Jamison and Delaney of Screaming Hound Home Brewing join us for some candid feedback from a pro! Bobby and Decker share some notes on some samples and offer some encouragement to these two young homebrewers.

Bonuses you won't hear on the main feed: Taste test brew #3, an iteration of the amber and Jamison's solutions for highly pressurized bottles.

Want to try Screaming Hound brews? Join the Green Bay Rackers Homebrew Club! https://www.rackers.org/

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--

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome to Respecting the Beer!

01:42 Why They Started Brewing

04:02 Apartment Brewing Gear Talk

06:47 First Brews and Saison Disaster

09:37 Oktoberfest Tasting and Bottle Conditioning

16:20 Extract Sweetness and Boilovers

21:35 Next Sample Corn Amber Experiment

22:21 Taming the Corn Flavor

22:46 Carbonation Chaos and Aging

23:55 California Common Breakdown

25:48 Hops Choices and Storage

29:44 Hop Sensitivity and Gruit Ideas

33:46 Bottle Reuse and New Glarus Tips

35:28 Homebrew Club and Water Chemistry

38:56 Brewing Advice and Wrap Up

39:58 Support us on Patreon!

--

CREDITS

Hosts:

Bobby Fleshman - https://www.mcfleshmans.com/

Allison Fleshman -https://www.instagram.com/mcfleshmans/

Joel Hermansen

Gary Ardnt - https://everything-everywhere.com/everything-everywhere-daily-podcast/

Music by Sarah Lynn Huss - https://www.facebook.com/kevin.huss.52/

Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow - https://davidkalsow.com/

Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another exciting episode of Respecting the Beer.

I am Decker, and, uh, we would have Gary here, but he got lost in a vat downstairs.

He saw the Luco faucets and, uh, Bobby was like, "Yeah, making lagers," and he was like, "Let me see." And then he hopped in, and, uh, it turns out you don't float in beer, you just sink to the bottom.

So he's, uh, he's making his way- Is that what Archimedes said?

Is that- Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely Archimedes said.

But Bobby, how- how's it going today?

The sun is shining.

It is.

It's a, a beautiful day in, uh, Northeast Wisconsin.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

We're sitting here with Jameson and Delaney.

I think it was in this room I met you guys.

Yeah.

Maybe.

Maybe I met you before that.

We met

during Lagerfest-

Okay.

Yeah … if I

remember correctly.

And tell, tell me- And I was, I was in the process of burning up our second receiver in 24 hours- Yeah … and, and you have AV background, so that was fun for me.

A little bit.

Yeah.

A little bit.

Um, they were, they were just talking in, like, a foreign language before Jameson and David, before we got things going, and, uh, I, I walked in and I thought I was at the wrong place because we were just

They were saying XLR.

That's the only thing I remember, and then there were so many acronyms that- Yeah … now my head is spinning.

I am self-conscious.

Uh, we just connected our 1970-something vinyl through some- Ooh … 1970 receiver today, through a Bluetooth.

Oh, nice.

Oh, sheesh.

So I just did that last night and I felt very accomplished on that one.

Honestly, that's- Today … that's

a win.

Yeah.

Analog to digital-

Oh, yeah … back to analog.

I don't know how the audiophiles- Whoa … feel about that, but-

Probably not great.

Eh, we're good.

But we're, uh, we're not talking about, uh, about AV equipment tonight.

We're talking about home brewing, something, uh, like, we all have enjoyed here.

And, uh, Jameson and Delaney, tell us about what … First off, what got you into the art of home brewing?

I would say probably the, just the, the idea of what makes a good beer a good beer, and then also we just, like, happened to be, like, sitting at McFleshman's, and we were like, "Could we try this?" And that's, that's kinda how it started, I feel like, is just like, "Can we do this?"

Mm-hmm.

"Can we not do this?" And then it just spiraled into a- And then somewhere you go

from- Home brewing is a spiral … will we,

should

we?

Should we?

Yeah.

Do we?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Mm-hmm.

It was, it was a lot of that, and then it, it eventually turned into, "Well, let's try a one gallon." And then it turned into, "Let's try a five gallon."

And then now it turned into we have a Brewzilla fermenter.

Oh.

Yeah.

And now we're, like, extracting the yeast.

We're like, "That's too much yeast."

Yeah.

Harvesting yeast from old projects- Yeah … and, like, keeping it.

All right.

All right.

Is it … So the Brewzilla has, like, a- It has a- … you screw on the thing and the- Yeah

the bottom, and it collects the yeast?

That's really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's come in handy with our most recent one.

I've realized that, uh, Safe O4, the English ale yeast- Man, if I put that in my plastic bucket on a five-gallon batch, it would've blew the top off

Oh, yeah

It was wild- Yep … at 70 degrees exactly.

Yeah 'Cause that's what it's sitting at- Uh-huh … 90% of the time.

I'm like

That yeast is very sticky, and it- Oh, yeah … it makes a huge cap.

It feels like putty.

What's

that?

I

put

my, I put in my hand in it- Oh, yeah … when I extracted it, I'm like- Yeah … "This feels like putty."

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I love that stuff, though.

It's weird- I geek out on that … but it's so

cool.

We call it beer porn.

We have an open fermenter here- Oh, nice … and we can see that happen in real time.

We have, we have an English yeast usually on display.

Yeah, and they catch me just staring at it like a pervert.

One time I, uh, I accidentally did an open fermentation because my cap wasn't-

uh, clean when I was putting everything in.

So I was like, "I'll just, I guess we'll just open ferment this one for, uh, for at least right now." And, uh, yeah, it was a good thing I did because I, I was using the English Ale yeast making an IPA, and it was like all the way to the top.

Like, it would've- Cool

would've pushed out the, uh, the air lock.

And those yeasts will pump up the pressure- Oh, yeah Yeah … like, to 20 bar if you had to.

Right.

That was crazy, man.

300 PSI.

It's insane what they can accomplish.

