This transcription is provided by artificial intelligence. We believe in technology but understand that even the most intelligent robots can sometimes get speech recognition wrong.

 Alright, clip notes is live. If you can't listen to every show, but you wanna know who was on and what was said, then sign up for clip notes. You get a one paragraph summary, key moments in bullet point, format, and timestamps, and one to four video clips from the show. This is a great way to stay current, share insights with your team, and maintain your commitment to developing them during these extraordinary times.

Sign up at any episode page on the website, or send a note to CliffNotes, C-L-I-P-N-O-T-E-S. At this week in health it.com

welcome to this week in Health It, where we amplify great thinking to Propel Healthcare forward. My name is Bill Russell Healthcare, CIO, coach and creator of this week in Health. It a set of podcast videos and collaboration events dedicated to developing the next generation of health leaders. . This episode and every episode since we started the C Ovid 19 series has been sponsored by Sirius Healthcare.

Now we are exiting the series, and Sirius has stepped up to be a weekly sponsor of the show through the end of the year. Special thanks to Sirius for supporting the show's efforts during the crisis and beyond. I. Today I'm excited. I, I met Sherry Dve, who is the president, CEO, and board member at Gram, mostly through social media.

I was impressed with their social media posts. We started a conversation and, uh, I looked at her background and I thought this would be a great person to, to, uh, showcase on the show to get her. Thinking on the industry and where things are going, what it takes to be a, uh, female leader for a health tech startup, what it takes to be successful as a health tech startup.

She has great experience, great background. She's been quoted all over the place in, uh, cio.com, NBC, Becker's, you name it. She has done great work. She's been a part of MIT technology review. She's been a part of Johnson and Johnson. Just a, a great background and I enjoyed the conversation and I hope you enjoyed it as well.

All right. Today we're joined by Sherry Ville, the president, CEO, and board member for Gram, which is a health tech company that facilitates communication between a clinician. It, it allows insights, reduces the time to treatment, you know, just all around it saves lives, it increases hospital revenue. Great.

Uh, great organization. Sherry, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you so much, bill. It's an honor to be here. So did I, did I get that right? Is that, is that the gist of what Gram does? That's exactly what we're working to do. Yes. Save hundreds of thousands of lives and delay disability while helping health systems be successful.

Yeah. That is the, that's the fun thing about, you know, once you really get going in the health tech space, if you establish, if you, if you get past that first hurdle of getting into, you know, getting past sales and the first couple clients and getting funded. There, there is something about the ability that we have to, to impact literally hundreds of thousands of lives of, of helping people get the right information, of helping clinicians to have a better experience all around.

And at the end of the day, really, you know, not only enhancing lives, but saving lives. Yes, that is my life's work, so thank you. It's exciting. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna, I think, you know, we, we've gone back and forth on this. What I'm gonna do is use social media somewhat. 'cause that's how we met.

We met through social media and I'm gonna use that to frame our conversation. But before we get there, I think there's, there's a, a bunch of stuff to really learn from your journey. So give us, give us a little background on how you got to be the CEO for a health tech startup. Oh, thank you. Uh, so before I joined this company, I was a consultant and I did economic feasibility and physician acceptance research for primarily medical devices.

And I had gotten into that because after about a dozen years working at Johnson and Johnson, which is based on the east coast. I'm from Silicon Valley, so I wanted to see if I could build a career here locally, uh, and be more West Coast based instead of moving to the East Coast. So I'd done a brief program at Stanford called Emerging Entrepreneurs Biodesign, and what I learned did they bring together, you know, physicians, engineers, lawyers, not many people have experience out in the physicians.

You know it to be a great opportunity. And one of my clients medical device client introduced me to the founder and that's how I ended up becoming CEO and the, the board appointed me, uh, when the founder decided to go back to medical school. Yeah, it's, it's interesting how each one of these health tech startups has, has their own story.

At what point did you come in, at what stage were you at, were you guys raising money? Was it early stage or, or had you already. Gotten through some of those stages. Yeah. So that's how I had, um, come to become CEO of the company, is that I had brought in some of the early investors and, and the biggest investor, uh, and board member.

