Hey pod! Welcome to the third spoiler special in the ¡Presente! Latin Cinematic Heritage Series discussing the film, Zoot Suit (1981).

Luis Valdez adapts his own stage production (the first Latin-American play on Broadway) into this striking film version. Edward James Olmos reprises his role from the stage as “El Pachuco,” the narrator of the film and the conscience of Henry Reyna (Daniel Valdez, also reprising his role). Alternating between past and present and stage and screen, the film tells the story of Henry, arrested for murder the day before he is to report for duty in World War II. Browbeaten by the police, Henry’s case is forced through the system while El Pachuco shows the events leading up to the fatal confrontation. Inspired by the 1942 Sleepy Lagoon murder trial and the 1943 Zoot Suit riots, Valdez’s work explores the lives of Mexican-Americans in a society that would just as soon discard them.

The film is based on the true story of Henry Leydas and the Sleepy Lagoon Murder Trial. PBS SoCal produced a segment, La River’s Hidden History Revealed. It features a group of artists through a grant in East LA about paying homage to the young people who were wrongly thrown in jail for a murder that has yet to be solved and about the resistance and resilience that resides amongst the people in Sleepy Lagoon: https://youtu.be/5qLvXxyNU7M?si=hD3Mfq-LJrCRn-6u

Back on the podcast tonight is Cuban American educator and artist, Jason Barber and Curator of Film Exhibitions at The Dryden Theatre, Jared Case.

During our episode, we also mentioned American Pachuco: The Legend of Luis Valdez. We highly recommend that you watch this film to learn about the incredible director and activist behind the film, Luis Valdez. Many of the terms that we talked about are explained in great detail there and also how Luis got his start. You can watch it via PBS Passport here: https://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/american-pachuco-the-legend-of-luis-valdez/37507/

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more spoiler specials from the ¡Presente! Latin Film Fest with The Addams Family: Family Values, which will be screening at The George Eastman Museum on Thursday, October 15 at 7:30pm. As a reminder, the screenings in this series are free and open to the public.

Mentioned in this episode:

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Common Thread

Check out Common Thread on Lunchador! https://feeds.captivate.fm/common-threads-hardcore/

Hello Pod.

If this is your first time listening and are watching, welcome to Representation in Cinema.

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Luis Valdez adapts his own stage production, the first Latin American play, the first Chicano play on Broadway, into this striking film version.

Edward James Almost, who is a legend recommend or a legend on this here podcast and everywhere, of course, reprises his role from the stage as El Pachucco, the narrator of the film and the conscious of Henry Arena Daniel Valdez Austin, also reprising his role.

Alternating between past and present and stage and screen, the film tells the story of Henry, arrested for the murder the day before he is to report for duty in World War II.

Browbeaten by the police, Henry's case is forced through the system while El Pacheco shows the events leading up to the fatal confrontation.

Back on the podcast tonight is Cuban American educator and artist Jason Barber.

Welcome back, Jason.

Thank you for having me.

And the curator of film exhibitions at the Dryden Theater, Jared Case.

Welcome back, Jared.

Well, thanks for having me.

Absolutely happy to have you both here as always.

Okay, so getting into the discussion about Zoot Suit, I know we've talked about it in a previous episode, of course, paying all the homage to Edward James Alnus as as it should be, but we really wanted to do another deep dive, especially given this iteration of the Presente Latin film series.

So with that being said, what was the motivation between you two?

What were the Conversations.

What did the conversations look like as far as deciding to just screen this specific film?

Jason, you want to start?

It was a pretty easy conversation.

I think, showing this movie.

It's a very unique movie.

It's a fourth wall break in movie that is part play, part movie, part musical, part all these different aspects.

For me, I know I saw this movie several years ago.

I bought it and I saw it on television, on a stream, and I was blown away by it.

I was sitting there like, I've seen other movies by Luis Valdez.

I mean, I am a child of La Bamba, a child of the 80s.

So I had seen, you know, and I. I adored in the 90s, his adaptation, the Cisco Kids with Jimmy Smits.

So, like, I had known of the like, of his movies.

He hasn't made that many movies, so it's pretty much, you know, so I.

The two movies that I adored watching as a kid were, you know, Luis Valdez movies.

And I. I watched this movie and I was just stunned by it.

And it was a movie that was, to me, was the first time I saw the real story of Latino culture and the persecution of Latino culture within American society and also our historical impact.

But also this kind of like, I don't know.

And I mean, when you see Eddie James almost, you know, the pachuco, he's just like, yeah, boom, with that finger.

And it's just like the whole story revolves around him.

And you're in it, and you're part of this narrative, of this real, like, you know, elements, this real life story.

But it's also a musical that if you watch the movie, you're like, oh, I know that actor.

Oh, that actor's in this.

Oh, you know, like, there's this.

These, you know, these aspects of Latin culture that was.

