Episode summary introduction:

During this journey we are taken into the harrowing case of Keith Block, who was reported missing by his wife, Ronda Black, in July 1998. The investigation revealed troubling inconsistencies that ultimately led to Rhonda's conviction for second-degree murder, for which she was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for ten years. 

Throughout our discussion, complexities of a homicide investigation come to life, including the initial misconceptions and the critical role played by evidence in discerning the truth. With reference to various media portrayals of the case, we reflect on the challenges faced by law enforcement and the importance of perseverance in seeking justice. 

Join us as we unravel the details of this real-life murder mystery and the journey toward closure for Keith Block's family.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The episode serves as a meticulous exploration of the chilling case of Keith Black, whose unexplained disappearance in 1998 led to a harrowing murder investigation that ultimately implicated his wife, Ronda Black. 

TC and Maddog engage in a comprehensive analysis of the investigative process, shedding light on the intricate methodologies employed by law enforcement to unravel the truth behind Keith's tragic fate. They discuss the psychological aspects of the case, emphasizing how personal relationships can become entangled in motivations for violence. The speakers provide a nuanced perspective on the challenges faced by investigators, particularly in cases lacking physical evidence, and the importance of maintaining a clear focus on the evidence to avoid misdirection. Additionally, they address the societal ramifications of the case, reflecting on the emotional toll it took not only on the victims' families but also on the community at large. Through a careful dissection of the events and motivations that led to the tragic outcome, this episode challenges listeners to consider the complexities of human behavior and the quest for justice in the face of profound loss.

Walkabout takeaways:

• The podcast episode explores a real-life murder mystery involving the case of Keith Black.
• Listeners are taken through the investigative journey that led to the conviction of his wife, Ronda Black.
• The investigation revealed numerous red flags that pointed towards Rhonda Black's involvement in the murder.
• The complexities of solving a homicide without a body are thoroughly discussed in this episode.
• The significance of following evidence in a case is emphasized throughout the narrative.
• Listeners are encouraged to stay tuned for the second part of this gripping investigation.

More about E-Walkabout:

To learn more about Electronic Walkabout visit us at   www.ewalkabout.ca.

If you want to read more “Thoughts of the Day” check out TC’s Book at Amazon:

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https://a.co/d/j5dGhBK 

A special thanks to Steven Kelly, our technical advisor, who keeps trying to teach these old dogs new tricks when it comes to sounds and recording!!

“Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you!”

Links referenced in this episode:

• Apple TV - An Hour to Kill
• Dark Poutine – A podcast about notorious Canadian crimes, dark history and other creepy topics as told by real-live Canadians
• Marshall Jones, Author of "Black Lies"
• R. v. Black, 2007 BCSC 1105 (CanLII), ＜http://canlii.ca/t/1s6zv＞ 
• R. v. Steadman, 2008 BCSC 1613 (CanLII), ＜http://canlii.ca/t/21nmn＞ 

Electronic Walkabout. No one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times.

Everyone needs a little direction now and again. And TC and Maddog are here to show you the way. A podcast where we talk about the important things in life.

Come journey with us, the Electronic Walkabout. Well, good afternoon listeners all over the world and welcome to another exciting episode of Electronic Walkabout.

As the police began to investigate, a number of red flags began to surface that suggested that something was just not right. Investigators had their sights on finding the truth, which culminated in Keith's very own wife being convicted of second degree murder.

Join us as we talk about a real life investigation and how the police solved the case and brought closure to Heath Black's family. But first, as always, a thought for the day. No guarantees in life is subjected. That means you're in control, guaranteed.

Okay, I will believe you.

Well, how are you doing this fine March day, Maddog?

I'm doing well. It's had little bits of feeling of spring in the air, so I find that changes people's attitudes.

So, yeah, looking forward to a permanent break from the dampness.

And what do you think about that whole daylight savings time because we had to change our clocks on the weekend?

Yeah, it messed me up, you know, because some of them change automatically, some don't. So you're walking through the house and you just don't know what time it is, truly. But it really doesn't affect me that much at all. I don't.

