This new episode revolves around the imperative of initiating courageous conversations that can catalyze transformative shifts in both personal and professional spheres. We are joined by the esteemed AmyK Hutchens, a luminary in the realm of communication, who delineates the pivotal role of articulating one's desires in achieving success and fulfillment.

Throughout our dialogue, we delve into the nuanced dynamics of leadership, focusing on the necessity for women to assert their needs in both corporate environments and personal relationships. AmyK shares her profound insights on navigating the complexities of high-stakes discussions, emphasizing the importance of empathy and connection as foundational elements in effective communication.

This episode serves as an invaluable resource for listeners aspiring to cultivate their own voices and drive meaningful change within their spheres of influence.

Our Guest This Week:

Today we have a 🌟Hard-Truth Muse of the Boardroom and Bedroom🌟 in our midst!  

Sex, salary, success—and the sacred art of saying what you want. This week, AmyK Hutchens joins #WisdomOfWomen to talk about the one conversation that could change everything.

AmyK is an internationally acclaimed speaker, two-time Amazon #1 bestselling author, and founder of IgniteBrilliance.com, a global platform empowering leaders to communicate with power, purpose, and profit. A former senior executive of a billion-dollar company and award-winning educator, AmyK has transformed thousands of leaders across ten countries—including teams at Lockheed Martin, Starbucks, and Expedia—through her signature frameworks for navigating high-stakes conversations. She is a master of turning tough conversations into turning points, teaching leaders how to lead with clarity, influence, and emotional intelligence. With an M.S. from Johns Hopkins and features in USA Today, Bloomberg, and Entrepreneur, she is known not only for her brilliant insights but for the contagious energy she brings to every stage. Today, she is redefining how visionary women leaders lead—one courageous, profitable conversation at a time.

Takeaways:

• The journey of self-discovery is essential for women to articulate their needs and desires effectively.
• Effective communication hinges on understanding the dynamics of conversations and the emotions involved.
• Navigating difficult conversations requires a blend of empathy and assertiveness to achieve desired outcomes.
• The significance of owning one's narrative and experiences is paramount in professional growth and personal empowerment.

Chapters:

00:08 Amplifying Women's Leadership

05:30 Pivotal Moments in Life

10:01 The Journey of Self-Discovery

14:27 Understanding the Ego and Heart's Desire

22:58 The Power of Connection in Sales

26:23 Navigating Tough Conversations

30:17 Owning Your Reactions: The Distinct Technique

36:25 Navigating Vulnerability and Asking for Help

44:51 Ending the Conversation: Reflections on Growth and Wisdom

Burning Questions Answered:

1.How can women leaders shift from being overwhelmed to truly empowered in their leadership?

2.What role does communication play in transforming team culture and results?

3.Why is embracing vulnerability one of the most powerful tools for women in business?

4.How do you reframe fear so it becomes fuel for growth instead of a barrier?

5.What are the daily rituals and practices that keep visionary women grounded while scaling?

Favorite Quotes:

Fear isn’t the enemy—it’s simply the brain’s way of inviting us to pay attention.” – AmyK

“The conversations you’re avoiding are the ones holding the most power for your growth.” – AmyK

Guest Offers & Contact Information:

www.amykhutchins.com

https://www.instagram.com/amykhutchens/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amykhutchens/

Follow the #WisdomOfWomen show for more inspiring stories and insights from trailblazing women founders, investors, and experts in growth and prosperity.

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Coco Sellman, the host of #WisdomOfWomen, believes business is a force for good, especially with visionary women at the helm. With over 25 years of entrepreneurial experience, she has launched five companies and guided over 500 startups. As Founder & CEO of A Force for Good, Coco supports purpose-driven women founders in unlocking exponential growth and prosperity. Her recent venture, Allumé Home Care, reached eight-figure revenues and seven-figure profits in just four years before a successful exit in 2024. A venture investor and board director, Coco’s upcoming book, *A Force for Good*, reveals a roadmap for women to lead high-impact, high-growth companies.

Learn more about A Force for Good:

Website: https://aforceforgood.biz/ 

Are Your GROWING or PLATEAUING? https://aforceforgood.biz/quiz/

FFG Tool of the Week: https://aforceforgood.biz/weekly-tool/ 

The Book:  https://aforceforgood.biz/book/ 

Growth Accelerator: https://aforceforgood.biz/accelerator/ 

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice and wisdom of women in business.

A new model of leadership is emerging and we are here to amplify the voices of women leading the way.

I am your host, Kokum Salman, five time founder, impact investor and creator of the Force for Good system.

Thank you for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

So today we have a hard truth muse of the boardroom and bedroom in our midst.

So sex, salary and success and the sacred art of saying what you want.

This week we have Amy K. Hutchins joining us on the Wisdom of Women show to talk about the one conversation that could change everything.

