Handling Sensitive Client Revelations in Coaching Sessions

In this welcome-back episode, Angie and John delve into the challenging scenario of clients unexpectedly revealing sensitive issues during coaching sessions. They discuss the importance of not overstepping boundaries and trying to become a therapist, but instead, how to handle such topics with skill and humanity. The conversation includes personal anecdotes and strategies for managing these moments, while maintaining a safe and supportive space for clients. They also touch upon maintaining emotional neutrality, asking guiding questions, and allowing clients to process their thoughts and emotions without feeling judged. Additionally, John and Angie discuss the broader application of 'holding space' and the significance of self-evaluating coaching sessions to continually improve and better support their clients.

00:00 Welcome Back: Handling Sensitive Topics in Coaching

01:09 First Experiences with Sensitive Topics

02:56 Navigating Emotional Responses

04:48 Balancing Empathy and Professional Boundaries

09:37 The Importance of Holding Space

16:40 Creating a Safe Space for Clients

32:35 Self-Evaluation and Continuous Improvement

34:02 Conclusion and Future Topics

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2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: Grow Your Coaching Business & Master Coaching Skills 64

Angie, we're back, and today, today we're diving into a bit of a tricky one.

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So this is our welcome back episode.

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So, you know, there's moments in

coaching where maybe a client suddenly

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drops a bomb on you, like, uh, sort

of, oh, by the way, I hate my boss

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or hate my marriage, or maybe my cat.

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And you're sitting there thinking, oh,

this was supposed to be about your,

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about your quarterly goals, right?

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Angie: Exactly.

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Uh, you know what, and I think

that's when coaches either

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freeze or they over-function.

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Um, start pretending that they're a

therapist from some Netflix drama.

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Um, none of that is good.

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None of which is good.

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John: No, it doesn't go well.

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So we are not here to teach anyone

how to be Freud in a hoodie.

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What we are going to do is unpack how

to handle sensitive topics without

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panicking, without crossing lines,

and without running for the hills.

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Angie: Yeah.

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And ideally I think with a bit

of, of skill and humanity, because

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let's be real sensitive stuff will

always creep into coaching sessions.

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And the question is, do you

step up or do you stuff up?

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John: Nice.

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Let's get into it.

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Angie: what was your experience like

the first time somebody dropped one of

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those bombs out of left field on you?

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John: Gosh, I think we actually did

plan a session where we were gonna talk

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about something a little sensitive,

and I wasn't sure how I was gonna

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handle it, so I was already a little

bit nervous before the session.

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And I, I guess I had that concern

that I didn't want it to delve

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into therapy, therapy territory.

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Um, I've studied, I've studied psychology

and all that, but I'm not a therapist.

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I'm not a psychologist.

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I'm not a psychiatrist.

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I, I'm not a head stringer.

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If you wanna refer to, um.

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That's, it's not, it's not my thing.

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So, so I was a, I was wary, didn't know

how, how things were, were going to go.

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And probably it was a little tentative

and, and let the, let the client

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lead it a bit more in that session.

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But I didn't really have it sprung on me.

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How, how about you?

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Angie: Oh, I think I still

have things sprung on me.

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And I think the difference now versus

initially, you know, when it first

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started, I started to see it happening.

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Um, because I think when I was a

younger coach, I was more nervous, like,

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uhoh, uhoh, stay away, not therapist.

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'cause like you and anybody who's

listening, like unless you are a

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licensed or trained therapist in

some way, you should absolutely veer.

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Like, steer very clear of that.

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Um, veer away from that because

it gets a little sticky, right?

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Between, we've talked about this before.

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What's a coach?

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What's a therapist?

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What's the difference?

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But I, I feel like now I look for that.

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It's, it's an interesting shift for me.

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I look for, I don't want

just the right answers.

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I kind of wanna see what's really going

on behind the scenes because that's

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what's dictating, you know, whatever

it is, belief, stories, whatever.

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John: I think it's inevitable, inevitable

that we're gonna have to deal with

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some of these things when, when you are

coaching people, even if you coach in a

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specialty area, the chances are at some

point something's gonna be going on for

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somebody that you might just need to

address in the call and and talk about it.

