This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) go properly deep on the comparison trap, & why it gets so much louder in the summer. Sophie deletes Instagram the second she goes on holiday, because a sun lounger plus a scroll turns into "should I be running a birthday sale, should I have an ads funnel making me £1,000 a day while I'm away", & the spiral is easier to remove than to manage.

What we get into is that we're never comparing like for like.

We're holding our full messy reality up against someone else's highlight, & the thing that stings tells you what you actually want.

For Sophie it's money & financial security. For Ruthie it's time, & the people who seem to take the whole summer off with ease. Same trap, completely different wound, & knowing which one is yours changes what you do with it.

In this episode:

• Why the comparison spikes in summer, & the difference between being triggered by money & being triggered by time
• The "proof it's possible" reframe (via Lucy Sheridan) for the accounts that wind you up
• Why the thing that triggers you is usually pointing at what you actually want
• How the goalposts moving, someone you look up to stepping back, quietly makes you doubt your own goals
• Re-curating a feed that's slowly stopped serving you, & why nobody tells the hard story until it's safely behind them

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

When you're ready, here's the next step:

Outrageous – for established women coaches and service providers who want one offer designed to hit 6 figures without them being the engine of every sale. [Find out more]

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I

Care?, with me, Sophie Griffiths

And me, Ruthie Walmsley

How are you doing?

I'm doing really well.

but I think we're gonna jump straight in this week, Soph, because we've

got a lot of ground to cover.

Why don't you tell people, the overarching question for this week's episode?

I am literally so excited about this one.

And it's taken us a little bit of time to be able to frame this question, because

I think there is so much underneath it that it was quite hard to, like,

pull out, . what is the thread here?

And we ended up being able to do it because of an experience

I have when I go on holiday.

So the overarching question we are asking today is, should I care that the

comparison trap is stealing my summer?

Oh,

you see?

so juicy.

And the reason why this came up for us and we decided to talk about it is

because, we're recording this before I go on holiday, however, when you

listen to it, I will have been away.

Now, I am going away with my family for a week.

It's our, main family holiday for the year.

I'm actually also turning 40 while I'm there.

Whoop-whoop.

And I have learned, I've been, what, running my own business for, what,

eight, nine years now, and I have learned over that time that there are

certain things that I have to do to protect my peace while I'm on holiday.

Now, really obvious ones are, like, a few years ago, I managed to not take

my laptop with me, and well done me.

Then I started actually deleting my email app, deleting my Slack app, and

actually, not responding to clients.

But I was still finding that, I yes, I was away from clients,

and yes, I was, , feeling rested, but I was still on Instagram.

And partly because , I use Instagram for personal stuff, I like browsing

on Instagram, I have friends on Instagram, so it doesn't feel

to me like a purely work app.

However, what I realized was that it brings up all sorts of horrible

comparison in me, and very specifically when I then can't action anything So

normally might see something online and be like, "Oh, that's a good idea.

Oh, I could do that," or, "I'm gonna put it on my list," it's a bit of comparison,

and I might feel a bit crap about myself.

Like, but I would say I'm reasonably good at not being

too comparison-y on Instagram.

I've, trained myself.

But when it gets me, I'm on a sun lounger, and I've committed to not

working, and all I am thinking is, "Oh, that person's doing a birthday sale.

Oh, well, it's my birthday this week.

Should I have done a birthday sale?

Why?

Oh, well, I could probably get a few emails.

I could probably get Claude to write a few emails, and I could probably send

them to Nicola, and she could probably get them into MailerLite Or I might see

someone who's like, "Oh, I've just got back from holiday, and I made £1,000 every

day while I was away from my incredible ads funnel." And I might be like, my

God, I'm not earning £1,000 a day while I'm on holiday from my ads funnel.

Maybe I should… Ooh, what could I do?

Maybe I could see if I could sell something on ads." And honestly, my brain

just then goes into overdrive, and it just creates massive comparison, I think,

about whether I'm, am I doing it right?

Should I still be on Instagram while I'm on holiday?

I see other people putting stories on their Instagram when they're on holiday.

Maybe they're less addicted to social media than I am.

, Maybe I'm doing that wrong.

So as you can hear, of spiraling that goes on, hence the rule that we now have

in my family/with me is that I delete Instagram when I go on holiday because the

Yeah

just opens up too much for me to be able to cope with

How do you feel?

Do you feel itchy at all when you're not on Instagram, or do you actually just

feel, super relieved that it's gone?

So I would say like the first 24 hours I feel … It's not that I feel

itchy I want to be on Instagram, but what I will notice is that moments of

uncomfortableness, i.e., if I'm bored or if I'm like, 'cause we are doing like a

six-hour drive to get where we're going.

Yeah, so it's gonna be really hard for me not to be on Instagram because

normally I would be on Instagram.

I'd maybe create a few posts.

I'd be really efficient.

So if we have any long journeys I'm often like, "Oh, I can write that

email. I can respond to that DM that I haven't gone back to." moments where

it feels uncomfortable for me is that I use Instagram and the dopamine from

it to get myself through boring bits.

so that will feel really uncomfortable, and I will do weird shit like check

the weather app loads or check my personal emails, or I will try and find

Yeah

check WhatsApp an extraordinary amount of times.

They call it dopamining, don't they?

Where you go mining for dopamine

that is literally exactly what I'm doing.

I, so I've

That probably for the first 24 hours or so will feel really uncomfortable.

Then I will really get into it, and I will love being off Instagram, and

I will probably end up finding it quite hard to come back on because

I will get to a point where I'm like, "Oh, this is actually really

lovely." "Oh, there's just no noise.

Like, how

that's I'm at

Yeah

do you do?

Do you delete Instagram when you go

No, I don't.

And, but that's not to say that I don't feel the same about the comparison trap.

And, I think summer's one of those times where it kind of peaks, because

Agreed

lots of people sharing how they approach the summer, whether summer's

a good time for them financially, whether they take loads of time off.

For me, the bit that triggers me, if you like, or the trap that I get

into is less about, comparison when it comes to the money that people

are making, and more comparison about the time that they're able to take.

And I think that's born from the fact that when I decided to move out of

education and into my own business, it was a choice I was making based on what

I wanted my day-to-day life to look like.

So I wanted to be able to be super present in my little boy's life.

I wanted to be able to enjoy the weekends, because at the time, all of my weekends

were spent marking and planning and catching up on the stuff that I hadn't

had chance to do because I was teaching.

