10 5

Stop Drop & Roll Through Suicidal Crisis: Frank King Returns

Show Notes

In this return interview, Frank King and Elaine dig into the hard truths behind suicide: respect for those who left, the lie of burdensomeness, and the monumental power of simply asking the question. Frank introduces a crisis tool — Stop, Drop & Roll — to interrupt suicidal impulses. They also explore the role of animals, peer connection, and compassionate confrontation in keeping people alive. This episode is raw, real, and full of tools for anyone walking in shadow.

💥 What We Talk About:

• Respect: do those who die by suicide deserve it?
• Inside vs outside perspectives on selfishness / selflessness
• How to join the conversation someone is having in their head
• Why naming “suicide” helps more than hurts
• The Stop, Drop & Roll method for crisis moments
• The healing power of pets, rescue, and connection
• Real stories of confronting someone’s despair — and saving lives
• Frank’s daily goal: “save a life a day”

Bio

Frank King, Suicide Prevention Speaker, writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years, speaker and comedian for 39.

His speaking is informed by his lifetime of Depression and Suicidality and coming close enough to ending his life that he can tell you what the barrel of his gun tastes like. 

Turning that long dark journey of the soul into 13 TEDx Talks, sharing his lifesaving insights with corporations, and associations.

He’s shared the stage with comedians, Jeff Foxworthy, Adam Sandler, Jerry Seinfeld, Dr. Ken Jung, Ellen DeGeneres, Dennis Miller, and Bill Hicks, as well as entertainers, Lou Rawls, The Beach Boys, Randy Travis, and Nancy Wilson.

On top of all of that, he has survived 2 aortic valve replacements, a double bypass, a heart attack, and losing to a puppet on the original Star Search and has lived to joke about it all.

🔗 How to Connect with Frank King:

Links & Socials

Frank King

Facebook

Instagram

X (Twitter)

YouTube

📞 If You’re in Crisis:

If you're in North America, text or call 988 for free, 24/7 support.

Elsewhere? Please reach out to your local suicide prevention or mental health hotline. #YouMatter

💬 Subscribe, rate, and share if this episode moved you. It could be the lifeline someone else didn’t know they needed. #ConverSAVEtions

Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All website

©2025-2018 Elaine Lindsay SZF42.com All rights reserved.

https://suicide-zen-forgiveness.captivate.fm/episode/stop-drop-roll-through-suicidal-crisis-frank-king-returns

Elaine Lindsay

Explicit

When moving forward seems too much.

2

When you feel totally.

3

Out of touch.

4

Hope is seeping out the door.

5

You find yourself curled on the floor.

6

The thoughts swirl around

all jumbled and messed.

7

Why is this brain darkly obsessed.

8

I've secrets I've never

confessed, haven't told a soul.

9

I am depressed.

10

A gentle whisper through the

pain, “Remember, rainbows follow

11

rain Breathe deeply, hold on tight,.

12

Your hope will return shining bright

13

Embrace the now, release the past,

In forgiveness, peace will last.

14

You matter

15

deeply,

16

you're not alone.

17

Reach out, let your strength be shown.

18

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Hello.

19

Hello.

20

It's really good to be back.

21

It's Elaine Lindsay with Suicide

and Forgiveness, and my guest

22

today returning is Frank King.

23

Hi there, Frank.

24

Frank King: Hey, somebody asked

me on LinkedIn there's a post

25

about suicide and it said, do you

respect people who took their lives?

26

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, wow.

27

Frank King: Yes.

28

Yes I do.

29

I said, it's, there's some

argument in the mental health

30

community whose life is it anyway.

31

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

32

Frank King: Who am I

to tell someone not to?

33

I said, as long as there's

no serious collateral damage.

34

In their wake.

35

Then, my grandmother died by suicide.

36

I have great respect for her.

37

A great aunt, same thing my mom saying.

38

I have respect, I have a

number of friends, comedian

39

friends who died by suicide.

40

I respect them.

41

Yeah I would prefer that it,

that was not their choice.

42

But I also said in the reply that the

majority of people that I know, myself

43

included, who are suicidal, don't want to

die so much as they want to end the pain.

44

It's yeah, I still have respect for them.

45

I wish that had not been

their choice, but yeah.

46

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I, it,

that's a really good question.

47

And I will say, in all honesty, years

ago I struggled with that because

48

being suicidal my whole life, it was

something, one I didn't wanna look at.

49

When I lost my friend at 16, I think I

was afraid to allow myself to get angry.

50

Because I was so busy protecting

Andrea from those around us.

51

I just couldn't, couldn't look at it.

52

And in hindsight, I couldn't look at it.

53

'cause that meant that what

I thought about every day.

54

Was something that people

would be angry at me for.

55

And that's maybe not a good way to

explain it, but I did go through a period

56

in my twenties and thirties where I

thought, oh my God, that's so selfish.

57

And I'm the dark Pollyanna because half of

me is always fighting with the other half.

58

And there were so many times where exactly

what you said, wanting the pain to end.

59

Sometimes that pain is mental, sometimes

it's emotional in my case, if you keep

60

getting hit by cars, you know what?

