In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Tara Blythe, Chief People Officer at Infotech, to break down what “future-ready leadership” really means in the age of AI. Tara explains why AI is less a threat to humanity and more a catalyst for becoming more human, as leaders relearn curiosity, creativity, and critical judgment. She shares her “AC cheat code” framework, combining Action (agility, agency, adaptability) with Connection (communication, curation, curiosity), and talks about how Infotech embeds AI into OKRs, runs safe-to-fail pilots, and uses culture to remove the stigma of using AI at work. Tara also explores why job descriptions have become outdated artifacts, how different industries are adopting AI at very different speeds, and why HR’s future is organizational transformation, not paperwork.

Topics Discussed:

• Why AI can make work more human, not less
• What history tells us about every major tech shift
• The AC cheat code: Action + Connection skills for the AI era
• Relearning curiosity and creativity as core leadership capabilities
• Embedding AI into strategy, OKRs, and everyday workflows
• Culture, stigma, and making AI experimentation “safe to try”
• HR’s evolution into an organizational transformation function

Additional Resources:

• Cleary’s AI-powered HR Chatbot
• Future Proof HR Community
• Connect with Tara Blight on LinkedIn

The future of HR has to be more towards organizational

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development.

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It needs to be around organizational

transformation, understanding the output

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and the vision of the business and how

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how we empower our people to get there.

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That is the role of HR.

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Thomas Kunjappu: They keep

telling us that it's all over.

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For HR, the age of AI is upon

us, and that means HR should

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be prepared to be decimated.

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We reject that message.

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The future of HR won't be handed to us.

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Instead, it'll be defined by those

ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.

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Future Proof HR invites these builders to

share what they're trying, how it's going,

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what they've learned, and what's next.

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We are committed to arming HR

with the AI insights to not

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just survive, but to thrive.

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Thomas: Hello and welcome to the

Future Proof HR podcast, where we

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explore how forward-thinking HR leaders

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are preparing for disruption

and redefining what it means to

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lead people in a changing world.

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I'm your host, as always, Thomas Kunjappu,

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CEO of Cleary.

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Today we have Tara Blight, the

Chief People Officer at Infotech.

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Where she leads culture,

strategy, and communications.

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A dynamic speaker, consultant, and adjunct

faculty member of the University of

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Florida, Tara blends deep organizational

development expertise with a

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forward-looking lens on leadership and AI.

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She's spoken widely about future-ready

leadership in the age of AI and

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believes that integrating generative

technologies with human-centered skills

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isn't just possible, it's essential.

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So let's get into it and

welcome Tara to the podcast.

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Tara: Hi, happy to be here.

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Thomas: So tell me a little bit about

the concept of future ready leadership

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that you've been talking about.

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What is this all about?

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Tara: Yeah.

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So you said my background is

people, culture, communications.

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It is, but really it's

transformation, right?

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And so this to me is

very aligned with that.

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At Infotech,

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I have the privilege of

embedding AI into our strategy.

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It's part of our OKRs.

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I'm one of the executive team

who's focused on that strategy.

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But for me, the heart of this

work is simple right now.

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And the transformation itself is simple.

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AI doesn't make us less human.

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It makes us more human.

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And that within itself, and I know you

like to potentially debate a little.

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I'm OK with starting there.

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Like I've been talking about this

for a while before it became trendy,

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if you were, because history shows

every technological revolution

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right now resets the skills we need.

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And so when you're coming from

an organizational standpoint,

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you're coming from a people

standpoint, my expertise, you need

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to understand that pattern repeats.

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But the leaders who lean in earlier

are the ones that thrive longer.

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So that's where I'm really

coming from with that.

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Thomas: Awesome.

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Tell me more about that.

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If you're comparing it to historical

trends, tell me about these other

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waves that we've gone through and

that you like to compare this to.

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Tara: Yeah.

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First, let me bring you back

to one of my favorite studies.

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talk about this study a lot when I speak.

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I don't think I've talked about

it on a podcast lately, though.

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This would be the right time to do it.

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And George Land was a psychologist.

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He was hired by NASA in 1968.

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He was hired to predict future astronauts.

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He conducted a longitudinal study and

he showed that 98% of five-year-olds,

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56% of 10-year-olds, I think I

want to say it was like 13% of

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15-year-olds, 2% of adults were

creative geniuses based on this study.

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What he concluded at the end wasn't future

astronauts, but what he concluded is that

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creativity is learned

and it can be unlearned.

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And that what happens at some point in

our age and our as we age, we as adults

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stop asking that age old question.

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And yes, that is my favorite book, right?

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So I still come back to when

people ask me for a book,

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I'm like, five why, start with why.

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It's a curiosity piece.

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It's a skillset piece.

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And over our lifetimes, we

are often, as human beings,

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told to stop asking questions.

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Boxes are drawn around us.

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Frameworks are put into place.

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And eventually, someone that

we look up to, someone that

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matters, tells us to stop asking.

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And we stop learning.

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We stop being curious.

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But my premise when it comes

to AI and with that technology

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advancement, and I will talk

about a little bit of where we've

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seen it before, is if creativity

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is learned, it can be relearned, right?

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And our job in the age of AI

is to reawaken that curiosity,

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that creativity.

