Shownotes
Today, we’re diving into the world of children's literature with the amazing Kate Sally Palmer. She’s gone from being a political cartoonist to crafting delightful stories for kids, all while weaving in the rich history of South Carolina. We’ll chat about her favorite childhood books and how they inspire her work, plus some of the fun illustrations that make her stories pop! You know, reading with our kids can be such a magical time, and Kate’s books are all about creating those cozy moments. So grab a cup of coffee or tea, kick back, and let's get ready for some laughs and heartwarming tales!
An Orangeburg, South Carolina, native, Kate Salley Palmer graduated from the University of South Carolina with a major in elementary education. She began freelance cartooning with the Greenville News in 1975 and in 1978 she became their first full-time editorial cartoonist. She was syndicated by Field (later News America Syndicate) in 1980. Her syndication ended in 1989, after which she has devoted her efforts to writing and illustrating children’s books.
Her children's books feature South Carolina history in beautifully illustrated and beautifully told stories.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
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Transcripts
Hello.
Speaker A:Hey Boomer listeners.
Speaker A:My name is Wendy Greene, and this is the sixth episode of hey Boomer.
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Speaker A:We love that.
Speaker A:So today, as you saw in the write up, my guest is Kate Sally Palmer, and I'm going to introduce you to her in a moment.
Speaker A:But Kate is going to talk a little bit about her career from political cartoonist to being a writer of children's books.
Speaker A:And so it made me start to think a little bit about the children's books that I read with my kids, and that really brought us enjoyment.
Speaker A:And, and one of my favorite times as a mom was when I would cuddle up with one child under each arm and we would read books together before bedtime.
Speaker A:And I remember one of my son's favorite books was the Little Engine that Could.
Speaker A:And he loved the whole idea of I think I can, I think I can.
Speaker A:And I think he still can.
Speaker A:He's amazing going forward.
Speaker A:My daughter used to love the Junie B. Jones books.
Speaker A:Of course, that was a little bit older time, and she really loved the troubles and the tribulations that Junie B. Joan would get into.
Speaker A:And we, all of us used to love the Shel Silverstein books and the wonderful poems and the wonderful pictures.
Speaker A:And I think one of the things that make Kate's books really stand out are some of the illustrations that you'll see as we go through this story.
Speaker A:And so the illustrations and the lessons all come together to make a platform that the kids can really relate to.
Speaker A:So I'm excited to share this with you, and let me bring Kate on and do a brief introduction.
Speaker B:Hi, Kate.
Speaker B:Hello, Wendy.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:I'm great.
Speaker A:Good to see you.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So Kate, Sally Palmer has mastered the art of teaching children through children's books and colorful illustrations.
Speaker A:And most of what she teaches them about is our history that has happened here in South Carolina.
Speaker A:Kate is a native South Carolinian, born and raised in Orangeburg, South Carolina.
Speaker A: ons at The Greenville News in: Speaker A: And in: Speaker A:In the late 80s, Kate made the switch to picture books for children, combining her love of illustration, her curiosity about South Carolina history, and her love of storytelling.
Speaker A: ks for big publishers, and in: Speaker A:Kate has produced 10 titles for war Branch Press, a reissue of Simon and Schuster's A Gracious Plenty, the Pink House, which you'll hear about.
Speaker A:The Little chairs.
Speaker A:We'll talk about that palmetto symbol of Courage, Francis Marion and the Legend of the Swamp Fox, which her son James illustrated.
Speaker A:Almost Invisible Black Patriots of the American Revolution, the First South Carolinians.
Speaker A:I know Santa very well.
Speaker A: Hasti and: Speaker A:I'm sorry I missed that one.
Speaker A: In: Speaker A:Did I say that right?
Speaker A:This is a story Kate wrote recounting the meeting of a Native American chief, a woman, in South Carolina, with the explorer Hernando De Soto.
Speaker A:Also in 19, Kate finished a graphic novel of Jane Austin's book Pride and Prejudice.
Speaker A:This one has not been published yet.
