Future of HR and AI: The Mindset and Skills You Need Now

Tara: 00:00:00

The future of HR has to be more towards organizational

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development.

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It needs to be around organizational

transformation, understanding the output

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and the vision of the business and how

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how we empower our people to get there.

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That is the role of HR.

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Thomas Kunjappu: They keep

telling us that it's all over.

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For HR, the age of AI is upon

us, and that means HR should

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be prepared to be decimated.

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We reject that message.

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The future of HR won't be handed to us.

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Instead, it'll be defined by those

ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.

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Future Proof HR invites these builders to

share what they're trying, how it's going,

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what they've learned, and what's next.

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We are committed to arming HR

with the AI insights to not

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just survive, but to thrive.

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Thomas: Hello and welcome to the

Future Proof HR podcast, where we

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explore how forward-thinking HR leaders

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are preparing for disruption

and redefining what it means to

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lead people in a changing world.

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I'm your host, as always, Thomas Kunjappu,

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CEO of Cleary.

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Today we have Tara Blight, the

Chief People Officer at Infotech.

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Where she leads culture,

strategy, and communications.

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A dynamic speaker, consultant, and adjunct

faculty member of the University of

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Florida, Tara blends deep organizational

development expertise with a

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forward-looking lens on leadership and AI.

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She's spoken widely about future-ready

leadership in the age of AI and

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believes that integrating generative

technologies with human-centered skills

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isn't just possible, it's essential.

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So let's get into it and

welcome Tara to the podcast.

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Tara: Hi, happy to be here.

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Thomas: So tell me a little bit about

the concept of future ready leadership

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that you've been talking about.

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What is this all about?

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Tara: Yeah.

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So you said my background is

people, culture, communications.

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It is, but really it's

transformation, right?

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And so this to me is

very aligned with that.

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At Infotech,

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I have the privilege of

embedding AI into our strategy.

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It's part of our OKRs.

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I'm one of the executive team

who's focused on that strategy.

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But for me, the heart of this

work is simple right now.

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And the transformation itself is simple.

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AI doesn't make us less human.

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It makes us more human.

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And that within itself, and I know you

like to potentially debate a little.

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I'm OK with starting there.

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Like I've been talking about this

for a while before it became trendy,

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if you were, because history shows

every technological revolution

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right now resets the skills we need.

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And so when you're coming from

an organizational standpoint,

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you're coming from a people

standpoint, my expertise, you need

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to understand that pattern repeats.

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But the leaders who lean in earlier

are the ones that thrive longer.

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So that's where I'm really

coming from with that.

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Thomas: Awesome.

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Tell me more about that.

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If you're comparing it to historical

trends, tell me about these other

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waves that we've gone through and

that you like to compare this to.

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Tara: Yeah.

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First, let me bring you back

to one of my favorite studies.

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talk about this study a lot when I speak.

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I don't think I've talked about

it on a podcast lately, though.

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This would be the right time to do it.

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And George Land was a psychologist.

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He was hired by NASA in 1968.

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He was hired to predict future astronauts.

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He conducted a longitudinal study and

he showed that 98% of five-year-olds,

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56% of 10-year-olds, I think I

want to say it was like 13% of

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15-year-olds, 2% of adults were

creative geniuses based on this study.

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What he concluded at the end wasn't future

astronauts, but what he concluded is that

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creativity is learned

and it can be unlearned.

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And that what happens at some point in

our age and our as we age, we as adults

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stop asking that age old question.

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And yes, that is my favorite book, right?

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So I still come back to when

people ask me for a book,

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I'm like, five why, start with why.

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It's a curiosity piece.

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It's a skillset piece.

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And over our lifetimes, we

are often, as human beings,

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told to stop asking questions.

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Boxes are drawn around us.

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Frameworks are put into place.

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And eventually, someone that

we look up to, someone that

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matters, tells us to stop asking.

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And we stop learning.

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We stop being curious.

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But my premise when it comes

to AI and with that technology

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advancement, and I will talk

about a little bit of where we've

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seen it before, is if creativity

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is learned, it can be relearned, right?

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And our job in the age of AI

is to reawaken that curiosity,

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that creativity.

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What motivates me most is not just

the future-proofing of companies,

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we're future-proofing people.

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And that's the leadership's

most urgent mandate right

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now.

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Going back to your point, I

could go back to Socrates, right?

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So if I'm going back to the really old,

I love to talk about Socrates, didn't

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believe you should write things down.

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He felt that if you wrote things down,

that it would be a crutch for people.

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They wouldn't think as strongly.

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It would be too obvious.

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The only reason we know anything

about his writing is because

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Aristotle wrote it down for him.

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We come back to future today, look at the

internet when it came out and the number

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of executives that were against that.

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The printing press, any kind

of technological advancement in

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our history has gotten pushback.

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Has gotten the same thing we're

seeing today when it comes

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to AI, has gotten criticism.

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And I'm not saying that healthy criticism

isn't important, but we have but we have

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to put ourselves in that standpoint first

if we're talking about future-proofing

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our workforce moving forward.

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Thomas: That's a great point.

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That reminds me of the MIT study that

came out a couple months ago about

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the idea that there's some early

indications that use of AI is getting

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our brains more stagnant, right?