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What motivates me most is not just

the future-proofing of companies,

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we're future-proofing people.

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And that's the leadership's

most urgent mandate right

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now.

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Going back to your point, I

could go back to Socrates, right?

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So if I'm going back to the really old,

I love to talk about Socrates, didn't

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believe you should write things down.

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He felt that if you wrote things down,

that it would be a crutch for people.

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They wouldn't think as strongly.

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It would be too obvious.

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The only reason we know anything

about his writing is because

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Aristotle wrote it down for him.

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We come back to future today, look at the

internet when it came out and the number

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of executives that were against that.

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The printing press, any kind

of technological advancement in

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our history has gotten pushback.

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Has gotten the same thing we're

seeing today when it comes

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to AI, has gotten criticism.

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And I'm not saying that healthy criticism

isn't important, but we have but we have

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to put ourselves in that standpoint first

if we're talking about future-proofing

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our workforce moving forward.

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Thomas: That's a great point.

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That reminds me of the MIT study that

came out a couple months ago about

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the idea that there's some early

indications that use of AI is getting

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our brains more stagnant, right?

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Because we're relying more on it.

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But that's a similar, to your point,

similar way that people have, if not

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derided, at least had some feedback

around initially in society when

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any new technology comes around.

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You're Googling it.

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And man, back in my day, I had

to figure it out myself and

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look it up and know where to

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go with the Dewey Decimal

System and the library.

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But let's talk a little bit specifically

more about leadership, right?

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You're talking a little bit

about the leadership angle and

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future-ready leadership this age.

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Do you think your thoughts about this

has shifted any with the rise of LLMs?

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You've been talking

about this for a while.

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So do you think it's

shifted with the rise of AI?

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Or is it just another ingredient

that we need to keep in mind

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as we think about leadership?

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Tara: So if we go back to the context

piece that you just put, and then

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square it in your question about

leadership in particular, each wave of

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disruption is compressing time, right?

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So it took a hundred years for electricity

to scale, depending on what measure

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you use by that, for it to truly scale,

meaning like adoption, like understanding,

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like space, where it becomes the way that

we work, the way that we see the world

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versus the new thing that we need to

fight against or wonder or change around.

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It becomes the stage.

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standard.

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Smartphones, though, transformed

our lives in less than a

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decade, depending on the thing.

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And for you and don't know how old you

are, but like within our lifetime, we

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went from not having that to having that.

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And now it is the center of what we do.

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AI has gone from niche to mainstream in

under three years by a lot of arguments.

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Now mainstream, you're talking to

two people who are talking about

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AI all day, most of the time.

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And I know there are still

many resistors who are still

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like, what do you mean by that?

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And where does it look?

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But if you just look at the

facts, we got 700 million people

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as of last week, probably gone

up again on ChatGPT right now.

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700 million people using

it on a daily basis.

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So if I put those historical parallels

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back into the leadership context, I

like to use my favorite futurist's quote

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and his name's Maurice Conti.

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I also like to joke about this.

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So please bear with me.

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From what I can tell,

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you become a futurist

by just saying something

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in the right context enough

that comes to be true.

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And then they give you that title.

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So that's my ambition.

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I'm gonna do that enough

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that maybe one day I'll be a futurist.

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But Maurice Conti, in a talk about seven,

eight years ago now on a TED Talk, I want

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to go back, I want to say it was 2017.

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His famous quote was, the world's

going to change more in the next 20

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years than it has in the last 2000.

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And he was specifically talking about

agenic AI and before others were

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in 2017 and how it would plan, act,

adapt and become a digital colleague.

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So from a leadership standpoint,

my premise of leadership has

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always been situational leadership.

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And you can have a lot

of different definitions.

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There's a lot of good

leadership practice out there.

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I don't care if you call yourself a

servant leader or a situational leader.

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Your perspective is you lean into

the needs of your people and you

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understand the needs of the business.

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And you place people in a way where they

can transform themselves to be successful.

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Where we need to change leadership

mindset is the people and the resources

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that you're looking at, both in

regards to the different generations

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that are working side by side

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and the digital workers that

are now working side by side.

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And we also have to understand

that resistance is natural.

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Like the joke about Socrates

is real, but not every leap.

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It's the real barrier isn't tech.

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It's always mindset.

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And from a leadership standpoint,

it's how do we move that mindset?

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Mindset and practice is iteration.

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So at Infotech, for example, we don't

launch big bang type IA programs.

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We embed AI in our OKRs.

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We're running safe to fail pilots.

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We normalize learning loops.

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We turn on the magic sparkle icon

in every software somebody already

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trusts because when we don't know

what something is, we call it magic.

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And that magic right now is AI, right?

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That we make sure that functionality

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is not governed a way for

somebody being able to use it.

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And that allows for adoption that scales.

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Thomas: So there's a lot we

could dig into, but I'd love

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to talk about mindset analytics

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And also, I guess what you're seeing at

this moment in time across your peers.

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So what's something you're seeing in

the field, excitement, hesitation,

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implementation, curiosity, whatever that.

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What is the general mindset

you're seeing across HR leaders

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at the moment with regard to AI?

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Tara: Yeah, current state today.

