Join us for a captivating conversation with Jay, a remarkable individual who has transformed his life after overcoming significant challenges, including addiction and a near-fatal accident at a young age. Jay shares his inspiring journey from being pronounced dead at ten to becoming a successful handyman business owner, emphasizing the importance of resilience and support in recovery. He discusses how his experiences allow him to connect deeply with clients facing their struggles, particularly in the realm of addiction. With a genuine heart, he offers insights on the delicate balance between helping and enabling those in need, showcasing his dedication to making a positive impact in others’ lives. This episode is a testament to the power of second chances, the importance of compassion, and the profound connections we can forge through shared experiences.

Right where you are.

You're sitting in an electrical matrix of.

Energy beyond belief or most human conception.

You'd be surprised to know how much knowledge and communication can be carried on its way.

All right, here we are again for another awesome podcast of making sense of what is it again, Baba Bowie, Navigating digital and print marketing.

All right, cj, I gotta remind.

I don't know what's.

What we're even talking about couple.

This could be old.

Two Old Goats, right?

We could be me and Jeff, who takes care of Jay.

We did an episode called Two Old Goats.

So we're in about the same boat.

But anybody watching, you're in for a great podcast because just a little bit we talked about, this is not going to be boring, that's for sure.

So we're so excited to have Jay come here.

And again, as always, we really appreciate the time.

We know you, how busy you must be running your business.

And you said you do flea markets too, right?

Yeah, I do flea markets on the weekends.

Okay, so Rent a Husband and the Flea.

Anything else you're involved with that you spend a lot of time on or anything?

Shark fishing.

Shark fishing.

Look at that.

See, when you go to shark fishing.

That sounds a little scary, wouldn't you?

Have you ever getting bitten?

No, no.

I got stung by a stingray a couple years ago.

Ooh.

Trip to the hospital.

But never bitten by a shark.

Wow.

Okay.

Knock on wood.

And where do you mostly.

Is there a certain area?

Myrtle beach, the panhandle.

Wherever I feel like going when the time arises.

Wow, that's cool.

Is.

And is there.

What do you do with these sharks?

Do you eat them or a lot of them?

Just get pictures and send them back.

We do keep an occasional black tip.

It has to be a certain size and they're.

They're real good to eat, so once in a while.

That's cool.

What's the biggest one you ever caught?

Shark that I've got pictures.

Probably eight foot and it was off the pier, so it's hard to judge the weight, but it was 250, 300.

Wow.

This is off a pier?

Yeah, off of pier.

Some of them.

I'll show you some pictures afterwards.

Some's off of pier sums off the beach, some's off docks.

That's kind of scary because I go on vacation swimming around.

And here you're catching sharks right where we're swimming.

Sharks are actually in knee deep water.

I've got videos of where they come up and flop out of the water just to chase a fish.

Whoa.

Yeah, they're a lot closer than what people think.

And what's funny, Myrtle beach, one county by itself because of all the tourism, and they don't want people to know.

They do not allow shark fishing in that particular county.

Everywhere else around it, you can, but they.

You know, they.

They want to keep the tourism money coming in.

That sounds like right out of Jaws or something, is that it's getting worse.

Well, it's getting worse.

Something with the ecosystem or.

Wow.

Did you go swimming in there, too?

I used to.

What, so you're not worried about these sharks?

Do they bite swimmers and people?

They.

They've been known to, but since I started shark fishing, I quit swimming in the ocean because of how close they are.

That's.

That's crazy.

I didn't even think to start with this, but, man.

Yeah.

All right, well, we hope nobody's wants to go swimming right after this podcast of the ocean, but that's crazy.

There was one time my kids were in there, and we swear, I don't know if you call it a sweat.

Was the wave coming in.

Right?

And I know my.

We're sitting on the deck or on the beach, and my daughter just started screaming.

And you could.

We had pictures at the time where they are, but you could just see the shadow, like, in.

Of these three large.

We thought maybe they were dolphins, but the.

I went down to the beach the next day, and these people, like.

No, those were sharks.

And now that you're saying this, I'm thinking maybe.

Yeah, it was scary.

I was like, dang.

Wow.

Okay.

That's pretty cool.

Well, speaking of sharks.

No, I'm kidding.

Hey, I don't know if I've even ever showed the money.

The town money saver.

Mailer.

This is.

This is the whole point of us.

Well, that.

The whole point, but a part of us being a big part of us being here, the main point.

And we've been so blessed to have Jay a customer now for how many years?

Jay going on six.

Six years that Jay's been.

And Jeff told me.

I mean, virtually every month.

Right.

You've been advertising with us.

Yeah, so every month.

And here we go.

Rent a husband and repair.

So I don't know if this is coming up, Reagan, but anyway, I gotta imagine you get some funny calls around a husband.

It's just in itself.

I do.

And after being in business 32 years, I got to the point where at night, on the weekends, I just shut the phone off.

You have to.

What's up?

Can you share anything crazy, like someone called Up.

Oh, I mean, I mean numerous times women would just.

Sometimes they had beat around the bush and sometimes they just come out and say, how much is it for an hour of this or an hour of that?

What?

Oh my, oh my.

Sharks.

And now this.

This is.

And the best calls is when the husband's call and say, hey, how much do I have to pay you just to listen to my wife pitch for an hour?

I don't know, there might be a whole business there.

It's like, wow, that's great.

I can find the time.

Now.

Does your.

How long you been married?

You said you got married recently?

Yeah, five years.

Five years.

Awesome.

Does she ever get jealous of the rent a husband?

No, she enjoys the money.

And once in a while, you know, when the crazy calls come in, when the phone is, you know, the normal business hours when the calls come in because some ladies do like to day drink anyways, I will hand her the phone and she'll get a kick out of it.

And so yeah, pick him up.

Give me a thousand dollars an hour.

Make sure to drop him off.

Oh gosh, this is already entertaining.

Well, great.

Well, again, we're so appreciative you running with us and I think you've shared some of it that you know, because what we want to ideally in here we try to talk some about print and digital marketing.

So first I want to knock out.

I don't.

Do you do any digital marketing at all?

I'm not at this point just working on some stuff.

It's just humans are scared of change and it's something that's all new to me.

So I'm taking baby steps.

Oh, I don't blame you.

Well, we're.

