Shownotes
In this episode me and my guest Chelsea Abril explore going beyond the pressure of finding a niche or having your one thing and stepping into the vibrant world of multipassionate entrepreneurship. Together we challenge the age-old narrative of "mastering one craft." This episode is a safe haven for those grappling with the "jack of all trades" stigma and a reminder that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Questioning the typical entrepreneurial coaching advice, we engage in a candid discussion about the liberation that comes from pursuing a variety of passions and how that is actually the thing that makes you unique. They delve into the value of cultivating a supportive community, the transformative power of Marli's "retreat retreat," and how to navigate your multipassionate path with joy. If you've ever caught yourself overthinking and obsessing over the "right" way to do business, let this episode be your beacon. Don’t miss the wisdom, wit, and warmth Marli and Chelsea bring as they reflect on redefining success.
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Chelsea Abril is a life + business coach helping multipassionate creatives build the most fulfilling, magical, chin up, tits out versions of success.
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Transcripts
We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.
Marli Williams [:Well, hey, everyone. What is happening? Welcome back to the Marli Williams podcast where this week, I am hanging out with my friend Chelsea Abril, who is a business and life coach for multipassionate entrepreneurs. You don't have to be good at just one thing. You can like lots of things. And today's episode is all about giving you permission to be as multi passionate, multi talented as you wanna be, knowing that you can succeed as a multipassionate entrepreneur and that you don't have to just niche down and pick one thing. So that is what our conversation is all about today. And just a quick announcement before we get the party started, There are still a few spots left in my upcoming retreat that's called the retreat retreat. For those of you out there who've been wanting to lead your own epically transformational retreat, but you've gotten stuck along the way, I have a few spots left for the retreat retreat coming up in May in Bend, Oregon.
Marli Williams [:So if you are interested in learning more, check out the link in the show notes. Would love to have you join us. Alright. Well, that is my public service announcement for today. I can't wait to dive into this powerful conversation with Chelsea. Let's do this. Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time.
Marli Williams [:I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marley Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in. Alright, everybody. I am super stoked to welcome you back to the Marley Williams podcast. Woo hoo.
Marli Williams [:Or today, I'm hanging out with my good friend, Chelsea. Abril, welcome to the show. Super stoked to have you.
Chelsea Abril [:Thank you. I'm so excited. It is an honor to be here.
Marli Williams [:Oh my goodness. Can't wait. We met at our friend mutual friend's wedding recently. Yes. And got to share an amazing experience together. And I love your energy. I love your passion. I love what you're up to.
Marli Williams [:And the fun thing is that we didn't really get to talk about a whole lot.
Chelsea Abril [:We didn't about what it is that
Marli Williams [:you do in the world. They were just like Chelsea needs to be on your podcast. So here we are, and I thought instead of me totally botching your intro, I would give you a chance to tell the people out in the world as a multi passionate entrepreneur what you are up to, what is happening, for you in the work that you do, and how you serve people, how you help people, and then we'll dive in for our conversation today.
Chelsea Abril [:So, my name's Chelsea. I am from Hawaii. I live in Seattle. I've been a wedding photographer for ages. I was shooting the wedding that we met at, and I ventured into the world of coaching in 2019. And I didn't know it then, but that was the first, like, real permission I ever gave myself to be a multipassionate before I had ever even heard that word. I thought especially in the photography world, and I don't know if this is true for many other niches. But in order to be a, quote, unquote, real photographer, it had to be the only thing you were doing.
Chelsea Abril [:You had to you had to burn every other bridge. You couldn't be doing it part time. Otherwise, you just weren't taken seriously. Like, you had to be a photographer, period. And not a photographer of everything either, but a wedding photographer, a portrait photographer. There was this fucking rude idea that, well, if you just do a bunch of stuff, that must mean you aren't that good at the one thing then if you have to be doing all these other things. And I'm like, okay. Yeah.
Chelsea Abril [:I was very much I was like, you have Kool Aid? Let me drink it. Sure. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to fix it. And so on TikTok ages ago, they're like, I don't even know what my favorite color is, and it felt a lot like that until I got to the point where I'm like, I actually don't know what my favorite color is anymore. I don't know what I actually like. I don't know what's part of my personality or something I took from somebody else. I was just chameleoning my way through my multiple six figures.
Chelsea Abril [:And the money was great, but I didn't feel any real sense of, like, fulfillment. Like, I enjoyed my work, but there wasn't anything afterwards. It was just like, this is fine. I don't feel great. I'm mostly stressed. And any of the achievement was like, well, cool. I just have to do it again. I do it better next time.
Chelsea Abril [:I do I make more money. That seems stressful. I just have to keep going. And when I ventured into coaching, it started as photography mentorship because that seems like a a normal thing to transition after being a photographer for so long. And I realized very quickly, I was like, no. Get me out of this niche. Get me out of here. I don't actually want to teach people this because it feels like I'm teaching you how to get burned out again because that's all I really learned in photography.
Chelsea Abril [:I wanna teach you how to be expansive and have boundaries and, like, express yourself. And I want you to have your best chin up, tips out life, whatever that means and however that looks. I don't care what it is as long as it means something to you. So as it's progressed, it's ventured more into, like, the intersection of life and business coaching. I'm a big advocate that they are not, in fact, separate, especially for multipassionate people. Like, we just bleed into every area of our lives, and it's harder. It's more effort to separate them. So what if we just have them both feel good? Imagine that.
