In "Breaking the Mold: Confronting Queen Bee Syndrome in the Corporate Hive," we engage in a critical conversation about the challenges women face in male-dominated workplaces. Host Tony Tidbit, along with special guest Erika Bennett of Essence Ventures, explore the complexities of the Queen Bee Syndrome, where some women leaders, having navigated the masculine culture, may unintentionally hinder other women's advancement.

This episode sheds light on the double-bind faced by Black female executives, who confront not only gender barriers but also racial ones. We'll explore the nuances of these experiences, understanding the differences and similarities, and discussing strategies for women to advocate for themselves amidst sexism from all quarters.

Key Points:

• Dissecting the Queen Bee Syndrome: What fuels it in corporate America?
• The Double-Bind for Black Female Executives: Navigating gender and racial challenges.
• Strategies for Solidarity: How women can support each other in the workplace.

Notable Quotes:

• "Achieving success doesn't mean closing the door behind you." - Tony Tidbit
• "Empowerment is about lifting as we climb." - Erika Bennett

Show Notes with Timecodes:

• [00:03:00] Introduction to Queen Bee Syndrome and its impacts.
• [00:20:00] Erika Bennett's insights on women in leadership roles.
• [00:35:00] Challenges unique to Black female executives.
• [00:50:00] Strategies for fostering female solidarity in the workplace.
• [01:05:00] Audience Q&A session with Erika and Tony.