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It hurts.

62

It really hurts.

63

Frank King: Yeah.

64

And

65

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That

pain was very much physical.

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Yes, I very much didn't want it,

coming from the lofty age of damn

67

near 70, I think , I understand and

have compassion for those who have

68

gone because I know, and so do you.

69

What a dark place you can get to

where you just want it to stop.

70

Frank King: Yes and I

say this in my keynote.

71

Yep.

72

People say it is such a selfish act.

73

And yes, from the outside

looking at it, it is selfish.

74

However, from the inside looking out,

there is something you're well aware

75

of called a burdensomeness, where the

person feels like they're a burden

76

to whomever, to the world, to their

family, and that the world would,

77

in fact be better off without them.

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So it's almost a selfless act

irrational but selfless act

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from the inside looking out.

80

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

81

Yeah.

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Oh, ab, absolutely.

83

And I cannot tell you the number of

times where, you know, I, in the early

84

eighties, I went for a surgery that the

whole family was totally against and.

85

First off, the doctor killed me twice,

but that went into the last 40 years of

86

constant surgeries and pain and trouble

for my family that I believe was my fault.

87

And that's a hell of a burden to carry.

88

So yes, I wanted to take away

that burden from the family.

89

And you know it's like I said

before it's only recently that I

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understand that's not the case.

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But somebody said to me years ago,

you can't read the label from inside

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the jar And that is so true because

we do see it from the inside.

93

Frank King: And I tell parents

children, young adults, if the child is

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depressed or the young adults depressed,

suicidal not to say something like,

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but you have so much to live for.

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Yeah.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

98

Frank King: Doesn't really

make any difference.

99

I tell them, join the

conversation in the person's head.

100

Say to them, look, I know it's

crossed your mind that you're

101

a burden to your mom and me.

102

However, in no uncertain terms are you

a burden, it may have crossed your mind.

103

That the world would be better off.

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We'd be better off without you

and in no uncertain terms would

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we ever be better off without you.

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So you're actually joining

the conversation they're

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having with themselves.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

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Yeah.

110

That's such a good point.

111

And it also speaks to, people are

afraid to say the word suicide.

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Yes.

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Or to ask someone.

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And yet that's the best thing you can do.

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Frank King: Yes.

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Actually lowers the risk.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

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Frank King: Lose is the risk.

119

Yeah.

120

I talk about that in my keynote.

121

I say, there's a wives tale, old wives

tale or urban legend that you should

122

never mention the s word, suicide

in front of someone who's depressed

123

because it might give 'em the idea.

124

And I tell 'em, as a comic, I

find that fascinating because

125

suicide, what a great idea.

126

Why didn't I think of that?

127

Why

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

didn't I think it,

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Frank King: it does, it

crossed my mind, trust me.

130

And the opposite is.

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In fact, the truth it reduces the

risk of them dying by suicide.

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And I tell 'em, look, you need to ask the

question if you think they're suicidal.

133

Are you having thoughts of suicide?

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If you can't ask that,

find somebody you can.

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If you can't find anybody,

here's my cell phone number.

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Call me.

137

I'll ask them.

138

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah

and it's such a, again, our brains

139

are so powerful yet so convoluted.

140

And I honestly believe the brain is

the greatest liar that ever lived

141

because, if you suddenly get a thought

in your head, whether it's true or

142

not is irrelevant, but your brain

will do all it can to support that

143

thought and continue on that pathway.

144

No matter what it is, it's

why the old thing is don't

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think about a pink elephant.

146

Yeah.

147

It's why that works.

148

The minute you put that thought in

people's heads, they can't help but

149

see that pink elephant and our, the

way our brain works, I think, a, an

150

interesting little trick I've used for me.

151

When I get to a place where I can

separate all those bad thoughts and

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realize, okay, I have to get away from

that, I'll start thinking about, in

153

my case, squirrels and chipmunks and

just silly little things to do with

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animals because it takes me down such a

different road and I love animals so much.

155

That just makes me happy.

156

It's, it's just a little tiny

tweak, but you have to be in a place

157

where you can still be cognizant

of what's going on in your head.

158

Because we get so far into it, you're

boxed in, you don't see anything but

159

the thoughts that are supporting.

160

That inclination to wanna disappear,

to wanna leave and that's, I think, the

161

hardest thing is being able to catch

yourself at that moment for a teenager,

162

for young people who just needs someone

to listen, going to them and offering.

163

To be there to listen.

164

I put up a meme I don't know, a month

ago with duct tape over my mouth

165

saying, truly, I'll listen if I have

to wear duct tape so that I don't,

166

but in, because very often we're not

looking, and you know this, I'm sure

167

we're not looking for people to fix us.

168

Frank King: No.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: We're not

looking for someone to ride in on their

170

white horse and do all that's almost more

draining and takes more power from you.

171

If the minute you wanna talk to

somebody, they think they should

172

immediately mount up and, cue the horses.

173

Let's get this one safe,

which is really not the point.

174

Frank King: They mean well.

175

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

176

Oh, absolutely.

177

Absolutely.

178

But that's not always a good thing.

