Ryan Nauman hosts Zephyr’s Adjusted for Risk podcast from Lake Tahoe and welcomes Zach Conway, CEO of Seeds, to discuss how evolving investor expectations are reshaping wealth management. Conway explains he founded Seeds after seeing a disconnect between advisors’ strong client discovery and the shallow, product-centered approach often used in investment management, alongside inefficient, fragmented portfolio operations. They discuss rising demands for personalization, transparency, values-based investing, and broader solution sets such as direct indexing and alternatives, plus the need to deliver these in unified, scalable UMAs. Conway argues the industry’s biggest threat is its own reputational and process failures more than AI, while noting technology must help advisors provide a better human-led experience. He outlines how Seeds supports deeper investor understanding, proposal creation, and automated implementation, trading, tax-loss harvesting, rebalancing, and cash management.

Learn more about Zephyr here.

Learn more about Seeds here.

00:00 Podcast Kickoff

01:09 Meet Zach Conway

01:40 What Seeds Does

03:18 Why Zach Started Seeds

08:21 Industry DNA Shift

10:55 SpaceX Expectations Example

13:51 Modern Investor Experience

18:13 Human Advisor vs Apps

20:53 Meeting Expectations Today

27:19 AI Balance and Risks

32:34 Scaling New Products

37:08 Biggest Threat Is Us

40:21 How Seeds Helps Advisors

42:45 Where to Learn More

43:02 Final Thanks and Outro

Connect with Ryan Nauman:

LinkedIn

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Ryan Nauman Market Strategist Zephyr:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to

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Zephyr's Adjusted for Risk podcast

from the shores of Lake Tahoe.

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I'm Ryan Nauman, the market

strategist here at Zephyr.

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Client expectations within the wealth

management space have evolved greatly

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over the years, and financial advisors

are likely to be left behind if they don't

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understand and exceed those expectations.

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I have on an industry expert

to share his insights into

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exceeding client expectations.

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But first, today's episode is sponsored

by the award-winning Zephyr, which

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helps investment professionals

make more informed investment

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decisions on behalf of their clients.

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All right, enough from me.

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I have already talked enough.

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I've taken up too much time already.

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Let's go ahead and bring

on the star of the show.

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I'd like to give a very

warm welcome to Zach Conway.

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Zach is a CEO at Seeds.

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Zach, thank you so much

for coming on the podcast.

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It's an honor to have you.

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I'm really excited

about this conversation.

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It's gonna be a fun one.

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Can you please tell us a little

bit more about yourself and Seeds?

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Zach Conway CEO Seeds:

For sure.

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Thank you for having me.

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By the way, industry expert

and star all in that intro,

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so my ego super boost there.

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I appreciate that.

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It's very nice.

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So yeah, a little bit about me.

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We were just talking about

before we started recording.

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I I'm a dad.

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I have three daughters.

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A lot going on in our lives, raising an

eight, five, and almost three-year-old.

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W- the time we're recording right

now, summer has just started for us

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sports activities driving around.

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It's fun.

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It's exhausting, but but amazing.

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So that's a big part of my life.

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The other part is I'm a

financial advisor by background.

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As you said, I'm the founder and

the CEO of a company called Seeds.

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And you can think of our platform as

something that hopefully is enabling

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advisors to s- meet the expectations

you started to allude to of investors,

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both in the experience of investing.

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So how does that happen, and how does

an advisor interact with an end client

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around the process of investing?

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And the other layer being

the operational layer.

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How does an advisor spend less

time doing sort of the mechanical

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parts of portfolio operations?

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So things like trading, tax loss

harvesting, tax transitions,

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cash management, rebalancing,

et cetera, et cetera.

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A platform that's trying to help

advisors solve both of those components.

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Ryan: Zach, an honor to have you on

based on everything you have going on.

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Y- your daughters and running

a successful business.

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I'm sure taking 30, 40 minutes

out of your schedule is not easy.

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So it's an honor and it's fun.

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All those sports, all those activities,

but nice to have some downtime too.

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Zach: Yeah, one day.

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Ryan: Yeah, exactly.

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I always like these, startups, or

not even startups, but founders like

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yourself and CEOs like yourself.

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I always like to ask the

question, why did you start Seeds?

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W- what was it when you

were like, "You know what?

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There is a gap in this industry.

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There's a hole.

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We can fill this."

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What was it and why did you start

Seeds, and what hole were you trying,

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what gap were you trying to fill?