And so I think the reason why I'm not pulled into comparison so much with

people's financials, but I am when I see that they're taking, really long

restful breaks, or they are spending loads of time with their children.

now I do spend loads of time with Wilf in the summer, and I'm really lucky.

if I compare my life now to my life previously, I'm really lucky with

the amount of time I spend with him.

I am incredibly present for all things to do with his school

life and all that sort of stuff.

But when I see people taking the whole summer off, not my ex-teacher

friends, my online business comparison, I'm like, "I should do that.

I should do that." That's the one that gets me a little bit.

If I see people spending loads of time with their kids, despite the fact

that I do spend loads of time with Wilf in the summer, I'm balancing it.

today, it's my husband's day off, so he's spending loads of time with Wilf,

and I will work a really long day.

So I will try and get loads of work done today.

they're the ones that get me.

That is the one, in the summer specifically and at Christmastime,

it gets me where I'm thinking, "I should be spending more time with

my family." they're the triggers for me specifically in the summer.

So I don't delete Instagram because when I'm on holiday, I feel like I'm

really spending quality time with my family, so it doesn't trigger me as much.

I'm like, "Yeah, that's fine. Look at me. I'm on, a 10-day holiday, so I'm

winning at life." but I do have to delete Slack, and I do have to delete

my work email because what I then do, which is so unhealthy if I don't do it,

is I read them but don't action them.

So then I just carry them around with me for the entirety of my holiday,

having to try putting them back on unread, but, I already know…

awful.

Awful.

Actually, on my last holiday, we were changing the way we were

working together because you were closing one of your offers.

Oh, Yeah, Yeah,

And I don't know why I did this, but normally I delete it all in

the car on the way to the airport, 'cause I'm like, "Right, that's

my official sign-off point."

I didn't.

I then forgot.

Got to the airport on the other side.

So we'd landed in, I wanna say Fuerteventura, and

I went for a wee, right?

You know when you get to luggage claim.

I was like, "Right, I'm going for a wee. The boys will get

the bags." Went for a wee.

Listened to your Slack voice note, at which the start of it you said,

"Don't listen to this on holiday.

It's not important.

We can chat when you're back." But I listened to it whilst having a wee in

the holiday airport, and then was just like, couldn't do anything about it.

Wasn't the right time to be having a chat with you while I was in an airport.

so then.

I was just like, "What am I doing?"

So I need to remember this year.

And it wasn't there was anything bad, it's just like I was carrying

that then and I was thinking, I must remember." and you can't help your

thoughts branching off, can you?

And start thinking about things and thinking, "Right, okay,

maybe I'll do this instead or…"

So yeah, I definitely delete Slack.

I definitely delete my work emails.

but also, I have a personal Instagram account and a work Instagram

account, and my feeds for those two things are very different.

So I just don't go on my First Person Narrative account unless I

particularly feel like I want to.

And I stay in my personal account, which is all like, supermarket recommendations,

and books that I should be reading, and, announcements about Taylor Swift.

That's what's in my personal feed.

So that's the safety there.

I think part of me working in social, I really curate my feed.

So yeah, I can switch one off if I don't wanna be on it.

yeah and I think all that is super, sensible.

And the Sophie of three years ago who, like you said, did exactly what

you said, opened things, tried not to reply, had my out of office on, but just

wanted to keep an eye on everything, that was that real just needing to

keep a- an overview on everything.

I, look back and, I don't think, "Oh, that's such a shame. She should've

just switched off," because at the time I just wasn't in the place

where that felt safe for me to do.

and there was all sorts going on underneath that, and I'm really

pleased I'm not there anymore.

I do still struggle with, if I have time off when I'm at So I'm gonna have a week

off this summer, when we move, in August at some point when it's finally confirmed.

so I will just be at home for the week.

Now that I find really hard because I'm now much better, like you

say, on the way to the airport it feels like a sort of routine.

I'm like, "Right, I'm deleting everything.

Everyone knows I'm away.

I'm gonna switch it all off.

It's all gone." But when I'm at home for a week, that feels

really hard to not do that.

but, I guess the bigger picture of what we wanna talk about here

is what you're comparing yourself.

So when you say "Oh, people have the whole summer off," and for me

when I'm like, "Oh, they're making 1,000 pounds a day," or whatever it

is we're comparing our reality what they're projecting on Instagram,

Yes

And I think in summer this becomes really exaggerated because it's like, "Oh my God.

Look.

Yeah, they're spending their whole day.

They've had an incredible day out with their kids, and I've been here

working all day." the reality is they might work until midnight or

2:00 AM to get then things done, and I've had clients who have done that.

, they will literally start work at 10 o'clock at night and

work through until 2:00 AM.

I couldn't do that because physically that's just not me.

But just think it's really hard to, in any season, I do think summer exacerbates

it a bit, look at someone's doing and really know is that what they're doing.

And we all talk about like the Instagram gloss, and I'm not really

saying that anyone should have to share everything about their life

because I just think that's just not the reality and like I don't wanna

No

everything about my life, and I don't wanna share every time I work late

and every time it's a bit rubbish.

But also, I think the summer somehow brings out in us this feeling of

wanting to share the best bits, the fun bits, the great bits.

And it can feel hard, even if you're doing the same thing, 'cause I do it as well,

Yeah

accept that that is not their full reality

Totally.

It's like we know in theory, we know we're getting a highlights reel even

when people are really quite candid online, of which, both of us are.

You're still getting a slightly polished, a slightly curated

version of what is the truth.

sometimes, I'll think, "I'm gonna have a day where I'm gonna share loads

on stories," but, I'm not sharing everything because I sometimes don't

want even my clients to perceive that my day's a bit chaotic.

I don't want them to be counting, hang on.

maybe she should've spent longer on my work today." I don't want to call

into question the work that I'm doing, or I don't want people to think, "Oh

my God, she's a messy bitch." Like,

Yeah,

know, so we're not constantly sharing all of it.

I think what is really hard online is that we have, these waves, and

I think everyone's is different.

My feed will look different to yours, will look different to the next person's.

We've all got, a slightly different version of reality that's been

shown to us through whatever the algorithm is showing us.

But when I came into this space, six, seven years ago, it was like

everyone was living in Bali, right?

Success looked like, being a digital nomad in Bali, often with one of those,

really big sun hats, doing a little bit of work with, like an iced coffee.

This was … They were sitting somewhere in, a really sort of bohemian style

cafe, and it was really appealing.

I was like, "God, what a life," you know?

