that?
Speaker B:Horrible.
Speaker C:There was a horrible like snowstorm in Buffalo like a year or two ago where people were like freezing in their.
Speaker B:Cars, like minutes from their home.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And like just little things like that where you can bring, you can have that heat blanket, you know that tin foil looking, things like that that you never think about again.
Speaker C:I mean, I have things in my bag that I just never think about.
Speaker C:And one day if I need them, I need them.
Speaker C:And that's awesome.
Speaker C:That's where we kind of fall in with without looking like a big Tactical.
Speaker A:Type of thing and that you brought up a good point.
Speaker A:Because when I lived in Cincinnati, we used to get big snowstorms every once in a while.
Speaker A:And I had everything in my bag.
Speaker A:I had the little blanket, I had emergency light, flashlight, the well, emergency glow stick, flashlight, emergency, you know, water.
Speaker A:And my bail fang was in there and everything.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just having the knowing that that's there in that front and that's the other thing.
Speaker A:Like that front pocket on the gamut is you can pull it back and it's got velcro attachments and everything like that, but you can close it right up.
Speaker A:It just looks like a normal backpack again.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:A lot of people forget that you can pull that panel down, stuff it in the hidden pocket, and now you have a tactical looking bag too, if that's your jam.
Speaker A:Right there was my patch wallet shot.
Speaker A:Show people.
Speaker A:I had that covered with patches.
Speaker A:People are like, hey, where'd you get that from?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we love our patches.
Speaker A:Whole nother thing.
Speaker A:Oh, don't even get me started on patches.
Speaker C:Do we get a patch today or.
Speaker A:No, I don't have any with.
Speaker C:I'm out of here.
Speaker B:We're gone.
Speaker C:Let's go.
Speaker C:I didn't know that we only came for patches.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean, you haven't seen my patch wall.
Speaker C:I can't wait.
Speaker A:My patch wall is a 10 foot by 10 foot wall right now.
Speaker A:Filled.
Speaker B:Epic.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's epic.
Speaker A:It's my backdrop for when I do like podcasts at home and things like that.
Speaker A:People are like, what?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:Distracting.
Speaker A:Oh, they're like, oh, I see that one.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's cool to have the multi function of the vertex bag.
Speaker A:And you know, we talk about, you know, preparedness, but it doesn't have to always be like that prepper mentality.
Speaker A:It could be just being prepared with the simplest.
Speaker B:You know, being prepared is sometimes as simple as just being self sufficient as you can.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, you know, you've heard it before.
Speaker B:No one's coming to save you.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like go about life with that mentality.
Speaker B:Nobody's coming to save you, John.
Speaker B:Like you be.
Speaker B:You be ready.
Speaker A:No, not at all.
Speaker A:I mean, we have a, an idiot law in, in Arizona.
Speaker A:Have you heard about this?
Speaker C:I've heard a lot of.
Speaker C:Yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker C:Let's go.
Speaker A:So Arizona, if you walk.
Speaker A:So all the washes are marked, right?
Speaker A:They're marked.
Speaker A:Like this is a wash. Do not walk down it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Arizona has an idiot law that if you go down A wash and you get washed away in a flesh flood.
Speaker A:You are sol.
Speaker A:Like that's it.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, no, we're not zoo.
Speaker A:You knew.
Speaker B:We told you this was a wash. Do not we told you.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean the same thing.
Speaker A:Like just no one's going to come up.
Speaker A:We go out.
Speaker A:We didn't go out this weekend.
Speaker A:We got to go out to Humphreys and up towards Flag.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of off roading trails and being self sufficient on the off roading trails is a big thing.
Speaker B:Necessity, right?
Speaker A:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's one of those things where like that's where those super uber overlanding rigs come into place.
Speaker A:And I do not have one of those.
Speaker A:But I, I know somebody who does.
Speaker A:So yeah, he's had to save Mike Mills.
Speaker A:The barbie drape.
Speaker A:Saved you.
Speaker A:Mills.
Speaker A:I hope you're listening to this.
Speaker B:Let's at least send him this clip.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's that in fact that it's interesting.
Speaker B:That whole overlanding crowd, big Vertex fans, for whatever reason, I shouldn't say for whatever reason.
Speaker B:We have a couple of big overlanding influencers.
Speaker B:Talon and.
Speaker C:Mike Pfeiffer from Last Line of Defense.
Speaker B:Last Line of Defense and Talon side.
Speaker B:I think both of those guys found our product organically and were wearing it and talking about it and we'd see this spike.
Speaker B:And then we've got a really sharp guy named Dan who manages those relationships.
Speaker B:He's just good friends with them.
Speaker B:And that's introduced us to people that are, I'd say adjacent to but not like in the heart of the 2A community.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But I mean if you look at a Venn diagram of overlanders and 2A people, it' there's a lot of overlap.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the thing I was.
Speaker A:John Patton brought this up.
Speaker A:He's like, why is more gun companies not looking or accessory companies looking into the overlanding space?
Speaker A:Because it is a, it is a big overlap.
Speaker A:Not all of it.
Speaker B:They either carry or at least their, their understanding.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, they're Pro2A generally.
Speaker A:Generally they're protein.
Speaker A:There's some like, you know, Oregon and Washington.
Speaker B:And I got to say we're, we're pretty in your face about our 2A stance with our products because of that there is a small subset of just kind of general outdoors overlanding, whatever that that is not.
Speaker B:We want them to know on day one that you're.
Speaker B:We're probably not for you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So don't waste your time with us.
Speaker B:We won't waste Our time with you.
Speaker A:But that's one of those markets that I feel like for the two A community to.
Speaker A:We always talk about the on ramp to get more people into the 2A community.
Speaker A:On this podcast we talk about how to get more people in.
Speaker A:Overlanding is a great space to start getting people in because you're, you're out there in the middle of nowhere and I, I've, I haven't run into anything.
Speaker A:But Kurt, you know, you guys know Kurt, he's run into rattlesnakes and things like that.
Speaker A:I mean just having a snake gun or a bear gun or the tool.
Speaker C:For the job, whatever the tool for the job is.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's, that's a big thing that you have to think about when you're overland.
Speaker A:You're out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker A:You don'.
Speaker A:You don't know who might roll up on you or what might roll up on you.
Speaker A:Being two legged or four legged or slithering or flying.
Speaker B:I think there are some.
Speaker C:What is that?
Speaker C:Skinwalker Ranch?
Speaker B:I think there's some similarities in what you just described that, that two a person generally I would say is self sufficiency is important.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I'm independent, I'm self sufficient.
Speaker B:I'm not, not necessarily looking for you to come and save me.
Speaker B:I just leave me alone and let me have what, what was promised to me.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And those overlanding same, you know, I mean overlanding, you're right, some of those rigs are insane.
Speaker B:It's the most overlanding defined, I think is something like the, the most expensive way to get from point A to point B.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But, but the reason is because they know, okay, once I leave this road and go from here to there, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm on my own, I'm self sufficient.
Speaker A:Well, that was the.
Speaker A:We took a trip up to go see Sean for his birthday.
Speaker A:We went up to Colorado and we're driving through New Mexico and the GPS took us through show low into New Mexico and we're on the res and there's nothing, absolutely nothing for miles.
Speaker A:We were like, okay, we gotta find a gas station, let's find.
Speaker A:We came up, literally, we thought we were on Skinwalker ranch.
Speaker A:It was like the creepiest thing that ever happened.
Speaker A:We were driving.
Speaker A:It's pitch black.
Speaker A:It's 11 o' clock at night.
Speaker A:Pitch black in the middle of the dark New Mexico desert.
Speaker A:Dark, dark.
Speaker A:And look over to our right or no, to our left and go, hey look, there's a town over there.
Speaker A:No, it was the moon.
Speaker A:It was like coming up like harvest moon, bright yellow.
Speaker A:And we're like, oh, great.
Speaker A:We're gonna, we're all like, okay, so I've seen this movie.
Speaker A:This is going here and that's going there.
Speaker A:They've got my, my little vertex bag with everything ready to go.
Speaker A:But no, like, we, we were worried we were gonna run out of gas.
Speaker A:And Kurt had four gallons sitting on the side of his jeep in case we ran out of.
