Master The Art of Inspiring Presentations w/ Cathey Armillas -04

Episode 4 • 22nd November 2023 • Marli Williams • Marli Williams, M.Ed.

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Hey, everybody. What is happening? I would love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams Podcast where today I am going to be interviewing the incredible, the amazing, the talented, Cathey Armillas. Cathey is a marketing strategist, international speaker, presentation coach, creator of the how to rock a TED talk program and the author of the Unbreakable Rules of Marketing. She's a TEDx speaker coach, and most importantly, she's a pickle baller just like me. And today we are going to dive deep into how to powerfully present your ideas and how to leave your audience moved and inspired to take action and service that idea and to share with confidence. We talk about how to prepare as a speaker and how to overcome fears, how to overcome doubts and really hone in on what your idea worth spreading is. Welcome to the show. Can't wait to dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:02

Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's Lead Together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:44

Alright, everybody. I'd love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast. And I am super stoked because I get to interview and hang out with my good friend, Cathey Armillas. Welcome to the show.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:01:57

Thank you very much.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:59

I'm super stoked to have Cathey on here today. The first time we met in real life, we kicked it off. We had a blast, and we talked about amazing things related to leadership and speaking and coaching. And this podcast is really about helping people be better leaders. And bringing Cathey onto the show today, I'd love for you to just kick us off with your story. What brings you to the work that you do today?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:02:31

Yes. But first, I really want to say, Marli, thank you for having me on. As your first guest, I feel so honored. From the moment I met you, I was like, this chick is a leader. Like, really, I saw that because you put yourself out there. So, I just want to say that to everybody that's listening to you because you have a great following. You are such a great authentic leader. You put yourself out there. You're very vulnerable. You're very willing to share, exactly how you're feeling, and you're so willing to help people. So, I love that. So, thank you. Really from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me as your first guest.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:06

Yeah. Yeah. I'm super stoked to have you on and I just, I love the work that you do in the world. I love what you stand for. And I also love that you play pickleball.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:03:14

Right. I love that too.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:16

We got pickle ballers in the house. So good. Thanks for sharing that.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:03:20

Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for having me here. So, my story, I was a director of marketing at an industrial shredder manufacturer. And if you think what I thought, I thought big paper shredder. Nope, shredders that shred cars, torpedoes, computers, big tires, and I'm talking big tires like a 13 foot in diameter tire, like big tractor tires, like all kinds of really big stuff, and we made it really, really small. And it was for the recycling industry, and so our clients were buying these shredders. And I had this crazy idea. Like, why don't we put it on the internet? And the CEO was like, I mean, how many people can buy half a million-dollar shredder? And I'm like, that's not exactly how the Internet works. So, let's put it out there, and it went very viral, Marli. It was, it was insane. I mean, when I get a call from the David Letterman show, which is not around anymore, but, you know, guy calls me and says, hi. It's Mike from the David Letterman show. And I hang up on him because I think it's my sister trying to punk me. And then he emails me and I'm like, oh, oh, he really is Mike from the David Letterman show. It was just a wild ride, but where it ultimately got me was, I left and I started my own business.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:04:26

And I thought, I thought don't ever think you're going to do something because life will throw a weird curveball. I thought I was going to do marketing. I wrote a marketing book. It won awards. I was speaking on marketing, and one of my clients got us to give a TED talk. Boom. My whole world changed. I was like, alright. Yeah. I guess I can coach you. And I coached him through this talk and, the executive producer at TEDx Portland said, hey. We don't really have any speaker coaches. You want a speaker coach? Yes. I like this, and this became my business. And so, and now what used to be my marketing kind of blended in this weird space of I always say all a TED Talk is a mini marketing campaign for an idea. That's kind of the short version of how I ended up here. Did I ever know, Marli, like, if you asked me long time ago, like, would you speaker coach, what do you think? I'm like, what? What is that? That's a thing? People coach people to speak. Don't people know how to speak already?

