Beck and Dash dig into Appalachian culture, Blenko Glass, queer life, therapy, food, and trans visibility. It’s thoughtful conversation, everyday nonsense, and a lot of heart—served up with humor and community care.

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Welcome to Queer Next, the podcast that puts the Yee-Haw in y'all means Hall.

2

I'm your host Beck,

and I'm your host Dash.

3

Welcome to today's episode,

4

Dash: Felix.

5

I I love you a lot, but

you're just so annoying.

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Beck: I was so glad to see

Sabrina got her cat back.

7

Dash: She was really upset.

8

Beck: I bet

9

Dash: that's Belo is related

to, um, my cat brisket.

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They have, I don't know how it goes.

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They're not litter mates.

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I think Belo might be the

sister, might be brisket's aunt.

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And it's just, that whole line is not

the brightest, but they're all very

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sweet and beautiful, so, you know,

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Beck: yeah.

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You can't have it all.

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Dash: Well, the person that,

are you gonna get up and leave?

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Goodbye baby boy.

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Now he, he's like, well, I

wasn't gonna, but if you insist,

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so I'm, I'm, I love Felix's.

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Um.

22

Lap cat era he's in.

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But it, it, it can be a lot.

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Okay.

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Now maybe I won't have to touch all

these wires and make that sound one of

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these days I'll get like a proper like

studio office set up, but I do have that

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plan for one of the bedrooms upstairs.

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Beck: Yeah.

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Dash: I forgot what I was saying.

30

Probably not super important.

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Beck: I feel like I have

coconut in my teeth.

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Dash: Save that for later.

33

Beck: Yeah.

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God, you have to try these.

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They're so good.

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They are.

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They're called Raffaello.

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Rap Raffaello.

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Yeah, something.

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They come in these little tiny

packets and it's just a little coconut

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ball with coconut cream in it and

an almond and it just delicious.

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Dash: That sounds awesome.

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Beck: I do these surveys for Facebook.

44

It's an invite only thing.

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Anyway.

46

You make $5 at a time doing those.

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And I've made probably a couple

hundred dollars doing them

48

over the last couple of years.

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Why?

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And I had, I had $15 saved up,

so I used those on my ref, ref,

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rapo, whatever they're called.

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They're coconut, ferre, rochet.

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Dash: I never get picked

for stuff like that.

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Yeah, I'm too, I'm just

too normy, I guess.

55

Beck: I like doing it.

56

Dash: Have you ever done jury duty?

57

Beck: Um, I've been assigned to it

once, but I got out of it 'cause

58

I was the main person at my job.

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That's when I worked at the photo studio.

60

So they let me out of it.

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I

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Dash: don't know why it's, um, it,

it has to be coming for me someday,

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but I've never been, like, I've

never gotten the summons or whatever.

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Beck: After my dad died, he got a

federal, uh, sorry, jury summons to

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go to a federal court in Cincinnati.

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Dash: Well, they're just shit out.

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Beck: Yeah.

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I was like, sorry he's dead.

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You wouldn't believe me.

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I felt like, have you ever seen that

episode of Ja uh, Roseanne where Jackie

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is telling people their dad died and

she's talking to somebody who's hard of

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hearing and she's like, dad passed away.

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Dad went to heaven, dad is gone.

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And they still did hear

and he's like, she's fine.

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Like, and she like screams it.

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It's really funny.

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That's how it felt.

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Calling everybody, all the

masons and all the car lots and

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Dash: Oh man, yeah.

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Beck: I was like, he's dead.

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Dash: My mom's helping her.

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One of her sisters do that.

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Like her husband died maybe a

week ago, not very long ago.

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And so they're going through all that

stuff and trying to clear out the house.

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Beck: Oh, my dad died three years ago

and he gets more mail here than I do.

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He does, we put in a change of address for

him 'cause we were leaving the property,

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you know, so I put the whole family.

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Dash: Oh man.

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Beck: Yeah.

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All his mail comes here and it's because

he's a man and he moved to this area.

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He's gotten letters from funeral parlors,

uh, giving him free lunches to come talk.

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And the local masons wanted to welcome

him and like, all kinds of different mail.

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Yeah.

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Dash: Interesting.

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Beck: The, the variety of mail he's gotten

is very different than what I've gotten.

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He still gets credit

card applications and.

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All that shit.

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Dash: They make it so easy sometimes.

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Beck: Yeah.

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I just, I rarely check my

mail, so it just sits there.

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Dash: Oh, I'm, I'm pretty bad about it.

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I've been, it was much worse when I

was going to work every day because the

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post office here is open three hours a

day and, but now I'm, so, I was able to

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check it like once a month basically,

but now I check it several times a week.

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But whenever I'm back to going into

work, it'll, it'll go downhill again.

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Beck: Yeah, well our, I live in

a big complex, there's like 10

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buildings or something, and they

have one designated mail bank where

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there's just a bay of banks, uh, of

mailboxes, and it's so out of the way.

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It's such an inconvenience

to get into that.

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We just don't check it very often unless

we know there's a package down there.

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Dash: If I had known that a,

a post office appeal box was

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mandatory with this house, uh.

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I would not have bought it.

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I legit would've refused based on that.

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Oh wow.

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Because I, I know that I,

I just saw this coming.

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I knew that the way my brain works,

the way my executive function

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and how much fucking work it is

to do every single thing here.

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I was like, yeah, I'll

never check the mail.

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So, and that turned out to be true.

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Beck: Yeah.

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My parents had a PO box when I was a kid

and I was the designated mailbox checker.

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They would stop and I'd have to run in.

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Dash: Yeah.

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We always had one growing up.

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'cause there wasn't mailboxes

on the rural routes.

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We lived on 25 W, so

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Beck: yeah.

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Yeah.

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We were Route one Box 48,

Lucas Hill, Ohio, you know?

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Dash: Yeah.

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Beck: Where the hell is that?

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That, that could be anywhere.

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Then they went with the 9 1 1

addresses and that all changed.

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So

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Dash: did I.

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So this was a couple weeks ago, and

I have this one therapist that I see

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that's like a trauma therapist, so like

we're doing like a whole lot of like

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serious talking and stuff when I'm in

there and I was telling him this story.

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I was kind of describing the way like.

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People who don't experience any kind

of like systemic or administrative

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disenfranchisement, um, wouldn't know

that it's possible to even get got in

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the ways that like trans people can,

or immigrants or whatever, anybody who

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kind of can stand out in the system.

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So I was describing this like police

interactions I've had to him, and I

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don't know what phrase I used and I

must have made a motion with my arm,

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but my watch called the fucking Police.

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While I was in therapy.

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Beck: Well,

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Dash: and I realized it

and I'm like, oh shit.

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I like hung up really fast,

but you can't hang up on them.

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Beck: Right.

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Dash: So, and I told him that.

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I was like, oh God, I just,

I told him what happened.

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He goes, all right, they're

probably gonna call you back.

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And I was like, I know, and that

will make me have a panic attack.

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So like the fucking sheriff

called me directly and I was

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like, no, no, everything's fine.

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It was an accident.

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And then I started to like.

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Panic or whatever.

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My therapist, he was

like, yeah, no, go for it.

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This is great data.

164

Suck a bitch.

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So what are you feeling right now?

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Describe what you're feeling.

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Leave me out alone.

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Beck: Have you ever done the therapy

that that has the rapid eye movement

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where you go left or right to I

think it's what's what's called.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Dash: I have not, I'm scared of it.

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Yeah.

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Beck: Why

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Dash: have you done it?

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Beck: Yeah,

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Dash: you have.

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I don't know.

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I just, it's so.

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Reactivating.

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I, it just, it's clearly like I, people,

I have people who are close to me who

181

are doing it and you know, they'll be

like wrecked when they're done with it.

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Beck: Yeah.