Amy K. Is an internationally acclaimed speaker, two time Amazon number one best selling author and founder of AmyK.com and Ignite brilliance.com, a global platform empowering leaders to communicate with power, purpose and profit.

A former senior executive of a billion dollar company and award winning educator, Amy K. Has transformed thousands of leaders across 10 countries including teams at Lockheed Martin, Starbucks and Expedia through her signature frameworks for navigating high stakes conversations.

She is a master of turning tough conversations into great turning points.

She teaches leaders how to lead with clarity, influence and emotional intelligence.

With an Ms. From Johns Hopkins and features in USA Today, Bloomberg.

An entrepreneur, she is known not only for her brilliant insights but for her contagious energy that she brings to every stage.

Today she is redefining how visionary women lead one courageous, profitable conversation at a time.

Welcome Amy K. My heart is full.

Thanks for having me Coco.

Oh, it's a pleasure.

So much fun.

So tell us, what is a book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your life?

I was 11 years old and in the seventh grade I had to go back and find it and you'll know how old it is by the brown pages that I'm showing you.

But Shakti Gawain and Creative Visualization launched a movement of mind, body and before the Wayne Dyers and Louise Hayes there was Shakti.

And what's so fun for me was I was noticing what I underlined when I was 11.

Oh, it was eye opening to me that I was drawn to it that early in life there's a big difference between knowing and embodying.

The truth was I picked it up again in my 20s.

I moved it when I moved to Shanghai, I moved it again when I moved to London, but it wasn't until my 40s when I embodied it.

I think that's part of the purpose of my path.

I'd love for women to embody it before they hit their 40s.

I love that you had this curiosity about this wisdom within you.

It was percolating even when you were.

11 and you were able to identify.

That there's something more, something really rich inside of you.

Yes.

It's interesting too, because I really do wish for everybody that idea that you're a co creator of your life, what you're thinking, what you're feeling.

Even today, when I woke up from slightly on the wrong side of the bed, it was like, okay, I gotta turn that frown upside down.

As trite as that sounds, that's what Shakti was really talking about way back then is as within, so without.

As within, so without.

Right?

And so no matter what's happening out on the external world, it's all colored.

By how you're looking at it.

So powerful.

And that is our power, right?

To be able to understand the world through a lens of positivity, of enlightenment, curiosity, empathy.

Right.

Sympathy, compassion, sense of humor.

To like, to reduce tension.

We were talking about that before.

You know, these are all things that I think are part of the human journey.

Life is hard.

And so when we can take that sacred pause and say, okay, who do I want to be in this moment?

How do I want to show up?

What's my intention walking into this conversation or event that is life changing?

And it's not trite to say that, it's just truth.

Well, thank you for that.

Shakti Gawain.

Creative Visualization.

Excellent.

I love that you brought this book to listeners.

I was flipping the pages last night, I was like, oh, underlined that.

Should have remembered it.

Here I go, still learning it.

Exactly.

It's a practice.

It's apprentice.

Great.

So you have had quite a career, quite a life.

And I always like to understand who our guests are and share with our listeners through three pivotal, important moments of your life.

Three moments that shaped who you are.

Maybe a bold moment, maybe a courageous moment, maybe a shattering moment.

Tell us three moments that come to mind from your life that really tell us about who you are as a person.

You know, maybe for just lazy thinking.

I'll go in chronological order.

When I was little, Title 9 didn't exist.

And my dad was a coach for my older brother.

So I'm the youngest of three, the only girl never spoiled.

That's my story.

And my dad was the involved dad, which was probably more rare than I realized at the time.

But it was all I knew.

My dad was the coach, my dad was home for dinner.

My dad was engaged and really involved in our lives.

And in the 70s, he looked at me and he said, you are going to keep score of the boys baseball teams.

You're going to go out with us to every practice.

You're going to keep track of all the stats.

I didn't realize at the time what a testament that was to his belief in me.

That one, I belonged, and that two, I was really smart and that I could be included in this.

That was a very seminal moment for me.

I'm a little bit of a tomboy growing up with the boys in sports.

And I grew up with greater confidence because my dad was constantly affirming that I was there and I was smart enough.

And there were times when I was confused by how the whole thing worked and I was learning and trying to keep track of it.

He was never, oh, you can't do this.

Oh, you're not smart enough.

It was the exact opposite.

He's like, you can figure this out.

You can do this.

He would check in on me on occasion.

But I think there's something so powerful about a strong parental or caregiving figure that says, you're amazing.

There's a very solid foundation of confidence in that.

So I would say that was the first seminal moment for me without realizing it at the time.

The second game changer would be more the shattering.

I rebelled later in life, got married really young, divorced two years and 27 days after that marriage, not counting.

And I moved to Shanghai.

It was the furthest place in the world for me to go to figure out who I was going to really be in this world.

And so 16,000 miles around the globe, I walked into a culture.

I didn't speak the language.