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Because we're relying more on it.

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But that's a similar, to your point,

similar way that people have, if not

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derided, at least had some feedback

around initially in society when

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any new technology comes around.

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You're Googling it.

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And man, back in my day, I had

to figure it out myself and

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look it up and know where to

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go with the Dewey Decimal

System and the library.

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But let's talk a little bit specifically

more about leadership, right?

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You're talking a little bit

about the leadership angle and

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future-ready leadership this age.

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Do you think your thoughts about this

has shifted any with the rise of LLMs?

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You've been talking

about this for a while.

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So do you think it's

shifted with the rise of AI?

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Or is it just another ingredient

that we need to keep in mind

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as we think about leadership?

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Tara: So if we go back to the context

piece that you just put, and then

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square it in your question about

leadership in particular, each wave of

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disruption is compressing time, right?

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So it took a hundred years for electricity

to scale, depending on what measure

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you use by that, for it to truly scale,

meaning like adoption, like understanding,

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like space, where it becomes the way that

we work, the way that we see the world

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versus the new thing that we need to

fight against or wonder or change around.

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It becomes the stage.

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standard.

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Smartphones, though, transformed

our lives in less than a

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decade, depending on the thing.

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And for you and don't know how old you

are, but like within our lifetime, we

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went from not having that to having that.

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And now it is the center of what we do.

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AI has gone from niche to mainstream in

under three years by a lot of arguments.

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Now mainstream, you're talking to

two people who are talking about

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AI all day, most of the time.

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And I know there are still

many resistors who are still

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like, what do you mean by that?

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And where does it look?

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But if you just look at the

facts, we got 700 million people

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as of last week, probably gone

up again on ChatGPT right now.

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700 million people using

it on a daily basis.

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So if I put those historical parallels

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back into the leadership context, I

like to use my favorite futurist's quote

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and his name's Maurice Conti.

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I also like to joke about this.

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So please bear with me.

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From what I can tell,

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you become a futurist

by just saying something

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in the right context enough

that comes to be true.

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And then they give you that title.

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So that's my ambition.

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I'm gonna do that enough

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that maybe one day I'll be a futurist.

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But Maurice Conti, in a talk about seven,

eight years ago now on a TED Talk, I want

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to go back, I want to say it was 2017.

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His famous quote was, the world's

going to change more in the next 20

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years than it has in the last 2000.

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And he was specifically talking about

agenic AI and before others were

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in 2017 and how it would plan, act,

adapt and become a digital colleague.

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So from a leadership standpoint,

my premise of leadership has

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always been situational leadership.

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And you can have a lot

of different definitions.

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There's a lot of good

leadership practice out there.

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I don't care if you call yourself a

servant leader or a situational leader.

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Your perspective is you lean into

the needs of your people and you

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understand the needs of the business.

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And you place people in a way where they

can transform themselves to be successful.

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Where we need to change leadership

mindset is the people and the resources

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that you're looking at, both in

regards to the different generations

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that are working side by side

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and the digital workers that

are now working side by side.

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And we also have to understand

that resistance is natural.

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Like the joke about Socrates

is real, but not every leap.

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It's the real barrier isn't tech.

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It's always mindset.

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And from a leadership standpoint,

it's how do we move that mindset?

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Mindset and practice is iteration.

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So at Infotech, for example, we don't

launch big bang type IA programs.

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We embed AI in our OKRs.

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We're running safe to fail pilots.

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We normalize learning loops.

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We turn on the magic sparkle icon

in every software somebody already

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trusts because when we don't know

what something is, we call it magic.

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And that magic right now is AI, right?

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That we make sure that functionality

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is not governed a way for

somebody being able to use it.

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And that allows for adoption that scales.

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Thomas: So there's a lot we

could dig into, but I'd love

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to talk about mindset analytics

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And also, I guess what you're seeing at

this moment in time across your peers.

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So what's something you're seeing in

the field, excitement, hesitation,

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implementation, curiosity, whatever that.

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What is the general mindset

you're seeing across HR leaders

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at the moment with regard to AI?

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Tara: Yeah, current state today.

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And I think that this will change because

it was different a couple of months ago.

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Current state today, I'm seeing a bit

of a divide between industries, right?

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So those that understand the clear

business argument of it, the valuation

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multipliers for those owned by private

equity, the GPD, 13 trillion type

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studies that are coming out on where

we're going to add to our global

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economy with what this can come.

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Those industries that are driven and

focused on those types of spaces, you're

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seeing embracing, you're seeing, and then

you're seeing adoption from technologists.

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I'm in the SaaS industry right now.

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I serve civil and infrastructure

construction though.

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So I think I'm a perfect guest for

that because I'm a SaaS company.

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So we're going to have a lot of

cautiously curious employees generally.

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Our customers are construction

traditionally and historically the

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hardest to transform mindsets in.

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In fact, it's the only industry

where we see a paradox where

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you introduce technology and

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productivity actually went down, not

up, because there was such resistance

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to this fear of being obsolete.