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It was difficult because they just

keep, they just keep asking you and

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then what basically, and you have to

dig into whatever it is you're feeling

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and you really get in your feelings.

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But you know, it gets it out.

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It's like a tooth extraction.

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The pain pulls it, pulls it out.

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Dash: The, the first time I heard about

it, I was like, that sounds like some

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made up woo woo bullshit, you know?

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Beck: Yeah.

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Dash: And then, no,

it's, it's a real thing.

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You know, like there's other versions,

there are similar things like brain

194

spotting and the whole purpose of

them is to, to sort of challenge old

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pathways of thinking, like associations.

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The brain has like between

like thought sensation.

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And feeling and all that

stuff and memories, and then

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kind of create new ones.

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It makes sense.

200

But no, he, I don't know what he

would characterize his approach

201

as, but it's nothing like that.

202

But he does do that thing where

he's constantly like, describe

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what you're feeling right now.

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And I'm like, my, all of my

conditioning makes that an

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extremely difficult thing to do.

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Like everything about me, like

the life it, like just my life has

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necessitated not having emotions.

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I mean, emotions were like

shameful in our household.

209

Oh my God.

210

I made, I made some chili last

night and it's like the best pot

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of chili I think I've ever made.

212

Legitimately.

213

Oh, wow.

214

Like I taste tested it.

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This is first day, not even second day.

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I'm excited for today.

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It's gonna be lit.

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So I just did that thing where I taste

tested it and I had just eyeballed,

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you know, I had my chili powders and

all my, you know, salt and oregano and

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and stuff, and I just kind of threw it

all in there and I didn't even have,

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normally I would put a beer in it, like

a really dark beer for that, like yeasty

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barley kind of cut through flavor.

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Didn't have that 'cause

I don't like buying beer.

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And I was like, oh my

God, this is delicious.

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Beck: Is that the first time you've

made chili since you quit smoking?

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Dash: Yeah,

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Beck: that could be a big part of it.

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Dash: It could be.

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You're right.

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Beck: The case buds totally change.

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Dash: Yeah.

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They wake back up.

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Although I did make it like

back when I had quit the last

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time, I'm sure I made it.

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But you know, that was a couple years ago.

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'cause I had, when I started

smoking again, it was almost

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exactly a year that I spent smoking.

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Beck: Yeah.

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' Dash: cause I started shortly af I started

back again shortly after I moved here.

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Beck: Got you.

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We're going on 11 years since we quit.

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Dash: Nice.

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Well, smoking's allowed on our campus.

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Beck: Oh, wow.

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Dash: There'll be staff and faculty

just puffing on corners everywhere.

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So, and I'm not supposed

to even be around it.

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I'm not supposed to be

exposed to it at all.

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So if I go back to campus, it's

gonna be like running by everybody.

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Beck: It makes me nostalgic.

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It makes me miss my mom.

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Dash: Oh, I'm sure I'll like the smell of

it, but if I, I can't ingest it because

252

it could like the risk of nicotine.

253

Wound healing, especially like the

bone graft, like it could cause

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that thing to pop right open.

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Beck: Yeah.

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Dash: There's a word for it.

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Ance.

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Beck: I don't know that word.

259

Dash: I had not heard it before either.

260

It basically just means a

wound opens back up again.

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Beck: I should know that one well.

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Dash: But yeah, that's

what nicotine will do.

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If you have had any kind of, it

does it for both incisions and it

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would make my bone graft not take.

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And, and I need like,

that's at least a year.

266

They say like, not to

even be near nicotine.

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Beck: Yeah.

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On the, on those charts and everything.

269

I, I'm back to being a pres smoker status.

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Dash: Hell yeah.

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Beck: It's been so long.

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Yeah.

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It's been so long.

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But I was, I was a heavy smoker.

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I, I cannot be trusted at all.

276

Like I smoke one cigarette and

I'm a two pack a day smoker.

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Immediately.

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Like, it just, I have no, no limits.

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I have no boundaries.

280

That's adhd.

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Yeah.

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It was bad.

283

I would just smoke one after the other.

284

'cause as soon as I got done with

one, I was like, okay, I need

285

something to do with my hands.

286

You know?

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Dash: You know, something I, I realized,

and I don't, listeners, I'm sorry if

288

I've told this before, but, um, the,

like, I had become one of those, like,

289

I only smoke when I drink people.

290

So then I just started

drinking all the time.

291

Like, I would find excuses to drink

so that I could have cigarettes.

292

And then when I finally quit

drinking, like I was going crazy

293

and I was like, oh God, these with

withdrawals are awful, or whatever.

294

Then I just decided to smoke a

cigarette and they went away.

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They were not alcohol withdrawals,

they were nicotine withdrawals.

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And I was like, God damnit.

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All this time I have

not been an alcoholic.

298

I've been somebody who was, who would

drink just so they could have a cigarette.

299

'cause I, I've never once like that.

300

The day I stopped drinking alcohol,

I just never thought about it again.

301

Well, the day I smoked the

cigarette, the first cigarette,

302

after I quit drinking alcohol, I

never thought about alcohol again.

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Beck: Yeah.

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Dash: It was actually

kind of embarrassing.

305

I was like, that is the dumbest

reason to drink I have ever heard of.

306

Beck: Well, uh, there's,

there's been dumber, I'm sure.

307

Dash: Well, I mean, I don't know.

308

People have all kinds of reasons

for getting up to the stuff we do.

309

That's not any good for us.

310

Beck: I started smoking again my

first week of grad school, uh, or my

311

first week of, uh, of the PhD program.

312

No, was it was regular grad

school, and then I quit.

313

I was smoking in, in my master's program

and then quit and then started again.

314

My first grad, my first

PhD program finals week.

315

Somebody brought over a pack of cloves

and I didn't, I ended up quitting.

316

'cause I didn't wanna

be a doctor that smoked.

317

I felt like that would

be a hypocritical thing.

318

Even though you're not that kind

of doctor, you can be smart enough

319

to know you shouldn't be smoking.

320

So

321

Dash: I think if, if you're someone who

might wind up being somebody's role model.

322

'cause I've, I was very sensitive

about the fact that students

323

would see me smoking on campus.

324

I would do things to try to

get out of their line of sight,

325

and I would go for walks.

326

I would take my walk like after I

had lunch or something like that,

327

and that's when I would smoke

because, and I, I didn't, you know,

328

I wasn't like, they're gonna see

me doing this and think it's cool.

329

I mean, they're adults.

330

It doesn't work that way.

331

But still, I, it felt like some, in some

ways, like at odds with the role I had.

332

You know, my supervisor, he also

smoked like we would smoke together

333

and he would make fun of me.

334

He was like, I don't know why you,

you're not gonna get in trouble.

335

I don't know why you're hiding it.

336

And it's like, I know you

don't know why I'm hiding it.

337

Nobody looks up to you.

338

Beck: Right.

339

Dash: People really don't know

what it's like to have no choice

340

about whether you're a role model.

341

That's right.

342

That's, that's one kind of minority

stress that people who don't have

343

marginalized identities, they don't know

about that there's nodes blending in.

344

Everything you do is hypervisible

and everything you do is significant.

345

Beck: Right.

346

I think that's true in a lot of academics,

uh, jobs, because even my role as a

347

professor, people, like some girl, I was

talking to her yesterday and you could

348

just tell she was so nervous to be talking

to me, and it was like, girl, calm down.

349

You know?

350

I, we were just, it, it

just, it's a darling.

351

It really is.

352

But yeah, I forget sometimes that,

that we have that kind of power.

353

Dash: I do too.

354

I, and it happened when we were

grad students there when I was

355

living there, I got to know the.

356

The L-G-B-T-Q students from the student

group, and then the ones who would be

357

connected with the resource center there.