I worked for our international school system.

Unlike DoD, this was.

If a company had an executive with children, those children had to go to school somewhere and in that part of the world.

So I grew up in an international community in my 20s, I grew up there for real.

I understood my place in the world.

I understood geopolitics and cultural differences.

It was a blossoming for me.

I would say that was another real strong inflection point in my life.

I've been to Asia a couple of times, and it is so different than the West.

As a young person by yourself, just having left a marriage, you must have been learning and learning and learning.

At that time I was.

And it was one of those Things where a lot of people are like, you're crazy, like you're running away.

And I was like, I'm totally running away.

But to a place where I have to figure out who I am rather than my culture telling me who I am, my own family telling me who I am, an ex who was trying to tell me who I was that I just wasn't.

And so I got to, in a safe way, in an international community, be like, well then who am I going to be?

And of course there have been iterations since then.

I don't have any hang ups on saying that I'm 50.

There are a lot of iterations along the way.

I'm glad that who you are in your 20s is not who you are in your 30s, who's not who you are in your 40s.

And I'm sure I'll be saying the same thing in my 60s.

I love the evolution.

I think that's part of what gets, especially as women, we just get better and better.

We're aware of it and it's so rich and wonderful.

The older we get, the more we value and know ourselves.

So you had a strong parental figure at those early moments and then you had the shatter moment of divorce and moving to Shanghai and figuring yourself out what would be a last moment you could share.

Yeah.

I moved from Shanghai to London and worked for a billion dollar consumer product company.

And I realized after two years that I really wasn't wired for corporate.

I had this vision in China that I would be in this pinstripe power suit, standing in front of the boardroom and I made that vision come true.

Hello.

And then I realized, but this isn't me.

I am not this person.

That was when I made probably more brave than even moving to Shanghai.

I left London, returned to the United States to start my own business, to be an entrepreneur.

Here's the interesting thing.

I had a lot of men around me tell me, you're not strong enough, you're not smart enough, you're not courageous enough, you're not creative enough.

I mean, I had every limiting belief thrown at me.

I also have an amazing mother.

I called my parents and I said, I'm thinking about quitting this corporate job that I've worked so hard for and coming back to the United States and starting my own business.

And my parents instantly said, well, if there's anybody that can do it, it's you.

And I was like, oh my gosh.

Because I thought I was going to get all this, like, oh, I don't know, be safe Play safe.

They didn't.

They were wildly confirming of me.

So it was just great.

So I moved back and of course, it was a lot harder than I anticipated.

A lot harder.

But here we are.

So we will be 25 years old this December.

That's awesome.

To be in it for 25 years and having that incredible experience.

I feel like those of us who were born as founders, it was a calling.

We don't have a choice.

I wish I had wanted to go be in corporate because it would have.

Been easier in a lot of ways.

Right.

You just fall into a structure.

You follow a process, and as long as you play according to the rules, you can kind of get there.

Right.

But not with entrepreneurship.

It's tough, and it's wonderful.

It's the best thing in the world if you're designed to be an entrepreneur.

Yep.

So I love that.

And this brings me to your book, because this book, ladies and gentlemen who are listening, get it Five steps to the sex, salary, and success you want.

This book is so fun and engaging.

And let's see if I can get it in there.

There we go.

It's so fun and so engaging, and it's really good stuff.

It's about having these hard conversations that propel your life forward.

And Amy Kay is irreverent and funny and honest, and it just softens the edges as you think about some of these things.

So I want to come back to.

This thing about thinking you wanted to be in corporate and then realizing, no, this isn't for me.

And so you have in your book five different areas, but the first thing you talk about is clarifying what you want and what a life journey that is in and of itself.

Tell us about this.

Tell us about clarifying what you want.

How we can name and identify better what we want so we can actually have it.

There's a lot of noise.

The world is telling you who you should be all the time.

What's ironic about advertising, and this is not some new revelation.

Everybody knows this.

Advertising wants you to feel bad before you feel better.

Marketing tends to say, look, you're not pretty enough until you use this product.

You're not smart enough until you buy this software program.

And so there is a lot of mixed messaging out there.

I remember as a kid standing in the grocery line, seeing the magazine cover that would be like, lose 10 pounds by Thursday.

And then right underneath it, the most fabulous chocolate cake recipe you'll ever have in your entire life.

I remember thinking, that doesn't actually go together.

And we get trained to Hear the noise clarifying what you want is that.

Can you step out of your ego long enough?

The ego is great for writing an injustice, but the ego is also keeping you small.

The ego wants you to play safe.

The ego wants you to feel like your best version, but that's a very small version of who you are.

The ego can also be very pernicious in casting doubt and shame and guilt and all these other sensitive emotions.

For me, the most important conversation that you have with yourself is, what does my heart want?

Not what my ego says I should do or how I should feel, but what does my heart really want?

