The Power of Perseverance: Overcoming Challenges and Determination with Jerry Dugan

Artwork for podcast Living Fearless Today

Episode 239 • 21st November 2023 • Living Fearless Today • Coach Mike Forrester

Well, hello and welcome back, my friend. So this is going to be part two with Jerry Dugan. So if you joined us last time for part one, you heard Jerry share about the fact of, you know, growing up, um, his mom, you know, passed him off to his dad when he was 11, his brother was nine. His dad was in the military, and so Jerry and his brother went to Germany and the stress of that, that breakup, right, caused his dad to feel suicidal and act accordingly. So Jerry and his brother were working to protect their dad is, you know, he ended up, um, trying to commit suicide by hanging himself at one point, which then opened the door for his, you know, superiors to see, Hey, that redneck, you know, mark, you know, kind of created conversations that it wasn't like that's, you know, from shaving, which is what he tried telling, but, uh, you know, his superiors looked and went, nah, that doesn't work. So Jerry and his brother went for six weeks, uh, to foster care with a family that gave him a completely different family life. One where it wasn't the yelling and spankings, but instead it was, Hey, you're going to go in timeout, we have conversations, and it was 180 degrees from what he had experienced before. So from there, once his dad got the help that he needed, uh, Jerry and his brother and dad ended up going to New Jersey for six months, then to California for six months. And that was Jerry's sixth grade was wrapped up in a lot of moving. That's junior high. You can imagine the stress that Jerry was under. I mean, sixth grade is challenging enough, right? So from there. Being with, um, you know, his dad's side of the family, three of the uncles were facing divorce. So there was a lot of, um, you know, kind of challenge there with just the, the family dynamics and the relationship dynamics. But Jerry was also subjected, because of his mom being from Thailand, the, certain members of the family decided to bully and, you know, throw in racial slurs to a, a 14 year old, like, just crazy, um, from that, it then caused his dad to step in and go, Oh, you weren't just telling me this, this is actually occurring. So it came to a head and, uh, Jerry ended up at, uh, one point, let's see, how old were you? Like 14 or 15 at that point, Jerry, when you got the mowing job?

Uh, about 14, I was in eighth grade. Well, seventh grade into eighth grade. And then, yeah, I got laid off after that.

Gotcha. So Jerry was mowing lawns 20 bucks a month. You know, you're not going to find Jerry mowing lawns at that rate anymore. Probably no kids. So there's been a, a price increase on lawn mowing, but that gives you a concept of, Hey, he's making 20 bucks a month. He turned around and out of a genuine heart to encourage and uplift his family, wrote Christmas cards, hand wrote saying, Hey, this is the vision and the dream that I have, not just for me, but for our family name, like our legacy. Some of the family didn't react well to it. Other ones did and actually ended up having, uh, a relative that kept it. And still has it. And it was just what Jerry had intended to be that encouragement. And so she ended up, you know, being inspired from it over the years. And, uh, that's kind of where we left it off. Jerry, did I miss anything or is that about it?

No, that was a really good summary. Yeah. Here I am all chipper. Like, Hey, how's it going, man?

But I mean, to the case in point, right? Our thing is hope, regardless of what we've gone through, where we've come from, that's not what's controlling you today. You've been intentional to make that transition. And that's what can be done. And we want to encourage other men to take that, that mindset, that hope, go and take action to bring about a different outcome, a positive one, because we're not stuck with what our past is, right? So, um, dude, there was a whole lot that you unpacked last time. So, um, then there's a lot of transformation that still occurred from that point.

Yeah.

When you were like, Hey, I'm focused on school because I want to get to college. So you wrote that letter for Christmas. Where did things go from there? I mean, you know, you've got some of the family that didn't take it so well and others that did, and you've been, you know, now you've been really blessed to find out they're inspired, like, how did things progress from that time?