358

And there was one cohort in particular of

graduates who, you know, I, I spent a lot

359

of time mentoring and when they graduated

they sort of, they would begin to, to

360

go like, can we hang out or something?

361

Because we would do things over at Eric's.

362

I mean, remember you and Shannon

come over there a few times.

363

We would just sit around

and watch movies over there.

364

Like it was not some lit party.

365

So we were like, yeah,

we're gonna watch some.

366

I think we were watching horror movies

and we let 'em come over and they were

367

like, are we allowed to bring alcohol?

368

And I was like, I don't care what you do.

369

I mean, don't drive home

if you're gonna drink.

370

But you know, and I didn't.

371

That was like when I started to

realize that, like they really

372

thought we were super cool.

373

Beck: Wow,

374

Dash: that's Ziggy.

375

I don't know what she's doing.

376

She's just got the zoomies.

377

Beck: I would pay $5 to have

the Zoomies for like one minute.

378

Dash: The babies get them pretty often.

379

The old men, you know, maybe once or

twice a week they'll get up to it.

380

But yeah, she's, um, right now she's

running up and down the stairs as

381

fast as she can and she just likes

to talk about it while she does it.

382

Beck: She's one of those people that

jogs and talks at the same time.

383

Dash: Yeah.

384

I don't know why cats do.

385

All of mine do anyway.

386

They'll go, if they're playing by

themselves, especially upstairs,

387

you'll just hear 'em talking about it.

388

Beck: We had one talkative cat.

389

His name was Ted, who was,

he was named after Ted Talks.

390

That's how he got his name.

391

His last name was Dammit.

392

We had Ted, dammit.

393

He was a good cat.

394

Dash: He was,

395

Beck: I missed having cat.

396

I missed having a cat so much.

397

And now that baby's no longer with us.

398

We got her back yesterday, by

the way, we got the ashes back.

399

It was huge.

400

Like I was, I had gotten like a poodle

back and they're like this big, you

401

know, and the babies was like, huge.

402

It's, well, we got her paw print

and we're, they forgot to send it,

403

but they got us an ink print and

they saved some of her hair for us.

404

So,

405

Dash: wow.

406

Beck: I still can't believe she's gone.

407

This house feels so empty without her

because she had just a natural talent.

408

She was an outside dog most of her life,

so being inside was like a new thing.

409

So she had a natural talent just to be

in the way no matter where she stood.

410

Dash: Yeah, because she had

that out outside Dog energy.

411

Beck: Yeah.

412

Like no matter where she stood, she

was right in the walkway and she was

413

so big, like you didn't, you couldn't

just walk around her, you know?

414

Yeah.

415

Did you see the dog?

416

Do you, do you follow We rate dar,

we rate dogs or anything like that.

417

Dash: I don't follow them,

but I see their stuff.

418

Every now and then,

419

Beck: there was a dog this

week that they posted about.

420

He got picked up as a stray and not

only did he get out of the kennel, they

421

had him in, he got out the front door,

he bit the lock and turned the lock

422

and got out and immediately ran home.

423

Can you imagine that?

424

That's like a movie, like him busting out

to two different areas and then running

425

home before they could like, he's like,

oh shit, I gotta get home and they're

426

gonna find out I was out or whatever.

427

Dash: Yeah,

428

Beck: yeah.

429

He got caught by the dog

pound and he got out.

430

I just think that's amazing.

431

Shannon and I are going on a little

trip this weekend just to get the

432

hell out of Ohio for a, an evening.

433

Oh, our, our 22 year anniversary

was this week, so I saw

434

Dash: that.

435

Beck: Yeah.

436

Dash: Happy anniversary.

437

Beck: Thank you.

438

22 years is a long time, and it was

longer than we were with our parents.

439

I find that really interesting.

440

You know, we've been with

each other longer than we

441

were ever with our parents, so

442

Dash: yeah,

443

Beck: we're gonna go to Michigan

and get a hotel room and just

444

be out of Ohio for a night.

445

It's only like 45 minutes

from here, but it's.

446

We weren't able to travel because of baby

either, because yeah, the four hour thing

447

and she didn't travel, so she was too big.

448

Dash: Is it still like

snowing and stuff there?

449

Beck: Yeah, it hasn't really quit.

450

I had to cancel my class Wednesday night.

451

Dash: Mm-hmm.

452

Will they?

453

I woke up today and it was

blizzarding and they didn't say

454

shit about it on the weather.

455

Beck: That's kind of how it is.

456

It's like so normal.

457

Dash: Yeah.

458

Beck: Just another Tuesday

we're having a blizzard.

459

Dash: I got a bunch of like

warm things to go for outsides.

460

Beck: Nice.

461

Dash: It's about time.

462

Beck: My latest purchase was

a pair of $10 sweatpants from

463

Amazon, and they're so comfortable.

464

Dash: I've been living

the sweatpants life.

465

I don't know if I'm gonna be able

to go back to wearing clothes.

466

Beck: Yeah.

467

I showered four times in a row this week.

468

I have a day off.

469

I'm wearing nothing but sweatpants

and I'm not putting a bra

470

and I'm not doing anything.

471

I might leave the house to go through

a drive through, but that's as

472

much as I'm giving the world today.

473

I just do, you know, the spoon

theory that you have to have?

474

I do so many spoons to get through a day.

475

Showers just take so many spoons,

you know, and with my short hair

476

and everything, I get bedhead

if I even look at the bed.

477

So I have to take a shower.

478

And four in a row is just a

lot like, just so many spoons.

479

So

480

Dash: it is, it's not just the showers.

481

Everything that goes along

with it, you know, it's the

482

Beck: drying off that gets me.

483

There's just so much of me to dry off.

484

Dash: Well, and there for me, it's

like getting the clean clothes to

485

put on before I have to heat up

the bathroom because it's freezing.

486

Um, yep.

487

Beck: Same.

488

Dash: And then like, after

it's like moisturized, dirty

489

clothes, you know, brush teeth

or whatever, it's, I don't know.

490

And as I get older, the

list of shit just grows.

491

Beck: Yeah, Shanna does most

of the laundry in our house.

492

Thank goodness.

493

Dash: I would like to get

rid of some of my clothes.

494

Yeah, I just don't wear things anymore.

495

Beck: I need to too.

496

I have so many t-shirts.

497

It's ridiculous.

498

Dash: I struggle to get rid of stuff.

499

'cause so many, so much

of it is sentimental.

500

Beck: Yeah.

501

Dash: I know that that's hoarding and I

know that I inherited that from my dad.

502

Beck: I have two sets of clothes.

503

I have my work clothes and then

I have my afterschool clothes.

504

So I have two entirely

different 'cause I come home and

505

immediately change every day.

506

Dash: I noticed when I was working

in admissions that I hardly ever wore

507

anything but my EKU stuff, like the rest

of my wardrobe went totally untouched.

508

Beck: Yep.

509

Dash: So I just stopped

getting other kinds of clothes.

510

Now, I can't like, operate the closure

of jeans 'cause my, it takes two

511

hands and this hand is so stupid.

512

So I'm wearing either sweatpants or

like these, I'm very fashion forward

513

with my, I have coveralls for every.

514

I'm like, okay, this is

what you get right now.

515

Beck: I don't like coveralls.

516

'cause you have to basically

undress to go to the potty.

517

Dash: It's true.

518

You know, I, when I, as I was editing that

Jennifer's body episode, I kept thinking

519

of other things that I meant to, that we

could have talked about and it's whatever.

520

I don't wanna catch 'em all.

521

But one thing I have been thinking

about was when we were talking about

522

the like ways like that, that we as

a culture in Hollywood have these

523

cycles of how we treat women on camera.

524

Beyond just their sexualization or

objectification, but like how their

525

careers are actually the trajectory.

526

So as an example, there's a joke,

oh, what is that movie with?