Chelsea Abril [:So that's what I love to do with my clients. A lot of them are also coming from the space of, I've been doing this thing and I'm really good at it, and they either love it and want to expand, or they're like, I've kinda peaked, and I'm kinda bored. If I do this too much longer, I'll run into the ground out of spite. So, like, great. Let's figure out what the next new expansive thing is. Like, what would feel fulfilling? How would you express it? Sometimes it does turn into a new business, and sometimes it just turns into a different expression. But the outcome with all of my clients has been able to have, like, a deeper understanding of themselves, a deeper understanding of how to feel expansive, and how to even notice what it would look like and, like, really just create more of it and finding, like, the balance and, like, the holistic expression, like, the most holistic shit up, tits out expression of themselves in their life and their business and wherever the fuck else they wanna have it. The seed of understanding that gets to explode everywhere.
Marli Williams [:I'm here for it, and that is why could tell that we were, like, on the same page.
Chelsea Abril [:We're vibing.
Marli Williams [:About this idea of of being multipassionate. And, you know, when I think about that word is that you don't have to have one thing. Again, this kind of narrative, like, this old way of doing business. Find the one thing. Find the niche. Again, not just a photographer, a wedding photographer. And, like, that's the only thing that you are allowed to do. And if you want to do more than that, then you're never gonna be good at all of it.
Marli Williams [:There's this old narrative. And my hope for us today and this conversation is, 1, just to give people permission to love what you love and that you can love more than one thing in your life and in your business and to really elevate what's possible in the expression of whatever it is that's lighting you up. Have you heard the jack of all trades quote?
Chelsea Abril [:Bring it. Left. Okay. So for me, I've been multi talented, multi passionate since I was a kid, and I was just like, alright. Let's focus you in, and Chelsea, let's hone in on one thing. And it was very much that. And I was like, okay. Cool.
Chelsea Abril [:Yeah. Yeah. Let me just put those on the back when there's Of course, there's a time and a place to, like, hyperfocus on something to really give it the attention it deserves. But I heard jack of all trades as, a negative. So I had always people, oh, jack of all trades. Like, oh, yeah. Here she goes. Of course, she can do that or whatever, but, like, okay.
Chelsea Abril [:And it was kind of flippant whenever it was like, oh, jack of all trades. However, I've been missed a couple years ago. Blew my top. So jack of all trades, master of none, oftentimes better than a master of 1. So as a multifaceted person, I never realized that. Like yeah. And that's my favorite thing now. Like, I feel like I have such a wide range of interests and a wide variety of skills and talents and, like, lived experience so that when I get to go and support my clients or just, like, exist in my fucking life, I have such a deep, wide well to choose from.
Chelsea Abril [:And the way, like and this is what I love with all my multipassion people. It's like, we have a really cool, wide well, not just a deep well, of things to offer people. And the way that you get to offer it because it's so unique is so unique. Like, you get to pull from all these different places and create these really cool experiences, these cool solutions to the problems that people are having in a way that no one else could. And I used to think, and maybe this will ring for some of my multi passionate people, is that I had to be a master in all. Not just a master of what. If I was gonna be a jack of all trades, well, time to go get a cert in fucking everything that I was interested. Listen.
Chelsea Abril [:I have way too many interests to go be certain. Go get certifications and training in every single one of them. And, like, the biggest relief when I was like, well, you don't have to be. Your expertise is doing all of those things in a way and packaging it up in a way that makes sense and feels, like, fulfilling and and honest in the way that you do it. Like and if you're not a marketer, but you have marketing experience, which that's me, I'm like, I can get you to Aether j is what I can help you with. Cool. You wanna take it further? Perfect. Here is everyone who's gonna take you all the way to z.
Chelsea Abril [:It's not me, but go to them, get those skills, practice those things, and then come back, and we'll continue our progress together, infusing that knowledge, that new knowledge, making sure that you implement it, and it it gets to show up in ways that make sense instead of, again, here's all this information. You're an expert now. Good luck implementing, and good luck keeping up this new behavior.
Marli Williams [:This narrative of, like, the master of 1, and I've been an entrepreneur now for the past 8 years. And the entire time, I think I've asked myself this question. Like, what's my thing? You know, and we hear this shit all the time. What's the one thing that people come to you for? What do you wanna be known for? What do you wanna be a thought leader in? Right? This is the narrative. And if I were to write, like, a children's book for adults, it would be called, like, are you my thing? Right? Like, the book that was, like, are you my mother? What is my thing? And this story that I've had to, like, rewire is I I think that the belief is once I know my thing and have my thing, then I'll be successful. And without it, I won't. I'll just live here in this purgatory of trying to figure it out. Exactly.
Marli Williams [:And the analysis paralysis, the, like, trying to find the one signature talk, the one signature program, the one signature offer, like, the thing that you wanna be known for. When in reality, you know, similar to you, I have been multitalented, multipassionate my whole life. My girlfriend got me a mug that says, what are you not fucking good at? Or something like that with, like, a little cat on it. Is there anything you're not good at? And it's like, I can learn things. I can pick things up. I'm a quick start. I'm intuitive. I'm adaptable.
Marli Williams [:Like, facilitation, I got you. Leading retreats, you know, coaching, life, business, you know, what kind of coach are you? Mindset, confidence, what do you want? What do you need? And I think that that's one thing that I have done is I've tried to outsource my knowing to other people.
Chelsea Abril [:Moment of silence for that. Oh my god. Outsource tell me more about that.
Marli Williams [:Outsource your knowing. I'm someone who is always learning and growing, personal development, you know, sign up for the retreat, sign up for the coach. But I think it's interesting when I've done it from a place of, like, I want someone else to tell me the thing.