So we don't realize how much of the, like, the 40s culture, when we look back at it, was attributed to Latino culture.

You know, the Zu Su, all these elements.

And it was just saying, no, no, no, this.

This is.

This is the reality.

And like you said, you know, it was one of the first Chicano musicals.

Probably really one of the first, to me, in my book, one of the first real Latin musicals.

Because I don't consider west side Story a Latin musical.

You know, like, I consider it.

It's not.

I think it's.

You have Rita Moreno in it, but I consider it, like, as somebody who grew up watching it and asked my mom, why do people have their skin color painted like that?

And then hearing the stories that Rita said, even about the racism that she experienced on set of that movie.

Yes, she won an amazing Oscar and she justifiably deserved it, but she was.

There's only.

There's only two actors in that whole movie that are Latino.

We forget that, like, one was the background dance and the other one was Rita Moreno.

Everyone else is pretended, you know, so it's not Hispanic musical, you know, like.

And I think, like, this is the first one in many ways that was like, hey, look at this.

This is our culture.

This is our history.

You know, we wouldn't have, you know, in the Heights.

We wouldn't have Hamilton.

We wouldn't have all these musicals that Lin Manuel.

We wouldn't even have actors like John Leguizamos, Mamba Mouth.

We wouldn't have these stories, you know, like, all the stuff that he's done on Broadway that wouldn't exist, the stories wouldn't exist without this musical.

And to me, this.

Oh, it's all west side Story.

No, I think Zoot Suit has so much like a more important role to play in that narrative.

Would you.

Before I get to you, Jared, would you say Jason.

So the film.

You don't recognize the film west side Story as.

As, you know, Latino story.

However, what about the.

I think it was.

There was a reprisal.

Is it that the word.

Yeah.

The Lin Manuel version of the musical was a lot better.

And what Spielberg did is implement more of the.

The.

The.

And, you know, that that was better because he hired Hispanic actors.

The Spielberg version is a far.

It.

To me, it's.

Yes, the original version is top tier.

Some of the best, greatest dance scenes in film history are in the original version.

But I think Spielberg did a really good job and Tony Kushner did a very good job at telling an honest narrative of Hispanic culture as Puerto Rican culture.

Like, it's far more like narrative, like, true.

About what Puerto Rican culture was in that neighborhood at that time.

And then the original movie did.

But they mean the original movie is the original movie.

It's.

Oh, no.

Even my own mother loves west side Story.

But even my own mother would.

You know, as a Cuban goes, it's Brown face.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's like, we all know Natalie Wood ain't a Puerto Rican.

No.

Yeah, for sure.

No.

And actually, I wasn't even talking about the film.

Sorry.

But I. I appreciate that, though, from you.

I was talking about the.

When it came back to Broadway.

Yeah.

That.

That When Lin Manuel helped with, like, the Spanish translation.

I Believe he helped with the Spanish translations on that.

Gotcha.

Because he had just done in the Heights.

Okay.

Well before this is like in between it.

The Heights and Hamilton.

Oh, that kind of.

So.

Okay.

Jared, how about you as far as bringing this film?

My experience with this film started back in January with Sundance.

When I'm at a festival, I am looking for things to include in, in all aspects, but, you know, the labor film series or Hispanic Heritage.

And there was a documentary called America Petuco about Luis Valdez that, that covered his career not just in terms of his theater and his cinema, but also his political activism.

And then said, well, this would be perfect for our series.

The film eventually sold to pbs.

So it was kind of like, well, if it's gonna be on tv, do we really want to bring it to the theater and put it in places that people can see it elsewhere?

But there's this great film that's not La Bamba, it's Zoot Suit that people just don't see anymore.

And we can tie this into.

Jason, do you know has this film screened, the documentary?

I think it's screening tonight.

I was screening tonight.

Jason, we already saw this film.

And so you're breaking the timeline again.

This is a spoiler special.

It already, sorry.

American Pachuco is screening on Tuesday.

What date is it today?

The 6th of October.

Sorry about that.

Oh, these weird timetables.

So, yes, the documentary has been.

Yeah, it's screening on pbs.

It's a perfect timing when it screened on Tuesday and then people went to the movie the next night on Wednesday and they saw Zoot Suit.

It tied directly in, which was perfect for our programming to have those two sort of in conversation with each other.

You saw clips of the film in the documentary, but you did.

You get to see experience the entire thing as part of this series.

You will get to experience like Edward James Elmo's narration in both the documentary on pbs, currently on the PBS Passport app, and also in Zuzu, which will be Aaron on Wednesday,.

Which is already.

Aired.

Just, you know, this is hilarious.

You're trying to keep the magic alive.

Like, no, absolutely not.

It's fine.

You know, this is this, this is what we do.

We're.

We're doing our best.

We really are doing our best here moving forward.

Sorry.