527

It's got Mindy Kaley and um, Emma

Thompson in it and they're com

528

There's standup comedians there.

529

She has a late night show.

530

Beck: That doesn't sound

familiar to me at all.

531

Dash: It was okay.

532

I enjoyed it.

533

You might like it.

534

Late night 2019.

535

So the conceit is that Emma Thompson's

character was a standup comedian,

536

but she had become a late night host

and, you know, kind of lost touch.

537

And Mindy Kaling is this like

intern and she's got her finger

538

on the pulse and whatnot.

539

And there's a scene where Emma Thompson's

character decides to surprise, do a

540

surprise set at a benefit, and she sucks.

541

She's, she's doing the material

that nobody understands.

542

It's kind of like obvious.

543

She, it, it's clearly like stuff

she's read about but doesn't

544

know anything about social media.

545

And she gets really discouraged.

546

And so then she starts talking

about what it's like to be a woman

547

who grows old in Hollywood or in

or in as some form of celebrity.

548

And she says this joke where

she was like, I would have to

549

get Botox to do voice work.

550

And it's like, you know, from the

earliest days of Hollywood that's been.

551

You age out of relevance or whatever as

552

Beck: Yeah, you have a face for radio.

553

Dash: Right?

554

And, and then we've got Steve McQueen

playing a 17-year-old at the age of 32.

555

Beck: Yeah.

556

Dash: And in 1960, whatever,

32 was a hard ass 32, right.

557

These are about the hydration

queens of social media.

558

32 these days.

559

But there was that moment that's

kind of revival of the enduring.

560

Feminine presence that grows

old and grows in power.

561

And I was thinking about like where

that came from, like who floats that

562

boat and it's, it's queer culture,

particularly the gay male appreciation

563

for femininity as it ages, I think.

564

Think of how, for instance, RuPaul, he

has talked about like how he c created

565

that character, his drag persona.

566

It's a mixture of Joan Crawford actually.

567

He said, um, not Joan Crawford, but

it's the woman's name who played

568

her in Mommy dearest Faye Dunaway.

569

So like a pastiche of,

of an image, you know.

570

So he's like, it's equal parts that, and

Elvira is who he created RuPaul from.

571

Beck: Oh wow.

572

Dash: And there's, and there's

this black man underneath and it

573

kind of completes that character.

574

If you watch queer culture, especially

gay male culture drag and that aging

575

icon, Joan Rivers, Kathy Moriarty,

Kathy Moriarty's character in, but

576

I'm a cheerleader, is a drag queen.

577

Beck: I just watched

that again the other day.

578

Dash: Yeah.

579

And, and so, you know, and she's, she

was, uh, invited to be in that film

580

be because everybody, um, loves her

so much and because, but it's like,

581

not until they reach a certain age.

582

Beck: Right.

583

Dash: Can you, can you become.

584

The icon of, I don't know what that is.

585

I don't know what it's called.

586

There's probably a name for

it and I don't know it yet.

587

I didn't actually do any research.

588

I've just been thinking about like

how much, how queer an aging woman is.

589

Beck: Right.

590

That makes me think of the, the

myth of, um, Stonewall, how it

591

was supposedly happened because

that was the day Judy Garland, her

592

funeral was, did you know that?

593

Dash: I hadn't heard that.

594

Beck: The, the reason that they started

Stonewall, that's the reason they snapped.

595

It was the, the Stonewall Riot happened

on the same day as Judy Garland's funeral.

596

Dash: Okay.

597

Well, I don't, you know, I don't

know enough to, to agree or disagree.

598

Beck: I've read it in several places,

599

Dash: but I wouldn't be surprised if,

you know, even if we can't say like,

600

oh, it was a directly contributing

factor that could have been in the

601

air, I guess is a way to put it,

you know, like this loss of an icon,

602

because Judy Garland was one of those.

603

Um, sort of I, icons of queer culture,

but also the figure of Dorothy and

604

the Wizard of Oz, and that whole

association is very queer as well.

605

Like the, you know, the friend of Dorothy?

606

Beck: Yeah.

607

I do a whole little segment in one

of my lectures about Stonewall.

608

We talk about why we do pride in June

and, um, how the myth is that Marsha

609

p Johnson threw the first brick.

610

That's not true either.

611

Marsha herself has said that

she wasn't even there when

612

the first brick was thrown.

613

Yeah.

614

And the, the, the general consensus

is that it was probably a butch

615

lesbian who was working as a bouncer

that threw the first shot glass.

616

Dash: Hmm.

617

Yeah.

618

Beck: Have you ever seen, she's

beautiful when she's angry?

619

Dash: No.

620

Beck: It's a, it's all about the second

wave of feminism and it's fantastic.

621

The documentary style

622

Dash: looks like it's on Tubie.

623

Beck: It's very good.

624

I highly recommend it.

625

They even, um.

626

Rita Ma Brown, who wrote

one of my favorite books of

627

all time, Ruby Fruit Jungle.

628

I don't know if you've

ever heard of that book.

629

Dash: Yeah, you've told me about it.

630

I haven't read it though.

631

Beck: Yeah, well, she's the author

of that and she had her hand right in

632

the middle of all the feminist doings

of the second wave in the sixties and

633

seventies, so I loved that about it.

634

Dash: I mean, we, we rightly are

critical of the second wave of feminism.

635

Um, and, and we should be critical

of the idea of waves of feminism.

636

Beck: Oh yeah, I talk about that too.

637

Dash: But a lot of the theorizing that

we still rely on to this day about.

638

How to construct identity, what,

what, what our like, idea of equality

639

is and how do we, like what we

derive that from, comes from that

640

stuff, comes from those thinkers.

641

Yeah.

642

You know, Betty Friedan, you know,

plenty of things to criticize

643

about her, but where would we be

without, was it the femininity?

644

Because I was called

645

Beck: Yeah.

646

The problem that has no name.

647

Dash: Right.

648

And that goes for like the

political lesbians too.

649

Beck: I was talking about them the other

day, how there were separatists about how

650

they would even not let boy, uh, children

come into the, the communes or whatever.

651

Shannon was like, we

should find one of those.

652

Dash: Who was it that wrote

what we're rolling around with?

653

Is that Gail Rubin?

654

Beck: I don't know that one.

655

Dash: What?

656

We're rolling around

in bed with, oh my God.

657

Is it Amber Hollabaugh?

658

That's embarrassing.

659

She's one of my favorites.

660

Beck: Oh, she should send that to me.

661

Dash: Okay.

662

Yeah, it looks like, uh, something

that was written as a summary in a

663

way of, in a way of a conversation

between her and Sherry Moraga.

664

Sherry Moraga was the speaker

at our diversity award banquet

665

for the, the students last year.

666

It was the day after the fucking election.

667

Beck: Oh, wow.

668

Dash: So that would've

been the year before last.

669

Now, at this point,

670

have you read Hollabaugh?

671

The Uh,

672

Beck: no.

673

Dash: My Dangerous Desires,

674

Beck: no.

675

Dash: Should she died, I

676

She was, uh, very good

friends with Dorothy Allison.

677

I think Dorothy Allison actually

wrote the foreword or something

678

for, for my dangerous desires.

679

But, uh, so Amber Haugh is she identified

as white trash or trailer trash.

680

Alternatively, after she grew up

in extreme poverty in the trailer

681

park or a trailer park and had

an incredibly interesting life, a

682

really hard life in places, but.

683

She had this concept of the queer

survival economy, which is just people

684

who are fully disenfranchised from

real economy, the kinds of things

685

they do, these micro transactions

they create to sustain one another.

686

Beck: It makes me think of a piece

that I teach my students called

687

I Want A Wife by Judy Seifert.

688

It was the first, um, one of the

first articles printed in the first

689

MS Magazine issue that went out.