And so that's what they were looking for that, you know, in the CEO. So how far along are you at this point? I mean, you guys have a, uh, pretty good, uh, client base. Are you, uh, progressing? Yeah, that's a good question. So what we've, we've done a very non-traditional path, so I have a biopharma background. Uh, and so what I wanted to do after we had the testing of our first platform and dozens of clinics, um, and got feedback on the functionality, we took a step back because we, we realized we didn't really have at the time.

The regulatory and compliance infrastructure, you know, that we've been working on, uh, recently to build in terms of ISO 27 1 27 2, you know, NIST 8 53, you know, high trust and, and all the levels, and really making sure that we have that locked and loaded before we really try to go to market on.

It's, it's, it's, it's interesting 'cause I just did a consulting project on that. A lot of the health tech startups are trying to figure out the, the compliance framework for not only hipaa but for, so, uh, not sox, but around the ISO compliance for their data center and some of 'em around, uh, you know, taking, uh, payments and those kind of things.

It, it's not as, I mean, it's not as as simple as what people think to just. Start, start doing whatever you want in healthcare. Exactly. I was talking to a friend that I'm working on a technical standard with a new based in Israel, and, and he, he was saying that even though they're using a, a public cloud, it's still like 80% of their own work on top of that to really meet the requirements of like a implementation.

So what, what, to answer your question also more clearly is that, uh, what we've been working on, what we initially the product was like, how do we enable physicians to use their phones? Because right now, like as we see in the pandemic, a lot of us are learning that environmental buildings are actually bad for our health 'cause they seal air in and they don't change.

There's also unintended consequences with mobile computing. With modern buildings, for example, windows are coated with metal ions, but people who work on cell phones don't realize that they block cell phone signals. So there's a lot of technical challenges, uh, with mobile computing that we spent a ton of time, um, helping to fix.

And we were very fortunate to do some research, uh, published in the Journal of Hospital Medicine. Uh, and it was that it was transparently laid out there, that that was a challenge. You know, we, and so a lot of our early work was focused on that. But then as you know, to be successful in a healthcare environment, it's so much about the process and the people.

So we really needed to also then take a step back, not just compliance and security, but also what is the implementation, what's the change management? Oh yeah. You know, I, and, and I've mentored a couple of, uh, startups as they engage health systems. And it's interesting that where they start. After they engage a health system, there's, there's so much they learn in terms of how to actually get their, their technology implemented.

But there's also, uh, this, this phase where they, they, if they're, if they're gonna make it, they will take that input and they will constantly be iterating on their product. And I saw this, you. One of the people who did this extremely well was Glen Tolman with, with Livongo, I remember. Mm-Hmm. . You know, having those meetings early on and you know, now of course very recent, you know, multi-billion dollar, you know, success story from their perspective.

But he was one of those people who was always asking questions, what can we do? How do we, and this is somebody who'd been in healthcare virtually his entire life. And, uh, was still in that. Yeah, tell me what we can do. Tell me how we can do it better. You know, what are your clinicians saying? It was, it was really interesting to see, and that's really the mindset that startups that make it have, it's like, what, you know, what else do we need to do?

I completely agree with you and I, I just, I loved the email. Uh, you, you had sent some of our preparation that said, feel free to correct you. Uh, I'm not, I'm not out to correct you at all, , but, but I love, my favorite saying is, I am, I'm ready to be wrong. That's what I always love, uh, to tell the team and I, and I feel like to be successful in, in this environment, particularly in startups, but also in healthcare, we kind of have incentivize people being.

You know, wanting to defend being right. And I think we'll go a lot further. You know, y you know what, actually, while we're, while we're talking about this, let's, let's, you know, it's, uh, I've, I have two daughters and one's in, one's in college, one is outta college. And I'm always looking for role models to, to talk to 'em about, and I'm mentoring some people as well, and I'm constantly.

That's that, that I think that the people I'm mentoring would love to hear, which is, you know, put yourself in that sort of mentoring role and, mm-hmm. and mentoring another female leader. You know. Let's, let's first talk about a woman who's not ACEO yet. How do you prepare knowing what you know now as the, as ACEO and board member?

How do you prepare yourself when you're not, as you are progressing through your career so that you're, you're ready to take that, that type of role? That's a great question and, and I think that really self-awareness is, is really the biggest lever that, that you have because, you know, having daughters, you know, you probably have talked to 'em about it, or maybe you will talk to 'em about just getting a lot of missed mixed messages from a lot of stakeholders or.