Chelsea Abril [:That's, like, the number one thing when people come to work with me. Like, honestly, I just want someone to tell me what to do. I'm so fucking over it, and I'm so overwhelmed trying to decide what the next one thing is, what the next how to prioritize, what to choose. Like and I would say the real question under the I don't actually I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm overwhelmed. It's not from a, oh my god. How do I figure this out? It's, oh my god.
Chelsea Abril [:I have thousands of ideas, and I don't know where to put them or I don't know where I don't know what to pick from. And then the question is, like, what's the most effective? What's the most ROI? What's the most the best way to spend my time? And those are great questions. And, you know, we all have this finite amount amount of time in the day. We're all same 24 hours. But, like, that pressure again just to choose the one thing. And even that I see, everyone is separating things so fucking niche. And I'm like, this could be its own thing. These three things are one thing.
Chelsea Abril [:Tell me why they're separate in your mind. Like, tell me how your brain is working. I work with a lot of people who are, like, on some spectrum of, like, neurodivergence, and most of them struggle a lot with just, like, trying to fit their ideas or the way that their brains work into a neurotypical sort of funnel. They're like, sure. I get why this should work. I see what the next logical step could be. Can't do it. A 100%.
Marli Williams [:Literally this morning was, like, on a webinar where it's like, make the free offer and have the compelling title. And I get it and, like, heard it 1800 times, and I'm still not doing it. I think it would be super fun. Why not put this out there? Mini coaching moment. Me, you, I am a multi passionate entrepreneur. Right? Feeling like this pressure to choose the one thing. And then this, like, underlying story or belief that's like, if I had the one thing and the one talk thought leader platform that, like, this is what I'm known for, Again, the narrative in the story is, then I would be wildly successful. And the reason I'm not as successful as I want to be is because I haven't picked the thing.
Marli Williams [:What do I do? I'm here. And I think that people come to you and, like, someone like me, I feel like I have this untapped potential. I know I am meant for more. I am no I meant to impact millions of people and, like, I have this desire, and yet I am in a transition right now in my business to try to figure out, like, what is the next evolution? What is the next phase? And what feels the most fun, juicy, chin up, tits up, aligned life and business that I wanna build. And because I'm like, there's a lot of things I could do. There's a lot of things I have done. Masterminds, retreats, events, coaching. Chelsea, tell me the thing.
Marli Williams [:Alright. So how would you coach someone like me? Because I'm probably not alone.
Chelsea Abril [:If I were gonna ask you what your values were specifically as they relate to entrepreneurship, would you be able to give me a list of your top 5 to 10?
Marli Williams [:I mean, I could go 5 to 10, but freedom and impact are my top 2. The freedom to live the life I want, do what I want with who I want to do it with when I want to. Like, just having freedom in my life, number 1. Number 2 value is I I am here to make an impact. I'm here to make a difference. So it's more people, the better. And, like, bigger stage, bigger audience, here for impact. Community and connection, relationships, having really nurturing connections and relationships in my own life, but then I really value helping other people connect to each other.
Marli Williams [:So community, connection, adventure, play, joy, fun. Like, my big thing is, like, if it's not fun, I'm not gonna probably do it.
Chelsea Abril [:If it's not fun, I'm sucking out for sure. That is a also a primary value of mine. And just to quickly comment on that, that's also something where I feel like, yes. Some things aren't that fun. However, I'm a big fucking believer that you can sandwich the unfun things with fun and still have an overall umbrella of fun that gets to, you know, circle your life. But there's this idea, like, it's unfun. Be in the unfun. I'm like, I get it.
Chelsea Abril [:I get it. But if you wanna believe that there are things that just cannot be fun and you can't infuse any sort of fun or ease into them, I'm like, okay. Alright. So we have for you to repeat that back with I have so many things. I have all of this untapped potential. What do I do next? Right? So you you have multiple big ideas. You've you've done a lot of things before. You have all of this lived experience of being, like, massively influential, of having great impact of and so you've done all these things.
Chelsea Abril [:You've you've already been able to cultivate freedom with yourself, time, etcetera, impact, community, connection, the relationships of yourself, and fostering relationships with others. You prioritize adventure, play, joy, and fun. Like, those already exist in your life. The first thing I would have you do, and for anyone listening who's feeling similarly, is, one, if you don't know what your values are, like, that's the first thing to look at. First thing. And so even with this, a value that may or may not live on this for you is income. Like, is income the most important thing? Is is that does that live in hierarchy somewhere on your list?
Marli Williams [:I mean, when I think about freedom and impact, I think freedom is, like, I have enough money to do what I want.
Chelsea Abril [:You know what your threshold of enough money is. Right?
Marli Williams [:Like, a number? Yeah.
Chelsea Abril [:For you. You don't have to say it if you don't want to, but you you in your mind know what your threshold is.
Marli Williams [:I do. And, I mean, if I were to add another value, I think it would be abundance. Just this, like, there is more than enough time, energy, resources for getting to do all the things that I desire.
Chelsea Abril [:Perfect. The one other thing that's super interesting that I often see when people when I do this exercise with people to try and find what their values are is a lot of them come out very vanilla. And that may be fine, but some people are like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Of course. I want more money, and I want time, and I want abundance, and I I want to have, community and connection. Of course. The my favorite thing to do in addition to this is when you look at these and when you read them back, is there a different word? Is there a more Marli word that really means any of these for you? And sometimes it's like, no.
Chelsea Abril [:These actually mean it. I, 100%, am on board. The play that can come from this again, if we love fun, if we love joy and adventure, is what is the next level Marli word that can replace this value that would absolutely be so fucking clear for you. It wouldn't have to make sense to anybody else. Off the top of your head, is there any of those that you would replace with anything else?
Marli Williams [:It's a good question. I don't have one off the cuff, though.