690

Um, and basically it's written

from a satirical point of view

691

and she lists all the things.

692

I want a wife that cleans up after

me and allows me to concentrate on

693

my academics and my writing life,

and, um, remembers all the birthdays

694

and the holidays and does vacuuming.

695

And then she just goes through

a whole list of things that the

696

wife would do for her, and she's

like, of course I want a wife.

697

Why wouldn't you?

698

And my, my students get a lot of feelings

about that particular essay because one of

699

the, I use it for the discussion boards.

700

I say, do you think women are still

expected to do all of these things

701

in, in the, in the 21st century?

702

You know, because that was written in

the seventies, so how much has it changed

703

in the last 50 years and not much?

704

Dash: No, I don't think the expectations

of the domestic sphere, you know,

705

like the women are expected to do more

professionally and personally and take

706

care of, you know, themselves now.

707

But no, there's no fewer

expectations on them and.

708

Terms of domesticity.

709

Beck: Yeah.

710

We talk about the second shift,

711

Dash: the history of the social

construction of the domestic sphere and

712

the public sphere in American history is

actually most, I don't wanna say most,

713

it's, it's very like heavily explored

in, uh, masculinity theory, in American

714

masculinity theory in particular.

715

Like they have the, the stages

of American masculinity.

716

I think it's communal.

717

Passionate and independent

are the, the three stages.

718

But at, at a certain point, they

needed to construct those different

719

roles for women and construct a

rationale for why they couldn't change.

720

And that was when they came up

with this idea that like, women

721

are naturally adept at domesticity,

ergo they need to stay in the home.

722

And a lot went into making that look true.

723

See people, you know, a lot of times

people will be like, well, but women are

724

more nurturing and yada yada, or whatever.

725

And it's like.

726

That's not what we mean though.

727

That's not, that doesn't

have to happen in the home.

728

Nurturing can happen anywhere.

729

Beck: Yeah.

730

Dash: What, like, let's for a second,

let's say you're right about that.

731

Let's say your bio essentialist ass is

correct, that women are more nurturing.

732

Shouldn't, wouldn't you want them

in war then or in the workplace

733

In a high pressure CEO suite?

734

You wouldn't, you know, if, if this was

a d and d party, you'd want a healer.

735

So that's not what we're talking about.

736

Well, okay.

737

Then women are, you know, should take

care of the kids or something like that.

738

It's like, whose kids?

739

Like, just because I, let's say I

as a woman am, uh, better at taking

740

care of children than any given

man doesn't have to be my kids.

741

I could go, I could get a job as a nanny

and take care of somebody else's kids.

742

So like, what they actually did

to make this look true was to make

743

public space inaccessible to women.

744

A good example is, oh fuck what building

was, was it the, ah, I think it was either

745

the Capitol, yeah, when Trump and Hillary

were doing their debates or something like

746

that and they took a restroom break and

she was late coming back to the debate.

747

Beck: I remember,

748

Dash: well, it's because there's one

women's bathroom in that whole fucking

749

building, and it's like a 20 minute

walk away from the room they were in.

750

And so like.

751

You'll, one way to, um, keep women out of

public spaces was to make it so that they

752

couldn't access the restrooms in there.

753

So that's why bathrooms are segregated

by Sex in America was to keep

754

women out of public and now they're

being used to attack trans people.

755

Beck: The bathroom debate

came up with the ERA too good.

756

The bathroom debate is

something that changes with each

757

political administration, but

it's the same argument, right?

758

But they never wanna talk about the

actual problem, which is heterosexual

759

men who go into these bathrooms Yeah.

760

That do these predators things.

761

It's not the trans women, it's

not, you know, it's not the

762

trans men doing these things.

763

It is, it is the, the, the heterosexual

generally white men, statistically

764

showing that they're the ones doing this.

765

We can talk about predators, we

can talk about sexual assault.

766

It has nothing to do with, yeah.

767

It has nothing I'd love to do with

trans people using the bathroom.

768

I showed my students a Phyllis

Schlafly Betty for Dan Debate.

769

It was on Good Morning

America about the ERA.

770

It's fantastic.

771

Yeah.

772

And in the, in that conversation

about the ERA Phyllis Schlafly, her

773

big argument was girls are gonna

be, uh, drafted if the ERA passes.

774

Right?

775

But then she also, her other

argument was the bathrooms.

776

What's gonna happen when people

start using all the same bathrooms?

777

So they were using bathrooms as

a fear tactic as early as the

778

late sixties, early seventies.

779

Dash: Yeah.

780

And, and women's bathrooms

became kind of a refuge.

781

It was the only place

they were safe from men.

782

Like they had that big like

antichamber, this culture of

783

going to the restroom in groups.

784

Uh, that's because men

aren't safe to be around.

785

Nothing to do with trans people,

but there's a couple of trans

786

sports things up in front of Scotus.

787

And, uh, Conley Barrett of all people gave

remarks that they were a bit too sweeping.

788

And it's, um, it's important

because they're starting to realize

789

that none of this shit is real.

790

That they've fallen for a

boogeyman and they're actually

791

about to legislate themselves.

792

Cis women and cis men are going to

be punished by this trans people.

793

I hate to tell y'all this, but you

have been pissing and shitting next

794

to trans people your entire life.

795

Yep.

796

We blend right the hell in the

person that's gonna be policed by

797

this is the effeminate man, the

masculine looking woman, the intersex

798

person, the non-binary person.

799

Beck: There's a lady I

follow recently on Facebook.

800

So she got posted on some right wing

website and she's straight, she has

801

kids and everything, but she has a more

masculine face and the hate that she

802

has been getting, saying, you're always

gonna be a dude, blah, blah, blah, blah.

803

Like all of the things that you

can imagine they would say to her.

804

And she's literally like, has children,

like has giant breasts, you know, like,

805

Dash: yeah,

806

Beck: I, and I realize that the trans

person can have children and the

807

trans person can have breasts and

all those kinds of things, but like.

808

Dash: Just because she could

probably kick your ass and it

809

wouldn't make you wanna fuck her.

810

That's why you're mad at her.

811

Yeah.

812

Like,

813

Beck: yeah.

814

That's the whole, you just nailed

the unfuck ability is the problem.

815

That's what people actually get mad about.

816

Dash: And it's always a joke too that

says the exact correct thing, but somebody

817

said on some social media, this whole

trans bathroom panic has taught me.

818

Conservatives, especially conservative

men, public restrooms are deeply

819

sexual places for these people.

820

Yeah.

821

And, and whatever they think is going

on in women's restrooms, they're

822

who, who we should be afraid of.

823

Beck: And in all, it was

never about the restrooms.

824

Like it was never about

the water fountains.

825

You know what I mean?

826

It's just a lot of

bullshit throwing in there.

827

Um, it's a trans panic.

828

They are totally trying

to control the narrative.

829

Look over here and, and, and hate these

people, and don't pay attention to what

830

we're doing behind the curtain here.

831

I noticed I haven't heard of any

trans people on the Epstein list.

832

Dash: No.

833

And have you noticed that

they have stopped, it's, it's

834

coming back a little bit.

835

There's a few anti-D drag bills that,

uh, that are, are worth mentioning,

836

but, uh, the discourse about all trans

people being groomers has died down.

837

And it's because they've got

to normalize pedophilia now.

838

Yeah.

839

And so they, because they're being

outed as pedophiles, like we're.

840

All that shit's gonna come out.

841

It may be after their long dead

and can, and consequences can

842

no longer be, you know, applied.

843

But it's coming out.

844

The Sasha Riley testimony

is going, it is incredible.

845

He may not have any proof, but the details

are on point and some of it is trackable.

846

Beck: Yeah.

847

Dash: And the files

themselves, blah, blah, blah.

848

Like it's, it's all gonna come out.