Or people or, or institutions. And, and really it's the clarity of having self-awareness and, and navigating what I think women leaders face, you know, lots of paradoxes. And, and at some point I got to, got to a point in this journey and I was very fortunate. Like I said, uh, I brought in the biggest investor to the company is also my mentor, but, and we, him a, his great leader.

CEOs in Silicon Valley that he's mentored and, and so, you know, has seen a lot of movies, mentored a lot of people. And, and the thing about innovation, um, is that innovation does not discriminate. And so that's why he, you know, he is then, uh, very open to mentoring lots of different people, not just, you know, the classic prototype.

And so I'd say to your daughter. Just work on understanding herself and understanding what motivates her and, and what she's interested in understanding, uh, what drives her understanding sort of her, her own psychology. Uh, and that's the best place to start, you know, when you're young, because she's in college, right?

Yeah. I mean, innovation doesn't discriminate. Is is such a, uh, one of the phrases I've been, uh, saying an awful lot to people is write your own story. Don't let anyone else write your story for you. They, they will have input advice. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're gonna have input. They're going to, you know, be supporting characters or whatever, but make sure you're writing the story that you wanna live.

And like that is such a powerful statement. Innovation does not discriminate. I will, that's going into my file. Watch's a credit whim. Romance, but yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Will do. Alright. Well, you know, so we're talking about a, a woman who is not ACEO yet. Let's talk about a woman who's getting ready for their first CEO role.

So they, they've, they've had a, a successful career. They've been identified as somebody who can run a company and somebody saying, all right, it, it's your turn to step into the role. What do you wish somebody had whispered in your ear as you were getting ready to take that role? I, well, I, I would just recommend that, that they listen to their own voice and try to have empathy for people's reactions, uh, choices You.

Much of the time, if there's a negative reaction, it really has nothing at all to do with me, and it has more to do with the person, um, potentially their insecurities. Maybe they had some sort of, um, past big success and some sort of past technology, um, and now they're having, you know, trouble sort of renewing some kind of success.

And so I think one big message I wanted to get out today, especially with the pandemic, is that there's a huge sur resurgence of bullying just everywhere. And we see it all the time on social media and videos and everything. And so the one thing, um, that, that really took me by surprise that was really hard and that that made me a better person, was just dealing with the bullies that came out for.

A, a resource for that that I'll direct you to because it, it went viral. It was, I think the, the, the title of it was The Toxic Jerk Meeting Guide, and, and it's all based on research on, you know, and so I'm all about, you know, using evidence to continually improve, you know, evaluate, you know, yourself, you know, make sure that, you know, kind of your side of the street is, but also, you know, just recognizing.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting on, on the bullying thing, and I'm not sure I put it in that category, but I, I might put it in that category is, and I, and I saw some of the, some of the posts around, around wearing masks and clearly wearing masks. The, the evidence is just astronomical in, in, in favor, right?

So if, if, if everybody's wearing a mask, the transmission, and there's a reason that doctors have worn masks. A century. So it's there. However, I, I see too many healthcare people screaming at people through social media like, you're an idiot. You need to wear a mask. I'm like, that doesn't seem like the way I, I wouldn't look at my kid and say, you're an idiot.

You need to study more. That doesn't seem to be how we, the ball.

Do you think there's a better way to approach this, that we can get more people to just say, yeah, that that makes sense. We should be doing this? I mean, that's what I'm seeing when I go out on Twitter and I see people just, it feels like they're just slamming people for not wearing a mask instead of trying to, I don't know.

I help them to move down. Yeah, that, that, that's a great, great point. And, and I think you knew this, but I'm, I'm married to a physician, uh, and so I do have a, a bias, you know, for masks obviously, and, and being in microbiology, you know, training in my background, you know, I've obviously. You know, seeing the benefits of masks, you know, we've gotten a lot of mixed messages, though from a variety of what you would consider authority figures, and so I, I tend to try to go to a place of empathy, both for those non mask wearers as well as for the healthcare providers, because, you know, if you put yourself in the shoes.

Of the healthcare providers and, and the, and the situation they face with these patients when they're in the ICU, especially if it's a busy zip code, uh, that is a heartbreaking situation. People can't breathe. They've got people waiting in the halls of the ed. And, and these are situations and scenes that a lot of us Americans when we're out, uh, in our communities, don't really understand or are privy to.