Chelsea Abril [:It's a fun thing to consider.
Marli Williams [:Yeah. Like, what would make it more me? A playtime.
Chelsea Abril [:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And what I also love to do and for you, when you think of planning, do you plan out 3 months, 6 months, a year? Like, what's your most immediate time frame that you think of?
Marli Williams [:To happen, like, in the next 3 hours tomorrow? I think that that is one area as an entrepreneur. Like, I am not the best at forecasting strategic planning of, like, okay. What's my game plan for the next 3 months? What's my game plan for the next 6 months or the next, like, year? What do I wanna build? What do I wanna create? What do I wanna focus on? Like, I, for the past 8 years, have done this thing that I call I built a business on the premise called just wing it. Justwingit.com.
Chelsea Abril [:I like to fuck around and find out is also my business model.
Marli Williams [:I'm just fucking around and finding out. The great thing and the challenging thing is somehow, some way, I have been relatively successful in just wing it land. It works, but it just works enough. I get it. It works enough that there's not sometimes, like, enough pain. Even the pain is there. Like, I don't always know how much money I'm gonna make next month or, like, this year because, oh, you know? But it's like, oh, I just got an email asking for someone to hire me for a speaking event for $75100. Cool.
Marli Williams [:Guess that's how much I'm making like that week or whatever. You know? I have a lot of faith and trust because that's just like how I've been doing it and know that there's this belief or the the quote that says, what got you here won't get you there. And for whatever, I know there's there is a next level that just wing it land isn't going to necessarily work to get me there, potentially.
Chelsea Abril [:Here's something that I will say. And I I, like, was just on another friend's podcast, and we were talking about this. They're like, how did you start your business? I was like, bitch, I was fucking vibing, and it worked. And it's been working for 10 years. And, sure, I've hit some speed bumps, and it'd be great if I had some really cool rock solid systems that didn't buck every fucking 3 months, but it's working. Like, it's working out so far. And, absolutely, I agree that there will be a point where I'm like, okay. Let's buckle down.
Chelsea Abril [:But will I? Fucking will I? And even that is I'm saying we as the collective. We hear this like, okay. Yeah. You're willy nilly. You're all over the place. I hear. My story is if I could just get organized
Marli Williams [:if I
Chelsea Abril [:could just get organized and really get my systems in place, then I could really get to my point c. Here's what I do know. You talked about outsourcing your knowing before. I have tried so hard to do different systems, and I've had so many different systems in place. And I've given them their window to sprout. And I'm like, I fucking hate these. I hate them. I don't like them.
Chelsea Abril [:And so there's for me, again, I am okay with and I am also encouraged my clients, like, at some level, because I understand that many of my clients have this same, like, proclivity maybe is the word. Seasonality is, like, so important, and we don't think in a year. Let's plan out your year. Hilarious. I don't know what I want in July. Oh, you think it wants the same thing in October? likes. So I'm very much like, even with these values, we can have our core set of values that live. I like to speaking of nation down, I like to get even clearer, like, what do you mean? What are your values specifically in the way you offer or the way you exist in your business or, like, your client relationships? You can have a different set of values for each piece of the pie, and they'll probably mostly stay the same, but you'll see them adjust a little bit in each space.
Chelsea Abril [:So that's even a fun thing to explore. So when I'm speaking, do I have a different set of values when I'm speaking? Like, is there something else that comes in or is there something else that leaves? But I'm a big fan of seasonality. So when we think about this next season, like, for me, season 1, q 1, I had different values than I have now going into into q 2. Like, I was like, okay. Discipline. And I mean discipline in the way that I want to reacquaint with this in the way that it's a form of self love for me. Like, I want to have integrity with myself, so my intentions and my values change each season. Of course, there's, like, the underlying ones, but I know that the ones that guide me in q one are rarely the ones that are really guiding me in q 3.
Chelsea Abril [:So that's been a fun exploration of your permission of yourself. Like, don't force yourself to be in a time frame that doesn't make sense to you. It's somebody else's time frame. Maybe one day you'll be like, wow. 365, that makes sense to me. Or, like, 30 days or 90 days doesn't make sense anymore. Great. Cool.
Chelsea Abril [:Orient to that, but don't force yourself to orient so hard to something that just doesn't fit. And I'm a really kinesthetic person, which I feel like you might be also. What I hear people say is I'm vibing. I'm like, fucking bet. Me too. And we feel. We feel very deeply. So I know fucking immediately if I'm like, this isn't gonna work.
Chelsea Abril [:As as far as it relates to a system or a way of thinking or a strategy that someone else is using, I'm like, I see the merit. Consciously, common sense, I see the merit in exactly what you're telling me. I'm feeling immediately that there is something amiss there for me. So, oftentimes, we either push through and try and try and try and square peg round hole and it's exhausting and it just affirms that, we're bad at organization. We're bad at this. So, like, must not be for me. Versus when I do this with my clients, like, great. So what do you wanna do? Cool.
Chelsea Abril [:What system could feel good? Alright. What don't you like about this? Where are you getting stuck? And we get to address step by step. How do we change it? What does it look like to sandwich this with fun then? You don't wanna send 14 emails? Bitch, send 1. Love that for you. We can still get the same result with a different approach. And so the biggest, like, heartache I feel like I see with with my clients and with myself and with the multipassionates at large is this the forcing of other people's systems because we see that someone else has the result that we're looking for, so, of course, I should follow them. Like, that duh. They're doing it.
Chelsea Abril [:But they're also not us. They're not a nurse. They're probably maybe they're not even women. Maybe they're not brown women or queer women or whatever. Like, the whole point of us having this really cool wide net wide pool to choose from is we have to, like, let the net fall and expand over who we are, not just like, let me squeeze through this tiny hole and, oh, no. I'm stuck. Dang it. There's so much room.