Well, this is the only executive order that I'm hoping that the President of the United States does sign and gets rid of that whole let's change our clocks twice a year situation.

That's fair. I'll vote for that.

Yeah, we'll go for that. Now, Maddog, have I piqued your interest a little bit?

A little bit, Very much.

Okay, so just, just so you know, listeners out there, I was part of this investigative.

He was going to ask that worked.

On this homicide action for two years. I do have little insight of what happened.

And having said that, this murder has been the subject of a book entitled "Black Lies" by Marshall Jones, who was One of the reporters in Kelowna, he sat in that courtroom during the trial, and from that courtroom testimony, he wrote a book on it. There's also this homicide has also been the subject of a podcast as well.

There's a podcast called Dark Poutine, which sounds kind of Canadian when you think about it. And I think I listened to that podcast a couple times.

And so one of their episodes focuses on this investigation as well. So in a way, I thought to myself, well, who knows more about this than I was just going to say now?

No, I will caution the readers, no trade secrets here. Anything that we're going to talk about is already in the public. So there's no, like I say, there's no police secrets or anything like that.

But you are going to see exactly, just through our conversation, how we approach these investigations, how we move them forward. And sometimes they're not successful, but when it comes together, it really helps to solve that situation.

Very interesting. I feel like I'm on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries or something now.

You'll see, as usual, that the meteor saying man missing or whatever when you're sitting back in your living room. Maddog, what are you thinking when you see these reports or watching the.

News on TV of a man gone missing? Yeah, drugs, illicit activities, like bad things that gentlemen tend to do.

Not saying that ladies are exempt from that, but it just doesn't, in my opinion, I don't think immediately of the spouse in that scenario. It's it. Yeah. More of a he's gotten himself into something with some nefarious characters and met his end. That's.

That would, that's my first assumption.

And I will tell you this. One of the theories that came to life during the investigation was exactly the. Keith Black was the ultimate role model.

He was actually the owner operator of Taekwondo Academy and it was then called west bank, now it's West Kelowna. Well known in the Taekwondo community, well respected and had quite the following as well.

So that alleviates some of those initial thoughts then, because.

Okay. And now, keeping in mind that, and you've heard it quite a bit in the past, where the police get Tunnel vision.

I like to say for sure that that doesn't happen today, but there's still a possibility.

Fast forward a couple years, here is this file is dropped in my lab.

So it was a previous file that kind of went cold and. Okay, got it.

Yeah. So what do you do with that? Any thoughts on that?

Aside from, you know, reviewing it, scouring it over like. No. This is very interesting because it's very rarely do you get to have this type of conversation with an ex police officer.

So, you know, here's the thing, and just for the listeners, I, I've actually written a couple, couple of books and when I, I was trying to tell people that, hey, I wrote this book, the first one I wrote, they said, well, was it about one of your cases? I said, no, no, it's not about one of my cases.

So, I mean, like, literally when you talk about, especially with this could have been really one of those movies of the week that just keeps you on the edge and you don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

Right. So no, it sounds like it. So I'm interested to learn more.

So you're right. So you, you take the time and you scour and you come up with some, let's say, investigative strategies.

But one of, one of the things keeping in mind that's very challenging when it comes to an investigation is that truly we don't know whether this individual is still missing or whether in fact, he's met his demise.

So no body?

No, no body. Which is really a bigger challenge when we know for a fact that there's a homicide there and you don't have a body.

We start looking at the statements. He's a missing person.

So I take it upon myself to make sure that I talk to his wife, keep her updated as to any information that may kind of suggest where Keith might be. And one of the driving forces of this investigation was Keith's sister.

And she was the one that, that really made sure that the police, he held the, the police's feet to the fire, say, hey, what's going on with this? What's going on with this? And I will, I will tell the listeners this. Is that sad to say that there's Probably a lot of unsolved homicides out there.

Why one gets picked over the other, I have no idea. But in this case, like when it dropped in my lap, I. It, like it's. I. I need to figure out something. I'm like a dog with a bone.