a black executive perspective look man they 

didn't get a chance to play chess they had to  

play Checker Let's talk about it t openly and 

honestly there was a lot of smart kids there  

black executive perspective now my story is 

not unique there's thousands of Professionals  

of color who have experiences like mine a black 

executive perspective whether you're aware of it  

or not it's a topic that is often avoided we'll 

discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we  

didn't even talk about this topic cuz we were 

afraid a black executive perspective Queen be  

syndrome is a term used to describe a workplace 

phenomenon in which a high-ranking female employee  

usually a manager initiates and excludes her 

female subordinates often leading to hostile  

and uncomfortable work environment while the term 

is often used to describe women in positions of  

power it can also refer to any situation in which 

a person in a position of authority abuses their  

power to harm those beneath them in this episode 

Erica Bennett will help us understand the signs  

symptoms and how to avoid being a victim welcome 

to a black executive perspective podcast a safe  

space where we discuss all matters related to race 

especially race in Corporate America I'm your host  

your guide your Mastro your sensei Tony tidbit 

and I've been in the corporate game for over 30  

years so we're here to break down those Barriers 

address the topic of race in the workplace so in  

this episode women's empowerment and the queen be 

syndrome Erica Bennett will help us understand the  

queen be syndrome regarding women who pursue 

individual success in a male dominating work  

setting by adjusting to a masculine culture and 

disting themselves from other women usually their  

junior counterparts and listen at the end of the 

day we all know women in leadership positions  

almost always struggle to get to where they are 

and one would assume that they would naturally  

support other women in the same Quest however 

in many corporate environments female leaders  

can intentionally and unintentionally make it 

more difficult for their female colleagues to  

achieve the same Heights and for the female black 

executive there exists even fewer opportunities  

for advancement and Leadership so how do the two 

experience relate how do they differ how can women  

advocate for themselves in face of sexism from 

men and women Erica Bennett welcome to a black  

executive perspective podcast thank you and thank 

you for that wonderful intro you know Erica has  

been up since 6 o'clock in the morning working 

on a new launch that they're doing so and she's  

in La so she's already had a long day so again 

we're very appreciative of you being able to  

join a black executive perspective to talk about 

a very important topic right um women empowerment  

and the queen be syndrome so before we dive into 

it tell us a little bit about you Erica give us a  

little bit about your background Tony it's such 

an honor to be here and thank you for having me  

and you know my days start at 5 or 6 a.m. every 

day so um you know my body is sort of used to  

it so I appreciate um you having me on I I grew 

up in Seattle Washington okay so um very kind of  

interesting background equal parts like West Coast 

hip hop and REI like camping granola girl so I did  

it all um and I think it's just allowed me to 

appreciate so many different ways to experience  

experience our world so that's sort of me growing 

up and as I mentioned I went to Chicago I sort  

of feel like Chicago raised me in a way because 

okay like I came into my own and developed my own  

worldview and my own sense of purpose and Mission 

in college I had you know I was very fortunate to  

have incredible professors and incredible peers 

who have now gone on to do wonderful things who um  

all were a part of that growth for me and then you 

know about a year after graduation from college I  

moved to LA and my mission and purpose has always 

been around representation for our people in media  

um that has looked very different I thought I 

could do it through the casting office and realize  

I got to be at the network at the studio or I got 

producer to really have like all the power right  

right right and I sort of Miss being creative so 

that sort of sparked this whole Journey For Me of  

working across many different Industries working 

with many different brands but all really in in  

service of trying to find ways to um accurately 

and authentically represent uh the black  

experience here um both in the US and globally 

that is awesome and and that's what we want to  

dive into today in the terms of the accurately and 

you know diving into the black experience and and  

and again we can go into this a little bit when 

we go into the queen bee syndrome you know and  

one of the questions and I'll I'll get to there 

shortly um but is the queen be is it is it just  

for African-American people of color I mean I that 

could probably could be something for any woman in  

terms of leadership is that correct well I think 

you have to think about the very you know you you  

yourself kind of said it in your intro the number 

of women that even kind of send to to a specific  

place in their career is limited um by many 

different factors uh gender bias in the workplace  

the role of women you know in in culture and in 

the home and in family um often is the woman that  

is making sacrifices making um career choices to 

be you know to better support family making and  

decision planning um and so when we think about 

women in general the the path to the Sea Suite  

or the path to these executive roles is is not an 

easy one so I I I don't think it is something that  

is um specific to the black community I think it's 

something that is much bigger and and much more  

focused on when we look at all of the hurdles that 

women face getting to the top and what women have  

to do right either we have to make sacrifices 

to or delay our family planning or we may have  

to show up differently in the workplace and I 

think all of those then impact how how we end  

up interacting and how we relate to other people 

in the workplace so right that's my take no no no  

it's good and and we're going to dive deeper into 

that but I love that answer because you know we  