We, we normally switch between 04 and 05- Yeah Mm-hmm … for a

lot

of our stuff because, like-

Yep, that's your English and your American.

Yeah.

Yep, mm-hmm.

So, like, we, we really switch between those two because we're in an apartment.

Yeah.

We can't really get, like, a dedicated kegerator to ferment in that's big enough, and we can't really put it under pressure because we're like, "Well, we're in an apartment. Yeah, let's buy like 10 pounds of CO2 and see what happens."

I mean-

They generally frown on it.

Yeah, a little bit.

The landlords do, which is another reason why they should abolish landlords.

But-

But

that, that took a dark turn.

No, uh, my fir- when I first did home brewing, I was in an apartment.

I made a, um, one of those Mr. Brew kits.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And, uh, I made an American light lager, which certainly was not lagered, nor was it light.

But I remember, like, tot- like, thinking going into it, "I have all this stuff that I need for this." Yeah.

Like, I, I have a buck- It came with a bucket.

I got the paddle.

I got everything.

And then I was making a trip to Walmart at, like, 2:00 in the morning, being like, "I guess I need a bigger pot because I gotta boil this thing, and I need, I need a strainer for all this other…"

Like, it, it, it's such a spiral to, like, get into it.

And, uh, but the end, you're like, even if it's kinda crummy, it's still like, you made it, man.

So it's, uh, it's a fun- Yeah … fun hobby.

And the industry's come a long ways with equipment.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah.

You can, you can do very little and accomplish a lot at the same time.

It used to be the opposite.

You'd have to go… Home, Home Depot was your, was your- Yeah … home brew store back in the day.

It, it is cool to see that now there's like, like we were talking about the Brewzilla type of … That started- Yeah … after I started home brewing, where like it was just buckets.

Yeah.

You had white can't-see-through buckets, and you had clear glass carboys and stuff, and that was it.

I am scared of the glass carboys.

I was gonna say, I, I actually shiver- I am terrified … every time I hear that.

Yeah.

I still do it myself, but I still am so nervous messing with glass carboys.

We borrowed one carboy once from one of our friends who wanted to home brew with us.

He ended up buying a bunch of used stuff, one of which was this big glass carboy.

And we needed to use the fermenter, and it was already done fermenting, but we weren't ready to bottle, so we decided to secondary in it.

Yeah.

And we were so terrified of breaking that thing.

Did you have like the basket that goes around it so you can actually pick it up- No … by the handles?

No.

No.

It was- Yeah, so did you, did you have a plastic handle at the top that you lifted up by?

No, nothing.

Just

straight glass.

It

was

just big glass.

I've got one of those at

my house right

now.

Yeah.

It's, uh, yeah, it's, it's tucked away far away.

We also have two dogs, and one of them- Oh, god … is a 100-pound blue tick coonhound who is scared of all of the wood floor.

Yeah.

And there's no carpet in our apartment realistically.

So- Okay … he just like slips and slides all over the place.

Woof.

No kidding.

No pun

intended.

Yeah, no doubt.

Yikes.

That was … Da- David's laughing at my terrible, terrible pun there.

Put it on the soundboard.

Let's go.

Yeah.

So, um- All right … your, uh, your home brew experience, what was the first beer that you brewed?

So the very first one we did was yours.

We, the first kit Was it an Irish?

It was an Irish red ale.

Yeah.

It

was an extract kit, a one gallon.

It was not an Irish red ale.

It was a, what I would call a light Irish red ale.

Sure.

Um, m- and we ended up after that one-

We tried

the saison … I think, we tried a saison, and then we learned that saison is picky.

Oh, yes.

And you should probably get your water quality figured out before you even try a saison.

We had battery acid.

We got battery acid.

Oh, yeah.

Which I don't know how.

Temp is really important on the saisons too.

Like- Yeah … you got, you have to have like a, like a, what's it called?

A ink bird so you can like change, like ramp it up so it doesn't do like…

Yeah, it's crazy.

Also

patience.

It goes into this dormant phase- Yeah, patience … at the end of… So it, it metabolizes a certain segment or, or portion of the sugars, and then once it finishes those, it just sits idle for- Yeah … who knows how long.

And even like, even monks, you know, they'll brew with the Belgian yeast, and even in their cellars they have signs that say, in their own language, "Respect the fermentation," however you translate that.

No one speaks anywhere near the fermenters.

And that's, some of that's because they're monks, but some of that's- Yeah … because this damn yeast is so cantankerous.

Yeah.

So.

I, we, yeah, we found out the hard way because we bought two of that kit, so we tried it twice.

And we were like, "Ah, let's pop it into like, uh, like a calculator."

And we're like, "Oh, it's missing a little bit of grain. Well, we have rice. Let's try adding rice to it." Bad idea.

It somehow came out worse.

Yeah.

Worse than battery acid?

But we also… Yeah.

Ooh.

The more battery acid.

Oh, no.

It went

from like- It was like battery acid with cardboard and- Oh, wow … rotten eggs.

Okay.

Yeah.

Wow.

There's- It was not great … there's, there's three hours right there we can cover.

Yeah.

There's so much that went on with

that.

So bad with that one, 'cause at that point, that was before we learned that our sanitizer wasn't sanitizer.

Oh,

no.

Yeah.

So we bought- Oh, wow … PBW and someone told us that it was sanitizer.

Mm. Okay.

And then we found out Star San is sanitizer.

Yep.

Yeah.

So we're like, "Ah, so PBW-" Yeah … "do we keep it?" And they're like, "No, keep it.

It's a good cleaner." We're like, "Cool."

Well, interesting thing about PBW is it's actually food.

Yeah.

So it could, if you had any- potential contaminant, uh, it really just exacerbated that- Hmm

at the same time.

Yeah.

So if there is an acid coming from a wild yeast or bacteria, I'm just throwing it out there, if there, if there wasn't a final rinse with, uh, an ad- with a, with like a… You said you were using, uh, ACE sand or, or- Star san.

Star san.

Yeah.