We're knee deep in it about four or five years now and it feels like we're still infants.

And you know, at least for me, I'm you know, 60 years old and thankfully we got reg in here and some other people that know this because I'm clueless.

You know, you might appreciate like.

And this relates to this podcast is kind of what we're actually might like this.

So we've talked about this several times that apparently especially the Gen Zers, they're really seeking authenticity and trust, right?

We know how the media, everything, there's just so much garbage out there, so much lies just.

I mean especially AI now who knows what's going on?

And so because it helps me understand because you know, you hear these stories, like these Facebook marketing, for instance, right, where you know, a panda bear doing something gets all the views you could do anything you want for business or ads or to help somebody that doesn't seem to get any interest but some goofy thing.

And my son explained it to me that, you know, people really want to get to know people that like just a little bit.

We've already talked, right.

You're kind of a fun guy character.

You've had a, you know, obviously a lot of stuff in your life.

We're going to talk about some of it.

And so in a way, even though it's in an area I don't understand, it sounds so refreshing that if that's what people want and that's what hopefully we're going to do today, right.

We're going to try to get.

Get the real Jay, the real Bill here a little bit and maybe somebody will be like, hey, I do want to do business with them because they're real.

They're down to earth.

Right.

You know, so.

But.

So hopefully, yeah, Jeff could take you some baby steps and if we can help with that.

So what.

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit then about.

Do you do any other advertising besides this town?

Money Saver is the only advertising I've had to do now, of course, I've got the logo on truck and the yard signs, but I do not spend a dollar anywhere else advertising it.

Just it.

I don't have to.

I mean, I get abundance of calls.

The brochure, the pamphlet is always so, you know, nicely organized.

My ads, professionally done.

I mean, I can't say enough.

Wow.

Well, again, we.

I can't tell much.

We appreciate you.

And then this is the whole point of doing town Money Saver was to really work what we would say, the hyper local businesses, someone just like you, the owner, operator.

This is where you get the most personal satisfaction.

You know, it's one thing to get a big sale.

They're nice for the money, but a lot of times when you're just a commodity, it's not a big deal.

I'm sure you have jobs, hopefully not the ones you talked about.

No, I'm kidding.

But have jobs where you felt like you really helped the customer, you know, like, I'm sure you went in there and somebody was really struggling with some problem they had at home.

You got anything you can think of in terms of like, you know, some.

One of the.

One of the most unique ones.

And this may help somebody.

A fellow called me in and he had to shut his water off for one reason or another.

The bathroom sink, the water just was barely dripping.

And you know, he was expecting someone to Come in and tell him oh my God.

You know, several thousand dollars for new pipes or new plumbing.

And all I did was took a pair of pliers, twisted the little end off, showed him where the screen was full of gunk from the water being shut off, turned back on, cleaned it off, put it back on, water was fine.

And of course he went and got the checkbook and you know, I just shook his hand and said hey, this one's all me.

But that's a good feeling and it may be a helpful hint to somebody.

Yeah, that's perfect.

Exactly.

That's.

I can't imagine.

Yeah.

How many.

You know, it's embarrassing to say one time my electrician come to my house and I thought I had a problem with a light switch and here I had two bulbs that were out.

That's happened before.

The only problem for me was I would have breakfast with a lot of guys and then I got razzed about that for quite some time, you can imagine.

But are you finding too just.

I'm going off on a tangent a little bit but I've just noticed my own family, a lot of people as we age and people are living longer now and it seems like healthcare is like.

I think I heard that Romsey guy say sick care.

Really.

But I've noticed like with some neighbors and some family people just getting some things up in the house helps them get around.

You know, like say you gotta redo a bathroom or something.

Do you run into a fair amount of.

A lot of grab bars for the bathroom and non slip paint for the front porch where normally it'd be slippery if it was raining.

We're doing put.

Putting some of the lot of the sand.

I call them sand pads but the little texture pads that go in the bottom of the tub so they can step in and not slip.

Yeah, yeah.

Doing a lot of it.

I mean that's got to be really rewarding to go into a house and someone's struggling and they don't have much help and yet you can do some things to make it easier for them in their house.

You know, to be honest with you, this day and age, with the way times are anymore, any job I can walk in and walk out and have fixed a problem is rewarding.

It just.

There's so much hatred and greed and craziness.

It just.

It feels good to just to know at least I helped somebody today.

Wow, that's.

That's a beautiful.

I, you know I would reflect.

It's funny because make that point, you know, you see, you hear all this garbage in the news and everything.

And I've reflected off with my wife, you know, we're out at dinner, we're in the public, and I'm like, where is all this stuff?

All I see is kind people having families, you know, I mean, I don't see.

It's like we're.

Something from outside is trying to divide us, I think for sure.

I don't.

I just don't see that people are as the way it's reflected in the media at all.

So you don't run when you go to places.

You.

Most people are very appreciative and.

And kind.

And you're not seeing what we see in the news.

No, most.

Most are.

And I mean, if I hear any kind of sarcasm or anything in their voice on the initial call, I.

That's what I call weeding out.

Not all money is good money.

No, I like that.

Yep.

I remember hearing.

What's that old phrase about the customer's always right and they're.

No, they're not always right.

Sometimes you get.

Yeah, we've had.

That can cost you.

So.

Yeah, Jeff, also, while we're on this, a little bit on our topic.

And I've had this happen before, Jeff, I talked to him a little bit, obviously, before you came, and he said one of the things that you have run, like almost the same offer and which I'm seeing here, $25 or no, $2,500 off a room edition, and then you've got a window cleaning.

Buy one, get one free.

Are these the same offers you run all the time?

We try to keep some on there.

I'll switch them up every three months or so if something's not working or sometimes if I get an abundance of a call and for one reason or another.

Yeah, well, yeah, but we run offers, just sometimes we change them up, you.

Know, because it's funny too, in the.

In the print business.

We'll just talk again a little bit of business now.

And I've noticed when I had customers similar to you, and I like, really like on here, you have all these little check.

You have home, house staging, bathroom remodeling.

You have this whole laundry list of different things.

Do you find a lot of times people don't even really, you know, they don't think what you could actually fix or do.

And then.

So this list kind of helps remind them.

Well, it's funny you said that.

I answer the phone, rent a husband, home repair.

