91:: Applying Traditional Chinese Medicine practices with Dr. Felice Chan (TCM at the Olympics and looking beyond the "Chinese Baddie" trend!)

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Let's Wellness Girl chat about traditional Chinese

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medicine, the Olympics, and

the recent Chinese batty trend.

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Welcome back to Wellness Exists, the Pod.

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I'm your host, Dr.

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Kelsey Vick, a board certified

orthopedic doctor, physical therapy,

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and a pelvic floor physical therapist.

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I was lucky enough back in

June to interview a traditional

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Chinese medicine practitioner, Dr.

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Valise Chan, and over the last few months

that episode has really popped off and

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I have a feeling it is because of this

Chinese batty trend that we are seeing

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everywhere on social media at the time.

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I'm recording this episode.

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The Olympics are still going on.

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We're about to wrap them.

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And so I also got to wondering about the

differences in how elite female athletes

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train and approach their performance

fueling hydration recovery in cultures

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that utilize traditional Chinese medicine

practices a little more frequently

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than we do here in these states.

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So I wanted to compare and contrast

that in addition to revisiting some

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of the traditional Chinese medicine.

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Practices and key tips and tricks that Dr.

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Valise shared with us back in June.

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So I am pre-recording this, and actually

when this episode is released, my

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husband and I will be on a trip in

Asia, which I am very excited about.

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So this is all sort of coming full circle.

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We also just entered the year of

the fire horse, So happy lunar New

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Year to all of those who celebrate.

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It's just the perfect time to

sort of dive into traditional

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Chinese medicine again, given.

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All that's happening in the world,

but also the time of year as we're

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entering this year of the fire horse.

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So let's bring it back to

the Chinese batty trend, if

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you guys haven't heard of it.

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It is basically this trend on social media

where a lot of people who have utilized

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traditional Chinese medicine practices

or Chinese practices in general, are

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starting to share their practices on.

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Social media in a fun way.

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So I've loved following the trend because

it's a lot of people sharing even their

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morning routines, like how their parents

and grandparents have inspired their

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Chinese batty morning routines, or how

different remedies for illnesses, how

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they approach those in their lives.

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And a lot of them have TCM or

traditional Chinese medicine practices

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as sort of the foundation behind them.

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with the Olympics going on right now at

the time of this recording, I thought

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it would be fun to also look at.

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How elite female athletes train,

utilizing both the Western medicine

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perspective, but then also looking into

female athletes who might also implement

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traditional Chinese medicine practices,

So I was able to reach out to Dr.

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Felice to get her take on how someone

like Eileen Guo might approach her

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training utilizing TCM practices in

addition to some of the Western medicine

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training and practices I'm also very

excited to be going to a place that.

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Has these TCM practices sort

of built into their routine.

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And I'm thinking something so silly as

having something like soup for breakfast

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compared to my very typical Greek yogurt.

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And as Dr.

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Felice mentions, and we'll share

in this podcast episode, but warmth

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is really good for our digestion.

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So thinking of starting my morning

with something like a warm soup

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compared to a cold Greek yogurt and

seeing how I feel throughout that.

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Just change in my daily routine.

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I'm very excited for all of the warm,

cozy digestive assistance fueling that Dr.

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Felice emphasized in her

episode back in June.

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If you miss that episode,

I'll also leave it below.

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It was a wonderful episode,

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So I figured now is a great time to

also revisit it and just talk about

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how people who aren't used to applying

TCM practices into their lives.

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Someone like me has tried to shift things

a little bit to get the benefits of both.

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Maybe more of a western medicine

approach, but then also more of

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a traditional Chinese medicine

approach in her daily routines.

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So back in June, Dr.

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Feliz shared with us some of the basics

of traditional Chinese medicine when

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it comes to our health and wellness

by describing the TCM perspective

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on amenorrhea or a loss of a period.

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Dr. Felice Chan:

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I think it's easier to break down

from a Chinese one as a perspective

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what our vital substances are.

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So we have blood, we have qi, which is

this energy that courses through our

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body, through our brain system, and then

we also have Jing, which is our essence.

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And all of these components are integral.

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Parts of our reproductive system,

whether they're in the organ

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itself, in our meridian system.