If you didn't do that, then there's possibility you just put in a culture

Yeah.

No, I think that's what happened.

Yeah.

You

made the wildest of

wild beers.

Yeah.

We made a wild beer.

Yeah.

A wild American

saison.

A wild American acid flavored- There you go

… Decker: saison.

Right on.

Hey, you know, that's a lot of buzzwords.

That

would

sell.

No.

Yeah.

That's not gonna- That would definitely sell.

The ones that we did bring though, were from our five gallon batches, and this was our first one, uh, that we tried in Octoberfest.

Hmm.

It was also an extract kit.

So everything, everything's extract, right, so far?

No.

No.

Oh, okay.

This is the only extract.

This is the only extract.

It's okay, yeah.

The other two are grain.

We have

switched to grain.

Yeah.

We've switched- Yeah, yeah … to brew in a bag method.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Awesome So, which is honestly a lot nicer-

Yeah

than extract.

I never did it, but I, I was always- Really?

I, I always wanted to learn it.

I mean, it's how Australians do it, I think.

Aust- Yeah … it comes from Australia.

Yes.

They also do this thing where they'll put hot wort into a cube, and they'll just let it cool overnight.

Hmm.

So it's in a sanitary cube that can handle boiling temps.

So they don't even bother chilling it.

That's like the way that home brewers go

is- We actually haven't had that much time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We've

done something a little similar.

When we had that big snow storm not that long ago of like the whatever 20 some odd inches that we had- Yeah … we collected snow and- Yeah

we put it around one of the… Well, actually the last brew that we tried, that's how we cooled it.

We did.

Hmm.

'Cause we didn't have a wort chiller.

That's awesome.

None of these were cooled with a wort chiller.

But you're surrounded by the Arctic here.

It was with a wort chiller.

That is the, the pr- the good thing about home brewing- We are at perks

in the Northwood.

That's how I- Yeah … when I made my first stout, I had to cool it off by, uh, by sticking it outside in a snow bank for- Yeah … a long time.

We ended up just collecting it in like a, a big, uh, Tupperware, and we just surrounded the metal box- Nice … the metal, uh, pot with just as much snow as possible.

Yeah.

That

was- It was- That was fun

… Decker: I lo- This is what's so exciting about home brewing is because- I love home brewing … like if you're a pro b- brewer right now listening that never had this experience, you're probably losing your mind because like think of how unsanitary that is.

Oh.

Yeah.

Think of like how cra- Like thinking of like collecting snow and just throwing it at a stainless steel pot to cool it off.

But it's so

ultra traditional.

Oh, yeah.

Like if you wanna go back thousands of years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so wild though 'cause like when I was doing it, I'm like, "Am I gonna add something to my beer that I don't want?"

Yeah, or you do, but- We put the

lid on the pot-

Yeah, we

did

put the lid … to avoid as much

potential contaminant.

It actually, it's totally fine.

It's totally fine.

There's nothing in the air at these temperatures anyway- Yeah … that you were doing.

All right, make a sound effect with this.

Yeah.

Let's see if it works

Nice.

Got it.

I got it.

Okay.

I am probably going… Oh, okay.

I got the silhouette of the CO2 coming out as well.

Mm-hmm.

There you go.

All right.

Sweet.

I'm gonna kinda pass that along.

It is slightly-

Here, you can leave yours

… Delaney: it's slightly questionable on how carbonated this might be.

Yeah, the one that's gonna be really carbonated- Is this

bottle

conditioned or how'd you…?

So we, we did the, uh, the actual, uh, uh, it's like the bigger sugar drops.

They look like, uh-

Sure, the carbo- drops.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They look like, uh- Not, not the small ones, but the ones that look like your grandma's, like, uh, cough syrup drops.

Sure, yeah.

Okay.

Oh, hold up.

Like the hard sugar ones?

Yeah, the hard sugar ones.

Okay.

Gotcha.

And those were the ones that we did for this one, and…

Well, we did it for… I think we did it for all of them.

We're now, our- Yeah … new one that we're doing, we're trying a a blonde ale, and then the next one that we're doing is a British golden ale-

Okay

… Jamison: uh, for my f- uh, brother-in-law.

Yeah.

Nice.

So,

but yeah.

We got two extra.

Cool.

Why not?

Look at that, though.

That's nice and fluffy.

It's, it's got the color-

Yeah

… Jamison: of a darker Oktoberfest.

And this you said was an extract kit?

Yeah, this was an extract kit Mm-hmm.

This is one we got from the local brew store down in Oshkosh.

Um, that they- The Cellar?

Yeah … yeah, they make their own kits- Shout out to them … and this is one that she recommended to us since he loves Oktoberfest.

Yeah.

And all the ingredients that we got for all of our beers was from them as well.

It's

really

sweet

I'm gonna… I'll be honest, tasting this again after I don't know how long ago we brewed this, a few months ago-

Yeah … um- And it stayed in the fridge the entire time … it

tastes entirely different.

Yeah.

It…

Uh, that's the one thing that I- we've started to notice recently is our beer is not staying one flavor at all.

Yeah.

So there's no consistency in drinking one from this week to next week.

Sure.

So that's our next challenge.

Well, I think that goes with the, um, bottle conditioning, right?

Yeah.

This is, this is like the, in a way, even though this is German, this is, this is how the English make their beer.

They, they put it in firkins, cask, and they let it condition.

But this is a tiny little cask, right?

Yeah.

It's a little bottle that it's allow- It's, it's alive.

Mm-hmm.

So it's changing in real time.

The yeasts are taking up the oxygen.

They're actually keeping it from being cardboardy.

That's one of the things you mentioned earlier.

But they're also dying.

You know, at some point they start to die, and when they do, they split open and the pr- there are some enzymes that, that break out from their interns, and those enzymes break down the bubbles.

But the bubbles are, are beautiful in this.

Yes.

This has got a great, uh, texture to it, great color for, for a maertzen-

Mm-hmm

Oktoberfest.

