The Rise of the Zoomers. Quiet Quitting And The Cult Of WhatsApp

Richard Bradbury: Uncertainty. It’s the way I approach every encounter with Matt Armitage. Along with fear. Trepidation. And a sharpened trident.

Richard Bradbury: Today I’m uncertain whether we’re talking about quiet quitting or Whatsapp?

Matt Armitage:

• Both. The links will demonstrate themselves in due time.

• What we’re talking about today and we covered in the last episode are trends in employment.

• On the last show we were talking about work in the context of messages and notifications.

• And as usual I ran out the clock before we got to speak about efficiency properly.

• That’s a topic we will come back to btw. Because I think the idea of reaching peak efficiency is really interesting.

• Especially as not just companies, but national economies are now giving more thought to resilience and spare capacity as a way to brace the economy against internal and external shocks.

• But also because of the emergence of tools like Midjourney – I don’t know how many of our listeners have played with it yet.

• It’s an AI text to image generator which produces stunning photorealistic images.

• So we’re getting to this place in the work space where AI isn’t merely assistive.

• It’s starting to replace and displace

Richard Bradbury: Which is why Whatsapp may not be the most interesting place to start…

Matt Armitage:

• I get that. It sounds like the usual suspects of tech.

• Let’s talk about an iPhone. Or Facebook. Or Tesla.

• But this aspect is quite interesting because there are historical parallels.

• So, on the last episode we talked about productivity tools like Slack and ClickUp.

• And how managing them can quickly consume the job.

• With some of the services, or at least the way some companies use them…

• You’re spending as much time generating a boss-level feedback and validation trail as you are doing any work.

• We didn’t talk too much about Whatsapp, which is probably the default network for your business and inter-colleague communications.

Richard Bradbury: Because it’s the space where we see the largest blurring of our work and personal lives?

Matt Armitage:

• Certainly, it’s one of them.

• I get that you may be one of the people who have left WA and gone over to Signal or Telegram or some other alternative.

• I’m just going to keep on using WA but the same things apply to all the clones and alternates.

• I don’t know if companies still block access to the main social media sites – which is pretty pointless now as most of us have phones with virtually limitless data plans.

• But I haven’t heard of companies trying to control access to Whatsapp in the workplace.

• Partly because it’s one of the tools companies use to intrude on our personal lives – you see there is a connection to quiet quitting.

• But we’ll get there later.

• So it’s one of those few areas where you can say to a boss or colleague that you’re replying some whatsapps and they can’t second guess whether it’s work or personal.

• I’m not going to ask you to list any, unless you volunteer to:

o But how many Whatsapp groups do you belong to?

Richard Bradbury: replies

Matt Armitage:

• I think I’ve said on the show before. I’m not really in that many.

• And there are only a couple of non-work ones that are really active.

• But I know lots of people who are in dozens.

• Friends, colleagues, family, neighbours, community.

• And again, it can feel like this enormous task to stay on top of them all.

• There are these historical parallels with Blackberries.

• The idea of being utterly consumed by text and email.

• And I read this interesting piece – I think it was on The Guardian, about having reached peak whatsapp.

• There may be something to that.

• Certainly over the pandemic WhatsApp became this crucial little connector.

• Apps like Zoom, House party, Clubhouse may have had more media attention and fanfare.

• But WhatsApp was a much more low impact way to stay in touch.

• A quick message or Gif. Maybe a longer one on one chat once in a while.

• A way to feel like you were still in the loop when you were locked in an apartment on the 22nd floor.

• And it also became this sales tool – with a lot of stores shut, retail staff were managing their own outreach networks on WA.

• Product demos and tutorials. Exclusive drops.

Richard Bradbury: Most of us are still linked into that same network of groups and communications. So why would you say it’s peaked?

Matt Armitage:

• There’s a difference between peaked and declining.

• Outside of the pandemic, we need those tools less.

• We’re doing other things that may prevent us from spending as much time on those groups.

• But I think companies are interested in reducing their reliance on the platform.

• The security side has been, if not rocked, then challenged by the Pegasus hacking scandals.

• We’re no longer as sure that these communications are safe as we may have assumed.

• At the same time, we’ve seen all these whistle-blower reports and corporate leaks that feature screengrabs of WhatsApp communications.

• So, it may not be the place companies want their employees to be talking.