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And sometimes emotions

overtake in those situations.

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And that generally is the bit, I,

I don't think I struggle with it.

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I just wasn't sure that my

approach was gonna be the right one

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because I'm very, what's the word?

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I'm very stoic.

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You know me, Angie.

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Angie: my John John's not stoic at all.

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John: I'm not, I'm not Mr.

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Emotional.

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And so his thing, it's like if

someone's getting into a strong

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emotional state on a call with me,

I'm not gonna follow them there.

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I still want to relate to it, but

I'm not gonna follow them there.

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'cause I think that's the danger with

those things of, we often feel we need

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to, like, in terms of rapport or whatever

else, match and mirror the, uh, the

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emotions that are being sent to us.

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But we, but we definitely don't.

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I feel there's more of an importance there

to hold the space for somebody and to be.

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More neutral, emotionally

neutral for them.

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So I'm not happy.

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While they're pouring their heart

out, I'm not sad to join them there.

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I'm sort of in a neutral space where

I'm holding their space and like

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and letting them know this is a safe

place if you want to talk about this.

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Don't be shy if he knows tears are

coming, whatever else, let it out.

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You know, I'm not, I'm not

gonna judge you for it.

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This is a safe place for you to do that.

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But also, I'm not gonna join them

there, and I'm not gonna try and pull

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them out of it sooner while they're

still trying to process it either.

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That's pretty much how I handle it,

and it seems to work okay for me.

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Angie: Yeah.

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No, and I think I, you know what?

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I wanna talk about something that

you said just because I hear it all

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the time and, and then I wanna come

back and say, you know, mention

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something that I do when this kind

of comes up, because I feel like.

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One of two things when

this happens, right?

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Either something situationally happened

for a client, right in the absence of

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the week or whatever since you've last

spoken, it could be that perhaps there

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was an illness or something unexpected

that showed up right in their lives.

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That's one thing.

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Right, and I feel like it's important,

and I'm gonna come back to this holding

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the space because I hear it all the time

and I'm like, huh, I think we need to dive

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into that because I think that people look

at what that term means very differently.

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But anyway, let me kind of come back.

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So.

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But when somebody comes out

with a statement that's not just

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situational, like, oh, my cat died,

you know, or something, and I'm,

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I'm feeling all the feels today.

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You as the coach have the authority,

right, and the permission to say, well,

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A, should we still be doing this session?

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You know, it depends on what it is.

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Sometimes it's better to push them

to stay in because they need the

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session, even if they don't realize it.

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And other times I think we

need to honor them and just let

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them go and have their space.

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Because we're not therapists,

we need to sometimes step away.

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But the thing that the surprise is,

which is what we're really talking

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about, I've kind of learned to

give them that minute to, you know,

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whatever, like a minute or two to say,

well wait, what's, what do you what?

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What do you mean you hate your husband?

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That's news.

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Pause, stop the presses.

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Tell me a little bit about that.

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And if they start trying to go,

oh, back in the beginning of time.

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Wait, wait, wait, wait.

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And I'll bring them back to center,

which is now, and say, well, how

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is this affecting you to today?

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Right.

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I just shift it into how does that affect

what you're doing, how you're living.

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Your moment, your energy, whatever that

is, because I don't wanna focus on the it.

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I wanna focus on the what

is the result of that.

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This way I can stay coaching

and not focus on the focus.

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John: I think it's super important that

you bring that up because, uh, I, I've

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definitely had those, those experiences

as well where you just know it is not

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a good idea to continue with the call.

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And so I, I know in no circumstances

am I saying just push on with the

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coaching regardless of what's going on.

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I had, I had somebody dial into a

call whilst they were being evacuated

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from the home during the flood.

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What the hell are you

doing on the phone to me?

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Deal with that.

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Deal with that.

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I didn't

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Angie: I bet you that was a

really high performer, right?

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Was it a really high performer?

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No.

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Like somebody of high level.

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John: It wasn't so much, but

it was only, it was just like,

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I didn't want to let you down.

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And I thought that, you

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Angie: Oh my gosh.

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John: not to show.

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I was like, oh no, please just go

and deal with your emergency and,

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uh, we can sort ourselves out when

things are a bit more settled for you.