Speaker A:Yet.
Speaker A: And in: Speaker A:It was a fabulous book.
Speaker A:So, Kate, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker B:Oh, you're welcome.
Speaker B:I'm happy to be here.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Before we get started, can you just tell me how long your family has been in South Carolina?
Speaker B:My family.
Speaker B: Well,: Speaker B:They founded the city of Orangeburg.
Speaker A:They founded it.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:The city of Orangeburg.
Speaker A:So I just think it would be interesting if you could start with just a brief history of your childhood from Orangeburg to political cartoonist, and then we can go from there.
Speaker B:Oh, goodness.
Speaker A:Brief history, right?
Speaker B:Brief history of my whole life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I. I grew up in Orangeburg and went to.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:We lived.
Speaker B:We lived on a farm.
Speaker B:My f. Father was a farm manager for a while, and we lived on a farm, and that was fun until I was about 5, and then we moved into town and.
Speaker B:And went to the elementary schools where I was a little unfocused and remained that way.
Speaker B:And the elementary.
Speaker B:Let's see, the elementary school, high school.
Speaker B:High school.
Speaker B:I was kind of like the school artist.
Speaker B:We didn't have art in our school, elementary school or high school, and.
Speaker B:But I was kind of like the resident artist.
Speaker B:And so I. I did illustrations for the.
Speaker B:For the annual and things like that.
Speaker B:And when I was 14, the State newspaper got in touch with me.
Speaker B:The sports editor wanted to do a column about Frank Howard, and he wanted me to do a caricature of Frank Howard.
Speaker B:I don't know where he got my name or why they, you know, wanted me to do it, but, I mean, they had a perfectly good cartoonist in the state.
Speaker B:Anyway, so I did a picture of Frank Art, and it was published in the state when I was 14.
Speaker B:Went to.
Speaker B:Went to the University of South Carolina, majored in elementary education, because you didn't have to take that.
Speaker B:And so I. I did a cartoon strip for the.
Speaker B:For the newspaper, the school newspaper called Terrible Tom and the Boys.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:Terrible Tom and the Boys were like a gang of superheroes, and they went around solving mysteries and things like that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it was actually the dean of men, the dean of women, and the president of the school.
Speaker B:And I had.
Speaker B:I did their caricatures, but I dressed them as superheroes and capes and tights and things like that.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:It was actually pretty popular.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was on the elevator one night taking this trip to the newspaper office, and a male student was on the.
Speaker B:Was on the elevator with me, and he said, do you.
Speaker B:He said, that's Terrible Tom in the Boys.
Speaker B:And I said, yep.
Speaker B:And he said, do you know the person who does that?
Speaker B:And I said, I am the person who does that.
Speaker B:And he said.
Speaker B:He said, a girl.
Speaker B:And then the elevator doors open and he got off and I, you know, didn't know what to say.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Girl.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know if you knew many, many men who signed their names.
Speaker B:Kate Palmer.
Speaker B:Kate Sally.
Speaker B:Kate Sally.
Speaker B:That was my name then.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's why I have three names I assigned.
Speaker B:My professional name is Kate Sally Palmer because I was raised Kate Sally.
Speaker B:And when I started doing cartoons at the Greenville News, they were controversial, and I didn't think the Palmers should have to shoulder the whole burden of me being in their family.
Speaker B:So I said, the Sallys need to.
Speaker B:Need to step up and share it.
Speaker B:So I put Sally in my name and then, Gosh, I did cartoons for them.
Speaker B:But, yeah, no, that.
Speaker A:So whatever happened to Terrible Tom and the Boys?
Speaker B:Actually, the husband of one of the editors, newspaper editors, preserved.
Speaker B:Preserved it on.
Speaker B:On digitally.
Speaker B:And I still have it oh, it was just horrible.
Speaker B:I mean, it was just terribly drawn.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was the most amateurish thing you've ever seen.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm embarrassed to look at it now.
Speaker B:I really am.
Speaker B:Of course, I'm still embarrassed to look at some of my other work too, but.