So it's all good.

So the film Zoot Suit, it says so much about Chicano culture.

It says so much also too about systemic racism and race based violence towards Latin Americans, specifically Chicanos, with this film.

What are the moments throughout the film that hit Hardest for you.

I'll start with Jason again,.

The stripping of the zoot suit at the end where he comes up, and then at the end just.

Is this Aztec God, you know, like, stripping his nature of.

Of.

Of this idea?

Because people don't realize that in the criminal trial for the zoo suit, for the Sleepy Lagoon, they said because of their Mexican blood, their Aztec astry, they are bloodthirsty Mexicans.

Right.

Which is a similar narrative that our own government calls Mexican Americans their cartels, their bloodthirsty people, you know, like, they're crossing our borders and caravans, you know, so it's.

It's.

It's something that, like, it's so timely.

I mean, it's.

You know, it's 44.

It's 46 years ago when this movie came out over, you know, 48 years ago when the musical came out, like.

And it's still.

It still rings true.

I mean, the stories happen almost 80 years ago, you know, but, like, it's still like, this real cutthroat narrative of how Latinos and, you know, Chicanos.

But, like, all.

I want to argue, almost all Latinos right now in America are being treated in the narrative, you know, like, it's just.

And I think, like, that says a lot, like, the importance of this movie is just that scene.

Also, I just love the scenes where he's arguing with the press and the audience, you know, Like, I just love every fourth wall in this movie.

Like, it's.

It's such a.

It's such a way that you're like, are you in the theater?

Are you in the movie?

Are you in the.

Are you in the real story?

Like, what is this?

Like, it doesn't fit.

Like, some kind of, like, movie narrative.

Because it is a Broadway show.

Yeah.

You know, and it is a real good, like, adaptation of the Broadway show by.

By putting the people in the actors.

But you're, you know, they're putting people in historical costumes and sometimes even newer costumes.

Yeah.

You know, in that.

So it's just like, you know, there's white people that they're being told that, you know, like, it's your fault, you know, and he's.

He, you know, and he goes back and they, like, him and Henry appear behind the press reporter.

Right.

You know, like a magic, you know, like, playing all those images for it.

Like, I love that scene.

I just love anytime Edward James almost.

Even the first scene when he comes in, he cuts through the newspaper, right, with his switchblade.

He's like, you know, and he just Is like, pointing out it.

He has the knife in his hand, like.

Like he's conducting an orchestra.

So, yeah, I mean, he.

I mean, he literally starts the show like everyone's frozen.

Yeah, right.

He comes out, he does his snap, and then everything.

Everything just starts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he uses, like.

I didn't even realize I was just, like, pointing out, like, that he used a switchbaid as, like, an orchestra conductor.

Yeah, he's right.

Boom.

Exactly.

With a switchbade knife.

I didn't even think about that.

I didn't even think about that.

Jared, what are the moments that stick out for you in the film?

Well, as Jason was talking, I was thinking changing my answer a bit, because, honestly, the thing that stuck out to me most was the construct of the film.

I'm always a guy that's interested in seeing different ways to approach filmmaking, especially adaptation.

And since this was a stage adaptation and Valdez, you know, was accustomed to doing things his own way, he had to on the budgets that he was allowed, much like the budget for this film that are like, we're not gonna do an on the street and on location sort of adaptation.

But what he did was he brought the audience into the film because it's not just the story within the play, but it's about that experience having the play on stage.

So the way they go back and forth between studios and the audience and getting the audience reaction and putting it on stage in a way you would see it.

So it's this.

This hybrid of different styles that I find incredibly exciting to.

To see on screen.

Not just the way that he approaches it, but the times that he chooses to be on set, the times that he chooses to be in the theater with the audience.

And I.

Honestly, I think that's the thing that got my juices flowing the most.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

It's.

It's.

It's a very.

It's.

It's.

I. I don't think I've ever seen a film like that before.

Like, I. I don't think I've seen something that kind of, like you said, adapts so many different things.

Like, there are sets, you know, some of it's staged on the stage as if it's a stage musical.

Some of it's in the studio, you know, some of it's out of it.

Some of it's in a live.

You know, you have the audience that is in traditional clothes, you know, so you don't know what time it is, what period it is.

But, like, you know, you're kind of jumping through these aspects and narratives, and it's just beautiful.

It just.

It works for some reason because, like, movie like that could.

Been.

Could have been chaotic.

Yeah, it could.

Like you said, like, kind of bouncing back and forth from that.

Like, some movies don't.

Are not always strong with that.

Like, I think, like, yeah, it was.

Dog Bill was like that, you know, like, it was like half.

You know, like, half staged, half non stage, half, no sets.

And I'm like, it works, but it's not.

It's not, you know.

Yeah, it's very unusual.

I think it speaks to the brilliance of Luis Valdez just being able to tie all of those different elements together.