And so I. Understanding for why physic physicians are so hurt and angry about people not wearing masks. Right. But at the same time, you know, the majority of our society are not scientists and they're not physicians, and they intellectually, if they're getting a mixed message about wearing a mask, not wearing a mask, which by the way, is not the fault of the authority because when you think about people that are in public health or even in infectious diseases, the thing about masks, environmental engineering, and.

Are trained in not even the best doctors. So to blame them for lack of training in fluid dynamics makes no sense. Right? And so I, I think the idea of science and understanding that we're continuing to learn is something that we need to try to socialize and improve, uh, across society. I don't know if that answered your question, but No, I, I'm not even sure I asked the question.

I actually, I think one of the best posts I saw, you may have seen this, had a picture and it had, you know, two people not wearing a mask and one person coughing and it said, you know, chance of transmission and they had some percentage and then they had one person wearing a mask, the other not chance of transmission, you know, two people wearing a mask, chance of transmission and, you know, the percentage goes way down as you would, as you would imagine.

And, uh, I thought that was, that was a great way to communicate it. It definitely is, but that hasn't always been communicated to us, is what the point I was trying to make. And, and a lot, a lot of times, you know, policy announcements are made based on supply chain frankly. And, and so you can see how it would be confusing, right?

It's obvious. Oh yeah. A scientific perspective. But yeah. Alright, well, you know, since we met on social media, I'm just gonna go through some of the things that are going out on social media right now and. Just talk about it, you and I'll have a conversation. So no HIMSS this year, the next HIMSS is going to be August of next year.

But I mean, you're a health tech startup. A lot of, a lot of healthcare companies, or at least people that are trying to sell into healthcare, relied pretty heavily on HIMSS as a place to either kick off their marketing or uh, to have communications with their healthcare clients. How do you think that's community does down terms of.

Their progress or their progress in innovation or anything to that effect. Well, I, I'm not sure startups, so if you're talking about subseries B in terms of capitalization and goals, so early in the life, you're, you're really driving to build your strategic partnerships. And, and so you would utilize HIMSS more as a watering hole rather than a, than a conference venue, like a, like a Cerner or.

The change in HIMSS being a, a huge, um, barrier for startups now. Yeah, no, that's interesting. Yeah, so depending on what stage you're at in your startup, would depend on what your objectives are in going to that conference. And even, even then, HIMSS might not be. Right conference to go to, depending on where you're at.

Oh, it's definitely the right conference to go to. it says, so I don't wanna be confuse, I don't wanna confuse it. I just mean the, the way that the type of tool it is based on the, the stage of company. You're so, you, I, I always recommend to entrepreneurs to go to HIMSS because you need to understand what the zeitgeist is saying.

You know, whether you agree with it.

Uh, a couple times is, you know, I, I go to the, the three conferences I go to every year is JP Morgan. I go to hims and then I end up going to the, uh, health con. I now go to the health conference. So, you know, if you go to JP Morgan, you're gonna see, uh, I mean, that's about. That is a lot of startups there.

It's close to you. So you're probably driving up there, I would assume. That's right. Yeah. Uh, the health conference also seems to be around that innovation community, really connecting private equity, venture capital, even interacting with other startups, strategic partnerships and those kind of things. But again, those two conferences, technically not a lot of healthcare providers there.

Hims is unique in. There, there, there is a fair amount of healthcare providers That's true there. And not only the executives, but also the, the next level of technical users are at that conference as well. That's a good point. Yeah. So I, I mean, do, do you find, do you like, have different strategies going to different conferences?

I go to different conferences for different reasons. And, and so I, I, the two for healthcare that I do recommend and go to regularly are, are hims and that the national ones, it's gonna be in August in Vegas. And, and so I'd like to do, um, that in some fashion, whether it's in person or virtual, depends on how they manage their indoor air , which is something I'll talk to about purpose of the national.

With the CIO communities together all at the same time where they've dedicated that time, you know, to catch up with people that they're considering partnering with or, or that they're learning together with or learning from. And then, you know, they're, you know, the, the executives that they work with, they bring them along.

And so, you know, HIMSS is very valuable for that. Now I've also been involved with regional hymns. I've been on the board of that, and that was, um, hugely valuable and in a different context, just more to have the regular touchpoint with people who are working in these IT organizations, you know, on a daily basis.