Speaker A:But you were obviously good enough at 14 that the state newspaper asked you to do a drawing.
Speaker B:It wasn't a good caricature.
Speaker B:It was just a caricature.
Speaker B:But anyway,.
Speaker A:How did you make the transition from political cartooning to children's storybook writer?
Speaker B:Well, I was.
Speaker B:I was the second woman to join the association of American Editorial Cartoonists.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so I was rocking along at the Greenville News, doing happy.
Speaker B:Well, not.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:It got.
Speaker B:It got harder and harder and.
Speaker B:And so I gave it up and decided that I would try to pursue another avenue to tell stories and draw pictures.
Speaker B:My friends were schoolteachers.
Speaker B:They took me into a children's bookstore, and I was not interested in children's books, or I didn't think I was, but I looked across the store and there was the COVID of a children's book that looked like it had been done by a cartoonist friend of mine.
Speaker B:And I went over there and it wasn't, but it was done by Stephen Gamble, and it was called the Relatives Came.
Speaker B:It was written by Cynthia Ryland, and it was one of the best.
Speaker B:It was one of the best children's books I could have picked up just to.
Speaker B:To learn from.
Speaker B:And I. I read it and I liked it, and I thought, gosh, I would love to do something like this.
Speaker B:And so I. I checked out every single book that I could in the Clemson Library about what makes a good picture book.
Speaker B:And there are.
Speaker B:There were a lot of them.
Speaker B:And so I wrote the House and so let's.
Speaker A:Let me share my screen so you can.
Speaker A:People can start to see some of these pictures.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I have to say, you know, I talked about my.
Speaker A:Some of my favorite books as a.
Speaker A:When I was a mom, but I have to say that as you hear the stories of some of these books, I think you all might find that you have some new favorites.
Speaker A:So the Pink House.
Speaker A:That was your first one?
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:My first one was the Pink House, and I sent pencil drawings of it to out to 10 publishers and got rejected.
Speaker B:And then I sent them out to ten more publishers and, and didn't hear back from two.
Speaker B:So I called.
Speaker B:I called Simon and Schuster.
Speaker B:You're not supposed to do that.
Speaker B:You're not supposed to call them.
Speaker B:But I Called Simon and Schuster and they said they wanted to buy it and so, but they weren't sure of my art.
Speaker B:Nobody's sure of my art.
Speaker B:I'm not sure of my art.
Speaker B:But anyway, they, they wanted me to do another book, illustrate another book before I, before I, I illustrated Pink House for them.
Speaker B:So I illustrated How Many Feet in the Bed by Diane Johnston Ham.
Speaker B:And, and they, they liked it, they liked what I had done.
Speaker B:So they, I, by, while I was illustrate, While I was illustrating that book, I wrote another book, A Gracious Plenty, and they liked that one better because it was, didn't need as much editing.
Speaker B:So I did, I, I, I, I wrote and illustrated A Gracious Plenty for them, which we don't have a picture.
Speaker A:Of, but can you tell us a little bit about the story of the Pink House?
Speaker B:The Pink House?
Speaker B:Yes, it's, it's a story of my family's annual beach trip to Edisto beach.
Speaker B:And my, my sister, my sister's husband's family owns or owned a, a, an old beach house.
Speaker B:And it was painted pink and, and it was like Pepto Bismol pink.
Speaker B:Every, every, yeah, every, every every year I think it got painted again and always pink.
Speaker B:And it was so, it was, it was very big.
Speaker B:It was a big house on the Edisto on Edisto island.
Speaker B:Until they started building these really monster houses.
Speaker B:It was, everybody, you know, we thought it was very roomy, but it turned out to be not so big when you think about all the really big houses they're building now.
Speaker B:And, but anyway, we would go down there and there was enough, there was enough room in the house for everybody to, for, you know, me, my children, my two sisters and my, my niece and my, my brothers in law, my brother, his wife and their three children.
Speaker B:There was enough room for everybody.
Speaker B:And not that everybody got a whole, got a bed to the, to themselves, but that, that didn't matter.