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Zach: Yeah, I didn't start in

this industry, but grew up in it.

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My dad has been an advisor

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the, as an independent firm.

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And I ended up joining him for a bunch

of reasons a little over a decade ago.

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And, growing up and then very early in the

business with him, it was very clear to

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me that the reason people liked being his

client and the value that they got out of

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that experience had everything to do with

his ability to deeply understand them and

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ask the right questions and understand

the nuances of their lives, and then match

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that understanding to logical solutions

that reflected that understanding.

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So to be specific, all the sort of nuances

of family dynamics and challenges and

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hopes, dreams, aspirations, what would be

the best sort of personalized financial

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planning components to reflect that?

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And people s- really deeply

value that connection, right?

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Not just the connection of having

that deep human conversation,

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but that connected dot of, again,

that understanding therefore

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equals this logical outcome.

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And the thing that was jarring to me

in that context was how investment

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management, specifically within

financial planning, within that

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experience, lacked that connectedness.

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And it seemed so both surface level and

centered on the advisor's narrative rather

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than the client-cent- centric narrative.

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And to be specific there, rather than a

deeper understanding of who someone was

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as an investor, it was, "Let us start with

our talk track and sales pitch about how

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smart we are when it comes to investing

and the products we use and the expertise

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we have and our, credentials and so on."

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So as fresh eyes in the business,

that seemed strange to me.

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And I actually spent some time trying to

understand how we got here as an industry.

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How my dad, who knows intuitively

that's not what people value, how of

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all people is he, y- in that paradigm?

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What is this paradigm?

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And I won't go too far down the

rabbit hole on this, but there is a

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lot that got us to that point, right?

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In the history of the industry and

stark-- starting out as essentially

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stockbrokers and this evolution of

holistic financial planning and so on.

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But it's embedded in our DNA that's how

we frame investment management to people

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and the experience that comes with it.

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So that was part one.

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Part two was the fact that the

experience from my seat with the

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client around investing was not

good, and they didn't value it.

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But simultaneously, the way we

were bringing portfolios to life

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operationally was just a clunky nightmare.

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The fact that we had these disparate

investment product solutions, third-party

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managers, home office models, third-party

models, access to these SMEs through

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this email back-and-forth process and,

then needing to build a portfolio for

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that client and pull all these things

together, and then put a proposal

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together, and then do the proposal And

then to actually press go was, again, all

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these different sort of operational pipes

of we're emailing these people to trade

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this part, this account in a household,

and we're emailing these people to trade

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this one, and then our team's trading

the other one, and just seems bizarre.

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And all the recurring work.

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So how do you raise cash?

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How do you make sure you

rebalance the right way?

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Tax loss harvest the right

way, all these components.

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So anyway, being fresh eyes in

the business to-- it just seemed

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so paradoxical that both the

experience and the operational

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components were so not good.

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And then, next step, looking across the

industry are, has anyone solved this?

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Has anyone fundamentally solved this?

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And I spent a lot of time there 'cause,

who wants to start a company from zero

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if it already exists, and I could solve

our problems in the advisory business?

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And it didn't seem like it did.

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The technology available to us at the time

was, as I always joke, it's e-everything

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like 1990 Excel experiences and kept

things clunky and didn't help with

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that experience layer at the same time.

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Walked into my dad's office one day

and said, "Unfortunately, we we're

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starting another separate company, and

this is what that's gonna be and why,"

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and, then I guess the rest is history.

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Ryan: That's awesome, Zach.

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I love that story.

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First of all, dad was ahead of

his time from when he started,

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because when I started, Zach, 20

years ago, you were exactly right.

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It was stockbrokers.

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You're selling…

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It was so much more transactional than it

is today, and it wasn't about, the values,

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what the client believes and knowing.

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It was just like, let's, sell these

stocks, get the best return, sh- hope

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for them to be 10 baggers

and we're off and running.

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Now it's completely different, and so

your dad was way ahead of his time, really

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trying to understand the client more

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Zach: Yeah.

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Ryan: alignment.

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Zach: And

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Ryan: to him.

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That's awesome

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Zach: a great point.

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It's a great point, and even they

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this, this business was started, and

because it was meant to be a holistic

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financial planning business, right?

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The sort of leading edge of the value

prop was, "We're gonna do this holistic

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planning," and at that point in the

industry, that was not a mainstream idea.