I got to figure out what's going on. Right.

So questioned with that. Lots of questions as it comes up. So you're saying that there's no priority to cold cases. So does somebody else maybe have an inclination that.

An inclination story that maybe there's more to this and with fresh eyes, maybe something can be found or. Or is it literally just pulling out of a stack of files?

No, no, you're absolutely right. So the, the. The whole fresh eyes things, it has a lot of value, right? Because it's all perspective.

And then getting back that comment I made about tunnel vision, and if you look at something, say, well, no, you should go this way and that way, there's something called speed, flow and direction with respect to an investigation. And then based on that, you develop your investigational strategies.

So in this case, the focus initially was on Ronda Black because there was too many red flags.

And as the investigation unfolds, there's information that comes to life that she's actually approached a couple of people looking to take care of her husband. If you don't want to play couple hitman, that kind of situation.

Keith's best friend Howard, is also, I'll say, an individual that plays a part in this investigation. And through conversation between Howard and Rhonda, he mentions that. That Keith is actually looking to off Ronda.

Now, whether you believe that or not, there is nothing to really corroborate that.

And I'll use the word corroborate because it's important when it, when it comes to court, you have to be able to say, put some weight on this information. And in this case, there really wasn't.

Any weight because then it's just a he said, she said without any proof.

Absolutely.

Interesting.

So if you're sitting back and you're saying to yourself, let's say you're watching that movie of the week, and, and you, you ask yourself, what are the police going to do in this situation? And what do you see that normally.

Happens in that type of cold call? You see them canvassing the neighborhood and, you know, like it's had mentioned, just scouring through the. The current report.

And then in the shows that you watch, there's always one thing that the killer forgot or got exposed. And then that set that investigation on a different trail leading more directly to the perpetrator.

He's also passionate what you're saying. You know what?

I'm excited.

So very interesting. Here's that one thing that kind of like made us scratch our heads. Right. So Keith's vehicle and was.

Was located abandoned in a place called Tappan BC, which was about two hours away from Kelowna. And for those that don't know BC, which would be quite a few people in the world. But that's. That's close to Salmon Arm, BC, so right away we got this.

Okay, so how did that vehicle get there? And the suggestion was that because Keith was a hunter that he probably just wandered off into the bush with his rifle.

So this is one of the other theories that had come to life, that he was depressed.

Yeah.

And he wanted to end it.

Fair. So question just with the whole it being labeled a homicide with no body, how does that.

Like, at what point does that get actually declared as opposed to the person just founded Mistress and flew the country? Like, I guess you could track that. But is it just because there's no known whereabouts of the person at that time or what.

What gets it classified as a homicide?

Well, it's a good question. I mean, that's. That's one of the. One of the. One of the avenues that you're considering.

So you're going to treat it like it is a homicide until you find out otherwise. So safe to say you're following the evidence. And it was pretty challenging to follow that evidence.

And there was an incident that occurred too, because if you can imagine.

And it doesn't matter whether it's this investigation or any other investigation that people call in with tips which are good and bad because they help you to advance your investigation. That's fantastic. But there's a lot of tips that are really those that they don't mean anything, but they still have to be investigated.

And there could be ones that try and point you in an opposite direction as well.

I'm sure that's pretty sneaky. Yes. So there was one that came in where that suggested that Keith's body was in a rock quarry in some water which was really close to the west side.

Ran. But they searched that and found out it's pretty rare.

Somebody. Yeah, it's. Yeah. There's all these aspects to your job that you just don't really think about. But this is very.

Okay. So I'm gonna just throw something else out there just a little bit. Right.

So my man does not show up for work he doesn't show up to teach his taekwondo classes and Rhonda does not immediately report him missing.

That's not good either.

That's a red flag.

Yeah, absolutely.

It doesn't, doesn't mean that she did anything, but it's certainly. Well, that's odd. That's curious.

Yeah. It's been a couple days. Whenever my husband is. Ye should be a little more intensity put behind that thought.

So, investigative strategies, I kind of asked you.