Speaker B:And so we, this, this house is, this, this book is about the, the things that we did at the Pink House.
Speaker A:And, and I think, I don't know if you still go to the Pink House, but I, I look at Sally, your daughter's Facebook and it sounds like y' all still go to the beach.
Speaker A:We do vacations.
Speaker B:Well, we don't go to the Pink House because it's been torn down.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, it was sold and torn down just a couple of years ago.
Speaker B:There's a new, there's a new monster house on that lot right now.
Speaker A:Well, I'm glad that you preserved the story of the Pink House, then I am too.
Speaker B:I am too.
Speaker A:So the next one that we have is the little chairs.
Speaker B:Little chairs, yes.
Speaker B:This is a story that is based on a story that my mother told me about her and my father.
Speaker B:Daddy used to have times when he would sit in a dark corner and be.
Speaker B:And he was not.
Speaker B:And just not talk.
Speaker B:And he would be.
Speaker B:He would be sad.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Mama said that.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:And he wouldn't go to the doctor or anything.
Speaker B:So Mama said that one time she brought him a little wooden chair and she told him she wanted him to paint it.
Speaker B:Well, he picked out the color.
Speaker B:It was brown.
Speaker B:And he painted it.
Speaker B:And he called her to come look at it.
Speaker B:And she said, paint it again.
Speaker B:And so he painted it again.
Speaker B:And so he.
Speaker B:Every time he'd paint it, he'd call her to look at it, and she.
Speaker B:She'd say, it needs another coat.
Speaker B:And she.
Speaker B:Because she'd look at him, and if he wasn't ready to, you know, eat supper or rejoin the family, you know, she would say, paint it again.
Speaker B:And so he painted that chair seven times.
Speaker B:And Mama said he felt a little bit better after he was finished.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In this book, I've got the different chairs are.
Speaker B:They're more colorful.
Speaker B:I've got a yellow chair, a green chair, a red chair, a blue chair.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the father is sad.
Speaker B:And the mother says she was frightened.
Speaker B:And she says, what.
Speaker B:What's making you sad?
Speaker B:Did I do something to make you sad?
Speaker B:Because everybody always thinks it's their fault.
Speaker B:And so he said, no, no, I think I'm making myself sad, and I don't know how to stop it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And she said that she.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:And then it says that the mother wanted to help the daddy whom she loved, but she knew that she hadn't made him sad.
Speaker B:And there was nothing.
Speaker B:She couldn't make him happy again.
Speaker B:But she did want to help him stop sitting in his dark corner with pretty days gone to waste outside.
Speaker B:So she brought him a little chair, the first little chair, and.
Speaker B:And persuaded him to.
Speaker B:To paint it for him.
Speaker B:And so he painted it yellow.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:The color reminded him of.
Speaker B:Of a butterfly.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And gave him.
Speaker B:You know, made him think of happy things.
Speaker B:And then the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The paint was so smooth, and.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:He followed the paint as it went on, and it was bright, and.
Speaker B:And that happened.
Speaker B:And so he called the mama to come look at it.
Speaker B:And she looked at it and she said, paint it again.
Speaker B:And he said, paint it again.
Speaker B:And she said, yes, it needs another coat.
Speaker B:And so he Painted it again.
Speaker B:And then the next day he came in and sat in his little, his.
Speaker B:His dark place again.
Speaker B:And she brought him a little.
Speaker B:Another little chair and told him to.
Speaker B:That she wanted to paint him, to paint this one blue.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:The blue paint reminded him of a distant mountain and a bike he once had.
Speaker B:And so he painted it blue and his eyes followed the paint and it was very smooth and, and, and bright.
Speaker B:And so then he called the mama to come look at it and she said, paint it again.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:And he, he did.
Speaker B:And that happened again with a, A red chair.
Speaker B:And the last one was a little green chair.
Speaker B:And he painted it until it was shining like trees after a storm.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then she said, I think this job is over, almost over, you know.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:In the last picture there, the family is hugging and there's two children in the family, but I don't mention them at all.