Speaker A:He's like, do we tap into the reserves?
Speaker A:I'm like, we might have to tap into these reserves because it's like, hopefully that 4 gallons can get us somewhere, but we're in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker B:Buy you a couple more hours, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, maybe with that rig in my bias, a couple more minutes.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's great.
Speaker A:It's one of those things.
Speaker A:Like, you're right.
Speaker A:As you know, overlanding is very expensive.
Speaker A:And I'm now just getting into the hobby.
Speaker A:I got my, my truck now and getting started to get it set up.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh my God, this is, this is.
Speaker A:Why do I pick.
Speaker A:Why do we pick such expensive hobbies as 2A people?
Speaker A:You know, 2A's expensive.
Speaker A:Then we're probably into one of three things.
Speaker A:Either we're into overlanding cigars or bourbon on top of of guns.
Speaker A:And now it's like, okay, well which one do I want to spend?
Speaker A:Or you're into all four.
Speaker C:And then there's hunting.
Speaker A:There's hunting.
Speaker C:The hunter spent some serious dollars.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's.
Speaker C:It's, it's expensive.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:The overlanding thing can get really expensive because you really decide what you need.
Speaker C:You know, you could set up a shower if you need to.
Speaker C:You could set up all these different things.
Speaker A:Don't get me started.
Speaker C:I know, I know.
Speaker A:Showers and toilets.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, oh, man, what a rooftop tent.
Speaker A:I'm like, wow, you bougie over here.
Speaker A:I'm like, I just want my hammock.
Speaker A:Maybe a tent.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the gateway drug though.
Speaker B:You get, you get started, you'll be him in the next three years.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Getting that's all rig set up.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, so how much is the lift and tires and.
Speaker A:Oh, oh, all right, well, we'll see if we gotta take this thing off first and then we'll figure this rest out.
Speaker A:But it's just one of those things.
Speaker A:It's like the vertex.
Speaker A:Vertex is synonymous with the bags being this EDC carry thing, but it is multi purpose.
Speaker B:It's not just, you know, even the the fanny pack that you're talking about has a little overflow pouch.
Speaker B:This is something that's not on the hang tag and.
Speaker B:And not on the website.
Speaker B:It's one of those if, you know, you know, she's got a little overflow pouch where it's pretty clear.
Speaker B:Okay, this is where I put my pe.
Speaker B:Here's a little extra zip pouch where I can dump a roll of quarters.
Speaker B:If you really look close at that now, I can.
Speaker B:I can wrap this Velcro around it, and I can hold the pens like a.
Speaker B:Like a handle, and I have a roll of quarters on the other end.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's a defensive weapon.
Speaker B:If I'm out walking the dog and the kid around the block, that's something.
Speaker A:And that's a big thing.
Speaker A:You know, always being prepared is one of those things where we as.
Speaker A:As 2A people, we.
Speaker A:We always have this mindset of.
Speaker A:Of knowing our situational awareness.
Speaker A:And I'll tell this story.
Speaker A:I'll embarrass my wife.
Speaker A:I love her to death, but she is not the most situational awareness person.
Speaker B:Does she listen to the podcast?
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker B:We're gonna find out.
Speaker A:We'll find out.
Speaker A:But we were here in Myrtle, and it was Kaylee and I, and she came into town to hang out with us for the couple days, and we're walking from the parking garage to the hotel, and there's some people who are, like, acting kind of shady.
Speaker A:And I look at Kaylee, and we have the same thing, like, okay, let's get it.
Speaker A:And my wife is just like, oh, wow, this is Myrtle Beach.
Speaker A:I'm like, get behind me, please.
Speaker A:Like, awareness.
Speaker A:But it's just that mentality that we've come to grow.
Speaker A:I mean, it comes with training, comes with tactics classes, things like that.
Speaker A:That mentality of being aware of your surroundings.
Speaker A:And, you know, I'll make fun of myself because I was not aware of my surroundings.
Speaker A:We were.
Speaker A:We were in Knoxville filming the podcast, and we're getting ready to leave to go to dinner, and I'm like, oh, I forgot the keys to the car in the house.
Speaker A:So go in the house.
Speaker A:I grabbed the keys, get back out, lock the door.
Speaker A:I'm coming down the steps, and I turn the corner to walk to the car, and I'm.
Speaker A:I'm checking an email on my phone, and Ben, who works here at Forge, goes, john, turn around.
Speaker A:What do you mean, turn around?
Speaker A:Turn around.
Speaker A:There's three baby bears behind me.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, okay.
Speaker A:Hi, guys.
Speaker A:Where's Mama?
Speaker A:I'm gonna Walk real slowly to the car.
Speaker A:And we're gonna get in the car, we're gonna leave.
Speaker A:Because I'm not dealing with angry mama.
Speaker A:But it's simple.
Speaker A:Things like that.
Speaker A:I was checking an email while walking down the steps.
Speaker B:Dude, everybody does get on.
Speaker B:The next time you fly and you get on the shuttle to your rental car, don't pull your phone out and look around.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And you're going to realize, oh, I'm the only one besides maybe the bus driver who's paying attention.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Looking around.
Speaker A:That's another.
Speaker A:The airport look.
Speaker A:People situated people at the.
Speaker A:If you're at the airport and you don't have anywhere to be, like, make space.
Speaker A:Like, come on.
Speaker A:I've run across the Charlotte airport more than I'd like to say.
Speaker A:I think I said I set a new record last time.
Speaker A:I got across from terminal E to a in, like, 10 minutes, which is a big accomplishment for my big butt to move that fast through the airport.
Speaker A:But just the people just.
Speaker A:I'm just walking them.
Speaker A:Get out of the way.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker C:Yeah, I like the instructions on the walkway.
Speaker C:Things that are like, stand right, walk left.
Speaker C:I'm like, who's standing on these flat walkways?
Speaker C:Like, you got to keep moving.
Speaker C:It makes me insane.
Speaker C:So many people makes me insane.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:It's back to the situational awareness and knowing, you know, knowing your surroundings.
Speaker C:And it can be brought to an extreme level, though.
Speaker C:We've all seen it.
Speaker C:People in this industry that do take it to an extreme level when it comes to prep and awareness and all these things that, you know, I still want to live my life.
Speaker C:I still want to be able to let my guard down a little bit and have.
Speaker C:And have some fun or.
Speaker C:Or whatever it might be.
Speaker C:But there's just some simple things.
Speaker C:Like you said, I mean, sitting at the airport.
Speaker C:Why am I going to choose sitting in a spot with my back to where everybody's walking when I can choose a spot with my back to a wall and I can see the walkway.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, often it's bad experiences that give us learnings.
Speaker B:I feel like maybe we've gotten a little bit complacent.
Speaker B:I remember a couple years ago when all the cities were burning, I think that's when a lot of people started thinking about maybe I should be prepared differently.
Speaker B:Maybe I should.
Speaker B:I mean, we saw.
Speaker B:We saw a spike in gun ownership.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:You've seen steady inclines in membership.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:And let me plug that.
Speaker B:If you haven't.
Speaker B:If you haven't done it yet.
Speaker B:I don't know if Everybody knows it's 25 bucks.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, it's 25 bucks.
Speaker A:We were just talking about.
Speaker A:Our average donation is 25 to $20 a year from a person.
Speaker A:That's the average donation.
Speaker A:I mean you can't even go to McDonald's for $25.
Speaker A:Like come on, we had sandwiches for.
Speaker B:Lunch and it was 50 bucks.
Speaker A:It's getting insane.
Speaker B:I gladly skip lunch to join GOA for a year.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, and if you join goa, you get into goals for free.
Speaker A:We got those little posters sitting up over here, but it's one of those things.
Speaker A:So you're right.
Speaker A:Takes something happening for you to up your situational awareness.
Speaker A:And we did see a huge spike in gun ownership over those Covid years.
Speaker B:And kind of expected more of that by now with the run up to an election.
Speaker A:That's the weird thing I've been talking to people.
Speaker A:It's one of those things.
Speaker A:I think what it is, and this is, this is John speaking, It's anything under $400 is, is moving really well.
Speaker A:Everybody I Talked to, it's 400 bucks and under is moving really well.
Speaker A:Which we're seeing a huge.
Speaker B:So inflation is kind of factored into.
