Episode Summary: This is a rebroadcast from another podcast, 'Talaterra', in which Tania Marien interviewed Sarah Johnson about her COP26 Experience 

EPISODE NOTES (original) 

‘In this episode, Sarah Johnson talks about her experience at the United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) and offers her thoughts about building relationships and addressing climate change. 

Sarah is a landscape-based environmental educator. As a freelance science educator, she is focused on climate change, public lands, watershed science, civics, and geography, and teaching and learning through her business, Wild Rose Education. She designs and facilitates educator professional development workshops, teaches public lands courses, teaches International Arctic Buoy Program STEM programs, and facilitates a Colorado cohort of climate change educators. Sarah has created and facilitated numerous environmental education programs including the award-winning Youth Water Leadership Program.  

Sarah is currently a  PolarTREC educator, Spirituality and EE eePro Group Moderator, Guidelines for Excellence eePro Group Moderator, and also a student of the Living School at the Center for Action and Contemplation. Sarah has been based in western Colorado working to protect rivers and public lands through education since 2004 where she enjoys playing outside during all seasons, gardening, and making music. 

Follow Sarah’s Arctic Expeditions   

Learn more about and join the U.S. ACE Coalition 

Read more about Sarah’s UNFCCC COP26 experience through her blog. 

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) 

More about Sarah and how she founded Wild Rose Education’ 

Follow Tania’s work and listen to more Talaterra episodes 

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit  thecarbonalmanac.org 

Want to join in the conversation? 

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.  

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up! 

You can find out more about COP26 on page 240 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website, you can tap the footnotes link and type in 128. 

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang 

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France.  

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater. 

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

3

Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

4

Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

8

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

9

In our conversations, we share ideas.

10

Perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

12

Leekei: Hi, it's Nikki.

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And welcome to today's

episode of carbon sessions.

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Today, we're bringing you a special

rebroadcast from Tara, Tara.

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A podcast hosted by Tanya Marin, a

member of the Coban Almanac network.

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Tanya is an independent

environmental education professional.

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And in this episode, she speaks with Sarah

Johnson about her observer experience at

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the cup climate conference in Glasgow.

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Those are wonder.

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Cup stands for conference of the parties.

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Which is an annual global summit we're

world leaders, scientists, and activists.

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Come together on the United

nations to negotiate and review

23

policies regarding climate change.

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Sarah attended cop 26 in

the capacity of an observer.

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And unlike negotiators who

actively participate in crafting

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and agreeing to policy decisions.

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Observers monitor and

report on the proceedings.

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They provide transparency,

gather insights.

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And share information with the broader

public, but observers do not engage in

30

the negotiation processes themselves.

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Sara's reflection from the event of

filled with excitement, O N humility.

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I'll bring a blend of diverse,

worldviews and rich human experiences.

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She underscores the complexity

of climate discussions.

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Reminding us that they

are really simple answers.

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Sarah also highlights the impactful

role of art and storytelling in

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spreading the message of climate

urgency and climate justice.

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So let's tune in.

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Welcome to Talaterra, a podcast

about freelance educators working

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in natural resource fields

and environmental education.

40

Who are these educators?

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What do they do?

42

Join me and let's find out together.

43

This is your host, Tanya Marion.

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Today, my guest is Sarah Johnson.

45

Sarah is a freelance science educator

whose specialty areas are climate change,

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public lands, watershed science, civics,

geography, and teaching and learning.

47

Sarah leads educator professional

development workshops, teaches

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public lands courses, teaches

programs for the International Arctic

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Buoy Program and leads a Colorado

cohort of climate change educators.

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Sarah's created and facilitated

many environmental education

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programs, including the award winning

Youth Water Leadership Program.

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In November 2021, Sarah had the

opportunity to attend the United Nations

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Climate Change Conference of the Parties.

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usually referred to as COP26.

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In this episode, Sarah takes

us to Scotland and shares

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her experience at this event.

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Thank you, Sarah, for stopping by

to be on the show and to share your

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experience in Glasgow with us at COP26.

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It's wonderful to be here with you.

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Thanks for the invitation.

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From what I've read in the summary, or

from the UN's summary about the Climate

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Change Conference in Glasgow, There

were 40, 000 registered participants,

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and that of those 40, 000, there were

14, 000 or more than 14, 000 observers

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there, and you were there as an observer.

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And so I was wondering, how were

you able to participate in that

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capacity at that landmark event?

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And so if you could explain, um, what

the observers did or were able to do and

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how you were able to join in that way.

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It all comes down to relationships.