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But, oh my goodness, those sorts of

things, like, no, we do not continue

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with the coaching call or, um, my

brother-in-law died this morning.

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Well, please go and deal with your

family first and, and sort that out.

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This is not the time

for us to have a call.

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You know?

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It is.

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It is just, yeah,

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Angie: when they wanna clinging on.

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But you know what, in that space, I've

had several people throughout the course

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of my career that came with something

really big, right where I was served

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with divorce papers this morning.

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John: Yeah.

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Angie: I had a death in the family

or somebody had a heart attack.

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I've had those happen and sometimes I have

to push them off, like kind of get them,

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like shake them off my leg, if you will.

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And I don't mean that to sound negative.

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People like, don't come at me.

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I just mean that they're so

desperate for comfort in that moment.

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And if, if I have a great rapport with

them, of course they want to come and, and

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and latch on a little bit, and I have to,

I have to kind of push that away and say,

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you know, I'm here for whatever you need.

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I'll probably give 'em about 10

minutes and say, you know, I'm

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very sorry that this is going on.

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I don't just like hang up

and say, go deal with that.

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Right.

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Of course, I'm an empathetic human being.

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And say, you know what?

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I think like, what do you

think you really need?

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You don't really need me.

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What do you really need?

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And then guide them to go do that

instead of talking to me and you

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know, don't worry about the session.

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Yeah,

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John: Absolutely not, not just gonna

hang up on you in that situation.

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We wanna try, like, we're

gonna gonna guide you a bit.

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I'm always gonna say something like,

Hey look, this isn't gonna count as

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one of your sessions, so don't worry.

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We'll, we'll book that in another time.

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Um, but yeah, definitely get them

a bit of, get them focused on what

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they can do for themselves right now.

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Um, so it's that maybe a little bit

of coaching, but a full session.

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No, not in, not in, not in

those sorts of circumstances.

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I don't think that's a, I

don't think that's a great

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Angie: how do you, but how do you like,

so how do you manage it though, John?

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Like in the session, you know,

you're talking to Angie and Angie

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says, you know what I really hate.

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This, or you know, maybe

it's a goal that we've had.

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I've had, and all of a sudden I say

after 20 sessions with you, you know

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what, I don't wanna be a speaker anymore.

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You know?

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And you're like, well wait a minute.

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We've done 20 sessions.

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It's funny.

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That should come up.

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Right?

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But I'm saying, so.

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So how do you navigate that?

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Like how do you once the shock,

you know, and it has to be pretty

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quickly, we have to train ourselves

to be not reactive, right?

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Not react, so to speak outwardly, but

say, okay, now how do I navigate this?

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So what do you do?

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Is there anything like

specific or is it case by case?

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John: Fairly, fairly much the

same thing in each situation.

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I, I, first of all, when somebody has

quite a big turnaround like that, I, I

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want to get why, I want to understand why

they've had that, because I wanna know

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if it's just fear that's coming up for

them, uh, if they're backing away from

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something that they do actually really

want to do, but they just come, the, the,

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um, insecurity or the imposter syndrome

or whatever else is kicking in, I wanna

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know if that's what's going on for them.

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And so we are gonna check

in as like, all right.

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You know, how, how do we

come to this decision?

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What, what's made you reach this

point and what's making this

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other path look more attractive?

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And I, I will ask direct questions

like, is, is this about safety?

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Is this about wanting to feel safe?

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Or are you feeling fear coming up for you?

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Or are you just feeling, uh,

re recognizing, I'm realizing

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this isn't what I want anymore.

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Now they could still bluff you on this

if they really want to, if they're

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trying to deceive themselves on it as

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Angie: Or they say, or they

may not even know right.

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Themselves.

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They may not even realize that.

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But anyway, but go ahead, sorry.

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John: But I think when you start, when

you, if, if that's the case, I think

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when you start diving in and asking

the questions, those more instinctive

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responses that will come up from

them are gonna be more truthful.

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Whereas if they are at.

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Actively trying to, uh, deceive

themselves, which could ha could happen.

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I don't think it happens very

often, but I have come across it.

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Um, then, then you're gonna get, you're

gonna feel a bit more blocked, but

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you probably are gonna sense that they

are trying to cut off your options

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into diving into that any further.