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And that was any type of just moving from

paper plans to putting them on a computer,

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not trusting that computer and

what it would do with that,

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still having people drive to

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turn in their bid because they

couldn't trust the system,

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even if it was more efficient,

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more effective, or more secure, right?

238

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Now we have that multiplied when we're

having to trust someone to compute

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with you, augment your learnings,

learn with you, something that replaces

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something we do with our mind versus

something we do with our hands.

241

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And we're seeing that same resistance.

242

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So to answer your question, in my

industry and technology, and for any

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of the HR leaders out there, would say

we're seeing a lot of cautious optimism.

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I'm hearing a little bit of frustration.

245

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I'm actually seeing this disconnect

of people pointing at my peers and

246

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or governance officers within an

organization and saying, I want to

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use it, but they won't turn it on.

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Or they're afraid of the security or data

or this agreement makes it difficult.

249

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of the security or a data or this

agreement makes it difficult.

250

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Or you have them turning it on in a

way where without the proper support,

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and that's not training, but the proper

support for people to iterate with it.

252

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And sometimes some of these software

companies are turning it on before

253

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it's actually been built out and they

have a negative impression of it.

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And then they don't go

back and try it again.

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And then you have industries

and side, I'm the Chief People

256

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Officer for a tech company,

257

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but I also own a cocktail

bar and lounge on the side.

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In that industry, like I get that question

259

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a lot in the service

industry, are we seeing AI?

260

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Yeah, we're seeing it in the backend.

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We're

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seeing it in different tools.

263

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Is it going to start

making drinks for people?

264

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It's not, but adoption at a

different scale in a different space,

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but you see it used in personal

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life.

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And you're also seeing that

divide of acceptance in

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personal life when the stakes

269

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aren't as high and not as

much in the professional.

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And lastly, I would say in education, and

this is where I really get on a soapbox,

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we see what we've seen for any was we're

making it, we're putting a stigma on it.

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We're having teachers immediately

flag people for cheating

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if there's any evidence of

using AI because there's a whole

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now product line that can just

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check if you used AI.

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But they don't know how you use it, but

we're assuming the worst intentions.

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We're assuming you used it to write

what you should have written yourself

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instead of using it to augment your

learning and enhance, which is what

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it could be actually used to do.

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But then I get the debate, like how

do you make sure students don don't

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do that the same way that you do in

any type of learning, you give them

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that ability to lean in and move with

something and to iterate with it.

283

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And you'll see that augmentation.

284

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In the workforce, though, lastly, my

comment is I still am hearing from some

285

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workers, not so much in the technology

industry, but in the retail industry,

286

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the service industry and the commodity

industry a lot right now in present

287

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tense, that it that there's a fear of

288

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that people feeling like they will look

as lazy if they're known to use it.

289

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So they're using it on

290

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the side, they're using it on

their personal device, they're

291

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pulling it out of their office

292

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computer, and they're doing it on the side

and using it because they're interested.

293

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They think they can augment it,

but it hasn't been accepted yet or

294

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they're worried about the stigma that

will be assigned to them if they do.

295

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I will tell you, though,

that will work itself out.

296

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We're three to four months away

from that's going to go away.

297

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This is a typical hiccup in that process

and you're going to have fast movers and

298

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slower movers, but you have to adopt it.

299

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You have to move forward.

300

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Thomas: That was a conversation

about several different things.

301

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So I think what I'm hearing is that

specifically with adoption within

302

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HR, it changes based on industries.

303

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The ones that are technology forward

tend to both have the personnel who

304

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are curious and always looking at

and looking to adopt new things.

305

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And they tend to be have the personnel

who are curious and always looking

306

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at and looking to adopt new things.

307

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And they tend to be earlier

adopters, which is traditional.

308

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But then you also mentioned industries

that are like either private equity

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driven or have some kind of investment

thesis where there's an efficiency

310

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play on the book on the just on the

business side that drives adoption.

311

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And it's interesting that you mentioned,

it's almost like two different

312

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polar opposite responses to this.

313

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So in a lot of organizations with

knowledge workers top down, the

314

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company's looking for more adoption.

315

00:15:28,593 --> 00:15:31,073

Hey, everyone, please use it

more, experiment more, let's get

316

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people moving in that direction.

317

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But you're saying sometimes

with service workers and

318

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other in several other industries,

people are like who are doing it are

319

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actually hiding it because it's themes

culturally like it's actually not

320

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something you're it's feels akin to

321

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cheating.

322

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Yeah, almost.

323

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It's pretty bifurcated there.

324

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So I think all of this comes back to that

325

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comment you made about mindset, right?

326

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Like ultimately, it's a mindset shift.

327

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So what role

328

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culture play in scaling this mindset

shift across the organization?

329

00:16:00,373 --> 00:16:00,563

Tara: Yeah.

330

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So let me, the biggest, the biggest,

like how do we create safe environments?

331

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How do we appreciate people?

332

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How do we set them up for success?

333

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How do we make sure that the

organization is lifting together?

334

00:16:12,318 --> 00:16:15,263

One of the comments that we talk

about in innovation, and this is

335

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a talk that's been around for all.

336

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So let's change the term here from

digital transformation and AI, which

337

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is the innovation of the moment.

338

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And it is quite the

innovation of the moment.