But for me, that felt really far away 'cause I was like, "Well, I'm

a mum. my husband's job is here. So unless I'm planning on going on a

solo adventure, which I'm not, this is not realistic for my life." But

now we're getting more realities presented to us, different realities.

I think because some of them are now a bit closer to us, they're,

like, more attainable for more people, you can start to feel like-

maybe I'm doing this wrong then.

Maybe my version of this is not right.

Because if I see someone, for example… and actually, as I'm talking

this through, Soph, I think I might be having some sort of, epiphany.

But obviously, everything I'm talking about is to do with time.

I'm hardly ever triggered with money, because I feel like - I've

got an element of control over that.

I can work harder, or I can do more, or I can try different things.

But I find myself feeling like a letdown, feeling like I'm failing when I see people

taking more lunches, meeting more friends, taking advantage of the flexibility

that having your own business can offer.

like I'm someone who still feels guilty if I go and get my nails done on a workday.

or in the daytime I'm like, ", Oh, God, I can't tell my clients that I'm getting

my nails done, 'cause they're gonna think that's inefficient, and that I should

be doing…" I don't think I've got a single client who would think that.

I don't think they'd give a shit.

But I perceive it that way.

And so then when I see other people seemingly doing that with ease, showing

that they're living this real kind of ebb and flow of business and work and, "Oh,

yeah, I went for a wild swim this morning at lunch," or, I took an early finish so

that I could spend the day in the park," I'm like, "Oh, my God, I'm failing.

I'm doing a shit job." Because actually, what I'm doing today is

working a 12-hour day just so that I can have tomorrow off with my little

boy, and Wednesday off as well.

And so, yeah, I think that's what I struggle with, is when I feel like I'm

doing it wrong because other people are showing that they're doing it right, even

though we don't really know if they are

Yeah And also, I guess it's that, what is right, isn't it?

And it's I guess probably, and I know this, from all of my therapy,

the things that trigger us are often the things that we really want or

that we really aspire to, and that we, don't feel like we can have for

Yeah

Mine is a bit of time.

Mine's not guilt though.

I don't really feel guilty if I go and get my hair done, nails

Do you?

No, I don't.

I actually have to say, I think maybe I'm a psychopath.

I don't really feel guilt generally as a prevailing emotion.

No.

And like that's not emotion I would say I feel that much.

I don't really feel mom guilt.

I don't really feel guilt about not doing work.

I

Okay, I think you're a psychic

I think I'm a psychopath.

I actually think maybe I am.

Maybe I should feel more guilt.

note to self.

Yeah, guilt has never been something I massively struggle with.

but

That's so interesting

Isn't it?

I know.

And I haven't ever really spoken about it online because, mom guilt

is … Ah, it's talked about so much, and I just don't really feel it.

No.

Okay.

But that's, super interesting.

So what would you say, when you're feeling comparison, what's your overriding

feeling when you are feeling that?

So I'm feeling like I'm behind or I'm not doing enough.

It's

Achievement

Yeah, achievement.

It, really taps into my, high achiever eldest daughter wound

I'm only really valuable when I'm achieving.

for people to love me, I have to be productive.

it really is like that, as I'm getting, my first class degree in my graduate

corporate career and, I have really struggled - in the online business

world for what that, marker is.

And, obviously the reality is there isn't a marker, but my self-worth is still very

much linked to how much money I make.

I definitely feel that too, that achievement, like we were

brought up to be high achievers.

And I think, My mum and dad were super chuffed when we were showing that we

were working hard, showing that we were top of the class, that sort of vibe.

Not in a horrible way.

I had a lovely time doing it.

But I definitely feel that too.

But yeah, I think… I feel comparison most when I think that people

have got a better balance than me, . i've got this overarching fear

of, not living enough of my life.

Sorry to get deep, callers.

I know, guys.

Yeah.

didn't mean this.

but yeah, I have this overarching fear of, waking up and having

not enjoyed enough of my life.

Of just, being stuck in the monotony of, housework and doing

the washing, and, getting jobs done.

I think jobs can just make you so busy, and I just have this overarching fear of,

"Oh my God, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, and I'm gonna be 90, hopefully, and

I'm gonna think, ' coulda done this.'"

I think, I lost my mum, and I think , when you lose somebody really important

to you, my experience of that is that it makes you think, "Shit," you know,

we could lose everything in a minute.

And so, what's really important?

and it's partly why I left education, 'cause I'm like, no one's gonna

write on my gravestone, "Always marked her books on time." "Delivered

outstanding lessons on the regular." that's not genuinely what's important.

So the things that make me feel comparison are always along that line of, experiences

and, I desperately wanna do a business class flight for my family, but mostly

because I think what an amazing, cool experience to, to do together.

So yeah, I'm definitely feel comparison more when I feel like people are living

life better than I am, doing more

Yeah.

I totally get that, and it's so fascinating, isn't it?

'Cause as you were talking, I think , my overriding fear is financial security.

not that I want more money because I wanna be rich or famous or,

I just am, like, really greedy and I just want all the money.

I, think when I was growing up, my dad got made redundant.

He worked in the city, and His whole job was really unstable.

I mean, he earned a lot of money, but got made redundant quite a few

times in quite a short period of time.

then when I was at British Airways and I had this really stable job, British

Airways is an ex-government company, so it has insane things, like they

have to give you, six months notice

Yeah

And so I always felt really secure when I had my corporate job, really secure.

And then I got made redundant from that job while I was on mat leave, I know.

And , I can't tell you, I mean, this was, like, what?

Nearly nine years ago now, and I still sometimes get emotional

about it when I talk about it, and I've had so much therapy on it.

I've done so much mindset work on it.

But having to then build up my business, it took me such a long time

to start making money in my business.

I found it so hard to make money that I feel like I'm constantly striving to

feel like I have financial security.

and

Yeah

honesty, a bit like with you, right?

There is a bit of reality in there.

because I was made redundant, it took me a long time to then build

up and, start earning money again.

we used all our savings.

I didn't pay consistently into my pension for a really long time.

, We're not,, as far on in, the property market as most of my friends.

we haven't got, the family house that we wanted because, our financials

have taken such a hit from me.

Hi

'Cause when I went on mat leave, before I got made redundant,

my husband and I were 50/50

Yeah

who brought in how much money.

And like, wiping me out for, three to four years , was brutal on our finances.

absolutely brutal.

So although I'm doing really well now, I think I definitely still have

that wound, note to self, will bring that up with my therapist this week,

feeling like I'm kinda catching up.