Speaker A:Things but we're seeing a huge spike in those price points too.
Speaker A:There's a lot more products coming out in that price point that are really well built and we don't, we didn't, we didn't have that.
Speaker A:I mean it was.
Speaker A:And not to bash on any companies but when I was getting into this beginning like that 400 price range, you had Taurus, you had High Point, you had some of the offerings from the importers like Canik and EAA and all good friends of ours.
Speaker A:But now you've got the, the quality of some of those have just spiked and have gone way up.
Speaker A:And it's, it's great to see that, that, that that price point is driving and we're seeing more value driven guns out there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And some of those brands that you mentioned specifically, the quality is really unmatched for not just for the price but just for the market as a whole.
Speaker C:I mean you look across a lot of brands that are what we would consider premium and they're premium for their reasons.
Speaker C:But even when you mention a Taurus or a High Point, I'll focus on High Point.
Speaker C:What an amazing company that is to put firearms in the hands of people that wouldn't necessarily have access to something.
Speaker C:And now because of their success as they're driving up their own quality and making sure that people have access to that to protect their families or whatever.
Speaker C:Whatever they're going to use that tool for most of the time protecting their families.
Speaker B:I'm glad you said that.
Speaker B:I always felt really strongly about.
Speaker B:Don't, don't make somebody feel bad about this inexpensive firearm that they, this first inexpensive firearm they purchased that if that's their option, good for them, you know.
Speaker A:Well, that was a big thing.
Speaker A:I mean we, for years it was always like and I, and I even I remember this is like I would buy like a inexpensive firearm and people oh, why would you buy that?
Speaker A:That's a piece of garbage.
Speaker A:I'm buying a gun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like come on.
Speaker A:Like I'm getting into this hobby.
Speaker A:I'm getting into 2A space.
Speaker B:Probably not going to be my last one.
Speaker A:It's not going to be my last one.
Speaker A:And, and like you said, the good on you for taking your self protection in your hand.
Speaker A:It could be like my story when my first gun was a $99 Mosin Nagant or like Kaylee story who she bought a Bursa Thunder off the clearance rack.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's one of those things like yeah, you, you may buy a gun for, for low because that's all you can afford.
Speaker A:I'd rather afford a $300 gun knowing that I have a hundred dollars to spend on ammo and training and extras or I could blow the whole wad and then just sit there with a handheld device that does nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The training, the training is the big one too.
Speaker B:And we've seen people with, with more resources in the last couple years getting into it and they're maybe their, maybe their first one is a staccato and but we're all, we're all part of the same team, man.
Speaker B:You know, let's, let's support each other.
Speaker B:This is, this is, it's a right.
Speaker A:Oh yeah it is.
Speaker A:It's a right.
Speaker A:And you know, if you got into it and hopefully there's people listening to this.
Speaker A:If you got into this during COVID and then you saw all this stuff that could happen, now it's time to start voting the same way.
Speaker A:We gotta preserve these rights.
Speaker A:We gotta protect this right.
Speaker A:We've seen, we've got.
Speaker A:I want to say it's 29 constitutional carry states now.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:With South Carolina being the latest.
Speaker B:Congratulations.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good job.
Speaker A:South Carolina.
Speaker A:Now is it, it's.
Speaker A:The South Carolina bill is not perfect.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because they're all different depending.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a, it's one of those things like we Go in and we, we fight and we get, we get flack for it a lot.
Speaker A:Like there are people who comment on our stuff, like, oh, you guys didn't support the constitutional carry bill in Michigan?
Speaker A:Well, yeah, it was littered with red flag laws.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like we can't support.
Speaker A:Yes, you're getting your A.
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker A:You're getting a win.
Speaker A:But also like, look at all these losses.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Losing true precedent are you setting also.
Speaker B:I'm glad you brought that up because yeah, we, we do have an election coming up and, and this isn't the time and place to get political.
Speaker B:But there's one, one thing I would say is a lot of people disagree with this, but I personally, I think we're strong enough to survive four years of either of the two likely candidates.
Speaker B:But here's something I want people to think about, is, you know, the Second Amendment, 27 words.
Speaker B:We, we, we all think we know what it says.
Speaker B:It's nothing more than the Supreme Court says it is.
Speaker B:That's what I want people to think about.
Speaker B:So the Supreme Court interprets what that means.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:What is, what's a well regulated militia?
Speaker B:What is, what is the people?
Speaker B:Is it all the people?
Speaker B:Is it some of the people.
Speaker B:They interpret that.
Speaker B:The Supreme Court gets appointed by whoever's in that executive seat.
Speaker B:They're appointed for life.
Speaker B:So again, I'm not telling you who I'm voting for.
Speaker B:I don't care who you're voting for.
Speaker B:But that's something I would ask you to pause and think about is the Supreme Court is something you need to consider when it comes to your second Amendment rights.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, we've gotten some big wins in the last few years through the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:You know, you've got Bruin, you've got a number of wins.
Speaker A:We've got a bump stock case.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're still talking, we're still talking about bump stock.
Speaker B:War on plastics.
Speaker A:War on.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:The war on plastic.
Speaker A: stocks that came down, what,: Speaker A:It's almost been 10 years since the bump stock.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, think about how.
Speaker A:And a lot of people are like, well, you're, you're fighting and you're doing.
Speaker A:These fights and lawsuits take time.
Speaker A:The legal president to set things takes a lot of time.
Speaker B:They take time and money.
Speaker B:And I, I don't, I don't have the time and I don't have the money to fight it.
Speaker B:And I appreciate goa doing it.
Speaker B:That's why that, you know that 25 bucks plus the donation, man, that's the, that's the best money you can spend.
Speaker B:If you haven't done it, go do it before you finish the podcast.
Speaker A:See, I don't even have to say it.
Speaker C:He's good, isn't.
Speaker A:He's really good.
Speaker A:You know, you just put him in a sales role somewhere.
Speaker B:Huh.
Speaker B:I never really saw myself in sales, but you think about that.
Speaker A:Well, and that's, and that's the thing.
Speaker A:Like, it is.
Speaker A:We touched on it.
Speaker A:You know, you guys spend 50 bucks on sandwiches to get lunch.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It's when they'll eat at home one day and you can afford a membership to joa.
Speaker A:And it gets you so many benefits.
Speaker A:I mean, you're protected under.
Speaker A:Whenever we get a new.
Speaker A:A new stay or our protection for our members, you guys are protected under that.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:And I can sit back and listen to your, Your press releases, hear your news, and feel like, yeah, I helped.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, well, that's the thing.
Speaker A:We are constantly fighting.
Speaker A:We're constantly.
Speaker A:I mean, we just got the, the temporary restraining order in Texas for the ATF's new rule on doing business.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, that's small as, like, hey, I made a profit on the gun I bought, which is an asset, and now I'm considering an FFL because I made a profit, like, with this, this nonsense and things like that.
Speaker A:I mean, we, we talk about, you know, all these attacks and things like that, but we're constantly in the fight.
Speaker A:We did the, like, what you said, the war on plastic.
Speaker A:We've got the, the pistol brace and then the, the.
Speaker A:We're fighting the bump stock and, you know, the, the frame and receiver rule and all this other stuff, eventually it'll.
Speaker C:Be fighting calibers or fighting colors and things.
Speaker C:I mean, if you let people, you know, go with, with what they want to ban, what they want to take away, what they want to limit.
Speaker C:People take as much as, like, as they can and as much as people will let them.
Speaker C:I am not, you know, I don't have the protest gene in me.
Speaker C:It's not that there's something wrong with that, but it's just not who I am.
Speaker C:So for me to donate my money to an organization to take care of arguing on my behalf or protesting on my behalf, it's fantastic.
Speaker C:I just, I just do the donation and then I'm done and over with.
Speaker B:That's an interesting point too, that, that kind of, that guard the gate mentality I might have and did grew up.
Speaker B:I think I had a Gun before I had a bicycle, grew up hunting, right.
Speaker B:That was my, my life.
Speaker B:ARs, pistols, not part of my life until, you know, much later I can see how someone might say, you know, why does anybody need an ar?
Speaker B:You know, I'm a hunter.
Speaker B:I don't need, I don't need, I don't need, I don't need 30 rounds.