Marli Williams [: 00:05:25

Right?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:05:26

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:26

Yeah. And it's like, I love that Steve Jobs quote that says, we can't connect the dots looking forward. We can only connect the dots looking backwards. So, somehow, we have to trust that the dots will connect. And that all of your experience from marketing and how that's informed you as a storyteller and as a speaker coach. And I love this idea of what a TED talk is. It's a mini marketing campaign for your idea.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:51

It's like, how do I clearly convey this idea to the world so that people understand it, they get it, people resonate with it. And, you know, I think a lot of the people in my audience and a lot of people listening to this podcast, maybe they do have an idea of what they want to share. And what have you seen in the speakers that you've coached? And I know you've worked with high level CEOs. You work with, you know, people at the top of the top. What would you say is some of people's biggest fears when it comes to getting on stage and sharing their idea?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:06:29

That's such a great question. You know, I think everybody, especially when it comes to speaking, has a really weird little voice inside them that says, you can't do this. I swear no matter at what level, I can tell you the people have this weird voice that says people won't listen to you. This won't resonate. You're not going to sway anybody. You're not going to motivate or inspire anybody. And it's just not true. But like anything, it's something that you have to learn how to do well. And if you hear somebody speaking and you're like, oh, they're a great speaker, you should know that they've put a lot of work into that.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:10

Yeah. I just want to emphasize, like, for any of you out there who have a message, you have an idea that, like, the fears and the doubts are across the board. Like, we all have it. So, even the people that you see giving, like, their best TED Talk or getting on stage and sharing their message knowing they've had to move through the fear and the doubt. And also, oftentimes, they have coaching, mentorship, support, practice, and they've put in the time to hone their craft. And I really see speaking as a skill set that people can learn, not something that you're either good at or you're not good at.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:07:51

Yes. So glad you said that. Yes. Look at comedians. Comedians start off and they have to, like, a really long journey. Even if people say, oh, you're a funny person. That does not translate to great comedian.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:06

Right. It's such an art. You know, it's an art. It's a science. It's a skill set. It's something that people have to learn and I'd be curious. Yeah. When you think about working with the speakers that you work with, what are the skills of speaking? What are the skills that you feel like people have to cultivate in themselves in order to convey their message with clarity, with confidence. You see, maybe a speaker going from like they've never given a talk before, they've never been on stage before. I know that you work with them and their messaging. But, yeah, what do you think are some of the essential skills of being an exceptional speaker? Not just like an okay one, but like someone who gets on stage and blows people away.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:08:55

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that you're making sure you're qualifying. Cathey, I'm not looking for an okay. I'm looking for great.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:03

Yes. I'm here for great.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:09:05

My opinion, the way that I work, I believe that and I always say this. This is one of, kind of the lessons I teach when I teach storytelling is, like, stories are from you, but they're for them. We can also translate that to ideas are from you, but they're for them. Some people will get in this weird space where they're like, oh, I'm really good at entertaining. But it's the people that take it even further and go, okay. I might be really good at delivering, but when I can really get into somebody's head, think of a good movie. Think of an okay movie. Go on the plot. Nah, it was okay. I kind of knew where it was going. But then think of a movie where you're like, wow. I did not know that was coming. I didn't expect it. That was phenomenal. All the pieces came together. To me, that's an exceptional speaker, and it really starts with having a good idea.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:09:57

And I always kind of say, especially in TED Talks if you think about it, because it's usually one honed idea. Well, there is. There's a topic, then there's usually kind of an idea that's generally accepted. Like, let's take bullying because I coached somebody one time on workplace bullying. There's the topic workplace bullying or adult bullying or, you know, and then the general idea is bullying is bad. And then there was her specific idea. And so, in order to get to be an exceptional speaker, you have to have that idea, but it has to kind of be for the audience, for the people. What can they do with it, what will actually challenge their thinking, what will make them think, act, feel differently. That's when you're an exceptional speaker. You can do that. When it becomes more about them than you.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:43

Yeah. I love that. And to me, that's the difference between what I think about of being a giving a transactional presentation and creating a transformational experience, which is something that I talk a lot about of how do you challenge someone's thinking with an idea. And to me, you know, I love TED Talks and I watch them all the time and their tagline is ideas worth spreading. And my big thing is like action worth taking. What action do you want them to do as a result of this? Because we can hear an idea. We can have an idea. But what will people do differently as a result of hearing it? What will shift? How will their behavior you know, again, what do you want them to feel, think, or do differently when they walk away? And to me, that is like, oh, that's the sweet spot.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:11:39