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And I think that this will change because

it was different a couple of months ago.

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Current state today, I'm seeing a bit

of a divide between industries, right?

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So those that understand the clear

business argument of it, the valuation

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multipliers for those owned by private

equity, the GPD, 13 trillion type

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studies that are coming out on where

we're going to add to our global

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economy with what this can come.

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Those industries that are driven and

focused on those types of spaces, you're

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seeing embracing, you're seeing, and then

you're seeing adoption from technologists.

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I'm in the SaaS industry right now.

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I serve civil and infrastructure

construction though.

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So I think I'm a perfect guest for

that because I'm a SaaS company.

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So we're going to have a lot of

cautiously curious employees generally.

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Our customers are construction

traditionally and historically the

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hardest to transform mindsets in.

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In fact, it's the only industry

where we see a paradox where

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you introduce technology and

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productivity actually went down, not

up, because there was such resistance

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to this fear of being obsolete.

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And that was any type of just moving from

paper plans to putting them on a computer,

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not trusting that computer and

what it would do with that,

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still having people drive to

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turn in their bid because they

couldn't trust the system,

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even if it was more efficient,

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more effective, or more secure, right?

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Now we have that multiplied when we're

having to trust someone to compute

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with you, augment your learnings,

learn with you, something that replaces

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something we do with our mind versus

something we do with our hands.

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And we're seeing that same resistance.

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So to answer your question, in my

industry and technology, and for any

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of the HR leaders out there, would say

we're seeing a lot of cautious optimism.

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I'm hearing a little bit of frustration.

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I'm actually seeing this disconnect

of people pointing at my peers and

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or governance officers within an

organization and saying, I want to

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use it, but they won't turn it on.

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Or they're afraid of the security or data

or this agreement makes it difficult.

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of the security or a data or this

agreement makes it difficult.

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Or you have them turning it on in a

way where without the proper support,

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and that's not training, but the proper

support for people to iterate with it.

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And sometimes some of these software

companies are turning it on before

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it's actually been built out and they

have a negative impression of it.

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And then they don't go

back and try it again.

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And then you have industries

and side, I'm the Chief People

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Officer for a tech company,

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but I also own a cocktail

bar and lounge on the side.

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In that industry, like I get that question

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a lot in the service

industry, are we seeing AI?

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Yeah, we're seeing it in the backend.

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We're

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seeing it in different tools.

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Is it going to start

making drinks for people?

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It's not, but adoption at a

different scale in a different space,

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but you see it used in personal

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life.

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And you're also seeing that

divide of acceptance in

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personal life when the stakes

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aren't as high and not as

much in the professional.

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And lastly, I would say in education, and

this is where I really get on a soapbox,

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we see what we've seen for any was we're

making it, we're putting a stigma on it.

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We're having teachers immediately

flag people for cheating

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if there's any evidence of

using AI because there's a whole

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now product line that can just

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check if you used AI.

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But they don't know how you use it, but

we're assuming the worst intentions.

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We're assuming you used it to write

what you should have written yourself

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instead of using it to augment your

learning and enhance, which is what

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it could be actually used to do.

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But then I get the debate, like how

do you make sure students don don't

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do that the same way that you do in

any type of learning, you give them

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that ability to lean in and move with

something and to iterate with it.

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And you'll see that augmentation.

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In the workforce, though, lastly, my

comment is I still am hearing from some

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workers, not so much in the technology

industry, but in the retail industry,

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the service industry and the commodity

industry a lot right now in present

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tense, that it that there's a fear of

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that people feeling like they will look

as lazy if they're known to use it.

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So they're using it on

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the side, they're using it on

their personal device, they're

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pulling it out of their office

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computer, and they're doing it on the side

and using it because they're interested.

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They think they can augment it,

but it hasn't been accepted yet or

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they're worried about the stigma that

will be assigned to them if they do.

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I will tell you, though,

that will work itself out.

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We're three to four months away

from that's going to go away.

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This is a typical hiccup in that process

and you're going to have fast movers and

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slower movers, but you have to adopt it.

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You have to move forward.

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Thomas: That was a conversation

about several different things.

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So I think what I'm hearing is that

specifically with adoption within

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HR, it changes based on industries.

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The ones that are technology forward

tend to both have the personnel who

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are curious and always looking at

and looking to adopt new things.

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And they tend to be have the personnel

who are curious and always looking

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at and looking to adopt new things.

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And they tend to be earlier

adopters, which is traditional.

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But then you also mentioned industries

that are like either private equity

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driven or have some kind of investment

thesis where there's an efficiency

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play on the book on the just on the

business side that drives adoption.

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And it's interesting that you mentioned,

it's almost like two different

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polar opposite responses to this.

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So in a lot of organizations with

knowledge workers top down, the

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company's looking for more adoption.

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Hey, everyone, please use it

more, experiment more, let's get

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people moving in that direction.

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But you're saying sometimes

with service workers and

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other in several other industries,

people are like who are doing it are

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actually hiding it because it's themes

culturally like it's actually not

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something you're it's feels akin to

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cheating.

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Yeah, almost.

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It's pretty bifurcated there.

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So I think all of this comes back to that

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comment you made about mindset, right?

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Like ultimately, it's a mindset shift.