Speaker B:So why do I care if you're going to regulate that?
Speaker B:Well, because that's not where it stops.
Speaker B:That's not where it stops.
Speaker B:When you start putting language and restrictions around that second amendment, that noose just continues to tighten.
Speaker B:So guard the gate.
Speaker B:If you don't care about those things, you need to care about them because your thing is next.
Speaker A:Well, I think you brought up a great point.
Speaker A:As a silent majority, as we are as conservatives, we are very non confrontational.
Speaker A:We are very like, that's why we.
Speaker B:Carry backpacks that don't stand out.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:We are there to like, we've got that like protect ourselves mentality but we're very non confrontational.
Speaker B:Not trying to have a conversation.
Speaker B:You're not wearing your GOA shirt on.
Speaker A:Airplanes normally probably I've had that, I had two, you know.
Speaker B:Well, you probably are, but I might not.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the thing, like I've been on and that's gonna sound bad but I've been on planes and my goal of being on a plane is get from point A to point B.
Speaker A:And normally that's from point A is somewhere where I've been for a week.
Speaker A:And point B is home.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the, the one flight we were flying home, I got stuck in a middle seat between a clearly very flaming liberals flaming like and I'm sitting there, I'm like great.
Speaker A:I just want to be quiet.
Speaker B:Wait till I find out what I.
Speaker A:Headphones on and they're like, so what, what do you do for a living?
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, I work for a non profit.
Speaker A:Like oh, what do you do?
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm in human rights.
Speaker A:I fight for human rights.
Speaker B:And they're like never been spoken.
Speaker A:And they're like oh really?
Speaker A:I'm like yeah, I fight for all the amendments.
Speaker A:And they're like oh, okay, yeah, well all the amendments.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, human rights.
Speaker A:And it's not that I'm embarrassed for who I work for.
Speaker A:I just want to get from point a point.
Speaker B:You're not going to change their mind on a flight.
Speaker B:You might change their mind when, you know, when, when things go south and they need, they need somebody to help them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You're there.
Speaker B:You're there to.
Speaker B:You're there to protect them, even though clearly you're on different teams.
Speaker A:Well, and also, I don't want to get.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:If traveling from west coast to east coast is a very long day, and being kicked off of a flight on the way home is not my idea of having fun, because they start screaming, and I just sit there.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm already on enough list.
Speaker A:I get patted down every time.
Speaker A:There's a guy in Phoenix who pats me down every time.
Speaker C:They're waiting for you to make that mistake.
Speaker A:That does sound personal.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's.
Speaker A:It's one of those.
Speaker B:You're married.
Speaker A:I wear my wedding band every time I go through the airport.
Speaker A:I hope so.
Speaker A:But it's like, even I think.
Speaker A:I think the.
Speaker A:The reason why I'm on a list, I was.
Speaker A:We go to shows, we get a lot of cool swag.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of my cool swag was from our friends over at Century Arms.
Speaker A:It was a USB drive that was shaped like a cannon.
Speaker B:Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker A:And, yeah, it may have not crossed my mind just to toss in my.
Speaker A:I'm like, cool, I need a usb.
Speaker B:Boom, boom.
Speaker A:Throw it in my bag.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They got the guy, pulled me aside.
Speaker A:He goes, hey, what's in your bag?
Speaker A:There's nothing.
Speaker A:I triple checked my bag.
Speaker A:There's nothing in my bag.
Speaker A:He goes, what's in this front pocket?
Speaker A:I'm like, my USB drive.
Speaker A:He goes, your USB drive?
Speaker A:Yeah, my USB drive.
Speaker A:He opens up, he goes, next time, pick a different USB drive.
Speaker A:Oh, I didn't think about it.
Speaker A:It's just a usb.
Speaker A:It's a cool piece of swag.
Speaker A:I was like, I work in the gun industry.
Speaker A:This is what I do.
Speaker A:Here's my card.
Speaker A:My bad.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker A:Well, the same thing we got.
Speaker A:We got.
Speaker A:Kurt tells the story.
Speaker A:We got stopped when we were at fax, and one of the guys had a trigger in his bag at their shot show.
Speaker A:And luckily, we were all wearing Faxton shirts.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the cops and waved us through.
Speaker A:And he's like, oh, you guys work for fax?
Speaker A:And we're like, here's our car.
Speaker B:It's crisis averted.
Speaker A:But that's.
Speaker A:It's the small things you don't even think about.
Speaker A:Like, one of the guys got stopped with wrenches.
Speaker A:It just wrenches in this bag stuff to set up the booth.
Speaker A:Little, you know, little tiny version.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Taken away right away at cvg.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's crazy because being I wear a lot of.
Speaker A:Because being in the industry for a long time, you know, I have a closet full of just gun.
Speaker A:Gun shirt.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I wear like my favorite one.
Speaker A:I wear my Langdon Tactical.
Speaker A:It says ldna.
Speaker A:It's DNA strand across the front of it.
Speaker A:And the lady stopped me and I said, oh, that's a great shirt.
Speaker A:I really like the shirt.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah.
Speaker A:She like, where'd you get it?
Speaker A:Go to Langdon Tactical.
Speaker A:She's like, langdon Tactical, what do they do?
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, you can find out when you get to their website.
Speaker A:You can order it straight from them.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:Like I, I try to wear like shirts that don't stand out, but sometimes I wear my GOA shirt or where I've got my GOA hat and I, sometimes the people are like, hey, I know.
Speaker A:You know, oh, thank you.
Speaker A:And sometimes people give you the dirty look and I'm just like, you don't like me, but you don't know me.
Speaker A:So we can have a conversation.
Speaker A:And I think that's another thing that we, we miss out as a culture as of lately.
Speaker A:The conversation, the ability to actually talk and have.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's all gone digital.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's easy to be a tough guy online that sit down face to face understanding somebody's almost thing of the past.
Speaker A:Oh, I love, I love our YouTube comments.
Speaker A:I comment back sometimes just like, oh, thank you.
Speaker A:Somebody wouldn't.
Speaker A:I was at another company.
Speaker B:You read the comments?
Speaker A:Oh yeah, you're not supposed to, but somebody said the one time I was at a another company, I did a YouTube video like, oh, you need to lose weight.
Speaker A:I'm like, cool, you want to come train with me?
Speaker A:Let's go crickets.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, so you don't like my positivity?
Speaker A:You just wanted me to get angry?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's go, let's go do this or let's go do that and just.
Speaker A:Yeah, fine.
Speaker A:If you think I'm doing something wrong, come teach me.
Speaker A:If you think you, you know better, let's go do it.
Speaker A:And that's, that's a, a big thing.
Speaker A:Like the same thing with dealing with people on airplanes.
Speaker A:It's just like, okay, cool.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:Good way to avoid the conversation about what is on your shirt is, is just wear a vertex shirt.
Speaker C:You know we fully tactical, obviously our T shirts are not tactical, it's just a T shirt.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean we don't really have anything with a gun on it.
Speaker C:Normal looking plaids and things like that.
Speaker B:That have that you've experienced it now that you've had vertex bag for years, you'll see another guy with a vertex bag and just kind of like, you nod.
Speaker B:Nod.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Jeep wave.
Speaker C:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It's no Jeep wave.
Speaker C:It's the vertex nod.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker B:Let me.
Speaker B:Can we edit that?
Speaker B:I don't want to be associated with the jeep wave or vertex nod or whatever we just did there.
Speaker A:It's a thing now.
Speaker A:Hashtag.
Speaker A:Hashtag vertex.
Speaker C:All right, I'll be looking for you.
Speaker B:We did something terrible today.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:I started wearing.
Speaker A:When I go through the airport, I started wearing a buck.
Speaker A:I got a Bucky's hoodie when I went to Bucky's, and I was like, cool, I'm just gonna wear this.
Speaker A:No one's gonna say it.
Speaker A:Everyone, Everyone.
Speaker A:Everyone.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:It's bu.
Speaker B:They want to talk about the bathrooms and the brisket.
Speaker A:I just want to get through the airport.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker A:Thanks.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's weird.
Speaker A:Traveling as much as I do and as much as you guys do.
Speaker A:You've seen it all.
Speaker A:I watched a fight in Dallas last night.