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They're not going to want to explore it,

and that probably is gonna be your cures.

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There is something there.

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You have to make the call, or you

might even say, maybe just address it

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directly and say, I feel like there's

something there that you want to avoid.

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Uh, if you don't want it, if you really

don't wanna talk about it, please just

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say, I really don't wanna talk about it.

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Or, um, maybe it's something

we should get into.

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What do you think?

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Angie: Right.

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I think that because that has happened

pretty often, you know, I have had people

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quit jobs, literally like multiple six

figure jobs and say, you know what?

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I've just had enough and.

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I, you know, shake my head and

go, wow, where did that, we've

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never talked about that once.

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Where did that come from?

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Oh, you know, because of our coaching.

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And I'm like, what part?

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Right?

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Because it didn't ever come up.

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Um.

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Specifically, but like yourself, I

definitely need to ask and verify.

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That's the first thing that pops into

my head is say, okay, I don't wanna

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tell them that this isn't the right

thing, because maybe through the course

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of our journey, they are becoming

more aware of what's more important.

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So I'll use, you know, I've had

a couple of high level people

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quit very hockey level jobs and.

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Walk completely away from that career.

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It wasn't even the, the

company or whatever.

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It was literally walking away from that

space and, you know, looking for freedom

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and, and being prepared to do that.

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I, I do, I, I, I don't think,

like, I don't have a specific

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line of questions that I use.

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I think it's more of Oh

wow, that's exciting.

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Like I will show up most of the

time excited for them because

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I'm gonna treat it as though

it's a new level of awareness.

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And the interesting thing is that.

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When I've done that, there are a couple of

times where the client was kind of offput.

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They were like, they weren't

joining in, in the celebration.

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And I was like, oh, well wait a minute.

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So are you as excited as me?

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And they, you know, no.

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And I'm like, really?

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I would, I, I dunno if I had something

new or some clarity, I'd be so excited.

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But that's not you, which is fine.

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So tell me like how

you are really feeling.

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And then the verification comes in,

whether it's like, yes, this is something

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that I really wanna do because right

for you and me as coaches, or anybody

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that's a coach, it's not our, it

shouldn't be at all our job to tell

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anybody what they should or shouldn't do.

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Where they should be happy,

what changes they should or

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shouldn't make, no matter how.

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'cause it's usually when

somebody makes that statement.

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It's usually a pretty

bold statement, right?

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I've never experienced

it on the lower level.

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The ones that have shocked me have usually

been like, I quit my job on Friday.

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I didn't give them two weeks.

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What?

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Tell me how much courage that took.

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Right?

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Like I go into the positive instead of

going, wait, I'm shocked because they

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feel like that's a bit of a judgment.

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John: Maybe a little.

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I, I definitely see the benefit of

approach that, your approach and, and how

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that leads to leads, that kind of result.

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And I think that fits much more with you.

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Um, my style is a little more zen, uh,

and a little more That's interesting.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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Tell me more about that, or, uh,

how are you feeling about that?

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So we kind of, we will probably

end up in much the same place.

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Um, but yeah, just different ways

of, different ways of getting there.

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But yeah, it's still the curiosity that

we still have to lead with curiosity,

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uh, o over judgment is like, this

is, uh, I'm not never gonna say this

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is a shock or this, this prior oil.

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Uh, and say, all right.

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I might say, oh, I didn't, didn't

expect to hear that today on the call.

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So tell me more about this.

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How you feeling?

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Angie: Right.

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I might say something to the effect of,

I didn't even realize that was, depending

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on what it is and who it is, right?

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We're making up scenarios here,

but I might say, wow, I didn't even

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realize that was on the radar for you.

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Lots of courage.

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Good, better, indifferent.

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How did you get there?

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Tell me what, what brought you to there?

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I would love to know.

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So when I show up with that

different level of curiosity,

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it just opens the door.

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I don't want, 'cause I

think you said this too.

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Um, we've talked about it where

people like, you just said it

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today, I didn't wanna let you down.

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Sometimes they don't tell us things

because they are worried about what we

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think, and they kind of take the take

to the, the, uh, project or the shift

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alone because then there's a question

mark around it for them, whether it's

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ethical or, or something like that.