Yeah. Uh, so for me, that was the, the moment where I drew that line in the sand and said, this is my direction, this is where I'm going. And, it's almost like it didn't matter whether or not those uncles liked me. It didn't matter if the cousins liked me. Um, yeah, it didn't matter what they said or what they called me. I know that they would say, Oh, look at him. He's stuck up or he thinks he's better than everybody. Like, I know those phrases got floated around, um, but it, uh, it wasn't going to hold me back. I wasn't allowing that to be what defined me or reshape my behavior. And so going into ninth grade, um, some friends of mine said, Hey, come check out the football team, you know, freshmen football. That's what everybody's doing. I'm like, well, I, I don't know the game at all. Other than, you know, playing in the street with friends and, you know, so I, I got there with my friends and they're all suited up and going to practice and I'm still not interested in playing and I look over and I see the cheerleaders are practicing. I'm like, Oh, Hey, now, now I'm 14. Um, and I'm like, they're cute. And somebody said, yeah, but they're only into football players. Really? And before you know it, I'm getting the packet. They're still taking signups and for tryouts. And, uh, I go home and I'm like, dad, I want to play football. And he's like, what does it cost? I'm like, it's like $20 processing fee and I got to go get a physical. Um, where do I get a physical? He's like, well, I just make an appointment for you. And so we did that. Got the physical, filled out the paperwork. Next day, bam. I'm at football practice, picking out pads and everything. Um, and that was the start of my, my football life, uh, in high school. And, and then also the band director needed tuba players. I was playing tubas in seventh grade because I was really into heavy metal. And, um, gosh, I'm sorry, guys. Band joke. Sorry. Sorry. I mean, I'm a dad, too. I put them both together. Uh, but anyway, uh, so the band director reached out, offered me a spot on the, in the band. And I was like, but I'm playing football. And she's like, your games are on a different day. It's cool. Like you, you play on Thursdays. You're with us on Fridays. Uh, it'll work out until you make varsity. And, um, but the point I'm making is that all through high school, I stayed busy. So I was involved with band and I was, I was playing football. I was playing baseball and, and juggling all those, uh, extracurricular activities. My band director also saw potential in me, so she signed me up for, uh, something called Youth Music Monterey. It was, it's like, uh, you know, like some sports have select teams where it's really like a, a private team. That's what this was. It was like select orchestra. These were like the best kids from around the area coming together once a week to rehearse for a concert that really only their parents would see. And listen to anyway, like it, it wasn't like we were like big rock stars, but I guess that's kind of the thing with select baseball and select sports anyway. Um, so I got to study with a guy named Jim Paoletti, he was a two, he was my tuba instructor. So if I was going to be in this group, I had to really up my game as far as tuba goes, and Youth Music Monterey had a tuba instructor come in and, um, this guy now. If, if you're younger, you're not going to have any clue to what I'm talking about, but, uh, folks, my age and older will remember a movie called Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And towards the end of the movie, there is the encounter and humanity is interacting with the spaceship through music. The spaceship is a very deep, bassy, uh, sound turns out in real life, it was recorded, uh, from a tuba. And it was done, I learned, in one take. The, the guy sight read the music and gave a thumbs up, they turned on the light, boom. He played everything in one take and that got cut up and used throughout that scene. Jim Paoletti, was studying from that guy and got to be in the booth when that recording was done. And, you know, knowing Jim's story, and I was just like, wow, like there's a bigger world out there than I knew. And, and so that, those types of moments, like that was my sophomore year learning that story. And, you know, that kind of propelled me to get through high school. I got recruited for music, uh, wound up going to University of the Pacific. At the last minute I chickened out and, uh, I still went to the school, but I went undeclared. And then I went pre-med because, you know, it was just already ingrained in my mind from my mom, uh, you're going to grow up, become an officer in the Army. You're going to be a doctor. And here I am going to school for tuba performance. And I thought I'd throw my life away. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, but I don't think I could change the world playing tuba. I just don't, I don't know. And even though I just told you a story of Jim Paoletti kind of keeping me motivated and encouraged to continue playing because of his experience, you know, playing tuba. So there is a case in point of somebody changing somebody's life from tuba. Um, But I still played though, you know, so I, I was a pre-med student. I played in the Pacific pep band. I was in the concert band. Uh, and I tried to do all the things that normal teenagers and college kids do. You know, I tried to have a girlfriend and, um, turns out I, I was scared of relationships because of what my parents went through, my uncles, my aunts had gone through, uh, by then my, uh, mom was going through, uh, a second marriage, but she hadn't yet divorced. But, um, yeah, I just, I noticed that in college that I had this track record of having a girlfriend who would then leave me for somebody else and I didn't have the emotional wherewithal to, to handle that. I didn't know how to handle it. And uh, so I'm sure that made me look like the weirdest guy on campus. And you know, looking back, I always cringe. I'm like, Oh gosh, why, why? Why couldn't somebody just come in and just tell that guy or help that guy through? And, um, you know, it would have been a whole lot different, but those was kind of the growing pains I had to go through was, um, you know, figure out relationships on my own. And, you know, fortunately in college, I had a good group of like a tight group of friends that kind of showed me what normal looked like, you know, it was, it was still alien to me, but, you know, they at least let me hang out with them and be a part of the group. And I got to see what normal looked like and what normal struggles look like. And, um, you know, same with my high school friends, like, you know, they, they had a different family dynamic, even though they may have struggled financially or academically, um, they had some positives to their lives. They had some negatives. All of them were human. All of them were bringing their best selves. And, um, they, they helped me like whatever ego I put into place to protect myself emotionally, uh, they did a good job of deflating that ego just enough to let that humanity come out of me as well. And, and so it wasn't like my family that tries to like completely knock me off my path. Like, who do you think you are? Uh, they're like, no, there's nothing wrong with pursuing achievement or success. Just don't lose your character in the process. Don't be a jerk. Don't, uh, yeah. Don't disrespect other people, you know, remember they're people too, and they have dreams, they have aspirations, they have capabilities that you don't have, so you don't want to just burn bridges left and right, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Uh, so that, that really helped me grow emotionally, uh, over those years, uh, sort of from high school to college. Uh, now, focus was a thing, it turns out. And at the end of four and a half years, uh, as a pre-med student, I was getting out of there with a 2.1 GPA. So pre-med student