For women especially, that can be really hard to hear.

We can be like, oh, well, I should be the good girl, or I should follow this or I should do that.

Your heart will continue to tend the fire.

It will continue to keep your life force lit, but sometimes it'll take a backseat while your ego just dominates and trashes the house.

But if you can slow down long enough to say, what is it that I really want?

What am I called to do?

How do I want to play in the world?

That's a very powerful thing course.

And so to me, it was the I still want to teach.

I still want to train.

I was a frustrated actress.

It's like, I want to be on stage.

And I found a way to do it through speaking and training, but I didn't want to do it under the thumb of some corporate entity.

And I'm not wired to sit at a desk.

And so to me, it was already the, I can't do this.

I can't sit at a desk from 9 to 5.

I can't play this good girl.

I don't like working my ass off to have somebody come along and say, well, we're going to give you a 4 out of 5 on your annual review in this one particular area because we need you to have room for improvement.

And I was sort of like, you don't know how much you just demotivated me.

All of that was going on on the inside, while I looked like on the outside, everything was going well.

I had the pinstripe suit.

I was standing for the board.

I was starting to speak.

Sales were skyrocketing.

The more that I trained externally, it looked great.

Internally, it was like, I am so misaligned, and I don't know what to do about it.

In your book, I love, there's a series of exercises to help you think and sort of strip down.

Sometimes we.

We see the marketing, like the pinside striped suit and.

And we see something in that person that we think we want.

We replicate the idea of what we want and what we think that is.

But really it's not necessarily the corporate job.

It's this woman who feels empowered, brave, values her place in the world, making.

Money, and who has autonomy, independence and freedom.

Danielle Laporte, let's give her credit, she put the desire map on the map.

She does this beautiful sort of jiu jitsu, which is, how do you want to feel?

Yes.

And then based on those feelings, how do you want to map out your life and your core objectives, desires and goals?

And so that was really that seminal moment of what do I want?

Well, I want freedom.

And freedom was such a driver for me.

I wanted autonomy.

I wanted control over my schedule.

I also, full transparency, wanted to work really hard for myself and be rewarded for it.

Now, I think every woman entrepreneur knows that not all years are created equal.

So there were years where it was like, okay, making the money.

And there were other years where it's like, I would love to make some money.

So you get a little bit more of that wild ride instead of that steady corporate paycheck.

But I wouldn't trade it.

And it's clarifying what you want and then realizing when you're in it, like, oh, yeah, this is what I want.

Like, maybe this moment is uncomfortable because I'm not making as much money as I want, but the bare picture of what I want or have and I'm still doing my thing.

So much of being able to go out and have what you want and get what you want is to have these difficult conversations and high stakes moments where we have to make choices and ask for what we want.

And you have a whole section on what we're seeking.

Are we seeking connection or power?

And you say we must choose connection or power, but not both.

So this was such a radical reframe for me, especially when women are taught to please over compromise.

So tell us more about this distinction around connection or power and how those get in the way when we're asking.

For what we want, want.

To me, the irony is that it's not power over, it's power with.

And it's always connection first.

And so the idea is I have a mantra.

Soft heart, firm spine.

Soft heart means I'm going to connect with you first.

Doesn't mean I'm going to be a doormat because I have a firm spine.

But if I start with the cold heart, I'm going to be distant, unapproachable, maybe inflexible.

Or rigid.

If I start with the soft spine, I'm going to be a pushover.

The soft heart, firm spine is this beautiful mantra of I'm going to show up and connect with you.

So here, here's the classic example.

Suppose you are in corporate.

Suppose that you're not an entrepreneur and you're looking for a raise.

Most of us will come in and we'll be like, I deserve a raise.

I should be paid more.

People are making more money, and here's what I want to ask for.

We make it all about ourselves.

When we walk in with that desire to connect first, we're stepping into our boss's shoes and saying, here's the things that I've contributed to make our team successful.

Where are you going?

What's our vision?

How can I take on more responsibility?

How can I demonstrate more leadership?

How can I ensure that we get these objectives across the finish line?

Well, then, based on my added responsibilities and how excited I am to bring this vision of yours to life, I would like to talk about additional salary.

I'd like to talk about a promotion.

And all of a sudden you're looking at it from a very different lens of, I want to be an even more significant contributor.

Rather than me just coming in and demanding a salary increase or demanding a promotion.

Now, the person you're talking to is listening because you've included them, you've connected with them on their own vision.

If we bring it home to the personal world, there's that classic phrase, coco, we need to talk.

And everybody's like, Gertrude.

Lines like, I don't know what's coming.

It's probably a hand grenade that's about to be thrown.

What have I done?

And am I in trouble?

Leading with love sounds so woo woo.

Until you realize just how effective it is.

As you talked about this example of first really connecting and then seeing how we can work together, seeing how power with you works.

With asking for a raise, I can imagine it works extremely well with employees.