Oh, I'm dying right now, Marli. Actions worth taking. Wow. That was like a boom mic drop. You leveled up. I love that. And so, imagine if you're a speaker, you are a speaker. You're a phenomenal speaker. But imagine if somebody in your audience, you're like, oh, I'm a speaker or I want to be a speaker or I want to talk about something. What if in the back of my brain, I'm like, what my job is here is to get on a stage, whatever my stage is, and have people take an action. Actions worth spreading. I'm going to put it together in a totally different way than me just going, oh, I just want to go out there and sound great. It's a totally different mindset.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:16

Yeah. And that idea and I think a lot of that fear and that insecurity and that self-doubt comes from the ego of like, I want to look good and get it right. And it's very much like self-focused versus service focused. Right, like, I'm here to serve. And I love that idea of like ideas are from you, but they're for them of like what is in it for them. And when we shift that focus, it actually for me as a speaker, it changes my fear. And one of my mantras is like my desire to be of service is greater than my fear. And am I willing to be bold enough, brave enough to share an idea that actually inspires someone to do something different in their life, which means, like, sometimes we have to, like, rattle the cage, challenge our status quo, challenge the way that people see the world, and give them kind of like a new reality, a new way of

Cathey Armillas [: 00:13:15

perspective. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:17

Yeah. Perspective.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:13:18

Yeah. And I think that I love that because, you know, if somebody's taken the time and they've prepared something. Anytime you hear somebody and you know that they put a lot of thought into it, but they have a different perspective than you, it's really easy to listen to. Right? It's very easy to go. Oh, I want to hear more of that.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:13:38

Yeah, Marli. You're right. I never, I haven't put that much thought on your perspective, and I'm really enjoying hearing it. That's why when somebody takes the time to prepare it well and they really think about, because for me, there's like the idea. But the thing that you will see a lot in TED talks, especially great ones, is that there will be a lot of supporting evidence for that idea. There won't just be like, hey. There's this awesome idea, and it's awesome because Cathey or Mia said it was awesome or whoever's speaking. It's more like, no. Here's this idea. I'm going to show you social proof. I'm going to show you this. I'm going to show you the psychology behind it. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to support it with a lot of things so that I can give you a, maybe a different perspective, something you've never heard before.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:22

That's a good point. And I think that that's probably one of my big opportunities for growth if I could put that out there is, like, I have a lot of ideas, like, the power of connecting with people, right, or building community. Like, that could be an idea, but it's like, well, why does it matter? And people in order for your idea to land for them, they need different elements. They need the story element or the statistics or the data or the research or all of these things. So, you're kind of like meeting different people in the audience and helping them, like, come along the journey with you.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:14:59

Oh my gosh. Yes. So, I always like to say this. I say your idea is great if it can go both wide and deep. By wide, it's like how many people can I get behind this idea? If your idea is super narrow, then it's only meant for a small segment of people. So, you got to go wide and then you got to go deep. So, yeah, on the surface, you could say bullying is bad. Awesome. That's level 1. What's level 2 look like? What's level 3 look like? What does level 4 look like? And some of them might be different elements like you said. One might be a story element. One might be a shocking, you know, statistic that some interesting information. One might be a, you know, an anecdote. You know, one might be social proof in some way. So, there's all these layers and you have to, you can't be very shallow in your idea. You can't say, hey. Great idea. Because sometimes people come to me and say and this happens a lot, of course, being a TED coach. Somebody will reach out to me and say, oh, my friend should give a TED talk or people have been telling me I should give a TED talk. And I go, okay. What's your idea? And then I hear it and I go, what else? Okay. Like, awesome. Sounds good. Tell me more. I want to hear more. Like, I and I'm always searching for that, you know, supporting evidence. I'm going, okay. On the surface, it sounds good. Bullying is bad. Great. How would you back that up? So, it is really, really important.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:14

Yeah. And what makes your idea unique, I feel like. Right? Like, so bullying is bad, but you said that that's, like, level 1. And everyone could probably get behind that. Like, I agree that bullying's bad too, but like what's your unique take on it?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:16:29

That's exactly that thing that I have to move people through. There's, like, topic, the kind of generally accepted idea or the world's idea, and then there's, like, your unique special spin that only you can talk about. So, I have 3 questions if I can tell you them.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:44