Right.

Something that is part musical.

It is.

It is.

It's.

It's a play.

It is a movie.

You know, you're.

You're on stage and then you're inside the jail, but then you realize the jail is on stage.

You have an audience that's watching.

We, as the audience are watching this audience watch.

Watching, like, these people on stage.

It's very.

Yeah.

The audience reacting to what's on stage.

Right.

And then you also have the protagonist and the narrator interacting with the audience and with.

On stage.

Yeah.

And with you.

Yeah.

You know, so, like, usually the narrator doesn't do that.

Like, so it's.

The narrator is literally like the voice of God or the voice of the devil or the voice or whatever, you know, like.

And you're.

He's narrating the mind of the main.

The main protagonist, but he's also narrating your thoughts, and he's telling you how to think about this, and you're like, whoa, okay.

Yeah, he's playing a lot of.

El Pachucco, plays a lot of roles.

It's the same.

It's the same person, but he represents so much.

We'll talk a little bit about him just in a moment, because I really want to dive into that character specifically, as well, however.

So we've been talking about or been using this term Chicano a lot.

And so for those who are not familiar.

So this is what I got from the documentary about Luis Valdez.

So I.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but.

So supposedly Chicano comes from.

It's this term that's used specifically for Mexican Americans where the.

The entire thing is Mexic Chicano.

So Mei chano.

Mei chano.

Mei chano.

Okay.

Like.

But also, it was a way that Mexicans could say, oh, you're not really a Mexican.

You're smaller than us, you know, because you live in California.

You know, or you live outside of.

You live in America, you're Chicano.

I mean, and it's also changed in, you know, like, if you're in Texas, you're Te ano, you're not Mexican, you're Tex Mexican, you're Teano, you know, like, so it's just like.

It's.

It's like, you know, there's, you know, Cubans and then there's Cuban Americans, you know, like, we are the others of our culture, you know, which.

But what's so unique about Chicanos and Tejanos is they've been there for 500 years.

Yeah.

You know, Texas was Mexico.

It is Mexico.

So you forget that these.

It's a culture that has a massively long history within America.

You know, it's a culture that is embedded into Native American culture.

It's embedded into black culture.

It's already, you know, like, there were Mexican.

When the African Americans started coming to California, you know, to escape slavery and other aspects were there to.

Were the first community people in their neighborhoods or Mexicans.

But also you had Mexican governors.

You had people who own the streets.

You know, like, you still go down la, and there's the Valdez Highway, Ventura, you know, named after Mexicans.

So, like, in Texas, same thing.

Yeah.

You know, there's, you know, like, there's whole counties named after Mexicans.

Yeah.

You know, like, so we forget that, like, that.

That.

That exists in the narrative.

And I think that's very unique.

He's trying to say, like, we're.

We're here.

And that's what I love about the documentary of Luis Valdez.

He was talking from his activism, the Chicano movement, really.

He was.

In many ways, his plays were the face of the Chicano movement, especially in the 60s.

You know, like how, like how that narrative of our culture, like, was.

He was one of the leading voices.

We know that he was in one of the leading protests that, you know, led to the death of Ruben Salazar.

Yeah.

Who, you know, like, in la.

So he, you know, he.

He's been active, you know, being part of the early movements with Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huertas, you know, so it's, It's.

It's very unique that, like, he is the right director and writer and his brother is Daniel Valdez.

To tell the story of Chicano's impact on culture with Zu Su, you know, like, and then with La Bamba, like, saying, hey, we've been here, man.

Like, look what we've done.

Right.

I think, I think a lot of what you're saying when you started to talk about the cities in, you know, LA are named after, you know, Mexicans.

Like this is, this, that's, that's Mexican culture.

That's, that's.

I started also too thinking about the, you know, we talk about Mexicans and we talk about how a lot of the cities that we know, they're, they're named after like indigenous peoples.

Mexicans being indigenous, Indigenous, right.

To America.

Like I, I, I wanted to also to talk about that because you talk about El Pacheco and the, when he's being stripped, right.

Of his, of his clothes and everything.

And is this Aztec as Aztec, yeah.

Deity, you know, in many ways he is there.

I, I gotta look this up, but I'll probably do it tomorrow.

Talk there is this goes back in Mexican culture.

I remember listening to the commentary on Zusou and Luis Vedas talks about there's stricture in Aztec culture.

God, and that El Pachuco is in many ways the embodiment, you know, of, of this trickster character, this narrator that goes back to this Aztec and Mayan storytelling, this indigenous storytelling of narrative.

And I think that's what's so unique about the movie and what Luis Valdez has done.

He's always focused on the indigenous roots of Mexican culture because, you know, as, you know, he points out, we are, you know, Mexicans are a great example of this.