It probably works really well too.

With asking for Business.

Do you have experiences where you've seen that kind of thing work well with asking for Business?

Well, having been a sales trainer for a very long time, one of the things is, again, to not pitch it is to connect and educate.

And so I have a fun, a fun story from not that long ago where I had a coaching client and she called me and like, literally, you know, she called me out of the blue and she's like, and again, you are my dealer and I need a hit.

And of course, and Just for everybody who's listening?

Dealer.

She means coach, right?

Yeah.

And by hit, she means, like energy, like she needs to hit a mode.

Like she is just not in a good place.

And so I said to her, it was so funny.

I was like, okay, you know what's going on.

And this is real world, right?

So she's in sales, she's got to go to our conference, she's networking.

And she's like, I have to go to this expo and I do not want to go.

And I think we can all relate.

She said to me, and I quote, she's like, I want to go back to the hotel room, I want to take off my Spanx, I want to pour a glass of wine and I want to crawl under the covers.

And I was like, okay, what's your sales goal?

She was like, I have to do a little over 400,000.

Like that's my commitment in this hour.

And I was like, okay, this is the world that she plays in.

This is a stretch goal.

But this is not like her selling 999 gadgets.

She's got to sell a million of them.

Right?

So this is her world.

And I said, okay, here's what we're going to do.

You're going to go and you are going to connect about something that's passionate.

And at that time, we were all excited about Farm Girl Flowers.

Farm Girl Flowers is this nationwide thing.

They're beautiful arrangements.

I'm not an ambassador.

I don't get any kickbacks.

They're just fabulous.

And I had sent her a bouquet.

Farm Girl Flowers.

I sent her some Farm Girl flowers.

You know how much you love them.

Just go talk Farm Girl Flowers with all of your folks.

And she's like, I can do that.

I have a text that I have memorialized on my phone.

Because when I asked her the next day how the expo went, she said, we did over a million dollars in sales and it was so fun.

And here's the difference.

She wasn't pitching a product.

Yeah.

She was connecting with people about something that was super passionate.

And then we role played just enough on our call that I said, take the passion you have for Farm Girl Flowers and then naturally segue it into how much passion you have for this new offering that your company is providing.

But I don't start with, I have this new product and you must have it.

Just go and be you.

That led to seven figures of success for her in an hour.

That is the power of sales.

If you're reaching out to your employees, it's the Same thing.

You are not convincing anybody of anything.

You're connecting.

You're sharing your own passion.

And then you have this firm spine of either expectation or the firm spine in that case, could be.

And this is the concrete structure around it.

Yes.

This is where we're going.

This is the ship that we're going to be on.

Do you want to row with us?

Yes.

Great.

I love that.

And, you know, leading with your passion, your connection, what matters to you, the things that really come from your heart, not from your head.

So the next piece you talk about is that there's all kinds of conversations happening whenever you're having a conversation.

So your advice is to tune in to all the conversations.

What does that mean?

And tell us how that can help us as we're navigating our relationships.

There are so many dynamics going on in a conversation.

You and I are having a conversation right now.

Right.

I'm having a conversation in the back of my head to make sure.

Am I adding value?

Am I giving the listeners something that's concrete and tangible?

You know, am I asking questions that are going to help my listeners?

Yeah.

It's no different when it comes inside of our businesses.

If I work for you, if I'm a direct report and I come to you and I say, frank's driving me crazy, Frank's incompetent.

I'm forgetting that you hired Frank.

And it's very possible that when I tell you that Frank is incompetent, you're now perceiving that as, am I incompetent?

Do I hire incompetent people?

What does that say about me?

And so you have to be aware that there is a conversation that's going on between the two of us, but there's a conversation that's going on inside of, what does this say about me?

What does this mean to my world?

Which is why it's so important to actively listen to what somebody is saying.

And before reacting, think about what it is that you want to say that's going to help you respond thoughtfully.

For instance, if I came to you and I was like, oh, my gosh, Frank's driving me crazy, you're not going to be like, I thought Frank was amazing, and get all defensive.

You're going to literally take that sacred beat and say, tell me more what's going on?

And I might have a very specific complaint that you're like, we can solve that.

Or I might just be venting because I'm having a bad day.

But instead of you reacting, you're going to take that beat and say, amy K. Tell me more or give me an example of what's going on because you're very aware that who knows what other conversation is going on inside of my head?

Or the flip.

Suppose I'm going to talk to an investor.

What's in it for him or her?

Suppose I'm going to talk to somebody about their own performance.

What's in it for them?

I have to take a beat to say, this conversation is beyond what I just want.

There are other wants that are going on.

There's other identities, there's other egos, there's other hearts in this conversation.

And that's part of the prep.

I talk a lot about the life that you want is on the other side of a tough conversation.

And to navigate that tough conversation, the most important work is preparing for it and thinking it through about what could be going on in that person.