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I have been working with an organization

in Minnesota called Climate Generation

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that many folks are familiar with

that are, Climate Generation is a

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lead climate education organization,

not only in the Northern Midwest, but

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now I would say all over the country.

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And they host a summer institute for

education, for climate change education.

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And educators, both formal and non formal

educators, are encouraged to participate.

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And because it has gone virtual since

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for different regions of the country.

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And they called me and said, would

you like to be a regional cohort

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leader in the summer of 2020?

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And no one knew what that exactly meant

or how that was going to play out.

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And I said, sure, let's

figure it out together.

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Before that, I had been in

relationships with leading climate

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change education professionals across

the country through conferences

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and other professional networks.

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And they knew about me and so then

I've grown those relationships and

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in September, I was reaching out

to colleagues and mentors, just

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checking in on the, the playing

field of environmental education.

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Like, where are we and

where are we headed?

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And what shall I do next?

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And somebody said from Climate Generation

said, you should come to Glasgow with us.

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And I was like, Really?

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And so they know of a there's a

charter high school outside of

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the Twin Cities that has typically

taken students to United Nations

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climate meetings in the past.

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And because of COVID, those students

were unable to travel this year.

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And so in this last minute

timeframe, I'm They were looking

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for educators to take their places.

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The administration was passing

those observer badges forward.

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And so anyway, long story short is

that I was offered one of those badges,

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along with a few other really awesome

educators from around the country.

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And we went as a civil society

or observers, as you said, and so

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in addition to the relationships

specifically with climate generation, I

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also am part of something called the U.

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S.

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ACE Coalition, and ACE stands for the

Action for Climate Empowerment Coalition.

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And many people, including you who are

listening to this podcast, probably

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are doing the work of ACE and probably

should join the ACE coalition.

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Everyone's welcome.

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And the work of the ACE coalition is

to be advocates for six big buckets

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of empowerment around climate change.

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And those big buckets are education,

training, public awareness.

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access to information, public

participation, international

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collaboration, and then all of that

through a lens of climate justice.

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And the Action for Climate Empowerment

language is actually United

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Nations language and it's something

bigger than the United States.

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And we are all around the world encouraged

or directed by the United Nations to be

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finding ways to put this idea into action

within all of our climate policy work and

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climate, all climate work of all kinds.

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And it's a people centered

focus for climate change work.

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And so there was a whole group

of us who were part of the U.

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S.

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ACE coalition.

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And.

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We were not all of that coalition was

able to attend, but a large handful of

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us from America were, and I was there

and I was part of press conferences

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and media blitzes and all kinds of

different things that were happening.

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All around supporting the

ACE framework or the ACE, the

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Action for Climate Empowerment

within the larger negotiations.

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That's just sounds wonderful.

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So exciting.

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So you find out that you have a badge

that you can use and that you have

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the opportunity to go to Glasgow.

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And how much notice did you have?

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I found out two and a half weeks

before I flew away that I was

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going to get to go to Scotland.

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That's good.

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And so nothing like traveling

during a global pandemic, let

138

alone to a global meeting of people

from all around the world and all

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within a very short timeframe to

have international travel set up.

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And so it was, it was all consuming.

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And thankfully I, I mean, the only

reason I was able to say yes is

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because I did have that flexibility

as an independent Person as an

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independent business, I didn't have

to ask the committee for permission.

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I didn't have to do much.

145

I did sit on it.

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I think for maybe 24 hours, it may

have been more like 18 hours before I

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said absolutely yes, because I was so

excited, but I, yeah, I pulled all of it

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together between the United Airlines, the

United Nations and the United Kingdom.

149

It was, it was a really,

it was quite challenging.

150

And like I said, it was all

consuming before I went.

151

And in addition to the logistics

of getting there, it was also the

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storytelling and the people in my

community wanting to know that I was

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going and then being able to be available

for PR and press and media things.

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So that story could be told.

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People here in rural Colorado, there

are local community radio station and

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our newspapers and my own media outlets

of all the social media and websites

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and emails and really leveraging this

opportunity as from a professional

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development perspective, but also from

a credibility development perspective.

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I have a lot of credibility, but

it just was such an opportunity to.

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To really keep Wildrose education

on the map as well, I mean, as I

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mean myself on the map as well.

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And so it was navigating all of

those pieces as well as trying

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to figure out what in the world

my role was in supporting the U.

164

S.

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ACE coalition and understanding,

kind of getting brought up to

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speed on all those details.

167

And then dealing with COVID and lodging

and food and the food was, yeah,

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the food wasn't that complicated.

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It was the lodging and just

all the logistics of travel.

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How did you resolve the lodging

issue on such short order?

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Did they already have things set up?