probably is not going to become medical student. Uh, but I defined myself off of that. Like I'm going to be a doctor. I'm going to be a doctor. But, um, even my faculty advisor thought and wondered if I really wanted to be a doctor because he's the guy signing off on my, my degree plan, and he sees the grades. And he's like, those aren't the grades of somebody who wants to be a doctor because that same guy who's failing that class is tutoring that kid to pass the class. That's not a, he can't do it. That's a, he doesn't want to do it. And maybe there's something else he wants. And he planted the seed, Dr. Richman, and he was like, maybe, maybe something in education is more what you're interested in, and I remember being very proud and saying, you know, those who can't do, teach. And that, that kind of killed all the advice from Dr. Richmond for the next two and a half years. He just said, Hey, how's it going? Here's your paper off you go. Um, so what do I do? I've graduated, 2.1 GPA. I'm not even ready for the MCAT. Don't even know if a medical school will take me. And the word I'm getting is no, you have no medical experience. Your GPA sucks. And chances are your MCAT is going to not be good either. Um, But there's hope. I think it was somebody from Stanford University had advised me that, you know, Stanford looks at the whole person. So your GPA could be offset with a strong MCAT score and strong medical experience. So if you could go back to school, become an RN, get some medical experience in the, in the field. You can find yourself in a school like Stanford. I was like, really? Cool. Problem. I'm flat broke. I've borrowed everything I could borrow. I've taken every grant I could take. This was it. And my brain is fried. Where can I go? And I was just thinking about it. I realized, wait, my dad was in the Army. The Army. They've got this like, program that brings you in and if you get into medical school, they'll pay for your medical school. Uh, every year that they pay for, you serve right back. So they pay for four years, you serve for four years. I'm like, great. But before I even get to that, I need to be trained to get medical experience. The Army will pay for that. They'll, they'll give me a paycheck on top of that. While I go get the work experience. And if I play my cards right, I get to travel to places I want to go. That's it. That's the sweet deal. And then I had to think about which branch of service. And I'm like, I could go Air Force. They're the easiest, uh, the most intellectually like driven. But man, those uniforms are, you know, just we make fun of them. They're blue. You know, like, what is that? Uh, which showed how much I didn't know about the Air Force at the time. Uh, and then there was the Navy. I'm like, well, I have this fear of either drowning or being eaten by sharks while I'm still alive. No, not doing that. And then I was like, okay, it's down to Marine Corps and Army. And I was like, Marine Corps got cool uniforms. They do cool things. Ah, the boats thing. Plus they got to run faster than I can. Okay. Not Marine Corps. Okay. Can I even get in the Army? And it was like, yeah, you might make it because I was overweight by then. I was like college grad. I put on more than the freshman 15. It was like the freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, 15 each kind of thing. And, uh, even the recruiters were like. Oh, dang. Okay. We can get him in, but will he stay in? That's the question. Um, they didn't say that out loud, but you could just see from the body language. And I talked to recruiters. They were like, okay, cool. We can get you in. Uh, would you like to be an infantryman? I'm like, well, do I at least put a bandaid on somebody else? Very specific. I want to be in the medical field. So I wind up getting in the Army as a medic. Uh, I ship off to Fort Sam, uh, before that Fort Sill, Oklahoma, which is where I was born, lots of pushups. So many pushups because people thought I was messing up the paperwork and because you have to write in birthplace and I'm writing down Fort Sill, Oklahoma. And they're like, it says birthplace, not where you live right now. And I'm like, no, that is where I was born, Drill Sergeant. Oh, are we talking back now? Okay. Do pushups and like, Oh man, just like my mom. What was that? Nothing, Drill Sergeant. Uh, but so many pushups. If there was one event on the PT test I could pass, it was the pushup event. Couldn't run very fast. Sit ups, enough to throw up and pass, but man, pushups, a hundred points every time. Um, now, gosh. Yeah. So I, I go through training, I get to Germany, my first duty station's in Germany. Uh, from there I deployed to Kosovo. I get back from Kosovo and I'm thinking I'm going to sow my oats. I'm not a Christian yet, by the way. And, um, I meet somebody, she's one of the new soldiers, a friend of ours introduces us and says, Hey, this is Olivia. This is Jerry. Uh, you guys are very nice people. Probably the nicest people on the posts. You'll probably hit it off. Like, cool, awesome. And, and Olivia, uh, says, Hey, nice glasses. It turns out we both have the same pair of unisex glasses from LensCrafters. And that's the first thing she picks up on. I'm like, Oh, wow. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I'm like, wait, does that mean I got girl glasses or? She's like, no, they're unisex. I'm like, okay, cool. Cause that's, that's what I thought I was picking them from. Oh, that was scary. Um, and I thought, man, she's really nice. And then somebody said, yeah, but she's getting married. I'm like, oh, that's, that's too bad. Yeah, she's getting married cause, uh, she's, she's pregnant and I'm like, Oh, poor lady. I wonder if she even likes the guy. Who is it? They're like, Oh, it's that guy over there. I'm like. I don't see it. Maybe because I thought she was cute and I liked her and I like that we, we did click right away. Uh, but I mean, it's a pretty big deal. Like she's engaged and she's going to have a baby with this guy. And I'm like, I can't get in the middle of that. So, um, I, I play cool. I'm talking myself out of this. Um, now my boss, my new boss says, Hey, all you guys just came back from Kosovo. There's a bunch of new soldiers we got while you were away, uh, while your replacements were also away. And there was like vacuum of leadership. Um, I just came in, I've noticed this, I've assessed, you know, which soldiers are worth saving. And what I want to do is pair each one of you up with one of these new soldiers and teach them everything you learned in Kosovo. I got paired up with Olivia and so I'm like, all right, cool. I get to spend time with her because my boss says so. Mwahaha! Teach her everything I know. Uh, except I talk to her ear off so much, just like I'm doing to everybody right now. Um, that I ran out of content in four days. I was like, oh, that was too fast. Uh, what do I do now? So I started signing up for correspondence courses and this is before like the web was really used for education and training. So you would sign up, the Army would mail you a booklet. You would read through the booklet. Do the practice test, take the actual test and send that booklet back. Um, and then you would get points towards promotion. I signed up for almost everything they had. And so the stuff that I learned in Kosovo, I did air quotes there. The stuff I so called learned in Kosovo, I was really learning in the moment from these correspondence courses and then turning around and striking up conversation. Uh, just to keep her right there in front of me. And, and, uh, you know, sometimes she'd ask questions off topic, like, where am I from? Uh, do I have a girlfriend? Um, you know, all the things that she tells me were clues and I'm like, oh, that I, I had no idea. I thought you were just being nice. She's like What? Why else would I care about you and your family? Or if you have a girlfriend? Like that should have been a hint. Like, yeah.