So again, if I were saying, I need to talk to you about Frank, I'm going to prepare a soft heart approach and a firm spine to say, hey, want to talk to you about Frank.

And making him an even more integrative and successful team player.

So he's been on board for about nine months.

I know you hired him.

So I'm thinking about that in the back of my mind.

He's really great in product knowledge.

I think we need to work on his presentation skills.

He's a little bit of a know it all.

He's a little bit less in tune, emotionally intelligent from an emotional intelligence standpoint when he talks to a customer.

So are you open to helping Frank in these two areas?

Because I think it would really help all of us.

Now that's a very different approach than me walking in and be like, frank is on my very last nerve.

This is ridiculous.

It sounds so silly to hear like, well, of course you wouldn't do that.

Except that we do do that.

We react a lot.

Especially if you're in the office and working with your team.

You're under stress.

If somebody busts in and says this to you, Frank's not doing his job.

It's not on my agenda today.

This is not what I want to deal with.

These are the conversations I'm having in my head.

So it's very.

And I feel like there's ways for us to improve in how we tune into those conversations and also knowing how we can set things up so that we'll be the best.

You know, let's expand.

Yeah, let's expand that roleplay for just a second.

I burst into your office unannounced.

You're completely involved in a critical thinking moment.

You know you're on your agenda and I come and tried to hijack your day.

Yes.

So soft heart, firm spine.

You look at me and you say, wow, Amy K. You sound so frustrated.

Am I hearing you accurately?

Are you frustrated?

And I'm like, more annoyed.

Perfect.

Because you've said, I care enough to identify an emotion.

I'm humble enough to ask, am I hearing you right?

Are you frustrated?

I course correct and go, oh, just annoyed.

And then you do this beautiful firm spine, boundary.

You say, Amy K. This is important enough that it deserves a real conversation and a real moment.

I'm in the middle of something and you and this issue deserves my full attention.

So then you have the right to say the boundary.

Give me 15 minutes and I'll come by and we'll circle back.

Or I can't talk about this right now.

Yeah.

And I need to think about it and finish this.

So let's table this until 4 o' clock or maybe tomorrow.

Yeah.

Here's when I'm available, where I will.

Send you an email with sometimes I'm free.

You're also saying, this is important enough that it deserves my attention and I can't give you my attention right now.

Yes.

And you're also not going to be hijacked by somebody else's urgency when you're like, okay, now if I were to come in and tell you that, like, the building's on fire, that's different.

But I'm just coming in and telling you I'm annoyed with somebody.

And one of.

I'm known for magical phrases and I love my magical phrases mainly because I learned them when it was too late, like six hours later when I wish I could have said something else.

Yeah.

But you can also do the magical phrase of, okay, Nikki, how are you hoping that I respond to this?

And you're like, I want you to fire Frank.

And you're like, okay, I'm unable to hire or fire Frank.

But here's what I am willing to do.

Willing to talk to you about this at 4 o'clock today.

I will give you my undivided attention, but let's push this to four.

Does four work for you?

So again, I'm leaning in, but I have a firm spine.

Yeah, I love that.

Beautiful.

Really great examples, too.

So then you talk about owning your shit.

And I love that because it's really easy to go in and complain about Frank.

Yeah.

Right.

And by the way, my husband's name is Frank.

Love keeping him.

But when I think about.

And now we're going into marriage.

So when we talk about in your book this, sex, money and success or power, it's important for us to own our shit.

And you have this term distinct theirs.

Yes.

What is that?

I love this.

And I wish I'd learned this a long time ago, because when I found it, it really is magical.

Owning your shit means we all step in it.

We all have missteps.

We say things that we don't mean to.

We do things in a state of egoic hijacking.

I got really good later in life about saying, wait, I did not mean to say that.

That was a reaction.

Here's my more thoughtful response and just being really quick about it.

Or suppose you need to go back and apologize for something you said a week prior.

Own that.

So I might come back to you and say, hey, Coco, I thought I could let this go and I just can't.

It keeps taking up headspace.

I reacted last week and that was not my finest moment and I owe you an apology and I want to apologize for saying that.

Now.

If the other person doesn't want to accept your apology, that's on them.

Yeah.

You are not responsible for somebody else's reactions.

I'll give you a classic example.

About five years ago, I was very quick to react to somebody in a meeting.

The wrong thing to say when somebody is emotional is to call them out as being super.

And it's like, I know better not to do that.

It's like telling somebody to calm down when they're not.

You just don't know it.

So I very quickly caught myself and I owned my shit.

And I said, I am so sorry.

It was completely not what I meant to say.

That was a reaction.

My thoughtful response is, your concerns are valid and we need to talk about it.

It was too late.

This person decided that I was awful.

And here's what I had to tell myself.

That's also a choice.

That's everybody's where they're at.

So I stayed calm.

I met them where they were at.