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So what role

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culture play in scaling this mindset

shift across the organization?

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Tara: Yeah.

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So let me, the biggest, the biggest,

like how do we create safe environments?

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How do we appreciate people?

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How do we set them up for success?

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How do we make sure that the

organization is lifting together?

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One of the comments that we talk

about in innovation, and this is

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a talk that's been around for all.

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So let's change the term here from

digital transformation and AI, which

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is the innovation of the moment.

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And it is quite the

innovation of the moment.

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It's a transformational innovation.

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It's something that will

change the way we do work.

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And it does deserve that

type of level of emphasis.

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But if we talk back to, say,

15 years ago in my profession,

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the big talk, and you started

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to see these chief innovation

officers be created, and this idea

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of innovation at a different level.

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And the basic concept behind that,

which I do buy into very much,

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and we see companies that succeed

because of it, is if you're not

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experimenting, you're eroding.

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There's enough pressure.

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There's enough notice to see

people on the T500 right now.

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They used to be companies used to

be on that for 65 years on average,

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if they with the same standard value

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But today,

354

you're lucky if you're on that

for the 12th, if you don't

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completely transform the way you do

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business.

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And it's not because of the tech, it's

because the people need to transform.

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And we got to move out of that

kind of safety and stagnation

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standpoint to moving that mindset.

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And that so culture in

regards to, to answer

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the space, giving them the ability

to iterate, giving them the space to

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ask questions, to learn from where

they are, to lean in from their seat

363

and to lean in from their position.

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I'll give a real-time example.

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I did a presentation for my

organization two weeks ago and it was

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well-received, but one of the questions

that came out of it was because

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say that jobs are being eliminated.

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I'm not going to take that.

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That is jobs are being eliminated.

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But opportunities are not.

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AI will create more opportunities,

more jobs, more new jobs than

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it eliminates without a doubt.

373

People then take that and say,

yeah, but I don't want to be

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a machine learning engineer.

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You don't have to be a

machine learning engineer.

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We're not replacing engineers with AI.

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We're replacing engineers

who don't use AI with

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engineers who do.

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We're not replacing customer service.

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It's still a job that's needed, but the

skill sets that you need and how you go

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about your job and the tools that you

need do need to adapt in this space.

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So to adjust that culture, you need

to adapt in this space so to adjust

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that culture you need to create

transformation in the structures

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the systems the communication and

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Thomas: the space.

386

Yeah so but it is right for people to

jump to that hey like I'm not an i'm not

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an engineer i'm not going to be creating

new models or work for one of the major

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like LLM kind of companies, right?

389

Are you saying that the roles will

exist in some form going forward, just

390

that the, how you do it will change?

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Tara: Yeah.

392

I say that the professions will exist in

some form, I guess, if I'm going to make

393

it broader, the roles themselves, there

are many roles that will seek to, seek,

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cease to exist as they are defined today.

395

And this is, this is an

artifact of my systems, of us.

396

If I'm talking to my other HR leaders

out there, we've created the biggest

397

artifact that's the problem here,

which is called the job description.

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And we fought for years how

employees don't want to have

399

other duties as assigned.

400

If it's not on their job

description, they don't do it.

401

That can't work anymore.

402

Your job needs to change and adapt at

a pace that we've never seen before.

403

That agility and that ability

404

to adapt to the needs of your

environment and to the needs

405

of your role needs to shift.

406

But the professions don't change.

407

What I'm saying, there still a need?

408

And I can take any profession,

I can take any industry.

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Will there still be a need for

a sales and marketing role,

410

a customer success type role?

411

And I'm using SaaS because that's easy.

412

That's coming off in my head.

413

A retail management type role, a

supply chain management type role.

414

Yes.

415

So most people pick a profession

that's broader, but the way they

416

go about that would change, right?

417

Let's take the one that is the

most, I think, debated right now.

418

Do we need content specialists anymore?

419

get that a lot.

420

Those exceptional writers, those creative

geniuses that just had a way with words

421

that we couldn't create ourselves.

422

And we hired people to be able to do that.

423

I would say, absolutely, we do.

424

Is it fair, though, to expect

probably a four to five time

425

multiplier today if they were using

tools correctly in their output?

426

Yes.

427

Those people are already better

skilled to continue to do the job we

428

still need the output in than anyone

else they could hire in that role.

429

But they need to adapt how they do it.

430

And they need to use the

skills of today to do that and

431

understand what that looks like.

432

And I think you're going to see

education follow suit and how we

433

teach what that looks like and

how we augment and how we curate.

434

And that gets into the skill

435

set question, but hopefully that answers.

436

This has been a fantastic

conversation so far.

437

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

438

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

439

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

440

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

441

can all thrive in the age of ai.

442

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

443

community.

444

Now back to the show.

445

Thomas: It does.

446

I think that's great.

447

So I like to switch to a

448

slightly different topic, which is a

framework that you have based on us

449

both being fans of 90s video games.

450

Tell me more about this framework.

451

Tara: Yeah.

452

Okay.

453

And he's talking about,

454

because I talked for all those listening,

I gave him a little heads up on this.

455

It's a newer one that I try to

put together because I'm asked

456

a lot, what are the skills?