I love it.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:16:45

So, if somebody's out there and they're thinking people told me that I should give a TED talk, try to answer these questions. If you can, you're on the right road. Okay. The first question is, why is this idea extraordinary? And you have to ask, why is this idea extraordinary? What have you made, if it's an ordinary idea, how has it become extraordinary? The second question, why are you the best person to talk about this idea? And boom, a lot of people stop right there. Tell me that piece of it. Tell me why you're qualified to talk about this and how have you positioned. And then the third one, most important, this is how we started your show off today with, how will this idea change the lives of other people. And if you cannot answer that, you're like, oh, I just have an idea. That's a level one idea then. Then it's a level one idea. It's like, okay. Bullying is bad. Awesome. Why should you talk about it and how will it change the lives of other people? That will not change anybody's life by saying bullying is bad. That won't do anything. That is not an action worth taking.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:42

Right. Just so we can have an example, what was the, like, extraordinary unique idea that she landed on?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:17:50

Yeah. So, this is really cool, and this is where concepts come into play. And I teach this a lot, like, you teach a concept. So, we were having a conversation, and I said, so what do you do in your work? Because she's running DEI company. In this company, they're dealing a lot with workplace bullying. And she goes many times, it doesn't look like childhood bullying where somebody's like, I'm going to beat you up and take your lunch money or whatever. It looks more like exclusion. And sometimes people don't know that they're doing it, and so she said that it was the bullying loop.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:18:20

And until you knew you were on it; you couldn't fix it. So, that was kind of one of the key concepts that we talked about because she teaches this in her company. She said, hey. And then she named certain things and talked about how they just keep going in a circle. It looks like this. It looks like this. It looks like this, and it goes in a circle and it goes in a circle. And until you realize you're on a loop, you will not be able to get off of that loop or change it.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:18:42

And so, that was her specific idea from the work that she had done. I mean, she had a lot of social proof and evidence based on this, and she talked to some very specific stories. Can you even think about that? You’re like, if I was doing something and I didn't recognize it, I'm going to stay on this loop until I get off of it.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:58

Right. And it's not always a framework or a formula, but it's a way in which people can see an idea in a new way. Like, oh, I thought that bullying was, like, from me to this one person or it was something outside of me. And it's like, oh, it's a new way of looking at something that we've all heard about.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:19:18

Right. In her model, you can participate in it whether you were doing it or not.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:23

Right. Were you a bystander? Did you see it happen and you didn't do anything about it? Right, like, all these different roles that people play. And they're like, oh, okay. I see. But even though I wasn't the bully-er, I also didn't, like, stand up for the person either, you know, or speak up.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:41

And so, these 3 questions are freaking gold, people. Right? So, yeah, it's one thing to have an idea. What makes this idea extraordinary? What makes it unique? What makes it different? Why am I the person to talk about it? What's my maybe my skill set, my background, my experience, whether education or practical. And then the 3rd piece is how will this change the lives of the people in the audience. If they got this thing, what would be different for them in their life. Right? Like, if everyone got this, like, bullying idea, then people would have better work experiences. There'd be better engagement. There'd be more employee retention. All of the things.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:20:31

Right. And sometimes it's a tiny thing. Right? I coach a psychologist from San Francisco that gave a TED talk, and she ended up in her career. It was really interesting. When she first started her career, she shared an office with a pastor, and he specialized in teenage boys that were, sex offenders. And she was like, oh god. It was the last thing I ever wanted to do, but I was just starting, and so I took some of his overflow. That ended up being her career, and she learned a lot about it along the way that the boys did not want to be doing this and many times, you know? Like, this is not what they wanted to be doing, and so she kind of was able to get to the heart of why some of this was happening.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:21:10

And if one of the big problems that she realizes that we put so much pressure on boys to be men, and then she turned it into a book after she gave the talk, but let boys be kids first was her idea. And it was her specific idea from her specific work. You know, she had so many great stories, and the idea was simple to the boys in your life. Support them as a child. If they want to do something, don't start putting weird norms on them. Oh, you want to do dance class like your sister? No. That's you should go play football. No. Don't do that. Don't tell them that they shouldn't cry because they're, you know, these are easy examples. She had made some really cool examples. But it's an easy thing that you once you've heard that idea and you've heard her perspective and you've heard her talk about it, you're never going to forget it. And then the line is good. That boys be kids first.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:58