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So to try to go to a prospect and say,

"We're gonna deliver this sort of holistic

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advice, and this is what you're gonna get

out of it, and these are the benefits,"

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the consumer at the time was like, "Huh?

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What does that mean?"

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What is the point of that?"

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Even though the industry started well

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articulating that to the customer

base was just never, wasn't there yet.

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And so there was this sort of

lean back into, "Here's a mutual

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fund company lineup that…"

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And now let's just start pitching why

these products are special and what

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return they might get, and then okay,

then we'll get them in the door, and

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then we'll do the financial planning.

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But that's the hook, and that's

my point on like the DNA.

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It's the ship in the ocean.

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You start with that paradigm,

and I think that's existed You

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know, it's improved, but that's

ex- existed, since the beginning.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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I completely agree, Zach.

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And I'm glad you brought up SMAs.

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We're gonna talk, about the expectations

of investors and that gap that you

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and your team at Seeds, you're trying

to fill there or you are filling.

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SMAs, like you said, with Zephyr,

we had a PSN separately managed

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account database, and there's a lot

of complexities that go there, right?

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And, there's growth within the

direct indexing space and then

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also within, the UMAs to try

and maybe bring it all together.

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So huge gap there.

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I'm glad you guys are there to

fill it, to try and streamline it,

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like you said, because financial

advisors, they see the benefits of

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SMAs, just the operational side is

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Zach: Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think when you and I were talking last

week the the SpaceX employee example

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had popped up, and we were unpacking.

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It, it's such a, I think, good example of

where this is all headed, where you have

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these employees that are about to have

this very significant monetary event and

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they're gonna have a lot of concentrated

stock in a particular company called

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SpaceX, and they're unionizing to go

look for financial advisors or maybe one

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firm in particular where they can, have

reduced cost as competitive pricing.

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And but it's this moment of, what do

they expect both in the experience

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and in the actual specific investment

solutions that they'll have access to?

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So in their case, things like direct

indexing, other lending opportunities,

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different components of what they'll

need to solve their specific problems.

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Some of them in their Reddit and

Slack channels talking about being

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able to screen companies in and

out from a values perspective.

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So the idea…

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I think the takeaway for advisors

with that is, if your menu of

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investment solutions historically

is these four sort of ETF-based risk

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models, and the menu is therefore

the story, is just breaking, right?

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You need to have access to

these different solutions to

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meet these rising expectations.

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But you also, as you just pointed out, you

need the operational platform to, to bring

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them to life, because you can have access

to things and to use the sort of, on your

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UMA point, direct indexing to be specific.

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If you open a direct indexing account

for taxable money for a SpaceX employee,

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but then y- the rest of the allocation

is not direct indexing equities, maybe

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there's fixed income exposure or whatever

else in the taxable money, and you're

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opening a separate account to actually

bring that, part of the asset allocation

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into the portfolio now you have two

accounts that shouldn't be two accounts.

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They should be one account.

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And so there's these, layers of the

onion in meeting these new expectations,

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both in, what are the investment

solutions, but how are they unified?

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And then how can you deliver them

in a scalable way at the same time?

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Ryan: That, I'm so glad you brought that

up and expectations because, you brought

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up such a really great example in SpaceX.

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And there's other clients out there,

the older generation, they're looking

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at potentially a, a monetary windfall

too of selling businesses, selling out.

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They might be liquidating something.

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They're looking at this windfall also.

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there other expectations or examples

investors in how it's changed

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over the years from, let's say,

when your dad started to today?

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And what are those expectations,

outside of maybe SpaceX, maybe the

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younger generation of investors?

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Zach: Yeah, I think the thing

that stands out more, most broadly

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is the experience piece, right?

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Trying to have a 30-something-year-old

person walk into your office and get

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pitched on why you're such a smart money

manager and what your menu of product

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solutions is, and to talk about those

products and put up a static proposal

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that everyone else gets effectively the

same thing, just levered up and down

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for maybe risk tolerance as the singular

input of understanding is not how we

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experience anything else in our lives

in, in our generation from a, from an

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actual experience perspective, right?

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The experience is good because it's

shaped around us and what our needs

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are and how we think and how we want to

be- live the experience, whatever that

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experience is, including around investing.

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So the expectation shift is

that, is just that, right?

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I expect to walk into the room and for

this person to deeply understand me,

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not just in the, what advisors have,

again, always been good at, which is

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deep discovery for the purposes typically

of other financial planning components,

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but around this investing part.