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And when you overwork, let's say a

gymnast who is extremely athletic

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they're likely at a blood deficiency

and a Qi deficiency because of

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how much activity they're doing.

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And Chinese medicine is all about balance.

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And so when we focus too much on

losing this blood, or jing through

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activity, it becomes deficient.

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And so that's why someone

doesn't have a bleed, right?

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They're getting into their

reservoir that is less and less.

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And so Chinese medicine, the whole point

of it is to boost what is deficient.

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Essence translated to Jing in Chinese

is a component that is really.

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Important for our kidneys.

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So our kidneys hold this jing, and it's

almost like our genetic material that

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we're born with from our parents, but

also can be worked on in this lifetime.

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So there's two components.

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And so for example, if someone is

overworking, it gets into their qi,

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depletion gets into their blood,

and the last level is this Jing.

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And so when they get into this Jing,

they're essentially pulling into their

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. Genetic material, what they had before.

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And so what puts 'em in a reservoir

that is negative, essentially.

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And so to keep our jing

alive is so important.

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That's why rest is important,

finding balance because we don't

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want to eat into this reservoir.

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That gives us our vitality

to help us age gracefully.

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Speaker 2: As a physical therapist,

I loved learning about how she

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views the human body and imbalances.

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My sister has actually helped

me the most when incorporating

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some of the TCM ideology when it

comes to my own menstrual cycle.

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The other day she was so kind

and knew that I was on my period

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and we were having family dinner.

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Her and my mom were in charge of the

grocery shopping, and when I showed up,

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she goes, oh, Kelsey, I got you steak

because I know that you're on your period

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and you're losing a lot of blood and iron.

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And so I thought the steak might be a

good protein for you to have for your

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meal knowing that you're on your period.

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TCM has a big focus on blood

building foods, especially during

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our periods, and I thought it was

a very sweet gesture for my sister.

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So I've been now trying to prioritize

more blood building foods, especially

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during those first few days of my

menstrual cycle when I am on my period.

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I love how traditional Chinese medicine

also focuses on using your body's natural

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rhythms, especially when it comes to

cortisol, sunlight, and circadian rhythms.

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I am on a selfish mission to decrease

the fear surrounding cortisol.

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We've done an entire series

on why cortisol is not the.

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Bad guy.

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She's really the misunderstood, mean girl.

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So I just loved when Dr.

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Felice mentioned her thoughts on

cortisol and not looking at it as this

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mean girl, but really understanding

when cortisol peaks throughout the day

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and when it should start to taper off,

and utilizing that knowledge to help

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align our rhythms with our natural

cortisol levels throughout the day.

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Dr. Felice Chan:

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Cortisol is something that we all need.

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It's what helps us get up in the morning.

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It gives us the energy, but I think

because we live in a world that is so fast

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paced, too much, cortisol is more common.

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So I would recommend movement that

is more gentle, more so for the

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movement of QI or this energy,

rather than for the increase of.

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Good stress because a, Chinese

medicine principle is that when

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there's free flow of qi, this energy,

there's no ailments that happen.

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And as soon as there's a blockage, that's

where we start to feel any health issues

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from headaches, period and imbalances.

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So these gentle movements could be

what we say, Qigong or Tai Chi in

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Chinese medicine, or it could be

yoga or Pilates, or even just walking

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the premise of Chinese medicine iss

balance, it's the yin and the yang.

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And in simple terms,

the yin is the dormancy.

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Our rest, it's nighttime.

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yang is our energy.

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Daytime, it's the morning, and so

it's almost relevant to cortisol,

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for example, when you wake

up, cortisol should be higher.

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Our energy should be elevated to give

us, the momentum for the day, but at

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the end of the day, it should return.

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And so in general, we should

see these energy spikes during

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the sun, when the sun is out.

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Versus at nighttime it's separate.

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So that's the general flow

of how our bodies should be.

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But we see issues when that is,

imbalance right when cortisol spikes

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at nighttime and someone can't sleep.

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Speaker 2: Dr.

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Fel also emphasized the

importance of warm foods for our

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digestive system and gut health.