They are the blood of, you know, the conquered and you know, like the, they have the blood of the conquered and the conqueror and that which is very commonplace within all of Latin America from, you know, all the way down from Argentina, all the way up here, you know, like to, you know, we carry this DNA tissue of Teano or Aztec or Mayan or Inca, you know, we have these indigenous tribes that are in our genetic tissue.

We also have these African American and we have this indigenous roots in our DNA.

But also we're white, you know, from Europe, you know, or German or like Spain or Portugal.

You know, like there's this, there's this, you know, especially in Mexico, you know, you had huge influx of Germans, huge influx of African Americans, influx of all this throughout the centuries that like.

And you have this history of racism within our cultures that labeled each of our, you know, the Mastizos, the Melaros, you know, like that, you know, like that, like try to segment all these cultures, you know, and it's, it's, it's just, you know, narrative that like you see him wrestle with in the story of like, you know, the darker skinned people, the lighter skinned people.

The ones who can go off to war, you know, like, ones who are going to be chosen, you know, like with the sailors coming after them, you know, oh, you're a little dark skinned.

Let's just, you know, we're in a zoo suit.

Boom, we're going to rip it off your body and beat you, you know, so just because you look Mexican, you know, and we're still having that today, people are still saying, you look Mexican.

I'll pull your car over and shoot you.

Right.

So you look Latino.

Sorry, what, what are you apologizing for?

This is, this is what we're talking about, Latino culture.

We're apologizing for stuff.

We're told to apologize.

My gosh, this is me.

It's, it's all good.

So getting into El Pacheco and everything that he represents.

So I wanted to, first and foremost.

So I think you had already answered my question about just who el pachuco means in the film to Chicano culture.

Like, what is.

Because I read somewhere, and like I said, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that it was el pachuco, or they would, they were.

Well, they would refer to the, the, to the, the young people, to the kids who were wearing zoot suits and everything as pachuco.

Yeah.

And so, and so does it is again, I feel like, I feel like el pachuco is a lot of things.

Yeah.

So not only just in the film, but to, to Chicano culture, to Latino culture.

It means other things as well.

So is it like the, is it referring to the style?

Is it referring to the style?

I believe it was referring to the style of the clothes that they wore.

They call them pachucos, you know, like, as we know, like there's that calon, like slang, you know, that was used, you know, by that time, you know, like you learned in the documentary, which I always recommend people watch American Pachuco on pbs.

We will have it in the show notes where you can watch it, you.

Can watch it because it'll give you some of the context of the words, you know, like why these words matter and why, like, even for me, it's a learning curve.

Like, oh, that's what those words mean.

That kind of.

I know some of the slang, you know, raza means race, you know, like, so like when he says, like, you know, like, don't hate your raza more than you love your gringo.

Yes.

You know, like, you hate your race, but you want to, you know, you should be hating the gringo more because, you know, but you want to become the gringo.

Yeah.

You know, which is the common story of all Latin culture right now and forever, even from that time is assimilation, you know, so we're told to self hate our own race, our own identity, our own culture, so we can survive.

Right.

And our schools are not taught Spanish anymore.

They're cutting all Spanish programs.

They're telling our kids to hate their own race, their own language.

You know, and I'm product of that generation that was told not to speak the language.

You know, assimilate, assimilate, assimilate.

Right.

And there are some other quotes that he.

He drops.

El pacheco drops in the film.

I can't do that one.

See?

Yeah, I'm not gonna.

I'm not gonna try that accent.

I like that.

Forget the waters overseas, Carnell.

Yeah, Jared.

Jason's trying to get me canceled.

So let's see.

So let's see.

Forget the war overseas, Car.

Now, there you go.

Listen, I'm not.

Let's.

Okay, do you want to say the other quotes?

Welcome to my world, Jack.

Yes.

Okay.

You know, you know, there was, you know, there was only.

It was only a matter of time.

I was just saying.

I'm just saying.

But yeah, like, all of these, what you're speaking to, especially what it means to be Latin American and being like, kind of like in between.

Right.

These two, you know, it's speaking to, you know, being more loyal to, you know, your.

Your race, to.

Being.

Being more loyal to, you know, Latino people rather than, you know, trying to fit in and, you know, also being more aware of what's going on to your own people.

Right.

And being that rather than like, trying to.

Yeah.

Trying to fit in, trying to, like, assert that you are someone who is patriotic and that you care about this country, when in fact this country is always going to be violent towards you.

Yeah.

I mean, literally, not even 10 years later is up.

There's Operation Wetback.

They sent a bunch of Latinos back Mexico, one of the largest influxes up until recently.

Chicana is being forced back into.

Across the border.

You know, so it's always been.

That they were spraying.

The people worked on the farms outside of LA and Napa Valley and all down, down, down To San Bernardino and, you know, San Quentin.

Like, they were spraying them the same chemical they used in the gas chambers, you know, to cross the border to Mexico over in Tijuana and San Jose.