339

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It's a transformational innovation.

340

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It's something that will

change the way we do work.

341

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And it does deserve that

type of level of emphasis.

342

00:16:32,413 --> 00:16:36,283

But if we talk back to, say,

15 years ago in my profession,

343

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the big talk, and you started

344

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to see these chief innovation

officers be created, and this idea

345

00:16:42,043 --> 00:16:43,633

of innovation at a different level.

346

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And the basic concept behind that,

which I do buy into very much,

347

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and we see companies that succeed

because of it, is if you're not

348

00:16:49,983 --> 00:16:51,188

experimenting, you're eroding.

349

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There's enough pressure.

350

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There's enough notice to see

people on the T500 right now.

351

00:16:58,193 --> 00:17:03,223

They used to be companies used to

be on that for 65 years on average,

352

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if they with the same standard value

proposition, that was back in 1950, 1960.

353

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But today,

354

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you're lucky if you're on that

for the 12th, if you don't

355

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completely transform the way you do

356

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business.

357

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And it's not because of the tech, it's

because the people need to transform.

358

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And we got to move out of that

kind of safety and stagnation

359

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standpoint to moving that mindset.

360

00:17:25,973 --> 00:17:28,502

And that so culture in

regards to, to answer

361

00:17:37,643 --> 00:17:44,873

the space, giving them the ability

to iterate, giving them the space to

362

00:17:44,873 --> 00:17:48,683

ask questions, to learn from where

they are, to lean in from their seat

363

00:17:48,693 --> 00:17:50,093

and to lean in from their position.

364

00:17:50,503 --> 00:17:52,103

I'll give a real-time example.

365

00:17:52,103 --> 00:17:55,783

I did a presentation for my

organization two weeks ago and it was

366

00:17:55,783 --> 00:17:59,033

well-received, but one of the questions

that came out of it was because

367

00:18:00,043 --> 00:18:02,473

say that jobs are being eliminated.

368

00:18:02,553 --> 00:18:04,213

I'm not going to take that.

369

00:18:04,213 --> 00:18:05,343

That is jobs are being eliminated.

370

00:18:05,343 --> 00:18:07,033

But opportunities are not.

371

00:18:07,533 --> 00:18:11,593

AI will create more opportunities,

more jobs, more new jobs than

372

00:18:11,603 --> 00:18:13,663

it eliminates without a doubt.

373

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People then take that and say,

yeah, but I don't want to be

374

00:18:16,473 --> 00:18:17,523

a machine learning engineer.

375

00:18:17,593 --> 00:18:19,393

You don't have to be a

machine learning engineer.

376

00:18:19,843 --> 00:18:22,863

We're not replacing engineers with AI.

377

00:18:22,873 --> 00:18:27,033

We're replacing engineers

who don't use AI with

378

00:18:27,033 --> 00:18:27,953

engineers who do.

379

00:18:29,163 --> 00:18:30,893

We're not replacing customer service.

380

00:18:30,903 --> 00:18:34,933

It's still a job that's needed, but the

skill sets that you need and how you go

381

00:18:34,933 --> 00:18:38,703

about your job and the tools that you

need do need to adapt in this space.

382

00:18:39,143 --> 00:18:40,968

So to adjust that culture, you need

to adapt in this space so to adjust

383

00:18:40,968 --> 00:18:44,203

that culture you need to create

transformation in the structures

384

00:18:44,243 --> 00:18:46,193

the systems the communication and

385

00:18:49,283 --> 00:18:49,343

Thomas: the space.

386

00:18:49,343 --> 00:18:53,493

Yeah so but it is right for people to

jump to that hey like I'm not an i'm not

387

00:18:53,493 --> 00:18:57,433

an engineer i'm not going to be creating

new models or work for one of the major

388

00:18:57,433 --> 00:18:59,313

like LLM kind of companies, right?

389

00:18:59,693 --> 00:19:05,243

Are you saying that the roles will

exist in some form going forward, just

390

00:19:05,253 --> 00:19:07,493

that the, how you do it will change?

391

00:19:07,503 --> 00:19:07,903

Tara: Yeah.

392

00:19:07,933 --> 00:19:11,453

I say that the professions will exist in

some form, I guess, if I'm going to make

393

00:19:11,453 --> 00:19:15,803

it broader, the roles themselves, there

are many roles that will seek to, seek,

394

00:19:16,413 --> 00:19:18,893

cease to exist as they are defined today.

395

00:19:19,268 --> 00:19:23,538

And this is, this is an

artifact of my systems, of us.

396

00:19:23,538 --> 00:19:26,778

If I'm talking to my other HR leaders

out there, we've created the biggest

397

00:19:26,778 --> 00:19:29,368

artifact that's the problem here,

which is called the job description.

398

00:19:29,388 --> 00:19:32,108

And we fought for years how

employees don't want to have

399

00:19:32,108 --> 00:19:32,850

other duties as assigned.

400

00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:34,888

If it's not on their job

description, they don't do it.

401

00:19:34,888 --> 00:19:36,038

That can't work anymore.

402

00:19:36,358 --> 00:19:40,958

Your job needs to change and adapt at

a pace that we've never seen before.