And this is what my favorite part about bottle conditioning stuff is, like, how much the head just stays, because- Oh, yeah … it's always, it's just so much- There's

this weird

thing,

and I, I, I subscribe to it, I guess, is that when you bottle condition or you naturally carbonate something that, that the bubbles are obviously starting out as molecules before they become these bubbles.

So there's this, this idea that you can make, like, creamier foam by doing bottle conditioning.

Huh.

But CO2 is CO2, and yet the scientist hat, I'm like, "It doesn't matter where it comes from." But in practice, anecdotally, it seems to make… We do it with all of our beers that we can get away with it, and it seems to make better foam.

Hmm.

I don't-

That's interesting.

I

think- Yeah, it's fascinating.

I think we're gonna switch over to priming sugar for our next one.

Mm-hmm, yep.

We just gotta figure out the math of what a four-gallon batch is for priming sugar.

Yeah, yep.

Which isn't hopefully too hard.

We'll find out.

No, it won't

be hard.

Uh- Yeah.

There's so many calcu- like home brew calculators- Yeah … so you can just, you know, do that.

I just hope I don't explode my Fermzilla.

Oh.

Oh.

So you'd need a lot of sugar then to do that.

Is it pressure rated?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

It, it's pressure rated,

luckily.

The 15 PSI?

Yeah.

I think you could do 30 in there- I think it can do 30

'cause they do, that's where people do- Ooh, wow … like pressure ferment lagers inside of that.

Yeah.

That's what I've seen.

Nice.

It's, like we were doing some research after we bought it.

People have been using it as a keg.

Nice.

Um- Which

scares me … which-

Yeah, I wouldn't… I don't know if I would serve out of it- I think that would- Yeah

'cause like the yeast cake is in there and there's all the- Well, it, it's a

cone, so you can- Yeah … yeah … you can pull the-

Right, but you'd still have like the, the… Like, you'd have to drop a lot, you know?

Yeah, and the English yeast will never drop, so it'll always be on top.

Right.

Right.

So- Yeah.

Yeah, we're finding out that one on the hard way.

Yeah.

We've probably extracted the yeast twice and we're like, "How is it still here?"

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm pretty

sure there's still another like three cups worth of yeast that I could pull out of it if I wanted to.

Yeesh.

All right, so on this beer, uh, Decker was talking about the sweetness.

That really comes, I think, because you're using extract in this.

Yeah.

You don't have a lot of control over the fermentability of this, and generally extract beers will be higher on the, or less, less high on the fermentability, so they're sweeter in the end.

Uh- The recipe itself, they, they probably use a good amount of… Now, you added some caramel malt to this, right?

So you s-

So there is a little bit of-

You steeped that probably

uh,

you steeped, I think it was Munich malt, if I remember

correctly.

Okay.

So, so no, no, like, Cara Munich at all?

I don't think so.

Caramel

Munich?

It's been

a while since I've made this one- Yeah … so I could be incredibly wrong.

It

might be a, it might be a Cara Munich that- Yeah … that they have you steep, with that mixture of the, of the extract and the water.

They did give us, like, three of the, like, jars of Munich extract.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And we're like, "Well, why don't we- Oh, yeah … like, put a little water in here and just, like, shake it up and get all of it out?" Yeah,

yeah.

And I'm

like, "I don't know if we need to, but

why not?" And that's certainly a, a signature for, for doing an Oktoberfest is it- Okay

it leans on Munich heavy.

But you don't have control over how they made that.

If- we had Briess on here, like, a year ago or something, and Briess is a malting company 40 miles from where we're sitting, and they make a shit-ton of this extract.

Oh,

yeah.

You know, the, whether it's liquid or dry.

And I don't know how much, like, I wasn't here for that podcast, but I think they got into some of that technology.

It's fascinating, 'cause you gotta, like, go through the whole thing.

Like, you're making a, you're, they're mashing grain and they're making the wort, and then they're extracting the water from that wort to make either one of them.

It's really fascinating.

So you're, you're at the mercy of however they made that when you're doing extract.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is fun- Mm-hmm … and a little chaotic.

Yeah, right.

That was

the one that we had boil over all over the sink.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That was a fun cleanup.

You need a Girl Scout badge.

I have a daughter that's seven- … and she gets these Girl… Yeah, any time that something like that happens on Home Brew, there sh- ought to be someone make, like, these badges you can order.

Because- … you haven't lived until you've had dry malt extract go airborne in steam in your kitchen.

Yeah.

You've never seen that kind of film in your life

I will say, like, cleaning it off of the kitchen stove was probably the worst thing of my life.

Yes,

yes.

But I mixed in, uh, Dawn dish soap and PBW- Yeah

and I just let that sit for, like, an hour.

Nice.

And it

just, like, got it all.

I'm like, "Oh my God,"

definitely.

Again, that's 'cause you confined it to the stove top.

Yes.

Remember, if you go airborne with a cloud of malt - Yeah … dried malt extract with, with moisture, you are, you're testing your marriage.

Yeah.

You're pushing the limits.

You're testing your marriage.

But I think I've made eight batches of, uh, of home brew, and I have eight boil overs with, uh- Oh, man … with some form of, like, "Ah!" type of moment.

Are you doing it inside or are you

doing it in the garage?

Oh, no.

God, no.

Yeah,

I- I

did the first one inside- Yeah, I did a couple

and the wife said, "No more. No."

That was the one, you left it unattended.

Yeah.

You had to go to the bathroom.

You left

it unattended.

Oh my God.

Jameson, no!

I had to, I had to run to the bathroom so bad.

What could you possibly have to do?

What- I ran to the bathroom like, "No, it's fine. It's sitting at 210." Oh, yeah.

And then all of a sudden I hear Delaney,

" Delaney: Hey, Jameson"

" Jamison: What?"

" Delaney: It's boiling over."

Yeah, you know- "What?" You know the watch pot never boils?

Yeah.

It's the opposite.

Yeah, definitely the opposite.