849

So now they've gotta normalize pedophilia

because they themselves are pedophiles.

850

So it's not as fashionable now.

851

I haven't been called

a groomer in forever.

852

Beck: Wow.

853

There's, I don't know if

you've heard about it yet.

854

Um, it's been making the

news channels around here.

855

There's a drag queen who owns a food

truck, um, that's running for office.

856

Yeah.

857

And he, he's running for, uh, Congress,

uh, sugar, I think is his drag name.

858

Yeah, like he's, he is, he's

well known in Toledo circles.

859

Like I'm, I follow some Toledo,

uh, Facebook pages and he's always

860

on there trolling people like, and

he's always really smart about it.

861

But he is running as a libertarian,

which I found interesting.

862

But people, some people are like, go on.

863

He's getting a lot of the, if

you don't even know what you are,

864

which tells me people don't even

understand the basic difference

865

between drag and trans, you know?

866

Dash: No, they don't.

867

And they don't know

anything about performance.

868

Like these are people that don't

realize they're performing their gender.

869

Beck: Yeah.

870

Dash: All the time.

871

They

872

Beck: need a good Judy b

lecture is what they need.

873

Dash: Yeah.

874

Plenty of people could do you.

875

So for a time there, have you ever

read the, the Martha Nusbaum, like

876

diatribe against Judith Butler?

877

It's called the Professor of

Parody, which was the first.

878

She read, I think it was gender Trouble,

the very first thing and was so mad that

879

Judith didn't have the answer, basically.

880

So she couldn't accept that.

881

And, and I'm not saying, you know, some

of her critiques were, I haven't read it

882

in a long time, but I remember thinking

like, okay, yeah, I see your point there.

883

But Judith Butler didn't set

out to solve gender for us.

884

She was creating an analytic, uh, and

she did a great job because to this

885

day, we can still refer to gender

trouble and if we need to to teach,

886

it's a good like text to teach from.

887

But yeah, they, they had this whole

like spat going back and forth.

888

I mean, there's academic, uh, beef that

just would shock you, the stuff people do.

889

Beck: Oh, it wouldn't,

it wouldn't shock me.

890

I've been in academia too long.

891

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: I remember

892

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745: I.

893

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745:

about the cult of True Womanhood

894

which is an older article, but

it's an idea before it's time.

895

Basically, the idea is that women

have these four kind of pillars

896

that they have to stand up to.

897

Uh, pity, domesticity,

submissiveness, and.

898

Purity, Like you can't,

you have to be a virgin.

899

And then PD, you have to be

responsible for like the, the

900

family's religious education.

901

You have to be a church going

902

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745: Mm-hmm.

903

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: You

have to be a domestic goddess and

904

you have to submit to your man.

905

Right?

906

And they've been talking about these

four pillars of womanhood from in

907

magazine articles, from like the 1830s.

908

Like this has been the idea of what a real

woman is in America for over 200 years.

909

Right.

910

200 years.

911

And it's wild to me that the expectations

of women have not changed at all.

912

But the expectations of men

have wildly changed, right?

913

Because men of that time, they

had to be good farmers and, and,

914

you know, good animal husbandry

people and, and things like that.

915

And men don't need that nowadays.

916

Most of them don't.

917

Anyway.

918

So what it takes to be a

man is very different than

919

what it takes to be a woman.

920

But yet, we don't change.

921

We don't adapt.

922

There's so many things that you

could say about a woman that are

923

outside of those four pillars.

924

There's so much more to being a

woman than just those four things.

925

And to reduce it down to

just, that is wild to me.

926

But it, it doesn't change.

927

It's, they still expect

the same out of us.

928

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745:

No, that's a good point.

929

Like you can tell that something is not.

930

It doesn't have you

know, agency or freedom.

931

If it doesn't evolve, it's like femininity

is so Constrained, confined, policed,

932

controlled, uh, and you know, going

back to what we were talking about

933

earlier, that only happens by design.

934

People would love to act like, oh,

it just, well, men are just, they

935

just happen to be better at war.

936

Men happen to be better.

937

That's a kind of war men wage, like.

938

And then, oh God, did you see?

939

I probably not, but, so

there's this terminally online

940

pick me bitch named Pearl.

941

Just pearly things is

her, like online stuff.

942

She hangs out in the manosphere.

943

It's, she's dreadful.

944

And she decided, I don't know what got

into her tiny P brain, she decided to

945

debate, literally standing on a stage

behind a podium and a kiss, like.

946

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745:

know who that is.

947

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745:

She's a, a political analyst.

948

Uh, you'd know her if you saw her, and

she's like, she has a, a tongue, right?

949

Like she's silver tongue.

950

She, she's just cuts right to the quick.

951

It is one of the most, it's like

cr, it's super embarrassing.

952

Like you get secondhand embarrassment

from watching it because what, what

953

Pearl and these manosphere dudes do.

954

And so she just like copies what they

say is like the shit about like, well

955

alimony, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

956

It's unfair.

957

And she'll, and there's

the made up statistics.

958

So it's one thing she said was like.

959

90% of court custody

cases go the mom's way.

960

And, and experience said like,

that sounds wildly inaccurate.

961

Is that made up?

962

Where are you citing that from?

963

And she's, Pearl doesn't get asked that

because they just, they all in that,

964

in that manosphere, they just trade

these fake facts around each other.

965

Like this is their currency.

966

And she short circuited.

967

She, she just like.

968

Dropped the microphone and stared out

into the dis, I think she dissociated

969

for 30 seconds of just dead air silence.

970

And this happened multiple

times in this debate.

971

And it got to the point where Ann

Experian, I think she was a little

972

concerned about her 'cause she

was like, this isn't going well.

973

Do we need to stop?

974

But there's, you know, that whole like.

975

Well, men suicidality you know, all

these manosphere talking points, but

976

what you're describing is patriarchy.

977

You, what you're describing is how you

are struggling under patriarchy, and I

978

would love for that to change for you.

979

But what I need you to

recognize is the fact that.

980

It's you that set it up that way.

981

It's masculinity, it's patriarchy that

has set your misery in motion here.

982

And that that always breaks down.

983

Like they just don't, they

can't talk about that.

984

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: Gotta love it.

985

I did, at least, I didn't have

anybody tell me they don't

986

use pronouns this semester.

987

So there's that though I do start my

conversation when, because the way

988

that I do it is I, uh, the first day

of classes I have an attendance sheet

989

and I take a stab at their last name

and then they can tell me the first

990

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745: Yeah.

991

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: they wanna use.

992

And before I even got started, I was like,

and don't tell me you don't use pronouns.

993

I will make fun of you all semester

if you tell me something like that.

994

And so nobody tells me that shit.

995

So.

996

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745: Uh, some

people just, they need to pick a struggle.

997

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: Yeah.

998

dash_22_01-16-2026_141745: Well, did

you bring a noun of Appalachian interest

999

beck_23_01-16-2026_151745: I did.

00:42:44,581 --> 00:42:45,121

I did.

00:42:45,321 --> 00:42:45,741

All right.

00:42:45,741 --> 00:42:49,311

Today's noun of Appalachian

interest is blinko glass.

00:42:49,551 --> 00:42:52,341

If you grew up anywhere near

West Virginia, there's a decent

00:42:52,341 --> 00:42:53,751

chance you've seen blinko glass.

00:42:53,751 --> 00:42:57,111

Without realizing it, it might've been

on a window sill at your grandma's

00:42:57,111 --> 00:42:58,761

house, catching the afternoon sun.

00:42:59,061 --> 00:43:01,581

It might've been holding sweet

tea, or it might've been that one

00:43:01,581 --> 00:43:03,081

vase everyone warned you about.

00:43:03,286 --> 00:43:04,006

Don't touch that.

00:43:04,006 --> 00:43:04,726

That's Blinko.