179

And I think, and I know you have the

tools and I know there is a lot of

180

courses and things out there now.

181

Where.

182

Just the average Joe can go and

take a course so that they know

183

what to do in the situation if they

come upon someone who is suicidal.

184

Frank King: Yes.

185

My favorite actually, and I

put up a, the URL for this is

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mental health first aid.org.

187

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Ah, okay.

188

Frank King: It's mental

health first aid dot orgs.

189

Great mental health 1 0 1.

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You can take it, I think now

online, six to eight hours.

191

Oh good.

192

If you go to the website, put in your zip

code, tell 'em you want a class within

193

25 mile radius, it will tell you where

all the classes are when they start.

194

And I think I.

195

I think I paid all of $25.

196

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, that's good.

197

Frank King: And then threw in lunch, so

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, wow.

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Okay.

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Frank King: And they give you a binder

and it's got, it's got a, it's got a

201

page or so on each illness depression,

schizoaffective disorder anxiety.

202

Yeah.

203

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Or

204

Frank King: yeah.

205

What do you call it?

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Borderline personality.

207

Yeah.

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Frank King: Non-lethal

self harm and suicide and

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh

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Frank King: yeah.

211

So it's chalk and it's just a great,

and you take the binder with you so that

212

you can, it's got the signs and symptoms

and what to say and not to say, it's a

213

great, it's a great six to eight hour

course, like I said, very inexpensive.

214

So if you're looking to learn also

now, National Alliance Mental illness.

215

Yeah.

216

NAMI, there's a chapter in

just about every county.

217

And let's say if somebody in your

family who has schizoaffective disorder

218

They have a 12 week class, one night

a week for the family to go in and

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learn what to say, not to say what to

do and not do, how to run resources.

220

And they have family to family counseling.

221

So you realize you're not alone.

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There are other families

with similar situation.

223

And the best thing about National

Alliance mental illness, NAMI,

224

is everything they do is free.

225

Wow.

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Yeah, it's I volunteer at the

county and the state level.

227

I've done some keynoting for them.

228

It's just a great organization.

229

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh wow.

230

That's excellent.

231

And you have Samaritans in

the States as well as Britain?

232

Frank King: I've never come across

Samaritans, actually in the States.

233

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Okay.

234

I know someone who is

in, I believe Boston.

235

Frank King: Oh, okay.

236

I didn't realize.

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And affiliated.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

239

Yeah.

240

And there's a lot in the states.

241

There's a lot more opportunities

now and a lot more.

242

Not-for-profits that do

different courses and a friend in

243

Toronto just opened the mentor.

244

And it is to, for young people to be

paired up with a mentor, usually with

245

lived experience that they can work with

someone that they trust and build a.

246

I guess one of the other thing

groups calls it a trust circle.

247

There is a group here in Ottawa that's

affiliated with the Royal Ottawa Hospital.

248

It's Ottawa Youth Ottawa Distress Youth,

and they do the same kind of thing, build

249

up a trust group for these young teens.

250

They're just, they're doing an event.

251

Later or early October here in Ottawa,

but they've been doing it for many years.

252

And I think it's wonderful that things

like NAMI and mental health and the

253

Royal and all of these UK's baton

for Hope and there are just, there's

254

so many different groups out there.

255

Just in the past, I would

say five to 10 years, we are

256

finally getting a good movement.

257

'cause to me, suicide prevention

and awareness is not a moment.

258

It should be a movement.

259

And that's part of my strong

belief, my mission to keep

260

things going all year long.

261

Because it seems like everything else,

like heart month and liver month and

262

whatever month, the rest of the year,

we don't think about those things.

263

Frank King: True.

264

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

What is daffodil?

265

April is the daffodil thing for cancer,

but the rest of the year we don't

266

really, that's not high on our radar.

267

And.

268

This is so final.

269

Okay.

270

Of, of everything, everything can be,

but suicide to me is the most important

271

to stop because there are no stages.

272

There are, there is no chemo.

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There is no, no stop gap for in between.

274

It is.

275

There is one goal in suicidality.

276

One goal, that's it.

277

And there's, it's not really remission.

278

You are constantly, when you have suicidal

ideation, you are constantly working

279

on staying present, but I think it's

really important to make the distinction

280

between suicide and other things.

281

Because we haven't for so long, it's

never been put in a category where,

282

this is the, one of the most important

things you can do is keep people alive.

283

Help them to help themselves.

284

To find hope.

285

Because that to me is

ultimately what's lacking.

286

The minute you lose hope.

287

That's how you go down that path.

288

Frank King: I've always

seen it as hope blessedness.

289

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

290

Frank King: And there's a new program.

291

I have a QR code, but I can't, I was

looking to see if I can put it in the

292

chat, but there's no way to put a.

293

A document in the chat?

294

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: No, not

in the, oh, not in the private one.

295

Frank King: Yeah, I don't see a button.

296

But let's see.

297

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

No, actually I don't either.

298

Can you maybe sneak it to me by

email while we're talking and

299

we can at, if not Yeah, we will.

300

We will get it up at the end of.