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And by the way, quick aside, I think we

also struggle as an industry with this

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idea of the value proposition around

investing is either I'm gonna beat the

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market Or you have this other cohort

that says it's actually so commoditized

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that we might as well let clients just

do it themselves and do whatever they're

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gonna do, and then we'll try to do the

financial planning elements, around it.

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And I think both of those ideas

are, I'll just say faulty, and so

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there, there is, It's an important

component of financial planning.

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It's also an expectation of the

customer that's what an advisor

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is going to be doing, right?

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It's a table stakes component.

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And so we need to be effective at it from

a, from an actual management standpoint.

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But again it's the experience piece.

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How do you shift to, "I'm gonna deeply

understand this person from a goals

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perspective, from a tax perspective, from

a concentrated stock position perspective

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as it relates to their personal values"?

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I think it is such a good sort of

tangible example that it isn't table

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stakes for us as advisors to understand

s- someone's motivation around their

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values about what they're actually gonna

own in their portfolio, and the fact that

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we've just obscured that as an industry

i- is, to me, bizarre, where our whole

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philosophy is, making sure we're doing

what's in the best interest of clients.

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But again, all those layers, values,

thematic interests, how do they think

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about the market, and what do they care

to be invested in or not invested in?

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How involved in the process

do they even wanna be?

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Do they want deep metrics of every

component of how you're building the

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portfolio, or they wanna keep it high

level and focus on how this allocation

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is driving to their short and long-term

goals and everything in between.

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So any- anyway, that deep understanding

is the expectation, so that, that

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experience is driven by that.

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Ryan: Yeah, that's ex- right,

Zach, and it's interesting.

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You talked about earlier, too,

the wealth management space,

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I feel as if we're very slow.

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We're getting better with

with AI, but very slow in

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adapting the technology, right?

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A lot of other industries use

technology, adapt, innovate much quicker

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than the wealth management space.

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We're doing better at that, but I

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do feel that we're taking things, like

you said, client experience from other

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industries and how important the client

experience is in other industries, and

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we're realizing that now over the years.

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You w- like you said, you think this

would've been front and center 20

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years ago, but now it really has

taken off, enhancing that client

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experience and how important it is.

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'Cause like you said, it's not just

pitching a mutual fund to the same

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client or the same model portfolio to

the same clie- all your book of business.

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It's that client experience,

transparency, customization,

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personalization, you name it.

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We can go on and on.

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But, like you said,

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Zach: Yeah

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Ryan: it's fiduciaries, right?

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We're supposed to be doing this, so

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Zach: It the SpaceX employee example,

I think what is very exciting and

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hopeful about how, what they're

doing is if, it's obvious, but

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they're looking for a human, right?

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They're looking for a human advisor.

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So that's really good news, right?

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The fact that we're still in the running

as the human people, and I, we are very

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much in the camp that will persist for

all the reasons we talk about where

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we-- people want the human interface.

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They want that connection.

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They want the deep understanding

to be through the eyes of,

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literal eyes of a human person.

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Again, maybe that changes

in this last mile of AI.

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We'll see.

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But for now, that is a really hopeful

thing that's how they're looking

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to solve their financial needs.

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On the other hand, to your point,

there are apps where they can go

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open direct indexing portfolios

in a seamless, beautiful digital

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interface with pretty solid support,

probably some AI chat components

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to help answer questions and so on.

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And so that is really the gap

that, Seeds is trying to solve.

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But I think as an industry, our

technology, the B2B technology to support

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advisors is so dramatically behind what

direct-to-consumer technology has been

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able to deliver to the market that i-if

we don't chase that really quickly to

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support the human advisor so that they

can do both, be the human advisor, but

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in, with the support of really compelling,

helpful technology, that feels scary.

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Because at some point, there will be,

in theory, a trade-off decision where

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if that d- direct-to-consumer version

is so much more compelling than even

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the fact that I get the human interface

over here, when do you say, "Screw it,

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I'm just gonna go log into the app"?

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And that is the, th- that's why, I wake

up in the middle of the night sometimes

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thinking about as an industry, how do

we chase that as, quickly as possible?

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Because again, humans want the human.

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They just need to have the right

stuff behind the scenes helping them.

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Ryan: I love that you brought that

up, that I completely agree that,

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investors, they want that human touch.

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But if advisor, that human, isn't

providing them what they can get

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or more than what, exceed those

expectations that they can get t- from

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that business to bus- business con-

to-consumer app then you're in trouble.