And to really understand, you know, what their life is really like. Because I, I'm married to someone who's been. Hospital administration a long time, a couple of times. And so I lived vicariously through him and we actually worked together on a lot of the different initiatives that he launched and, and, and executed in some of his roles.

But that's very different than it 'cause he's a physician. Right. And so we, we get to live the same bridge building that every it and, and physician organization I imagine has to try, try to navigate. And then on JP Morgan, it's very specific, the way that I spend my time. So I have certain people that I'm trying to touch base with every year, and so it's a very, as a early stage company, wear a lot of hats as ACEO and, and, and you have to be very careful with time.

And so I have a 36 hour itinerary that's very tightly packed than I normally execute on for JP Morgan. It's very different, very different objective. Yeah, it's, I've never done so many 15 and 20 minute meetings than at JP Morgan. Squeeze things in how they handle the air. I, I would think that Vegas would be one of the best places to have the conference.

If, if that's the indoor, if that's one of the things you're thinking about, wouldn't. I, I've had, yeah, I've gotten some good feedback. I have a friend that, that runs a, or a, an acquaintance that runs a large conference company in a different area, and, and he was recommending, I, I can't remember off the top of my head, but I can message you after this about who he was recommending because everybody who's really serious about having indoor meetings is taking a hard look at that right now.

And hopefully by August of next year we'll be looking at a different landscape. But, you know, we'll have to just, I just like everything else, you know, we're taking it month to month to see how things progress. I'm optimistic. Yeah. Yeah. I would think I, it's feeling more and more like August, but again, you know, just the, the, she.

I'm not a, I'm not a physician, but just the sheer numbers. You either, you either need a, a vaccine or you need, you know, herd immunity. And the, the number of people that have to get vaccinated is pretty high in order to, to get to the other side of this. So, which just means we have to get to a vaccine that works and then get it out to a significant number so that, that's why I'm sort of telling people.

It's sort of a month to month kind of thing. Let's see. When we get the fir, we get past trials. Let's see, when we mass produce the vaccine, let's see. You know, there's, there's just an awful lot of things that need to happen, but I agree with you. You know, I'm, I'm more optimistic today about August than I was a couple, even a couple months ago.

Yeah. Well, what I'd love to see is, um, and we've been trying to promote this just amongst friends and colleagues, but I, I would love to see them, you know, sort of aggressively promulgating, uh, code of conduct that really facilitates safe interaction because I think we do need to find a way, you know, to resume business.

And, and we actually had a.

Because it was facing the ocean. So you have all the negative ions that help, you know, with filtering, um, some of the virus particles. Um, but you know, I think it's incumbent on all of us as leaders to take our risk management skills that we've had in it and apply them to our personal lives, help our teams, apply them and, and help our, our families and friends.

Then that's really how we're everybody who's. Infection strategy is what their strategy is. You know what the strategy is because I do think there's actually an opportunity. Um, there was some study that was showing, you know how if everybody's quiet and they're watching like some sort of entertainment.

As long as they're facing the same way that that, that that's, that could be safe, but it requires behavior change on our part. And so it's really gonna come down to, you know, leadership, collective leadership, you know, committing to a certain set of behaviors for people to be safe and for it to actually be safe.

So, I'm optimistic. It's possible. Absolutely. All right, so last two topics. I, I want to just touch on 21st Century Cures briefly and then, uh, talk work from home. I mean, it seems like we're. We're addressing some of these things. So let's start with, uh, 21st Century Cures. You know, one of the things about this is, you know, patient directed access to the, to the medical record through an open data standard.

No special effort. You know, if you talk to people in government. They are really optimistic. They're like, look, this is, this is what this enables and this is what is possible. You know, it could be a potential explosion in innovation around the patient's medical record. We could see new fiduciaries pop up.

We could see patient and great engagement really move forward. Uh, I, I'm curious what your thoughts are and what you're seeing and what you're hearing. Uh, well, there's definitely a lot of excitement around it, but as you know, as well as anybody, you know, being a recently and former top CIO, the devil is all in the details.

Yeah. So what I'm really excited about and, and looking forward to is the medical community really driving around some of these more complex data elements, um, that we need to see, you know, codified so that we can really make great use of fire. Because the, the way my perception of fire right now. Is that it's, it's, it's great for sort of lightweight consumer use cases.