Nah, we guys sometimes are, are absolutely clueless, so.

I have to remind her I was single when she met me for a reason. Um, it was a lack of game.

When you were saying you were back in Germany, right? Was it the same place where your dad had been?

No. Um, I, I'd put that down as one of my options. Uh, but, and that was up in Bremerhaven. They put me way further South, uh, closer to Frankfurt and Wiesbaden.

OK.

Little tiny post. It's closed now, but, uh, that's where I wound up and there wasn't a whole lot in Bremerhaven anymore anyway, uh, by the time I joined the Army. So, uh, there was still a small presence, uh, because it was more of a port city, but I think more Navy was up there than anything, um, not as much Army. Uh, so yeah, I was closer to, uh, like where the Air Force and Army was concentrated around Frankfurt. And, uh, so, but I always wanted to make a trip up there. I just never got around to it because I built up this reputation early on that, Hey, Dugan likes to go to the field. He's good at it. Uh, we never get complaints about him when he comes back and he just, he seems excited, like nobody else is excited. Plus he's not married. He has no kids. He's like, easy to send off. Uh, And that's before I met Olivia and here I am like, getting ready to go to the field again, we just started dating. Uh, she's, uh, probably about three months pregnant at the time. Uh, but I had to weigh that I was like, if I date her, uh, there's this other, I don't want to say baggage, cause that's the horrible way to say it. Um, there's this other commitment that she has, and like, there's this complexity that would come from, and I hadn't even gone on a date with her yet. I'm just thinking about like future tense. Like if this did work out, if we did go on a date and we did like each other still, and we kept pursuing a relationship, there's this complex, this complexity that we'd eventually have to talk about. Um, and you know. Uh, how much of me is involved, how much not involved and, you know, that kind of thing. And, uh, but it was so weird. It was like, every time I thought about like that, that would eventually be a conversation, but you know, at least ask her out for the first time, I'd just have this peace of mind. Like, yeah, it's not a big deal. Like if it works out great, you could be as involved as she wants you to be, uh, or not. And, uh, yeah, I finally made my move and she was like, yeah, what took you so long? And I'm like, What do you mean? And she's like, I've been dropping hits for like three months. I was like, what? Uh, like what? And everything I described. And she's like, do you think I really wanted to hear about how to set up a field antenna in the middle of the night or how to create markings with infrared chem lights, um, so that the enemy can't see without night vision goggles, that kind of stuff? Like, do you think I really cared about all that? I was like, you kept asking questions. She was like, yeah, I wanted to see if you were dating anybody, but by your answers, I figured it was pretty obvious you weren't like, okay, cool. Cool. Um, so yeah, we, we wound up dating almost immediately. I had to go to the field, um, but we were writing letters to each other. And then I came back and we continued dating. And, uh, then, then Jacob was born and I got to hold him first. And I was like, oh man, this, this child is amazing. Um, and I, I knew like, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with this, this woman and be this kid's father if, if they would have me and, um, you know, eventually I asked her and she said yes. And, uh, yeah, then we get married. Uh, well, she leaves Germany first. Her orders changed, 9/11 had happened. Um, my orders were still for Germany for a few more months and then I got reassigned to Fort Benning. But between that transfer, we got married. I had my orders changed, brought her out to Fort Benning and yeah, we began our family. And, uh, you know, Jacob's now 22 years old. We added Emma to the family a couple of years into the marriage. Uh, Liv and I have been married 22 years now. So yeah, if we're ever in doubt, we just kind of ask Jacob what age he is. And we're like, Oh yeah, 22 years. That's it. Or vice versa. We forget how old Jacob is. We remember how long we've been married. It's like, Oh yeah, yeah. 22 years. Very convenient. Um, one of my favorite things though, um, so I wind up going to combat, Operation Iraqi Freedom, uh, with third infantry division. So part of the invasion, I was in a field artillery unit. Um, the short thing there is still not a believer. My wife wanted to go back to church. We were shopping churches, but I always had some reason for us to not go back. And, uh, but now it's like March 19th. We're about to roll across, we're about to blow up a bunch of guard towers and roll through minefields and, and be inside of Iraq in a matter of hours. And we're told, get into your chemical suits, you know, write a letter home, um, you know, check your equipment, be ready to go. And so people are not just like getting in their chemical suits and writing letters like, Hey, I love you, but they're also writing those just in case letters and handing them off to each other. So, you know, if you're getting this letter, then it means I was killed in action or, you know, whatever it is. And I was like, gosh, I should probably write one of those too. Except I can't hand it off to anybody here. I'm the medic. And if they see the medic thinking about death, that's going to freak them out and it's going to bring morale down. So I can't do that, especially with my buddy who's younger than me. And he just had a kid and, uh, you know, Liv and I are expecting a daughter on the way as well. And I'm like, I can't, I can't freak him out. Okay. So I can't freak anybody out. I can't, I can't write this type of letter. Um, but I need to write a letter. But I also can't just use the words like I'm going to, I'm going to send it no matter what, I'm going to send this letter, but I can't just write in case I die because that's going to freak my wife out and she doesn't need that. She's pregnant. She's got a lot on her plate. Um, and so I just made sure that it was the most loving letter I could write. You know, I love you so much. I think about you all the time. This is what I first thought of when I first met you. And, you know, that's the way I love about, you know, Jacob, you know, he's always been my son, never think anything beyond that. And, um, you know, I look forward to getting to know our daughter and one thing I always want her to know about me is that I'm thinking about her and holding her. And, and that song that you, you know, showed me from like your childhood trinkets, uh, you know, I want to be able to sing that to her and, you know, those kinds of things, like, it's like, like, this is the life I envision with my daughter. Um, but I'm not saying that like, you know, I won't be there, but I want her to know these things. And it was just like, okay, I've said my piece there. I signed it. Gave it to the first sergeant to mail off, um, got in my chemical suit, checking all my equipment. We're still like an hour away from invasion time. And I'm like, I feel like I, like, I, I know I've covered all my bases, but I feel like I haven't covered all my bases. And I kind of look up and I saw that somebody had been praying and like talking to the Chaplain and they did, they, they cross, you know, the spectacles, other part of their body, watch and wallet. You know, the, the motion that they do with the cross on themselves, there's, there's a whole term, like a mnemonic to help you remember. But anyway, that's not important. Uh, but I saw them doing that. They're praying, they're doing the sign of the cross on the, on themselves. I'm like, eh, what the heck? You know, what's the worst that can happen? God doesn't listen to me? God's not real? I don't know. So I just went with I'm just by myself and I'm like God if you're real when I die just replace me with somebody who's gonna love my wife better than I could and love her more than I did and, and somebody who raised my children as if they were his own and that, that's the only father they've ever known, uh, raise them the way that they should go. Not the way that he wants them to become, uh, but the way they will be their best person. And that's all I got.