Can I help you?

8 out of 10 calls, they will ask, is this rent a Husband.

So back to your question.

I think the list helps them, but sometimes off my list, I will see they've checked them off and then made their own list on paper.

So, yes, it seems to be working.

So basically, I mean, you'll do almost anything.

In other words, in their house.

Yes.

So they, they kind of get like, like you said, a leaky faucet to put in a room addition on or whatever.

And I know Jeff had made a comment about.

You typically run about the same thing and one time you guys changed something and it did not work as well.

And you went back.

Is that, have you found that, like maybe is it the format that you're doing or something?

I don't know what he's referring to specifically.

Well, we tried to go what I call a little more professional and a little bit more elegant.

And we took from maybe 50 calls a month down to five the couple months that was running.

I, I don't know how else to word it, except we would just.

I think we went too professional and people maybe thought we were too expensive.

Wow.

Yeah.

Isn't that, See, that's what's, that's what's tricky about this.

I mean, I've had ads, I've had ads.

You change the offer and it's a hundred times difference the response.

You know, I, I had a kind of a handyman guy and he was real upset his ad wasn't working.

And I, I tried to work with him and we, and what I had found was I called a we do it all box.

It was very similar to this.

And then what I worked with, when a lady taught me, she did kitchen refacing and she said all the dollars off haven't done as well.

It does best when I give a free, like stainless steel sink or something or a door with a whole house siding or whatever.

So I had this little formula that I would try to apply to companies like yours.

And man, it changed everything.

Right.

So.

And I'm sure this is in digital, right?

It's not just this publication going out.

I mean, it's a lot to do with what's in that ad.

Have you found?

Like I.

It seems typically we focus a lot of energy on the offers.

Now what you just said, it does affect the design of the ad is what kind of gave off an impression.

Do you find any other elements that have really added or taken away from the success of it within the design?

We had a trial and error session once.

If you notice on my ad, it's a 937 number.

It's a phone number from back where I'm from.

And I've had it for probably seven years at least.

And I've got it on T shirts and everything, so I can't change the number.

But what we did do is went and got a local number for the Mansfield and surrounding areas.

And once again, even a local number, I don't know.

We had no calls for those two months.

Retired at.

And I go back to the 937 number and we'll back.

We're back to normal.

Normal.

I just.

Wow, that's.

Yeah, that's counter.

Because we offer what they call call tracking numbers.

I'm sure it's what it was.

And they're pretty handy.

A lot of marketers use them.

You know, you can.

In fact, if you want to run different ads, you can run different numbers in the ads and all that.

And that's mostly what they're used for to give, especially when you're in a service business, a local numbers.

That's.

Wow, I've never heard that.

That's something I learned here today.

What's been some of the.

Now how many crew people you have.

And be, you know, like everybody else.

Before COVID everything was great, but now for the last couple years, I'm down to two full crews and then a licensed electrician, licensed plumber, and then a couple just are starting off.

Guys that just run labor force carrying stuff and running there.

Well, that's still plenty of people you got under you.

Now if you.

I know a lot of people complain about labor, like finding people in that.

Right.

And the wages we got to pay or has that been something that's been a challenge for you or.

I've had to actually knock certain jobs off of our list because we didn't have the proper help.

And one of them mainly being house cleaning.

I had tons of weekly contracts and then just also one time here and there for the last probably two months.

I've had to just not be able to service them people at all because of house cleaners.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's.

That.

We've heard that a lot.

I mean, that's becoming.

And you thought it.

I know it was really bad.

Like you said.

Same for us.

Covid cut my business in half.

I mean, we used to be in a 160 markets at one point now or 90, you know, almost.

So it was pretty devastating, but.

And it's hard for us to even find reps and stuff.

But a lot of our customers, that's what they've complained about, not having enough labor to to get the jobs done.

Yeah.

What.

What's some of the crate.

Just anything for fun.

Like any crazy jobs you had to do out there that someone called other than you already started off with some stuff.

But yeah.

Just here recently we got called.

It actually was a daycare in Ashland.

We got called for a small.

She had a small bees nest and she wanted us to remove it.

I'll make a long story short.

We ended up having to take ceilings out, walls out and floors out upstairs.

The honeycomb alone filled up over five gallon buckets.

It was inside of a floor joists and between the two levels it was 16 inches wide which is what your floor joists are on center.

And it was over 8 foot long.

Completely packed in.

A day in a kid's.

In a daycare in a lady's house that she ran a daycare up.

I got pictures.

I'll show you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was a fun one.

That was just like last month.

So yeah we.

We get called on some.

Anybody get stung?

Oh yes.

Really Hundreds of time.

Two beekeepers come out and said that before we did it and said they didn't want a part of it.

Wow, you got some crazy stories.

Yeah.

It was nasty.

Oh my gosh.

That sounds really.

Yeah.

Think.

And no kids were ever stung there?

No, luckily.

I mean the way it looked.

It just looked like maybe it was something the size of a golf ball but it was up underneath the soffit and it was just a small corner poking down protruding out to made it.

Yeah.

Wow.

Very deceiving.

What a blood well there.

You talk about helping people.

I mean thank God if that thing had ever something happened where the kids were there.

I remember as a kid my sister in her room.

In fact it got to the point where the whatever the drywall it looked like it was moving that there were so many bees.

I don't know exactly compared to that because I was a kid but I remember you could almost poke your finger in there and man it was.

They were.

And I don't.

They chew up.

Do they eat up stuff in the wood or something or the drywall.

They just formed their nest and everything gets saturated with honey.

Could you imagine the mess we had trying to get honey off of wood and things that like the floor.

Joy says we are trying not to get into the expense of having to replace them.

Trying to get honey off something that's been saturated for 20 years.

Google couldn't even give us an answer.

They kept saying don't water in a rag.

So I put a lot of thought to it.

And just food for thought, if you ever have a massive honey spill on wood, I came up with the idea to try thin set, which is material you put on floor before you put tile down.

It's a self level, and we threw it on there a few days in a row, let it set for a week, put more on.

After two weeks, it actually.

It didn't harden like.

Like it normally would, but it dried the honey up to where it could be scraped off, and then we was able to sand the rest of it and it back to normal.

Wow.

Okay.

How many.