Unwatched always boils.

Yeah.

Well,

I was watching it So I saw it

start to rise- Okay,

okay, so

you saw it … and I was like, "Is this bad?"

So

you, so James then watches it.

I don't know yet.

And then he- The, the protein break, oh, God … and then it starts to go over the lid and I'm like, "Oh, crap."

Oh.

We, so we brew on, of course, our system, but of course, across the alley we're, we help out with their, on their 20 barrel system, so 600 gallons.

And there have been times where we walk away from that and there's a hole underneath that kettle that goes down to the basement, and we'll go downstairs, we're washing kegs or something, and when that st- has a boil over, it might be 100 gallons of wort that come out the top.

Oh.

Oh, no.

It is something to see.

Ugh.

You've never seen that kind of a mess.

No, thank you.

I will, I will say from brewing all these beers, the one thing that I love about brewing beer so far is when I'm done my house smells like a bakery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It just smells like good baked goods, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I brew outside and I, I hope that the, the air, like, wafts all

It's like a, like the smoke signal to a fellow home brewer.

I tried to do it when I first moved in.

I, I was, like, trying to direction the steam and like, "I'll find someone," but, um-

And you're, and you're obviously doing some- Yeah … some hop or, or multi recipes right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So eventually it's gonna start to smell like herbal and grassy- Oh, yeah

and citrus, and you got all these hops in the- It's already

started.

Yeah, yeah.

And like-

That's with my blonde right now.

Yeah, with the blonde.

Yeah.

We used, uh, El Guapo and- No … or, no, what was it?

El Dorado.

El Dorado.

Oh.

Mm-hmm.

You're thinking of their beer.

I know.

Oh, okay.

My, my brain is

just- We've been rebranding that lately and it's been, it's been all that I'm thinking about.

So you saying that, it's another one of those cringing moments where- Oh, sorry … you know, it's like, "No, thank you."

My, my dyslexia, like, mixes up words sometimes.

Yeah.

But we did that one and then we did Citra hops with it and- Mm … we realized, wow, Citra hops are strong.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Also, it's kinda like the chef secret.

Yeah.

If you, if you combine Citra or its daughter, Mosaic, together, you, you almost get away with anything when you're making hoppy beers.

That's

true,

yeah.

I can

see that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You wanna wow someone, just make a, like, dry hop with those two, and people are like, "Oh my gosh, this is really good."

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

No sound effect?

Not

yet.

Well, no, not yet.

We haven't opened it yet.

What

are we moving on to now?

Oh, but I got a pitcher here so we can start cleaning out the glass here.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, we should probably do that.

Yeah.

So the next one is my failed attempt at making an amber.

I will call it a failed attempt

Specifically an amber because you wanted to play with corn

I wanted to play with corn He just- And I did too much corn

He found out corn was something you can brew with and ran with it too far

Yeah.

So was this inspired by like a Kentucky common or-

Yeah Yeah It was inspired by a Kentucky common Yeah Um, I think it was Lion Tails that did the f- the… Yeah, it was Lion Tails that did the first one that I'm like, "Dude, I really wanna mess with corn," because this was so good.

And then I realized, wait a minute, three, I think it was three pounds of corn for a five gallon batch is a little- Yeah

too much corn That's a

lot of corn.

That's a lot of corn.

Yeah.

Um- So something like, w- would that be on a, on that batch 30%?

Would it be-

Yeah

… Bobby Fleshman: 25?

It's about 30%

to 40% So, so 20's pushing it on most of that.

Yeah, I, I've, I think I toned the other one down to like 10%.

Yeah

' Jamison: Cause I'm like, "Dude, this is too much corn."

But, um, she says it tastes like creamed corn in a can.

I say it tastes like sweet corn.

We're just gonna bring it to the farmers probably.

Oh, that's a good one.

That's very nice.

That was a good one.

Oh my God.

Oh, I could tell that was gonna be a- Yeah … really happy one.

Yeah.

Uh, this is where the home carbonation

went

crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is when we were like, "Ah, yeah, carbonation." There we go.

I'm so sorry.

On point.

It's okay.

I will help you clean the table.

That's why we got, that's why we got tablecloths around here.

Thank you Jacinta's for, uh, their weekly washing.

Um- Do you want

to say I think the first, what, week of us doing this one, when you first put it in the fridge on day like four of carbonation- Mm-hmm

I'm putting that in quotations because- It was day five … four days isn't gonna carbonate much of anything.

It was, I felt like I sipped from a fresh open can in my mom's kitchen of corn on Thanksgiving.

Yeah.

Um, and then you opened it again like two weeks later, and I was like, "Well, it's-" Corn but bubbly.

And- It's sparkling corn … then had one yesterday with your parents, and it's entirely different.

Yeah.

The corn's there, but it's not as, "I drank from a can of corn."

It's interesting that you, you say it's an amber, 'cause I… It's really pale.

I, I went for a very light amber A really yellow.

A really yellow, yeah.

But you can, you can still taste

the corn in it.

Uh, honestly, I'd call it… So what'd you ferment with?

Did you ferment with a lager yeast?

We fermented with, uh, 05.

Okay.

So you could ferment with a lager yeast at room temperature- Oh … like you did with that, and that's how you pull off the Kal common.

Oh.

So, so the Germans moved to San Francisco at some point, and they started making lagers out there, but you can't get down to the temperatures.

Yeah.

But you get reasonable temperatures, so they made steam beer.

And they, they, they took their lager yeast, and they let it ferment at 50 to 60 degrees as opposed to 40 to 50, and they were, they made, they invented a style.

So for me, that's what you've brewed here, even though you've used an ale yeast.

Yeah.

That, that… Not that there's corn in there.

I'm trying to recall what's in the Kal common, but I think that it is, it's adjunct.

I think corn is one of the big ones.

I think, yeah, corn, flake corn is in the California Kal common.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So I think we used on this one- That would make sense … it was corn, it was Munich malt, and then I'm trying to remember the other one that we did, but I just don't remember off the top of my head.