301

The show and we will make sure

it's in the notes so that people

302

can get ahold of the QR code.

303

Frank King: I can.

304

What's your best email?

305

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Elaine

at SZ or SZF four two.com.

306

Frank King: Elaine is spelled differently.

307

No, it is

308

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: E-L-A-I-N-E.

309

Frank King: Got it.

310

Yeah, there's a QR code.

311

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Okay, perfect.

312

Frank King: And I'll attach it.

313

Yeah.

314

It takes you to this.

315

The idea is stop, drop

and roll is the idea.

316

Oh, yeah.

317

From, if you catch on fire, the

advice is stop, drop and roll.

318

QR code stop.

319

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Wow.

320

Frank King: Drop and roll.

321

Yeah.

322

I put it into my presentation

for the first time this week.

323

I put it in there.

324

It's let's see if I can

find the PowerPoint.

325

Actually, hang on.

326

The idea being that most suicides when

somebody decides they're gonna die by

327

suicide they decide they're gonna do it.

328

It happens within 10 minutes.

329

And let's see, where's them.

330

And so if you stop.

331

If you're in the middle of that storm

and you can stop and wait to do anything

332

to make any serious decisions, I think

it, they suggest for 24 to 48 hours.

333

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Wow.

334

Frank King: Then yeah, it's,

I thought it was in there.

335

Let's see.

336

Make sure this is the right I spoke to a

group of who was, oh, you know who it was?

337

It was.

338

An organization, state of Washington.

339

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: They're the

340

Frank King: people who are tasked with

watching all of the police body cam video.

341

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, wow.

342

Frank King: I can't even imagine

what they must, accident scenes,

343

homicide, yeah, whatever.

344

So it's, yeah, it's I can't even

imagine how awful that must be.

345

Oh my God.

346

And most of them, mostly women

because they, it is an admin position.

347

Most of them, 'cause body cams on the

police haven't been around that long.

348

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

349

Frank King: Most of them didn't sign

up to, that wasn't their original duty.

350

This is something that they have, that

as police work morphed and as more

351

and more officers wore body cams, then

somebody has to go through there and

352

catalog it for if it goes to court.

353

Okay.

354

Let's see.

355

Stop, drop, and roll.

356

Okay.

357

And now see if this is an explanation.

358

Stop, drop, and roll.

359

When you're suicidal, I feel

like you're emotionally on fire.

360

Stop.

361

Drop and roll is our go-to skill

for getting through the crisis.

362

All right.

363

I really think why use this skill?

364

Many people have attempted suicide and

describe their attempts as happening.

365

During times of emotional, intense

emotional pain, when someone

366

feels on fire during a crisis,

it can feel impossible to think,

367

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: right?

368

Frank King: We'll often say they wish

someone would just tell them what to

369

do so they don't have to think, as you

were talking about, don't have to think.

370

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

371

Frank King: Stop dropping.

372

When to use the skill.

373

You want to kill yourself, and you're

afraid you're gonna hurt yourself.

374

You're totally overwhelmed.

375

You're on fire, emotionally or physically.

376

All right.

377

Let's see.

378

Stop what you're doing.

379

It says

380

just freeze change rooms.

381

Sit on your hands.

382

Physically, step away from things

you would use to hurt yourself.

383

Do whatever you need to stop

yourself from active impulsively.

384

Say, I'm on fire, and no

major decisions allowed.

385

Okay, drop.

386

Okay.

387

Change your physiology fast.

388

Drop your temperature by using cold water.

389

Stick your face in a bowl of ice.

390

Drink cold water.

391

Take a cold shower, drop down to sleep.

392

Get in bed.

393

Wrap yourself in blankets.

394

Take a nap.

395

You can figure it out when you wake up.

396

Don't overdose.

397

And finally, roll this.

398

Find a strong distraction.

399

Roll toward eye contact.

400

If it's comfortable, find a friend

or loved one to talk to on FaceTime.

401

Look them in the eye.

402

Ask them to help.

403

Roll towards support, social

support, find a center to love one.

404

The idea being that if you are

somewhere and somebody catches

405

on fire, if you're there,

406

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yeah.

407

Frank King: You're gonna do

whatever you can to help them.

408

And if they, and if you drop, if

you're on fire and you drop the

409

floor and you roll, it's, rather

than run through the house, it.

410

Puts out the fire.

411

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

412

Frank King: Stop.

413

Drop.

414

And but you have to drop,

you have to go down.

415

The floor's not gonna come up and help.

416

You gotta hit the floor.

417

Two, if you saw somebody

on fire, they drop.

418

They're rolling.

419

You don't have to ask yourself.

420

Gosh, I wonder if they want help.

421

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

422

Frank King: Chances are they, because they

dropped means they don't want to burn.

423

So they want help.

424

Yeah.

425

Escaping the fire.

426

So there's really no doubt if they drop,

that means, they are in a bad place.

427

They definitely want help.

428

That's the idea.

429

You need to let someone know.

430

You definitely want help.

431

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Oh, that is so good.

432

Frank King: So I sent you

an email with a link to the

433

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yeah, and

I've got the QR code on the screen.