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So many people probably have watched

in the news or heard throughout

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media that Glasgow lodging

became outrageously expensive.

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And basically the people there were

gouging of the people coming to the COP26.

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But then there was this, like,

fringe organization that got set

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up called the COP26 Coalition.

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And they did all kinds of stuff

outside of the formal conference of

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the parties, is what COP stands for.

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And one of the things they did was set up

a, something called the Homestay Network.

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And they found, uh, oodles of

people across the city and the

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surrounding area in Scotland around

Glasgow to offer up bedrooms and

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couches and all kinds of situations.

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And so I pieced together a

couple different homestays.

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One was with a gentleman and his wife

who were super involved in climate

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justice work through their church.

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So it was fascinating to show up and be in

their house and then share some stories.

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And then I also, I had

to piece it together.

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I couldn't find one place for 12 days.

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And so I also ended up staying at a

young couple's house and that one was a

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PhD student and one was in med school.

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And.

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And again, they were looking for ways

to contribute and be part of this

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massive movement and metropolitan

event that was taking over their city.

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And so this was one

way they could do that.

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And it was really cool because then I got

to actually see people from Scotland and

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from Glasgow and when you're at a global

event, you don't necessarily meet that

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many people from the place where you are.

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They're from everywhere else.

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So that was really nice.

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And then I also stayed a few

nights with a group of people.

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Um, colleagues and friends actually

from Boulder, Colorado, and they

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had rented an apartment and they

generously offered to share some

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of their space for a couple nights.

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So it was a piecemeal thing and

I, but I, but it worked and I

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just had very light luggage.

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So I moved around the city

on trains and buses and.

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I used a lot of public transportation,

so that was wonderful that was available.

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Okay, so you get this spontaneous

invitation, you have a badge,

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you get yourself on a plane,

you have accommodations that

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you put together, and you go.

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get to go to COP26.

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So what did you get to do as an observer?

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What was a typical day like for you?

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I think we have to back up a step

and explain that there's basically

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two different COPs going on,

Conference of the Parties, right?

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There is the very formal actual treaty

body that's having negotiations on

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behalf of our governmental institutions,

like the United States of America.

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And then there's this.

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What we might call the metropolitan

cop, which is all the civil society,

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all the hoopla, all the energy, all

the side meetings, all the protests

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of marches, this whole other thing.

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And so I was part of all of that.

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I was not part of the governmental

treaty, um, body negotiations.

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That was very.

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I'm not even sure I knew where

that was actually happening.

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Apparently it was somewhere in this

conference facility that was taking over

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a humongous amount of geographic space.

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And civil society or observers were

not welcome into those spaces, so

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I don't even know where they were.

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But in my role as a, it was called

an, um, yeah, an observer, I.

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got to be part of what's

called the Blue Zone.

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And so also at COP there are the

Blue Zone and the Green Zone.

233

And the Blue Zone is for people with

badges and the Green Zone is for

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more of whoever shows up in the city.

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And it was held at the Science

Museum across the river.

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And the blue zone is all

this conference like space.

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And it's like a massive trade

show, like the biggest trade

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show you've ever been to.

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And instead of like booths at a trade

show, they called them pavilions.

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And each country was invited,

or I'm not exactly sure how that

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came about, but many countries had

pavilions in this massive trade show.

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And, as well as constituent groups

and other entities like the Nature

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Conservancy had their own, their

own pavilion, as an example.

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And so within that space, I, there was

a lot of hoopla and never ending energy.

245

It was constant.

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I think I figured out that we'd walked

about, I think I'd walked 15 miles in

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a day, according to my step counter on

my phone, but, and so you get up early,

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you, I had gone to the grocery store

and bought food for breakfast and.

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Made simple breakfast, navigated all

the transportation the train typically

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took, depending on which place I was

staying, it took at least two trains and

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sometimes a bus to get to the place and

then to get through all the like five

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layers of security between the COVID test.

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Oh, I, I forgot.

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We started at home with COVID

testing every single day.

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And then you had to upload

that information onto the

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National Health Board website.

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So anyway, there's five levels of

security just to get into the conference

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center, and I don't know if it's, I've

never been to an event so big, and

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social distancing was, had like, forget

that, it was like walking into a place

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where COVID didn't exist, except that

everyone was wearing masks, and a huge

261

percentage of people, like 98 percent of

folks declared that they had vaccines.

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And so it felt actually pretty safe.

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But from a covid perspective,

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good afternoon all cop delegates.

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We camely remind you to wear your

face mask over your mouth and noise

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at all times during your time.

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And we would wait in line and

in, in the British vernacular

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instead of waiting in light.