So do you run into a lot of cases where you've got to, like, come up with a solution like that?

I mean, there's no.

You just have to.

A lot of times, and I just thank it for the 32 years of experience.

But as far as a thin set on the honey, that was just.

I was.

I was throwing a Hail Mary.

I mean, because if we couldn't come up with something, it would have been several thousand more to start cutting floor joists out to replace them.

Wow.

So, man, these are some good.

I have a feeling we don't have enough time for all the cool stories like that.

What is.

Hang on.

I got a cough here for a second ring.

We can edit stuff out too, right?

So we can do a part two.

Oh, no, no, we're.

If we ever have to.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

No, we'd love to come back, do it again.

Well, no, I'm gonna get into the other stuff now, if you're okay with that, so.

All right, Reagan, get ready.

We'll start back up here.

You don't have to tell me, all right?

You just do it.

Okay, cool.

See, I'm blessed to have smart assistants here.

So, Jay, tell us a little bit.

You know, talking to Jeff ahead of time, right?

You've had a lot of stuff in your life.

I mean, in fact, I'll go back if it's okay.

He said at 10, were you pronounced dead from getting hit by a truck?

Can you tell us a little maybe about your whole background before Rent a Husband, Things that have happened in your life?

Yeah, that what Jeff was referring to.

At 10, I was hit on my bicycle on a major highway.

The car was going estimated 60 miles an hour.

And, yeah, it.

I was in a.

They wanted to take me off life support.

I was that bad.

Head was split open, leg was crushed.

Make a long story short, I was in a coma for a month.

Mom and dad refused to take me off life support.

And a lot of that even.

It only being 54, a lot of that is really starting to affect me as just the bones in the morning ache.

But let's go back to being three when I was so hyper, you know, my mom had no choice.

She had to seek outside help because I was just bouncing off the walls.

And where I'm going with this is I was put on hyperactivity medicine at the age of three.

So where we're going with this is I'm going to talk a little bit about my past life and my past drug addiction.

But whenever I'm given a lead or a testimony, I actually feel that my addiction started about 3 for the simple fact that there was many mornings I would take my medicine and I was just still real hyper and she would have me take it again.

So at a young age I feel one would change you, two would make you feel even better.

So yeah, I feel my addiction start at 3.

It was a long, rough road growing up.

As we said, I was in a coma at 10, at 13, some friends and myself broke into an abandoned house down the road that was for sale.

Some things happened, some damage was done out of a result to this.

When the law got involved, my mother wanted me to go to juvenile detention center.

My father said, no, we'll pay for the damages.

He can work it off.

As a result of that, they got in a fight that day over me.

He took off on his motorcycle and was killed.

So that was, that was a lot to deal with at, you know, at a young age and me seeking ways to change the way I was feeling inside.

No, you know, it's.

Man, there's so much here.

What?

Yeah, that just threw me off because I wanted to go back for a minute to 10.

And the fact that they would not take you off the life support because that in itself seems like a miracle.

I mean, what do you know?

Like what was that a faith based thing?

Was that just their mother feel that.

She mother worked in the nursing field her whole life and she felt if I at least lived, even if I was a vegetable, as they would say, you know, paralyzed, no, whatever, that, you know, she would take care of me.

And I don't know exactly what that was, you know, I don't know.

That was just their feeling and they, they said they didn't even consider it.

Wow, that's powerful.

I see.

I, I don't know how you can't deny God in that equation and, and how, and then thing.

And now you're saying at 13, what happened, man?

Yeah, I'm taking that in right now.

So.

And since we're on.

Starting on this, and I share this with you, before, I lost my oldest son a couple of years ago to a drug overdose.

And, you know, one of the struggles is trying to think, what did I do wrong?

What could we have done differently or better?

Right.

And I can imagine.

I can't imagine at 13.

At 13 that, you know, to think, like, you know, I mean, like, you have to at some point know it's not me that.

Cause this.

Right.

I mean, this is a bigger plan than we're aware of.

And to have that on, you know, as a child, though, how do you even comprehend that you.

So did you feel somehow at that time responsible for your dad or something or.

Yeah, I mean, of course I did.

And then, you know, being young with three younger brothers, I mean, we're boys.

When one of them got mad or didn't get their way, of course they're going to run and say, well, you killed our dad.

So, yeah, I mean, there's.

There was a lot to deal with and process, man.

Yeah, that's.

So how old was your dad then?

He was 39.

Wow.

Yeah.

Very.

Yeah.

Young.

Race.

Race cars, I mean.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Had a big farm, which we was learning, you know, growing up on dirt track racing.

Round track.

Asphalt, yeah.

Oh, asphalt.

Yeah.

I love.

I love going to dirt track racing, son.

Did your mom end up remarrying?

Yeah, down the road she did.

And I've got a very, very awesome stepdad.

Okay.

Yeah, he's cool.

He was, you know, there as much possible.

I mean, court servers, some rebelling with all of us.

Four boys with him when he first came in the picture, but.

So you had three, Is that three boys?

Yep.

Wow.

All.

Yeah.

No wonder she put you on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

She raised three of us by herself for a while.

She.

Yeah, she.

Man.

Yeah.

This is like.

It's hard to even keep going.

You know, this is what happened.

You know, we just had a.

I had a client, asphalt driveway.

And back in February, he called and he was having some anxiety about his Facebook stuff.

We're going over some marketing.

He goes, well, you got to understand, I'm a little out of sorts because my two year old just died two months ago.

And I'm like, what?

And he said, yeah, they were on vacation and he just got left alone and drowned in a pool at like an Airbnb or something.

And I.

I couldn't even.

I was like, jerry, man, I.

None of this Facebook don't.

You know, and you hear that and that's why, I mean, when you tell these stories, things about a beehive or coupon redemption, it puts it all in perspective, right?

I mean, it's not about, you know, that's one thing.

With my son, I, in the little over two years, I, it feels like I try to see in the invisible and the eternal and not the visible in the world.

Right.

Like the things.

Like what we're talking about now is way more important than any of this kind of stuff.

But we're still here.

We got pair bills and live in this world.

So did you find.

Well, go ahead, you're.

I mean, you're just getting started actually.

So let's.

And you know, I wanna, I'm gonna jump real quick and then we'll go back.