Chelsea Abril [:Like, I don't think any strategy should be taken at face value ever. Any formula and any flow. Like, no. We gotta curate.
Marli Williams [:And I I think that it's so important to really hear this and let it land because in the world of instant gratification and scrolling and
Chelsea Abril [:the Instagrams and the TikToks of, like, we do hear these messages
Marli Williams [:of, like, TikToks of, like, we do hear these messages of, like, if you just did this one thing, this was the thing that helped me build the 6 figure, 7 figure business. If you knew this one thing and implemented it, then you'd be wildly successful. And we all want the blue pill or the whatever. Like, just tell me what to do, and then I'll do it. And then you learn maybe, again, this worked for you and really reassessing. And even, you know, at the beginning of the year, like, they have, like, that big ass calendar that takes up your whole room for an an entire year.
Chelsea Abril [:I aspire to be a type a fucking spreadsheet, girly. It is an aspiration, and I'm like and it just isn't who I am. Like, I just
Marli Williams [:I have had I have had other mentors and other coaches, and I've seen their Williams. And I'm like, I think that what happens is there's compare and despair that happens for me of, like, they have it figured out and they have something that I don't have. They have a way of being, a way of doing things, a way of operating. They have systems. They have team. They have they're good at delegating, they're good at strategic planning. Like, that's why they're successful, and that's why I'm not successful or as successful as I wanna be. You know, when I think about I'm a 7.
Marli Williams [:I'm an Aries. I have a lot of ideas, and I'm a quick start follow through. Like, not as great. I have a retreat coming up. And, you know, I'm not looking for 80 people or 800 people. I'm looking for 8 people, 8 humans. And I'm like, why after 8 years, does it still feel like an uphill battle? And this is me getting real with y'all. It feels vulnerable to share the I still feel like I have to convince people that it's worth it, convince people of the value, like, how many times I have to share this.
Marli Williams [:I wish that I could just send an email and it would fill up with the right aligned people. And why why do I still have to work so hard to fill, like, 8 spots for a retreat? That blows my mind. And then my story is I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing something right. I'm not blah blah blah. I don't have the systems. I'm not marketing this to the right person. I'm not whatever.
Marli Williams [:I'm not doing something. And I think that that's where we get caught in the the lies in the Instagram trap or the the stories of, like, sold out retreat course, and then you sign up for the sold out retreat course. You know? Because they're they're hitting that pain point of just tell me how to do it. If you have the system, if you have this formula, if you have this plan,
Chelsea Abril [:then your retreat would
Marli Williams [:be sold out. And the reason it's not sold out is because you don't have my course.
Chelsea Abril [:I love a good quick win purchase, personally. And so I have a course graveyard, and I have a template graveyard. And I have all these things that I think, this will be the thing that really gets me over the hump. Like, they're gonna say in a way that's gonna make sense, and I'm still just met with the same information. It's not that I they're telling me stuff I know. I am aware of conflict. We're smart people. I only work with smart people.
Chelsea Abril [:I only end up in groups with smart fucking people. If you're listening, you're a smart person. It's not that you don't lack information. It's that you haven't been supported enough or given the right tools or given yourself permission enough to just fucking add some toppings to this little Sunday. Like, it's not face value, and it's hard to do that. What I hate about the Internet and what I love about the Internet, I love that there is an abundance. Any solution that you're looking for is on the Internet. You look long enough, you can find the solution you're looking for.
Chelsea Abril [:You keep looking long enough, you will find the conflicting solution for that, conflicting information, conflicting opinions. And so there's a point where, like, we gotta stay in our lane, and we have to just trust what we're trying. And what I see a lot too is, especially with this, it's not what's the next thing. The real question usually underneath it is I don't wanna choose the wrong thing. I don't wanna choose the thing that's not gonna work. And what if this doesn't and thing? Like, what's the best thing I should be doing? The fear is that you'll choose the wrong thing and waste your time and fail or be embarrassing or whatever because it's all a fucking performance and it has to be perfect, and this one has to sell out, or I'm not a good retreat person, or I have to fill my coaching roster, or I'm not a real coach, or whatever. And what I love, and this is kind of we mentioned earlier, like, the market is different. Like, so that used to work.
Chelsea Abril [:I used to be able to send an email, and people were like, I'm in. No questions. Let's go. And there is a thing too, and you might experience it for people who are established, is you have your warm market. This is kind of a tangent, but it'll connect. Stick with me. We have our warm market, and that's the easy sell. We may stay there.
Chelsea Abril [:We may be able to offer different things, but we can stay in our relatively warm or even our hot market for a while. Then we'll have solved their problems. Look. You've done it. Good job. And then we expand to the slightly so we just keep expanding, slightly less warm, slightly less warm, slightly less warm. And so inevitably, the things that we used to do with our warm market no longer translate to a cold market, a cold lead, a cold DM. Anyway, this is a much more expanded conversation about, like, marketing and personal writing and storytelling and all these different things.
Chelsea Abril [:But the one lesson and the one thing to take, because I can't talk to you for 5 hours, is that everything is just data. And so we're talking about play, enjoying, and adventure? Cool. Let's have a fucking adventure. I'm gonna stick to this one thing, and I'm gonna test it out. And I'm gonna offer it with the intention of testing, with the intention of being flexible, with the intention of being able to listen to my audience and adapt. Even before we do that, when was the last time you talked to your audience? When was the last time you asked them what they're looking for? Like, is the solution you're still offering the problem they're still having? And a lot of times, I know for me at least, I've gone like, this is the program and this how it works and here's the container and la la la. Like, here is 123 a b c. And everyone's like, cool.