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It's called queuing.

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I became a professional, um, at

queuing for a very long time every day.

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And um, so once you're

finally in to the blue zone.

272

Which sometimes it took from the time I

left the, where I was staying to actually

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get through the metal detectors and all

the way in about an hour and a half to

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two hours just to get into the conference.

275

So this was not like any conference

you've ever been to where you just come

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and go and you walk down the street

for coffee and then you come back.

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None of that.

278

It was very, um, humongous.

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And so.

280

In the Blue Zone, I tried to navigate

schedules and figure out who was speaking

281

where, and we had a representation

from America of different governmental

282

leaders and legislators and people like

Gina McCarthy and Leonardo DiCaprio was

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there, I mean, he's not a government,

there were speakers happening all the

284

time, you just had to figure out how to

navigate about 12 different schedules.

285

And the schedules weren't

printed until the night before

286

typically, and at like 10 o'clock.

287

So exhausting is what it was.

288

And it was like in every direction

and like physically exhausting, it was

289

mentally overwhelming and emotionally

it was, it was absolutely exhausting

290

because you'd be trying to keep

track of what was actually happening

291

in the actual negotiations, which.

292

Was very challenging, but then

you'd listen, you'd stand in line

293

or queue, be in the queue next

to people from all over the world

294

listening, and I just talk to people.

295

I would be like, so where are you from?

296

And then I would ask them like questions

of, so what's, how is climate change

297

affecting Your family or your town

and the stories I would hear firsthand

298

from people from literally around the

world was unbelievably eye opening.

299

And so there was a lot of that.

300

And then you'd hear, you'd hear of

this unbelievable trauma of these

301

communities around climate change impacts.

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But then you turn around and you

talk to somebody else and it'd be

303

like the most inspiring climate

action story you've ever heard.

304

And so it's just kind

of a yo yo of emotions.

305

And so.

306

What did you become aware

of while in Glasgow?

307

I mean, what, what surprised you

that you didn't know, that you

308

didn't know maybe one thing that

you, that surprised you the most?

309

And then if you could then also follow

that then with a, an inspirational

310

story, something that, that moved you.

311

I think the most surprising thing

is that I thought I had a global

312

understanding of climate change.

313

And as someone who is so in that work and

so committed to this work and has been

314

for so many years, ground was pulled out

from under me to realize, and I realized

315

that, I have so much more learning to do

to understand what climate change really

316

means in places all around the world.

317

And understanding this complexity

and nuance and so many layers of

318

just so many layers of complexity.

319

And, and I, like I said, I thought

I understood and I, and I found

320

out that I don't and, or that

I, that I have a great start.

321

And I think.

322

That's probably true for a lot of people.

323

I don't think I'm the only one in that.

324

Um, as far as something that was

inspiring, some of the most inspiration

325

that I left Glasgow with is knowing

that I had found my people in America

326

because of the pandemic, so much of.

327

All these relationships that I have

grown in the last couple of years have

328

always been pixels on a screen or over

the phone, and I'd never actually been

329

able to shake anybody's hand that I, or

give a pat on the back, let alone a hug.

330

And when running around with

all these wonderful people

331

who are involved in the U.

332

S.

333

ACE coalition, and getting a chance

to build just hallway conversations

334

and all the things that we've

been missing during this pandemic.

335

It just filled me up.

336

It filled me up in a way that I

was like, wow, I found my people.

337

These people, we're all

speaking the same language.

338

We're all here for the same reason.

339

And then we would add to this

American group, like these other

340

people from other countries that

are also doing the same good work in

341

unique ways for their communities.

342

And it was just, again, it was like,

it filled me up with this energy that,

343

wow, there's amazing people out there.

344

And I'm part of that, but, and

I'm doing amazing work where I am.

345

And, and that was, It's silly to think

you have to fly across the Atlantic

346

Ocean to meet your friends from

Minneapolis or from upstate New York,

347

but that's how it, that's what happened.

348

Or I finally made connections with a

colleague who's down in Tucson, Arizona.

349

Because we were all there and,

or, and that was just, it's what

350

happened and it was really good.

351

How is the rest of the world

dealing with climate change?

352

We have a very much a U.

353

S.

354

centric viewpoint and how is

the rest of the world doing?

355

What types of stories did you hear?

356

So COP26 kind of themes were,

there were many of them, a few of

357

them were things around finance

and mitigation and adaptation.