403

00:19:40,958 --> 00:19:42,468

That agility and that ability

404

00:19:42,468 --> 00:19:45,748

to adapt to the needs of your

environment and to the needs

405

00:19:45,748 --> 00:19:47,098

of your role needs to shift.

406

00:19:47,128 --> 00:19:48,848

But the professions don't change.

407

00:19:48,848 --> 00:19:50,458

What I'm saying, there still a need?

408

00:19:50,458 --> 00:19:52,808

And I can take any profession,

I can take any industry.

409

00:19:53,018 --> 00:19:56,788

Will there still be a need for

a sales and marketing role,

410

00:19:56,788 --> 00:19:58,758

a customer success type role?

411

00:19:58,798 --> 00:20:00,368

And I'm using SaaS because that's easy.

412

00:20:00,368 --> 00:20:01,153

That's coming off in my head.

413

00:20:01,153 --> 00:20:04,458

A retail management type role, a

supply chain management type role.

414

00:20:04,458 --> 00:20:05,038

Yes.

415

00:20:05,378 --> 00:20:09,568

So most people pick a profession

that's broader, but the way they

416

00:20:09,568 --> 00:20:11,928

go about that would change, right?

417

00:20:12,898 --> 00:20:16,298

Let's take the one that is the

most, I think, debated right now.

418

00:20:16,308 --> 00:20:18,168

Do we need content specialists anymore?

419

00:20:18,218 --> 00:20:18,828

get that a lot.

420

00:20:19,438 --> 00:20:24,058

Those exceptional writers, those creative

geniuses that just had a way with words

421

00:20:24,418 --> 00:20:25,908

that we couldn't create ourselves.

422

00:20:25,908 --> 00:20:27,688

And we hired people to be able to do that.

423

00:20:27,718 --> 00:20:29,128

I would say, absolutely, we do.

424

00:20:30,078 --> 00:20:34,668

Is it fair, though, to expect

probably a four to five time

425

00:20:34,678 --> 00:20:38,428

multiplier today if they were using

tools correctly in their output?

426

00:20:38,928 --> 00:20:39,283

Yes.

427

00:20:39,283 --> 00:20:43,768

Those people are already better

skilled to continue to do the job we

428

00:20:43,768 --> 00:20:46,958

still need the output in than anyone

else they could hire in that role.

429

00:20:47,008 --> 00:20:48,768

But they need to adapt how they do it.

430

00:20:48,798 --> 00:20:52,388

And they need to use the

skills of today to do that and

431

00:20:52,388 --> 00:20:53,568

understand what that looks like.

432

00:20:54,008 --> 00:20:56,908

And I think you're going to see

education follow suit and how we

433

00:20:56,908 --> 00:21:01,248

teach what that looks like and

how we augment and how we curate.

434

00:21:01,288 --> 00:21:02,438

And that gets into the skill

435

00:21:02,438 --> 00:21:04,568

set question, but hopefully that answers.

436

00:21:05,998 --> 00:21:08,128

This has been a fantastic

conversation so far.

437

00:21:08,368 --> 00:21:11,158

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

438

00:21:11,398 --> 00:21:14,068

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

439

00:21:14,068 --> 00:21:17,248

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

440

00:21:17,728 --> 00:21:20,338

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

441

00:21:20,338 --> 00:21:22,348

can all thrive in the age of ai.

442

00:21:22,708 --> 00:21:25,693

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

443

00:21:26,123 --> 00:21:26,733

community.

444

00:21:27,358 --> 00:21:28,198

Now back to the show.

445

00:21:28,664 --> 00:21:28,944

Thomas: It does.

446

00:21:28,944 --> 00:21:29,544

I think that's great.

447

00:21:29,544 --> 00:21:31,444

So I like to switch to a

448

00:21:31,584 --> 00:21:35,204

slightly different topic, which is a

framework that you have based on us

449

00:21:35,204 --> 00:21:37,374

both being fans of 90s video games.

450

00:21:38,019 --> 00:21:39,479

Tell me more about this framework.

451

00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:40,459

Tara: Yeah.

452

00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:40,809

Okay.

453

00:21:40,809 --> 00:21:43,199

And he's talking about,

454

00:21:43,199 --> 00:21:45,819

because I talked for all those listening,

I gave him a little heads up on this.

455

00:21:45,819 --> 00:21:48,329

It's a newer one that I try to

put together because I'm asked

456

00:21:48,379 --> 00:21:50,139

a lot, what are the skills?

457

00:21:50,369 --> 00:21:53,559

And I've had the skills for a minute,

but I recently put it in a framework

458

00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:55,799

and I called it the AC cheat code.

459

00:21:56,179 --> 00:21:57,899

Part fun, part serious, right?

460

00:21:57,909 --> 00:22:01,819

Yes, it's my nod to our 90s babies

out there who remember video games.

461

00:22:01,819 --> 00:22:04,369

And when you know the right

code, you can unlock the whole

462

00:22:04,369 --> 00:22:06,629

new level in the age of AI.

463

00:22:06,669 --> 00:22:10,789

This is the code that will help upscale

that will help people unlock that level.