But what I want to say is my past plays a purpose today because even in my work with my customers, so many of them are dealing with children in addiction, brothers and sisters in addiction.

So when I'm in their house, if they break that ice and speak first about it, it always gives me the opportunity to say, hey, this is what I went through.

This is, you know, what I can offer you for advice.

And you know, a lot of times they're, they're at the point where they've been going through it so long and I just tell them, hey, it's time for tough love.

You know, you gotta hate the center but not, you know, hate to hate the sin but not to sinner.

But there's a difference between enabling and helping somebody.

And there's a fine line.

So to back up for a little bit, I just, I wanted to throw that in there because like I said, I'm in so many houses daily and you wouldn't believe how many people are dealing with this as we.

Oh yeah, well, we.

If I could, you know, one.

And I don't know what you think about that.

I just had to actually, this past Saturday I'd give a 45 minute talk at a men's retreat about, and basically touched on this a lot in our case.

And I know there's so many different things.

I think mental health was really the main culprit with my son.

You know, we learned that we have bipolar in the family and the mental illness stuff.

And I just think so many of.

So I'm interested to know your take on this because I think it's a struggle sometimes too to discern right where.

Because I'm sure it's not always that.

And then that's part of it, let's say at times.

But I Know, even talking to local sheriff guys, you know, we treat this as a crime, and it's an illness, you know, and that seems to be.

And I also get the impression, whether it's, you know, this trans stuff or guns or so many topics in the news, that the mental health is a way bigger component than these other things.

We're talking about a lot, in my opinion.

Reagan might edit this out, but anyway, so I don't know if you have any thoughts on that as it relates to addiction and drugs and that, yeah.

Mental health is.99 times out of 100, mental health is the underlying culprit.

And as I, you know, was doing my last prison number, I do have three related to drugs and alcohol.

As I was doing my last one, it was, you know, it was 10 years.

So I got in and started tutoring students.

I learned everything I could in the drug and alcohol field.

At the end of that 10 years, I was actually teaching the drugs and alcohol classes in there and earned tons and tons of certificates and certifications.

So, yeah, mental health is the underlying culprit more than not.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's what I think for my son.

It was the way I.

If he could describe.

I think it was that to try to quiet his mind down because his mind was just running so fast, and he was on medication.

But.

And so I.

And because of this, you know, we're trying to find what we can do to help others.

Now.

I, you know, I didn't personally go through it.

My wife has been through alcohol addiction stuff, and in fact, we haven't touched a drink in 10 years.

So it's a big part of our family and our life.

And in fact, our dream is one day to open a gym for recovering addicts in Mansfield.

That's my.

I'm hoping to still do.

We've been looking at buildings and stuff, but we have an event at our house called the Sober Burning man, and it was something Ben brought to the house.

So we've continued to do it.

And it's all recovering addicts, and they have, like, a lead meeting or something.

But I've often told people that to me, to be honest with you, if I could hang out with a group of people, it's those people, you know, like, when I'm.

They're so vulnerable and broke, and yet they're so joyful and beautiful and helping one another, and you just see the joy.

I mean, it's crazy.

For as hard to hear their stories, it makes my story look.

Well, even your story, obviously, right now, is.

Makes my story look small, but I don't know, I love being around that environment.

I love being around those.

And I.

I really feel like in some ways if I.

And I wish I could, I don't know the medical part, they almost feel so much more compassionate and empathetic to the point that it becomes a problem for them.

You know, like I know my wife, my son.

The same way they would pour themselves out for other people, but then it would create a lot of, I think for them, it would put a burden on them to deal with that process or whatever.

So I don't know if that something you've ever seen, but I don't know.

When I'm there, I just feel like the people in that group are so sensitive to other people hurting and being there for them that it's really uplifting.

As recovering addicts, we get sick and tired of hurting and we get to a point that when we do for others, that is one way to make us feel good and get a quick self gratification.

What I have learned from doing that is that you do it for too many people.

You're going to get the wrong people, then they're going to just keep coming back for more and more and more.

Once somebody finds out that somebody is a giver, if they're not in it for the right thing, they will bleed a person dry.

And us as recovering addicts, we want to see good in everybody.

So we'll keep doing, doing, doing until we get to a point where it's like we just want to cut the tide off altogether.

There's no.

That'd be tough going back and repairing it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, we, as recovering addicts, we tend to want to just give, give, give.

Wow.

Yeah, that.

You know that.

Yeah, that'd be.

That'd be really hard.

Especially someone they're hurting that bad.

So what happened?

So, man.

So at 10, you had this, which was way worse.

And I understood it from Jeff now that you said you're in a coma.

And by the way, I don't wanna.

Again, Reagan could decide what he wants edit out.

But I went to a talk one time in the organ, the guy talked about organ donors.

Right.

And so.

And I'm very.

I'm a strong promoter of organ.

Not, I'm not taken away from it.

But in this talk we went to, it was a doctor and he was told to pull the plug on a kid.

And he said, no, I'm not doing it.

And that kid now has grandchildren and a family and everything.

And he said that brain dead, the term even came from the second heart transplant that failed and they had no legal term for it.

So they came up with the term brain dead.

That when you given an organ, you're alive.

I mean, you're not dead at that point.

And it's a challenge.

And so the only reason I bring this up is you sharing that story with your parents, doing that and not to take away from any situation, obviously, because we know the benefits of the organ donor.

So I'm not doing in any way minimize that.

But I could see the challenge and for your mom to not do that.

Right.

Where there's probably a lot of pressure to do it, but I don't know if you have any thoughts or any experience with that at all as far as you know, because that sounds kind of scary.

You get a very easily pulled apart plug.

Right?

Yeah.

And you know, there's times I think back in life and think, you know, I'm so glad she didn't.

Even through the addiction and all the crap I went through, I mean I'm.

Life, life is a blessing and you know, it's up to us what we make of it.

But yeah, as far as experiences, I've had several friends that just couldn't.

Couldn't find the right path.

And you know, we had to make a decision.

Three, three that I'm really, you know, come to mind real quick.

Good friends and yeah, they just.

We had to make the decision, you know, whether or not.

Yeah.

And when, you know, you lay there so long after a drug overdose, you know, they're going to give you about two weeks and they're going.

Or sometimes shorter.

And yeah, you got to make a decision.

Yeah.