358

And there were others, but the, what's

interesting is that the global north

359

or first world countries that have the

least amount of people, but the most

360

carbon emissions are really interested

in, uh, mitigation and innovation and

361

inventing something else that's going

to somehow Natural solutions, um, things

362

that are, are kind of future focused,

whereas people from the global South,

363

typically the lower socioeconomic

countries with less infrastructure

364

and less money and who have the most

people and the least amount of emissions

365

and are dealing with unbelievable

impacts of climate change right now.

366

Whether it's their islands are eroding

away or they're such incredible drought

367

that they're famines and then there's

civil unrest as well as terrible things

368

happening to women and children and

the list goes on and these people are

369

telling the global north that We don't

have time for mitigation and innovation.

370

We have to deal with adaptation right now.

371

And we, because we don't have,

it's right now, we don't have time.

372

And the global South, what I

was hearing, um, over and over.

373

Is that until the people in the global

north, us in America and other very

374

rich countries, until we actually stop

consuming so much stuff, they don't

375

want to hear about our innovative ideas.

376

They want, if, until we actually reduce

the amount of fossil fuels that we are

377

burning each and every day, they're

not going to take us very seriously.

378

And they aren't.

379

Okay.

380

Okay.

381

And, and that was eye opening to me.

382

I, that's a conversation I had never

really heard because, I mean, I

383

read probably the same things that

the listeners to this podcast are

384

reading and, um, and I listen to

news and I pay attention to things

385

and I thought, I think I have a

pretty broad understanding of things.

386

Until I understood the Global South's

perspective of, of natural solutions.

387

And so natural solutions.

388

So if we're going to keep, we're going

to keep living the way we live, but

389

we're going to plant trees in South

America in some village and have

390

this carbon offset kind of thing.

391

Or we're going to keep developing and

bulldozing here, but then we're going to

392

do something really good in some country

in Africa, but we're not even going to

393

really ask the local people in Africa

what they need in the whatever country.

394

We're just going to do it because

we're, we know that we need to

395

come up with something to make us

feel better, but we're not going to

396

actually, uh, minimize our mis our

consumption here in our very comfortable

397

places that we get to be in America.

398

And so there were like, hashtag, like

in the, the marches and in the, even

399

in the blue zone, this whole false

solutions, like hashtag false solutions

400

and using words like carbon colonialism

were very common, and those are words

401

I had never, ever heard together.

402

And that's not the language that's

getting talked about in places like Aspen,

403

Colorado, where I, down the road from

Aspen, and other very affluent places.

404

So, How I, people are dealing with climate

change, I think, is so unique to the

405

place where they are and their worldview

and how comfortable they are or not.

406

And it's a very human problem.

407

It's a, it's a problem with

people and society more than

408

anything else at this point.

409

The earth is going to be okay.

410

I'm, it's the people that we have to

figure out how to take care of each other

411

a little bit better or a whole lot better.

412

And how might we do that?

413

How might we do that?

414

I think the first step in any of this

work is turning a bit inside towards

415

internally into our own hearts and minds

and really doing some soul searching and

416

some soul work to understand who we really

are individually so that we can then be

417

a little bit more empathetic and a little

more curious about people who are not like

418

me, people that are different than myself.

419

Yeah.

420

Thank you.

421

And, and then go out of my way

and be inconvenienced a little bit

422

to get to know people that aren't

like myself and do that work.

423

And that's, it's, our society is

not exactly encouraging a lot of

424

hetero, like we're very homogeneous.

425

We don't have a lot of heterogeneous

opportunity to like mix up and get to

426

know other people like we maybe used to 30

years ago when things were, there was more

427

civic clubs and things of that nature.

428

And so I think we have to now

we have to work harder to find

429

people that are not like us.

430

And I don't mean just people

of color versus white people.

431

I mean, like worldviews, different

socioeconomics, background

432

difference, immigrant stories that

are different, rural, urban, whatever,

433

all the mix of possibility of what

could make people's perspective

434

and culture different than mine.

435

And I think once we actually have

direct encounters with people that are

436

different than us, we It's really hard

to unsee that and unsee those stories,

437

and whether those people are from some

island in like the Maldives in the

438

Indian Ocean, or that person is my,

lives across town in my own community,

439

once I have an encounter with them and

actually have body language and smiles

440

and shake their hand and hear them and

hear their stories, That sticks with you.

441

You can't erase that from your experience.

442

And I think that's what the world

needs more of, because then you start

443

to be, because we're humans, and

humans are innately compassionate

444

and innately take care of each other.

445

I think that's just part of being human.

446

I think we will begin to take care

of more people in new ways if we have

447

more true encounters with people.

448

A lot of people have asked

me, Was COP successful?

449

Did they make decisions?

450

Did, are you satisfied with what happened?