464

00:22:10,829 --> 00:22:12,339

And the formula is simple.

465

00:22:12,419 --> 00:22:14,269

It's action plus connection.

466

00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:16,849

And then playing with A's here.

467

00:22:16,849 --> 00:22:17,869

So I use the different names.

468

00:22:17,879 --> 00:22:20,849

Action includes agility,

agency, adaptability.

469

00:22:21,289 --> 00:22:24,029

Connection is communication,

curation, and curiosity.

470

00:22:24,709 --> 00:22:26,689

As I said, my most important

skill that I've talked about

471

00:22:26,689 --> 00:22:28,749

for 20 years, curiosity, that

472

00:22:28,769 --> 00:22:30,009

innovation skill set.

473

00:22:30,509 --> 00:22:33,019

These skills give us

that human edge, right?

474

00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,389

So they're not new, though.

475

00:22:35,499 --> 00:22:37,259

And that's where I want us to pause on.

476

00:22:37,269 --> 00:22:39,179

Like, these are not new skills.

477

00:22:39,179 --> 00:22:43,569

These are very similar to the emotional

intelligence is proven to be the

478

00:22:43,569 --> 00:22:45,589

most effective in leadership, not IQ.

479

00:22:45,589 --> 00:22:45,738

Look at what defines emotional

intelligence is proven to be the

480

00:22:45,738 --> 00:22:46,129

most effective in leadership, not IQ.

481

00:22:46,529 --> 00:22:48,679

Look at what defines

emotional intelligence.

482

00:22:48,679 --> 00:22:53,619

Those terms, those skills are also

very aligned with the highest in EQ.

483

00:22:54,139 --> 00:22:56,299

Agility is critical thinking at pace.

484

00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:02,439

Critical thinking has been a top five

skill in my profession of Fortune 500

485

00:23:02,459 --> 00:23:05,709

companies for people they're hiring

out of college across industries.

486

00:23:05,979 --> 00:23:08,141

Top five most important

skills for the last 25 years.

487

00:23:08,141 --> 00:23:08,440

It they're hiring out of college

across industries, top five most

488

00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:08,729

important skills for the last 25 years.

489

00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:10,409

It's never fallen out of the top five.

490

00:23:10,919 --> 00:23:13,499

The difference is at pace.

491

00:23:13,889 --> 00:23:17,359

We don't have the time anymore

to go into a room with a bunch

492

00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,229

of other smart people and take

493

00:23:19,229 --> 00:23:20,449

two weeks to make the decision.

494

00:23:20,449 --> 00:23:23,799

We have to make the best decision

we can, given the context we have

495

00:23:24,069 --> 00:23:25,599

and the tools available for us.

496

00:23:25,629 --> 00:23:26,249

And we have the

497

00:23:26,259 --> 00:23:29,769

perfect partner to do that

right now in what AI provides.

498

00:23:29,789 --> 00:23:31,269

And it's incredible at that.

499

00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:33,059

Decide fast, adapt quickly, move.

500

00:23:33,349 --> 00:23:34,529

Agency is ownership.

501

00:23:35,159 --> 00:23:37,929

Agency is that empowerment skill.

502

00:23:38,259 --> 00:23:42,589

It's making sure everyone sees that they

have the ability to lead from their seat.

503

00:23:42,619 --> 00:23:44,919

And that's what's also been

talking about for a while.

504

00:23:44,919 --> 00:23:46,929

When I say leadership, I

don't mean people manager.

505

00:23:46,929 --> 00:23:47,809

I don't mean title.

506

00:23:48,159 --> 00:23:50,729

I mean, taking an agency and ownership

507

00:23:50,809 --> 00:23:52,679

and accountability over your actions,

508

00:23:52,919 --> 00:23:54,269

what needs to be accomplished

509

00:23:54,269 --> 00:23:55,549

and where you're going to move it forward.

510

00:23:55,719 --> 00:23:57,179

That skill is critically important.

511

00:23:57,599 --> 00:23:59,949

Adaptability, ties with resilience.

512

00:23:59,949 --> 00:24:02,049

Resilience is a big word

that people have been used,

513

00:24:02,049 --> 00:24:04,179

but it's that flexibility across tools,

514

00:24:04,179 --> 00:24:05,699

across markets, across teams.

515

00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:09,739

And then connection,

communication, first and foremost.

516

00:24:10,129 --> 00:24:12,799

And yes, like this is, you

said this beforehand, and I am

517

00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,519

interested in your lens on this

before we prepped for this podcast.

518

00:24:16,329 --> 00:24:19,959

You wondered if the future HR leaders

needed to have a more technical mindset.

519

00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:23,959

I would say the future HR leaders have

to have more of a communicative mindset

520

00:24:23,959 --> 00:24:27,359

that they're already highly skilled at.

521

00:24:27,629 --> 00:24:31,109

They do have to have a systems

framework to understand their

522

00:24:31,109 --> 00:24:33,159

ability to influence transformation.

523

00:24:33,159 --> 00:24:36,039

But communication in today's

world at a simple standpoint

524

00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:37,829

is like prompt clarity, right?