Speaker B:You see their pictures, they're.
Speaker B:They're in the illustrations.
Speaker B:But, but you.
Speaker B:They're not part of the, the dynamic between the mother and the father.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But the whole family is hugging at the end.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:It said it was, it was time for supper and he was hungry and.
Speaker B:And then at the end, I've got the little picture of all the little wooden chairs on the, on the porch, you know, and that, that book, this book, Children love this book.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:I get.
Speaker B:It's the only book that I read at schools when I, when I do school talks.
Speaker B:It's the only one that gets spontaneous applause.
Speaker B:They love it.
Speaker A:But, well, hearing you tell it, I get chills.
Speaker A:You know, I, I want this book for myself.
Speaker A:I mean, maybe I'll share it with the kids, but I, I mean, I, it's what, It's a wonderful story because we all have been in those dark places and.
Speaker A:Sure, what a wonderful.
Speaker B:My, My editor at Simon and Schuster, however, didn't want it because she said it was about inexplicable sadness.
Speaker B:And children don't understand that.
Speaker A:Well, they do.
Speaker B:My friend who's a teacher said.
Speaker B:She said children sometimes suffer from it.
Speaker B:Not, you know, and, or if they don't, they have family members who do.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:So, yeah, children do.
Speaker A:We all do.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker A:So then you transitioned from personal stories to stories about more South Carolina history.
Speaker B:The third grade teachers used to approach us at conferences and, and they would say, we need some collateral readings, some supplemental reading for our children to some resources for our children to read about South Carolina Revolutionary War history in South Carolina, because they had to teach Revolutionary War history in South Carolina.
Speaker B:And there were no, there was, there were no resources for them for the children to read.
Speaker B:So I did the research and found out they didn't know I would point to the palmetto trees that were pictured in the pink house and, and children didn't know that it was a palmetto tree and they didn't know what was special about it and everything.
Speaker B:So I realized I didn't know that much either.
Speaker B:So I did like, I had to do a lot of research on it.
Speaker B:And it was a very, it's a very interesting story.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:The British British fleet came to attack the city of Charleston and to capture Charleston for the King of England.
Speaker B:This was a week before the Declaration of Independence was adopted.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:And so the, the, the soldiers of the 2nd Regiment.
Speaker B:Seth, 2nd South Carolina Regiment were in a little fort that they had built.
Speaker B:They had, they had known the ships were coming and they had only a few months to build this fort.
Speaker B:And they built it out of palmetto logs because palmetto trees grow abundantly on South Carolina sea islands.
Speaker B:And they, it was on, it was on Sullivan's island that this, that this fort was built.
Speaker B:And so they have, they built a.
Speaker B:Two walls, two ten foot walls.
Speaker B:And in between they patched.
Speaker B:They, they packed beach sand and marsh mud.
Speaker B:And so they were 10ft tall and 16ft wide, the walls.
Speaker B:And they, they only got three walls made because they ran out of time and they meant to make it enclosed for it.
Speaker B:But they only, but they, the fort had no back wall, but all the walls faced the ocean.
Speaker B:And when the British fleet arrived, they would, they would, they circled around and they, they had, they had 300 guns on those ships.
Speaker B:There were nine British warships and they had 300 guns.
Speaker B:The fort had 31 guns and 400 men inside the fort.
Speaker B:One of them was Francis Marion, the swamp fox.
Speaker B:And so the, they didn't have a lot of gunpowder or anything like that.
Speaker B:And so they, it was, it was a David and Goliath kind of thing, you know.
Speaker B:So the, when the British ships fired the cannonballs at the fort, instead of knocking it down, the cannonball.
Speaker B:Cannonball sank into this soft spongy palmetto logs and got wedged in the beach sand and marsh mud.
Speaker B:And so the, the soldiers inside the fort had time to aim their guns and they, they aimed at the rigging and the masts of the ships to try to disable them because if they couldn't sail, they couldn't move back.