451

And I think we might need

to reframe that question.

452

And that's the question that's

showing up, you know, that showed

453

up in the media left and right.

454

And it's, it's an

obvious kind of question.

455

I mean, it doesn't, it's

not a judgment on anybody.

456

reframe that question to

consider that how it all happens.

457

Is that there's this actual treaty body of

parties, government entities, government

458

leaders that are negotiating, and

they're actually negotiating and having

459

conversations for weeks and months before

they ever show up at the COP, and then

460

they continue to have more, and then they

hopefully get to some kind of agreement.

461

But it's the whole system is so

complicated and not just the content

462

of climate change and adaptation

and mitigation and finance and

463

all the possible solutions and

the science and the economics and

464

the never ending complexity there.

465

Then there's the complexity of just how

the United Nations operates and how,

466

how these different people actually

have different titles and different

467

roles and are at different tables

for different and different rooms for

468

all these different things and they,

and they, It's constantly moving and

469

somehow somebody's keeping track of all

that's happening all at the same time.

470

And then there's all of us out in

the outside who want answers of

471

what happened and was it successful?

472

And we don't remember that.

473

It takes time, maybe 24 hours, to actually

give these human beings, who are only

474

as human as you and I, time to digest

what just happened where they were, let

475

alone listen to whatever happened in the

room next door with their colleagues,

476

to then try to piece it together and

figure out how to make sense of it all.

477

And then you might actually be able

to follow it all just as easily

478

from a computer in Kansas as you

could have if you had been trying to

479

navigate the event center like I was.

480

Um, you probably had more success

following the actual negotiations from

481

a computer than being in the space.

482

And so I think we just have

to remember that all of this

483

process is super complicated.

484

And anybody who gives us very quick yes

or no, right, wrong kinds of answers, we

485

might want to ask some more questions and

say, actually, this might be more complex.

486

Let's dig in a little deeper because

there is no such thing as a simple

487

answer of was it successful or did

they accomplish what they tried to?

488

And so I just, I think that's a

really important thing to keep in mind

489

when thinking about these humongous.

490

United nation type gatherings of

negotiators and government leaders.

491

Oh, thank you for that.

492

Yeah.

493

Yeah.

494

It just looked like a really,

I mean, it's hard to organize

495

a classroom with 35 students.

496

I can't imagine what it's like and

all the different customs and cultures

497

and all those things you need to.

498

And I speak English and I

thought it was overwhelming.

499

Okay.

500

So in a review of the study that's

called Global Warming, Six Americas,

501

they, It is a review of the different,

different groups of people and their

502

different perspectives about the subject

of climate change, climate science.

503

And so the point that this study makes

is that there isn't just one America.

504

There are actually six Americas,

six within the country.

505

And that there are people who are in the

group, which they're calling alarmed.

506

There are people who are concerned.

507

Some cautious, some disengaged,

some doubtful, and some dismissive.

508

And I'll include a link in the

show notes for the online version

509

of, of this online summary.

510

But something that you just

said made me, uh, think of

511

this one point in this article.

512

In this article, they make a point

that Americans have values that they

513

have in common, but they haven't

yet connected it to climate change.

514

And that is part of the,

um, the disconnect between

515

the, the different groups.

516

There's a wonderful, uh, short little

video on the website that if you ask,

517

where they make the point where if you ask

different groups, different people, what

518

they think about clean energy and reducing

pollution and all these types of things,

519

they are, are in agreement of, with that.

520

But not everyone has, um, uh, Linked

it necessarily to this topic that

521

there is enough, uh, a difference

of opinion, that the communication

522

goes sideways at one point.

523

And so what did you observe

when you were in GLA Glasgow?

524

Did you have the opportunity to engage

with people who maybe had opposing

525

viewpoints to those who were at the event?

526

So.

527

No, people in glass, people who came

to the COP26 that I encountered were

528

there because they are, they did

everything they could to get to a

529

global event that's all about saving

the world around climate change.

530

And however, there was a huge

delegation of people from the oil

531

and gas industry at the COP26.

532

And that made national news as well.

533

And I think those folks might have

been in different meetings than I was.

534

Although I did not meet those people,

um, directly or I don't, I did

535

not know that they, who they were.

536

I think in the work that we are

doing here in the United States with

537

these leaders in climate education,

climate change education, who are.

538

Part of the environmental education

community, we, over and over, when

539

the conversation comes up about how

do you teach people that don't even

540

believe, it's like, we don't even,

we don't have that conversation.