Speaker B:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, I haven't seen a good airport fight.
Speaker C:Was there a winner?
Speaker A:Oh, clearly there was a loser.
Speaker A:Yeah, getting escorted off was clearly the loser.
Speaker C:What a loser.
Speaker B:Closest I, a year ago, almost saw one in Phoenix.
Speaker B:But the guy.
Speaker B:The guy trying to escalate it was clearly going to get his ass kicked.
Speaker B:The other guy had, you know, the cauliflower ears.
Speaker B:He was like, he wasn't going to engage.
Speaker B:If he did, this guy was going to be choked out in a matter of seconds.
Speaker A:So it's not worth it.
Speaker C:Sometimes I sit at the back of Southwest flights just to see the fights, you know, just because those are the last seats that are really getting taken.
Speaker C:And there's always some guy who's like, I don't sit in a middle seat.
Speaker C:And then they get into, like, a brawl.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker C:It's fun.
Speaker C:Especially coming from Florida.
Speaker C:There's always a fight.
Speaker A:It's a heat.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It's the same thing with Arizona.
Speaker A:It's a heat.
Speaker A:It just cuts your brain.
Speaker A:I mean, we're being slow.
Speaker A:Somebody said it best the other day.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, yeah, it gets up to 120 in Phoenix.
Speaker A:They're like, how.
Speaker A:What temperature does things start?
Speaker A:Slow cooking.
Speaker A:120.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we're being slow cooked.
Speaker A:Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker A:That Tracks.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You want a good brisket, set it at about 120.
Speaker B:Walk away.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker A:I've threatened for a while that I'm going to leave a frying pan outside for a couple hours, then come out and start cooking with it.
Speaker C:I used to try and do that when I was a kid.
Speaker C:Never worked, but I tried.
Speaker A:I've threatened to cook slow cook stuff.
Speaker A:My wife threatened to cook cookies in her car.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, okay, if you want to.
Speaker A:If you want to.
Speaker C:Like, you ever make those hot dog ovens with the tin foil and everything in class?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I remember doing that.
Speaker A:You're just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker B:I know what he's talking about, but I don't want to encourage it.
Speaker C:They didn't do that in Utah.
Speaker B:He'll do it.
Speaker B:He'll do it on the way to the hotel tonight if we let him.
Speaker C:So how.
Speaker C:Here's my question for you.
Speaker C:How'd you get into firearms?
Speaker C:What was what was what?
Speaker C:And you might have.
Speaker C:You might have talked about this in something else, but what is the moment that you turned into a.
Speaker C:Not necessarily even two way, just.
Speaker C:I like guns.
Speaker A:So growing up, it was.
Speaker A:It was a thing in the house.
Speaker A:Guns were a thing.
Speaker A:We would go.
Speaker A:We went hunting and things like that.
Speaker A:But the thing, when I went to college, went to a college in Ohio called the University of Akron.
Speaker C:Go Zips.
Speaker A:Go Zips.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was it.
Speaker A:I was a zip.
Speaker A:And then I was a golden flash after that.
Speaker A:So I went on both sides, state, yes.
Speaker A:Which is even weirder because that was super liberal.
Speaker A:But I went to the University of Akron and I was living off campus my second year and I wasn't home.
Speaker A:I got a phone call.
Speaker A:My cousin was living with me and she calls me and goes, there's blood on the door.
Speaker A:I go, what the.
Speaker A:There's blood on the door.
Speaker A:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:There's blood on there.
Speaker A:And some dude tried to break into our house and he headbutted the front door thing.
Speaker A:It was a good idea.
Speaker A:Then stumbled off the porch and went and fell asleep on the neighbor's porch.
Speaker A:But that was my moment.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, I'm getting some, like, not.
Speaker A:And then we.
Speaker A:We were attempted to broken into multiple times.
Speaker A:Like just living in Akron and being Akron, we had our house almost broken into.
Speaker A:And that was my.
Speaker A:My thing.
Speaker A:Like, okay, I'm gonna go get a gun.
Speaker A:And I bought A$99 most in account, which was not the best choice.
Speaker C:I like it.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:It's a start.
Speaker B:It's a start.
Speaker A:A start.
Speaker A:And then I still remember the first day I bought my first handgun.
Speaker A:I was at the store and all the cashiers were talking about something going on.
Speaker A:I'm like, what's going on?
Speaker A:It was Sandy Hook.
Speaker A:I was at the gun store that day.
Speaker A:I'm buying my Glock 17.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I got after that it just rabbit hole for.
Speaker A:I decided at that point I'm gonna get into.
Speaker A:I was working for a.
Speaker A:The time I was a manager at a game store.
Speaker A:Not like a video game, a board game store and calendar store.
Speaker C:You were?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's cool.
Speaker A:As a manager of this like Dungeons.
Speaker C:And Dragons type stuff.
Speaker A:Like, like magic, kitschy like board games.
Speaker C:Pokemon.
Speaker A:Not even Pokemon.
Speaker A:It was like one of those pop up stores that show up around Christmas time.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So not that cool actually.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Well, I had fun because I got to take games home.
Speaker A:I had all these game board games and at that point I'd say, you know what?
Speaker A:I really want to be in the gun industry.
Speaker A:So I worked for a company that no longer sells guns that begins with the letter D and ends with ick.
Speaker A:I worked for them for a while and that also when they pulled everything off their shelves.
Speaker A:So that was kind of like an eye opening.
Speaker B:Were you there then?
Speaker A:So I was like, really eye opening.
Speaker A:I'm like, you guys just pulled everything like our best sellers off the shelf.
Speaker A:What are you doing?
Speaker A:So I worked for them.
Speaker B:They all scrapped it all too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:It was awful.
Speaker C:Social contagion will get the best of them.
Speaker A:And they pulled out.
Speaker A:They, they don't.
Speaker A:Most of them don't even have hunting anymore.
Speaker A:It's camping stuff.
Speaker A:So then I worked for them and then I for then I still going to school.
Speaker A:I was like, you know what?
Speaker A:I need more money.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:Sounds great.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go work for Ford.
Speaker A:I sold cars.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And hated that job.
Speaker A:I was like, I really want to get back.
Speaker A:And I was working part time at the other store and then selling cars and I was like, you know, I hate this job.
Speaker A:Like I feel dirty.
Speaker A:I felt really dirty because I was like, I'm, I'm an honest person.
Speaker A:I'm like, I was getting good sales, but they were like, I would let one go and I get screamed at.
Speaker A:I'm like, like they weren't interested.
Speaker A:Well, you didn't offer them like, no, I'm not gonna keep them hostage.
Speaker A:They said, I want to go.
Speaker A:Okay, here's the door, let's go.
Speaker A:Like I was like, hey, call me, we'll talk.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker C:Next.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I felt really icky about that job.
Speaker A:Left that job, went back to working at X for a while and then worked for a, got a manager position at a another gun store that went out of big box store that went bankrupt about 10 months into that job.
Speaker A:That had a, had a goose and a mountain with it.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:Okay, so get did that.
Speaker A:Then when they, when I heard that they were filing bankruptcy, I got pinged on the Internet before they even told like my friends were sending me Internet articles before the company even said anything.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was like, hey guys, what's going on here?
Speaker A:Oh, no, we're good.
Speaker B:No, the Internet doesn't think so.
Speaker A:Yeah, so then I went and worked for a gun store in gun store and range in Columbus, Ohio called Aim High.
Speaker A:I worked there for almost three years, was their social media marketing guy, did all their stuff, decided that I really wanted to get into the, the industry side of the industry.
Speaker A:I want to get out from behind the counter, got the job at Faxon and then went on from there.
Speaker B:We've known you since then.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker A:It's one of those things like I found like you just said it like you've known me since then.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's one of those things like this is a tight.
Speaker A:We talk about it a lot.
Speaker A:These are.
Speaker A:It's a tight industry.
Speaker A:It is, it's a really tight industry.
Speaker A:And it's funny, like even now being on the, the non profit side, people calling me about legislation, but also still calling me about influencers because I was doing influencer marketing before this.
Speaker A:It was like, hey, it's always the same thing, always the same conversation.
Speaker A:Hey, do you know about so and so?
Speaker A:It's one of two ways, oh yeah, that guy's great.