457

And I've had the skills for a minute,

but I recently put it in a framework

458

and I called it the AC cheat code.

459

Part fun, part serious, right?

460

Yes, it's my nod to our 90s babies

out there who remember video games.

461

And when you know the right

code, you can unlock the whole

462

new level in the age of AI.

463

This is the code that will help upscale

that will help people unlock that level.

464

And the formula is simple.

465

It's action plus connection.

466

And then playing with A's here.

467

So I use the different names.

468

Action includes agility,

agency, adaptability.

469

Connection is communication,

curation, and curiosity.

470

As I said, my most important

skill that I've talked about

471

for 20 years, curiosity, that

472

innovation skill set.

473

These skills give us

that human edge, right?

474

So they're not new, though.

475

And that's where I want us to pause on.

476

Like, these are not new skills.

477

These are very similar to the emotional

intelligence is proven to be the

478

most effective in leadership, not IQ.

479

Look at what defines emotional

intelligence is proven to be the

480

most effective in leadership, not IQ.

481

Look at what defines

emotional intelligence.

482

Those terms, those skills are also

very aligned with the highest in EQ.

483

Agility is critical thinking at pace.

484

Critical thinking has been a top five

skill in my profession of Fortune 500

485

companies for people they're hiring

out of college across industries.

486

Top five most important

skills for the last 25 years.

487

It they're hiring out of college

across industries, top five most

488

important skills for the last 25 years.

489

It's never fallen out of the top five.

490

The difference is at pace.

491

We don't have the time anymore

to go into a room with a bunch

492

of other smart people and take

493

two weeks to make the decision.

494

We have to make the best decision

we can, given the context we have

495

and the tools available for us.

496

And we have the

497

perfect partner to do that

right now in what AI provides.

498

And it's incredible at that.

499

Decide fast, adapt quickly, move.

500

Agency is ownership.

501

Agency is that empowerment skill.

502

It's making sure everyone sees that they

have the ability to lead from their seat.

503

And that's what's also been

talking about for a while.

504

When I say leadership, I

don't mean people manager.

505

I don't mean title.

506

I mean, taking an agency and ownership

507

and accountability over your actions,

508

what needs to be accomplished

509

and where you're going to move it forward.

510

That skill is critically important.

511

Adaptability, ties with resilience.

512

Resilience is a big word

that people have been used,

513

but it's that flexibility across tools,

514

across markets, across teams.

515

And then connection,

communication, first and foremost.

516

And yes, like this is, you

said this beforehand, and I am

517

interested in your lens on this

before we prepped for this podcast.

518

You wondered if the future HR leaders

needed to have a more technical mindset.

519

I would say the future HR leaders have

to have more of a communicative mindset

520

that they're already highly skilled at.

521

They do have to have a systems

framework to understand their

522

ability to influence transformation.

523

But communication in today's

world at a simple standpoint

524

is like prompt clarity, right?

525

I think it was HBR's recent

study, it came out January, 40%

526

productivity boost when humans and

AI collaborate effectively together.

527

And I do think you brought up

that MIT one that I'm always,

528

you can always make a study

529

to match your aims.

530

If you put the right box in

place, if you want to prove

531

that people use it as a crutch,

532

you can prove that people

use it as a crutch.

533

I can also prove that for those

that are neurodivergent, it

534

is an exceptional tool that

535

allows them to speak in a language

they've never had before, both within

536

a classroom and within the workplace.

537

So come at me on that one, right?

538

I'm going to come at you.

539

Curation is the next one.

540

And yes, it is discernment,

541

and I needed to see, but

it's curation, right?

542

It's that judgment speech.

543

And when I say by that, that human

nature of we have tools that are going to

544

provide us exceptional speed in regards

to how we can now approach an answer.

545

But we still need to be able to

check it and align it and space it.

546

So that discernment, that curation

skill of what is good information

547

and what is bad information and

what do I ask next and where do I go

548

from here is critically important.

549

And then lastly, curiosity, which

I think I've said that enough.

550

Thomas: Yeah, I think this is a

great framing because, and you're

551

getting to some of the corollaries

552

that come from this, which is

that these are all metacognition

553

skills, which pre-existing

554

the AI revolution have been

useful for any kind of innovative

555

culture or for just highly

556

valued folk in the workplace, right?

557

Yeah.

558

And there is this, I don't know

if it's a tension, but the concept

559

of mastery of these, you're

560

good if as long as you're curious, you're

agile, like all these kind of meta lenses

561

to look at how you come into the

workplace versus the technical

562

skillset of being a specialist or

having specific knowledge using a

563

technology or, I don't know, knowing how

564

to read a P&L statement for a public

company and understanding free cash flow

565

or understanding how to run Google ads

to generate demand for a SaaS product.

566

And these are, there are skills that are

obviously like valuable, but arguably

567

the cheat codes that you're talking

about are living at a level above that.

568

But the real

569

question that I wrestle with is, is

that really all that matters more?

570

Because you use things like

you talk about judgment, right?

571

And coming in.

572

So when you're at least

with this day and age of

573

where LLMs are going to that productivity

boost, the folks who understand

574

and have some technical expertise

or knowledge on their domain, and

575

also have those metacognition skills

that you're talking about, if that

576

combines, now it's a superpower.