want to get an understanding um but also want to 

get one final question to you an understanding of  

you like I said you're very accomplished um you 

have a mission you've talked about you know real  

quickly about how Chicago raised you um you've 

done a lot of things you've been um you know  

you gotten accolades from different organizations 

or different Publications in terms of who you are  

the work that you do you talked a little bit about 

how you know you thought you could be able to have  

more power in one area but then you knew that I 

had to move to this area to to actually run it to  

have the power So speaking of that you have a lot 

of talent you bring a lot to the table well what  

is one superpower that you wish that you could 

have you know I don't like to sit in the world  

of lack I don't like to think about what I wish 

I could have or what I wish I would have done um  

every you know I I believe our life is very much 

by Design and every place that I am in is a series  

and a culmination of all the experiences I've 

experienced along the way I mean I wish I was just  

overall a little bit more organized and better at 

my calendar but I'm not but but I you know I I'm  

very grateful for my path and I'm very grateful 

for the many different people who've taken me  

under their wing and mentored me and I'm now 

grateful for the opportunity to take um work in  

the intersection of my my purpose and my passion 

and what I think I am good at which is marketing  

and bring all those worlds together and live in 

that um every single day and and live in that so I  

don't know that there's a superpower I wish I had 

that I I don't have I don't know turn invisible  

or but I I really try to operate in the present 

um and I think I don't know I'm just so grateful  

for what I do have right and it's I I don't think 

about what I don't have and I don't try I try not  

to sit in a place of lack but really come come 

from a place of abundance you know what so that's  

a great answer okay because at the end of the 

day it is about looking at what you're blessed  

with versus what you're what you don't have right 

and yeah and having that mindset of abundance you  

attract abundance so yeah and I also think you 

know we just have to accept that we're human  

beings and that we are naturally evolutionary 

beings and I I am very open very aware of where  

my blind spots are and as a leader I try to fill 

my team with other leaders who are complimentary  

to me and complimentary to each other and so 

we all as one team f in the blind spots sort  

of like a basketball team you know if you've got 

somebody who's a really great long range shooter  

you got to have a great rebounder on the other 

side right if you've got somebody who's really  

skilled at defense you've got to have someone 

who's got hustle that can get back down the cour  

support for the fast break so um you know I think 

it's just really important for leaders to think  

about um the ways that you can surround yourself 

with expertise that you don't have and and that  

way again it's not lack it is um understanding 

your blind spots understanding where you might  

have expertise coming into the team that is just 

frankly better and I think good leaders know that  

and they build teams that way and it creates 

Pathways for other people to grow into exactly  

well listen we we kind of gotten into it a little 

bit so I love it I mean I love the warmup into you  

know going right into the episode so Erica are 

you ready to have this conversation I'm ready  

to have it bring okay let's talk about it my girl 

let's talk about it so you know one of the things  

I always want to do because obviously there's 

terms that you know it's like when you go to a  

company and everybody talks in acronyms you know 

we got to get the ab boo you know Blues together  

and you're like what are they talking about 

right so here I always want to make sure that  

the audience follows along and understands so can 

you just can you define what what is the queen be  

queen bee syndrome what does that mean well it's 

a term that's been given to um women in senior  

positions um in any respective field um who uh May 

themselves or push forward in the organization um  

you know gender bias um or may kind of want to 

hoard all the the power for themselves um it's  

usually someone who experienced quite a bit of 

success um in their career and it's typically  

used to describe women who are really trying to 

defend that position um so what that could look  

like is um sort of um you know holding back other 

people um those are some of the behaviors that are  

typically associated with the Sy um with a queen 

be syndrome so so and again uh you know why would  

somebody do that so no and let's just back up a 

little bit because you a few minutes ago you said  

Tony all the things that women have to go through 

to get to where they want get to where they want  

to to be accomplished right they give up their 

families they have to deal with you know being  

one of the only few from a gender standpoint they 

have to deal with you know the stereotypes that  

people have already labeled on them you know and 

we can keep going on and on and on and then they  

finally get there and then all of a sudden they're 

playing I'm going to use your basketball analogy  

they're playing you know they're they're passing a 

ball around the the perimeter of the of the court  

and they're not really trying to help anybody else 

score so especially knowing that they went through  

all that why would they have this type of mindset 

some people you know it's as a woman it's hard um  

you know you oftentimes have to show up and be 

even more persistent even more like there's so  

much bias around around who women and who who we 

how we should show up in the workplace um we we  

can't be this way or we're angry we can't be this 

way or we're this and so I'm not defending Queen  

be syndrome but I am and I think it's important 

that we all acknowledge the difficulty with which  

women in particular and in particular black women 

have to show up in role just to get get halfway  

to where their male counterparts are we have to 

show up strong and convicted and we have to be  

researched and we have to you know be buttoned 

up and zipped up in how we present strategy and  

we have to be prepared to defend it and and so I I 