Chelsea Abril [:Thanks. No. Like, what do you mean? This is this is the market research I did 5 years ago. What do you mean it's not still accurate? So even that, like, the willingness to continually be learning, like, the expertise for me and the people that I follow, the people that I continue to follow, expertise comes from being the student always. Like, it's not from, like, suddenly being the master or the person who does this thing. It's this adaptability. So right now, like, this market is different. And in every fucking industry, I see people telling stories or sharing with me, like, things are different.
Chelsea Abril [:Like, everything that I used to be able to do isn't working. Every I'm doing everything that's tried and true. This is my bread and butter shit, diminished returns, if any returns at all. So what the fuck is happening? And the people who are in that, like, when we start to panic, we just get into tunnel vision. So they're like, oh my god. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working.
Chelsea Abril [:But it should. But it should. But it should. It's they're just saying like, I don't understand. Like, the next step, if you are there and if you're like, yeah, bitch. Tell me more. Like, this is what I'm experiencing. Tell me more.
Chelsea Abril [:What do I do? The nice thing is to just take a step and go talk to your audience. Like, go what is it? A checkup from the neck up? Like, go put your ego, put it on the table, say thank you for trying. I'm doing my best even though what I'm doing is not working. So what can I try that's new? If you are a person like, I'm a multi passionate creative, but I solve problems for people. What fucking problems am I solving? And when you go and ask, like, do polls on Instagram. Like, you you can, do a type form or, like, do a Google Sheets or whatever. Like, go pull your your favorite clients, like, your Rave clients, but just get, reading, like, a temp check on what is actually happening instead of just guessing. So often, like, when people are overthinking, like, what I'm overthinking, what my clients are overthinking.
Chelsea Abril [:I know for me, I get into a vacuum, and I'm just like, and it's just TV static. Every idea I've ever had and every reason it could work or couldn't work is just in here, and I'm just staring at my screen not doing anything versus leaning on data. What does the data say? Like, have you asked? Do you know? And in this, like, vacuum, in this TV static of overwhelm, most often I see people only relying on their own information and not even their own intuition. That's locked. That's gone. We're so overwhelmed that it's just like, what is the information I know, and what can I possibly do to fix this? People are scared to say that they don't know how to fix it. Like, especially people who've been experts and been at the top of their like, I don't wanna look like I don't know what I'm doing. I don't wanna say that I only have 3 clients.
Chelsea Abril [:I'm supposed to have 15. I don't wanna say I have 2 seats in my retreat. I there's fucking 8. Like, oh my god. Instead of just being like, great. That's not working. Cool. Why is networking? What are you guys looking for? What are you struggling with? And if we dumb it down all the way to the basics, our ego says, I don't wanna look stupid.
Chelsea Abril [:I don't wanna look like I don't know what I'm doing. Because if I don't know what I'm doing, how am I supposed to sell these other seats? I'm just like, by the way, I don't know what I'm doing. LOL. Hire me now about it's gonna be a $1,000. But it's the growth mindset that says and, like, I personally, my buying type, I am much more willing to buy from someone who actually wants to solve my problem and isn't just giving me a solution that they think will work because they've typecasted me. I'm like, no. That's not actually my problem. It was maybe in 2020, but it's different now.
Chelsea Abril [:That's not my problem anymore.
Marli Williams [:Yeah. And I think that this point of getting in conversation and connection with your crew, Community connection, relationships, reaching out, you know, and I think that that one on 1 I mean, it's it's such a noisy world out there. And so how do we break through the noise when there's so much coming at people and so much information and so many offers. And I think that people are almost, like, in the decision fatigue that happens for entrepreneurs, but, like, the decision fatigue around being a buyer of, okay, well, if there's all these retreats or there's all these courses, there's all these coaching offer programs, like, fuck it. I'm not gonna do any of it.
Chelsea Abril [:I wanna choose the right one, aka, I don't wanna make a bad decision and waste my money and hire someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Marli Williams [:Right. It's interesting what the stories are because I'm like, well, I feel like people come to me and they're like, Marli, I wanna lead my own retreat, but I've never done it before, and I don't know where to start. And I'm like, cool. I created this thing called the retreat retreat where you get to come on retreat with me and design and launch your own transformational retreat. And here's the other thing is, like, I have peep I have had people reach out saying, I can't come in person. Will you do this virtually? And one of the things that I value is, like, doing this in person. And I and I did this retreat in fall. I invited people to bring a 20 to 30 minute exercise or activity that they would facilitate while at retreat to get feedback from their peers, not necessarily on the content, but on their leadership, their presence, their vibe, their personality, their tone, like, how did it land, and and also getting people confident and comfortable leading interactive activities and giving them feedback on how to do that, not just, like, view content.
Marli Williams [:Right? Because if it's a transformational retreat. So there's a facilitation training element to it. How would I even do that virtually? I know I I could maybe find a way, but one of the things that I value is travel, adventure, fun, play, and, like, being in a big beautiful house in Bend, Oregon, like, that's my vibe with, like, delicious food and being in the same room together and the energy vortex that gets created when you're at night in the hot tub, like, doing hot tub time machine. Right? And I I get that not everyone, whatever, can or wants to take that 5 days away. But I I also know that, well, that's my offering. The one that there's a Williams other online courses that you could do on how to lead a retreat. Tell me if it works. But everybody who came to my retreat retreat is leading their own damn retreat.