As far as a prayer, I'm like, okay, wait a minute, Jerry, are you sitting there going? Yeah, I could step up my game with Olivia. I could love her better. Like, to say, hey, somebody, I want, if, if I die, I want it to be somebody that loves her more than I love her. I'm like, I don't know that I had, when I was struggling, that I got to that point. You know, where it was like realizing, Hey, I'm not doing my best. That's a lot of like, you're self aware.

Yeah.

Were you thinking like, Hey, I could do better if I was back home or I would do better? I mean, was that kind of going through your head?

It was more of, um, like I was expecting to not make it, you know, I was the short timer who got stop lost. I'm the medic, which in the Army, uh, had medics have received more awards posthumously than any other job in the U.S. Army in the history of the Army. And so I'm thinking like, you know, Saving Private Ryan, you know, that when Private Wade was killed, uh, because a friend of mine told me, cause I enlisted apparently the day before my buddy and I went to go see that movie in theater. And after Wade died, uh, my buddy, Mike, he leans over. He's like, Hey, didn't you just sign up to be a medic in the Army? So all that is in my mind and I'm thinking I'm not making it home. There's the, I'm just not making it home. Um, but I don't want my family to wallow in misery that I'm gone. I want them to live. I want them to have their best life. And, and for that to happen, my wife's gonna have to find somebody who's gonna sweep her off her feet to the point where it's okay that I'm not around. That, you know, almost to the point of forgetting about me enough to live her life fully. And then from there, that same kind of guy, it's not just about sweeping my Wife off her feet, but there's two kids that they need to feel loved. They need to feel special. They need to feel that they have a future and they need to learn from the father figure in their lives. And so, yeah, it's gotta be somebody who will carry that out and, and realize, yeah, biologically they're not mine, but that doesn't matter. You know, like it's all about love and caring. And if I'm their father figure, I'm honored. Let's, let's do this. And so I wanted that for my kids. I didn't want the horror story of like the stepdad who either was ambivalent to their lives or the stepdad who took advantage of them. And so I wanted the stepdad that was going to be a better dad than me. And it was just like, so that they would never say, man, I wish I knew my real dad. Like, it's like, this is my dad. And, and it's, I was thinking more like that. Like I want them to have what I couldn't give and, and I want them to be able to move on if I'm gone.

That makes, that makes sense. And I get it. I was just like going, wait a minute, Jerry. So no, that, that makes sense now. So, um, you're over in, in the war, I mean, pushing forward, how do things, you know, and you see a guy praying, how, how do things progress from there?

Yeah.