434

I will Sure, sure.

435

It's also.

436

Down below in the transcripts

when we're done, and I will tack

437

it on at the end of the show with

the credits so people can use it.

438

And I'm trying to make Oh,

that is absolutely brilliant.

439

Yeah, I love the concept because

it does, it's a really good way to

440

communicate that you're looking for help.

441

Frank King: Yes.

442

Somebody drops the

ground, they're on fire.

443

That tells you they want help.

444

They wanna live.

445

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

446

There's you're not gonna

just leave them there.

447

You're absolutely not gonna

just leave them there.

448

That's crazy.

449

Frank King: And as I said, the

floor's not gonna come up to meet you.

450

Ask for help from the floor, like

by getting on the floor and rolling.

451

Anyway, I just thought I'd never

seen that before last week.

452

So I inserted it into my, the QR code

in my presentation earlier this week.

453

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

That, that's really good.

454

And I was gonna say, and funny

enough, if you really think about

455

it, even the physicality of actually

dropping to the floor and rolling.

456

Will change your physiology, it will

change where your head is at too.

457

Frank King: Yes.

458

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Which I think, wow.

459

That, that is, it's so

simplistic and yet so good.

460

And these are the things we need.

461

We need things that are quick and

simple that you can latch onto

462

because,

463

I think we both know.

464

How far away from yourself you are when

you get to that place of hopelessness?

465

Frank King: Yes.

466

And if you interrupt those thoughts.

467

Yeah.

468

We have collars we lived

on a place we lived on.

469

We'd be island for a while.

470

We had German shepherds and they

were deer on the island and the

471

German shepherds would if they

saw a deer go after the deer.

472

So we bought collars and a remote.

473

The collar has a hawk scream on it.

474

Not electrical charge.

475

Oh wow.

476

Just the scream of the hawk.

477

Yeah.

478

So what you're doing is when they

see the deer, the hit prey drive, but

479

when they hear the hawk it, it breaks

that the prey drive concentration.

480

Yeah.

481

They just stop.

482

So that's kinda what the idea

is, stop that thought process.

483

That train from rolling.

484

Yeah.

485

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Oh, that is, yeah.

486

That is brilliant.

487

And as someone who loves

deer, I thank you very much.

488

'cause I also love ations.

489

Frank King: Yeah.

490

And same thing, if it started to grab a

cat, all you gotta do is hit the button

491

with a hawk screen and the dog stops.

492

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

493

Frank King: So I wonder

494

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: if

that would work on Spencer.

495

Our dog has a thing

about chasing the bunny.

496

There was

497

a bunny in our backyard.

498

Now my husband and the neighbor down

the street, dug in the fins because I

499

have two escape artists, chihuahuas,

500

Frank King: ah,

501

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: that

can get under like a mouse hole.

502

They could go through and have for years.

503

So we dug in the fence and then

we ended up with the bunny.

504

The bunny, however, has gone under.

505

We have a screened in porch at the back.

506

Yeah.

507

And the bunny goes under

the screened in porch.

508

But the funniest thing happened last year.

509

At the end of the summer, I went

out because something kept going

510

and it sounded like

somebody was at the door.

511

It was so bizarre.

512

And one of the dogs the male

he kept trying to get outside.

513

He kept, he was just going crazy.

514

So I thought, oh fine.

515

I get up and I let him out, and

here's the damn bunny at the door.

516

It's did you just knock at the door?

517

The bunny Spencer chases the bunny, and

then all of a sudden they both stop.

518

The bunny sits up and the

dog sits up and they flip.

519

And then the bunny is chasing the dog.

520

Theme Song: Oh.

521

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And my

husband wouldn't believe me last year.

522

Okay.

523

Until he saw it for himself.

524

It was like, oh my God.

525

That is so weird because the dog is

fast enough, he could catch the bunny.

526

And the bunny is fast enough.

527

He can really get away.

528

He just can't get out of the yard.

529

But they've made it such a game.

530

That he's not trying to get away.

531

He's just trying to, push his

friend into following him.

532

That's one way for me to, to break the

cycle for me, is just go out in the yard.

533

'cause there are a ton of animals out

there that are pretty interesting.

534

Frank King: Cat.

535

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Ah, cat cats are interesting.

536

We we haven't had a cat

for a very long time.

537

Frank King: We have a half a dozen.

538

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh wow.

539

Frank King: I just got it from a nap

where three of 'em were napping with me.

540

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Ah nice.

541

Yeah.

542

Frank King: So I guess it

would truly be a cat nap.

543

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,

it would be a caap for sure.

544

We had a, I think they're

called pixie Bobs.

545

It's a Minnesotan barn cat.

546

Oh, and awesome.

547

And Lynx.

548

Frank King: Manx?

549

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: No.

550

And Lynx.

551

Frank King: Oh, Lynx.

552

Oh, Lynx.

553

Okay.

554

Lynx

555

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

and Minnesotan barn cats.

556

The, it's less than 30

years old, the breed.

557

Oh, they

558

Frank King: have,

559

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: they do have

a short tail, but they look like a lynx.

560

They have odd ears.

561

Yeah.