Marli Williams [:Britney is leaving on Saturday to go to Puerto Vallarta, getting her 1st international retreat, and she put the deposit down while we were at the retreat retreat in November. She freaking did the thing. Meghan has a full retreat coming up in May. Like, it fucking works. And the second time putting out the retreat retreat for 2 point o, I was like, oh, it's gonna sell out right away. It'll be so easy. And then when it's not, it's like, oh, damn it. And all these people who didn't do who didn't do it in the fall, they're like, tell me when the next one is.
Marli Williams [:And I told them when the next one is. They're like, I can't do that one either. Like
Chelsea Abril [:My my quick question. How many people that came to the first retreat were people in your inner circle?
Marli Williams [:I would say most of them had been following me for a year or more. And one person, I think, I hadn't met in person at all, of the 8. So it was 8 people that time too.
Chelsea Abril [:Cool. That's great data. Most of the people that came to the first one who are willing to take the the 5 day investment, cool. I know enough about her. I trust her. Like, I'm ready. We're gonna cool. Cool.
Chelsea Abril [:Cool. And this is this is, again, you can reject anything. It's like, bucket. No. Only doing these in person. This is the Marli way. Absolutely. Like, keep it.
Chelsea Abril [:But the things that people can explore. So if you feel like Marli and you're like, this is the way I've been doing it, and this is the way I wanna do it, and I see all the reasons why this should be the way, and, like, I could pitch it to the moon. Like, it's in person. Like, there's all that extra magic. This, this, and that. We can also and, again, I say this with with all my love, is we can also come back and look at the values. Like, I wanna have impact, wide impact. I wanna create community and connection.
Chelsea Abril [:So I wanna have these different things. I wanna have abundance. So if we were playing a game, it was like, great. Does your 8 person model support your wide impact, your goals of wide impact, or your values of wide impact? Yes or no? You can go down these lists and see, okay. I love this offer, and I know that it does a thing. And, also, is there, maybe, maybe not, a different way to still facilitate some of the experience? So for people who can't go, like, I love this retreat. I'm a big fan of in person things too. Like, like, there's definitely something in the water when you go to an in person retreat that's so different than doing something online.
Chelsea Abril [:But there is room to say, okay. Cool. Do I want to expand? I'm a multi passionate person. Again, these are all those questions for inquiry. It's the reason I don't wanna do something online is because I I don't believe in myself to be able to facilitate the same impact online. Or do I what else do I believe? Or why do I think that this has to be the way? And they're just questions for inquiries to decide. Oh, well, I could maybe do this part of day 1 as the intro where people could start to build it up or whatever. Right? This is what the the space that I like to hold for my clients who are in this decision fatigue and are feeling like it's kinda like this grab.
Chelsea Abril [:Like, this is what it's supposed to be though. But if what it's supposed to be isn't quite working, like, one, there's a 1,000 different ways to solve that problem. But I also know for multipassionate people is when we're, like, squeezing, there's a lot of energy that goes into holding on to what it should be that we once we can release a little bit and look for a little bit of room, way more solutions come in. Way more way more access to our own creativity, our own magic when we're like, okay. I know that I love this thing. I know I love this first iteration. If I'm not getting the result that I want, what am I willing to explore? What am I willing to try? And even with that, like, have we asked our audience why they're not? Is it just a matter that they that they can't come on the date? Is it the location? Is that the the number of days? Like, maybe it's the 5 day combination. Maybe they're super, super shy.
Chelsea Abril [:All of these different reasons that we could fucking make up until the cows come home unless we just start to, like, pull. Great. Like, when you're looking at a retreat, what are you actually looking for? Is it a matter of time off? Is do you have kids? Like, the stories we can make up in our own vacuum are real creative, and they're real in-depth.
Marli Williams [:Well, the biggest story for me that I think it's me stuck is people don't see the value, aka, I'm not valuable. There's something that I'm not doing or saying that is enough of a reason for someone to be like, oh, yeah. If I wanna put on a retreat, and I've had this dream and desire for years years, and I still haven't done it. And I have all these courses in my little, like, Google folder somewhere that I've never done. And I have all the templates, but I've never sent anything. I need to go in person in real life and, like, do this thing. Yeah. So, like, I think when I create something that feels like an expression of who I am in alignment.
Marli Williams [:You know? And I get that there's other ways of making impact. And, like, this is not the only way. It's it's a way. But I think I do the compare and despair where I see other people putting out a retreat, and then they sell out in 24 hours. And I'm like, what do they have that I don't? Or what are they doing that I don't? That's where I go. And if I did that thing or had that thing or it's like, yeah, people don't trust me enough, or people don't value that I've been leading retreats for the past 20 years and have, like, an in-depth understanding of, like, how to do it. Anyway, it's just it's just interesting. Like, the places that we go.
Chelsea Abril [:And it's very emotional. Like, I wanna acknowledge, like, it is a fucking bummer to get into the compare and despair because it's hard to get out of it. You're just like, oh my god. It must be me. It must be me. And there's a difference between, like, oh, fuck. It must be me if something's wrong with me versus, okay. What is me? Because I'm in my own vacuum.
Chelsea Abril [:What data could I pull from this? If this was just data, what can I extrapolate from this scenario that I am comparing myself to? Okay. Cool. Well, oh, they do email marketing or they do I don't know. Whatever. Right? You can find all the reasons, and then you can say, great. I don't have to do it exactly like them. Again, with the Internet, if you look far and wide enough, there is someone succeeding exactly like you, exactly the way that you're doing it. It's just a matter of being willing to adapt or just try new things.