577

Now you're really cooking with gas

and making, you're getting way more

578

outcomes and output in a 40-hour

work week than someone who doesn't.

579

But then I wonder if you don't, let's

say you're coming out of college and you

580

don't really have real world experience

in a particular domain, you're trying to

581

solve that problem, just leveraging AI.

582

I wonder how far you can go.

583

And maybe that'll keep

stretching out into over time.

584

But that's a bit of the tension that

I see, like how much is technical

585

and domain expertise still going to

be relevant, along with these skill

586

sets that help you theoretically

acquire any of those over time?

587

Tara: Yeah.

588

Is it the tension though?

589

It is.

590

It's the tension, but

it's also the opportunity.

591

And so

592

it was a World Economic

Forum study late last year.

593

It said 44% or 50%.

594

I think that was the 44%.

595

Skills will change in the next five years.

596

And the skills it pointed out.

597

And so I'm not disagreeing with that.

598

I'm also saying there's six core

skills that I just told you about that

599

have been the things that make people

different for quite a few years and

600

are the ones that are going to set you

up for success in this environment.

601

And I just, I, hopefully I can

make that point, but they are meta.

602

Right.

603

point.

604

The ones that they're pointing out

are ones that we knew were coming.

605

We were coming at the preface

of digital transformation.

606

That's what you were getting at.

607

It's more like digital literacy and

data acumen in a way that we've never

608

seen before in almost every profession.

609

Professions

610

that before you could say, I'm more

of a word person than a number person.

611

You don't get to make

that delineation anymore.

612

But the opportunity there is a mindset

shift, coming back to your first question.

613

And as a person who focuses

on people and the incredible

614

ability that human beings bring

615

in transforming something, you don't know.

616

When a person does something, when they

come into the room, the stakes have

617

changed because their lived experience,

their beliefs, their values, their

618

space, their ability to change that

whole dynamic because of who they are.

619

And you don't know what that is.

620

You can make guesses.

621

You can look at their

personality profiles.

622

You can look at their backgrounds,

but they are unique humans.

623

When A happens, B doesn't happen.

624

And that makes us special,

but there is a mindset move.

625

So the opportunity to me of that

distinct skillset, yes, we do need

626

to understand the distinct skill sets

that are transforming in almost every

627

profession and digital literacy,

technology, data, those types of things.

628

I do not take away from that.

629

We should be teaching

that in every curriculum.

630

And you've seen a groundswell for that.

631

That was the moving from

arts to STEM type idea.

632

It was a little bastardized in my

opinion, but it doesn't mean arts

633

aren't important and valuable and

special and still culturally what makes

634

us human, but there's a greater move.

635

So simplistic, like I like to use

terms sometimes, if we celebrated

636

the problem solvers in the past,

we're going to celebrate now in every

637

profession, the problem finders.

638

If we celebrated the ones that

had the answer to the question,

639

we're going to celebrate

640

more of those that question

the question and tell us what

641

the better question to ask is.

642

And that is a meta comment.

643

I understand that because it is a

meta capability and skill, but that

644

is what is going to continue to put

people, to really prove people apart.

645

And that is what is going to continue

to put people to really prove people

646

apart.

647

And that is the mindset that we

should be taking and looking at these

648

incredibly tools that allow us to run

faster than we ever have before, because

649

they augment, not replace, but they

augment what we're already good at.

650

And they put things at

our hands in that ability.

651

And it's coming.

652

It's here.

653

So our job is to figure out

how we're going to utilize

654

that, if that makes sense.

655

Thomas: I love that.

656

So let's get a little bit more practical

because you have a lot of experience

657

in actually bringing new workflows

and new ideas to life in practice.

658

And in fact, earlier you mentioned a

couple of blockers in the organizational

659

setting, of course, we're talking about

now, with driving AI, like there's either

660

legal roadblocks or governance roadblocks.

661

You also talked about like resistance

because of either fear of job loss

662

or shift or whatever the case is.

663

Can you share us share a little

bit about how you've navigated that

664

from an HR perspective to enable the

organization to adapt and adopt AI?

665

Tara: Yes, I can.

666

And I will also though say for

those listening, some of this is

667

going to work itself out around you.

668

You just need, you want to be part of it.

669

You want to be

670

walking with it.

671

So I, when I first started doing

some podcasts and talking on

672

this was almost two years ago.

673

And my first analogy was telling

people and I need to stop, but

674

I'm clearly bringing it up here.

675

That AI is kind of like the

people mover in the airport.

676

You can decide when to

get on or when to get off.

677

If you use it correctly, which is walking

on it, not standing on it, it'll get you

678

to the same destination faster, right?

679

What makes this a digital transformation

that we are lucky enough to live through

680

and therefore be the best position to

understand right now is that we have

681

that intersection of people, governance,

and technological advancement that only

682

happens when those things move together.

683

They're almost always

a little out of order.

684

Right now, the technology is a

little ahead of the governance

685

and the mindset and the

686

people.

687

We've had the other way around where the

people were ready before the technology

688

came and you've seen spaces of that.

689

But if we understand

690

that first, then we go, it's

solvable by focusing on transparency,

691

trust, safe experimentation,

692

and the understanding that time

is going to make it better.