Right. What's the, I call it like, what's the enduring understanding? Like, the thing if you don't get anything else, what's the thing that you actually want people to get to walk away with, to remember what makes it sticky. And I just got back from leading the retreat called, The Retreat Retreat to help retreat leaders plan and design and lead their own retreats. One of the big things was less is more. And I think a lot of people try to jam so much content or like lots of ideas versus having like one clear, compelling message and idea that's then reinforced or backed up. But it's like, that would be another question to ask. Like, what's the thing that you want them to get when they walk away, that when someone says, how was that talk or what did you learn that they actually are able to answer that question versus like, I don't know. It was cool. Like,

Cathey Armillas [: 00:22:56

and I, right? And I think you can find that in question number 3 because you're not going to change somebody's life if it's not specific, if it's not pointed, if it's not clear, if it's not. So, I think you will find that. That's why if you can, when I talk to people, they can answer all 3 questions and they and it sounds very compelling to me. I'm like, okay. You're on the right track.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:14

Yeah. One of the experiential learning models, the simplest one is kind of what. So what? Now, what? Right? What's the idea? Why does it matter? And now what are people going to do about it? Right? And I think that that's really, really powerful. And, again, when people look at really amazing speakers, it looks so effortless. It looks like they have not a care in the world. Like, they're just up there winging it. The name of this podcasts is, Let's Lead Together. And one thing that I know to be true is anyone that you see on a stage has not gotten there alone. Right? And this idea of, like, leadership and this, like, fierce, almost like independence or like I don't need anyone or if I can't do it alone then maybe I'm just not cut out for it.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:08

And for you, again, working with these really high-level speakers and CEOs, people that are giving TEDx talks and things like that. I think it's just giving people permission, like, to have the support that you need in order to be exceptional at your craft.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:24:26

Yeah. You know, you brought up pickleball, so I'm going to come back with it. Okay?

Marli Williams [: 00:24:29

Come back to the pickleball.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:24:31

Well, first of all, it's silly name. Right? So, they're like, it can't be a real sport. Can't be real serious. And I think, you know, one of the reasons why it's taken off in its United States' fastest growing sport right now is because it's super accessible. Right? Anybody can get on the court within, you know, 1 hour. You can be pretty decent.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:24:49

But one of the things that you and I both know about pickleball is when you start to get up to that advanced level, when you start heading towards a higher 4.0 level, you have to be really good. You have to be strategic. You have to work on it. And you don't do that by playing the game. You only do it when you're practicing. That's the only time in a practice session I can work with my coach. He's going to hit a hundred drives at me in, you know, 20 minutes. How many will I get in a game? Maybe 5. And I'm not trying at that moment, I'm not being strategic. I'm not thinking about how I'm going to return it. It's the same for any kind of leadership. It's the same for any kind of speaking. You know, you have to have the coaches. Tell me one really successful Olympic level athlete or professional athlete that doesn't have a coach. Tell me that.

Marli Williams [: 00:25:39

Right. Exactly. And they don't just have one coach. They have like 5 to 10 coaches. Right?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:25:43

I have a friend that coaches in the NBA, and he's a performance coach. That's just one of the many coaches that NBA players have. You know? So, I think you're on the right track. I think leaders not only do they have coaches or they don't do it alone, but I think they really crave that. And I think that would be a difference. I think the humblest people that come to me and go, hey, I run a multimillion, sometimes multibillion dollar company or I'm, you know, I'm part of this, you know, huge company. I do very well in my space. I'm getting ready to speak. I'm lying to you if I'm going to tell you that I just know how to do this. And, you know, this is my job. This is what I do. I work with people. Of course, they should come to somebody that's an expert. Of course, they shouldn't just rely on their own charisma. I think you're on the right track and really good leaders know that.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:29

Yeah. And I love that you said that really good leaders know where they're exceptional at. And there's ways to use those skills and use the natural charisma and really good leaders know when to ask for help, get support, get mentoring, get coaching. And, yeah, I think, like, one of the questions is, like, do I want to be, like, an okay speaker? Do I want to just get by or do I want to be exceptional? And, you know, when you review, when you look at the TED Talks that you like or look at the speakers that you think are phenomenal. Like, I really ask people, what do you love about that? You know, I'll give a talk and people be like, I want to be able to do what you do. You're so confident and it doesn't seem like you're nervous. I think there's this illusion that if you're, like, confident on a stage, it doesn't mean that you weren't scared, that you don't have doubt, that you don't have fear, that you like not a care in the world. And I'm nervous every single time.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:30