Chelsea Abril [:So even here, like, oh, cool. It's not working. What could I try? My consulting brain is now thinking of you as I'm like, alright. If someone is like, I wanna run a retreat. I can't go for 5 days. I can't do this. Can I hire you? Can you, as Marley, the the master facilitator, can you create a bespoke option that says, okay. Can you come to me, or can I come to you? Yes? No? Yes? No? Okay.
Chelsea Abril [:Great. No there? Perfect. Maybe I'll beta test a virtual with you. It'll be the same price, but if cost or location or time off is your only thing and you can't travel, great. Let me take a day. Let me take a beat. Let me see if there's something that I could create in alignment with what you're the transformation you're looking for and, you know, you know, what I'm able to realistically offer. So even there's a room of testing there.
Chelsea Abril [:Like, okay. I don't actually know if this will be just as good if I do it virtually. We can't know until we test it. So maybe there's a person they're like, let me test it one day. Let me test it 2 day. Let me test it 3 day. It'll be the same price. And that's that's what the what I love too.
Chelsea Abril [:Like, is more often than not, we are telling ourself a story, and we're fucking living in it. My favorite thing is just to be gentle with yourself. Like, it is scary, and it it's a big bad world out there for entrepreneurs. And and we sandwich that discomfort with with with a little bit of joy, a little bit of play. What if I could just play with this? What if I could stow maybe I don't make all of the money that I need to, but what I could play with this and I could get the testing, if I could get the information? What if I could just talk to my audience, like people, and let them give me their own true and honest and empowered answers because they are all honest and empowered people?
Marli Williams [:One of the the mantras that I offer as we wrap for today is just that it's permission and a reminder to myself that everything is just a giant experiment. And there's nothing wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you. And it's like and I know that just like outsourcing my knowing, I need to insource my own sense of worth and value of, like, I know the value in this experience, and I know that this is the thing that I wanna offer. And I know that it it works. I also need to believe in that even if at times I'm not seeing, like, the immediate again and say gratification results. It's like, okay. It's like data.
Marli Williams [:I've sent one email. But I'm like, but it's my cover page on my Facebook profile. Everyone has seen it. You know? As we as we wrap for today, this conversation around how to be successful in the world as a multi passionate person, entrepreneur who has lots of different interests? What would you what would you wanna leave them with? And then where can people find you and learn more about your incredible work in the world?
Chelsea Abril [:I am a big believer, and this is my own thing that I just have to remember. I get in my own vacuums of, like, telling my own stories and, like, digging my own trenches and be like, I live here now. But I don't think that any of us, especially especially multifashioned people, especially people who think differently than others like, we're not meant to solve our own problems by ourselves. There's a lot of room to do it, and we can be we can be islands, but, like, we aren't islands. So even finding other people who like, finding the community and finding the connection and fostering the relationships that matter to you, let them fit into your life in a way that makes sense to you. You decide. Again, there's no one particular flavor that this ice cream sundae of your life has to be. You build it.
Chelsea Abril [:You decide what goes on it. We're not meant to solve these problems on our own, and we cause ourselves so much unnecessary heartache, forcing ourselves to do it alone, living the lie that, like, well, I shouldn't be able to do this by myself. So reach out to your people for help. Like, if hiring a coach like Marli or I sounds like a cool thing for you, go inquire with us. Tell us the problems that you're having, and we can tell you if there's a way where we can solve them. Like, we wanna know what's going on. We we want to be supportive. We want to help.
Chelsea Abril [:I have my own coach. Listen. I am not raw doggy this on my own. This is not. No. I am being supported. Okay? That is my favorite thing is to be supported. But there's no right way.
Chelsea Abril [:There's nothing wrong with you. It's not a performance. We're just fucking around and finding out. It's not that serious. Let it be an exploration, and I fucking bet I would double down. I'll put my money on it that once you lean into your own honesty, speak from, you know, speak from your magic maybe a little bit after the mass is happening or maybe during it, but people vibe with your honesty, especially now. The people that I see is like, I am having a hard time. I it is different.
Chelsea Abril [:I am adjusting. It's a different story. I'm like, everything's fine, and there are 4 spots left. And you should join my 4 spots, and I'm not gonna ask you any questions because I know that I have a solution. Just be a human being with your people. Like, people want human connection. Be who you are. The right people will find you.
Chelsea Abril [:The you'll solve the right problems, but be a human speaking to humans, and we can just level the playing field and all fucking rise together. We're not islands. Like, let's just do it together. Also, I'm on the Internet everywhere. It's only my name. Chelsea Abril everywhere.
Marli Williams [:And I think it's so important to find the type of support, friends, coaches, mentors, community, people that can see the greatness in you, support you, love on you, help you move through challenges. And, yeah, I think it's just so important that you don't have to do this alone.
Chelsea Abril [:You don't have to have it all figured out either. I think that's I always that was my one lie. I'm like, once I have it all figured out, then I'll really just go to the moon. No. The point is that we don't see have it all figured out. And that's the cool thing. Like, we can ask questions and have, like, empathetic inquiry with people and fucking vibe, and it'll all work out. Vibes.
Chelsea Abril [:Vibes. Vibes.
Marli Williams [:Vibes. Vibes. Vibes.
Chelsea Abril [:Vibes. Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun. I love finding my people. I love getting to speak to people. We get it. We get it. We're vibing.
Chelsea Abril [:We understand. This is a huge conversation too. So if you guys wanna find us on the Internet, come DM us, come be our friend. Like, this is a huge conversation, and I'm sure we would both love to continue it with you.
Marli Williams [:100%. Well, thank you so much for being here, for sharing your heart, your love, your vibes, your energy with the people today. And to those of you out there listening, again, you don't have to have it all figured out. You're on your way. You're doing your thing, and we got you. Until next time. Take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast.
Marli Williams [:We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.