Speaker B:Then they of course, they had no.
Speaker B:They had no motors or anything.
Speaker B:And so if they.
Speaker B:If they couldn't sail, they were dead in the water.
Speaker B:And so at the.
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B:They were pretty badly damaged.
Speaker B:And they finally.
Speaker B:But towards sundown, they left while they could still sail.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:The 2nd Regiment had won the battle.
Speaker B: capture Charleston that year,: Speaker B: They came back in: Speaker B:They went over land, came up from Savannah and captured.
Speaker A:But because of the great protection that the palmetto trees gave, they became our state tree here in South Carolina.
Speaker B:Our state tree.
Speaker B:And every single symbol, our state flag, dates back to that one day.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:The crescent is the same as the crescent that was worn by the 2nd Regiment on the front of their helmets.
Speaker B:They had a crescent on the front of their helmets.
Speaker B:And they wanted to put that.
Speaker B:Colonel Moultrie designed the flag, and he wanted the color to be blue, the same color as the 2nd Regiment uniforms.
Speaker B:And of course, the first flag did not have a palmetto tree on it because they didn't know that the palmetto tree was going to be the hero of the battle.
Speaker B:But the governor of South Carolina, the president, they called him John Rutledge, ordered a seal to be made after the battle.
Speaker B:And on the front of the seal is a palm tree growing out of an oak stump.
Speaker B:And the oak stump represents the British ships, and they were made of oak.
Speaker B:And the palmodo tree represents the fort, of course, and it commemorates the Declaration of Independence and everything.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so on the back of the seal is the state motto.
Speaker B:And the state motto is Dim Spiro Sparrow.
Speaker B:And that means, while I breathe, I hope.
Speaker B:And that dates back to the battle as well.
Speaker B:While I breathe, I hope so.
Speaker B:Our state motto, our state tree, our state, our state flag, everything dates back to that, to that one battle.
Speaker A:I don't know if you can see any of these comments, Kate, but Tom Long says.
Speaker A:Do you remember he used your book for his 8th grade special ed students in social studies?
Speaker B:Oh, hey, Tom.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:So that you said Francis Marion, the swamp fox, was in this battle.
Speaker A:So you wrote a book about him.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:My son had just done a.
Speaker B:A documentary for ETV about the swamp fox called Chasing the Swamp Fox.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I knew that the teachers were hungry for reading for the kids in South Carolina Revolutionary War history, so I thought that would be a good thing for me.
Speaker B:Of course, I didn't know anything about Francis Marion or the swamp fox or anything like that, so I had to Do a lot of research for this one.
Speaker B:And I wrote the story and Jim James, my son, illustrated it and he did.
Speaker B:It's all digital.
Speaker B:James is a graphic artist in Atlanta and he.
Speaker B:The whole thing is indigenous, done digitally.
Speaker B:And the, The Swamp Fox was, was born in Berkeley county, little Brazil.
Speaker B:He was very small when he was born.
Speaker B:No bigger than a lobster, his father said.
Speaker B:And, and he, he fought in the French and Indian War, and he, he was made a captain, I think, of the South Carolina, in the South Carolina 2nd Regiment.
Speaker B:And then that's when he was in the, that's when he fought in the fort.
Speaker B:And actually it started out to be called Fort Sullivan, but they changed the name of it to Fort Moultrie because Moultrie, William Moultrie was the, Was, was the commander in the fort.
Speaker A:So how did he get the name the Swamp Fox?
Speaker B:Oh, Bonestra Tarleton, a.
Speaker B:A brutal British colonel, was the commander of a group of soldiers called the Green Dragoons, and they were throughout South Carolina.
Speaker B:They, they wore green jackets and they were dragoons.
Speaker B:They, that is, they rode horses.
Speaker B:They were on, they were on horseback.
Speaker B:And he, the Swamp Fox would, would attack and then run.
Speaker B:He would attack and then run.
Speaker B:And the, the Dragoons chased the Swamp Fox and his men through the swamps for sev.
Speaker B:7 Hours one day and could not, could not find them, could not catch him, couldn't.