You have

the app on your

phone.

Well, I'm not getting the heavy- The app … the corn that you guys are describing.

Yeah.

No, it

calmed down a lot.

It's calmed down so much.

This is night and day different from the first one that we drank.

Yeah.

That's

fascinating.

I would say this is more of, like, a corn bread that you're tasting, that I- Yeah … I taste rather than, like, a cream corn, something like that.

I would agree with you on that.

Yeah, I can actually drink it now.

This is actually quite good, you guys.

Yeah.

The, the, the foam's nothing like the last one.

I, I don't know if that comes down to… It's probably because you've, you've, you have some adjuncts in here.

You have corn in it.

Mm-hmm.

So that dilutes the protein down.

Ah.

Yeah.

So

it

was three pounds of corn, uh, two pounds of normal Munich malt- Mm-hmm

and then one pound of honey malt.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Which-

Which is like a melanoidin, kind of a- Yeah … that simulates that, that boiling of the grain process, the decoction process It

is, it is a neat beer.

I like it, man.

I've, I've given it to a couple of my coworkers and they're like, "Yeah, it's corn." A- That's the note that I got was, "Eh, it's corn."

It's corn?

So

the kit came with a hop too, right?

Did you-

No, this was all, like, my own recipe.

Okay, so what's the hop use?

So this is… The hop that I used was Cascade and Amarillo.

Okay.

So I did- Nice, so you did go west coast … just a mix of those two because I'm like, "These, for one, they sound neat.

They have pretty interesting, like, flavor profiles that I think would work

with this."

Love those hops.

I'll die on a mountain.

Cascade built the craft beer industry.

Oh,

yeah.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

The… But I like, I… From this beer, I've realized, okay, I might like that combo of Amarillo and Cascade for, like, the weird niche beers.

Yeah.

It'll be interesting with our next ones of where I wanna use the rest of my Amarillo 'cause I think I get, like, 1.2 ounces left-

Yeah

in the freezer just chilling.

How are

you storing those, by the way?

In the freezer.

So like, you- In a plastic bag with another plastic bag.

Do you have the ability to seal that?

Do you guys have those FoodSavers pre-

I know my- Yeah … my mom and dad doing it.

That's probably gonna be what I'm gonna end up doing- Yeah

but I'm gonna probably use that thing before it goes bad.

Yeah, and don't obsess anyway because once it's in the freezer, any of those oxidative reactions are slowed down to almost nothing.

Yeah.

So you're good for a long time.

Yeah, we just gotta figure out, like, when we… 'Cause we ended up going to a website, I won't say which website, but we got, like, a sample pack of hops.

Yeah.

And I'm like, "Okay, do I need… Since they're already vacuum sealed and everything- Yeah … do I need to put them in the freezer right away?" Yeah.

"Do I not?"

Yeah.

So we're kinda playing it by ear.

Temperature's key.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Man, I would drink pint after pint of this.

This is so good.

Really?

This is my jam.

I love California Common, and this is right there along with it.

Hmm.

What are the, uh, what are the stats on this one?

What did it, uh, come out at?

It came out at about 5%, and then I think it was, like, 23 IBUs.

Let me grab-

When did you add the… Was it, like, early that you would add the, the hops?

So I did- Or what did you- One- I did basically half an ounce of Cascade at, like- I wanna say about 50 minutes, and then the rest of it was split up between 50 minute and 30 minute.

Mm. So-

If it were me, I, the only thing I would do is add more hops.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, but otherwise, I think the, the body and the mouth feel are awesome.

I tried doing it- Yeah … like less hoppy because- Yeah … a lot of, me and my friends, we're not, like, really big into, like, super bitter beers.

Yeah.

So I'm like, "I'm just gonna, like, tone it down a lot-

Yeah

and then, like, work my way up."

Yeah.

You know?

And you'll find when you bottle this, it's gonna change in the bottle.

Yeah.

So you gotta, like, go a little high, and you can always, it'll always drop- Yeah … in hops, so.

Yeah, I get the- That's good to know … I get a lot of that, like the honey note and, like, the corn sweetness honey note.

Mm-hmm.

And, and when you're talking about adding hops, I'm a big… I like the noble stuff- Yeah … when I'm making stuff, so I think it's, 'cause it's fun to add, like, a floral texture-

Yeah

… Decker: or, like, flavor.

And if you add, like, noble hops really late, like in the whirlpool and stuff, then that's when you're gonna get, like, like a daisy field type of feel.

Yeah.

And, uh, that might be something that would-

I'll

show you … might benefit a beer in this, in this beer.

I'll show you this.

This is, this is the one that I'm doing w- for my, uh, for my brother-in-law.

That's, that's the British golden ale that I'm looking at doing.

I just can't say the noble hops because my dyslexia will completely mess me up.

Tettnang and East Kent Goldings is what you're going with.

Thank you.

Oh.

Yeah.

Combining Germany and England.

That's Germany.

Yeah, that's- Yeah.

My, uh- Hero … that's

World War

II, man.

Yeah.

My brother-in-law, uh, he's, he's from the UK, and he kept on telling me, he's like, "I want a beer that tastes like home." And I'm like, "You know, now that I'm starting this home brew stuff, let's just, like, send it.

Let's do some research in grains.

Let's do some research in hops."

Well, and I'll throw this out there, because we were talking Kalakama and how this is sort of parallel to it.

Northern Brewer.

Yeah.

That's the hop.

Not the, not the place that sells equipment, but, but the hop.

It's, it's a little bit woody, a little bit piney, a little bit minty, and it plays so well into this style, too.

Okay.

So I'll add that to the conversation on that.

That's the beer that he's working on right now.

I will

say, I think I am the person to blame on the us not putting enough hops into things.

How dare you?

So- Oh, that's right.

I, I ha- I talked to you this- Yeah … about after that podcast- Yeah … where you- Yeah, yeah … had, we were in the audience for it.