525

00:24:38,199 --> 00:24:42,879

I think it was HBR's recent

study, it came out January, 40%

526

00:24:42,899 --> 00:24:46,839

productivity boost when humans and

AI collaborate effectively together.

527

00:24:47,739 --> 00:24:50,699

And I do think you brought up

that MIT one that I'm always,

528

00:24:50,729 --> 00:24:51,979

you can always make a study

529

00:24:52,249 --> 00:24:53,329

to match your aims.

530

00:24:53,929 --> 00:24:58,419

If you put the right box in

place, if you want to prove

531

00:24:58,809 --> 00:25:00,119

that people use it as a crutch,

532

00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,659

you can prove that people

use it as a crutch.

533

00:25:01,699 --> 00:25:04,589

I can also prove that for those

that are neurodivergent, it

534

00:25:05,219 --> 00:25:06,829

is an exceptional tool that

535

00:25:06,829 --> 00:25:10,339

allows them to speak in a language

they've never had before, both within

536

00:25:10,339 --> 00:25:11,819

a classroom and within the workplace.

537

00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:13,699

So come at me on that one, right?

538

00:25:13,699 --> 00:25:14,579

I'm going to come at you.

539

00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:16,159

Curation is the next one.

540

00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:17,509

And yes, it is discernment,

541

00:25:17,509 --> 00:25:20,649

and I needed to see, but

it's curation, right?

542

00:25:20,649 --> 00:25:22,789

It's that judgment speech.

543

00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:27,959

And when I say by that, that human

nature of we have tools that are going to

544

00:25:27,959 --> 00:25:34,189

provide us exceptional speed in regards

to how we can now approach an answer.

545

00:25:34,189 --> 00:25:38,209

But we still need to be able to

check it and align it and space it.

546

00:25:38,209 --> 00:25:41,579

So that discernment, that curation

skill of what is good information

547

00:25:41,579 --> 00:25:44,779

and what is bad information and

what do I ask next and where do I go

548

00:25:44,779 --> 00:25:46,779

from here is critically important.

549

00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:50,119

And then lastly, curiosity, which

I think I've said that enough.

550

00:25:50,299 --> 00:25:53,454

Thomas: Yeah, I think this is a

great framing because, and you're

551

00:25:53,454 --> 00:25:54,519

getting to some of the corollaries

552

00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:57,429

that come from this, which is

that these are all metacognition

553

00:25:57,429 --> 00:25:59,159

skills, which pre-existing

554

00:25:59,159 --> 00:26:03,629

the AI revolution have been

useful for any kind of innovative

555

00:26:03,629 --> 00:26:05,839

culture or for just highly

556

00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:09,664

valued folk in the workplace, right?

557

00:26:10,069 --> 00:26:10,319

Yeah.

558

00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:12,849

And there is this, I don't know

if it's a tension, but the concept

559

00:26:12,879 --> 00:26:15,429

of mastery of these, you're

560

00:26:15,439 --> 00:26:21,059

good if as long as you're curious, you're

agile, like all these kind of meta lenses

561

00:26:21,489 --> 00:26:24,894

to look at how you come into the

workplace versus the technical

562

00:26:25,444 --> 00:26:29,944

skillset of being a specialist or

having specific knowledge using a

563

00:26:29,944 --> 00:26:32,614

technology or, I don't know, knowing how

564

00:26:32,614 --> 00:26:36,934

to read a P&L statement for a public

company and understanding free cash flow

565

00:26:36,934 --> 00:26:41,494

or understanding how to run Google ads

to generate demand for a SaaS product.

566

00:26:41,734 --> 00:26:46,404

And these are, there are skills that are

obviously like valuable, but arguably

567

00:26:46,574 --> 00:26:51,334

the cheat codes that you're talking

about are living at a level above that.

568

00:26:51,544 --> 00:26:51,944

But the real

569

00:26:51,944 --> 00:26:55,274

question that I wrestle with is, is

that really all that matters more?

570

00:26:55,274 --> 00:26:57,514

Because you use things like

you talk about judgment, right?

571

00:26:57,544 --> 00:26:58,494

And coming in.

572

00:26:58,494 --> 00:27:00,994

So when you're at least

with this day and age of

573

00:27:01,084 --> 00:27:06,174

where LLMs are going to that productivity

boost, the folks who understand

574

00:27:06,174 --> 00:27:11,134

and have some technical expertise

or knowledge on their domain, and

575

00:27:11,144 --> 00:27:14,124

also have those metacognition skills

that you're talking about, if that

576

00:27:14,124 --> 00:27:15,724

combines, now it's a superpower.

577

00:27:15,744 --> 00:27:20,034

Now you're really cooking with gas

and making, you're getting way more

578

00:27:20,454 --> 00:27:23,664

outcomes and output in a 40-hour

work week than someone who doesn't.

579

00:27:24,074 --> 00:27:28,109

But then I wonder if you don't, let's

say you're coming out of college and you

580

00:27:28,109 --> 00:27:31,439

don't really have real world experience

in a particular domain, you're trying to

581

00:27:31,439 --> 00:27:33,709

solve that problem, just leveraging AI.

582

00:27:34,869 --> 00:27:35,999

I wonder how far you can go.