And I think there is a reality to that too.

although, yes, okay, my revenue now is good, and my salary now is good,

I've got a huge pot to backfill for me to genuinely feel financially secure.

and I think that's why probably the money triggers me online when I see other people

earning money or other people having big months or other people, yeah, earning.

I also think the flip of that is I know a lot of certainty that

I don't want to do it in a way.

Although revenue and money is a big driver for me in feeling financially secure, I

don't want to burn myself out doing it.

Mm-hmm.

often, I feel like I'm pulled

between pillar and post.

yeah

I feel like I'm being dragged between, just make money, make money, make money,

get financially secure, start paying into your pension again, build up savings.

Then the other way is but make sure you go to your gym class and do your

vitamins and have your electrolytes.

like, yeah, but I … Oh, how, can I have both?

How do I have both?

This feels like I'm really juggling something that's really

quite hard to navigate here.

Also, with two young children who have additional needs

It is insane, and this is what I think is really, refreshing to talk about.

Because actually, I was thinking even as you were talking, I

haven't paid consistently into my pension since I left education.

I'm getting better at it, but I certainly haven't been consistent,

and certainly not at the level that I would've been paying in,

No

in education or if you're in a corporate job.

we hear… God, there's so much financial stuff now as well, isn't there?

I don't know if it's just my feed, but it's "I've invested such and such a

month in a such and such account, which means that when my child turns 18,

they're gonna be a millionaire." And I'm like, "Fuck, I have not done that."

Even just this weekend, I was like, "I'm opening wealth in ISA. I'm gonna

open him another ISA.. Yeah, I'm on this train." and I am sometimes, if

I don't watch myself, I am literally, ragdolling my way through the internet

of like, yes, I'm gonna build a complete Claude AI ecosystem that means

I don't have to be in my business.

Yes, I'm gonna open a homestead.

I'm gonna start making jam.

I'm gonna I'm gonna be a trad wife.

And then… Not, politically not, of homestead.

and then, oh no, I'm gonna try and have a six-figure month.

. And it's so hard to, hold on to what are the things that are important

to me, because we are just, like, shown these snapshots of different

lives that we could be living.

It's so difficult to think, what actually is important to me all the time.

what is important, what's important to me?

It's really hard to hold that core belief when so many appealing and attractive

mini stories are being shown to us.

I found myself recently saying 2027 is gonna be my year of

financial, abundance, security.

I'm gonna tidy up everything.

I'm gonna, invest.

I'm gonna learn how… And I'm already saying this, and

we're like month seven in 2026.

I'm already decided that whilst I haven't got the brain space for that right now,

what I can do is make it my 2027 thing.

It's just really hard to stay focused, and I think this wellness stuff at the

minute I actually find really intense.

Because I'm like, "Shit, have I moved enough?

Have I drank enough?

Am I… Should I be taking collagen?

Should I be at my desk, but also on a walking pad?" and it makes me feel dizzy.

I can't do it, Sophie

Oh the walking pad.

Honestly, I've I've almost bought one so many times.

The

Content

I don't understand how people walk and type at the same time.

There's

It might be

no way I could do it.

There's no way I could think properly and do it.

So the only time I think I could probably do it is maybe I could do

it while I was on a call potentially.

I definitely couldn't do it while I was typing.

No

I'm like, someone's just gonna watch me, , walking, rocking.

I don't know.

The whole thing confuses me.

Yeah, exactly.

I get a bit out of breath

i've got like a standing desk.

So I've got this thing that sits on top of my desk.

It's so ugly as well.

and I promised myself that , whenever I was on a call, I was

gonna stand instead of sitting.

But it just makes me feel like a bit motion sick.

I just feel a bit, not as stable, and I feel like I do my best thinking sat down.

So I hardly ever use my standing desk, but that was just another

thing that I bought into 'cause everyone was saying stop sitting down.

And I know being sedentary is bad for you.

Yeah

but yeah, it's really hard to balance everything

I think that's it, isn't it?

I'm totally bought into that.

I think probably 'cause we are midlife women

Yes

and I think our feeds they're really feeding us the midlife stuff.

And also most of my clients, are of a similar age-ish.

so I think we're all talking about it, we're all feeling it.

And I do think we are, you know, we talk about the sandwich generation, don't we?

Of young kids, older parents.

But I also think we are hitting age of where we need to be looking after

ourselves more and thinking about ourselves more during this shambles of

like, , young children,, older parents.

Yeah

I just think, it's so much to keep on top of.

And I know we've talked about this before, I love going to my gym classes.

I love doing my strength training.

I love trying to go for a walk with dog.

They really ground me in.

They really support me in my business.

They have really helped me not get burnt out while I've been growing the

business and , I love doing them and I do share about it online and this

is I think what is a challenge, right?

we don't want the comparison because it feels hard when people are talking

about stuff that we really want.

Yeah

I do feel really inspired sometimes and it's such a me thing.

Like, I'm the problem here.

It's me.

Hi.

Hi

it's me.

… It's not that people are posting about their amazing gym routines and that is the

problem, that I am comparing my full life to their Instagram highlight and thinking,

"Oh, if she can go to the gym three times a week, why am I only going once?

that's not very good.

I should be doing better.

I should be doing more." When the reality is that so often I have seen other people

doing stuff on Instagram and been really inspired when I'm in the right head space.

It's

How I come to it, not I think what anyone else is posting

Yeah.

And I think, there are certain times in the year, aren't there, where you're

feeling a little bit more tender about

Yeah

certain things.

I find wellness content in January really hard to stomach, because normally I'm

just completely overindulged at Christmas, and it's like everyone's getting back

on this wagon, and I feel like a lot of not enough-ness when I see other people

that are on, day 20 of some sort of shred or, hard 70 or whatever they are.

and so I think there are different pinch points in the year where you feel like

other people are doing it better than you.

And I hear so many women with this feeling of "I'm doing it wrong.

I must be doing it wrong because other people seem to be doing it right." And

actually, I was thinking, when you were talking about, financial security and

stuff- and, what happened with your dad being made redundant and you being made

redundant, I think probably the reason why I perhaps don't feel that is, my

dad came from super humble beginnings.

he used to live in a double-decker bus.

and went on to be incredibly successful in his career, and actually reinvented

himself a number of times in that process and, changed industries and worked

in Formula 1 at one point, but then was in, waterworks at another point.

So I really believe that I can make it work.

I can make this work if I needed to change again.

I think going from education and building something myself has really given me

the confidence to think I can do that.