It was not pretty for several minutes.

And that's okay.

We can face these things.

The distinct technique is a beautiful way to, and I'll use the analogy, take either the wind out of somebody's sail or stop the grenade from going off.

So let's just say Frank, now a husband comes to you and he's holding up this whole thing of wilted lettuce.

And he's like, we always buy too much lettuce.

We always Waste so much lettuce.

I'm tired of spending all this money on lettuce that we waste.

Now I'm being silly, but I think some of you can relate.

There's usually something in the refrigerator.

We often throw away.

Instead of getting defensive and being like, well, I'm on a green smoothie kick and I'm trying to live health.

Like, we get all defensive, right?

The Destinck technique is really simple because it's two lines.

Throwing away lettuce frustrates me too.

Will you help me?

So it could be anything.

It could be like forgetting to take out the trash bins frustrates me too.

Will you help me?

It could be anything that if somebody is annoyed, frustrated, upset about, you can be like that.

Frustrates, annoys, like whatever emotion they're saying, you agree with that.

But then here's the kicker.

Will you help me?

Because now what you've done is you said you can move from venting, complaining and attacking to being on my side.

Usually what I joke is the pin from the grenade has already been pulled.

So they're going to be like, no, I'm serious.

You know, I'm going to throw this grenade at you.

I am upset about this.

And all you do is double down on the distinct technique.

No, I'm serious.

It does.

It frustrates me too.

Will you help me?

And all of a sudden, they've moved from attacker to problem solver.

And it's a beautiful shift in energy.

Yes.

So my take on this is, what you're saying is, first of all, I'm not in a defensive position.

And I'm not saying that you're wrong.

What I'm saying is I'm not sure that I'm going to do this on my own.

So rather than ganging up on me, just become my ally.

And then here's what happens.

You shift the energy, but you also shift the role that that person plays.

If they're not sincere about being your ally and all they want to do is attack, then that's a different conversation.

But if they're like, oh, okay, you're not trying to be difficult.

You're not trying to annoy me.

This is just something that we can maybe figure out a new system for or a new way to approach it, then you're back in that frequency of support, ally, friendship, love, whatever it is.

Will you help me?

It's disarming and softening, and I love that.

That's really great.

And it would be the unbelievable number of subscriptions for 299 that appear on.

Our credit cards every month.

Okay, but isn't that beautiful?

Yeah, Go, go.

Let's roleplay really quick.

Yes, exactly.

All right, so if I come to you and I'm like, kabo, there's at least 12, 299 numbers on this credit card statement.

What is going on?

Oh, I hate all those subscriptions.

I frustrates me, too.

Will you help me?

I love it.

Good job.

And notice the difference.

That is such a flip on the, oh, I'm trying to do things for her family.

And it completely shifts from defensiveness to, let's move forward together.

Right?

And this is.

I think about this in all the places that founders have this.

Sometimes as a founder, we think everything is on us, which at the end of the day, the buck stops with us.

That's true.

But we don't have to solve every problem and every reason an employee comes to us and has an issue.

Right.

We don't have to.

And so this is such a great way.

How can you help me with this?

And I think for entrepreneurs, sometimes it can feel very vulnerable to ask for help.

And somebody comes to you and says, the wi fi is intermittent again, Right?

And instead of taking that on, like, okay, I'll call them back, right?

Because you're wearing all these hats, you're spinning all these plates.

You look at that individual and say, you know what?

It's driving me crazy, too.

Will you help me?

Will you please call the Internet provider and see if we can't find a better solution?

Like, all of a sudden, it's this beautiful way.

And by the way, that is also a magical phrase now.

So let's keep going with that is a fantastic way to ask for help, because it's giving somebody agency.

It's not dictatorial.

Call the IT company.

Call that subscription service provider, which sounds very authoritarian.

And nobody want.

No adult really wants to be told.

Everybody loves to be asked.

Nobody wants to be told.

So when you say, hey, would you be willing to help me?

As soon as that person says, yes, it is their own agency, it is their own good idea, and now they can put on the cape and be the superhero.

You talk about the cape in your book, right?

Like, when you wear the cape and when somebody else wears the cape, I think that's really powerful and useful to all of us.

So then you talk about, know your lines, and here's where you're talking about boundaries, what to say and where to draw them.

Tell us a little bit about this.

Ann Lalant did a beautiful job of telling us that no was a complete sentence.

And I loved that when I read no is a complete sentence.

Was my upbringing.

It was maybe, no, thank you, but that's still a complete sentence.

And so it's this beautiful way of saying, do I have a magical phrase?

Can I hold my own?

And this really comes from a sense of vulnerability.

The irony about my past is that despite all the confidence that my parents gave me and all the love, I was very insecure about holding my own with others, especially dominating authority figures, I would turn red.

I would get a little verklempt or not know what to say and my throat would get tight.

It wasn't until I went to grad school that I realized this is all natural.