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Dr. Felice Chan:

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So gut health is central

to our wellbeing, right?

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It's.

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In Chinese medicine, we say

it's a spleen in stomach.

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They're the first organs that

actually receive food and

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they have to be strong, right?

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And it's function of transforming

food and fluids, of pushing, the

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foods into our intestines to absorb.

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And when it's a little bit off

balance, that's when we start to

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see any gut issues from bloating,

digestive issues, stool issues.

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And my biggest tip from a Chinese

medicine standpoint is we have

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to listen to our body, right?

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We're human beings, we're nature

beings, and we're warm blooded.

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And because we're warm blooded,

warm food, warm drinks, room

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temp drinks are really vital to

creating a strong digestive system.

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There's the feminine, the masculine and

women are more feminine energetically as

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well, and meaning that we are more yin.

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Men are more yang.

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yang again is hot.

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Yin is cold.

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So when you put cold and cold, it

puts you further off balance, right?

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It makes you even colder.

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Hence why a lot of research now is

showing that women do need more warmth.

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And even just the way that our

body metabolizes and deals with

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homeostasis, we don't need.

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As cold.

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Actually cooking or stir frying,

let's say arugula or kale is something

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that triggers a lot of people.

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It's going to help your

body digest it easier.

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If someone does love raw arugula,

it's something that I eat

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actually quite often, but I.

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Take it outta the fridge, I let it

hit room temperature before I eat it.

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You can also add, a dressing

or components that are warmer.

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For example, I like to add a

ginger dressing to something

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that's raw because ginger is hot.

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So again, it's that, it's finding

that balance that works for your body.

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And it's not to say all raw food is bad

for people because it's really cold in

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nature and hard to digest, but if you

have digestive issues to limit, raw food.

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Cold smoothies, raw salads will

benefit you in the long run so

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that then you can consume it later.

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Speaker 2: I've noticed this actually

most recently in my own life when it

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comes to how I consume protein, especially

before and after a workout, I've actually

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really been favoring bone broth either

before or after, and actually heating

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up bone broth and something about it,

I don't know if you guys get this,

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but after exercise, my adrenaline's

going, like my sympathetic system.

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My fight or flight system is active

as it should be, and sometimes

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my digestion can suffer because

of that, but for some reason,

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incorporating this warm bone broth.

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Has really helped me to feel

even better after my workout.

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It almost sort of calms my system.

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It feels like this nice, warm.

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Internal hug, and I have no doubt

that falls in alignment with some of

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the TCM practices of warming foods

for our digestive systems that Dr.

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Felice was talking about

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related to digestion and gut health.

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I also wanted to bring it back to what Dr.

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Felice was saying when it comes to

travel tips and tricks, especially as

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my husband and I are about to go on a

very long plane ride and have a lot of

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air travel and train travel and just.

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A different routine in general.

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Dr. Felice Chan:

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It's funny, I just made a travel series

of a lot of issues that come about and.

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With constipation, there's two

main buckets of why that happens.

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It's an emotional stagnation, it's

our stress holding everything in.

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We don't wanna let go

because we're on, high alert.

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And the other thing is dehydration, right?

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It, there's too much

dryness in the intestines.

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Hence why we can't pass stools.

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And so for constipation, truly

the best thing, again, is to

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breathe and relax the body.

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Hence why people are just like, oh,

if I safe in my home again, I can

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pass stools because their body is,

surrendering and able to let go.

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The second thing is hydrate,

with electrolytes, with even.

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Celtic salt in their water, lemon

water, whatever they need to do

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to increase hydration, can help.

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And with bloating on the other hand,

my favorite is fresh ginger tea

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wherever I travel you can always

find ginger at supermarkets, right?

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And I'll literally get, with thumb

size, chop it up, boil it in hot

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water for about 10, 15 minutes

until it's spicy, and drink it.

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And that is one of the most

effective things to de bloat.

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Speaker 2: I really am going

to try to incorporate what Dr.

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Lee says when it comes to TCM practices to

help our travel and digestion throughout.

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So I'm trying to be more mindful

of all of her tips and tricks that

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she shared with us back in June.

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Taking time for breath work and really

tapping into my parasympathetic rest

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digest part of my nervous system.