think that a lot of times what happens is there's  

probably a subset of women who just don't who 

lack the self-awareness to even understand that  

they're just doing what they've always done to 

get to the level that they've done so and then  

there's probably a subset where it's maybe a 

little bit more intentional and that comes with  

um deep rooted insecurity because women have 

consistently throughout history and throughout  

our lives been told these are the spaces that 

you are equipped to occupy and these are the  

spaces that you're not equipped to occupy and 

so there's probably a mix of both but I think  

it really stems from having to fight every day 

just to get the foot in the door just to be in  

the room to be heard to be um for your voice to 

be understood for um for you to be respected in  

the same way as your male counterparts so and and 

so where I struggle is that and let me tell you a  

quick little story sure so in which is it's it's 

a different dynamic as being a male black versus  

being a female black right so I recognize even 

though you know the doors that I wasn't a lot  

of doors open a lot of places the majority of 

places I was the only black person especially  

as I got up into leadership positions okay so and 

I understand women you know even if you look at  

the the the pay Equity you know males make more 

money than women right and and and I don't my  

wife she works but at the end of the day you know 

she you know my mindset is totally different than  

her mindset when it comes to our kids and stuff 

to that nature in terms of her having a career so  

there's it's not apples versus apples okay so 

however I remember and I'm just going to give  

you you know my little story here I remember being 

in an organization again I'm in advertising sales  

you know I've been at the VP level I I didn't 

see a lot of people look like me okay and I  

remember going to this event no I take this back 

I remember this company was trying to recruit me  

to come over and when I came over and I met with 

the chief Revenue officer um there was a another  

black guy all right and he was a VP there right 

and you know and obviously you know how it goes  

right when you go where and they they're like Yeah 

Joe works here too so in other words it's like is  

we got we got a black VP too all right that you 

so but whatever whatever whatever whatever right  

so I I I saw I waved at he waved at me but then I 

saw the guy at some event and I saw him and again  

there wasn't a lot of other people of color there 

so I went up to him to have a conversation and he  

was really standoffish he was like you know he had 

a force field around like he really didn't want to  

talk to me and but he was chatting with everybody 

else but he didn't and I'm not talking to people  

C he talking other but he he didn't really want 

to like warm up to me and I really I really I  

mean it was I was shocked at that because in my 

position I've always tried to help other people  

you know either break into the industry move up in 

the industry provide counsel to them in terms of  

how to navigate the industry of corporate America 

America so I I I've seen that um on from a male  

standpoint so so where I struggle is is when I I I 

get it that women have to go through a lot however  

knowing that you went through a lot and let's just 

back up because you just said something you said  

earlier about how you know your blind spots but 

your thing is about helping your team be able  

to play helping them become leaders you fought 

through a you you had to bust down a lot of doors  

you had had to deal with a bunch of so why are 

you more open to saying hey I'm going bring people  

along versus somebody else who's like nah work you 

know figure it out yourself yeah I mean one I've  

I've seen the value in it I I've seen the value 

in it um but two um I've done the work I think  

that um I always tell my team I work for them and 

not the other way around so that sort of servant  

leadership is really critical I think a lot of 

times people are giving these positions of power  

and they're not taught how to like actually be a 

good boss actually be a good coach and actually be  

a good Mentor and I think there is something so 

deep seated and deep rooted in terms of our own  

sense of selfworth Our Own sense of value value 

and purpose and a lot of people just haven't done  

the work they have not done the work on themselves 

and so what you have are deeply insecure people  

right who've been told their entire life you're 

not supposed to be here we're gonna make it so  

hard to get here and then when they get into these 

positions of power um it it becomes their undoing  

in a way because all of their insecurities just 

come flowing out um I I I need to be at the top  

I'm threatened by anyone else who might seem like 

they could take my position at any point in time  

um that just comes from just such a deep place of 

insecurity and it's a place that I've just done  

the work on I don't have it or you know I have 

my own insecurities but with respect to team and  

bringing people along and allowing people to shine 

it's um I have the mindset that I work for them  

anyway so it allows me to it allows me to approach 

it just differently it really does so how much of  

this is a character flaw so in other words that 

you know people who are in leadership positions  

right at the end of the day they're really out 

for themselves they've never they're they're  

they've never been a team oriented individual ual 

versus people who are team or oriented individuals  

no matter what position that they get they're 

always going to be focused on the teams so do you  

see couldn't this be just and I don't want to say 

it's only a character flaw but could you see this  

being part of a character flaw absolutely right 

absolutely it can be a part of a character flaw  

listen my approach to leadership is very different 

and a lot of times people mistake my my kindness  

for weakness and so they try to exploit that 

and take advantage of that so I I realize that  

there are other consequences that come along with 

being principled in my approach to leadership and  

to Bringing people along in their career Journeys 

right and um so it absolutely is a charact it can  

be a character FL on the other side of that 