562

Play fetch better than a dog.

563

And they talk.

564

Ours was so talkative all the time.

565

It was really funny.

566

But she had a, her and my

daughter did not get along.

567

My granddaughter was

getting her hair done.

568

I think she was about four.

569

And she was screaming

at the top of her lungs.

570

'cause it seems any little kid

doesn't wanna get their hair done.

571

And the cat took offense to the screaming

and went after my daughter and ever after.

572

Okay.

573

A year later, my daughter, my

son and my daughter make a plan.

574

She's gonna sneak into town in the

middle of the night for my birthday.

575

Oh.

576

So it's one 30 in the

morning all of a sudden.

577

It sounds like there's a

mountain lion in the front hall

578

and my daughter's screaming, help.

579

And my daughter loves cats.

580

My daughter's always had cats,

but Kasha was just, she was

581

such a strange little beast.

582

Animals are very interesting.

583

Frank King: Yes.

584

My fuzzy little antidepressants.

585

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: They are.

586

They really are.

587

Because if you're feeling down,

your animals are always there.

588

I think everybody should have an animal.

589

I don't think people should be alone.

590

I think they should have an animal

because it is absolutely a comfort.

591

Always.

592

Always.

593

Frank King: Yes.

594

And I was asked to do a summit.

595

She'd booked a suicide prevention speaker.

596

She and the speaker had a falling out over

something and the speaker ghosted her.

597

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Oh, she called me a

598

Frank King: panic.

599

Would I, did I have the time?

600

Sure.

601

I'd be happy to.

602

And said and the idea is that people will

donate money to your favorite charity.

603

So I said it's the pixie project.

604

She goes, what's the pixie project?

605

I said, small animal rescue.

606

And I said, the connection to

mental health is a, I believe

607

everybody should have an animal B.

608

They rescue animals.

609

And I believe, especially if you're

living with a mental illness, when you

610

rescue an animal, they also rescue you.

611

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh yeah.

612

Frank King: This particular

animal rescue does a lot of free

613

veterinary work for the homeless who

oftentimes have a mental illness.

614

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

615

Frank King: So I said there's,

the connection is that they're,

616

they're helping the mentally ill

who are homeless with their animals.

617

And I think anybody, especially

older, I've had people say I don't

618

wanna get a dog because, I'm 65

and I'm afraid I would outlive it.

619

There are a lot of older dogs, 5, 6,

7 years old that are, that go, yeah.

620

That are there to be adopted.

621

Don't get a puppy, get a

three, four, 5-year-old dog

622

that, good dog well behaved,

623

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yeah.

624

And yeah, that companionship.

625

Is absolutely, I believe priceless.

626

I really do believe that's a way

to help people's mental health.

627

And we have a veterinarian here,

628

and her name is Vera, but she travels

around in a mobile van and looks after

629

our homeless population's animals.

630

Frank King: And if you get a dog,

chance are the dog needs to go out.

631

Dog needs to be walked.

632

So he get you out.

633

Yeah.

634

Gets you walking and there's a

subculture of people who walk their dogs.

635

You might bump into somebody really nice

who, Hey, let's have a puppy play date.

636

Hey, let's take a walk together.

637

Yeah.

638

So

639

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yeah, we

have chihuahua play dates all the time.

640

With most, we had I think was 21.

641

Frank King: Chihuahuas

642

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: all together.

643

Yeah.

644

Wow.

645

And my friend's Chihuahua's

birthday is just after my first one.

646

And my first one we thought we

were buying a purebred chihuahua.

647

We were actually rescuing a poorly abused

little chihuahua who was 11 months old.

648

And she's definitely pure

bred, but she came from.

649

They called it Chihuahua heaven.

650

I say it's Chihuahua Hell.

651

Frank King: Okay.

652

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

653

Took us five years to get

her to want to be picked up.

654

Five years.

655

Yeah.

656

But she's a little darling on her terms.

657

She's definitely on her terms.

658

But it's.

659

To me I think all the time we,

whether we rescue them, they

660

always end up rescuing us.

661

Yes.

662

Having that unconditional love of an

animal, be it a dog or what have you.

663

But this this birthday party, they

had a little pool and they had some

664

little sunglasses for dogs that

they were taking pictures of, some

665

of the chihuahuas and they had a.

666

A Barie board.

667

I have

668

some of the craziest pictures, and

it's fascinating to see these tiny

669

little pack of monsters roaming around.

670

It's very loud.

671

Mind you.

672

Frank King: Yeah, there's an old joke.

673

One of my personal favorites

about dogs and husbands says.

674

Put your dog and your husband

in your trunk, the trunk of

675

your car, and close the lid.

676

Come back in an hour.

677

Open the lid of the trunk.

678

See who's happy to see you.

679

Theme Song: Oh, I love that.

680

Frank King: Yeah.

681

Yeah.

682

Hey, you're back.

683

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

I might have to try that.

684

Frank King: Yeah, that's, I'm telling you,

685

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I don't know

how thrilled he'll be with you when I

686

tell him Frank said I should do this.

687

Frank King: Yeah, that's right.

688

Yeah.