Speaker B:They just disappeared.
Speaker B:And, and finally Tarleton said to his men, he said, let's go back and catch the Gamecock.
Speaker B:That was Thomas Sumpter.
Speaker B:He said, as for this old fox, the devil himself couldn't catch him.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And so when he told him that Fox, everybody else started calling him the Swamp Fox.
Speaker A:That's a great.
Speaker A:So many good stories.
Speaker A:We have one more, and this one is a total change from a Revolutionary War.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tell me about this lady of Cofa.
Speaker A:To check, I had to practice that for many days.
Speaker B:Kofa Tcheki.
Speaker B:I know it's really hard.
Speaker B:Well, this is not, it's not a legend because it really happened.
Speaker B:This lady of Copenhage did indeed meet with Hernando de Soto.
Speaker B:I had done a book earlier called the First South Carolinians, which is about the native people of South Carolina.
Speaker B:And so we were kind of familiar with the natives and how they had lived.
Speaker B:And I read this was published by the University of South Carolina Press, and they were insistent that that it be accurate as far as the.
Speaker B:This took place during the Mississippian period, and they built mounds in that, in that era, that period of time, and nobody really knows what they did on top of the mounds or why the mounds were built.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:They did spend years building mounds.
Speaker B:And so there was so much I couldn't know.
Speaker B:We do know that the lady was dressed in white.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She had pearls around her neck.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She put pearls around the neck of Hernando de Soto when he.
Speaker B:When he came.
Speaker B:I read scholarly paper after scholarly paper that they sent me.
Speaker B:And one was about the worldview of the people.
Speaker B:And one of them.
Speaker B:One of the things that they said was that they.
Speaker B:They thought of everything as a person, every living thing as a person.
Speaker B:And the trees were tall people.
Speaker B:So I have this.
Speaker B:I tell the story from the point of view of a river otter.
Speaker B:So he doesn't know any more than I know.
Speaker B:All he knows is he.
Speaker B:He knows the lady and he loves the lady.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He sees Hernando de Soto arrive.
Speaker B:He hears.
Speaker B:He hears the interpreter telling.
Speaker B:Talking with.
Speaker B:With the people of the.
Speaker B:Of the town.
Speaker B:And so after.
Speaker B:After a while, Hernando de Soto.
Speaker B:Well, they wanted precious metals and gems which the.
Speaker B:The native people did not have in South Carolina.
Speaker B:And they were frustrated.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:So the Spaniards kind of ransacked the village and wore out there welcome because the.
Speaker B:The natives had welcomed them to the.
Speaker B:Into the.
Speaker B:Giving them food and lodging and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker B:So anyway, when they left, they took the lady hostage along with several other people, some men to carry their.
Speaker B:Their.
Speaker B:Their burdens and everything.
Speaker B:And so see, the legend.
Speaker B:The legend is not really a legend.
Speaker B:It actually happened, but there's so little that can be known.
Speaker B:There's three different endings to the story.
Speaker B:I read one that said that she.
Speaker B:She escaped from the.
Speaker B:From.
Speaker B:From Hernando de Soto's army and.
Speaker B:And went back to the village with.
Speaker B:Alone.
Speaker B:One said she came.
Speaker B:One, one, one.
Speaker B:In one ending, she came with a.
Speaker B:She escaped with a woman.
Speaker B:Another.
Speaker B:Another native person.
Speaker B:And another story said that she came back to the village with a man who.
Speaker B:Who she married.
Speaker B:And of course, I just thought the.
Speaker B:The man, you know, she.
Speaker B:That she married was probably that.
Speaker B:I thought that was the best ending.
Speaker A:And so did your river otter.
Speaker B:I'm sure Otter was happy and he was happy to see her.
Speaker B:And at the end, she.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:He swims closer to her than.
Speaker B:Than.
Speaker B:Than he's ever swam to her before.
Speaker B:And she puts out her hand and says, hello, Otter.
Speaker A:That's so super creative.