And part of it is like how do we funnel and harness that? It's because, it's just energy and we can use it and we can use it as fuel. Because one of my things is I'm nervous because I care. Because if I wasn't nervous, I'd be like, oh, no big deal. But it's like I care about making a difference so, like, it's activating. So, for people, you know, I think that this is such a great question. How do you help support people in the build up to something like a big TEDx talk or they're about to get on stage. And what advice do you give speakers around navigating the nervousness or the doubt or the fear of public speaking because it is people's number one biggest fear is public speaking. And even the people that are scared, they're like, I still want to do it. So, how do we help those people understand that It's normal. And what are, what coaching and support and advice would you give to people out there?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:28:31

Well, first of all, I don't have a one size fits all because here's why. Even though a lot of people are nervous, some people are really competitive, for instance, and they're like, oh, I'm just like that nervous energy. You already talked about it. You already brought that up, which is like, some people are like, I'm nervous, but I'm going to go. I'm just, I'm going to go. That becomes my challenge. And so, some people depend who it is. I'm going to tell you a quick story about somebody that I just coached for TEDx Portland during this year.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:28:54

's the executive director for: 1000

Cathey Armillas [: 00:29:44

And then he shared this beautiful lesson from his mom that was, like, was a great opener. And then, you know, he kind of wrapped the opening up with this line that really connected the audience, which was everybody has a place that they call home, and everybody's home is important to them. And so, he had this way that he was connecting with the audience. By the time he got on the stage, he's still a little nervous. Like, he still had, like, the butterflies and stuff, but he didn't feel as nervous because he felt really confident in what he was going to say to the audience. He had practiced it. He had prepared it. He knew it was a really good idea, and it was a really good message, and that kind of helped get the nerves away.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:30:25

So, sometimes when people tell you interesting things like, oh, you know, go listen to your favorite song. Yeah. I think you have to first know where your own personal nerves are coming from. Is it nerves because you don't feel confident in the idea? Well, then no amount of listening to pump up music is going to fix that. Do you feel super confident in your material, but it's just that little like, oh, there's 3,000 people out there. My stomach is a nuts kind of thing. And so, depending on where the nervousness is coming from, when it is coming from the nerve of lots of people, I always want people to have a good 30 seconds. I want them to feel so good about those 30 seconds because what happens in those 30 seconds will dictate the rest of their talk.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:09

Like, the first 30 seconds just to nail it.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:31:12

To nail it. So, I want them like, I'll work on those first 30 seconds over and over and over and over. So, no matter how nervous they are backstage, once they get those 30 seconds out, they're like, woo. Because once you get going, as, you know, as a speaker, performer or, you know, trainer, once you get going, it's almost like a rut in the road. And you just hope that you're on the right side of that road, not the wrong side. And so, the first 30 seconds, minute is going to dictate how the rest of it goes. If you get off on the wrong foot and you feel like you did something wrong, you'll spend the rest of the talk trying to catch up, trying to fix, trying to repair, and then that will make you seem unconfident. It will make you seem nervous. So, for me, it's more about nailing that at the beginning and being very confident in what you're saying.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:59

Yeah. I think that that's brilliant advice. Right? And I think it's a great question to ask. Why am I nervous? And is it because I maybe don't trust myself? I am worried about, like, messing up, looking good, getting it right or am I not confident in my idea and I need to, like, dial that in? Do I not feel prepared? Do I need to practice more? This is like coaching for me. We're having a mini coaching session here.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:32:25

We're just going to do it live right now. Let's go.

Marli Williams [: 00:32:27

So, honestly, my biggest challenge as a speaker is that I know I don't like to practice. It's like my, the blessing and the curse is that I'm really good at just winging it. And yet, I know that if I practice, it would help me go from, like, pretty good to, like, freaking amazing. And so, how would you coach someone like me who's like, I'm just going to wing it. And I don't like to practice. I don't want to, here's the hard part for me is I get so much energy from the audience in that moment that, like, just standing in front of a mirror or, like, practicing in my office, like, it just doesn't do anything for me. And then I even though intellectually I know that I should and I'm supposed to, I still don't do it. What do I do, Cathey? What do I do?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:33:23

Oh, I can help you. Here's another thing where it's not a one size fits all. Right? Because if, for instance, there are some people, and these are usually your introverted people. They're very analytical. They think a lot. They need to be a lot more, like, actually more specifically prepared. But there's another way that you can prepare that doesn't require you sitting in front of your mirror going, okay. There's no, there's no energy for me here, and this is terrible.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:33:54