• WA is great in that it’s free and widely used and distributed.

• But it’s a tool that companies don’t own or control.

• So there are often these grey areas with the platform.

• Should confidential company documents be shared over WA or other IM networks?

• How do companies factor IM platforms into their data retention policies?

• Especially if employees are using personal devices and numbers to communicate.

• When I say peak WA, I don’t mean it’s going away.

• With Blackberry, it went from ubiquity to indifference. But that was as much a hardware shift to smartphones as it was a behavioural one.

• I don’t think we’ll see that with WA – other than this gradual attrition from competing platforms.

• But, post-pandemic, I think we are seeing the usage patterns for the platform changing.

Richard Bradbury: How does this lead us to the idea of quiet quitting?

Matt Armitage:

• Like I said at the start – the trends aren’t necessarily linked.

• At least directly.

• We haven’t really covered the topic of the Great resignation in any detail.

• Partly because I assumed that was being done on the more business focussed shows on BFM.

• But I find quiet quitting fascinating – and perhaps more directly linked to the cultural aspect of the format of this show.

• But before I start overlapping too many concepts without explaining anything.

chers have observed since mid: 2021

• The crux of the concept is that workers fed up with their jobs – perhaps because of wage stagnation, working conditions.

• Promises of promotions that never come. Have left.

• Gone to start up that wilderness trekking company.

• Or decided that working 9-5 in a Walmart is better than chasing dreams dangled by white collar employers.

Richard Bradbury: There was a lot of debate about whether this was real…

Matt Armitage:

• Yeah. I don’t want to get deep into the weeds with this one.

• Like I said, BFM’s podcast archive will hold a lot more information on this subject.

• In a lot of sectors, recruitment levels have bounced back.

• Which suggests that a lot of people were either taking a time out.

• Or quickly discovered that their self-created worktopia was anything but.

• And bought back into the rat race.

• There were other pandemic trends. Such as the enterprising individuals who took on two remote jobs and juggled meetings.

• Let’s face it – most of us are only average at what we do.

• That might be an aptitude thing. It could be effort. There may be other environmental issues.

Richard Bradbury: That’s not something anyone wants to hear…

Matt Armitage:

• Of course not. We all want to be exceptional.

• But as I’ve said before on the show – if we’re all exceptional, then exceptional is the average.

• I’m simultaneously exceptional, average and the worst performer on this show.

• Because there’s no one else to blame but me.

• So, statistically, most of us are average at what we do.

• We have to be. Some enterprising individuals were able to juggle two jobs by slightly under-performing in both.

• That’s the thing about averages. Some people exceeds the average.

• Others fall below it.

• We don’t know how widespread that particular trend became.

• Partly because there are sometimes civil legal implications in having more than one full-time job.

• Certainly you’re in breach of your contract. But it would be hard to track and quantify as most companies and workers wouldn’t want to be linked to the practice.

Richard Bradbury: And you thought quiet quitting was part of the same trend?

Matt Armitage:

• Yes. So the name is a little deceptive.

• I thought quiet quitting was getting on with a new job without quitting from the previous one.

• And simply waiting for your boss or HR to catch up with you and axe you.

• That’s what grabbed my attention.

• But in reality quiet quitting means doing your job. Being average.

• Not attempting to rise above.

• And I don’t know if anyone has been following the media attention of this trend.

• Especially the US business media.

• Which is presenting quiet quitting as some kind of existential threat to capitalism.

• As usual I’m running out the clock, so after the break we’ll look at what the trend mean culturally.

• And whether it is even a trend.

• And why some people hate the idea of people just doing their jobs.

Richard Bradbury: If you’d like Matt to quit quietly, now’s the time to turn that dial. Otherwise, we’ll see you after the break.

BREAK

Richard Bradbury: I’m quiet quitting today. Just questions. No comments.

Matt Armitage:

• You know that was a statement and not a question, right?

• So. Quiet quitting. I watched a really entertaining video clip where Kevin O’Leary, US entrepreneur and featured investor on the reality show Shark Tank.

• Describes quiet quitting as a colossal mistake and even describes it as Un-American.

• Which is weird, because he’s Canadian.

• According to Wikipedia he also has Irish and UAE citizenship.

• So it’s strange for him to accuse other people of a lack of commitment to being American.