541

Don't give that conversation much

play, because when we look at that Yale

542

study that you're referring to, the Six

Americas, If we add all five categories

543

together that are, all the five categories

that are concerned about climate change

544

at some level, the only, it's less than

10 percent of Americans who don't think

545

this is happening or don't want to believe

that it is, and yet they're the loudest.

546

And so there's a silent majority.

547

And I think as environmental educators,

we have to remember that and we have

548

to teach to the majority of people.

549

And the more we even create a space

for discussion that it is it or

550

isn't it happening, we're just.

551

Back, we're backpedaling and we're

spinning our wheels and we're not

552

allowing the whole thing to move forward.

553

And so we as environmental educators,

I think need to be spending our time

554

making those connections so that

people understand that public health

555

and the incredible numbers of people

that are dealing with asthma or not

556

having access to clean drinking water.

557

Because of all the reasons, and in these

big cities in America, or even rural

558

communities, it's everywhere, that there's

relationships between these very real,

559

in your face circumstances in your home,

that are connected, they're caused by

560

the collective impacts of climate change.

561

And so I think that's where

we have a huge opportunity and

562

responsibility as educators.

563

Is to edge to draw those connections

because like you said, that's where

564

there's the, there's this major

disconnect and, and a lot of that is

565

fear based people don't want to believe.

566

In something that is really scary,

because it is, and it is scary, but I

567

don't, or they don't want to accept it.

568

I don't think we can actually talk

about this issue as believing or not.

569

I think that's, that's like

believing in gravity or something.

570

Um, it's accepting that it's

happening and naming it.

571

And, um, and I think that's, that's

where we have to move forward

572

together as educators, as trainers,

as climate empowerment professionals.

573

So climate education is more than

data and economics, it's conversation

574

with your neighbors, right, and with

others and others in your community.

575

How about, it's also a

science communication issue.

576

Did you happen to.

577

pick up on how people from all

different countries do science

578

communication in their communities?

579

I didn't actually see much

of that side of things.

580

I think the, probably if it had been

10 years ago, or even five years ago,

581

that probably would have been the

central message was because of the

582

data, climate change is happening.

583

And I think at this point,

because the elevated urgency

584

and emergency of climate change.

585

I get a sense that the focus is

on climate justice and that, and

586

that includes everything from

storytelling, like, I mean, how do

587

we, how do we teach climate justice?

588

We teach it through things like

storytelling, and we teach it through

589

case studies, and we teach it through

using things like deliberative

590

conversations, and looking at things

from multi stakeholder perspectives,

591

and we make sure that we're presenting

the issue of climate change as a

592

complex, nuanced, complicated thing.

593

And it's not a one side of

the table versus another.

594

I don't think debate is a very good tool

for teaching because it encourages that

595

somebody's right and somebody's wrong.

596

Whereas I don't think in this

work of climate change solutions.

597

There necessarily are always going to

be rights and wrongs if there's a whole

598

lot of it depends and it's nuanced

and it's unique to the place where

599

it is, and it is place based, right?

600

And so what I'm dealing with right

here in my community in the mountains

601

of Colorado is very different than

what people are experiencing and

602

dealing with in inner city Los Angeles.

603

And so I think.

604

Yes, we, the science, the process of

science is what I think is most important

605

that we as environmental educators are

teaching so that we're teaching the

606

skills of a scientist or teaching the

skills of how to investigate an issue,

607

both from a stakeholder perspective

as well as from a empirical data

608

perspective, and then combining that.

609

But that process of science, that

process of asking questions and

610

figuring out what people have done

before, and what do we know from

611

their research and their experience?

612

And then how do we

formulate new questions?

613

And then how do we test those questions?

614

And then how do we ask for more input?

615

And, and I think, and then how do

we actually read data and have data

616

literacy and teaching people data

literacy and how to read data in a

617

way that is a, um, critical thinker.

618

and knowing how to ask

better questions around data.

619

I think that's the part of science that's

really important around when we are

620

teaching about climate change because

then we can apply that to wherever we

621

happen to be or at different scales.

622

The scale of my neighborhood versus

the The entire metropolitan area of

623

Seattle, I mean, that's let alone,

you know, the entire bio region of the

624

Rocky Mountains or whatever it may be.

625

And so being able to have these convert,

these skills to be able to understand

626

things at different scales is a huge

skill that we can be teaching people.

627

And I don't, and I say people,

because this is not just about kids.

628

This is about all of us.

629

We all need to be taught.

630

and encouraged to improve in the

skills of scientific thinking.

631

So I didn't see a whole lot of data.

632

I didn't see a whole lot of graphs.

633

I didn't see a whole lot of

typical, the typical climate change

634

graph while I was in Glasgow.

635

I saw artwork.