right and it it's you know we really have to  

start to examine what are the triggers what are 

the inputs that are driving the insecurity that  

allow us to treat others the way that we treat 

them when we get to positions of power and I I  

had to do it myself early on in my career I was 

a firsttime VP and I had this team and it came  

from a really good place but I was was a hard 

boss I was tough MH it came because I wanted I  

wanted this team to just be looked at and seen 

as the best but the real underlying insecurity  

was I didn't want the department to fail and once 

I got once I understood that that that was about  

my own insecurity around failure as opposed to 

you know um you know wanting to set everybody  

up for success as I articulated it allowed me 

to show up in a different and more human way  

in the workplace and I learned it later I mean I 

was tough for a couple years it was really hard  

to work for me so when you say tough like what 

do you mean give me some examples of tough you  

know I was just really tough in terms of like 

I wasn't mean or disrespectful or any of that  

so it wasn't it wasn't a dis respect thing but 

um I didn't create enough room for failure and  

growth and learning through failure um I wanted 

us to just get it right and and and so I put in  

a lot of fail safes so that we got it right 

you know what I mean and so that the business  

wouldn't the pipeline wouldn't go away and so that 

we get hired for more jobs and so that we wouldn't  

just be competing with other black agencies 

we'd actually be be comp meeting with every  

agency right right and we did we accomplished 

all of that and I'm so proud of that the what  

is incredible the how we got there for the first 

year or two was intense and guess what it drained  

me it exhausted me as a leader it it and when you 

say it exhausted you as a leader like what do you  

mean by exhausted you as a leader it exhausted 

me to to constantly be like maniacal about every  

little word and comma and period and hat every 

little you know detail when in reality I had  

a superstar Allstar team and I should have just 

been really confident in the work that they could  

do right and so you know a couple years into the 

role I really started to understand that concept  

and again it came down to me doing the my own 

work my own self-discovery to realize oh I have  

a deep-seated fear of failing failing this team 

failing the company and failing myself self and  

that I need to address because we're not failing 

we're doing very well financially and you know  

we're doing very well in the industry and once 

I sort of let go of that there was more freedom  

for people and we flourished more because this 

person had a great idea and we weren't picking it  

apart we were adding to it to make it better right 

this person was really good and really tapped into  

social media and even though they were a junior 

coordinator I'm going to let them run with this  

because they can add value in ways that no other 

agency could so as soon as I started to kind of  

shed the fears of failure and really embrace the 

um embrace the abundance that could come from  

giving people the freedom to just do what they 

do and if we fail along the way we fail along  

the way we we learn we pick ourselves back up and 

we keep going so do you think we never broke it so  

so do you think this was just something that you 

discovered or do you or you went through or do  

you think this is something that the majority of 

people in a leadership position at a certain level  

go goes through I think I think a lot of a lot 

of people at a certain level especially when you  

get in the sea Suite I'm here it's hard there's a 

lot very high expectation and a lot that the team  

my team and that I have to deliver as part of an 

executive team right I'm responsible for ensuring  

that the that a brand that has been around for 50 

years that I adore and other brands that have now  

come into the family that they succeed so it's 

a lot of pressure it is a lot of pressure and  

I think um some people don't ever learn that um 

until they get to the higher levels and that's  

when you have dynamics that are that are like what 

we have dubbed the queen bee syndrome yeah I I so  

number one thank you for sharing that number two 

I can I'm and I'm pretty sure my audience a lot of  

people in the audience would is it would relate 

to what you said especially if they've been in  

leadership positions because to be honest Erica 

I did the exact same thing when I first got into  

leadership position right it was about my fear 

failure it was about I and and it was more um  

and I didn't think this way at the time but I knew 

it was part of the motivation I'm the only black  

leader here I never said that I never you know but 

I know you know from a unconscious standpoint it  

was part of the motivation right so I can't fail 

right and so what did I do I microman I want to  

say micromanage but I didn't let my team fail okay 

and so I held their hands all the way through and  

then to be fair so but to your point there was 

an Awakening there was a reflection when I was  

like you know what they're smart they're Talent 

let them just do their thing and just trust them  

and then when I was able to do that that's when 

not only that we continue to grow but they grew  

and then they became VPS or whatever the case 

may be right so so number one I thank you for  

sharing that but that's the point I want to get 

to is is part of that because there's not a lot  

of few there's not a lot of black female CMOS okay 

so is that the added pressure that you dealt with  

when you when you're working with your team yeah I 

mean we were we were an all black team when I was  

when I first became a VP we were all black and 

yeah there was so much of our racial identity  

was wrapped up into it right like and a lot of 

it was me really playing to bias it was um well  

they don't they don't understand the power of the 

black dollar which is very true they expect us to  

operate in a certain way because we are an all 

black team they expect for these things and so I  

was really trying to demonstrate that you could 

have an all black team that was going to overd  

deliver every time that was going to just kill it 

um that was just as good or better as any agency  