• And I saw another one where a pundit on a news network decried the trend because it meant that no one would bring in cupcakes on someone’s birthday.

• So far, so much manufactured news for the cable news cycle, correct?

Richard Bradbury: I don’t answer questions.

Matt Armitage:

• There’s so much joy in this for me.

• Is quiet quitting a thing? Well, the business papers are convinced it is.

• The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg are convinced that it is, if column inches are anything to go by.

• As you’re on a go slow…

• Richard is eating a yogurt and watching a video about a magic overdrive pedal by the way.

• The popularisation of the trend is attributed to a number of root sources.

• A TikTok back in July by a New York engineer called Zaid Khan is one of them.

• I also saw another TikTok – and I’ve since lost in the fug of quick clips.

• Of a young guy on a call with his HR questioning his recent fall in performance.

• And him responding that that was because he was going above and beyond.

• But because of actions by the company he no longer felt obliged to do that.

• His performance hadn’t fallen – he was just doing his job and only that.

Richard Bradbury: Is there any evidence to support that this is a ‘thing’?

Matt Armitage:

• Good to have you back.

• I have watched the same video Richard was watching, and if you’re into guitars,

• It is an incredible overdrive pedal. It can pretty much copy the output of any overdrive ever made.

• Without cloning or copying their circuitry. Just by shaping the tone.

• Message us if you want the name.

• The only hard evidence so far is a Gallup survey on the workplace that’s conducted in the US every year.

• And asks thousands of workers about their commitment to their jobs.

• And it would seem that workers are slightly more disengaged in the latest survey than they were in the previous year.

• Derek Thompson points out in an Atlantic piece called Quiet quitting is a fake trend.

• That engagement rates have risen slightly over the last decade.

higher than at any point from: 2000

• And falls within what any statistician might terms a margin of error.

Richard Bradbury: This show is often described as a marginal error. Is there really anything here for us to discuss?

Matt Armitage:

• That might have put you above your contractually obligated number of words for a show.

• So, you are now officially failing to quiet quit.

• What I’m interested in more is that TikTok side of things.

• But first, we’ve seen countries bringing in legislation to restrict employers from interfering in their staff’s personal lives.

• Preventing them from contacting employees outside working hours, even fining them in some instances, for late night messages.

• Or trying to force them to work outside their designated hours.

• And that varies hugely from country to country.

• Long hours are the norm in some countries. Less so in others.

• I remember a media trip to Australia where I was dropped at the hotel after 5pm.

• Had no idea what the arrangements for the next morning were.

• And no one answered their phones or messages because it was outside working hours.

• They’d all gone off to do Aussie things like surf some snags or barbie some breaks.

Richard Bradbury: Is that something that slowed over the pandemic?

Matt Armitage:

• Certainly with the increase in remote working whose divides have blurred even further.

• Because we were choosing our own hours to an extent.

• Taking a two hour break for lunch, perhaps, and then working into the evening to compensate.

• So, it’s more about the spirit of the legislation in some instances.

• And that was something a lot of people working remotely complained about.

• Not so much in terms of pressure from colleagues or bosses.

• But that there was not enough of a divide between their work and home personas.

• At the same time, as offices have reopened, we’ve found that workers are loath to lose that flexibility.

• And voluntarily return to offices full-time.

• What I’m more interested in is whether we’re seeing a generational shift.

• The pandemic was kind of that cut off point for the cultural dominance of millennials in the workplace.

Richard Bradbury: Is this your rise of the Zoomers moment?

Matt Armitage:

• In a sense. Millennials are approaching middle age.

• The youngest millennials are in their late-ish 20s.

pted that anyone born between: 1997

• So 2019 onwards is where we saw the influx of post college Zoomers into the workforce.

• A little earlier for non-college grads.

• The millennial years have been shaped by that hustle culture.

• The idea that the title is more important than the salary.

• That you’re always looking to progress and jump company and ship.

• That’s very much a startup style mentality translated into the wider workforce.

• You see – there are reasons for covering this on a tech show.

• The idea of working hard now for that big pay off in 3 or 5 years.

• But that brings us back to averages.

Richard Bradbury: Do you think your ability to turn human experiences into statistical irrelevance is truly disturbing?

Matt Armitage:

• I like that you made that a question rather than a statement.