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Yeah.

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John: This is for me.

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Uh, I don't know how you're gonna feel.

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You may or may not agree with this, but

I tend to intentionally go silent in

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those sorts of points if I feel that

there's something they're not telling me.

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Because I generally find people get

uncomfortable with the si silences.

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They may even say something like.

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Is everything okay?

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Can you still hear me?

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Or something like that?

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Yes, I can still hear you.

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And, um, it's intentional because

the awkwardness of silence is

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generally gets people to start talking

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Angie: Mm-hmm.

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John: and they u they usually will.

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Yeah.

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Angie: I, you know, it

depends on the moment.

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You know, if I ask a question or if a

statement's made, if they even make a

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statement sometimes that is shocking.

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I will allow for the silence,

so I'm with you on that.

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I definitely feel like if you let it sit

in the air, it creates the elephant in the

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room, and I'm certainly not addressing it.

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It's not my elephant.

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So I will sit there with it and if

they go, hello, can you hear me?

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You know, I'm sure I can hear you.

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And then I don't say anything else.

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John: Yeah.

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Uh, I would look, I, I do think there

are, and may, maybe this is, this

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is for me, but there's always stuff

that's gonna come up that may be

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inappropriate to say on a call like that.

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And if you are someone who is

naturally as a coach, you are a bit

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of a, a joker, you're playful with

your clients and stuff like that.

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This is not the time for that.

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Just, just to be clear, this is, this is

not the time to try and try and lighten

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things up with a joke or try and make

their journey, uh, a little easier.

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Or, you know what?

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Whatever you trying to change their

mood with some humor or lightness,

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this is not the time for that.

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You do need to know what, when is and

when isn't the time for those sorts of

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things to come into your coaching work.

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This is the time for a little

vulnerability and, and emotional.

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Connection with them and,

and giving them the space.

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So the space to speak and the

space to think, if anything,

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if you're gonna say anything.

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Um, maybe it's just tell me more

about the, tell me more about that.

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Angie: So tell me this, so when you talk

about the holding of the space, right?

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'cause you didn't say that term just now,

but you kind of said, I'm letting them.

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So when you think of holding space for a

client, tell me what that means to you.

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'cause again, I hear this all the

time, and then I'm, I'm kind of like,

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oh, is that what that means to you?

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I'm a little curious about that.

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John: Yeah, there's, um, it, it

really is a principle of giving.

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I'm creating some psychological safety.

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That's, that's how I look at it.

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And so in the principle of that,

psychological safety is about creating

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these environments for people where people

feel that they can open up and say what's

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truly on their mind, truly in their heart.

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Uh, and that's what I want to give them.

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So, um, in doing that, I'm really,

I'm really just being, as I said,

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being this emotionally neutral

place where it's just like you

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can talk, um, not not judging you.

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I'm not gonna interrupt you.

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I'm gonna give you the space to think.

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So tell me, tell me more about this.

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Let's.

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So let's talk a bit more about that.

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Uh, as much as they want to,

you know, they'll, they'll tell

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you whether they do or not, but

they're not gonna push anything.

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It is just giving, giving them space

and being present and listening

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to them so they know I'm here.

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I'm tuned into you and only you,

and I'm listening to you, I'm

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listening to everything intently.

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I'm gonna hear everything that

you said and, and probably more of

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the intention behind it as well.

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But this is your space.

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This is, this is your safe area.

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So some, it doesn't

necessarily always have to be

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Angie: to be.

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John: expressed, um, verbally.

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fact, generally I don't, generally

I just feel that you get that

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feeling of, of holding the space.

427

I mean, when, when I used to work

in personal development events,

428

there would be this talk about

holding the space for the audience.

429

So when they'd, especially when they're

doing like, um, hypnosis from the stage

430

or something, something along those lines.

431

And now they're talking about

more and sort of energetic.

432

Intentional kind of thing, and

it's like, oh, okay, sure, fine.

433

I, I don't know how relevant

any of that is, but Sure.

434

Um, but there, there is a big difference

of how your energy shows up and how

435

that affects the responses you get

from somebody that you're working with.