Well, and that's just, you know, even with the.

That to me is a tough, you know, like even with my son.

And I've tried to understand this better to do what we can to help others.

And yet you hear of so many like mental health.

Right.

I mean, my gosh, I remember with my daughter, this doctor said there's 33 medications and it's every combination of that.

Right.

So to find the right help and to get a solution is almost like the odds are so against it.

So in making decisions of life and death like that too.

Right.

I mean, how do you.

I mean, how many.

You know, we just gotta do the best we can.

And there is no easy answer or definitive line.

Right.

That you could sit there and say, okay, this is for sure.

You've got to pray and make the call.

What.

So after 13 now and losing your father, what tell us from There maybe a little bit.

What?

Okay.

So after I lost my father, life, you know, took.

Took a little, a little toll.

I had to heal.

Like I said, broken leg on crutches.

After I come out of a coma, I was in the hospital for roughly a month.

I had pins through my leg and one whole side of my rib cage was broke.

So life was rough, healing up for a while.

But then it seems like I just.

After I lost my dad, I just got real defiant.

I ended up probably doing, oh shoot, anywhere from 16 to probably 22 juvenile stents just because I didn't like the way I was feeling.

I wanted to find something better.

And when I found something better, it always, it just turned into me just being unruly at home or getting caught stealing something or just, you know, getting too high or drunk and acting crazy.

And as a juvenile, you know, that's, that's not acceptable.

So there was a lot of stints in and out of juvenile hall.

And then, you know, when, when the adulthood came or actually right before the adulthood came, it got real bad.

And I spent the last two or three years being a juvenile with my grandfather.

He owned an excavating company and that's where I kind of got started in the construction phase.

His was a little bit different, you know, driving heavy equipment and getting stuff ready before houses were to built.

But at 18, it just, you know, it just got real bad with the drugs because it's like I felt nobody could control me.

I looked older than what I was.

I was able to get in bars.

So you know, at 18, when most kids are starting college, you know, I was running around with the crowd that already had one foot in the grade because of drugs and alcohol and a couple more close calls with death.

I was drag racing a motorcycle.

I.

Something happened.

Oh, the guy, the guy next to me was on a nitrous bike and he, he got done and turned in front of me.

I had to lay mine down to keep from hitting him.

That was, that was a real close call.

Another incident with the motorcycle.

The clutch cable broke one night and I had to lay it down in the middle of a four way highway.

And I'm saying this because it's all going to get to the end.

You know, God has kept me around for a reason.

Do I quite know the reason yet?

No, but I'm starting to see it.

I mean just with my past experience just being able to help so many people, it's just, you know, it's rewarding.

And whether it's in the construction in from the jobs that town money saver sends me in on, or whether it's someone that's, you know, going through the struggles of addiction.

You know, life is very rewarding being able to bless other people with the struggles I've been through.

You know, I can't help but be reminded I'm Catholic.

So we have all these saints, of course, and.

And you probably heard of Mother Teresa.

You know, she's pretty famous.

And there was a saint that she was named after called Saint Teresa, the little flower.

And the main charism, let's say, of both of them, was to do small things with great love, you know.

And I can't help but think, as you're saying it, right, I mean, just the simple, the little faucet thing.

I mean, you don't know what effect that has on somebody, right, that have that positive experience and then share it with someone.

That's what we're going to hopefully see one day.

Where did those.

So even if that's it, right, if you don't know the purpose yet, I can't help but think just those small things could be exactly what you're here for and to go.

And I can't imagine the people you're helping, like you said, to go through what they're going through with addiction.

Have you had anybody that shared, like when you talked or counseled or mentored that, you know, they were able to, you know, that was part of their journey to stay sober or anything.

I have to be.

Imagine that'd be a rewarding.

I have had two people that I can.

I still stay in contact with today.

That so far, so good.

And when I get.

When I get to the point where I'm really going to get involved, I mean, I let them know, if you tell me you want it, okay.

But this is my life.

This is something I'm real selfish about.

So either we're going to do it or we're not.

But yes, I have two people.

One's probably, I think, going on a year and the other one a little bit longer now, you know, what they do behind my back, I don't know.

But when I talk to them or see them, they still look good.

And, you know, there's several that the seed has been planted and they stay in contact with me.

We don't go out and hang out because they don't choose to quit using yet.

But I do have to take and look at each person on a separate thing because just like my situation, my addiction started out, as I said, probably when I was three and Let up.

But then as a young adult, you know, I had some pain issues I had to get dealt with.

One of the issues, if we had surgery could paralyze me.

So I was on strong pain medicines at a year early age.

And in the one instance, he.

He took me off of oxycontins after almost a year and a half because I wouldn't have the surgery and the medical board was coming down on him.

So, I mean, you know, it's like I.

I don't feel that the doctors, when it comes to taking you off pain medicine or weaning you down, I don't always think they follow protocol because I knew I wasn't going to walk out his office and be dope sick.

I mean, you know, I started searching for heroin and that's how that addiction started.

It was just, you know, a repercussion of pain medicine.

Wow.

And that's, I mean, that's in the news a lot now, right.

I don't think my son has started that way, but I hear that so often that people, yeah.

Got injured, they got on oxycodone.

One thing I did learn with my son, the one time he OD'd and we went to the hospital, the doctor explained how it's essentially rewiring your brain.

And he.

And it's helped me to understand because Ben at the end was doing really well and then went back to using and it killed him.

And one of the.

But one thing helped me understand, he said, you know, what you have to understand is normal, your normal brain activity.

People, you know, let's say you have a good day at work, things went pretty well.

Your wife greets you nice, whatever.

You have a good feeling, right?

You come on, hey, I have a good feeling.

It's nice, I'm relaxed.

And people in that, they don't.

He said they don't feel that they feel sick, they don't feel good.

And until you can get that chemistry out of their brain, they're just not going to feel.

And it's hard for us, I think, to understand that.

And another thing, while you were talking, I want to ask what you think of this, because I think this is one of the biggest problems and I, you know, especially being a father, I struggle with this.

And I've met people since then that I was able to try to talk more.

I think understanding and honestly that people when they're using are so ashamed of themselves.

And it's one of the big factors, this shame.

And in fact, I just talked to a kid the other Day that his dad was one of our clients and he was struggling and he said, I hate myself.