Speaker A:Or no, not that guy.
Speaker A:This is what he did to me.
Speaker A:And it's a lot of people look at this industry from the outside looking in and they go, oh, this is such a large industry with, with so many companies.
Speaker A:But we all pretty much.
Speaker A:It's like, it's like the Kevin Bacon effect in the industry.
Speaker A:Like one person, like, I think I've.
Speaker B:Never talked to you about Mike Mills.
Speaker B:We both hung with Mike, but I.
Speaker A:Think I've called you a couple times about some people or hey, hey, I'm trying to get a hold of somebody at this company.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, here's my contact.
Speaker A:I'll make an intro.
Speaker A:Or hey, you go, somebody called me.
Speaker A:Hey, I need somebody at this company.
Speaker A:You gotta get contact.
Speaker A:Yeah, let me make an intro.
Speaker B:It's a very supportive industry.
Speaker B:And that's, that's one thing that I like and I frankly don't see enough of.
Speaker B:When I walk around shot show and I see, here's a little soapbox moment.
Speaker B:Feel free to edit this out.
Speaker B:But when I walk around shot show and I see dudes walking around wearing brands that actively campaign against your second amendment rights, I want to pull them aside and say, hey, that's a great, like, hoodie you got on there.
Speaker B:But, you know, they don't want you here.
Speaker B:They don't want any of us here.
Speaker A:Well, that's why I cut, I cut deals for Goa.
Speaker A:The show I was tired of.
Speaker A:Oh, and that's the thing.
Speaker A:Like, I, I wear comfy shoes.
Speaker A:You're at shot shows, your feet hurt.
Speaker A:People.
Speaker A:People are like, oh, I always want to go to shot show.
Speaker A:It's cool the first time.
Speaker A:After that, that's.
Speaker B:Who wants to go to shot show.
Speaker B:The guy that hasn't been yet.
Speaker A:Yeah, after that you're just like, ah, I gotta go to Vegas.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:My, My team and I, and I plot.
Speaker A:I got Vertex backpacks from.
Speaker A:From you to get all my team set up with the backpacks because I was tired of seeing Nike and all the other ones that.
Speaker A:And then I got Victo shoes for everybody.
Speaker A:And I was, you know, getting people set up and people were like, why are you doing this?
Speaker A:I'm like, because these are brands that support.
Speaker A:There are people.
Speaker A:I'd rather be a walking billboard for two people that support us than being wearing a billboard for somebody else.
Speaker B:1.
Speaker C:We all win together.
Speaker C:I mean, I'll say it.
Speaker C:If you're not going to buy a Vertex bag, go buy the bag from the other company that is still to a friendly stop.
Speaker C:Like, like Tony said, there are multiple brands that are carried at our industry.
Speaker C:Often that they're at the corporate level.
Speaker C:They're campaigning against your rights, my rights, all of our rights.
Speaker C:So spend your money within the industry.
Speaker C:You know, like you said, Victos, that's a great.
Speaker C:They took care of you guys with shoes.
Speaker C:That's fantastic.
Speaker C:That's a friend of the industry.
Speaker C:That is a part of the industry.
Speaker C:Do we compete with that here and there?
Speaker C:Yeah, we compete, but we're competing for the customer.
Speaker C:And we're, we're friends.
Speaker C:We're all together.
Speaker C:We don't dislike each other.
Speaker C:That other brand, whatever that other brand might be in the outdoor world or whatever, that's where we.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the funny part.
Speaker A:You say everyone thinks that we're Cutthroat.
Speaker A:Like, we all hate each other.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:When I was at Vex, I had friends at BA.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Friends at Roscoe.
Speaker A:Like, it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:We're all support.
Speaker A:Like Tony said, we're all supporting the 2A.
Speaker A:We're all friends.
Speaker A:We all hang out.
Speaker A:I mean, that Circle bar is I thing it is.
Speaker A:And we all hang out there.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You know, every.
Speaker A:We see this every about what, two years in our industry, the mass movement.
Speaker A:Yeah, Covid, it was a little bit more.
Speaker A:But normally it's every two years.
Speaker A:You see this mass move.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker A:So and so's at this company now.
Speaker A:So and so moved to this company.
Speaker A:But, yeah, that's your friend.
Speaker A:Even if they're.
Speaker A:I mean, I know people who are at the big.
Speaker A:One of the big four or five big gun companies.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They talk to everybody.
Speaker A:Or, hey, you bring up like, oh, hey, you work with so and so at this company.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, I love him.
Speaker A:He's great.
Speaker A:You know, if he says you're good, then that means you're good.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's one of those things where it's all word of mouth.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's one of the last industry where it's word of mouth handshakes where deals get done.
Speaker A:Like, I. I think I ran the.
Speaker A:Was it.
Speaker A:I think I called you in December.
Speaker A:I was like, hey, I need backpacks for.
Speaker A:For my team.
Speaker A:Done.
Speaker A:Pizza, cake, word of mouth.
Speaker A:What showed up at my house, Five boxes of backpacks.
Speaker A:I had to drive all the way to Vegas, but.
Speaker A:And then carry them all into the link and get the click.
Speaker A:What are you doing?
Speaker C:Your employees were happy, though?
Speaker A:Yeah, everybody was happy.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:Like, I'd rather have happy employees or happy, you know, teammates.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And have everybody good to go.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:This is one of those things where it's like a phone call, a handshake, a email, a text, a hey, how you doing?
Speaker A:Random.
Speaker A:Hey, you doing good?
Speaker A:How's things going?
Speaker A:How's the kids?
Speaker A:How the wife?
Speaker A:Like, we all know each other at some point.
Speaker A:Or you look at somebody like, I know you.
Speaker A:Like we had earlier.
Speaker B:Like, I took us a minute.
Speaker A:I know you.
Speaker A:I know you.
Speaker A:Where did we know each other?
Speaker C:It took an hour, by the way.
Speaker C:It was an hour for us to.
Speaker B:Realize, I think still, that's the thing.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's one of those things where, like, this is the.
Speaker A:The tightest knit group of people and you'll just run into people randomly like, hey, how you doing?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You were at, what, so and so, like, two years ago?
Speaker A:Yeah, so.
Speaker A:And that's great.
Speaker C:When people move from one company to another in this industry, we congratulate the company for.
Speaker C:For getting that employee rather than the employee getting the job at that company.
Speaker C:So, I mean, when you look at a major manufacturer and you're like, oh, wow, they got so and so.
Speaker C:It's like a.
Speaker C:A draft or an agency.
Speaker C:And it's true, though, you know, I can use.
Speaker C:A great example is Brett Voorhees at Taurus, the president of Taurus.
Speaker C:When Taurus got him, that was big, big news.
Speaker C:That is fantastic for the Taurus brand across the board.
Speaker C:Because of his experience with Walther and then everything else that he brings to the table.
Speaker C:Congratulations to Taurus for getting Brett Voorhees.
Speaker C:And that could be whatever other brand.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's how we operate within our industry.
Speaker A:It's the same thing with Cody.
Speaker A:Cody.
Speaker A:Os.
Speaker A:Cody was at.
Speaker A:Got over to Good job, Taurus.
Speaker A:You got Cody, and then he went back to Walther, and we're like, good job, Walter.
Speaker A:You got Cody back.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:And I. I text him, was like, hey, man, everything all right there?
Speaker C:He's like, oh, it's great.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:I wanted to go back to Walther because he likes Walther and he likes that brand and he likes sticking with that.
Speaker C:It's good job, Walther.
Speaker C:You did a great job there.
Speaker C:That crew.
Speaker C:That's a.
Speaker C:That's a crew right there.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it's the same thing.
Speaker A:Arrow and Donahue.
Speaker B:Yeah, man.
Speaker A:Donahue and Jameson, and he's a.
Speaker B:Both of those guys, Jack and.
Speaker B:And Ryan, force of nature, man.
Speaker A:They built their team again.
Speaker A:They started AOB together and they rebuilt the team over at Arrow.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:You see that, though?
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:It's like free agency.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You find out someone.
Speaker B:Those are good examples.
Speaker B:I know I could call either of those guys, and they can call me, and it's done.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:It's like free agency.
Speaker A:When every shot show, it's like free agency.