You know, you wanted somebody to replace in essence, you to be a better replacement. What does that look like?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know. It's like, that's why I apparently just threw out there and said, you got that, that I'll hand that to you. If you're real, you'll make that happen. And, uh, I just go about my job, assuming I'm not going to make it. Um, so yeah, most of it, you know, on the news, they talked a lot about shock and awe the reality is on, on my perspective, it was like, yeah, we, we just rolled through a minefield in the middle of the night, no light. No lights on or anything. And I'm like, Oh, that was kind of anticlimactic. Like, I mean, they put like, uh, big plowed through lanes. They're like three lanes wide. Um, and they just said, drive through the middle one, stay behind the vehicle in front of you. And if that one blows up. Don't follow it. Well, duh. Uh, that means that vehicle veered off and went over a berm and miraculously didn't get stuck on that berm. Cause they, they made these berms so that, uh, you'd wind up getting stuck on the top if you got too far out of line. So it, very well done. Um, in fact, it turns out I'm going to interview the guy who was in charge of the engineers who plowed those, um, on my show. I'm gonna have them on my show. So I'll be like, Hey, you know, I, I guess I do have one thing I do admire about the combat engineers. Other than that, I have a big bone to pick with you. No I'm kidding. Um, long story there, no need to get into it. Um, yeah, so a lot of driving through the desert, not a whole lot going on. Uh, we get to Nasiriyah. You know, we have our artillery shoot out there and, uh, we, you know, our division secures Tallil Air Base. My unit gets attached to the rest of the division. So we're used to moving around with third brigade of third division, so 3,500 soldiers. Well, we get detached from our home group in a sense. And we're told now follow the rest of the division up to Baghdad. And, and we do. And we're, we're basically involved in every single firefight that third infantry division was in, in the entire invasion. My, my group of about a hundred guys, uh, six cannons plus the ammo carriers and the support people, uh, were in every single battle that the Army was in going up to Baghdad. Uh, we get to Baghdad, um, you know, there was even a crazy sandstorm on the way up there, like three days into it. Uh, like, first, the sky's red, you don't see more than 20 feet ahead of you. And we're just like, all right, well, we're stopping here. Uh, and then it became night and it was pitch black. Like night vision goggles couldn't even give you any sense of what's going on. Like I remember putting on my night vision goggles, putting my hand in front of the goggles. I could not see my hand. And then I put on the infrared spotlight to see if I could see my hand. All I got was a brighter field of green. And I just turned to the two guys in the vehicle. I was like, Hey, sir, um, Sergeant Cushenberry. Uh, he was the platoon, sergeant platoon leader. I was like, guys, I can't see anything with these night vision goggles. And they're like, it's all right, Doc. You can't see anything without them either. Just turn them off and go to sleep. I was like, all right, cool. Uh, but then once we got resupplied, we pushed on, we get to Baghdad. Um, and we wind up staying at what used to be the Republican Guard headquarters and their training ground. Uh, next door was a pharmaceutical company that we later found out was also a missile research facility. Um, it was just the front part of the complex was the pharmaceutical company. Everything else was missile complex. And the way they walled it off was to fool the UN inspectors before the invasion. And, um, but yeah, we had looters trying to come into the compound every single day because apparently we were sitting on aluminum rods that would give them a lot of money on the black market. They'd be able to feed their family for a year, just from one rod. We didn't know that. We just saw people running into our compound who shouldn't be there. And we're chasing them off because we're like, they're unarmed. It'll look really bad if we're just gunning down civilians. Um, so that, that unassigned task every day was to help my buddy, Gary Parks and just chase people out, boom, chase them out. It was the same people every day. And I, I remember my, my humanity just starting to be chipped away at that point because of my annoyance, like it's hot outside, I'm running after these people with my full gear on and they're like light as a feather with just clothes on their backs. And, um, so I start doing things like cutting their clothes off and setting the clothes on fire and like, all right, now off you go, butt naked. Let me take your dignity away from you if I can. And they'd come back again, and I'd just strip them down again, set the clothes on fire, send them off and, um, you know, try to just scare them and just strip away that sense of humanity for themselves. That it was like, okay, it's not worth it anymore. Um, and one day, like a soldier walks up to me and he's from another platoon and it's just me and I'm guarding six people who just invaded our compound. Um, really to loot it, but I mean, I just caught these