I look in the mirror and I hate myself.

And what's happening to people around you are telling you you're a piece of crap or telling you, get off this stuff.

What's your problem?

Right?

All this stuff.

And he needs the opposite at this moment.

He needs the love.

He needs to know his dad loves him, which I know he does.

I mean, talking to him.

And I think back with Ben, you know, there was times that I was really getting on him, and I kind of regret it because I realized now if I could understand what was in his head, that's not.

He needed to know somebody loved him and they were with him, not he knew he needed.

In other words, you know, this isn't right, or I'll let you kind of comment on just throwing that out there.

Yeah.

As an addict, when we're.

When we're in it, I don't.

I don't care how heavy we are in it.

We know we are our own worst enemies.

We're harder on ourselves than anybody else is going to be.

But that doesn't say that the people around us don't have a right to voice their opinion.

And because as addicts, we affect everybody we come in contact with.

And if it goes on long enough, it's like a tornado.

We destroy everybody we come in contact with.

So what you were saying, as far as, you know, you regret some stuff now.

I don't think.

I don't think that's a good.

A good thing for you to do.

You shouldn't regret it.

Because here's also how we work as addicts.

If we know we have someone on our side, whether it be a parent, a sibling, whoever, we know, if we got them on our side, then they will eventually start feeling sorry for us.

They will eventually start giving in.

And that's what I was talking earlier in the show.

There's a difference between helping and enabling.

And I've done it with friends since I've been clean.

This May, I was cleaning off heroin over 15 years.

And there's times.

And one of them is dead, or actually two of them is dead now, where after I had got out of prison, I had, you know, several, several years in 11, nine, something like that.

I don't remember exactly, but two people, I went and got dope for them because I felt so bad.

They were that dope sick.

And I remembered what it was like.

And I mean, you know, I.

To this day, I can't believe I did it, but.

Wow.

Yeah.

It just shows the depth how painful this is to, you know, this dad I met, too.

He.

I mean, he was just beside himself, you know, and I.

I could relate.

I know when my son.

I.

You don't know how to fix it.

You want to fix it.

You want to help and.

Yeah, it's a really.

It's a man.

Yeah.

It's just.

It's.

And I think it's like you just said, way more common than we know.

And people.

And no one wants to talk about it because it's embarrassing or especially if it's in your family.

And I know people have lost their kids, and I feel like they don't even want to really talk about it.

You know, something.

In fact, we ended up getting the.

I got the FBI involved, and we got the guy, you know, they sold them the drugs that killed them, arrested.

But, you know, I told the FBI it's not him.

You know, Satan's the enemy.

This guy's.

This guy was just.

In fact, he was getting his foot cut off when they arrest him from diabetes.

Because I heard a lot of times you use.

Your immune systems get weakened.

In fact, people we had at the.

So Bernie, man, they had, you know, limbs missing and stuff from the drug use.

And that's what I saw.

I saw, you know, I could.

I could see my son through my eyes as a father.

And as bad as it is that this guy sold him the drugs that killed him, I kind of see him the same way.

I mean, he's.

You know, I'm.

I don't see him as the enemy.

I saw him as a victim of.

You know, product of his environment.

Yeah.

So now how did.

So I know we're getting pretty heavy down this path, but let's talk how.

So what things.

Transit, what helped you.

And then obviously, you know, you shared before coming to Mansfield with a bag of clothes or whatever.

And I mean, that had.

I'm just imagine.

I can't imagine the courage or the strength that.

To go from what Some of.

Take us through some of what.

Going through all the things you just said and now to be where you are now.

What.

What was there somebody.

Was there something.

What kind of helped in that transition?

It's a.

It's a couple part transition here.

It was my desire to live, for one, my desire to do what God put me on this earth to do, and that's to tell other people about him.

And it was my desire to prove everybody wrong that always stood there and said I couldn't make it so that was the first part to the equation.

The second part is the dear lady that I married, her name is Cindy.

She just retired from Department of Children's Services in November.

So I'll go.

I can go ahead and put this out there.

We met.

We met on a dating site.

And as I said, I had only been out of prison a few years.

I showed up in Mansfield with nothing but a bag of clothes.

I was dropped off.

And this lady.

If you ever met anybody that works for Department of Children's Services, they're a different breed of people.

They have to be to be able to put up with what they put up with day in and day out.

So I was real honest with her in the beginning about my addiction and everything.

And we, you know, we had plans to meet for the weekend and hang out, and this lady just loved me until I learned to love myself.

She was very stern.

She was very hard.

And her job.

When she retired, she was only making $21 an hour.

They start people off at Burger King for more than that now, hypothetically speaking.

But anyways, she.

She was not one.

She didn't have the extra money.

I mean, she bought me cigarettes once in a while, but I.

I just seen the love in her eyes, and I knew how bad I was ready to, you know, go to the top, where I should have been instead of sitting in prison half my life and doing drugs.

So when I seen that I had someone behind me 100% and knew they were behind me, it just wasn't words.

You know, I was.

You know, I was just like.

I was done.

I was.

I was like, there is no turning back.

And when I got out of prison, I had real close to 11 years clean.

So, I mean, you know, heroin was not ever going to be an option again.

But there was always, you know, the little monkeys on your back saying, hey, cocaine won't hurt you.

Going out and getting drunk every night won't hurt you.

You know, go act like a college kid.

But, yeah.

So to answer your question, my desire and my beautiful wife and just, you know, just tired of being sick and tired just to say it.

My.

My wife's name, Cindy, too.

So that's kind of cool.

Wonderful.

She's very much the same way you just described.

I.

I can't help but think many times in prayer and groups, you know, that a lot of times we talk about praying for somebody to come into somebody's life, and that's what it feels like.

You know, you talked about God earlier, and then all of a sudden, Cindy shows Up.

I mean, how was that a coincidence?

Right?

I just can't help but think, you know, like you're saying now how are you?

What's your purpose and what are you doing?

I mean, maybe her meeting you, her purpose.

And look at the chain.

I mean, I just think it's, it's like two plus two equals five, right?

When you see this kind of, when that happens, that's really awesome story.

Yeah, she, you know, she has some health problems.

So it's like, you know, I'm, I'm there for her 100%.