583

00:27:35,999 --> 00:27:39,119

And maybe that'll keep

stretching out into over time.

584

00:27:39,489 --> 00:27:43,779

But that's a bit of the tension that

I see, like how much is technical

585

00:27:43,779 --> 00:27:47,719

and domain expertise still going to

be relevant, along with these skill

586

00:27:47,719 --> 00:27:52,569

sets that help you theoretically

acquire any of those over time?

587

00:27:52,609 --> 00:27:52,879

Tara: Yeah.

588

00:27:52,879 --> 00:27:53,759

Is it the tension though?

589

00:27:54,004 --> 00:27:54,529

It is.

590

00:27:54,539 --> 00:27:56,359

It's the tension, but

it's also the opportunity.

591

00:27:56,759 --> 00:27:57,389

And so

592

00:27:59,789 --> 00:28:04,949

it was a World Economic

Forum study late last year.

593

00:28:05,149 --> 00:28:08,079

It said 44% or 50%.

594

00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:09,299

I think that was the 44%.

595

00:28:09,299 --> 00:28:11,349

Skills will change in the next five years.

596

00:28:11,779 --> 00:28:13,489

And the skills it pointed out.

597

00:28:13,489 --> 00:28:15,189

And so I'm not disagreeing with that.

598

00:28:15,189 --> 00:28:18,049

I'm also saying there's six core

skills that I just told you about that

599

00:28:18,049 --> 00:28:21,419

have been the things that make people

different for quite a few years and

600

00:28:21,419 --> 00:28:23,839

are the ones that are going to set you

up for success in this environment.

601

00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,919

And I just, I, hopefully I can

make that point, but they are meta.

602

00:28:26,919 --> 00:28:26,949

Right.

603

00:28:26,949 --> 00:28:27,249

point.

604

00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,889

The ones that they're pointing out

are ones that we knew were coming.

605

00:28:30,169 --> 00:28:33,639

We were coming at the preface

of digital transformation.

606

00:28:33,639 --> 00:28:34,799

That's what you were getting at.

607

00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:40,819

It's more like digital literacy and

data acumen in a way that we've never

608

00:28:40,819 --> 00:28:43,049

seen before in almost every profession.

609

00:28:43,379 --> 00:28:43,949

Professions

610

00:28:43,949 --> 00:28:47,449

that before you could say, I'm more

of a word person than a number person.

611

00:28:47,484 --> 00:28:50,124

You don't get to make

that delineation anymore.

612

00:28:50,464 --> 00:28:55,264

But the opportunity there is a mindset

shift, coming back to your first question.

613

00:28:55,264 --> 00:28:59,984

And as a person who focuses

on people and the incredible

614

00:28:59,984 --> 00:29:02,104

ability that human beings bring

615

00:29:02,484 --> 00:29:04,474

in transforming something, you don't know.

616

00:29:04,594 --> 00:29:08,044

When a person does something, when they

come into the room, the stakes have

617

00:29:08,054 --> 00:29:11,674

changed because their lived experience,

their beliefs, their values, their

618

00:29:11,674 --> 00:29:15,064

space, their ability to change that

whole dynamic because of who they are.

619

00:29:15,064 --> 00:29:15,924

And you don't know what that is.

620

00:29:16,014 --> 00:29:16,924

You can make guesses.

621

00:29:16,924 --> 00:29:18,574

You can look at their

personality profiles.

622

00:29:18,734 --> 00:29:21,814

You can look at their backgrounds,

but they are unique humans.

623

00:29:21,834 --> 00:29:23,924

When A happens, B doesn't happen.

624

00:29:24,094 --> 00:29:27,384

And that makes us special,

but there is a mindset move.

625

00:29:27,394 --> 00:29:32,554

So the opportunity to me of that

distinct skillset, yes, we do need

626

00:29:32,554 --> 00:29:36,134

to understand the distinct skill sets

that are transforming in almost every

627

00:29:36,134 --> 00:29:41,894

profession and digital literacy,

technology, data, those types of things.

628

00:29:41,904 --> 00:29:43,284

I do not take away from that.

629

00:29:43,304 --> 00:29:45,234

We should be teaching

that in every curriculum.

630

00:29:45,234 --> 00:29:46,954

And you've seen a groundswell for that.

631

00:29:46,984 --> 00:29:50,384

That was the moving from

arts to STEM type idea.

632

00:29:50,394 --> 00:29:54,044

It was a little bastardized in my

opinion, but it doesn't mean arts

633

00:29:54,054 --> 00:29:57,904

aren't important and valuable and

special and still culturally what makes

634

00:29:57,904 --> 00:30:00,944

us human, but there's a greater move.

635

00:30:01,184 --> 00:30:07,374

So simplistic, like I like to use

terms sometimes, if we celebrated

636

00:30:07,374 --> 00:30:11,874

the problem solvers in the past,

we're going to celebrate now in every

637

00:30:11,874 --> 00:30:13,854

profession, the problem finders.

638

00:30:14,594 --> 00:30:17,604

If we celebrated the ones that

had the answer to the question,

639

00:30:17,614 --> 00:30:18,414

we're going to celebrate

640

00:30:18,414 --> 00:30:21,154

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