not just the black agencies like those were the 

narratives I was trying to overcome and I I sent  

I because that was the first first time I was 

really fully operating in my professional and  

personal mission I had a high desire to make sure 

that the industry understood um the importance and  

weight of the audience and that they respected it 

and that they honored it and that the work I did  

was a forcing function for that respect and for 

that honor so um yeah I felt like very heavy on  

my shoulders you're carrying a lot of stuff still 

yeah I still feel that way but time and experience  

has taught me that there are many different paths 

to the same outcome and that you know I still got  

to let my team grow and learn even though there's 

there's you know pretty pretty high states there  

so based on and and again thanks for sharing that 

because that is a lot to carry okay that's a a  

lot to carry and you talked about the different 

thoughts that uh you know this is a black team so  

you know the different narratives that people 

probably were thinking or you know different  

stereotypes that were probably because it is an 

all black team so that's a lot to deal with okay  

so it's interesting right sometimes you work in 

an area where you're the only black person then  

you work in an area where you work in you the 

black team okay and it carries so many different  

weights and thoughts it's just amazing right it's 

so what would you recommend for the ladies that's  

out there that let's be fair they work their butt 

off let's just go back to what we talked about in  

the beginning they deal with a lot they they 

they you know overcame a lot to get to their  

position how would you help them understand or 

how would you help them not fall into the queen  

bee syndrome and be more of about the entire team 

and help other women be able to pull themselves  

up I think you have to go inward first you know I 

think um that's what I ultimately had to do was go  

Inward and when you say go inward what like what 

do you mean go inward I mean self-examine self do  

the self-work do the do the the work internally 

to understand what are my fears what are my bias

es you know what am I solving for as an 

individual so that you can show up as your  

best self um I don't think I would have gotten 

to a place where how I operate now if I didn't  

go Inward and understand okay this is about 

your fear of failure this is about you caring  

more on your shoulders than you actually need 

to that's more this is a an industry issue and  

you don't need to take the whole entertainment 

industry and put it on your back and March it  

down the road that through consistent meaningful 

work across a variety of different Entertainment  

Properties and projects you can actually show that 

iteratively versus let's just try to take on the  

whole project the whole problem all at once so it 

was a lot of like self-work and self reflection  

um and then it's continued self-awareness as I 

Ascend um I'm constantly checking for biases and  

I'm not perfect I still have them I'm constantly 

checking for my insecurities I'm still have them  

I'm not perfect but I think if you understand 

like I said to be human is to be evolutionary  

um so that's the first step is to go Inward and 

the second the second step is to leave room for  

failure and you got to just be comfortable 

with falling down a million times and be just  

as comfortable with getting up a million in one 

times um and until I learned how to sit in the  

discomfort of failure and sit in the discomfort of 

ambiguity and all that comes with what I perceive  

as failure um it I I couldn't understand how to 

not allow that to be the The Guiding Light that  

bring that you know that drives me every day 

towards success and the third thing is I think  

you have to reframe your definition of failure 

is it is it truly a failure if this doesn't

happen so really getting crisp on what failure 

even looks like right right I had such high  

standards I still do for myself that like if I 

delivered a document and just was like did not  

have the right eye dotted or t cross that I was 

like guys what are we doing what are we even doing  

do you know what I mean so I okay failure might 

be we didn't hit this number or whatever but is  

it really this thing over here that's probably not 

a failure so you know again I would say um going  

inward right I would say um being uncomfortable 

sitting in that discomfort a failure and the third  

being leaving even leaving room and reframing 

definition of failure could be is would would  

would would um the makeup of your team in terms 

of you coaching them and getting the best out of  

them and they become a players in the organization 

is that a success absolutely absolutely absolutely  

right I did an interview once and they asked 

me like what is your biggest success everything  

you've done and I was like looking around the 

industry and seeing people who started out as  

like interns and Junior coordinators who are now 

running multi-million dollar film campaigns or who  

are now running whole comms departments or who 

are now um who have stepped out into the world  

of Entrepreneurship all of that is is um is off 

your tree right L my mind and I you know don't  

want to take credit and take credit but um no 

but it's incredible right so if you help other  

individuals that's the point here right right 

if you help other visuals individuals grow and  

they become leaders right that's a success as well 

right isn't your bosses or the company looking I  

always taught my team this it's like look at the 

end of the day it's it's not that I'm I'm gonna  

help build your brand so I'm gonna not just keep 

you under my thumb I'm gonna tell everybody how  

great you are but here's the kicker you need to 

also build your brand because this is when I know  

building your brand is when I say something about 

you gab and somebody say oh gab she's awesome or  

Tony your team is great you know everybody in your 

team you see my point here that's a success as  

well right so I think that's where we want to get 

everyone in terms of empowering and helping other  

individuals take it to the next level well and 

we don't often Place enough value on that right  

like I think we think of success as did we hit 

our Revenue numbers did we hit this did we hit  