• Your commitment to quiet quitting is appreciated.

• Statistically that big payoff isn’t going to happen.

• It can’t. For the big payoff to happen for some, it has to be absent for even more.

• But that’s the economic idea that we’ve been sold over the last 10 to 15 years.

• Do more. Go above and beyond and you will succeed.

• Increasingly workers are finding that their above and beyond is a recipe for burn out rather than success.

• And the more they contribute, the more their bosses expect.

Richard Bradbury: Which brings us back to this being a trend that managers live in fear of?

Matt Armitage:

• Yes. If the performance of your department is built on unsustainable resources, then you live in fear of the downswing.

• It’s like a Planet Money podcast I listened to this week.

• About the certainty of ordinary people that we’re already in a recession even though.

• The majority of economic indicators point to economies still being relatively robust.

• And they quoted from – guess what – a TikiTok business expert – that this is a vibecession.

• It has the vibe of a recession without the hallmarks, or, so far, the economic impacts.

• And quiet quitting could be the same. The end of a cycle of people pushing themselves above and beyond.

• And getting back to just doing the job they’re paid to do.

Richard Bradbury: Why should that scare employers so much?

Matt Armitage:

• It’s a change in the power dynamics.

• We’re seeing an increasingly activist working culture.

• After decades of decline, we’re seeing more interest in workers collectives and unionisation.

• That’s why I mentioned the hustle culture of the millennials.

• Which is much more focussed on the individual.

• The idea that if I do well, if this thing we’re building succeeds, I will be rewarded.

• So, whether what we’re seeing is a generational shift.

Richard Bradbury: You think zoomers are slackers?

Matt Armitage:

• Look at us. We’ve got a bit of hustle. But there’s a lot more Netflix.

• And there’s a few years between us in age.

• So you’re less connected to that traditional Gen X slacker culture and more to the hustling Millennial culture than I am.

• You’re a lot closer to that generational cusp than I am.

• You’re practically an 80s baby to me.

• It’s not so much that zoomers are slackers.

• We’ve done quite a few shows in the past about this being the first truly digital native generation.

• The first to think of society in terms of different groups of networks.

• Networks of friends. Of family.

• To see their lives through the prism of a WhatsApp group.

• You see – you asked me earlier how quiet quitting and WA were linked.

• And the link is cultural.

Richard Bradbury: So there is a more natural lean towards collectivisation?

Matt Armitage:

• I think that’s a part of it.

• Seeing yourself as a cog in the machine.

• But also perhaps being less concerned about what happens to the machine.

• Or accepting that at some point the machine will be obsolete, so there’s no point doing any more than you have to, to keep it running.

• It’s also interesting because those Zoomers are only starting to flood into the kind of white collar workplaces that the Kevin O’Leary’s of the world are popping veins over.

• We still have another decade to see how working culture morphs under their influence.

• And what kind of battles there are going to be between Gen Y bosses and Zoomer staff.

• The Kevin O’Learys are mostly Gen Xers. So we haven’t really seen how those direct generational workplace battles are going to shape up.

• The individual hustlers versus the collective activists.

• It’s going to be really interesting.

Richard Bradbury: In the meantime, what do we do about quiet quitting?

Matt Armitage:

• Sit back and enjoy the ride, as it’s mostly a boss-level creation anyway.

• I mean, the whole bring cakes to work on your birthday thing.

• That’s cool if you enjoy it. It’s torture when you don’t.

• I’m one of those people who hates the idea of workplace team outings.

• I have never gone on a company trip in my life.

• Not because I don’t like the people I work with.

• But because those events are forced.

• And they’re usually designed with some nebulous team building aim.

• Designed to make you more effective and efficient.

• When really, instead of doing that, you’d rather have a bigger bonus and more time to spend at home.

• When I hang out with the people I work with it’s because I like them and I enjoy their company.

• That to me is much better than some self-imposed mandate for forced jollity.

• Ultimately, it comes back to resilience. Which is what we discussed a couple of shows back.

• Forcing workers to go above and beyond, is ultimately a poor planning decision.

• We’re seeing the benefit of building resilience and spare capacity back into our business models.

• Because it allows you to scale up to face adversity.

• So doing your job isn’t doing your employer a disservice.

• It helps them to plan rationally for unforeseen shocks.

• Or replace them all with AI.

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