I could do it again if I needed to.

If, everything went kaput for whatever reason, I believe that

I could do it again or I could change and pivot and do it again.

I just think it's interesting how much, like you say, , what we're holding

and what we're coming with completely changes the way that we receive things.

And often it's not that people are being boastful per se, they're sharing

their version of what's real for them at that moment most of the time.

But what we are carrying with us can be the thing that makes us feel like, ugh.

And I just think summer's one of those moments where you just, look at even,

like, just people's holiday photos and stuff can be really intense, can't it?

Sometimes I just wanna ask, "Sorry, can you just give, some specifics

as to how you're affording this?"

Yeah

Yeah

I can tell you mine's a credit card.

Yeah

but if you could just delve a little deeper as to how you've

afforded this seven-month holiday

Yeah.

And I think there's so much to unpick, isn't there?

Because, it absolutely is your history and your experiences

that, shape so much of this.

Because you're right, I made redundant, it wasn't my choice, and for the first few

years, honestly, I felt hugely resentful.

Like hugely resentful.

I did not wanna work for myself.

I've never wanted to work for myself.

That was never, something I aspired to.

I wanted the corporate job.

I wanted the, kudos, I wanted the title, I wanted to be part of the big organization.

It was 100% me.

And I didn't go back to corporate because we couldn't make it

work , you know, part-time, at senior roles, wasn't really a thing.

I mean, it wasn't even that long ago, but it was very different.

You know, home working wasn't really a thing.

Zoom wasn't really a thing.

Was so different.

And so I basically was like, "Okay, fine. I will make myself available

to be the primary carer, and then I will work around her everything."

And it actually got to a point probably, I think it was like 2022, around that

time it was about three or four years in, where I had to make a really conscious

decision about actually going all in on the business and not feeling resentful.

And like at some point I'm gonna go back to a corporate job and I'm

just really treading water here.

Yeah

, I had to say, "I'm actually doing this for me. I'm not just doing

this to be available for my family."

Yes, this is what I want, not just what the family needs

Exactly, this is actually what I want.

And then once I started committing to that, it did make a huge difference.

at one point I applied for a job at easyJet, and I was down to the

last two, and I didn't get it.

And I still, you know, you still look back, don't you?

It's like one of those weird sliding doors moments of yeah, if I'd have got that job,

how different my life would be right now.

And it's so interesting.

But I think it's one of those things where have to really think about, how you're

receiving things as you're seeing it presented to you, as much as like what's

kinda gone on in your background as well

Do you think anyone looks at your socials, I'm asking myself this question at the

same time, looks at your socials and feels the feelings that we're talking about?

Do you think people look at yours and think, "Oh," you know, and

are- comparing themselves to you?

Oh, yeah, like 100%.

people tell me that they don't like looking at my social media, and

this is why I think it's really interesting, and this is why I always

really try and remind myself, because when I talk about money, so I talk

about how much I, spend each month.

So I do often do, a reel where I'll talk about how much I

spent in the previous month.

I will also say things like, "As someone who earned 270,000 last year," or, I

think I've done one a few weeks ago where I talked about how I've made 193K

so far this year, something like that.

And people generally I'd say are really nice about them, but I would

always get a few barbed comments.

I would always get comments like, "I can't even imagine

, having that amount of money.

, How much must you be earning to be able to spend that?" Or, can't believe you think

that ,, amount of money's not enough."

and I found it really uncomfortable to begin with.

I also know people who DM me and say, I wanna work with you

'cause I want your lifestyle.

I wanna work with you 'cause it's so inspiring seeing how much you have earned.

it's so

No

that you are talking about money openly and you're not hiding

it behind smoke and mirrors.

It's so I want what you've got, and I wanna work with you to get it." So I

think that's what's helpful, is that you think, for every person that's

feeling triggered by this someone else who's feeling inspired by it

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's like in the same breath of, all the stuff that I say I feel comparison

around, I also feel inspired by.

if I think of some of the things that I've done in my business or when I do

sometimes give myself permission to, whatever it is, go and get my nails done

or actually this year, I had to do so much convincing of myself that it was

okay for me to go for a swim at 9:00 AM.

I'm just Stockholm syndrome.

I was used to having my entire day mapped out by a timetable

that someone else had designed.

So it's taken me until this year, and even now I still sometimes I'm like, "Oh, have

I got time today?" Because in my head, 9:00 till 5:00 are the hours you work.

And then me choosing to swim at nine o'clock, 'cause that's the

time the pool has that swim on, takes me a minute all the time.

But actually if I think about it, probably the way that I can trace that

back to being something I did give myself permission for will have been

something I saw online probably, will have been someone else who's got like

a really good balance and seems to be feeding it into their day and has

that kind of give and take of work and personal that seems to blend really well.

So it is inspiring as it is comparison.

My client Lucy, she actually for a while was known as the comparison coach and

She was,

yes

And that was like, she was on Oprah talking about it.

God,

on Zoom on Oprah.

Um, what she used to teach, and still does, and I found this so empowering,

was to think of them as a PIP, which is your proof it's possible.

So when you feel like someone is pulling at that string of "Oh my God, I'm a bit

jealous of that," or "Why can't I afford to do a business class flight yet?" Or,

"Why are they having these amazing income months or spending loads of time with

their family?" Instead to reframe it as like, but it's proof it's possible.

It's proof that the things that you are jealous of or feeling comparison over

are possible, and to have them as this PIP instead, of like this person that

you can… And obviously some people, it goes the other way, doesn't it?

And it's a bit toxic, and you can feel it.

You can sometimes feel yourself following someone like, "This is not good for me.

This does not bring out the best version of myself." But I think

sometimes there are people that are offering you the vision of what could

be possible for you too, and I love that framing of proof it's possible.

I think that's a lovely way of looking at it

Yeah, I love that as well.

And I think that's the thing.

That's the people that are inspired, right?

They're like, "Oh my God, if you can do it, I can do it too." And I

really try and say that all the time.

honestly, guys, if I can do it, there really isn't anything

uniquely special about me.

there really isn't.

if I can do it, you absolutely can too.

and I want that to be where my kind of content sits and how I speak to people.

But I also know that , everyone brings with it their own stuff, right?

Like you say, you might see my post about revenue and not feel

triggered at all because that's not where you're coming at it from.

Whereas you might see, me posting about, I don't know, whatever, working three

days over the summer, and be like, "That feels really hard to take. I can't believe

she's still gonna earn that money and only work three days," because it's the

Totally.

thing

It's not the money in isolation.