Yeah, yeah.

But I have that weird genetic quirk that makes hops taste awful.

Really?

Mm-hmm.

I'm

sorry.

Which is really hard for someone that wants to brew beer.

Mm. So what are you picking up on in, say, this beer?

What, when, I mean, other than- When-

… Delaney: we

talked about the corn

… Delaney: when we do them super low, I tend to not get that really nasty soap taste- Okay … that I get from a lot of things.

Yeah.

I would say the biggest type of beer that absolutely ruins me is almost all IPAs.

Yeah.

That's true.

Which is really annoying 'cause I love the descriptions for every single one I've ever read.

That's what's so great about beer is, like, just their descriptions.

But I'm really… Th- have you all ever thought about, like, doing, like, Gruit, where it's, like, herbs and things that, that spice the beer instead of the hops?

It's what they- We've been

talking about doing, like, a, a pine needle IPA- Yeah … where we just use pine needles.

Oh, that'd be cool.

I wonder if that might get around.

Like spruce tips type of thing?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, or spruce tips, yeah.

That's one of the things that I thought about.

We were at Lagerfest.

Mm-hmm.

And we were talking, was it Oat Brewing?

Yeah.

Uh, that they said that they have one that doesn't use any hops at their brewery.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so that's on the list of breweries we have to go to at some point.

Well, they're gonna be down the road in- Mm-hmm … like, how many months?

A year probably.

Three months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're breaking ground.

So I'm excited for that because they have a few that don't use hops at all.

Mm-hmm.

And I wanna see if there's a huge difference in taste.

Yeah.

But I've gotten to the point where I can do most beer.

The, I had my first IPA I could drink, like, last month.

That was the Breakfast IPA from Noble Roots.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then he told me it's a fake IPA because that's only called an IPA 'cause they dry hopped it.

Okay.

Okay, but still- That's fair.

Fair … I mean, you're gonna get a lot of oils by dry hop.

Oh, yeah.

So it's not the oils that are maybe throwing you.

Mm-hmm.

There may be, it may be the acids that are- Yeah

that are hitting your tongue in a certain

way.

Well, you could do, like, a hop shot then, right?

Just the… Do they still do those where it's, like, the syringe of just hop extract?

Yeah.

Where- I never got into that, but I know home brewers-

Yeah, when- … have

access to that.

Yeah

… Decker: when they were going for the, uh, the, like, this is about to be super nerdy, but, like, when they were going for the 100 IBA, IBU beers.

Oh, God, the IBU.

Remember that?

100?

IBU war.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What?

100, yeah.

And some people- Well,

and it's almost impossible 'cause I was asking, there's a saturation limit at, like, 90.

Mm-hmm.

So you just keep dumping it in, it doesn't do anything.

But- This guy, I, I watched a sh- a video on YouTube of him doing it, and he took, like, a, the syringe-

of hop extract and threw it in, in the, like, right away, so it was just, like, so bitter.

But it just looked like tree sap that he was throwing in.

Yeah.

But, like-

We have that.

I

can bring that out … 10 mils of it into a five-gallon batch.

But I mean, if that's, like, you don't have to do it like that, but it's-

Perspective, we're using, like, 20 mil in a 20 barrel batch.

That's crazy.

So try to measure that out for a five gallon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like that's like saying that, like, "I quadruple barrel age this beer." Like, that's as crazy as it sounds to me- Mm-hmm … for, like, the 100 IBUs of hops.

It's just like, "I triple barrel age this."

Yeah.

I don't know if I… I don't know

Well, I knew a guy that was a hop head from California that he would w- he would go everywhere with this hop shot in his, in his left pocket Mm-hmm So he, 'cause he knew everything, nothing was gonna ever hit the IBU that he wanted.

So he was just like- Doctoring

it … bam.

Was that like 2010 that you met this guy?

2012?

Yeah, yeah.

He definitely comes from the aught.

Yeah.

Man.

That, that was the, that was the Dark Ages or however you wanna look at it of- They were just- … of IPA

wars … very bitter.

You fall asleep and wake up with a pine tree coming out of your face.

Oh, man.

Allison already threw me under the bus when I made that ice cream with, with that hop resin, didn't she, on this podcast?

Oh,

yeah,

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I've been there, done that.

Yeah.

Anyways-

It's killer.

I like this beer

… Decker: yeah, I think that- Yeah … I've never had a corn beer.

Really?

I… No, this, that was the first- Without

knowing, you, you've, you haven't had one that you know of?

Well, not knowingly- Yeah … had, like, a Kentucky Common.

I've never, like, sought that style out, so that's, um, that's interesting.

Very interesting.

I was expecting this to be like you were de- you were describing this as, like, cream corn- Mm-hmm … and, and, and that, for me, is, is sometimes from a bacterial contaminant.

But-

Yeah, that's the crazy thing about the home brewing journey is every time I taste the same thing that was brewed in the same kettle, it just- Yeah … it depends on when we put it in the fridge- Mm-hmm … because we do not have space in our fridge for all- Yeah … of the, I think, what, do we have like almost 100 jars in our pantry right now?

Oh, yeah.

Yeesh.

Yeah, we, we have about 120 bottles just ready to be bottled.

I wouldn't know

anything about this kind of obsession.

So- No idea what

you're talking about It's, it's called- As we sit

in the brewery that

Bobby made, yes … it's called, uh, be friends with some of your local friends- Yeah … that own bars.

Yeah.

Because they just toss the bottles, and I'm like- Yeah, yeah … "Well, if it's amber and I can use PBW and Star San- Yeah. Yep … why not just ch-ch and- Yep, yep … reuse them?"

Yep.

I mean, that's how I have all mine, so shout out to New Glarus for-

Yep

… Decker: looking out for the home brewer.

Yeah.

The easiest label to remove-

Yeah

is the New

Glarus bottles.

Yep, definitely.

That's an inadvertent, I'm sure that was not planned.

I love it.

Or maybe it was.

It

might have been planned.