00:43:05,126 --> 00:43:09,446

William j Blinko, an English glass

00:43:09,446 --> 00:43:13,346

maker who knew his way around hot

furnaces long before he came to the us.

00:43:13,766 --> 00:43:17,576

After a few moves and false starts, the

company landed in Milton, West Virginia

00:43:17,576 --> 00:43:20,306

00:43:20,576 --> 00:43:23,066

Turns out Appalachia was a good

place for people who knew how

00:43:23,066 --> 00:43:24,806

to work with fire and patience.

00:43:25,206 --> 00:43:30,226

first, Blinko made flat Glass for stained

glass windows later on, especially during

00:43:30,226 --> 00:43:34,126

the hard years of the Great Depression,

they started making colorful glassware,

00:43:34,186 --> 00:43:38,656

VAEs, pitchers, bottles, things people

could actually use in their homes.

00:43:38,926 --> 00:43:42,256

That shift helped keep the company going

when a lot of others didn't make it.

00:43:42,656 --> 00:43:46,226

Every piece of Blinko glass is

still hand blown shaped by people

00:43:46,226 --> 00:43:48,026

using breath tools and timing.

00:43:48,326 --> 00:43:51,476

No machine spitting out identical

co copies, and that's why no

00:43:51,476 --> 00:43:53,246

two pieces look exactly alike.

00:43:53,486 --> 00:43:56,846

One might lean, a little, one might

have bubbles, and that's not a mistake.

00:43:56,846 --> 00:43:57,801

It's proof that someone made it.

00:43:58,405 --> 00:44:00,205

The colors are also part of the legend.

00:44:00,535 --> 00:44:04,015

Deep blues, greens, yellows, reds,

glass that looks like it belongs

00:44:04,015 --> 00:44:05,635

in the sunlight and opens curtains.

00:44:06,128 --> 00:44:07,898

You don't hide blinko

unless you're scared.

00:44:07,898 --> 00:44:09,218

Somebody's gonna knock it over.

00:44:09,458 --> 00:44:12,218

You set it out where it can be

seen because it earned that spot.

00:44:13,051 --> 00:44:16,351

very appalachian about blinko,

both being art and practical.

00:44:16,561 --> 00:44:19,321

It can be fancy, but it can

also hold water, flowers, or

00:44:19,321 --> 00:44:20,731

whatever drink you've got ready.

00:44:21,031 --> 00:44:23,371

It says I, I look nice,

but I have a job to do.

00:44:23,771 --> 00:44:26,981

if you've ever been to the Blinko factory

and watched glass being made, you know

00:44:26,981 --> 00:44:31,241

how it feels like half magic and half like

you're watching someone cook with lava.

00:44:31,571 --> 00:44:33,821

It's hot, fast, and steady all at once.

00:44:34,061 --> 00:44:37,241

You walk out knowing you just saw a

skill that has to be passed down, not

00:44:37,241 --> 00:44:39,341

rushed, not automated, just practiced.

00:44:39,731 --> 00:44:42,791

So that's today's noun, not just

glass, not just history, but West

00:44:42,791 --> 00:44:46,961

Virginia Glass made by people who

stayed, adapted and kept making

00:44:46,961 --> 00:44:48,581

something worth sitting in the window.

00:44:48,981 --> 00:44:49,731

00:44:50,060 --> 00:44:51,560

it really is a well-known thing,

00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,150

especially around the Huntington area.

00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:54,980

Like Blinko is world famous.

00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,830

Shanna wants, wants a, a glass fish

like her grandmother had, so we're gonna

00:44:58,830 --> 00:45:00,240

have to have one of those at some time.

00:45:00,580 --> 00:45:03,040

And I've bought her a couple of

Blinko pieces over the years.

00:45:03,370 --> 00:45:04,810

But I've never had it myself.

00:45:04,810 --> 00:45:08,380

Shanna has some, but I've been to the

factory and watched him make it before.

00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:09,520

That's really interesting.

00:45:09,925 --> 00:45:12,305

bet I didn't know anything about it.

00:45:12,305 --> 00:45:16,005

Like, I don't know, it probably wasn't

much of a thing where I grew up, but glass

00:45:16,005 --> 00:45:18,435

in general, like glassware was a big deal.

00:45:18,435 --> 00:45:19,665

Like people collected,

00:45:20,065 --> 00:45:20,485

00:45:20,935 --> 00:45:23,605

grandparents on my dad's side, their

00:45:23,605 --> 00:45:29,495

basement, all the walls were shells just

lined with what were probably prohibition

00:45:29,495 --> 00:45:35,955

era liquor bottles, but they were just

interesting colors and like blown glass.

00:45:36,355 --> 00:45:38,215

have an acquaintance that works there.

00:45:38,285 --> 00:45:38,975

00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:41,730

friends with my ex and then we worked

00:45:41,730 --> 00:45:44,550

together at Amazon, but she was

kind of cool to me the whole time.

00:45:44,890 --> 00:45:46,210

But so I call her an acquaintance.

00:45:46,210 --> 00:45:47,290

Anyway, she works there.

00:45:47,290 --> 00:45:48,610

She's one of their managers now.

00:45:48,940 --> 00:45:49,930

And seems to love it.

00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,957

So I think it, I, Shannon

would love to get into blowing

00:45:52,957 --> 00:45:53,917

glass and stuff like that.

00:45:53,917 --> 00:45:56,197

It's just an expensive

hobby and hard to get into.

00:45:56,437 --> 00:45:59,237

there's a glass bowling competition

00:45:59,237 --> 00:46:05,637

show I watched for a while, but the

American versions of like the artisan

00:46:05,697 --> 00:46:07,677

competition shows are not good.

00:46:08,077 --> 00:46:12,540

I, the British various universe of.

00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:17,620

Competitions like Bakeoff and

sewing, bee pottery, Throwdown, all

00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:19,450

that stuff, they're really elite.

00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:22,990

They like created the, the

mold and it's a culture.

00:46:22,990 --> 00:46:26,651

Americans don't compete like British

people do, Like Americans are out here

00:46:26,651 --> 00:46:30,011

like fucking sabotaging each other,

talking shit, forming alliances.

00:46:30,636 --> 00:46:35,576

Can you imagine a bunch of potters forming

an alliance like they're on Survivor?

00:46:35,976 --> 00:46:38,016

can, that was Shana's specialty in,

00:46:38,016 --> 00:46:42,636

in, in college was, uh, ceramics

and so there it was very cliquey.

00:46:42,816 --> 00:46:43,386

So I can

00:46:43,516 --> 00:46:43,806

00:46:43,896 --> 00:46:44,676

like that happening.

00:46:50,054 --> 00:46:53,504

made like two things in high school.

00:46:53,504 --> 00:46:56,324

We were really lucky at that, you

know, high school I went to and talked

00:46:56,324 --> 00:46:57,644

about how, what a good school it was.

00:46:58,034 --> 00:47:02,964

And they had a, the, the art room

was just filled with materials.

00:47:02,964 --> 00:47:04,764

It had a full size walk-in kiln.

00:47:05,184 --> 00:47:08,933

Like we got to try all kind, play

with all kinds of cool techniques.

00:47:09,333 --> 00:47:12,223

So I, I made a few sculptures,

I guess you'd call 'em.

00:47:12,223 --> 00:47:14,263

They weren't, uh, pottery, but.

00:47:14,663 --> 00:47:17,393

I found I have found most

art very frustrating.

00:47:17,393 --> 00:47:18,948

I'm just not particularly good at it

00:47:19,348 --> 00:47:22,138

have never tried pottery before that,

00:47:22,138 --> 00:47:25,288

which is surprising since that's her,

was her whole world for several years.

00:47:25,658 --> 00:47:28,508

I've just never had the opportunity

to get my hands in clay like that.