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What how can advisors meet

these new expectations?

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Might be the million-dollar

question here, but you just

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talked about how important it is.

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How can they meet these new expectations?

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Zach: I think important underlying point

is It is so hard to get all of this right.

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We talk to advisors all day, every day,

and I don't think we give, in general,

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give advisors but really give ourselves

in the industry enough credit for how

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hard it is to f- figure out all the puzzle

pieces and then put the puzzle together.

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So what I mean by that is, if you're

independent, you're a business owner,

346

and that alone of what that means in

figuring out hiring and how to organize

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your team and just function as a business.

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You're a practitioner, right?

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You need to know how to do financial

planning and the underlying components

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or hire people who can fill those needs.

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You need some pretty decent level of

a skill set on the EQ side, right?

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Being that human interface that

people deeply value and a big part

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of why they're gonna walk in and

be your customer as opposed to the

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direct-to-consumer app is that.

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So you have to get all of that and you

need to figure out what technology is

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going to help support all of these things.

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So I think that's why there's

no room for error here, right?

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The helping advisors

across all of those areas.

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Now Seeds, this is not to say Seeds

solves all of those pieces, but it

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is a lot of what we talk about, and I

think what we need to be talking about

361

as an industry, is all of that does

need to be right and how they deliver

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that experience to the customer.

363

So it's all of the above,

to answer your question.

364

There, there's a lot to to figure out.

365

And I think in gen…

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The only other thing I'll say is I wish

there was more of a drumbeat on those

367

points broadly as an industry, and

then also specifically around, we're

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biased but focused on this investment

management part of calling out where

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the standard is not being met and where

expectations are not being met because

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the other side of the coin is that the

reputational risk, those SpaceX employees

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were really lucky and anyone like them

that they're still saying, number one,

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human advi- human person, but this

concept of a financial advisor that in

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general has not had a great reputation,

especially among younger demographics.

374

And so I think that needs to be

a bigger focus for the industry.

375

I, I was at a conference recently

listening to an advisor explain

376

to me how he builds a port-- every

portfolio for every client is one

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stock position because he has such

conviction in this one particular stock.

378

That can't fly.

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We can't let that continue, right?

380

Because that little drop in the ocean,

that is so damaging to, what we're

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trying to do as an industry and make

sure we can be relevant and have those

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types of customers wanna pick us.

383

So anyway, that's my very long answer.

384

I think, calling out where things

are not meeting the standard is

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a big part of what we need to do

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Ryan: Yeah, it, think that's perfect.

387

I'm shocked that you just were

at a conference and you heard

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that from a financial advisor.

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That's interesting.

390

Not much diversification

there, Not much diversification

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Zach: And think about it, it's not

even like w-what is the standard?

392

Step one is, as an advisor within

investment management, are you

393

building at least fundamentally

client-driven portfolios, right?

394

This is a portfolio that makes sense

given this particular person's situation.

395

In that example, w- again, real-life

example, I'm not gonna say who it

396

was, but real-life conversation

in a major industry conferen-

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conference that has nothing to do…

398

That portfolio has nothing

to do with the client.

399

It's literally he, he's like a

single stock hedge fund manager

400

with a financial advisor badge on.

401

It's terrifying.

402

But that's what I mean, like there's no…

403

I don't think we do enough in s-

in calling out when the standard

404

is so being missed, and I think

we need to more as an industry.

405

So that's my rant.

406

Ryan: No, I love that rant.

407

I think it's very important.

408

I think more people should

probably rant about it to get

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that message out there too.

410

And I think is interesting too with AI

and all this technology, and like you

411

said, direct to consumer stuff, it's gonna

put a bigger emphasis on relationship

412

building, which is a good thing.

413

Building strong relationships with

your clients, with other investors,

414

because that's what, AI and these

tools don't have empathy, right?

415

A human

416

has empathy.

417

So I think that's a good thing.

418

I think, getting back to relationships

and how important it is important.

419

Do you remember robo-advisors?

420

It wasn't that long ago, Zach, everyone

was worried about robo-advisors.

421

Where are they today, right?

422

Because want that human touch.

423

What do you

424

Zach: Yeah

425

Ryan: financial advisor looks like

today compared to 20 years ago?

426

Where there.

427

What is it that makes a

financial advisor good?

428

Zach: Yeah, I think it's all those, again,

on the point of it's really hard to be.

429

There's so many different

pieces of of the puzzle.