Speaker A:Okay, thank you.
Speaker A:So I'm guessing that people listening to this would like to know where they can get some of these books.
Speaker A:So I'm going to show your website.
Speaker B:Oh, good.
Speaker B:Mortals Dot com.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So any of the books can be ordered there.
Speaker A:Also on Amazon.
Speaker A:And my cat's on the table.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:She wants to be part of this story, too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we talked the other day and.
Speaker A:Well, first of all, I think.
Speaker A:I don't know if you saw some of the comments.
Speaker A:Can you see them?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So some of the people like that, you know Tiffany Joy Herron, she says, I'm so amazed by you.
Speaker A:It's so great to see you and hear your voice.
Speaker B:Oh, so.
Speaker B:So I'm glad.
Speaker B:Glad to know that Tiffany's here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Melinda Brown Long go away.
Speaker B:Oh, hey, Melinda.
Speaker A:She says she loves a gracious plenty.
Speaker A:She loves the stories that you're telling today.
Speaker A:People that you don't know are also commenting and saying, oh, I wish I had grandchildren to share these books with.
Speaker A:They're loving this history.
Speaker A:So everybody has really enjoyed this.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:One of the things that we talked about when we talked the other day was a takeaway from this, and I'm wondering if you can give us a takeaway of this wonderful journey that you've been on.
Speaker B:I usually tell the children.
Speaker B:A lot of times, the children say that they want to.
Speaker B:When I visit schools, they say they want to be an author, an artist or whatever.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I tell them to practice a little bit every single day.
Speaker B:Write something every day or do some art every day, and anything you do every day, you'll get better at it.
Speaker B:And I said, if you're not interested in writing or drawing, find something that you do that you love to do, and find a way to be able to do that, and it'll make you happy.
Speaker A:And I think that's what you said when we talked, that, you know, it wasn't hard for you to draw pictures because that's something you always love to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They would.
Speaker B:They would ask me, is it hard to be a writer and an illustrator?
Speaker B:And I say, not for.
Speaker B:No, it's not hard for me because that's like playing for me.
Speaker B:I love to do it.
Speaker B:And, I mean, I would rather do that than anything almost.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But, you know, you just need to find something that that's easy for you to do that you.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That you enjoy doing so much, that it's like playing when you do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like I said to you when we were chatting before you came on, you know, I, as a kid always were like, I want to be Walter Cronkite.
Speaker A:I want to be a broadcaster, you know, and.
Speaker A:And I'm loving this.
Speaker A:So here I am Right.
Speaker B:There you are.
Speaker A:Here I am.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And I am always looking for other wonderful stories.
Speaker A:This has been an absolute joy.
Speaker A:I could sit and listen to you for hours.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If other people have stories that they would like to share on.
Speaker A:Hey, Boomer.
Speaker A: you can email me at heyboomer: Speaker A:I would love to know that.
Speaker A:I also want to tell you about my guest for next Monday, which happens to be Memorial Day.
Speaker A:I'm very excited about this.
Speaker A:His name is Dr. Keith Goose Moncrief, and he is a retired U.S. air Force colonel.
Speaker A:So Goose is his call sign as an aviator when he was in the Air Force.
Speaker A:And there's so many different things that he could talk about, but he wants to talk about an honor, obviously, for Memorial Day.
Speaker A:Honor his, his, his troops and their families.
Speaker A:He was really adamant about telling me that it was not just about the troops.
Speaker A:It's about the families, too.
Speaker A: operation in Saudi Arabia in: Speaker A:So he's going to tell us about that and how that worked and the leadership that it took to pull all of that together.
Speaker A:So I think that's going to be.
Speaker A:He's, he's very passionate about this.
Speaker A:So I think that's going to be a really interesting conversation as well.
Speaker A:So we all have stories to tell, so let's share stories.
Speaker A:And Kate, thank you for your stories.
Speaker A:I'm going to, I'm going to get that book about the chairs.
Speaker A:I love that one.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Thank you all for joining us.
Speaker A:We will see you next week.