that one of the more interesting barometers of 

success or kpis I was interviewing for a role  

and I asked them like you know what's your kind of 

goal on the people's side and they said I want to  

get that phone call from when the person leaves 

my company goes to the next job and the boss at  

the next job calls me and goes wow this person is 

an absolute star because the reality is we're not  

all going to stay stay in the same place forever 

you know no our interest change our needs in terms  

of professional development change so how how 

then can we think about um getting people ready  

for the next thing and and speak like and speaking 

of that how how so your love because obviously you  

you've had a lot of different roles at different 

organizations so how can an organization get more  

women um in leadership positions how can they 

cultivate and train especially women of color  

different backgrounds um so there there's less of 

a queen be syndrome and it's more about putting  

more people more women in positions that they 

can be able to fly and grow themselves yeah I  

mean I've been really fortunate um worked under 

some pretty Dynamic women and black women I work  

under I work with Dynamic black women every day 

so I'm very fortunate I think that um you know I  

go back to what I said earlier about why I think 

that behavior may show up um among women or among  

women of color and it I truly believe it a lot 

of it has to do with the way that women have to  

fight and so removing some of those obstacles 

and biases right and you know you talked about  

how can we coach women I was just as qualified 

if not more than a lot of my male counterparts  

and was not given the same opportunity so it 

wasn't a coaching issue it was it was an access  

issue it was a sponsorship issue so when you say 

access sponsorship is issue be a little bit more  

specific like what do you mean meetings someone 

in the room going we we should give Erica this  

opportunity somebody talking on your behalf 

we should yeah or someone kind of working to  

co-c conspire in the same way that men get these 

opportunities so I think clear the path women are  

qualified yes sure coaching but also acknowledging 

when they are qualified putting them up for the  

role and not making it so so difficult to get 

into these positions is critical right and then  

of course there's work that needs to be done on 

the individual but I think when you have a group  

of people who've been conditioned over time to to 

believe a certain thing about themselves they are  

fighting again they are fighting an internal 

Battle of their own insecurities and and you  

know what that is an excellent point and and and 

that's the the thing that's not spoken about a lot  

right right is when you show up you already have 

a bunch of baggage that you have to deal with all  

right so excellent excellent thought there so we 

talked about superpowers earlier and you said hey  

you know what I really you know I'm just I'm I'm 

blessed and I you know it's all about abundance  

the you wanted to hear no no no no no no it's all 

good but I'm gonna go right back to that a little  

bit right so for my audience who's listening 

to a black executive perspective the female  

the lady who is bringing everything to the table 

they they're playing chess not Checkers they're  

working hard they they're they're building their 

brand within the organization um they aspire to  

be where uh Erica Bennett is they want to be CMO 

or CEO cro whatever or run their own business what  

the case may be what what three or four bullets 

would you give them knowing all knowing there's  

a bunch of tank traps knowing there's a bunch 

of stuff that they going to have to overcome be  

traps everywhere there's going to be a million 

traps right there going to be a million traps  

all right we know that they know that so how how 

can they navigate give them some some feedback  

some background four or five bullets in terms how 

they could do that I think first of all um like  

kind of surrendering to the process I spent years 

years even in more recent roles be like what what  

am I doing what is happening and now at the 

role I sit in where I've gotta I'm probably  

a rare CMO because I've done almost every job in 

my department but I've got to not only understand  

what everyone does but then figure out how all 

of that moves our business and Company objectives  

forward um so the years I spent like huh how did 

I up been social of all places and now social is  

a critical part of our business we published well 

Essence is a publisher um right so so they need  

to be a student of the business understand the 

surrender to the process surrender to the process  

this doesn't mean you throw intentionality out the 

window but I think it means you can um understand  

where you want to get and it's okay to kind of 

take a windy road to get there it's not always  

linear corre a really great mentor of mine said 

you should be thinking of your career like a  

suitcase so if you're CML what are the things in 

each pocket and in each part of the compartment  

of the suitcase do you need in order to tell a 

story so I maybe like three years ago started  

reading the job description of a CMO and I'm like 

oh and I highlighted okay well I'm not quite there  

yet on this I'm not quite there on this I'm not 

quite there on this and I basically turn that  

into my learning agenda at these companies and 

I'm like okay I I need more experience running  

a budget of this size what what could that look 

like to do that and really partnering with my  

managers and leaders to say hey I want to I want 

to step up and own that um so say tell them what  

you want be straight up let them know where you 

want to go yeah and and uh you don't have to say  

I'm trying to be the CMO one day I'm trying to 

have your job but what you could say is here are  

some things I'm really interested here's some 

skill sets I'm really interested in building  

out and this is where I need your support and the 

good manager is like you know you could use your  

review you could use your one-on ones the good 

managers really appreciate that you're thinking  

about your own career and taking it into your 

hands and coming to them with a road map and a  

plan hey that project that I heard about in the 