You know, the mind, body connection, the physiological response.

Everything happening on a systolic level is a reaction to the fact that we're anxious or we're nervous or that we just care.

I mean, that's the thing that for women, I often say is don't apologize for caring.

Like, if you turn red and get a little teary eyed, you don't have to say, I'm sorry.

Just take a deep breath and say, okay, clearly this matters to me.

That's a whole energy shift too, because it does.

Otherwise you wouldn't be this worked up.

So the knowing your lines was a hard journey for me.

The holding my own, knowing what to say, putting guardrails around something, you know, somebody would come and say, you know, something egregious or offensive or dismissive or just rude.

And over time you learn these magical phrases.

And so that was sort of my know your lines, literally the words that you say or where to draw them.

And to me, the magical phrase wasn't so much this perfect script as it was just a line to hold your own.

Somebody would come and say, you know, Jane is going to the bathroom.

Do you know that Jane goes to the bathroom like five times day?

And like, I'm not making this up.

Like, this was a corporate world experience.

And I was like, well, what are you hoping that I do about Jane?

But I didn't know that at the moment.

I was like, this is weird, this is awkward.

I'm taking notes that Jane's going to the back.

I don't know what to do.

And now somebody comes in and I really, oh, you're the bathroom monitor.

Like, yeah, go back to work.

But now that.

Very grounded, very mature.

Oh, well, how are you hoping that I responded?

Well, I just thought you should know, you know, or somebody would come to me and they'd be Like, Doug heated fish in the communal microwave.

And I'd be like, okay, so what do you want me to do?

Put up a sign?

The Poseidon's armpit, like, is now, you know, in the.

So it was like, what do you want me to do?

And I would be all tongue tied until I realized, wait a minute.

Soft heart, firm spine.

What are you hoping that I do?

I think dumb should be penalized or banned from the community kitchen.

I'm like, okay, well, we're not banning, you know, Doug, but here's what I am willing to do.

The next time somebody does fish, we'll call it an ocean crime scene or something like, well, we're going to find some humor with this.

But the truth is, I'm now more confident in holding my own and saying, yeah, we're not escalating this.

Beautiful.

And we can all use that, whether it's with our employees or our teammates.

Or our investors or our children.

Right?

Our friends, the.

The ladies that, you know, where we drop our kids off and whatever their business is.

Right?

We can.

We can use that everywhere.

It's happening everywhere.

And it's happening everywhere.

Sometimes it's slowing down long enough.

One of my favorite magical phrases is when somebody says something really hurtful, Taking a beat and looking at them and saying, I can't imagine how much pain you must be in to have said that.

What's going on?

And that's a beautiful way of saying, I'm not taking this.

Or you can also say, hey, it's not like you to say something that hurtful.

Did you mean to sound so hurtful?

What's going on?

Right.

So you're giving somebody the grace of, you've got to be in pain.

So let's not make this about the attack that you just made.

Let me try to connect with you.

I love that.

I can't imagine how much pain you must be feeling for this to be going on.

I think that's a brilliant phrase to use.

I'm just thinking of all the moments when I could use that where somebody says something, and rather than becoming defensive, I have a way to not just take it or become angry, but to actually be able to hear and listen and also let them know that, like, wow, that was a lot to say.

Tell me more.

You've given us so much, Amy K. You've given us a whole tranche of wisdom, like a masterclass on communication.

And I cannot explain how much I appreciate your wisdom.

For everybody listening, it's this great book.

Get it?

Five Steps to the Sex salary success you want?

I always like to do a fast fire round of five questions to answer in less than five words.

Are you ready?

I guess so.

Here we go.

First word that comes to mind when you hear power?

Authenticity.

What's your sassiest guilty pleasure?

Oracle Cards.

Favorite phrase you actually use in tough conversations?

My state of being is my number one doing.

My state of being is my number one doing Beautiful.

Go to fix for a shit day.

Walk or gin and tonic.

Yes.

And what instantly makes you feel like you again?

My morning practice Beautiful how can listeners learn more about you and your services?

Amyk.com, am yk.com it will take you to ignite brilliance.

And.

I'll say this, it's a journey.

And so even if you're starting to practice all of these things, just remember it's a practice.

I'm 53 years old and I'm still coming up with magical phrases of something that I wish I'd said yesterday.

So it's just a journey.

Love that.

Thank you.

Amy K. Thank you for joining us today on the Wisdom of Women Show.

Thank you for illuminating the path to unlocking opportunities for growth and prosperity for women led enterprises.

We value your wisdom and to all of our world changing listeners, be sure to follow like and share the Wisdom of Women show on whatever your favorite listening reviewing platform is and to infuse more of your wisdom into your business, take the Growth readiness quiz at TheForceForGood Bits Quiz Quest and uncover where your insight is needed most.

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Let's all go make the world a better place.

Thank you.