Like, I mean, people forget that.

That's.

That was.

That was not even like five years before, you know, they were still.

They were probably still doing that right as the war started.

I mean.

I mean.

I mean, after.

After World War II, they hired Nazis, like.

Yeah, yeah, but the space program is different.

My gosh.

Don't even do that.

Don't even he.

Everyone.

He's being facetious.

I'm being facetious.

Spraying.

Spraying people with gas.

Trying to get me canceled.

Trying to get yourself canceled.

I might get myself canceled.

My Lord.

Anyways, so getting to.

Yeah, no, it.

I mean, I think.

I think having a film like this and many, you know, that are screened, you know, as part of this series, you know, especially at the George Eastman Museum, and films that talk about our history, that teach the history, that also point to things that are happening in real life.

I think.

I mean, I think that is also on point with what Luis Valdez was doing in many, if not all of his films, especially.

And also too, like, when he started that, it was the Farm Workers Theater.

When he started that theater, you know, using movies as a form of resistance, of using.

Of using it as mobilization.

Yeah, I think that's so powerful.

I also.

Before I dive even more into that, I also just wanted to do this quick thing and both.

Either of you can let me know what you thought of the cinematography, if there's anything else that you wanted to point out.

I'll ask Jared after I make this one point.

So towards the beginning of the film, I'm, like, watching how.

And I'm usually watching how the camera moves, but at some point there's a. El Pachuco.

He says this line, and I'm probably going to butcher it, but he says this line where he's talking about, you know, you don't deserve it, but they're going to do it to you anyway.

And then the camera moves away from Henry and you know that he's being beaten off screen, but they're not showing the violence towards him, and instead the camera is focusing on.

On El Pachuco.

Did any of you catch that?

And if so, like, what is.

What are your thoughts about that?

Because I thought it was interesting.

I think it's.

I think when I focus on the.

The.

The Alpo Chukwa, it's saying that the godlike character is still, you know, is still being beat, you know, like.

Well, it's the.

It's.

It's.

Towards the beginning.

Yeah, towards the beginning.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, it's showing this character that crosses reality and not reality, you know, but it's still a representation of the people.

And I think that's what he's trying.

I don't know.

That's my view.

It's a representation.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Jer, what do you think?

Yeah,.

For me, that was really about.

Cinema is always so much about empathy, about seeing yourself in the characters on screen and that particular diversion of the camera.

I think Valdez wanted you to identify with the observer.

I want you to put yourself in the place of the observer because you are seeing this.

This.

Even if this is not something you're experiencing directly, you need to be an observer.

You need to see this and recognize that it exists.

So putting that camera near Pachuco's eyes, saying that these are the eyes that you should be using.

These are the eyes that you should be seeing with, and all of this is happening in front of you, whether or not you're experiencing it yourself.

Be aware.

Be an observer of what is going on around you.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gosh.

So this.

This.

I don't.

I don't think this film will.

This film will always be relevant.

There's.

Because there's so much.

This is my.

Sort of been my third time watching the film.

And, like, there's.

There's other things.

There's so many things that I picked up in the film that is just speaking to what happened back then, what's happening now, what's been happening, you know, forever.

And I really do feel this.

This film is very much an education as well as entertaining.

Because, of course, that's, you know, one of the many reasons why we go to the film or where we go to the movies.

You know, it's.

It's entertaining that there's.

There's funny parts for.

But there's a lot of.

There's a lot of.

There's a lot of.

Again, history, current events, also themes, the systemic racism in the court system.

You know, people feeling as though they having.

Having some hope in the criminal justice system and then seeing those dreams dashed and shattered, you know, that's something that very much continues today.

So what I would like to know from the two film nerds that I have with me, what are other films that you would recommend by Luis Valdez?

And then are there any films either of his or others, that you would sort of pair with this film?

I'M going to go first on this one just because there's only one other Luis Valdez film that I've seen.

And of course it's La Bamba.

You know, growing up in the 80s and having that just constantly on the radio, you know, it's.

It's for that summer.

It basically was cinema and the radio.

So to have that and to know that, I think it becomes so much richer when you see Zoot Suit and the history that Richie came from, that this was what he was struggling against in order to make his music and the telling the story of his life, of course, a tragically short life as well.

But I think it becomes richer when you have more of that background.

I wasn't born into it as you were, Jason, and you can speak more to that.

But also I was very interested.

I just found out about Cisco Kid today when I was doing research.

So I'd be more interested in hearing about Jimmy Smith.

Yeah, I can give you.

I have a. I have it on dvd, so I'll.

You borrow it if you want.

Yeah, like, it's.

It's a.

It was like a.

It was like he did something for Turner Classic, for Turner, tbs, you know, CBS made this movie.

But it, it was like a great adaptation of like, here's this famous, you know, TV, like, 40s, 30s serial story of this, like, Mexican star.