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Then preparing my body

with warm water and ginger.

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I am definitely going to be packing some

of that ginger with me for the flight

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for before the flight, for after the

flight and throughout the trip just to

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help ease some of those uncomfortable

digestion symptoms that I often get.

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One of the things I am

more recently trying to.

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Implement when it comes to my fueling,

especially with this big protein push,

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this huge, huge protein push, I feel

like we can oftentimes forget the

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necessities of carbs, fats, different

micronutrients, just having the basics.

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So I've been trying to check the boxes

with, okay, am I getting my veggies, my

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fats, my fiber, my carbs, my protein?

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Am I checking the box when it

comes to certain categories

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for fueling that my body needs?

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From a TCM standpoint, I notice whenever

I am out of balance, in some way,

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I crave sugary or salty foods, and

if I'm not thinking about it, I can

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easily go grab a sweet or salty snack.

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However, if I have a well-balanced meal

where I'm checking all of those boxes

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and actually staying hydrated, getting

the fiber I need, getting the proteins,

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the carbs, the fats that I need, I notice

myself overall starting from this, this

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place of balance where I'm not trying to.

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Satiate myself with a sweet food

or a salty food because my body

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feels more balanced and in alignment

because of what I am fueling it with.

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In a similar way, if I choose a morning

workout, I'm much more likely to make

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those healthy choices throughout the day.

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Dr.

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Felice explains this phenomenon so

beautifully from a TCM perspective

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talking about how when we are balanced,

we are more likely to make choices

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that also foster that balance.

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Compared to when we're imbalanced,

we might make choices that don't

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necessarily bring our bodies

in our system back in harmony.

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Dr. Felice Chan:

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It's all about polarities and contrast.

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We don't know how to

feel good unless we feel.

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Pretty crappy at times, right?

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And so we know the imbalances.

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And so if you're starting the day

off with this higher vibration, you

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know your qi, this flow of energy is

moving through every part of your body.

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There's no stagnation.

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You're gonna seek out things

that match its vibration.

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Whether it's clean, whole foods, sitting

out in the sunshine, going for a walk,

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getting a coffee with a close friends.

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And as soon as something comes into

your day, whether it's a stressful

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call, I meeting some, unpredictable

things that happen all the time,

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your body's gonna tighten up.

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Your breath is gonna slow down.

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It's just gonna constrict.

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00:16:07,355 --> 00:16:12,395

And so then we're aware, oh, this is a

huge contrast of how good I was feeling.

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So again, it's tuning into how we

feel, how we are as humans, such

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as being extremely self of swear.

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Speaker 2: I love the idea of helping

to create this higher vibration for

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myself with my fueling movement, sleep,

hydration, recovery, so that I'm able

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00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:29,205

to make decisions from a full cup,

from a balanced state compared to an

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00:16:29,205 --> 00:16:31,065

empty cup and an imbalanced state.

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Now in addition to revisiting some of Dr.

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Felice's TCM tips, tricks and practices

that she shared with us back in June

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00:16:38,205 --> 00:16:42,795

and ways that I've tried to incorporate

some of them in my own life, I also

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00:16:42,795 --> 00:16:46,605

wanted to look at elite athlete training,

specifically the Olympics are going

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on right now, and I started wondering

how might someone like Eileen Goo

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approach her training with the use of

TCM practices compared to someone like.

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00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,490

Like me, if I were to be competing

at that level, or basically someone

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00:16:59,670 --> 00:17:05,250

who doesn't necessarily have this

generational use of TCM in her family.

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So I pulled a lot of the

research, a lot of commentaries,

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and just different articles.

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00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,270

So most of the research I saw

said elite athletes and countries

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00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:16,109

that have historically utilized

TCM now use a combination of TCM

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00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:17,819

and western medicine techniques.

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00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:20,910

So most often I found the use of TCM.

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During elite training to be related to

what I would consider tools, so things

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00:17:25,589 --> 00:17:29,700

like acupuncture, cupping, and I'm gonna

butcher this name so I apologize in

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00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:35,400

advance, but T Na Tana, which is basically

massage based techniques, effleurage Pet

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00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,060

Dressage and Friction massage, which we

actually learn 'em in school and we call

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00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:41,040

them Effleurage Pet Dressage and Friction.