430

You need to be a good practitioner,

and you need to know your stuff from

431

a financial planning perspective,

and you need to know how to run

432

a business, and you need to know

how to deliver an experience that

433

the customer's gonna value, and

that's built around who they are.

434

Because again, like we talked about,

that is the clear expectation of we say

435

younger investors, but I think even,

existing customers that are waking up

436

to the fact that a lot more of this

should be more shaped around them.

437

The thing on AI an interesting thing

that we've been talking a lot about

438

is to, to your point about people

want that human experience they want

439

it to be personalized around them.

440

Obviously, AI should be the

thing behind the scenes that's

441

supporting the advisor do that.

442

So as we think about, how we think

about it at Seeds, how can you support

443

an advisor gathering more information

about this human person in a deeper, more

444

three-dimensional way rather than I'm just

gonna ask their risk tolerance and then

445

match them to one of four fixed models.

446

What else could I understand about them?

447

Therefore, what else-- what would that

connect to in a more comprehensive

448

lineup of investment solutions that

most effectively match all of that?

449

And then how do I talk about it?

450

How do I specifically talk about it

in a way that's gonna a- resonate

451

with that real person based on all the

things I just understood about them?

452

And then how am I gonna

talk about it forever?

453

Review meetings, in between review

meetings, how am I engaging this person?

454

And I-- One other quick aside is

part of the reason I think advisors,

455

again, they intuitively know

that this is the right approach.

456

The problem has been if I ask more

questions, I therefore have to deal

457

with the answers to the questions.

458

How do I…

459

if someone cares about values,

okay, now I have to go figure

460

out how to screen portfolios.

461

I don't have a mechanism for that.

462

I have to go find a new solution

there, and then I've got separate

463

accounts, and all of a sudden,

operationally, everything falls apart.

464

So you need this connected chain.

465

But the point on AI is I do think

there's this threshold Where we need

466

to be careful how much the advisor is

ultimately in this new paradigm relying

467

on AI to essentially help them remember

in the moment who these human people

468

are that they're interacting with.

469

So in other words, the more you become

reliant on, "Here's my write-up of

470

the Smiths and what we talked about

last week and what I should talk about

471

now," your brain is not sifting through

that information and reconnecting

472

dots and remembering the nuance of

the conversation about the, their dog

473

died and they, had this vacation and

what that meant to them and whatever.

474

You see it in the writing, and you

can read the writing, and maybe that's

475

helping you do the conversation in

the room next time, but you're also

476

depleting the muscle, liter- the human

brain of connecting those dots back

477

from that actual human conversation

you had two months ago or whatever.

478

So anyway, I don't even know if that was

even in the realm of an answer to what

479

your last question was, but AI supporting

advisors to be more human, to create

480

these deeper experiences, but now there's

this new threat of even if that's how

481

you're using AI, we have to be careful

of not getting to this sort of point of

482

over-reliance where we lose the sort of

our human abilities, if that makes sense.

483

Ryan: Zack back to, and I agree

with leveraging AI too much.

484

I don't know what the word is for

it, but it, it can decrease the

485

knowledge of the user, the human.

486

I go back to, I very

rarely write anything.

487

I don't even have a pen on my desk.

488

But when I have to write something,

my handwriting is absolutely terrible

489

'cause everything I do is typing.

490

It's almost the same with math too

because I rely on a calculator,

491

Excel, whatever so much.

492

It's like my skills have

decreased in a lot of those.

493

back to kids, doing,

helping with their homework.

494

It's

495

Zach: it's impossible.

496

Yeah

497

Ryan: on it so much.

498

Everything you've learned from years

499

Zach: Yeah.

500

Ryan: it handwriting it's

501

Zach: yeah.

502

It i- it's a scary, it's a scary feeling

where, okay, I'm going into a meeting,

503

and listen, this is what we're building

toward, but we are trying to figure out

504

this balance and how to shape it exactly.

505

Because, if you, if Seeds produces,

here's the literal script of what

506

to say given all of this context and

all this information from 10 years,

507

and here's what's happened in the

portfolio, and here's what they ta-

508

here's what we talked about last time,

here's their top concerns, whatever.

509

Here's the script.

510

Here are the words to say.

511

Obviously, that's compelling as just

an idea, but the second your brain's

512

"Okay, I'm gonna go into this meeting

and I track these bullet points 'cause

513

I'm already thinking about the next

meeting and the next meeting and the

514

next meeting," and you're not connecting,

is the irony that could could happen.