And he's like, well, why don't I actually hire Latinos?

You know, so, you know, he has.

Jimmy Smith's a Cisco and he has Cheech Marin, you know, and of course you have the Cisco, what, the 70s war, you know, like war song, which, you know, like.

Like that vibe we sung by Teach Marin, you know, so you have that.

And it was just.

It was just a fun movie.

It was like a.

It was kind of like, like Latino Robin Hood.

Okay.

You know, like.

And he was just like, let's have fun, you know, like, hey, we had these swords.

But like swashbuckling characters.

And the Cisco Kid is a great example of.

It's like a Zorro character, you know, so it's just.

I loved that movie as a kid and I thought it was great.

And he actually appears in the movie, plays like the president of Mexico in the movie.

So, like.

But to kind of go back to what you were saying about other films.

I mean, Louisville does.

Didn't do that many movies.

La Bamba has a huge impact on, I think everyone who grew up in the 80s, 90s, anybody who's Latino.

But I keep thinking of some of the other movies that Edward James almost did around this time, I think the Ballad of Gregario Cortez, which is a very underrated movie.

It's on the Criterion Channel.

And it's movie that, like, if you don't speak Spanish, you don't know what's happening.

But it's also extremely historically accurate.

So much the Smithsonian actually said it's one of the most historically accurate movies made.

And they did a very good job.

It's about the longest manhunt in Texas, Texas Ranger history, you know, and has a weird synth soundtrack which I gotta find somewhere.

But, like.

But it's.

That's like the downside of Moises.

And I was like, it's weird, but that is a great movie.

It's.

Even though it's Robert Smith, who's kind of like a social justice director of the 70s and 60s, he directed it, but almost produced it and really kind of was the backbone of the movie.

And they filmed most of the movie in the actual locations in Texas, the actual jails, the actual, like.

Like villages that he, like, lived in.

Like.

So it was pretty.

It was pretty cool to see that movie.

And then, yeah, I think like, any of Rob.

I think any of his movies early on.

Another great movie is Gregory Nava's movie that came out just a few years after this movie called El Norte.

Like, and it's.

It's a really good story of, like, you know, you know, people from Guatemala coming across the border, the journey to go up north and the price that.

That pays to be America.

And it's a beautiful film.

And Nava would eventually go on to work with Edward James Omos and Selena.

So, like, you know, you have these directors that many ways all would work together.

And there's a nice supportive LA community that, you know, you see with, you know, Robert Smith and.

And, you know, Luis Valdez and Edward, Jim Somos and Gregory Nava.

Like, these directors would.

There was a very, very unique period where Zuzu came out all the way up to La Bamba, that, like, even after La Bamba that, like, there was a real good push for Latin directors and Latin writers, You know, you would eventually.

One of Raul Drew's last movies, the Burning Season, which is about Brazil, you know, and you have other Jim's almost.

You have such a push for Hispanic directors at that time that we don't get that like, that often.

It was such a very unique period.

And really they were all on top of each other.

You know, Bally Occurred has, which is about farmers, which came out a few years before around the same Time as, like, whenever Jesus almost was doing Zeusu, the production, he was in it.

He played a small role in it, but he was one of the producers of it.

You know, you have these movies all the way that laid the track for La Bamba, you know, that laid the track for Selena, for movies that would eventually kind of break the mold.

But, yeah, that.

That period is very fascinating, very rich period.

I mean, Jared and I could go for years just off.

Off of just that period in the 80s of just saying, oh, let's pick that movie.

Let's pick this movie.

Because there's a.

And they're all very good social narratives of.

Of the times to be Latino, you know, in.

In America.

And that even goes to the movie that we showed last year to American Me.

That kind of like, flows into that, that these guys are working with each other.

They all knew each other.

They all were like, bouncing ideas off of each other.

And they still.

I mean, many of them are still.

Almost all of them are still alive.

So they're all still bouncing ideas off each other in their 80s.

So, like, yeah, like, I'm hearing you, like, talk about all of these directors and, you know, them speaking to the times, right?

I'm also thinking of a recent interview that Guillermo del Toro did.

Very recent.

He talks about rage and to be angry and to use rage, you know, in your art.

Is it.

Use it in.

In films.

I'm going to have to also put a link to that in the.

In the store, the show notes, as well as the description on YouTube.

But it was just very, like, straight to the point.

Yeah, yeah, it was very straight to the point.

And I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if there aren't any artists that don't necessarily.

Especially the artists that are speaking to the times, right, where their motivation is not rage.

I'm like, this is why I. I mean, that's.

That's why I make films.

That's why do podcasts, right?

We have fun.

But at the same time, I'm also just like, no, this is part of, like, my, My.

My anger, like in.

In the.

The history, you know, our full history not being talked about, right?

The, you know, the.