And, you know, I created a tool called the idea map because I think that I am very anti script. I don't know if you know that from me. There's a lot of people that'd be like, write things. I'm like, no. Because I have a lot of improvs in my background. Think about improvers. This is what you need to think about, Marli. This is very specific for what you're saying.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:34:11

Think about improvers. They practice a lot of things to do what? To get on a stage and improv. They're practicing. So, they're preparing in a way and so the way you could prepare, for instance, is not sitting there practicing your word for word. My practice for you would be I would be more like, okay. Marli, I want you to really tell me what your idea, how your idea is going to come across. Okay, what kind of exercises could you have the audience do? What kind of visuals are you going to do? What stories are you going to, that's going to be way more preparation than any practice you'll do. And so, if you have that nailed, I trust that Marli Williams will get out there and crush it.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:34:53

But if Marli is just like, oh, I'm going to talk about leadership. Yep. Not going to do anything, and I'm going to go out there. I don't trust that. Girl, come back. Come back. Your practice is in the foundation. I trust that you're a great builder, but I need you to have a blueprint first. You can't just go out there and start not knowing.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:12

I appreciate that and this idea of, just enough structure without too much. Right? That it's like I know where I'm starting. I know where I'm going and I know how I'm going to get there and what that journey is that I'm going to take people on. And I appreciate what you said of and that to me is honestly, yeah, the power of coaching and having someone ask you those questions because sometimes we can't always see the forest through the trees. We can't always see our own medicine, our own magic, our own stories. We're like, oh, this is isn't that big of a deal or like we can't always see it until someone kind of like pulls it out of us and helps us connect those dots or see where that story could fit in or where that activity makes sense or things like that. And for me being like an external processor, like, I really need that.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:36:06

The thing I hate, anybody who's ever been coached by me knows this because I'm usually pretty threatening about it. I'll choke you out if you do this. And the thing is I don't like it when people say thank you at the end of a talk. And it's not because I don't like people to be polite. It's because I feel like it's the lazy way to say, hey. My talk is over. I had no other way to tell you other than to say thank you.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:36:25

If you prepared ahead of time, you would have been like, oh, my closing line is going to be a power line and it's going to crush. Like, so that's the thing I hate. Now you want to hear the thing I love?

Marli Williams [: 00:36:37

Hell, yeah.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:36:38

years. I have about: 1800

Cathey Armillas [: 00:36:57

So, anytime something comes up or a good line comes up, I'll put it in my story file. Put it as one little notation. I do it on the free version of Evernote. I have one little, you know, page, I guess, in my notebook, if you will, and it has categories. That's the important part too, by the way. When I'm going to go do a talk, I go, oh, I have a category for humor. I have a category for quotes. I have a category for quotes from Cathey. I have a category for concepts, exercises, family, loss, sad. Like, I have wisdom, wise, you know, wise words. When I want to do something, I just grab my phone and I go to my story file. So, that's the thing I love. So, Marli, if you had a story file, what I would do is go, okay, you’re going to go on and you're going to talk about leadership. Pull up your story file. Tell me what exercises you have in there. Now what stories did you put in there? Maybe do a funny story. Maybe do a hard story. Like, then you'll have something you'll have to sit there and go, see, I don't know what I'm going to do. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:37:52

Right. So, you you're collecting those stories before you need them. Yeah. And I think what you said was gold about how we open and how we close makes such a difference for the level of confidence I think you feel as a speaker and the level of impact you can have as a speaker. And I think what I'm hearing overall is to be intentional with the craft and the time that we get on a stage and really making the most of it by having, like, a really clear, compelling, exceptional idea and having that evidence to back it up and really knowing, like, what is the difference that I want to make for the audience.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:38:38

Yeah. Well, you know, the thing you said about being an exceptional speaker, what you're doing is you're preparing all the time, and that's why the story file comes into play. That's what will actually make you a thought leader if you think about it. Think about a thought leader. They're always saying things in a different way. I'll tell you something that happened to me yesterday, just to give you an example. My hairdresser is amazing. She's not just a hairdresser. She's a thought leader. And every time I'm with her, I'm like, God. The hair is the bonus, but I feel like I'm paying her because she's got all these great concepts and ideas. And yesterday, she said we should practice the art of not completing our sentences. And I go, what do you mean? She goes, you should start your sentences about something and say it is, and you shouldn't finish it. You shouldn't say this is good. It is bad. Then that stops you.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:39:25