436

So, so for me it is, I, I'm creating, um.

437

An emotional space for you to be,

uh, like what would we call it,

438

an emotional safe space for you.

439

I know that, that, that term probably

has connotations that not everybody

440

loves, but this is, this is your

safe space to tell me whatever you

441

want to tell me to get it out and.

442

Angie: whether they like them or

they don't, we are coaches and.

443

The clients in our sessions

always need to feel safe.

444

It is a safe space.

445

So for anybody who doesn't like that

term, I don't really care because

446

we need to do that as coaches.

447

Nobody wants to work with

somebody that, yes, we can be

448

challenging, but in a healthy way.

449

I've, I've had coaches

that were jackasses.

450

And kind of bullies like,

what do you mean you're not?

451

I'm like, whoa, right.

452

Thank you, daddy.

453

I'm like, ah, you're making me nervous.

454

So anyway, I'm sorry, I just, I wanted

to say that because you referenced it,

455

I was thinking of it and I was thinking

like, oh, I wonder if anybody's gonna

456

say, oh, emotionally safe space, because

I heard even people say it like that,

457

and I'm like, what is wrong with you?

458

We're coaches, of course,

we're supposed to have

459

John: But there.

460

Angie: safe space.

461

John: But there is this, I guess there

is this interpretation or negative

462

interpretation of, of a safe space being,

uh, more like somewhere where you are

463

wrap, wrapping someone up in Cotton

Mall to protect them from the world.

464

That's not what we're,

that's not what we're doing.

465

We are help, we're helping to process.

466

We are actually investigating, digging

deeper, showing up with curiosity.

467

We are not, we're not trying to.

468

Create, um, a ball of cotton wall to

protect them from hearing anything,

469

hearing something they don't want

to hear, or facing up to a hard, a

470

hard truth or anything like that.

471

So I think that that's sort of

the interpretation that people

472

have had about, uh, safe spaces.

473

But I think if you, if you've, if you've

ever found yourself in an environment

474

where you didn't feel that you could

comfortably express your, your.

475

True opinion.

476

Your true thought, you show up as

yourself, then you have experience not

477

being in a psychologically safe space.

478

You've, you've had that experience

and I think there's probably

479

nobody who hasn't felt like that.

480

Very few people are that sort of, um, what

would you call it, uh, ignorant of their

481

environment, that they wouldn't have some

situations where they, where things don't

482

feel appropriate to say, or where they.

483

Maybe hold themselves back a bit

from sharing what's what, what's

484

coming up for them in their minds.

485

We all have that.

486

Angie: Or that space where you mentioned

earlier where somebody has said like,

487

well, I didn't wanna let you down.

488

That's like a moment to really.

489

Reframe things with a client and

make sure that they, they shift

490

how they, they perceive you.

491

You're not the authority.

492

You're not a parent, you're not a boss.

493

You are literally there as a safe

space for them to be as vulnerable

494

as you can get them to be.

495

And when I think about holding

space, I feel like as a coach, the

496

entire session is holding space.

497

And then what happens within the session,

there's different levels of that.

498

Sometimes it's silence.

499

Sometimes it's lower

energy, calmer energy.

500

Sometimes it's different

types of questions, right?

501

Not, not so deeply provoking.

502

Um, again, I, I think, I just think it

depends, and that's why I was asking

503

you like, what are you, what's your

pers like, what do you think about

504

in terms of holding space and holding

safe space I think is really important

505

because when we're holding space,

there's usually some kind of moment.

506

Right.

507

There's something pretty big

in the in the minute, and we

508

need to adapt to what that is.

509

But in my mind, when I think about

holding space, I'm like, it's

510

really my whole session, isn't it?

511

For me, it

512

John: There's, um, there's

a, a really nice book.

513

There's a really nice book on

this, um, which, which is called

514

Time to Think, and by, it's by a

lady, a lady called Nancy Klein.

515

Have you come across it

516

Angie: I have not.

517

John: and.

518

So what it really, it really is about

creating that space for somebody to be

519

able to express themselves, to give them

the room, to be able to, to think and to

520

talk and to have those silences and to,

uh, foster the, the safeness, the safety

521

and the, um, openness to be able to.