693

Algorithm aversion is real.

694

That's

695

nearly half of the engineers.

696

And again, these are, I just told

you, these are my more easily

697

early adopters, but they're also my

biggest critics or biggest skeptics.

698

It's actually the more technical

people that are the ones that are

699

pushing back technically on AI

outputs and that some therefore revert

700

to old processes they can trust.

701

And we got to get their

702

mindset to shift.

703

Outside of that kind of stigma change,

my major things that I say is, one,

704

my mantra is start with what's already on.

705

So no matter where you

are in your journey of AI,

706

not everyone is as lucky as me where

we have an entire leadership team that

707

was ready to want to do this together.

708

And we were working towards how

do we make it work and how do we

709

still protect our data and how do

we not break things in the way.

710

I do know some of you are fighting

with just getting to be turned on.

711

And so what I would say is start with

turning on the things that you already

712

trust, the software you already use.

713

As I said, the magic sparkle icon,

Google helped a lot of Google

714

companies recently.

715

You didn't have a choice.

716

They just put Gemini on

and pushed it out to you.

717

But that was a great thing, right?

718

So turn it on where it already is.

719

It's already in your email.

720

It's already in your docs.

721

It's already in your spreadsheet.

722

Start there.

723

Iterate.

724

Build confidence in it.

725

Skill adoption.

726

Show people that's actually AI too.

727

Let them play with it in creative, fun

ways, like share things in those spaces.

728

But then we also have to like work

into that learning equity environment.

729

One of the things that I think we

did so well here, and that I would

730

be my number one example of what

we did is we created open-minded.

731

space for dialogue.

732

We're a Slack company.

733

Everybody has their own

version of that, right?

734

But meaning we communicate

internally on Slack.

735

We have a channel for everything.

736

One of the first things we

turned on was an AI channel.

737

That channel, our executives are in.

738

We answer questions when it's

prevalent, but really they

739

ask each other's questions.

740

They answer each other's questions.

741

They share resources.

742

They share points of view, often

very critical points of view.

743

They share criticism of something that

came out and is working or isn't working.

744

And then you'll have somebody

else pop in and say, try it again.

745

I tried it today and now that works.

746

You'll see those environments

and communication happen.

747

And it's not surprising

at all to someone like me.

748

In the pandemic, the way that I used to

talk about how I transformed culture or

749

how we helped to transform culture is

we turned on Slack channels where people

750

still got to connect with each other,

pandemic, the way that I used to talk

751

about how I transformed culture or how

we helped to transform culture is we

752

turned on Slack channels where people

still got to connect with each other,

753

even in an environment where

we physically couldn't.

754

So same thing applies here.

755

And that's going to be my

biggest thing for barriers.

756

You do need to take down the resistance.

757

You need to take away

the stigma where you can.

758

You do need to leave from

the top, but just turn on the

759

opportunities for exploration.

760

And if the safest way you can do that

might be to leave from the top, but just

761

turn on the opportunities for exploration.

762

And if the safest way you can do that

might be the tools that you already have.

763

Thomas: And you turn on the

tools that you already have.

764

Let's assume that we're talking about

a company where there's some like

765

leadership level buy-in or board

level buy-in about, hey, we need

766

to like transform what we're doing.

767

So around like AI adoption, you

talked about being open, transparent,

768

using a tool like Slack potentially

to talk about things that people are

769

seeing and communicating around that.

770

But then earlier, you also mentioned,

actually, it's gotten pretty structured.

771

You have KPIs, that's part of

your ongoing planning process.

772

So did it evolve from something that

you're talking about at an executive

773

team level to something then it's just

feels a little casual from an employee's

774

perspective, from some communications,

775

and then evolves towards something

more structured and almost part

776

of the oxygen, just with something

as core as the planning process?

777

Tara: Not well.

778

So yeah, I would say, yes,

I've seen that in other spaces.

779

That's not how it worked

780

for us.

781

And we did.

782

And this is actually one of my

recommendations for HR professionals

783

out there is you need to be part

of the executive team that is

784

understanding the mindset shift

and the digital transformation

785

and what we're moving forward.

786

You need to understand that your peers,

your Chief Product Officer, your Chief

787

Technology Officer, if you have a chief

innovation officer, you're going to

788

start seeing Chief AI Officers that

you're already starting to see that's

789

going to be part of the C-suite soon.

790

officers that you're already starting

to see that's going to be part of this

791

the c-suite soon their responsibility is

to embed functionality in the products

792

and the services and how you treat

your customers right yours is to embed

793

it in how you do your work and the

shifting of job responsibilities and

794

tasks and the tools that are available

in the spaces in the removing of the

795

stigma in the communication around it.

796

The OKRs for our company that I referred

to came from our product officer first.

797

She's exceptional.

798

And one of her first things she came

in, we hired a senior director of AI.

799

We're a software company.

800

should probably be thinking

about something like that.

801

And the OKRs there are amazing.

802

About AI functionality

in the software itself

803

and how it works.

804

And it's actually the core,

805

and it should be the core of

our value proposition right now

806

and our ability for growth and

scale at a different level.

807

It actually opens up a whole nother

opportunity for our business.