guys and have them all stripped down and, you know, set their clothes on fire. And so while they're like, butt naked, they're rebuilding the hole in my wall that they just created. And the soldier walks up and he's like, Hey, Sergeant Dugan, what's, what's up with their clothes? And, uh, and I'm just taken aback that he's questioning me as opposed to helping me pull security. Like it's just me. Where's my help to help secure these guys. And I'm like, I'm sorry, what? And he's like, what's up with their clothes? I'm like, their clothes don't matter cause they're in a burning heap over here. Um, and when they come back in, in a couple of hours, that's where the next set of clothes will be. He's like, yeah, but why are you doing it this way? Why, why are you doing this to them? And I said, well, they break in every, every hour, every day. And, uh, eventually, you know, there won't be any of them left. Uh, and he's like, how do you know that? And I'm like, cause this group used to be twice its size. Three weeks ago or two weeks ago, whatever it was. Um, and you know, so some of them, you know, they, I guess they, their families found out and they stopped coming, but, um, that's all he kept asking though, was like, what, what, what's about, what about their clothes? And finally, I just, I got annoyed with him and I said, look, you either help me pull security or get help them. Which one do you want to do? And I also was even more mad because he had some jewelry hanging out of his uniform. And, you know, in hindsight, I realized it was a cross. So he had a cross hanging out, not on purpose. It just came out of his uniform, just in movement. So technically he was out of uniform, out of standard and, you know, something shiny is showing. And, um, so I wanted to yell at him for that, even. I remember being mad about that. And, um, but after I told him, you can help me or you can help them. He just went to parade rest and he said, that's okay, Sergeant. I'll just go back to my, my hooch. I'll go back to my unit. And he walked away and I thought that was so weird. You know, that, that, that guy was so weird. Like, nice guy. I've met him before, but like the whole exchange, like I outrank the guy by like three levels. Um, and so I easily could have just yelled at him, told him, get out of there. And he was just so polite. He was so respectful of my rank. Uh, he did question questionable actions, you know, rightfully so. But as soon as he was out of sight, I just looked back at the guys, I mean, I was keeping an eye on both, but once he was gone, I looked back at the guys. And. I told them to just get up, I got them out the hole in the wall and, uh, told them don't come back. And, uh, you know, they, they came back, but this time they got a new set of clothes and they went to the front gate. They didn't come through my hole in the wall. I repaired that myself because I knew, you know, they weren't really fixing the wall because they knew they needed to get back in. And so I'm like, if I want this so they don't come back in, I got to fix this, so I repaired that hole in the wall. They weren't coming back through it. I think that's part of what made them go back to the front gate. And, um, they wound up brokering a deal with the leadership over at the gate. They got to come in with trucks. They took every single rod out, out of the complex. That's how I learned that's what they were after in the first place. Cause we never got that far in the conversation. Uh, I just saw them tinkering around and, and, uh, running around. That I was like, get them out of here. They're a threat. But by funneling them to the front gate inadvertently, they wound up asking if they could come in and get the rods, and the leadership had a full on conversation and they're like, yeah, you come back with some trucks and some satellite cards, you know, we got a deal, and satellite phones to go with them. So they did, they, they swapped. It was like, they were like, thank you so much. And they're like, this is like dirt cheap for us. What are you asking for? They're like, well, we haven't talked to home in over a month. You have no idea what you've given us in return. And, uh, as long as you don't come back, we're good. And they're like, yeah, we'll, we won't come back. And that was it. No more lootings of our compound after that. And, uh, it, it was, it was nice, but all that, it was, it was a wake up call for me because like, that was also the same day my daughter was being born. And I remember going back to my, like, after I let those guys go, I went back to my own room in the compound and I just broke down and I started crying. I'm like, I can't be a monster when I die. You know, my, my daughter's going to hear about what I do and, um, you know, I'm probably just one or two encounters away from doing actual war criminal stuff. So this has to stop. I, yeah, I got to change. This is, yeah. And still in my mind, I'm not going home. I'm not going to make it home. And so the, the, the commitment at that point is I'm going to at least do the best I can for the rest of the time I've got here on this planet in this really hot place with lots of mosquitoes and flies. And yeah, a couple months go by and we're finally told, Hey, we're getting you out of here. Not just me, but our unit.