689

Get in the car, honey.

690

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

691

Yeah.

692

We have an SUV.

693

It's not,

694

Frank King: oh, I

695

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: wouldn't

have the same impacts progress.

696

Frank King: No, it wouldn't

have quite the same effect.

697

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

698

Frank King: Yeah.

699

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: But it's.

700

On the the subject of homeless and

their pets and vets and all of that.

701

We have a lot of people that will go to

certain pet stores and we had a group

702

of pet stores in the west end of Ottawa,

shout out, out to Carla Briese, who

703

used to give all the sample dog foods.

704

Oh, package them up and take them

downtown to our homeless population.

705

'cause there's, they

have quite a few animals.

706

Yep.

707

And when I was at the region, I

used to do that as well 'cause

708

I was working right downtown.

709

And it's just, it doesn't take you much,

you don't have to do it all the time.

710

But if you happen to have your pet

and you go into the pet store and

711

they offer you some of the bags of

trial dog food, why not take them and

712

make sure that you give them out to

somebody that doesn't have the same

713

ability you have to feed their animal.

714

Frank King: Yes.

715

And I think sure.

716

Society of Human Resource Managers,

they have an initiative where,

717

they're in the meetings business.

718

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

719

Frank King: They collect shampoo, soaps

and other things you get at the hotel.

720

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

721

Yeah.

722

Frank King: And then

723

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

we do that as well.

724

We have actually, we, there is a lady

here in Ottawa, her name is Shauna Tido

725

and for, to my knowledge, at least the

past five years, this woman spends her

726

days checking on our homeless population.

727

She is forever Correct.

728

Collecting like Tim Horton's

cards and McDonald's cards.

729

Yeah.

730

And the women's groups here in Ottawa.

731

Just before Christmas, we do cookie

drives and hampers Christmas baskets.

732

And again, this year we did the cookie

drive and took them all to the homeless,

733

a backpack that was full of shampoo and

all the little necessities, but also

734

some really delicious home baked cookies

that were wrapped up for everybody.

735

And Shauna.

736

Has been doing this, like I said,

for at least five years all the

737

time, which is just, I like shutting

out some of the wonderful people

738

that we come across in this world.

739

Yeah.

740

Because, yeah, it's just amazing.

741

Frank King: And I bumped into a

woman speaking at the event where

742

the people watched the body cam

videos and this woman named Polly.

743

She came up and she said, I

saw you last October at the

744

Washington State Patrol event.

745

Ah, and I came up to you afterwards

and I asked you, hang on one second.

746

Okay.

747

Yeah.

748

I had another what do you call,

another zoom coming up, but she'd

749

like to reshoot for next week.

750

No problem.

751

Anyway, she said, I asked you about

my friend I knew was, for lack of

752

a better term, circling the drain.

753

I had mentioned to her.

754

Adult children, I believe she

was going to end her life.

755

And they said no, she'd never do that.

756

But Polly was afraid that she was serious.

757

She had

758

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,

759

Frank King: time, place, and method.

760

Ooh.

761

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: So she asked

762

Frank King: me what I thought she

should do, and I said, you should.

763

I confront her about it.

764

I guess not, yeah not in a bad way,

but in a, Hey, I see what's going on.

765

I know you need help.

766

Yeah, I, so anyway, she

did, she stepped up.

767

Wow.

768

And she said, I warned her I said,

the woman's gonna be upset with you.

769

Yeah.

770

She's gonna be mad.

771

She's gonna infringe on Facebook, but

at least she'll be around to do yeah.

772

She confronted her about it.

773

The woman was mad, but the woman agreed.

774

To go with her to get help and the

woman is still alive to this day.

775

Oh,

776

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yay.

777

Frank King: And now is grateful

that her friend stepped up.

778

Yeah.

779

So I thought that that's one of the

therapeutic elements of what I do is

780

somebody absolutely doesn't, has no idea

what to do, had loose ends, how do I help?

781

And I'm sure there are other people

I'd never hear about, but it was nice

782

for her to come up and let me know.

783

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh my

God, that was wonderful, Polly.

784

Awesome.

785

Awesome.

786

Frank King: Yep.

787

She yeah, and it happens, if I see

somebody that I've seen before, I did

788

a show in did a presentation in Vegas

789

father there whose son was struggling,

and I gave him the advice that I told

790

you, join the conversation in his head.

791

Tell him he's not a burden.

792

Tell him he's.

793

You'd never be better off without him.

794

And I was on a panel with the

gentleman who had booked me this year.

795

Here we are all together.

796

He said, and I spoke and he

was getting ready to speak.

797

He said, Frank, wait, don't go.

798

Don't leave.

799

Gotta tell you.

800

I heard from that gentleman that

you spoke to after you, and he

801

said he believes his son's alive

because of the advice you gave him.

802

So

803

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

see that, that is so wonder.

804

Wonderful.

805

And as we, I.

806

As these good stories pile up, we're

hoping that the stats are going down.

807

That's absolutely my aim.

808

And I know it's yours as well.

809

Frank King: Yes.

810

Yep.

811

Somebody said to me, what's your goal?