522

Get, get to the heart of things

and for people to express,

523

think themselves more deeply.

524

And, and so that is a, you know, if

anyone was wondering, oh yeah, I kind

525

of like the sign of what you're saying

with the holding the space or thing,

526

but I don't really fully get how to

do it or what, where to go with that.

527

I would check out, I would check out

that book, time To Think by Nancy Klein.

528

Um, lovely book.

529

Very gentle, very gentle

read, and, and very helpful.

530

And, and that not just in sort of, um.

531

Coaching sessions for like life

coaching or she's in business

532

situations and things like that.

533

Creating these spaces for people to think

and to be able to express themselves.

534

So it's, it's a, a

useful, useful resource.

535

Angie: You know, I am gonna look into

that because I would like to see, I

536

would like to read more about that,

um, from a different perspective.

537

Uh, you know, something I wanna mention,

and I don't know if you ever did this,

538

but it's something that, because I

used to train coaches, you know, in the

539

coaching space, and one thing I noticed

is that many times when we, or as a coach.

540

Sh like hits a nerve, right?

541

They find an opening.

542

They go, Ooh, I did like,

Ooh, we hit something here.

543

We've struck gold.

544

Something that happens when they stop

holding space is they get so excited

545

that they finally struck gold that their.

546

Energy increases and they kind of

try to like pound it home and they

547

ask more and more questions, right?

548

More quickly.

549

Rapid fire that's not holding space.

550

I think that's something to recognize

is that if you do happen to, and I hope

551

that you are as, as coaches, right?

552

You're hitting your, you're finding

you're s striping gold and sometimes it's.

553

Big, big piece of gold, and sometimes

it might be a little bit of dust.

554

Either way, it's still gold that

that's a moment when you kind of take

555

a step back and let it, like, let

it bloom, let it ride a little bit.

556

Control your own, harness your

own energy, because I think

557

naturally we just get excited like,

yay, we've done something here.

558

But I, I've done it.

559

I've done it way in the past.

560

I recognize it.

561

And I didn't recognize that I did it

until I observed other people doing it.

562

And I was like, Ooh, I've done that.

563

So now I intentionally kind of say,

well, and whatever the follow up

564

question might be like, that's a really

interesting thought share, whatever

565

the word is, tell me more about that.

566

Or I direct the question so

that they have more time to

567

let it out so I can learn more.

568

John: Do you know, I, I was, um, uh,

because I wanna share something with you.

569

I can remember, you know, I'm

not, not like super, not Mr NRP

570

or anything like that, but I did

do NRP trainings back in the day.

571

Uh, um.

572

Some of it, some of it was useful, a lot

of it was just, I dunno, not that great.

573

But, uh, I know some people

love N-L-P-I-I, I'm not,

574

I'm not really one of them.

575

Um, aspects of it.

576

Yes.

577

But, uh, after the training had finished,

and this was like a, what they're called

578

master results level training, uh, and

I wasn't, I wasn't a student there.

579

I was actually one of the,

uh, trainee trainers there.

580

And, um.

581

After the event, people were sort of

kind of running around wanting to do

582

the techniques on each other and almost

trying to pull people into techniques

583

that, and we ended up having to have

this conversation with the group around,

584

um, becoming a personal development

asshole who's somebody, somebody

585

who's just like, okay, you are super

excited about it, but you are pushing.

586

Angie: Yes.

587

John: and personal

development onto other people.

588

You do not need to evangelize this.

589

Um, this is, and that's

not the way to do it.

590

And this, it kind of relates to

what you're saying about your

591

excitement doesn't translate to

other people's excitement about this.

592

Uh, and so you far better to take the.

593

By all means, have conversations with

people and see if things go there.

594

But, um, you know, it's like if ev

if everything looks like a, you know,

595

if, if your only tool is a hammer,

everything looks like a nail, right?

596

You're just gonna try and bang everything

into being this thing that you want

597

to get a result, get a transformation.

598

I want results.

599

So my coaching

600

Angie: yes,

601

John: Sometimes it

doesn't happen that way.

602

You need to let things brew naturally

and take the, as you say, take the a step

603

back, be a little more deliberative about

it, and just keep the, keep the note.

604

That's interesting.