I find the money that you earn really inspiring because I know

enough about you and the, way that you live your life, and the other

demands that you have on your time.

And, so , like you feel really relevant to me in terms of how

many hours you wanna spend in your business, that you've got children,

that you wanna spend time with them.

All of that sort of stuff makes your money interesting to me 'cause I'm like,

"Okay, that is proof it's possible. That is proof that I don't have to

have this big team and, this huge operation to be able to earn income that

could feel really exciting to earn." but yeah, it is definitely the sort

of, , the living of life that I find that I get stuck in comparison with.

What else triggers you online?

what else are you like, "Ooh, that made me wanna do that more"?

that's a really good question.

most of it, , if I feel like, "Oh, I wanna do that," I generally will

have a look and be like, why am I not?" So things like going on

retreats, that was a big one for me.

So seeing people away at retreats, away having fun, and being like,

"Oh, I can't really doing that."

And then being like, why can't I do that?

Like, why not?"

Yeah

yeah, I have to say, like revenue money for me is probably the biggest one.

I think the other one is- I think it's this thing

about not if we just go back to, getting the nails done,

Yeah.

wouldn't feel guilty about that at all.

however, I'd feel quite anxious about it.

Ooh

yeah, the anxiety would be, I'm gonna have so much to do when I get back, or,

okay, so I can take the time out now, but I always feel like I have to pay it back.

Yeah

enough buffer in my week.

So basically, I can do the work that I have to do in the hours I have in a

week, I don't have enough buffer that I could, , just go and do a random,

get my nails done on a Tuesday.

And therefore I would feel anxious, and then I would then be like, "Okay, I'll

have to do the hour or whatever tonight to make sure that I've done everything

I need to do." And then it would be like, oh, now I feel like I'm not living

to my boundaries, 'cause my boundaries are that I should really stop at 4:30.

That's when I want to stop, is 4:30.

But now I'm not stopping at 4:30, so now I feel like I'm not having

that integrity because I say that I try and stop at 4:30, but I'm not.

I'm working in the evening.

And what does that say about me?

So , I think I find it hard when people show the positives.

And again, yes, we talked about it's great for them.

They do it.

Show the inspiration.

But then when there's not that flip side of people don't show the harder bits,

like the harder seasons, where actually, if you want to get a new offer out,

then you probably, you might need to work some evenings and weekends if you

don't have enough buffer in your week.

And I find that quite hard.

I feel like, oh, I'm Well, not, failing's not quite the right word.

But, I feel like that comparison around, , why don't I have enough buffer

to be able to, do these things that other people seem to be able to do?

, I am getting better at it.

I haven't worked in the business for, nearly 10 weeks now on a Friday.

but that has

That's so good.

on my other four days.

Yeah

has.

And even, my husband has commented on it and been like, "You're definitely

working after 4:30." I was like, "I know.

I know I am." And at the moment, the payoff that I want to have, but it's

not gonna be sustainable long term.

So , what I'm working on though is not giving up the Friday, but trying to

work out , what's spilling over the rest of the week that I can either

delegate or outsource or stop doing

Yeah.

You see I think I mentioned this in another episode, I told myself

at the beginning of the year that I was gonna have Fridays as a day

either to do nice things so that I could, do my nail appointment on a

Friday without feeling guilty, or I could work on my business just

thinking about first-person narrative.

Because obviously the trap with, done-for-you services

is that they are the priority.

And so sometimes I can fill my entire week with client work, and

then I haven't done anything to move my business forward as I want to.

so I think yeah, I folded like a house of cards and haven't done

that, even though it's still completely blocked out in my diary.

And the appointment that I block out is first-person

narrative, protect at all costs.

And then what is a load of appointments and time blocking to work on client work.

So I'm just like, "Oh, what the fuck?" I'm … So I just felt like a house of cards, but

I think, yeah, it's really interesting again to hear you, useful as well to

hear you talk about the fact that, yes, you are having Fridays off, but the cost

is that it's extended your other days.

And I think what we so often see is, especially at the minute, I think AI

has contributed to this, The only good things are the things that are easy.

I feel everything has to be easy, otherwise you feel like

you're not doing it quite right.

oh my God, it took you a while to write a sales page.

Why aren't you using this prompt?

Why haven't you used this piece of software?

And so I find that quite exhausting actually, because if you're not in a

position to have all of these incredible automations set up, or actually if

that's not the way you want to run your business, if you actually quite like

having client contact, you quite like having a little chat with people, then

it can quite easily start to become like

You feel behind or that you're not keeping up with the way that

people are doing things anymore.

So it is useful to hear other people talk about things sometimes feeling

a bit sticky or feeling a bit hard when there isn't a solution.

'Cause, what we often hear is, "I was doing

Yes

but now I do this and this, and I can teach you how to do it in my X, Y, Z."

So we hear that there was a problem, that they have experienced what you're

experiencing, and here's a solution.

I love it when I can hear people … And I think that's why these little

miniseries are performing so well at the minute, where people are like,

"Right, I'm gonna try and build this. Come with me as I do it."

That can really relieve some of that intense comparison because you're like,

"Okay, they haven't found the solution yet. They're just trying to get there."

And that can be, , refreshing, 'cause so much online right now seems just, easy.

"I built 17 funnels in a day with three prompts that are gonna change your life

Yeah

I saw a post the other day and it was a really, it was a really great post and She

basically walks you through her day and at each point there was, like an AI agent.

So it's Larissa then gives me my lead magnet ideas and then, Polly then

edits the podcast and then, Sophie then schedules the social media.

it was like, it was really interesting and like hundreds and hundreds if

not thousands of people had signed up for whatever it was that was,

the ManyChat prompt to get whatever.

I don't even know if it was free or paid,

but I was just like, sounds great, doesn't it?

It sounds like it's gonna save you so much time, and I

absolutely, I'm sure it would do.

But there's also a huge amount of time and energy that you would have to

put in to creating all of that, and I think that's really not acknowledged

in a lot of these AI things.

And sometimes the speed of things , it's not the only factor, is it, guys?

sometimes it's nice to actually respond to your clients yourself … And don't get

me wrong,, I like AI, I like using AI, I

Me too

being a shortcut, but I do agree that I think that we're sort of fetishizing

a little bit here of "Oh, I used AI and I've cut out like 20 hours of my business

and so now I can just do whatever I want." that is great, but I don't know.

, Maybe I'm jealous because I haven't done it, and maybe I feel like I should.