Right.

And we're going to send you back to Kuwait. We're going to let you diffuse and then we'll send you home from there. And so we do that. We go, we go back to Kuwait. I'm like, wow. Huh. I didn't die, of course, me being morbid, I'm like, as long as the plane home doesn't crash, I might make it.

Oh my gosh, Jerry.

People are always shocked when I have that perspective. I'm like, guys, I, I, I do live in the world of worst case scenario, but I, I don't let that rule me, but it pops in there. Um, so yeah, that time goes by, I go home, uh, with my unit. It's, I think late July at this point, almost August, and, you know, we have the ceremony, you know, proud to be an American is playing, uh, the third infantry division band is there to greet us. Our families are in the bleachers of this gymnasium as we march in and they're cheering us on. And it was just like, wow, this is. Whew. I'm home. And then I got to meet my daughter for the first time. She was three months old. Um, my son, you know, he's getting reacquainted with me. He's like, who's this guy? He's, uh, I lost some weight from the last time he had seen me. And he was a baby at the time. Now he's a toddler. He can speak gibberish and he doesn't know who I am yet. But, uh, by the next morning, he's like all over me. He's like, Oh, I remember this guy now. My mom is there. My stepdad's there. My brother came in from California. And when it's time for us to go home, like we've already turned our weapons in and we've got our instructions for the next day, uh, which was, Hey, just stay home and sleep. We'll come in on Monday. And, uh, so we do that. And so, my mom, my stepdad, my brother, and I think they take Jacob, they go in my mom's car and they're driving to our house. Uh, so it's my wife, myself and our daughter in our car, and we're driving back, and my wife says on the drive home, she's like, Hey, I need to ask you something, but you know, do you promise not to get mad? And I'm thinking, Oh boy, I hope it's furniture. I hope it's furniture. Because one of the briefings we got was from the Chaplain before we came home. And he said, Hey, how many of you are married? And we raised our hands. Okay, how many of you were expecting to have all that tax free bonus money still in your bank account when you get back waiting for you to spend it on what you want? And anybody married less than five years, kept their hands up. And he looked at her and he said, all right, all of you put your hands down. Are you kidding me? We're like, what? And he said, that money is gone. It is gone. And here's why, your wives spent it. It was there. They needed it. They're managing a household without you. They did the best they could. That money is not there. And if it is, you had married a unicorn, you hold onto her for dear life. Everybody else, you married and your family's had needs. That's where the money went. The money is not important. Um, But the money went to one of two things, either got new furniture for the house, or there's a new family member named Jody. Jody was the nickname for the side piece. The, you know, the, the side boyfriend, you know, you get Army cadences about it and everything. Um, in Latino culture, that's, um, Sancho. Um, anyway, yeah. So either a, you got furniture or be you got a Sancho, uh, and yeah, if it's furniture, you say thank you, you hug your wife, you enjoy the furniture. Um, if it is a Sancho or a Jody, leave the house, call your friend, go to your friends, call me as soon as you can. This is my home number back home. Um, we'll, we'll get through this together. And I'm like, Oh man. So here's my wife on the drive home says she's got to tell me something, please don't be mad. And I'm like, is it about the money in savings? She's like, Well, we don't have any. I'm like, Oh man. Do we, do we have new furniture? Yeah, we do. How did you know? And, uh, I'm like, oh, good, good. But, and she's like, but that's not what I need to tell you. I'm like, ah, dang it. She got a boyfriend, too? I did not see that coming. But I didn't say that out loud. Um, and then she's, she's like, so it's not the furniture. Please don't be mad about that either. But it's, it's this, uh, when the war kicked off, I'd been praying for you every single day and I hope that's okay. And I said, yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Um, but what I prayed for was that if God brought you home in one piece, I would make sure my family went to church every Sunday and you're here. And I was like, Oh, so you made a deal with God? Like a promise? And she said, yes, I did. I'm like, okay. And, and so something that was big for me is we fulfill our promises. So if we promise our kids anything, we got to fulfill it. Uh, if we promise each other anything, we got to fulfill it. And then here's, like apparently the ultimate promise. God, if you bring my husband home in one piece, I'll bring my whole family to church. And for me, it was the value, because I still wasn't a Christian yet. And I said, well, I can't let my wife be a liar. And if I've got something in my power I could do to help that, then yeah, let's go. So, um, I asked one of my buddies in the unit who I knew was a Christian, a Christian, uh, and he always talked about his church. I'm like, Hey, uh, Daniel, what, what church do you go to? And he's like, you accepted Christ? I'm like, Whoa, slow down, dude. We just got home yesterday. You know, he's like, and then somebody yelled at us about military bearing. Cause I, you know, apparently he had to call me sergeant and I'm not supposed to call anybody dude. But, um, he, he told me what church he was going to Christ Community Church in Columbus, Georgia. And, uh, so we tried it out and we loved it. My wife and I, and the kids loved it. And we joined a small group and I still hadn't received Christ yet, but I liked going. Like I thought the music was cool. Like it wasn't what I was used to hearing from my grandparents church. Um, the people were nice. They were doing their best to live up to what, you know, the book said, and what the pastor was talking about. And the pastor wasn't talking about like how you don't measure up. He was talking about, you know, yeah, we all are human and here's how we bounce back with God. And, and I was like, wow, I like this. And then my orders come, I get to leave the Army and we're moving back to Texas because where's the most free babysitting we can get our hands on? And that was in Corpus Christi. So with my in laws, we come back to Corpus. Uh, we find a church that we learned about through our past church. And, uh, so this, another year and a half goes by. And I remember we're still going to this church every Sunday, just like my wife had promised. And so in that, like we're doing our offering prayer, uh, the offering prayer, and then also the salvation prayer. So like, you know, to receive Christ as your Savior. And I've heard this pastor do this prayer every Sunday for the last two years. And this time around, out of the blue, he says, cause I'm thinking in my head, you know, God, I'd love to join you, but you know, I'm still, I'm still dipping my toe into this thing here. Um, you know, that was just the thought I was thinking, you know, technically I didn't think I was praying. Now I realize, dang it, I was praying. And it turns out the first thing I did was a prayer to back in Kuwait, but anyway, so I'm thinking that I'm still dipping my toe into this thing. And out of nowhere, my pastor says at the very front, I'm in the very back and he says, and you know, God just put it on my heart to say right now, quit dipping your toe in the pool. You know what you're getting into, so dive in. And when he said that I perked up, I was like, what the heck? There's no way that guy is in my head. Like I was convinced he had cameras in my house, but there's no way he was inside this head just now when I was thinking about dipping my toe in the water to learn more about this Christianity thing and here he is saying, God's telling me to say, stop dipping your toe in the water, just dive in. Um, you'll, you will not regret it. I was like, Well, I mean. If that's on his heart and that came out of my head, then.

Yeah.

f years after that, it's like: 2007

Erwin.

Yeah. The what?

Erwin McManus.

he's going through, it's like: 1989

Yeah, I think most of the time we're looking and going, I don't want, I don't want, and you're actually changing people's perspective to say, what is it you do want?

Yeah.

And I love that cause that's where the power comes in. Well, Jerry, man, I really appreciate it. You coming back and joining, sharing the rest of your story and how it's like, um, you know, the, we may not realize things at the time, but they can have an impact as we go along and, and shape who we are. So, uh, if you wouldn't mind sharing again, Hey, how can guys get in touch with you outshot outside of this podcast?

Yeah. Um, beyondtherut.com is the website where everything's connected. So you can get to my business from there and get to my podcast, the blog. Uh, and, and a really cool tool for y'all is, um, I have a goal setting tool. Um, and it's called Measure It to Make It. Cause if you want to like move the needle forward, you got to kind of know where you are now, where you want to go and measure your progress to get there. And just go to beyondtherut.com/goals. You can download that for free, you know, map out what does success look like in your faith, family, fitness, finances, and your future possibilities. And from there you start creating some God driven goals, some purpose driven goals, and, uh, you just move towards it and give yourself a lot of grace because, you know, unlike God, we're human and we're going to make lots of mistakes. We're going to miss a lot of goals. Um, but you know, ultimately you just let that go to God and he'll, he'll still give you something to look back and be proud of and, and know that he was a part of that the whole way.

Definitely. Well, Jerry, thank you so much, my friend, I really appreciate it.

My pleasure, man. Good to see you again too.

Hey, likewise.

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