staff meeting yeah remember when we talked about  

like I'm really I think I can do that and here's 

how that connects so I think surrendering to the  

process being super open under and but being 

intentional right understanding what skill sets  

you need and treating you know every job every 

role having a learning agenda and having sort of  

like these are the things I want to accomplish and 

get out of it I still have a learning agenda and  

my CMO role um we're not I'm never done learning 

and I have a list of all the things that I want  

to accomplish that I made when I joined and you 

know scratching those off slowly but surely um  

and then I think um understanding when it's time 

to go and understanding when you're just really

uncomfortable that is so can you just spend 

a couple minutes on that real quick because  

I think that's where the majority of us fail all 

right not knowing when it's time to cut out yeah  

okay well I also think under you got to know the 

difference between the two because there have been  

times where I've probably cut out and I should 

have stayed and there are times where oh I stayed  

way too long right and neither of those are good 

right so again having that road map having that  

agenda being very intentional about what you want 

to give give to the organization what you want to  

get out of the organization before you leave helps 

you understand it's time to go I've been I've had  

jobs where I was enroll for one year and I was 

like you know what I got what I needed I'm out  

and it was intentional and purposeful and it 

was and I had a clear so when I'm talking to  

these recruiters there's a narrative there it's 

not just like I peeled out because I hated it  

you know um and then there are roles there are 

companies where I switched roles after two years  

so you know my time at YouTube's a great example 

of that I got really great experience there  

I mean marketing strategy no one does it like 

YouTube so it's was very very um impactful for  

me I spent two years on social and then you know 

our business priorities shifted and it was time  

for me to move into something else and this role 

working with communities and creators was like a  

huge passion point for me right and so I I think I 

think you have to just know and then at a certain  

point I was like okay where else can I go nowhere 

else to go maybe time to peel out and I went back  

to my list and I'm like look at all the things 

launches successful shows for YouTube business  

impact marketing impact personal brand impact okay 

this might be a good time awesome you know um I  

really appreciate you sharing in because at the 

end of the day there's somebody I know this for  

a fact I know this for a fact I don't know their 

names I don't know what part of the country that  

they're in I don't know what they do for a job 

they may be in high school or they could be you  

know 50 years old looking for something else or 

you know looking for a change or a bump in their  

career somebody's going to hear what you said 

and they're going to put it in action and they're  

going to make it happen and you know why because 

they see you and they know hey there's somebody  

out there who's gotten to where I want to go and 

they look like me it's not going to be easy lot  

of tank traps lot of stuff along the way right but 

I see Erica she seems she talked about helping and  

empowering her team I don't have to be the queen 

bee syndrome you know I can be able to you know  

understand the process throughout the company be 

able to intentionally let people know where I want  

to go go I love the suitcase analogy right what 

pieces are missing what what do I need to put in  

this pocket right here to make sure I have a full 

suitcase and then I love the last thing you said  

you know understanding when it's time to move 

on or making sure you're not leaving too early  

um because there may be still things that you have 

to to to do to to get to where you want to go yeah  

what better way to learn than on someone's time 

that dime I think yeah it's so true right um final  

thoughts Erica final thoughts um I think getting 

clear early about the type of leader you want to  

be and staying unwavering in that is critical 

and I think then that allows you to show up in  

the best way possible it allows you to support 

people's career their career aspirations um it  

helps with your own um and you know I think that's 

the most important thing is just going within and  

figure out who you want to be and how you want 

to show up in the world and then actually do  

that okay well number one we really appreciate 

you today you provided us a lot of value a lot  

of thoughts and obviously it's been a long day for 

you so really appreciate I know and you got to go  

back you know you got stuff you still got to do so 

Erica Bennett love you a lot thanks a lot wishing  

you nothing but mad success what a pleasure 

thank you so much well I hope you really enjoyed  

as I did uh black a black executive perspective 

podcast episode women's empowerment and the Queen  

B syndrome so our tidbit today is and it's from 

Stephanie Courier founder of inter igoris women  

and Stephanie said I've always subscribed to the 

belief that the best leader is not the one who has  

the most followers but the one who creates the 

most leaders I've strive every day to create a  

more conscious confident and Soulful leaders who 

on return will build a better world for us all and  

that's by Stephan Le Cotler so I hope you enjoyed 

this session of women's empowerment and the queen  

bee syndrome please leave us some feedback let us 

know that you really like this this was horrible  

Tony you know you should have just let her talk by 

yourself right give us all type of feedback right  

what's some of the things that you learned today 

what questions do you still have right what's some  

solutions that you may uh have in terms of the 

queen bee syndrome and women's empowerment so  

please provide us your thoughts and feedback 

at a black executive perspective.com and then  

what we'll do in our next episode we'll go through 

that feedback answer your questions and eventually  

we're going to have you come on and join me here 

as a guest on a black EXE cutive perspective.com  

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