I don't know.

But there's

I think sometimes I'm jealous.

I think it's a hard thing to admit, isn't it?

But sometimes I see stuff online and I'm saying comparison, but what

I'm actually feeling is jealousy.

I'm like,

Yeah

that.

I want 20 hours back in my week.

I want, parts of my day to feel lighter." And it's not to say that

I'm not having a lovely time doing what I'm doing, but it's hard not

to be in the I want mentality when

It's almost like you're having so many prizes laid out in front of you.

do you want 30,000 pound weeks, or do you want to have, 12

weeks holiday over the summer?

we've been given,

like, you know, on, , Generation Game.

Yeah.

Sorry,

Yes

of a millennial reference, but where there was like the conveyor

belt with all these prizes.

It's like, and here's a microwave and a cuddly toy.

I feel like that's what social media can feel like, where you've got all of these

different versions of what people's lives are like and you're trying to think, "Oh,

God." Like, at the minute I'm getting shown a lot of people building their own

swimming pools, because it's been hot.

So because it's been hot, I'm getting a lot of people building, really gorgeous

little swimming pools and I'm like, "God, it'd be great to have a swimming

pool, wouldn't it?" Never in my life have I thought that until this point.

if you could see the size of our garden, Sophie, if we had even a hot

tub in it, it would be overwhelming.

but I'm like, "Yeah, no, that would be great. God, what a life you'd be

living if you…" I've just been shown a prize that I didn't necessarily

want, but now I partially think I want because it was laid in front

of me and looked super aspirational.

And it is really hard to not be tempted by this conveyor belt and

only pick up the things that you want.

And actually, when I was having, when I was having therapy, she talked

about, it was in relation to anxious thoughts, but she talked about the

sushi conveyor belts where the different meals go past, and actually, the, that

our thoughts are all just different dishes and we can choose which ones

we pick up and eat, and we can choose which ones we just let drift past us.

And I was thinking, just as I was talking about social, you have to

adopt that mentality, don't you?

"Okay, I'm just gonna let that breeze past me.

That one's not for me.

I don't have to pick up every solution and prize that's offered

for me and make it my own.

they don't all have to be my goals.

Other people's goals can just be their goals."

Yeah Good for you, not good for me.

yeah, I do agree.

I think, when I did Scaling Unwrapped in, December last year, and I did six

episodes of the podcast, and I took everyone through, the four quarters of

the year what had happened in each ones, and, the things that had gone really well,

and basically how I'd grown the business quite substantially over the year.

And I think one of the, most interesting/hardest ones was the quarter

three last year, where I did quite a big launch, and it really didn't go to plan.

I just didn't get as many signups as I wanted.

And it was, like, for all sorts of various reasons I went into,

and I was really honest about it.

And, people still talk to me about Scaling Unwrapped now.

they talk so much about how honest I was.

And I mean, very, very similar to this podcast, just

really sharing what happened.

I felt at the time when it happened, you know how you were saying, people

only ever say it in hindsight.

It felt really hard to share at the actual time because, I was literally

wasn't running the same program as I am now, but I was running programs

where I help people, , launch and grow their group programs.

It was like I just did a big launch that did not do very well at all, and

I think for me personally, and this probably taps back into the,

high achieving, need to do well to be loved, issue that I have, the

deep wound, is, it feels really hard to admit that I've failed or

done something wrong in real time.

And so to stop that comparison, it feels easier to just gloss over it and move on.

And then I think maybe something I do that most other people do is I

will come back to it, I will share.

So I think people generally don't share their failures at all.

will come back and share it in hindsight, but you know, you were

talking about those series where people document it in real time.

Yeah

it very hard to do one of those, I think

it's, it is so hard.

I think, there's a thought I'm having in my business at the minute, and

it's quite a big one, about how the future of my business might pan out.

And I know it would be super useful to share it because I know other

people are feeling it, other people are probably thinking about it, but it

just feels too vulnerable to share it in case I end up with egg on my face.

In case , I don't end up doing it, because actually I need the income.

Or in case I don't end up sticking to what I've said I'm gonna do.

And I think we're all living with that fear, and we're entitled to.

we don't have to share every thought we've had.

But when we're all holding back a little bit that we protect until we've

reached safety, that's what I think people do with their stories of failure.

They will tell it once they feel safe enough to tell it.

And God, they're completely entitled to live that way.

We all are.

Like, that's not a criticism.

But what it does is when everyone's doing that, what it does in the online

space is kind of secure this highlights reel that I'm only telling you the

bad stories once they've turned good.

I'm only telling you the tough decisions once I've been proved right.

Or, once I've replaced that income, and so I'm rich enough to be able

to tell you about these terrible stories because I've got loads of

reoccurring revenue, and I feel secure enough and safe enough to share it.

So yeah, it's like I don't think anyone's doing it deliberately, but I

think when you've got a lot of people making similar decisions, it creates a

landscape that is just really hard for lots of us to wade through and not feel

comparison or jealousy or, wherever you land on that scale of being green-eyed

Yeah

And I mean, we started this, when we were planning this, podcast, we started

actually with a Jenna Kutcher post, didn't we, on how posted three or four days

ago about how she's now, stepping back.

She's working a lot less.

She's really focusing on her health, and, she's been doing it

and, she's been seeing how that's impacting her revenue et cetera.

And, suddenly you're like, "Oh, okay, so what you're actually saying is

the last few years there's been a lot you've… hiding is the wrong word,

but a lot that you've not been sharing about, your health and how burnt out you

feel and how hard this is and how much pressure it is, and that sort of thing.

And now you're ready to talk about it 'cause you've taken a step back.

Your revenue's actually okay.

You've got it all aligned.

then I look back at all of her stuff and think, "Oh, gosh, okay. So the last few

years it's felt very different to you than maybe I perceived it felt to you."

Yeah

and it's hard when the goalposts seem to move as well, isn't it?.

And I always marvel at this actually, is that you'll tell me people that

are inspiring you, and I've never even heard of them sometimes,

despite we've been in similar spaces.

So everyone's got their own people that they look up to, and are inspired by,

and are maybe following the processes of.

And I find it quite hard when the goalposts move of the person

that you've been looking up to.

So it can seem like, oh yeah, no, they want the same as me.

we're aligned.

And then if they, which they're completely entitled to, let us say, like everyone's

allowed to just live their own life, but when they pivot or change what's

important to them and are saying, "Actually, I'm- focusing on something

else now," you're like, it's a bit like, the rug's been pulled out from under you.