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00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,490

So I'm assuming they're very similar,

but they're manual based techniques.

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00:17:44,790 --> 00:17:48,150

There was also some mention of

herbal remedies and medicine

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to help with pain and recovery.

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00:17:50,175 --> 00:17:54,375

But I thought it was interesting that

some of the herbal remedies in medicine,

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00:17:54,375 --> 00:17:59,295

it has to be in specific dosages or

else some of those remedies might pop

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00:17:59,295 --> 00:18:00,975

up positive on drug test screenings.

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00:18:00,975 --> 00:18:05,595

So there's currently research going

on right now for TCM practices in

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00:18:05,595 --> 00:18:10,185

herbal remedies specifically to know

what's the right dosage, where our

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00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:14,325

elite athletes can get the benefit

from some of these TCM herbal remedies.

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00:18:14,685 --> 00:18:18,195

But then also not be testing

positive on drug test screening.

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00:18:18,195 --> 00:18:21,765

So I thought that was a very interesting,

like next step for research and I,

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00:18:21,795 --> 00:18:22,875

it's already going on right now.

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00:18:22,875 --> 00:18:26,025

There was one that they mentioned

where any more than three days starts

331

00:18:26,025 --> 00:18:29,145

to show up positive, but three days

or less really helps with pain relief

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00:18:29,145 --> 00:18:30,345

and recovery for these athletes.

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00:18:30,345 --> 00:18:31,305

So I thought that was really cool.

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00:18:31,785 --> 00:18:34,725

There have been a few studies done

on sleep and elite athletes, both

335

00:18:34,725 --> 00:18:39,285

in a broader sense during training

and pre and post competition and

336

00:18:39,285 --> 00:18:40,635

among Chinese elite athletes.

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00:18:41,445 --> 00:18:46,095

Preparing for the Beijing 2022 Olympics

actually, so the long story short

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00:18:46,095 --> 00:18:49,365

is sleep is a factor that needs to

be addressed amongst all athletes,

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00:18:49,605 --> 00:18:52,965

regardless of western medicine

approach or combination approach of

340

00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:54,945

Western medicine and TCM practices.

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00:18:55,425 --> 00:18:59,355

In general, sleep is definitely worse

for athletes prior to competition,

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00:18:59,835 --> 00:19:03,975

but both the articles looking at sleep

from a broader perspective and sleep

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00:19:04,035 --> 00:19:08,265

in Chinese athletes, specifically

preparing for the Beijing 2022 Olympics.

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00:19:08,745 --> 00:19:09,675

All of them said.

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00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:13,110

Sleep was definitely affected based

on their competition schedule.

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It didn't matter whether or not

they utilized TCM practices or not.

347

00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:23,850

There were just poor sleep outcomes

before competition Compared to normal

348

00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:28,620

training and post competition, I wasn't

able to find any training schedules or

349

00:19:28,620 --> 00:19:32,550

nutritional diaries related to elite

athlete training in countries with TCM.

350

00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,460

A pillar of their health

and wellness approach, but I

351

00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:36,960

was able to reach out to Dr.

352

00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,530

Felice to see how someone

like Eileen Gu might utilize

353

00:19:40,530 --> 00:19:42,870

TCM in their normal routines.

354

00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:47,070

And before I asked her, I looked up Eileen

Gu specifically because I feel like she is

355

00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:49,650

a very prominent Chinese female athlete.

356

00:19:50,325 --> 00:19:52,785

And there wasn't much

information available.

357

00:19:52,785 --> 00:19:57,585

I was really hoping to find specifics of

nutrition, sleep performance training,

358

00:19:57,585 --> 00:20:01,365

all of the variables that go into it, and

how she might utilize TCM specifically.

359

00:20:01,605 --> 00:20:05,565

I wasn't able to find that, but it

does sound like she utilized TCM

360

00:20:05,565 --> 00:20:09,225

physicians during a New Zealand

training camp where the TCM physician

361

00:20:09,225 --> 00:20:13,635

performed orthopedic techniques to

help Eileen's back, and she utilized

362

00:20:13,635 --> 00:20:15,735

TCM in preparation for Beijing 2022.