I think it's purposeful.

Yeah.

The boxes are perfect for it, too.

Oh, they're- The, like, they're sturdy boxes- Yeah … so you can, like, age them in there.

I have a whole garage- So-

full of these things … so

the story behind that- Okay … they, they went to have their boxes designed and, and, and Deb Carey, who's Dan's wife, but she really runs the whole business, uh, they, they finished the box, they brought it to her.

She was not impressed.

It looked like every other box on the shelf.

She said, "What if we turn it over, like turn the cardboard, the, the bad side out, and then print on that?"

They said, "That's ridiculous." She says, "T- trust me.

It's gonna look different than anything else on the shelf." That's why they look the way they do, 'cause that's the, that's the bad side of the cardboard.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Genius.

She's so smart.

I

don't know.

And they're super easy to carry.

Yeah,

yeah.

Like- Yeah

it's the best.

Anyways, New Glarus, thank you for being here.

Yep, no doubt.

No kidding.

So with a home brew, you're able to experiment and, um, and, you know, really try.

Have you met any other home brewers in your area?

Have you, uh, do you get together with some other, a home brew club?

Yeah, so we went to our first meeting with the Green Bay Rackers, which is our local home brew club.

Immediately we were like, "We're gonna join this group," because they surrounded us with ideas.

Mm-hmm.

The second they were done with, like, the business-y part, it was, "How long have you been brewing?

What are you doing?

How do you do this?

You're not on well water?

All of us are." And so when we started asking questions, our biggest thing we just started trying to figure out the water chemistry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which-

Well, that, that's something that takes- It's- … years to get into- Yeah … and you're already there in four months?

That's like a- Yeah … that's a-

This is my fault because I like puzzles.

Oh, yeah.

Water's really- So- … lasting to touch, and you guys- Sure … are already there.

She also- I've done everything with it

has a 75-gallon fish tank.

So she's- … been dealing with

it.

You've been dealing with water chemistry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

' Jamison: Cause we have to keep that pleco alive.

Oh, yeah.

That's like 15 years old and like-

Yeah

… Jamison: yay big.

He's hitting probably- Oh, geez … he's, he's almost 20 years old now.

Okay, never mind.

Yeah.

I was wrong.

Okay.

Yeah.

He's, he's getting old.

But- I'm sitting here remembering that we did a, an Herbiary episode out of Madison.

Have you guys heard of the Herbiary?

They, they don't use a, a single hop cone.

Hmm.

Like, that's their whole shtick.

And, and they, they made the case that you don't need hops at all to make beer.

I have not even been to their place yet, but I, I believe- Which one's that called?

It's

called The Herbiary.

The Herbiary.

I think that's what it's called.

Down in Madison, you said?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I- Yeah … I saw that pop up on Instagram and, Yeah … yeah, they, th- they, they make everything… And that's like the old style where you set, like, grew it type of thing.

It's before hops

became part of

beer.

I have a friend who does home brewing that style, that grew it- Yeah … and I asked him, like, how, how long does it take?

Like, was it, what do you put together?

And he's like very, very hippie.

Like, he's walking barefoot through the woods- Oh, yeah … to get the stuff that he's putting in the in his beers.

But they, they're… It's a really interesting taste that you know, just like any wild beer, you get that flavor of where you're from, and I think that- Yeah … is an important thing with beer to, uh, to try to capture.

As much as half of us here are hop heads, at least half of us, I, I think we- I'm a big

hop head.

We understand that it's on- it, it's the newest ingredient to the party.

Yeah.

There's been a lot of other ingredients that have been used to balance out that sweetness over the years with beer.

Yeah.

So there's something to explore there is what I'm saying.

You guys should maybe hit it up it sounds like.

You'd

definitely be the talk of the home brewer's club, that's for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's one of the fun things is there's so many avenues you can take with home brewing.

You can go down the hop route of going through IPAs and different flavors, 'cause there's thousands of varieties of hops, that every time I look and I'm like, "I'm looking for this flavor," there's like 50 options.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then-

And now they're making yeast that make hop flavors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Have you heard of this?

Like, oh my God, so we're in a whole new world.

And then not even to mention that there's liquid yeast, dry yeast-

Oh,

yeah … a million types of yeast in that category alone.

Yeah.

But then there's all the additives.

You can go spices, you can go, um, flowers, you can pick fruit.

There's a, there's a whole bunch of random chunks of wood at the brew store you could pick to throw into your beer.

Oh,

yeah, the, the- You can put pea flower and glitter in your beer like we did, 4/20 today.

Oh, there you go.

Nice.

Downstairs, so there's that.

Pretty.

It's really pretty.

Yeah.

Nice.

Ah, man, well, before we go, uh, we should get some, some worldly advice from the man who started as a home brewer, now we sit in his brewery, Bobby.

Don't do it.

If

you're opening a brewery-

All right, that's a wrap.

Well, thanks for respecting

the… No, it's, it's, it definitely is a labor of love.

Whether you're a home brewer or a pro brewer, it's, this, this whole thing connects you across all the times.

Uh, and you guys have already seemed to have drank the Kool-Aid, so to speak, so yeah, we're always-

Drank the Kool-Aid.

I think it's more of like a- The Kool-Aid is not bad … yeah, you had your first pale ale and now here

you are.

Yeah, we're always here to help.

I, I give my recipes and, and life lessons out, and I just love home brewing.

I don't get to do it nearly enough.

Same.

So thank you guys so much for coming in and sharing your passion of home brewing.

Um, I look forward to seeing some, uh, some home brew festivals and seeing you guys out there and, and trying some new beers and new experiments.

It's gonna be a whole lot of fun.

Yeah.

that's going to wrap up this episode of Respecting the Beer.

The show is produced by David Kalso with music by Sarah Lynn Huss.

Be sure to join the Facebook group to connect between episodes and support the show over on Patreon, where you can get uncut episodes, access to specialty brewed beer, and more.

Until next time, please remember to respect the beer.