So normally what you're going to do is you're going to come up with, let's say, a list of people you might want to talk to again to see if there's any other information that they may have learned, let's say after they were initially spoken to by the police, you're going to consider wiretap and I'll talk a little bit about wiretap in a second here. But you're also going to consider an undercover operation. I probably spent about six months writing that affidavit for that wiretap.

I actually wrote affidavits for over a two year period straight. That's one of the things I did being on that investigative team because really our team was quite small.

And don't get me wrong, we had a lot of support from the rest of the province, but for the most part we did a lot of groundwork and prepared the wiretap warrants and that was all in preparation for the undercover operation.

Interesting. Quick question.

Yes.

How many typically on a team for an investigation like that? Just because I have no reference at all.

So I had a bit of a chuckle. Okay, so what, what happens? I spent two years doing that investigation.

I got transferred to the Homicide, they call it, I hit in the lower mainland here. And right away we're in the, through a similar investigation and there's an army of people on my team and they're all doing this and all doing that.

I'm thinking we did all this with like 3 people.

Over utilization of resources.

And you don't know any better and you're just doing the best you can. Right. But, and don't get me wrong, it wasn't just three people that, that that advanced this investigation.

Because when you talk about a wiretap investigation, there's people that monitor those, those calls, there's people that, that transcribe those calls. There's a Crown agent involved who's reviewing that and, and making the application to the judge.

If there's an undercover operation there, a UC team that looks after that.

So if you look at it from this perspective, let's say I'm the investigator and I'm the general contractor, and I'm going to contract out wiretap, going to contract out undercover, and somehow manage them all together with some kind of strategy behind them so that you can get what you want. Because we need evidence that we can say that we can go to court with this.

All right, so, and then, second part to that question, when you're on this team and you're investigating, is it. Is that the sole focus of the team, or is it like, okay, every Wednesday outside of our normal tasks, let's focus on this. Or is that.

So what will typically happen in that case? Because it became what's referred to as a project. That's what we worked on night and day.

Okay, interesting.

When I worked on the homicide team, we could be running three or four, five, and taking in new investigations. Gotcha. Every day. But that's just the nature of the beast, too. Right. So. Yeah. And then wiretaps. So they're not easy. And I will tell you this for.

Let's just say Big Brother, to come into your world and start tapping your phone, start listening to intercepts in your home, that's quite intrusive, right?

Don't say. Well, that Alexa. No, yeah, I think it's the same thing, just under a different guise.

Yeah. So they. They call that the greatest intrusion on the expectation of privacy, at least here in Canada. Right. But it's. And that's why it's.

It's got to go to a higher court. And. And there's some.

I'll call them statutory prerequisites that need to be met before you can have that authorization granted that allow you to actually start listening to these people. Right, so.

So that. What did you call that? The greatest in perceived privacy? What did you see there?

Okay, so the greatest intrusion on someone's expectation of privacy.

Ah, interesting. Okay.

And when you think about it. Right. Big Brother.

Right.

So. And you.

And getting back to Alexa thing, I mean, how many times have you been like, let's say, talking about going to Mexico, and then you hop on your computer and then all of a sudden, this Cabo comes up, this court of Aarta comes up. I'm going, how does that happen?

Yeah, it's. It's scary. It's scary, but interesting. No, I like the perceived. Yeah, no, let's. Okay, sorry. Let's. Let's. Let's keep going.

This is Joanne. And again, no. No trade secrets here being shared, because literally, if I'd say about 10, 15 years ago, there was a expose in the. In the.

The province in B.C. that basically give a paint by the number of how the undercover were. Technique works.

Interesting. Interesting to people that abide the law, and I'm sure interesting people that don't.

But if I was like, literally, if I was the focus of the. An undercover operation and I. And I happened to be reading that paper, I would be saying, hey, wait a second, I did this. I did this.

Am I the subject of an undercover operation? Right.

That's fair.

So there is some pros and cons to go ahead and doing that, but typically what happens is that you have a cover man that is basically the director in a movie. He'll sit down and he'll give direction to that operator or operators, depending on what's going on that day.