Speaker A:Hey, so you interested?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:And then you congratulate the good job way to build it.
Speaker A:And then they build their team, and then a couple years, maybe team moves on or they did their job.
Speaker A:And that's the thing we've seen.
Speaker A:Another great example is watching the growth.
Speaker A:You know, Springfield was a bit.
Speaker A:Was a.
Speaker A:Is a big name.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But seeing the growth of Springfield under my Conferees and that team on the marketing team, like, wow, absolutely.
Speaker A:And you congratulate, like, hey, way to grab the guys you needed.
Speaker C:Yeah, because it's people that run the companies.
Speaker C:I mean, that's the thing is, you know, in, in my former background when I was coaching, it had nothing to do with the, the name on the shirt or anything of that sort.
Speaker C:It was the people that were running that team.
Speaker C:So my players that played for me were, yeah, they were playing for the name on their shirt, the, the school name.
Speaker C:But realistically, it was the humans that make that up.
Speaker C:And if I, if we didn't have that all together, then we're nothing more than just a group of people with no common goals.
Speaker C:And the same thing translates to our, our companies, the companies we've worked for or will work for or do work for or anything like that.
Speaker C:That combination of people is what drives everything.
Speaker C:Everything is about your team.
Speaker C:And as you build it through free agency, as we'll call it, you build it.
Speaker C:And it's so funny.
Speaker C:It's the only industry that I know of that's like, congratulations to.
Speaker C:And you say a company's name, not the person that got the job.
Speaker B:Yeah, I hadn't put that together.
Speaker B:That's an interesting point.
Speaker A:It is like, it's.
Speaker A:You see, even in our industry, there are like a handful of big names.
Speaker A:Donahue is an example of that.
Speaker A:But when somebody gets one of those big names, like, you're like, I've known so and so for three companies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And when they get that name, you're like, oh, good job.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Like, you're over there again or you're over here again, or how, how's that going?
Speaker B:Or when we moved from the rep group to building our own team, I, I called Ryan about a couple of people and, and in just a few cents, in just a few words, I knew if I was on the right track or the wrong track.
Speaker A:And that's the way that's.
Speaker A:That just shows how close we actually are.
Speaker A:It's, it's.
Speaker A:And, and that's the same thing.
Speaker A:It's like, when I came over to Goa, it was funny because I don't think I've ever told this story, but Kaylee calls me and at that point I had said, you know, hey, you know, I think I'm gonna move on from where I was at.
Speaker A:I'm ready to go.
Speaker A:And she goes, are you interested in working for a non profit?
Speaker A:I was like, yeah.
Speaker B:Do I get paid?
Speaker A:Do I get paid?
Speaker A:Like, first off, is there a Paycheck.
Speaker A:And I said, yeah, I'm interested.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:And then I remember telling people, like, making that announcement, and people are like, wow.
Speaker A:You went over there like, good job on them.
Speaker A:Like, you.
Speaker A:You did this.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm a nobody.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:I did this?
Speaker A:Like, good on them.
Speaker A:They called me.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, let's go.
Speaker A:But it's the same.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:Like, people.
Speaker A:You see the.
Speaker A:These names of people moving around, and you're.
Speaker A:You're just like, wow.
Speaker A:Like, good job on doing this, or, wow.
Speaker A:Hey.
Speaker A:Like, another name that I like who's been a good friend is Justin Stewart, who's now at Tag Wow.
Speaker A:Tag Out Justin.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, good on them.
Speaker C:When it.
Speaker C:It kind of translates to that, to the tech world as well.
Speaker C:Except they're, you know, the tech world, the software companies, things like that.
Speaker C:There.
Speaker C:There's some brains there, and they, they trade employees all the time, and.
Speaker C:But they're competing for the same customer a lot of the time, whereas our industry, we're not really competing for the same customer always.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The customer knows maybe their price range, they know their use, whether or not it's a firearm, a backpack, a pair of pants, shoes, whatever.
Speaker C:They have a price range, they have a use.
Speaker C:And there's so many different avenues to get to whatever they end up buying that most of the time in our world, we.
Speaker C:I mean, we don't ever end up bashing anybody because we're not the same as anybody else.
Speaker C:So if somebody wants a vertex bag, they want a vertex bag.
Speaker C:If they want the other brand, they want the other brand.
Speaker C:They're not wrong for wanting that other brand.
Speaker C:Whereas you have a background in car sales and you know that, that tactic, I mean, you've seen that, and it's.
Speaker C:It's a dangerous, dangerous place to be bashing other companies.
Speaker B:Well, I think at the root of it, that's why we like Goa is, you know, you've heard the saying, a rising tide lifts all.
Speaker B:All ships, right?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The more we can prop our industry in general, whether it's somebody that Nash and I are competing with for shelf space or not.
Speaker B:We'll.
Speaker B:You'll see us, we'll go in there and we'll.
Speaker B:We'll merchandise our section and we'll probably make theirs look a little bit better too, because, you know, we.
Speaker B:We want people to come in, have a good experience, and just keep supporting our industry well.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:I remember being behind the.
Speaker A:The counter and you had your, you had your Glock guy, you had your sick guy, you had your Smith guy.
Speaker A:And then you had me, who likes everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And those guys would bash the other companies.
Speaker A:And then I was like, okay, well great.
Speaker A:Everybody bashes each other.
Speaker A:Get into the, get into the industry side, like the actual industry side of it.
Speaker A:And I learned very quickly, like, oh, no, you don't bash each other.
Speaker A:You make fun of each other.
Speaker A:Yeah, Bash each other like, oh, your products, awful.
Speaker A:Or you don't talk ill will of other people's products.
Speaker A:You just talk about like, hey, you know, Vertex has 439 stitches versus somebody else having 430.
Speaker A:That's a talking point.
Speaker A:That's not bashing.
Speaker C:No, no, it's not at all.
Speaker A:It's like cool.
Speaker A:Like, this is why we stand out.
Speaker A:Here's our features, our advantage and our benefits of this.
Speaker A:You can make your educated decision from there.
Speaker C:You go into a hardware store and there's going to be 10 brands of the same tool, the same wrench, and there's that one brand and then there's the yellow brand and then there's the blue brand and then there's the.
Speaker C:At the end of the day, you still need a wrench to walk away with.
Speaker C:Just make sure you leave with a wrench.
Speaker C:Like, don't walk out thinking to yourself, there's too many brands.
Speaker C:I don't know which one's the best.
Speaker C:If you just need a wrench for the day, go get a wrench for the day.
Speaker C:Same thing goes with bags or firearms or anything across our industry.
Speaker C:Except we.
Speaker C:From, from my perspective, I've never seen any bashing within our industry, which is so cool because I think we're all focused on the same thing, which is, you know, making sure our rights are protected, that we're, we're putting our money in the pockets of companies that support our.
Speaker C:Whether or not it's hobbies or just the basic idea of protecting our family, it's never.
Speaker A:With our industry.
Speaker A:It's never bashing the company.
Speaker A:It's always bashing somebody that reneged on their word.
Speaker A:Yeah, that, that's really what it is.
Speaker B:Word spreads fast.
Speaker A:It's not like, hey, I don't, I don't work with this company.
Speaker A:It's, I don't work with so and so because they did this.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's never like, oh, I, Yeah, it's.
Speaker C:Most of the time it's a customer service thing too.
Speaker C:I mean, that's the thing is, you know, companies that support their customer service teams to Fix any issues that they run into.
Speaker C:It's, it's huge.
Speaker C:And you see major manufacturers doing that all the time.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:We need to go back and fix this.
Speaker C:It's not about that.
Speaker C:They might have created something that needs a fixing.
Speaker C:It's, do they get it fixed and how do they go about doing that?
Speaker C:And that's, I mean, luckily with, with our brand, we don't, we don't run into that issue.
Speaker C:We don't have big moving parts.
Speaker C:We don't have that mechanical aspect of things.
Speaker C:But even down to our stitching, like, we don't, we don't run into issues.
Speaker C:I don't even know what, what is our warranty like?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I just, I replace it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Officially our warranty is one year manufacturer against manufacturers defects.
Speaker B:But everybody knows that our unofficial warranty is we're going to make it right.
Speaker B:We just, every one of our, of our major retailers will tell you, and I've told them all multiple times.