00:47:28,558 --> 00:47:32,498

I'd love to try it, but I did have

to take two drawing classes as an

00:47:32,498 --> 00:47:36,428

undergrad as part of my major My

associate's degree was in it, and

00:47:36,428 --> 00:47:38,318

you know how many websites you draw.

00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:41,320

It still doesn't make any sense to

me why I had to take drawing classes.

00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,010

But I'm still glad I took 'em because I

learned how to basically make a, a generic

00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:49,700

representation of something Like, I'm

not gonna make, I, I could draw my table

00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:53,630

and tv, but, and it would look like my

table and tv, but it wouldn't be exact.

00:47:53,630 --> 00:47:55,610

The proportions would be

wrong and that kind of thing.

00:47:55,940 --> 00:48:00,600

But taking a drawing class really teaches

you how to see things like objects.

00:48:01,090 --> 00:48:03,490

as far as being able to reproduce.

00:48:03,550 --> 00:48:07,763

Like I could, I could go like, all right,

I can draw that because I'm looking at it.

00:48:08,003 --> 00:48:12,743

I can, I can use, you know, this,

this particular technique or

00:48:12,743 --> 00:48:15,233

skill to create this illusion.

00:48:15,653 --> 00:48:20,313

But what frustrated me was like

never getting to a place where I

00:48:20,313 --> 00:48:24,423

could take what I saw in my mind's

eye and make it in real life.

00:48:24,823 --> 00:48:26,833

I don't think I've ever

once had that happen.

00:48:27,728 --> 00:48:28,958

I have with photography.

00:48:28,958 --> 00:48:31,358

With photography was where

I found my, my niche.

00:48:31,758 --> 00:48:32,808

I didn't take photography.

00:48:32,838 --> 00:48:33,318

00:48:33,738 --> 00:48:34,848

Well, I worked at a studio,

00:48:35,208 --> 00:48:35,718

00:48:35,958 --> 00:48:37,728

learned hands on, I did take every

00:48:37,728 --> 00:48:40,488

photography class I could get my

hands on when I was an undergrad.

00:48:40,888 --> 00:48:43,138

was so prohibitively expensive.

00:48:43,538 --> 00:48:46,058

especially when I got into it because it

00:48:46,058 --> 00:48:48,038

was when the digital divide was coming.

00:48:48,333 --> 00:48:48,553

00:48:48,668 --> 00:48:51,038

getting harder to find and more expensive

00:48:51,038 --> 00:48:54,908

and the chemicals were more expensive and

even buying a camera was more expensive.

00:48:54,968 --> 00:48:58,038

'cause the film ones were it

was a weird time because now

00:48:58,038 --> 00:48:59,328

they're still making film cameras.

00:48:59,328 --> 00:49:00,378

They started new lines.

00:49:00,378 --> 00:49:01,458

People are going back to film

00:49:01,788 --> 00:49:02,298

00:49:02,298 --> 00:49:02,568

Yeah.

00:49:02,968 --> 00:49:04,348

Well, it's kitsch now.

00:49:04,618 --> 00:49:07,678

It's, you know, people are

like, oh, it's nostalgic.

00:49:07,798 --> 00:49:07,918

You know?

00:49:07,918 --> 00:49:07,978

It

00:49:08,428 --> 00:49:08,758

00:49:08,788 --> 00:49:10,468

comes back around to that, I think.

00:49:10,868 --> 00:49:11,258

00:49:11,658 --> 00:49:11,838

Yeah.

00:49:11,838 --> 00:49:13,308

I used to be pretty good at photography.

00:49:13,308 --> 00:49:16,248

I used, I used, I mean, I, I was the

head photographer at a business that

00:49:16,248 --> 00:49:21,238

was very successful, so we did babies

and weddings and high school seniors

00:49:21,238 --> 00:49:23,548

and old couples and whole families and

00:49:23,948 --> 00:49:27,648

used to carry those disposable cameras.

00:49:27,648 --> 00:49:31,398

I would buy them just by the arm

load and take pictures a lot.

00:49:31,798 --> 00:49:37,858

And I had thousands of photos of

just all the places I had been.

00:49:37,858 --> 00:49:41,158

I traveled all around a lot when

I was younger and at some 0.1

00:49:41,158 --> 00:49:44,938

place or another that I was living

or crashing, they disappeared.

00:49:45,338 --> 00:49:48,788

And I know I'll never, you know,

there's no way I'll never find those.

00:49:49,188 --> 00:49:51,888

But they exist somewhere, which

is really weird to me sometimes,

00:49:51,888 --> 00:49:54,018

like sometimes I'll think about the

fact that like somebody has those.

00:49:54,939 --> 00:49:55,359

00:49:56,007 --> 00:50:00,137

when my mom died, that was a really hard

time for me and just getting outta bed

00:50:00,137 --> 00:50:02,297

sometimes was a very difficult task.

00:50:02,777 --> 00:50:04,877

So I gave myself assignments.

00:50:04,877 --> 00:50:08,187

There was a really cool park in

Bowling Green called the Simpson

00:50:08,187 --> 00:50:10,467

Garden Park, and it's beautiful.

00:50:10,707 --> 00:50:13,467

They have several different gardens

within it, and there's a walking

00:50:13,467 --> 00:50:14,887

track and there's art all through it.

00:50:15,614 --> 00:50:18,284

I would give myself assignments and

I would just take my cell phone.

00:50:18,284 --> 00:50:19,694

I wouldn't even take my big camera.

00:50:19,694 --> 00:50:22,544

I would take my cell phone and I

would give myself assignments to

00:50:22,544 --> 00:50:25,724

take like, like one of my assignments

was Rainbow, so I'd have to take.

00:50:25,724 --> 00:50:27,224

A picture of something of every color.

00:50:27,274 --> 00:50:31,874

While I was at the park or dramatic, uh,

dramatic bitches was one, was one of my

00:50:31,874 --> 00:50:36,344

categories because there's lots of flowers

out there that are very dramatic bitches.

00:50:36,624 --> 00:50:40,454

So that would, dead things like you'd

only take pictures of dead flowers

00:50:40,454 --> 00:50:42,974

or dead trees or things like, I had

all kinds of little assignments,

00:50:43,304 --> 00:50:46,304

but it kept me interested in

something and kept me getting outta

00:50:46,304 --> 00:50:48,314

bed and going outside and walking

00:50:48,699 --> 00:50:48,989

00:50:49,184 --> 00:50:53,324

and it really helped me get through.

00:50:53,724 --> 00:50:57,154

The, the two years after I lost

mom when we moved down to to

00:50:57,154 --> 00:50:59,554

Portsmouth, I really missed it.

00:50:59,554 --> 00:51:01,864

That was something that was one of

the hardest things for me to give up,

00:51:02,284 --> 00:51:03,544

but there was nothing like that down

00:51:03,604 --> 00:51:04,054

00:51:04,454 --> 00:51:05,924

yeah, I love taking pictures.

00:51:06,124 --> 00:51:07,864

have to have a photography challenge.

00:51:08,264 --> 00:51:08,714

00:51:09,114 --> 00:51:11,514

set us all one and we'll make a, we'll

00:51:11,514 --> 00:51:13,434

make a, a thread or something about it.

00:51:13,834 --> 00:51:14,284

00:51:14,684 --> 00:51:16,364

Well, I gotta get back to work.

00:51:16,764 --> 00:51:18,564

I forgot you were working today.

00:51:18,864 --> 00:51:19,884

00:51:20,284 --> 00:51:21,844

we're taking the next two days off,

00:51:21,844 --> 00:51:23,164

so I've gotta get shit done today.

00:51:23,164 --> 00:51:25,654

And then I don't have class on Monday

because of Martin Luther King Day.

00:51:25,714 --> 00:51:26,104