The things that have been told to us by, you know, by Hollywood about our own cultures.

You know, so many of the things, too, that, like, don't get talked about, like, or we don't.

That we don't get taught about.

Like in Zoot Suit.

I'm again with this third.

Watching this third time.

It's.

I'M also remembering this conversation El Pachuco is having in the.

In the film.

And he's talking about.

I forget who he's talking to, but he's not only talking about.

It's not just Chicanos who are wearing zoot suits.

It's also Filipinos.

It's also black folks.

Right.

He also mentions Italians and.

Italians and white people.

I mean, you have to realize that, like, the Zeus suit became such an emblematic image.

Like, it's in Looney Tunes cartoons.

The Big Bad Wolf.

We ever seen, like, the cartoons with the.

You know, the wolf's like, he's dressed up, right?

And he's like, oh, you know, like, with that cartoon face.

Like, that's, it's.

It was in such a popular culture.

I mean, and we have the rockstar native, Cap Calloway, you know, who was.

Who popularized the zoo suit, you know, so you have this.

This even connection to here.

Like, you know, like this image that was both in black and Latino culture that crossed this idea that, like, Filipinos and white kids.

I mean, you have a white kid play.

I got the name of the actress in Greece.

Yeah, the movie Greece.

But he's in it, you know, like.

And, you know, like, you have a white guy who's getting arrested with Latinos, you know, like, so it's.

It's this.

It's this, you know, and even in American me, there's a white character that literally grew up, you know, with the gangsters, you know, within that with, like, that's a real life.

All again, real life stories that people who grew up in this poverty in la, you know, like, we forget that, like, the.

You know, like, that's a whole other conversation, you know, like, that shows you how much LA almost wants to erase sometimes.

It's Latin history, you know, has had this long history now.

It, you know, it's been working to fix it, but it's a little late.

You know, they've only had last few years.

Like, they had one Latin.

Like, Mexican American.

Yeah.

You know, like.

So before.

Before we wrap tonight's episode, did y' all want to say anything else about this film?

I'm gonna put it over to Jared.

One of the things I love about watching this film is all of.

And I think Jason touched on this a little bit, but all the familiar faces that are there already there.

If you're a Star Trek fan, seeing Robert Beltran in the audience, there's Chakotay.

Time Daily, audience.

Time Daily.

But.

Yeah, but Time Daily.

Somebody that I would love to get to the Dryden, even for this series.

Tony Plana is in this film as well.

And he's just a classic, classic character actor.

I guess probably most people know him from Ugly Betty, the years he was on there.

But he pops up in everything, and that's a thrill for me to make those connections as well.

Yeah, I remember.

Yeah, I was just like, chakotay.

Chakotay's in the audience and then he's in that weird movie called Eden.

Was it Eden Pop.

No.

Yes.

Or Eden Pablo, I think it's called.

I don't know.

That's a weird movie.

It's about cannibalism.

Came out collection.

It's called Eden Pablo or Eating Ramon or like something like that.

Eating Raul.

Right.

Eating Raul.

And he's Raul.

He's Rahul on the move.

And I was like, it's Chakotay Voyager.

Oh, my God.

Jason, do you want to send a plug for Shout Out International Plaza?

Well, we have one more event.

Yes, that's this upcoming Sunday.

Well, after this podcast comes out.

It'll be Sunday.

Yeah, it'll be Sunday.

So that's about it.

And then where the season is done.

So one little event there and then we have the next two films for the Latin film series.

But we'll talk about that in a second when you get to that point.

Yeah, of course.

I mean, that's.

The next thing is.

So Zoot Suit.

This, of course, is after.

This is our spoiler special.

So this is after it's screened at the George Eastman Museum.

So you can find Zoot Suit.

I believe you can rent it on prime for 3.99.

It's also on YouTube.

You can get a Kino.

Really good 4K version on Kino.

I think they have the newer 4K.

I have the four Blu Ray, not 4K.

That's a nice restoration on Blu Ray.

So awesome.

Well, I am going to wrap this episode up.

Is always a pleasure.

We mentioned the other films coming up in the series.

I am getting to that.

Oh, sorry.

I'm doing horrible today.

Stop it.

Thank you, producer Chris.

Okay, so I appreciate you both being on the podcast tonight.

Listeners will have information, of course, about our guests in the show notes or the description below.

Of course, if you're watching on YouTube, wherever you're listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a five star rating and leave a comment and let us know what you think.

Thought about tonight's episode.

You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Threads and all the things.

You can also visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do.

We'll be back with more spoiler specials from the Presented Latin Film Fest with the Addams Family Family Values.

Yeah, I Cannot Wait.

Which will be screening at the Georgia Smith Museum, of course, on Thursday, October 15th at 7:30pm As a reminder, the screenings in the series are free and open to the public.

This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema.

As always, thank you for listening.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador Podcast Network.