363

00:20:16,335 --> 00:20:19,455

Where the TCM physician also

performed these orthopedic manual

364

00:20:19,455 --> 00:20:22,965

techniques to help her in her

training, recovery, and performance.

365

00:20:23,295 --> 00:20:26,955

So I'd love to learn more about this

if any of you guys have insight into

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how certain athletes utilize TCM more

specifically when it comes to their

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00:20:31,125 --> 00:20:33,465

training and their nutritional strategies.

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00:20:33,465 --> 00:20:35,985

I would love to know,

I did reach out to Dr.

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00:20:35,985 --> 00:20:38,535

Felice to get her thoughts on all of this.

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00:20:39,105 --> 00:20:40,995

I mentioned Eileen Goose specifically.

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00:20:40,995 --> 00:20:45,435

So she says, I would assume TCM

is integrated with weekly or more

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00:20:45,435 --> 00:20:48,285

acupuncture and cupping to help the

body rebuild, recover, and heal.

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00:20:48,855 --> 00:20:49,875

That would be my approach.

374

00:20:49,905 --> 00:20:52,875

Herbal medicine would also be included,

dependent on their root cause.

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00:20:53,115 --> 00:20:54,675

Hope this helps in happy lunar New Year.

376

00:20:54,675 --> 00:20:59,685

So I was so grateful for her insight

because I do feel like she is the expert.

377

00:20:59,685 --> 00:21:04,665

I am just trying to learn from her and

apply what she knows into my own life and

378

00:21:04,665 --> 00:21:08,745

also share that with you guys to Hopely,

give you some inspiration and ideas.

379

00:21:08,775 --> 00:21:12,795

If you guys are also like me and

not as familiar with TCM practices.

380

00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:17,190

But I thought her insight into elite

training specifically and specifically

381

00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:20,970

with Olympic athletes, and I did

mention Eileen Gu as an example.

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00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:26,580

So I think she was basing it off

of a female elite athlete who might

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00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:28,710

utilize TCM practices in her training.

384

00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:30,450

So this was a fun episode for me.

385

00:21:30,450 --> 00:21:34,620

I just feel like when I was coming

up with new ideas after the podcast

386

00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:38,010

festival, this one was one that I

really wanted to revisit just given

387

00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:41,580

the timing in my own life and the

world around us with the Olympics, with

388

00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:42,750

all of the trends that are going on.

389

00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:47,310

I thought it would be really, really

fun to dive into TCM again and look at

390

00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:51,030

some of the ways that I've been applying

what we learned back in June from Dr.

391

00:21:51,030 --> 00:21:54,990

Felice into my own life, and then also

look at elite athlete training with

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00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:58,140

TCM, because that is something that

I haven't even thought about, but.

393

00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,600

It's really, really cool to understand

for me, especially as like this exercise

394

00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:09,360

physiology, human body, geek, and

nerd to understand how these elite

395

00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,930

athletes might utilize an entirely new

viewpoint for me in their own training.

396

00:22:12,930 --> 00:22:19,710

So I appreciate you guys for nerding

out with me and for, I guess taking a

397

00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:24,150

more science backed health and wellness

perspective to this Chinese body trend.

398

00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:25,620

I hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

399

00:22:25,620 --> 00:22:27,750

Again, I'll leave all the links

below if you missed the one.

400

00:22:28,065 --> 00:22:30,045

Back in June, our episode with Dr.

401

00:22:30,045 --> 00:22:30,405

Felice.

402

00:22:30,405 --> 00:22:31,485

It was an amazing episode.

403

00:22:31,515 --> 00:22:36,105

I only clipped some of it today, but

she shares so much more information

404

00:22:36,105 --> 00:22:37,575

and education in that episode.

405

00:22:37,575 --> 00:22:39,105

So I'll leave that below

if you guys missed it.

406

00:22:39,345 --> 00:22:43,815

But thank you guys for listening, for

joining me, for nerding out with me

407

00:22:43,815 --> 00:22:46,875

today, and I'll see you guys on the

next episode of Wellness is the Pop.

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