808

And it will do that for others.

809

My responsibility was then to augment that

810

with learning and upskilling

platforms and opportunities.

811

But the things are moving so fast here.

812

You can't, even though it would help you

813

create a self-directed learning

faster than you ever have before, the

814

self-directed learning will be out of

date within a week before you publish it.

815

So you need to come up with open forums

for that dialogue, for that communication.

816

Like that Slack channel, we talked about

opportunities for asking questions.

817

We're doing a series of lunch and learns,

what works with your culture and with

818

your space, and then empower people to

share their journeys and their stories.

819

But yes, I would say you make

it a business priority and you

820

make it a business priority.

821

This goes back to the comment

I made about innovation.

822

Eight years ago, nine years

ago, maybe 10, I guess at this

823

point, both companies that both,

824

Invertec, when I came here and the

company I came from, which was education,

825

I was one of the proponents of putting

innovation in every job description

826

within an organization because you

had to get permission to experiment.

827

Because if not, they felt like

it wasn't a part of their job.

828

If you've already evolved to

that, and I know some companies

829

haven't, now you take that forward.

830

You have that same approach here.

831

Also, I would say for HR

professionals, which I know that

832

if I'm talking to my peers out

833

there, you make the

business case for this.

834

You know what the business case is.

835

You understand.

836

We've been asked for years, if we

truly have, if you want a seat at the

837

table next to the other executives

of a company, you need to make them

838

understand the transformative power

of appropriate investment in people

839

and the impact that brings back.

840

And you have such a compelling

case right now in pairing that

841

with digital workers and the tools

842

that AI provides.

843

Make the business case.

844

If you really are getting

that resistance at the top,

845

which I don't think you'll get for

long, because honestly, any company

846

that doesn't have AI in their strategy

in their next six months, Tara Futurist

847

comment, will cease to exist in the

848

next two years.

849

I absolutely believe it.

850

It is the way of the turn

in almost every industry.

851

There might be some unique industries, but

in almost every industry, it needs to be a

852

part of your normal process at this point.

853

Thomas: So you're getting to this already

with the forward-looking comment there.

854

So as we wrap up then, Tara, could you

tell me a little bit about your thoughts

855

about the future of the function?

856

Where are we headed?

857

What is an HR team look like to

serve that future AI-driven company?

858

Tara: It already was

moving this way, though.

859

If you look back to what I did six

860

years ago, the future of HR has

to be more towards organizational

861

development.

862

That's why you see people like my

title, Chief People Officer and people,

863

culture, organizational

development structure.

864

It needs to be around

organizational transformation,

865

understanding the output and the

vision of the business and how

866

how we empower our people to get there.

867

That is the role of HR.

868

It doesn't mean that all the other

core functions that I call people

869

operations are not still critically

important and they will continue to be

870

important, but you need to transform

your role from the paperwork and the

871

reactive safety security role within the

organization to the strategic facilitator.

872

And we're prone to do that.

873

We're capable of doing that.

874

We're already skilled to

875

do that.

876

We are the examples I said before

of our world doesn't go away.

877

We don't not need HR people anymore.

878

We just need to understand that HR people

are organizational transformation people.

879

They're the ones who understand

people and structure.

880

They put it together for the future

881

of the business.

882

And you don't have to wait

to be perfect with that, too.

883

That's going to be my more gentle

lean in for anyone listening.

884

Don't get paralyzed by the

concern of fear of being obsolete.

885

Don't get paralyzed by when you put

out initial communication and you

886

get a lot of pushback or feedback.

887

People are scared.

888

Start small.

889

Iterate fast.

890

Lead from your seat, right?

891

That's cultural

transformation 101, period.

892

It applies here.

893

And not just the CTO, not just the

Innovation Lead, not the new Chief AI

894

Officer, you, the Chief People Officer,

the CHRO, the Director of HR, the

895

Director of People Development, I don't

care what you call yourself, you are

896

empowered and capable to help people

transform and you have the mindset,

897

curiosity, and courage to do it.

898

So go do it.

899

Thomas: I think that's the

greatest place as any to end with

900

that optimistic call to action

901

for all the HR leaders out there

today, as well as those who are just

902

coming into the workforce and are

interested in the function because

903

there's a lot of opportunity.

904

It will just look different

from what it has been.

905

And I love the continuity that

you're bringing to the conversation

906

around how leadership is constant

907

throughout these many different

technological transformations

908

and some of the core meta

skills that are really necessary

909

are coming even more to

the fore in this AI era.

910

I think this is pretty enlightening.

911

And I think there are

a lot of tips out there

912

for leaders and practitioners

out there alike.

913

Thank you for all these

nuggets of insight, Tara.

914

With all that said, I'm going

to say goodbye to everyone.

915

Thank you for following along.

916

Good luck as you future-proof your own

organizations, your own HR functions,

917

and I'll see you on the next one.

918

Thanks, Tara.

919

Tara: Thank you.

920

Thanks for joining us on this

episode of Future Proof HR.

921

If you like the discussion, make

sure you leave us a five star

922

review on the platform you're

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923

Or share this with a friend or colleague

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924

See you next time as we keep our pulse on

how we can all thrive in the age on AI.