'Cause you're like, hang on, I thought we were both working

towards like the same thing.

I was chasing the same thing that you were, but you were just a few steps

ahead." So it is hard when people say, "Oh, I'm completely changing everything."

And I'm not saying that's what she said, but she was talking in the post, I

went on and read the Substack, and it was like basically saying that she's

seen a lot of women build their business to a certain point and then step back.

But what they tend to do is then disappear, and you don't ever get any

more because they just go offline and live their life, and power to them.

and what she wanted to do was document it a bit so that people could see what

, the next steps were, which is great.

And that narrative is true.

You do have people that just disappear, and you're never quite sure, if

they're living a great life or not, 'cause they stopped documenting it.

But it is hard when people just flip reverse it on you,

and you're like, "Oh, okay.

then does that mean that my goals should change?

If my goals were aligned with yours, and now you're saying that

yours aligned somewhere else, does that mean mine are wrong?

Should I also be prioritizing my wellness?" But actually, what if

I'm not in a financial position to suddenly, really invest time and

energy in that 'cause I've still got a mortgage to pay or a loan to

pay back or whatever it might be.

So I think that can be really hard as well when you feel like the goalposts

move, and the people that you've looked up to have changed direction.

That, I've found that hard with a number of people online, actually.

I'm like, "Wait, what? Oh, now I've gotta find someone else."

Yeah

Now I've gotta find a new person.

And I also think the flip of that, is as your goals evolve and things change

and everything, and then the people you're following suddenly feel "Oh,

I don't know if she does align with me quite so much anymore." I listened

to, Amy Porterfield loads when I was starting the business and, building up.

I think she's brilliant.

I still think she's brilliant.

I think she's, built up an incredible business.

but I got to a point where I didn't really listen to her podcast anymore 'cause it

just didn't, I don't know, just didn't click with me in the way that it did.

And it wasn't really anything she did, it was just that I was just in a

different space around what I wanted to be listening to or what I wanted to focus on.

so yeah, I guess , it works both ways, doesn't it?

Yeah, and I suppose as well, I try and hold myself to account with this all

the time, and I've talked about it with people I work with, of do you need to

take a minute to re-curate your feed?

'cause sometimes we do it naturally.

when I was pregnant, my entire feed was pregnancy-related, 'cause I wanted to

know about people's nurseries, what they were buying, all that sort of stuff.

And then very quickly that became completely irrelevant to

me, and so I was unfollowing.

I think what's sneaky squirrels about the online business space

is, it's not an obvious switch.

And so sometimes you can find yourself following people that you used to align

with, you haven't necessarily noticed that you don't, and then them feeding into your

day-to-day narrative can actually start to be quite, I don't wanna say toxic,

'cause I don't think it's always dramatic, but but it, can start to make you feel

out of alignment with your own business.

And so I do think one of the good things to do, semi-regularly, is to

check in with your feed and be like, do I need to, with love, stop following

some people because it doesn't feel aligned anymore, it doesn't feel good.

That's not what I want to be hearing." And just trying to curate the right people

so that it feeds you in a positive way.

And I think just noticing the difference between is that

person a proof it's possible, or actually are they winding me up?

You can't do it perfectly, 'cause obviously with suggested content

being so prevalent in our feeds now, sometimes you're just getting served

stuff that you're like, taking the time to say, "Not interested," can

just remove that sort of content.

I do think it's worthwhile doing, 'cause you can curate a feed that feels good,

and make sure that it's filled with people who are feeling inspiring rather than,

Yeah triggering.

exactly.

I often will, mute people if I'm just finding that their content, if it has,

comes up a few times and I just feel like, "Oh," , it's just triggering me a bit.

And , like you say, it doesn't feel that positive, , proof it's possible.

It feels like, "Oh, this just doesn't feel very good or aligned," then I

will just mute them for a bit and like you say, just then find other

people who I do wanna see more of.

But yeah, it's definitely worth doing regularly because you're

right, it's not such a clear season.

at the moment, all my feed is, house renovations and stuff

because we're about to move house.

and then once we've kinda done what we wanna do, that

will, very clearly drift away

Yeah

won't need it anymore.

Whereas you're right, with business it doesn't feel that obvious

and specific in the same way.

And it's hard to be self-conscious enough and self-aware enough to be

like, "Hang on, is that my goal?" Is that actually how I'm feeling?

Or am I starting to absorb the stuff that I'm seeing in my feed?" and I'm definitely

better at it in my personal feed.

If I'm like, "Hang on, this is starting to make me feel like I've not…"

One of the ones in my personal feed that is terrible is it can give

me a real case of the spendies.

I will see clothes, if I've got too much clothes content, I will feel,

despite loving it, I start to feel like I need to buy stuff all of the time.

I am on everyone's bloody LTK or whatever it's called, and I need

to, I need to dopamine dress.

I need to bring more color into my life.

I need more barrel trousers." And I'm like, I can feel that impulsion. And

so sometimes I have to be like, I need to just for now unfollow," and I'll

go and deliberately like some other stuff so that, my feed changes based

on what I've been interacting with so that I can pull it back a little bit.

'Cause otherwise I can feel myself thinking I need to buy

so much stuff all of the time.

and recently I've gone on a bit of , a hunt to try and find, people who are good

with money, people who are budgeting.

so I've gone on a bit of a hunt to like those out and start engaging

with that content to try and pull more of that into my feed, 'cause I

feel that's healthier for me than me wanting to, constantly go and buy stuff

Yeah, I feel like that's a nice positive way to end.

, We went nice and deep today.

Mean

to our heads.

, I think a lot of people will resonate though.

I think these are the kind of conversations we really wanted

to have because I don't think, they don't happen very often

And I think also, there's so much content already out there about,

if you do this, and this, you can get this outcome, or this is me

explaining how I did this, and this.

That's there, and it's useful, and we need it.

But I think so many of us are working on little islands, and just having a

place to come and listen to, like, a bit of reality of, what's going on and how

people are feeling and, 'cause business isn't just all about the deliverables.

We do, have episodes that are focused on that.

But also, so much of it is around the experience of it, isn't it?

that makes it hard.

it's not just the doing, it's , the feeling that goes alongside it.

So yeah,

Yeah,

I enjoyed that episode.

We did go deeper than I thought, but

Yeah, me too.

That wasn't in our plan, but I liked him.

I'm here for him.

We take

Okay, amazing.

I hope you guys have a lovely day, and we will see you again next week

Bye, everybody