It becomes this discipline of not putting judgment on it or not thinking. And, you know, and I'm going to give you an example. This is a really good story that she said, and here's a, here's like, she's doing a great speech just in a chair. She had a good concept, and here's a good supporting story. Her sister was an addict, and she said, you know, as much as everybody in the family was like, oh, poor her. Guess what? She ended up OD-ing, and at her funeral, so many people came and said, she helped me to become clean. She saved my life. And even though she couldn't, she wasn't able to get over it herself, it's like if I add my judgment to it, and I'm saying, oh, it's it is so sad. She's out there. I had no idea that she's helping hundreds of people. So, don't complete your sentence. Practice the art of not completing your sentence. And I was like, look at you. I was like, you're a motivational speaker, like, all the time.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:40:20

And here's where I became exceptional. I put it in my story file, and I always credit when I hear something from other people. I'm always going to credit the person I hear it from. Right? So, they put that as my story and my concept in my story file. I can go on a stage and tell you the story I just said. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:40:38

Yeah, that preparation isn't this thing that we do in a closet. It's something that we do every single day as storytellers, as speakers, as thought-leaders, of listening and paying attention to what we experience out in the world, what we hear other people say. We get more of what we look for. And so, it's just kind of like turning up our antennas and looking for those moments, those golden nuggets of knowledge, of wisdom, and seeing life as the preparation, not the preparation being in isolation that it's actually happening all the time.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:41:19

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to use you as an example, Marli. You are fabulous at engaging with your audience and beyond the stage, on social media, you are so good at engaging with people, connecting with people because you're constantly doing it, it's like every time you're doing it, it like, imagine that you're grabbing a gold coin, a gold coin, a gold coin, a gold coin. Then when you get on the stage, it’s easy to hand out the gold coins because you've been collecting them. Right? You are a person that lives this way, and it's one of the reasons when we first met. Remember this funny story is like, how have we not met? We know so many of the same people.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:41:56

It's wild. And when we first met, I immediately connected with you. And we had that moment where we just went Facebook live, and it was great. You live that all the time. So, I would say you always are preparing. I would just for you, I would be like, just be a little bit more intentional. Grab specific stories and gather them. But that's why you are a great speaker. That's why you are also great at improving because you're already grabbing all the coins. You're like, Mario, like, do-do-do-do-do-do. You know, you're like Super Mario and,

Marli Williams [: 00:42:26

I love it. And, yeah, collecting those and I think using them on purpose.

Cathey Armillas [: 00:42:31

Exactly.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:32

So, I would love for you to share any final thoughts that you have with our audience as they go out into the world. They want to be a better leader in their life, in their business. Any final thoughts or golden nuggets you would want to leave them with today?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:42:48

Yes. I have one. When I was, like, 16 years old and I joined my first gym in Southern California, I'll never forget this, on the back of the shirts, they had a quote, and I love this quote. The quote said, there's no such thing as staying the same. You're either striving to get better or you're allowing yourself to get worse. That is the sentiment that I would love to pass on to any leader, to any speaker, to any presenter, to any human is that anything that we want to be exceptional at, we have to strive to be better. There's no such thing as staying the same.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:25

I love that. And I love that idea of having a growth mindset. And that's one of the things to me I love about leadership and I love about speaking and facilitating is like, how could I get even better? And there's no there. Like, I don't think I'm ever going to get to the point where, like, I'm not growing. I'm not trying to find ways to enhance my craft. And so, what a beautiful message to leave people with. So, if people want to learn more about you and your work in the world, where is the best place to find you in the world?

Cathey Armillas [: 00:43:59

So, this is funny. I'm the only Cathey Armillas in the world, especially if you spell it right. You know, I have CATHEY. And if you do that, you'll find me. My website's Cathey Armillas. Everything is Cathey Armillas.

Marli Williams [: 00:44:11

Awesome. Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, definitely check out her amazing work. If you are looking for a speaker coach, she's phenomenal. She has amazing resources and if you're looking for a speaker for your event too, check her out. So, thank you so much for sharing your heart, your knowledge, your wisdom with all of us today. So, so grateful to have you on the show and to have you in my life. Until next time, everybody. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next week. Peace.

Marli Williams [: 00:44:39

Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.

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