812

My, my daily goal is to save a life a day.

813

Yeah.

814

I said my big audacious was it, hagg goal.

815

Huge audacious goal.

816

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yes.

817

Is it?

818

Yeah.

819

Frank King: People quit.

820

Quit killing themselves.

821

I said.

822

I know.

823

That's a long shot.

824

Yeah.

825

But hey if we get close

826

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh yeah.

827

Close would be excellent.

828

Frank King: Yeah.

829

My dream is that somebody goes,

Hey, I hear you're not speaking

830

on suicide prevention anymore.

831

How come?

832

People quit killing themselves.

833

I'd like to work myself outta a job.

834

Thank you.

835

That is

836

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: so wonderful.

837

Yes.

838

Put Yeah and we'll put you out of

a job and put me out of speaking

839

and podcasting as well, which to

me would be absolutely amazing.

840

It's so incredibly important,

and to that end, having people

841

on to talk about these things.

842

Every single guest I've had on this show

like you is so open to talking to people.

843

That are in crisis and it's, to

me, I think it's one of the most

844

important things we can ever do.

845

Whatever your purpose is giving

somebody, I've said this before, give

846

one stranger 10 minutes once a month.

847

If each of us did that would be 12 people

a year that are no longer strangers.

848

Hopefully 12 people.

849

Got it.

850

Stay.

851

Theme Song: Yeah,

852

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

because everybody has a story.

853

Frank King: Yes.

854

And after I speak, I hear a lot of 'em.

855

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

856

Yeah.

857

Except,

858

Frank King: yeah, some

of 'em are terrifying.

859

Oh yeah.

860

Yeah.

861

I got another one on top of the hour, even

though the first Lady's gonna reschedule.

862

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That

part is good, but I think that

863

un until we lower the numbers enough that

you and I aren't doing this work anymore.

864

I think I would like you to make a.

865

Continuous return to the show.

866

Frank King: Oh, sure.

867

Absolutely.

868

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Because I

think you always have great ideas.

869

You always have new information.

870

And I'm always happy to talk

871

Frank King: to you as my

friends say he's full of it

872

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

and that's a good thing.

873

Frank King: That's a good thing.

874

Yeah,

875

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: absolutely.

876

I totally love that.

877

And you reinvigorate me too.

878

Frank King: Oh, good.

879

I'm glad I can have an impact on you.

880

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,

I think you have a wonderful

881

impact on me and everyone else.

882

With that said, I thank you so

much for coming today, Frank.

883

We will have all frank's information

down below in the transcript.

884

In our show notes, we'll have

links, so if you want to get Frank

885

to speak to you and your group,

you'll know how you can find him.

886

We'll also have the QR code on the

screen when we end again, so that

887

people can make sure that they

can link to stop, drop and roll.

888

Yes, I think that's excellent.

889

What a wonderful idea.

890

Agreed.

891

I'll be sure and also put that

in any posts we do about the

892

show today because I Yeah, said

893

Frank King: I just came across it

this past, within the last 10 days.

894

I'd never seen it before.

895

Wow.

896

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Yeah, I'd never heard of that.

897

I think that's absolutely brilliant.

898

Frank King: Yep.

899

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Because

it's something we've all heard.

900

Frank King: Yes.

901

And know exactly what's going on.

902

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

903

Yeah.

904

Frank King: And as I said, look, you

gotta want the fire to go out the,

905

and you gotta drop to the ground.

906

The ground's not coming up to help.

907

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

908

Yeah.

909

Oh.

910

Absolutely.

911

And that way you know that

person really does want help.

912

Frank King: Yeah, exactly.

913

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

914

Frank King: Alright young lady.

915

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Alright young man.

916

Good to see you.

917

Yep.

918

We'll we'll say our goodbyes.

919

Goodbye to the audience.

920

My guest, Frank King.

921

I thank him very much.

922

I'm Elaine Lindsay,

suicide and forgiveness.

923

And as per usual, make the very

best of your today, every day,

924

and we'll see you next time.

925

Bye for now.

926

Voiceover: Thank you for being

here for another inspiring episode

927

of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

928

We appreciate you tuning in.

929

Please subscribe and download on your

favorite service and check out SFS

930

YouTube channel or Facebook community.

931

If you have the chance to leave

a five star rating or review,

932

it'd be greatly appreciated.

933

Please refer this to a friend you

know, who may benefit from the hope

934

and inspiration from our guests.

935

Suicide Zen Forgiveness was

brought to you by the following

936

sponsors, true social Media.

937

The digital integration specialists.

938

Let them get your rock in page

one in the search results.

939

Canada's keynote, humorous, Judy Croon,

motivational speaker, comedian, author,

940

and standup coach at Second City.

941

Judy has been involved for over

a decade in the City Street

942

Outreach program in Toronto.

943

Do you have a story to share?

944

Do you know someone you think would

be a great guests silence Hero?

945

Please go to SZF four two.com

946

and for our American listeners,

that's s zf four two.com.

947

Steadfast.

948

Thank you for listening.

949

To see you again

950

Theme Song: through the pain.

951

We all belong together

in hope because you.