636

I saw poets.

637

I saw people telling stories through

megaphones, people telling stories

638

through Sitting together and having

conversations, I saw some theater,

639

like stand up comedy performances.

640

I saw a hundred, over a hundred

thousand people walking down the

641

streets of Glasgow in the pouring

rain, and I was part of that.

642

And that was, that's what I saw.

643

Sounds like a rich experience.

644

Absolutely.

645

In all levels.

646

Yeah.

647

Yeah.

648

Wonderful.

649

Wonderful.

650

What's next for you in terms

of wild rose education and your

651

climate work and your water work?

652

What's next?

653

Well, I have been telling the world

that I'm more of a climate educator.

654

That's more of the.

655

How I describe myself, because

that means everything, because

656

everything is a climate issue.

657

Um, I don't know if everybody interprets

it that way, but, you know, I, I plan to

658

continue to be an advocate for climate

change education and training and climate

659

empowerment at a community level with

this work with the USACE coalition.

660

As well as anything and everything

that comes with that, but

661

really being an advocate for the

opportunity for climate empowerment.

662

So that's one big bucket of

things that I'm working on.

663

I'm also, um, committed to

continuing to do, to provide and

664

design and facilitate professional

development workshops for educators.

665

both formal and non formal educators

in so many different capacities through

666

partnering with universities and

partnering with the Colorado Alliance

667

for Environmental Education and, and

really helping to design those programs

668

as well as facilitate them really well.

669

And then I'm also, my third bucket

of what it means to be a climate

670

educator or is that I'm still

very involved with and continue.

671

to be very excited about my

climate science work that I

672

get to do at the Arctic Ocean.

673

Just this week, I found out that the

National Science Foundation has lifted

674

the quarantine rules for Northern Alaska.

675

And so I will be traveling with the

International Arctic Buoy Program

676

scientists team in late March.

677

Up to Utiagvik, Alaska, which is

the northernmost point of the United

678

States, almost the northernmost

point of North America, but we'll

679

be spending our time working on

environmental sensors on the ocean.

680

On the ice that measure weather and

climate data and that trajectory

681

that will continue as long as I

want to be involved, it sounds like.

682

So those 3 big things, climate science,

climate education through teacher

683

professional, you know, educator,

professional development, and then just

684

continuing to be part of the advocacy of.

685

around making sure that climate

education is even a possibility

686

for people and having access.

687

And so those are my three

big buckets in for right now.

688

It's pretty exciting work.

689

It is exciting and I'm so excited

to hear that your trip to Alaska,

690

you get to, it's still a go because

it was so abruptly disrupted.

691

I've been anticipating it for two

years and I'm a little hesitant to

692

believe it's really going to happen,

but I think it might actually happen.

693

And so, travel to Utiagvik,

Alaska in late March.

694

And this is all with Polar Trek,

which is a program that the National

695

Science Foundation funds to pair

educators with science teams.

696

And so two years ago, I got selected

for that, for the Polar Trek program.

697

And then of course we've been.

698

Laying low with COVID, and now we get to

go, and then my science team will also

699

go back to the Arctic Ocean in late June,

but from the Canadian side of things.

700

And so, everybody's welcome and encouraged

to follow along this expedition, and

701

you can find the information on my

website, but I will also make sure

702

those end up in the show notes as well.

703

Yes, absolutely.

704

So, where can people find you online?

705

So, Wildrose Education is

the name of my business.

706

So, wildroseeducation.

707

com is easy to find.

708

And I just recently have updated

the website with an Arctic section

709

and a climate change section.

710

So, you can see a few things there

and maybe be inspired as fellow

711

Environmental educators who are listening.

712

I know you are.

713

I know you are environmental

educators and reach out to me

714

like phone calls are priceless.

715

And maybe we can collaborate on something.

716

And I've been known to have phone

calls with people or zoom calls, just

717

because we're not having those coffee

meetings at conferences where we just

718

bump into each other in the hallway.

719

And so we have to really intentionally.

720

Make those opportunities happen and I'm

committed to that and it takes time,

721

but it's worth it because relationships

are what make everything work

722

To learn more about Sarah and to

explore COP 26 Wildrose education and

723

the Polar Trek program more thoroughly

visit the show notes at talaterra.

724

com Thank you for joining

us today See you next time.

725

Talaterra is a podcast for and

about independent educators

726

working in natural resource fields

and environmental education.

727

If you enjoyed this episode, please

share it with friends and colleagues.

728

Thank you so much for joining us today.

729

This is Tonya Marion.

730

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Sessions, a podcast with carbon

731

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732

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734

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735

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736

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740

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