And just to add the icing on the cake, I was in Myrtle Beach a couple years working for the summer.

I was going to try to get us a retirement home together down there.

Well, we had to wait six.

A customer I was helping down there, we had to wait six weeks to go in a house after eviction notice was filed.

So I went in with him and the sheriff that day and the scum of the life people that lived there left a little kitty in there with no water or food other than water dripping out of the faucet and whatever it could find in the trash.

This little thing was in there for six weeks.

They wanted to take it and have it euthanized.

And I don't even know what come upon me that day.

And I said, no, I'll take care of it.

And they just looked at me like it's dead.

Make a long story short, this cat is almost three years old, almost 25 pounds.

Wow.

And just about a year ago, one of Cindy's friends at work found a little kitty in an outside trap.

We had just had to put her other one to sleep after 15 years.

And I'm just going to speed this up.

This little loving thing, her name is Lucy, she's blind.

And if she.

There's not a person inside her body, God strike me dead, this thing acts more human than any human I've ever met.

Wow.

And she's blind.

So between Cindy and my other two little girls, Lola and Lucy, that's my life.

Wow, that's beautiful.

That.

Hate to keep bringing catholic stuff in, but there's a St.

Lucy and her.

She has her eyes.

She was blind and she has her eyes.

So you gotta check it out.

Yeah.

So now you say that that might be a little.

You might want.

Yeah, look it up.

St.

Lou.

Well, to be honest with you, in fact I wear this.

I had a 12 year old niece die.

And before my son and her name was Lucy and that's why we learned a lot about St.

Lucy at the time.

And she just unfortunately she had ill.

I think they found out something was leaking her intestines and she had some stomach pain and just one day, yeah, super tragic, you know.

And that's something maybe you've had, you know, losing Ben, one of the things that it changed my, you know, I've been around people that lost loved ones real close or children, but until you have it happen to you, you just have no idea, you know.

And I, I've always noticed that that was one of the first things I thought of was my brother in law and sister in law that how I did not understand what was going on until we.

We had the same thing happen.

Were your, was your mom or anything or great.

Do you have someone in your life that was in the faith or something that might have had prayers or influence on you or.

No.

Do you just kind of.

I.

And when I went and lived with my grandparents, as I said, when I was younger, we was.

She was pretty heavy in the church.

My step grandmother was so.

But no, what I was going to tell you is when I was doing that 10 years at prison, I earned enough certificates that if I walked in, I could go in with two years as counselor with two years credit behind them.

And then I also earned my associates in biblical studies while I was in there.

Wow.

So it's like I said, it's just God speaking to me and saying, hey, you know, it's time.

Yeah.

It's funny when, when you're broken the most is when it seems like you.

Because you become aware.

Right.

I always love my wife, 7.

She was at the rehab place that the easy way to describe it, you're driving a car and you know, God's in the back.

He's like, I can take you.

No, I got it, I'm good.

And you crash into a tree and you're like, all right, you can take over, you know.

And so you had that moment in a big way.

You know.

Jeff also shared again, you've had, man, you've had a lot of stories.

Tell us the one with the judge with his child when you were.

Okay, so this last incident, it was in Union County, Ohio.

I had racked up enough charges.

I was facing 56 years now.

They was theft charges and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity.

What it was stuff from going out and getting money for jobs and not doing the jobs because my money was going on my dope habit.

Anyways, the judge, I had that Day was Judge Frazier out of Union County.

And during my sentencing he made relevance to the fact that he understood the.

How addiction affects people.

As he was sentencing me that day to 10 years.

His daughter was in rehab in California for trafficking heroin to support her habit.

So, you know, it touches home.

It hits everybody that.

Yeah, that's, that's one of the things I think.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what economic thing where you're from, what kind of.

I mean it just feels.

Yeah.

That it's everywhere out there.

So, you know, I think we'll, we'll, we'll be starting to wrap up a little bit here.

I, I think one thing I'm sensing from this is, and I think you've kind of pointed it out, but when you go through these kind of struggles and I've gone through nowhere near what you've gone through, but what I've gone through, it seems like it makes you so much more sensitive to know what else is out there.

I mean, what are other people going through?

Right.

It's so easy to get caught up in our day to day routine.

Routine.

You know, we had a big problem with a print job right now.

Right.

And I could easily get all hyper focused on, you know, this financial thing and you just once in a moment I gotta stop and real.

You know, and I, and there's all these people involved and I can't help but think, who knows what's going on in their life.

Right.

Each one of these people.

And that's, that's what I find it's about, it's not about the printing error or the paper stock or whatever thing is happening, even though we got to get through it.

And it feels like you're very aware of that the way you just talked about, you know, the people you're working with.

Right.

And if they open up to you.

So do you find yourself getting in a lot of conversations even with customers at times?

That.

Yeah, sometimes.

But like I said, I will always let them break the ice first.

Unless I just.

Unless I know for sure, you know, because of what they're talking or other things.

Unless I know for sure what they're going through.

Exactly.

I'll let them break the ice.

But people that are dealing with other people in addiction are starving for knowledge and outside help.

Yeah.

The average person just, they have no idea what, what's going on.

Well, you know, I think as a, as we kind of wrap up, I like, you know, obviously we talked a lot about addiction and personal things, but I can't help but think it super relates to what we're doing, right.

I feel many times that this occupation of selling advertising or marketing is more about these moments meeting I don't know how many clients.

I mean, I've even thought to myself, I don't want to go up and work today and bang on doors and try to sell an ad or whatever.

And yet every time I do, I meet someone I'm so thankful to God I met that day.

I think, wow, the storm I just heard or what this person's going through.

And I fail often, right?

I'm failing a lot, thinking I'm still focused on my own garbage.

But I can't help but think your handyman business is really bringing you to people that are price suffering and you just have no idea.

We have no idea.

Just the help it might be.

So any, I hear the out whatever it's called out music, whatever.

But any last words you got?

Jay, we really again appreciate you coming today and really sharing here.

I just want to thank you for the opportunity.

If anybody that sees this needs just someone to talk to or if I can help in any ways, not even just for the business, just for, you know, matters on addiction or anything, give me a call.

My number's on my ad.

And thank you very much for having me.

Oh, thank you.

And hopefully they'll keep it clean out like some of those calls you got.

Thank you, Jay.

It.