And saying the goal of this meeting is A, B and C. And typically speaking, they'll probably be anywhere from 100 to 200 meets with this.

We'll call the person that's subject of the operation that will culminate to what's referred to as a Mr. Big. And I'll explain more about a Mr. Big in a second here, because one of the things I want to mention to you that. That the. The.

The first meeting between that undercover operation and that subject that's the focus of the operation is so important because if. If literally that subject just blows that operator off, you're dead in the water. You're not going anywhere.

Yeah. Got to play nice until you establish a relationship.

Yeah. So there's got. And that's the thing. They. These. These individuals are highly trained individuals that.

I'll just say they make it easy for you to like them.

They're.

Yeah.

Psychology going into that.

There's a lot of psychology, but. But quite. Quite frankly, I mean, these people, they can think on their feet. They're. They're good at feigning the criminal element. They're.

They're good at like literally saying, okay, I want to be your best friend. And people believe them.

Improv specialists that can just kind of off the cuff, go with a random conversation. Very interesting.

Yeah. Not an easy thing to do. But. And some. Some. Some people even call them the rock stars.

But they certainly, like I said, getting back that whole General Contractor thing that, I mean, they're a part to that show and a very important part. But it's not just that alone. It's everything all together that helps to move things forward. So Mr.

Big, really, @ the end of the day, is that the plan is that you are going to let's say, be part of my criminal organization. But before you can join this organization, you have to go meet the boss.

And while you're meeting the boss before we can accept you, because you've already got an understanding that becoming involved in my organization, there's a lot of money to be made in it. And so in order for that to happen, you have to go see who's referred to as Mr. Big and confess all your sins. And Mr.

Big is going to help your sins disappear.

Right. So this is sounding more and more movie like.

So have you seen this in the movies at all?

Oh, there's definitely lots of Mr. Bigs out there, that's for sure.

And keep me in mind, we still had no idea where, where Keith was. Right. We get, we get to the point and Rhonda goes and meets Mr. Big and she confided to Mr. Big what she did to Keith and what she tells Mr. Big.

And I'm not going to go through the whole, the whole thing, but at the end of the day, I've already told you what, what kind of a role model Keith was. But not only he was working a full time job running this school and he was, he was tired. I mean, we just had that discussion about you.

It's not an easy thing to do.

It is not. You're burning a candle at both ends all the time.

So he was taking a nap in the basement and while he was asleep, his wife snuck up on him and stabbed him in the neck.

Wow.

Yeah. This is what she's confiding in Mr. Big. So when you hear that, what's the next obvious question that comes to your mind?

Well, it was the body. Where's the body? But there should be signs of evidence somewhere in that basement.

Okay, so we'll, we'll get to that. The evidence in the basement thing. Okay, so let's, let's talk about the body for a second. Okay, so what do you do with the body?

And if you, and if you can ask this mad dog, I'm a little concerned.

Okay, well, well there's, I've watched lots of bad movies, so that's all I'm referring to. Options are wrap the body up, put it in a trunk and displace it somewhere else.

Options are cutting it up into little pieces and spreading it out all over the place. You could have a pig farm. Am I saying too much here? Is it?

But that, that's what I would, that's where my brain goes and so far is what somebody would do in that situation.

And, and you made reference to the, to the pig farm, which is, which, which is the, the pick and investigation. And of course that's kind of, I'll say his M.O. that he used to, to, let's say, clean up the bodies afterwards. Right.

But in, in this particular case, you did roll him up in a tarp, put him in the trunk of his car and drove out to a place just outside of Banff. Mad Dog music is telling us the first part of this episode has come to an end.

I'm looking forward to the next part.

Are you on the edge of your seat right now?

I am, I am.

Right now we don't know what happened or how Rhonda did this. And if you listen to the next episode, surely there it's all going to come together for you.

Yeah, man, I'll be there.

Stay tuned for the second part of a two part episode to find out who helped Rhonda. If anybody remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you.

To learn more about Ewalkabout, please visit us at Ewalkabout.

Cast.