And then, and then I did, did wanna mention too, that I love to defer to people who have better expertise than I do. And that's something I recommend to women to do is that we don't position ourselves. As the genius in the garage or the end all be all, we position ourselves as people who can build teams, who can enable people, who can develop people.

And so one, one person I wanted to really recognize for being a great mentor as well as a leader in this field is CIA Savage. And she was. Chief Privacy Officer at ONC and one of the privacy, you know, legal counsel. I think associate general counsel at United, um, now Chief Privacy Officer at ADA Health, but also a huge steward of the industry.

So I would recommend that you have her on to really give you the all the correct, technically correct, you know, current and future direction on a great.

No, I, I, I'd like to do more this fall. I mean, 'cause it's coming at us very quickly and, you know, it's, it's, it's funny, it's coming at us very quickly. It's been a, it's, it's something that's snuck up on us over 10 years. So it's kind of funny to say it's coming at us very quickly. But, but yes, the, the timelines are this fall and I think a lot of people are, um, gonna try to cram for the test that's about to come down.

So, yeah. Lisa taking action and, and that's. Yeah. And, you know, I'd love that. I'd love that connection and always, you know, love to have, uh, more diversity of thought on the, on the topic and, and talk through it and, and at different levels, right. So I, I love a niche. He really understands the policy. He understands the strategy and where they're taking it.

And, but then there's another level of, okay, you know, how does this play out? How does this play out in, in the organizations and how do we get the most out of it? How are we think, are we thinking about it? How are we thinking about it from compliance? How are we thinking about it from innovation? There's different.

Perspective around this. So it would be absolutely interesting. Let's, let's talk work from home. Uh, is me primarily work from home or have you gone work from home as, as a result of, of the pandemic a a, absolutely. So we, we've always been. Distributed. Ever since I became CEO, one of the first things I did was close the office because I thought for the size of our workforce, I really, you know, wanted to push the costs down to the studs.

And so we've always been working at ways to enable, uh, a distributed, you know, workforce and planning to go international, you know, and having collaborators that are international. It just makes sense for. Is that hard to do? A lot of healthcare organizations are, I, I wouldn't say struggling. Uh, they wouldn't say struggling.

I, I might say struggling. Yeah. Um, with this concept of remote workforce, you, you saw Epic try to bring their employees back and, and Judy's appropriately said, you know, Hey, we're missing some of the, the magic that was epic because we're not. And, and Apple made their, their spaceship. And the reason they made that was to, to facilitate those kind of things for organizations that are maybe doing this for the first time, or managers that are doing this for the first time.

How do you do this? Well, how do you manage to productivity levels that you want to maintain the culture you want to, and, and I, I, I don't just, how do you balance all that and, and move the organization forward? By yourself, , I'll tell you that. And you, you gotta, you gotta work with your team and make sure that, you know, you're on the same page, you know, with expectations around hours, around one-on-one times.

And then, and then it's all about developing the relationships. And so I, I have really radical ideas about leadership. Which I'm putting forth together with some other researchers and, and other leaders in various healthcare, uh, medical device, biotech and health systems. And it's coming out in a book, um, called Mobile Computing, uh, in Medicine, overcoming People Culture and Governance.

And we're actually launching it at him. So maybe that's why I'm promoting him a very excited about it and for it. Right. But I, but I, my point of view is being Gen X and being.

I, I think remote work is the future, especially since I do have a lot of collaborators that are international and, and it doesn't make sense all the time on a plane, even if, and so in terms of a first time manager, uh, looking for a way to promote teamwork and relationships. The three tools I would suggest are regular one-on-ones.

The other one is a book called Measure What Matters, it's Objectives and Key Results. And, and so as long as people care about each other and you have objectives you're working towards, they will deliver for the other people. So you wanna build strong relationships so you can execute on those key results.

And then the third thing that, that, I've been lucky to have a lot of mentors. And in various parts of the ecosystem is to have a chance to be involved with different conferences, to, you know, write, to edit this book, to work on technical standards. And I always include colleagues in, in that work. And, and so it develops them.

It also, you know, improves our relationship, helps us learn things, you know, together that, that we would necessarily learn. And, and so in terms of keeping a remote workforce, you know, motivated, um, engaged and developing, I. That's fantastic. So you have a book coming out next year at himss that's, that's exciting.