605

This is something we might come back to.

606

Angie: It's funny though because I think

that if you do that, if you had other

607

questions, if you let them talk for

just a minute or two, which is a lot of

608

talking by the way, even three, all of a

sudden they're answering your questions.

609

And they're develop, they're, and,

and they're doing it on their own.

610

They're learning how to navigate

their own, whatever it is, feelings,

611

emotions, or energy around something.

612

So you're actually doing them good

by using maybe silence or, you know,

613

one quick question to lead them.

614

Like, oh, tell me more.

615

I love, tell me more.

616

You know, I don't like to do it

because I have this vision of like

617

somebody sitting on a couch in a

room and there's a person with a

618

clipboard or a legal pad going, yes.

619

Tell me more about that.

620

That's only a piece of it.

621

So when John and I say like,

oh, we say, tell me more.

622

It's really a one piece

of a bigger picture.

623

But when you say that, you know,

and you say it in the right way,

624

like, oh, tell me more, right.

625

Or however you're saying it.

626

And you just sit back and you

give them what John was saying,

627

that undivided attention, um, no

commentary, just let them get it out.

628

Nine times out of 10.

629

They come to their own, they come to

their, not a conclusion, I guess, but

630

they'll generally answer all the questions

that you thought you should answer to

631

get them to the point that they get to,

except you've given them the space and the

632

control to kind of get there themselves.

633

So it is important to do that.

634

John: They don't need to

be pushed over into it.

635

They, they will get there.

636

Um, and so, and it can end up

becoming your impatience that

637

can actually derail that process

638

Angie: Absolutely.

639

Oh my God, have you met me?

640

I mean, I've had to.

641

No, listen, I mean, we joke,

'cause John knows me on a personal

642

level, but I, you know, I tend

to, when I get excited, I'm like.

643

Boom.

644

I just have to do this and take

out, I am not a procrastinator

645

and, but what I've had to do is

learn how to harness myself even.

646

'cause who I am as a person is of course,

into, in some way, shape, or form, going

647

to translate into who I am as a coach.

648

So I've had to navigate and of course,

hone myself, hone my own skills.

649

And this all does go back to

what we were talking about.

650

Like what do you do?

651

When a client drops a bomb on you or feels

like a bomb, or some like, ooh, moment,

652

John: Yeah,

653

Angie: you know, excuse me, holding

space, I think in, in a, in a positive

654

way is a great way to meet them.

655

John: Yeah, absolutely.

656

I, I think this, I think this

we, we've covered probably.

657

The essentials on, on this topic.

658

And I, and I do think, you know, one

thing we, we do wanna be very aware

659

of is when sensitive stuff comes up.

660

Um, I think it's probably a good idea

to review yourself afterwards as well.

661

Or like, did, did I, did I actually

show up in the best way for that client?

662

Uh, is there something I could

have done better with them?

663

You could maybe even ask

them on another call.

664

Know, how did you feel on that call?

665

Did, was, was the responsiveness kind

if, depending on your client, really.

666

But, uh, but I think it's good for you

to evaluate yourself after that and

667

maybe find the ways that, that it's

gonna come up again at some point.

668

So you'll be more prepared for it.

669

But it is experience

will help you to do that.

670

So it's not to beat yourself up if you

didn't, if you weren't as great as you

671

could have been in the circumstances, but

more to, to grow and evolve, um, because

672

we can all get better at doing, dealing

673

Angie: We should talk about that in

another episode because that's something

674

that I do after every session anyway.

675

I definitely do.

676

I, I always ask myself

like, what went really well?

677

And the other thing that I do at

the end of a session is I'll ask

678

somebody, you know, somebody taught

me to, to use different wording.

679

I use this wording 'cause it

has worked best for me is, you

680

know, what did you value today?

681

And you'll get that information from them.

682

John: And yeah, I would love to maybe

come up with like, how, how do we

683

best self evaluate and review our

coaching so that we can keep growing

684

and developing into the future.

685

We'll do that on another episode coming up

soon, but really, really happy to be back.

686

It's great to be speaking with you

again, Angie, and I hope this has been

687

some value for our listener as well.

688

Angie: I love it.

689

So thrilled to be back.