Speaker B:Somebody comes in with a vertex problem, fix it, and then tell me what you did and we got you covered.
Speaker B:Don't let them leave waiting for you to get an answer from me.
Speaker B:Just fix it.
Speaker C:And you see that on the firearm side now obviously they have something more, I don't know, dangerous to fix or something like that.
Speaker C:You know, if there's a mechanical issue.
Speaker C:But you see these companies going back and fixing the mistakes, and that's the only thing we can do as companies is what we have to learn from our mistakes.
Speaker C:We have to learn from things that, I don't know, need to be fixed.
Speaker C:We were talking about this on the way here.
Speaker C:Of, of just, you got to go out there and play the game no matter what.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter whether or not you're going to win, lose, whatever.
Speaker C:But if you do end up losing, find what you can fix to make yourself closer to not losing last next time or in turn winning.
Speaker C:And I always, I love the customer service talk because if you, if you own something and a brand takes care of you when something goes wrong, that's how you know you're with the right brand.
Speaker C:You know, optics, great example.
Speaker C:There's all sorts of optics that are out there.
Speaker C:There are certain companies that are, no questions, no nothing, just okay, we'll fix it.
Speaker C:And those are the companies that people should be investing in.
Speaker A:Oh, I 100 agree.
Speaker A:Well, I know we're running long.
Speaker B:Kind of ran over, didn't we?
Speaker A:But let's, let's start getting wrapped up first thing I want to talk about before we wrap up completely is Goals, and you guys were one of the first people to hop on.
Speaker B:We're in.
Speaker B:We've got a.
Speaker B:We've got a 10 by 20.
Speaker B:We're adjacent to Premier body armor, which gives us a 10 by 40, really combined.
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker B:We're all in.
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker B:We're part of your fashion show.
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker B:You know, I know.
Speaker B:I don't know who's listening to this, but I know a lot of people are thinking, all right, it's their first year.
Speaker B:Let's see how it goes before we.
Speaker B:We roll the dice on.
Speaker B:On another year.
Speaker B:I know we're not calling it the first annual because it's the first.
Speaker B:It's the first one.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We expect it to be a first annual, but just like my little soapbox about, it's 25 bucks.
Speaker B:Guys, join Goa.
Speaker B:Come and join us at Goals.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a small investment.
Speaker B:You're gonna get.
Speaker B:You're gonna talk to people that need to hear from you, show up, be there.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the thing.
Speaker A:We are going to make this an annual event.
Speaker A:So at least for the first two to three years, it'll.
Speaker A:It'll stay in Knoxville.
Speaker A:We got a little bit of room to grow.
Speaker A:But this is one of those things where a lot of people ask for it.
Speaker A:The industry, the.
Speaker A:The members, and this is gonna be big.
Speaker A:We're doing things a little differently.
Speaker A:I mean, we're gonna have panels and talks and learn how to do things there at the show.
Speaker B:That's what people want.
Speaker B:It needs to be interactive.
Speaker B:You need to come away with the learning.
Speaker B:I know that it's very family friendly, but there's some things about this that are unusual.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then we've got, you know, for you guys, we've got a whole day dedicated just to vendors, which is fantastic for you guys.
Speaker A:I mean, that's a big complaint.
Speaker A:Listen, I've done a number of shows.
Speaker A:The amount of shows that I actually got to enjoy and walk around have been, like, next to zero.
Speaker A:So this is one of those shows where I've.
Speaker A:We've taken every part that we could make better.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did it.
Speaker A:And that includes, you know, having a vendor day, having a vendor lounge, having, you know, our Patriot Life member lounge.
Speaker A:We're gonna have, you know, there's gonna be free concerts, free comedy show.
Speaker A:Free.
Speaker A:You've got the free talks and panels.
Speaker A:Learn how to be a better advocate.
Speaker A:Come talk to some of the great content creators that are going to be there, come down and go enjoy the 120,000, 127,000 square foot exhibition hall that we're going to have all these vendors at.
Speaker A:Go stop by and say hi to Vertex.
Speaker A:Go over to Premiere and say hi to them.
Speaker A:Go talk to all these companies.
Speaker A:I mean we're putting this together for our members to come out.
Speaker A:Then in the industry is, is paying for this basically you guys, by putting in the, paying for the boot space and donating that time.
Speaker A:And this is a big.
Speaker A:For people who, who think that we're spending a ton of money on this.
Speaker A:It's a big fundraiser.
Speaker A: you are helping fund Goa and: Speaker A:That cuts it down to $20 per year.
Speaker A:$20 Gets you into goals for, for free.
Speaker A:Like I said, McDonald's cost more than 20 bucks.
Speaker A:All right, Try to feed, feed a family of two or two people on McDonald's for under 20 bucks.
Speaker A:Good luck.
Speaker A:But it, it's going to be two days of going around talking to people, listening to these talks.
Speaker A:Go to see these companies.
Speaker A:Companies are putting out new product.
Speaker A:We're super excited about that.
Speaker A:So come to goals.
Speaker A:This is my pitch to everybody.
Speaker A:Tony's already said it.
Speaker A:Do it.
Speaker A:Go see Tony.
Speaker A:He'll be there, I think.
Speaker B:Yep, I'll be there.
Speaker A:Tony, go shake Tony Sand.
Speaker A:If you don't, he'll be sad.
Speaker A:He tells me that if you don't shake his hand, he cries at night.
Speaker B:I do, I call.
Speaker B:I call and complain.
Speaker B:It's just, it's just not worth it.
Speaker B:Come see me.
Speaker A:So before we finish wrapping up, where can people find you guys?
Speaker A:Socials, Internet, all that fun stuff.
Speaker C:So our Instagram is Vertex Underscore official.
Speaker C:I believe that's the same thing on.
Speaker C:Or we have another one because we obviously have to have that backup account, VertexOutdoor.
Speaker C:That's where most of our content is gonna be pushed out.
Speaker C:And then Vertex.com great place we're gonna adjacent.
Speaker B:So we get Shadow banned a lot.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And then we have a ton of people that, I hate to call them influencers because like Tony said, they're, they're.
Speaker C:They kind of naturally fell in, into our laps and we started working with them because they liked our product.
Speaker C:But there's a lot of influencers out there that have our product that go through it and Instagram is a really good place to see it.
Speaker C:And you know that I mean, seeing all the product being used and we.
Speaker B:Talked, Nash and I talked to people all the time.
Speaker B:Last weekend we were up at Sig Summerfest and all day long we talked to people that came by and said, yeah, I'm familiar with your brand.
Speaker B:I watched something on YouTube, watched 20 things on YouTube.
Speaker B:I've never put hands on the product.
Speaker B:Well, you can do that at Goals.
Speaker B:Yeah, you can do that at any of our retailers.
Speaker C:And that's a cool thing about an event like Goals is, is, is the, the manufacturers that are there because it's an intimidating industry as a, as a consumer, when you're an early on consumer.
Speaker C:But I'll tell you right now, events like this are perfect for people to come to that have no experience whatsoever.
Speaker C:They just bought their first gun, but they want to go and touch the optics, they want to go and touch some of the other firearms that they didn't necessarily buy last time or, or this brand of backpack or that it's a good place to come talk to the factory directly and see what they have to offer instead of just your local store.
Speaker B:Whether you're just thinking about guns and haven't taken that step or you've been doing it for decades, Goals is you're going to leave smarter and with some really cool education after two days.
Speaker A:I, I couldn't say I couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:Like you, you hit the nail on head.
Speaker A:I have to stop selling because these guys are the true salesmen.
Speaker A:So we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up guys.
Speaker B:Thank you for watching for having us.
Speaker A:Thank you guys again for being there.
Speaker A:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:We've been looking forward to this for a long time.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm glad we finally got you guys on.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna wrap up.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:Thank you guys for watching today.
Speaker A:Make sure to like share and subscribe.
Speaker A:Hit the little bell for notification.
Speaker A:If you are on the podcasting apps, leave a five star review.
Speaker A:Make sure to go to goals.gun owners.org to sign up to be a member and pre register for Goals so you can get your badge at the door, early access in and if you guys have any questions, leave a comment below and have a great rest of your day.
Speaker B:We'll see you at Goals.