That's some great stuff that you just shared. Uh, the ok, the OKRs and measure what matters, I think is, that's probably one of the top books I've read in the last year is the Measure What Matters book. That's, uh, it really is exceptional. So Sherry, thanks. Thanks, thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

Oh, it was my pleasure and honor. Thank you for having me. I, I, you know, I'll let you have the last word. Is there anything we didn't cover that we, we probably should talk about? Well, it's something you brought up in the email, so I wanted to go ahead and address it for you and your daughters and you can decide whether it's appropriate for, for a bigger audience.

Right. That it, it was centered around, um, how I'm able to do this wanted. Just return back to your support structure. So I don't, I am not a single person. I'm a no. And a network, you know, that allows me to move forward in what I consider to be a movement. And so I, I would just consider talking to your daughters about, you know, who's on their team, how do they build their team, and start, start that really early and then, and then when you talk about, you know, who the spouse is, you know, whenever I talk to any successful one.

Factors into, into whether or not they were able to be successful. And so selecting the right person and then having that mindset of constant negotiation, you know, because like I said, as women, we have a lot of different stakeholders. That, that have either different expectations or different insecurities that they may try to project onto us.

And it's really up to us to define our path. I think you said write your own story. And so it's, this is just an extension from a woman's point of view of, of how you go about writing that story. And I just, it's, I'm passionate about just telling women about it because I feel like a lot of times women are looking for approval or, or looking for somebody else's path, and that's.

Yeah. And, and we are, somebody once said, you know, you're only as good as the, the people that are around you that you talk to on an ongoing basis. And actually that's, that's a generalized quote of something more specific. Like, you know, the, the 10 people you talk to the most will determine who you become and, and what you, what you look like.

And, and I, I think that's so true. And I think that's. We are the people we allow into our lives, the people we interact with on an ongoing basis, and the people we choose to, to, to spend our lives with. But, but you are, you're also negotiating with them, right? Because we all grew up in a context and we're, and we're moving forward in an evolving world, you know, so just one small example is just, you know, negotiating with my husband.

And the way I suggest to women to do that is to look at your life together, like a portfolio of activities, and then make sure that you're clear on your priorities, kind of like, right. And then what's important? And you'd be surprised sometimes what you assume is important to your spouse, it might not be.

And we found that a few times and it really has helped, you know, move the needle on stress management and prioritization. And so I, I, I suggest that, I mean, one very simple example and, and I think it's important for women right now. Women in the pandemic have been slammed with this new order of magnitude of domestic overhead.

I don't know if you've heard about that or, or talked to anybody about it recently, but, you know, with kids at home, um, we don't have kids, but you know, for a variety of reasons. 'cause. Going out to dinner, dinner you doing take and all that. And so one of the adaptations we made was there's an amazing woman nearby.

It's not expensive, so it doesn't cost us more than buying our own high quality food. And so I, I looked at my husband and I'm like. We used to go out, you know, x number of times a week. I'm like, do you, does it matter if somebody else made the food? Like, I don't need to be ? And he's like, no, but you know what I mean?

Like as a woman, even Gen XI, I've kind of, you know, had a pause at the beginning like, oh, am I, you know, being who I'm supposed to be, you know, if somebody else makes our food, you know what I mean? And I'm just honest about that because I.

In partner? No, this, uh, I really appreciate you sharing all the things that you have shared and, uh, I don't do this to my daughters often, but I'm, I'm probably going to, uh, coax them into listening to this podcast. They hear their dad's voice and they want, they want turn it off immediately. I'm, I, I don't think that's true, but that's such an honor.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, thanks for your time and yeah, I look forward to, to catching up with you at hys when you release your new book. Should be fun. Likewise. Thank you, bill. That's all for this week. Special thanks to our sponsors, VMware, Starbridge Advisors, Galen Healthcare Health lyrics, Sirius Healthcare Pro Talent Advisors, and HealthNEXT for choosing to invest in developing the next generation of health leaders.

If you made it this far, you're a fan of the show, please do me a favor and share it with one other person. Shoot 'em an email, let 'em know you're listening to the show and you're getting a lot out of it. The other thing you can do is sign up for clip notes and then forward it on to your team, forward it on to other people within your health system.

Please check back every Tuesday for the news Wednesday for solutions and Friday for more interesting interviews with industry influencers. Thanks for listening. That's all for now.