515

By the way, my daughter asked me, I

guess they're teaching cursive again.

516

I think they stopped and now they're back,

or at least in where we are in New Jersey.

517

My daughter asked me to write her

name in cursive and my brain exploded.

518

I actually did it, but it

was, did not look great

519

Ryan: Y- thankfully my son

has not come up with that yet.

520

He's come up with a lot of questions.

521

Thankfully, otherwise

522

Zach: Yeah.

523

Ryan: like "I

524

Zach: Yeah.

525

Ryan: to tell you.

526

This one I

527

Zach: Yeah,

528

Ryan: with

529

Zach: the math I'm essentially useless

even with my second grader this year.

530

It's I don't know, you need to teach me

531

Ryan: I- it's fun.

532

It's f- it's fun until you

they're like, "But Dad, you're

533

supposed to know everything."

534

It's maybe not."

535

Zach: Yeah,

536

Ryan: So

537

Zach: did.

538

I did at one point

539

Ryan: a lot, you talked, mentioned

it earlier about expanding the

540

services or expanding the investment

management produ- products, that

541

menu, just from mutual funds, ETFs,

to, maybe private investments,

542

private equity, offering Bitcoin.

543

You gotta be able to offer Bitcoin

whether you like it or not, Bitcoin,

544

private markets, real estate, to really

separate yourself from maybe the direct

545

to consumer or other financial advisors.

546

But the key is how can financial

advisors do that at scale when

547

you've got so many more products?

548

It's a lot easier th- just

to enter in a couple tickers

549

Zach: Yeah.

550

It's just making a note for

myself 'cause I think there's a

551

couple levels to it to clarify.

552

The first is I'm not saying,

you need access to literally any

553

investment solution that's ever

existed on planet Earth, right?

554

That it's not that.

555

A- and I'll actually come back to that.

556

The other point is client demographics.

557

I understand the point that, hey,

I don't work with SpaceX employees.

558

I work with these types of clients, and

their needs are maybe simpler, and my

559

menu is therefore a bit more constrained.

560

So I get that is-- can be part

of the the structure or the

561

reason behind what your menu is.

562

But on the products themselves, I think

if you are trying to solve, let's say

563

the most common use cases of general

demographics of younger investors,

564

retirees, whatever combination, there's

a reasonable set of stuff that will

565

come up or should come up, and those

things-- and there are things that have

566

reasonable reasons to exist, right?

567

Obviously, there's extreme random

silly stuff that shouldn't and just

568

exists because it's a product to sell.

569

So I do think of, use direct

indexing as an example.

570

There is a legitimate rationale, multiple

legitimate rationales for its use

571

Alternatives, same thing in the context

of, how to think about asset allocation.

572

The big change though is not just, hey,

how do you have access to these things?

573

It's how do you know when

to use them specifically?

574

And I think that is what is broken

in our process, and it goes back

575

to the point about the inverted

storytelling where you start with,

576

let's go, use the alts example.

577

I have access to these, five products

because someone took our firm out to a

578

state dinner and th- this is the lineup

of investment solutions within alts.

579

And if someone with a pulse walks in the

door, I'm putting up a the PDF, nicely

580

branded PDF, and walking through why

they should put this in their portfolio.

581

You can apply the same

point to direct indexing.

582

Here's a person with a pulse

who ha- has a taxable account.

583

Long-short is another one,

that's exploded in the industry.

584

Again, this isn't to say that these

things don't have their place.

585

They absolutely do.

586

But if every person is a nail, right?

587

Hammer, nail?

588

Yeah, I think I got it right.

589

And so you're starting with the product

story rather than who is this person?

590

What are their needs?

591

What are they interested in?

592

And therefore, here's what

should come out the other side.

593

So the products, you still have

the products, you still have the

594

solutions, but do you actually have

a framework for who gets it and when

595

and why, and how to talk about it?

596

And then the operational piece you touched

on, how do I make it how does it then

597

get put into client accounts in a way

that, from a trading perspective and

598

operationally is even vaguely scalable?

599

Ryan: Yeah, Zach.

600

It, with the alternatives, it feels if

we, I've done a lot of re- everyone's done

601

research in the benefits of alternatives.

602

That, that's very well known.

603

The efficient frontier, it

moves the efficient frontier

604

to the, northwest corner.

605

It's what you want,

higher return, lower risk.

606

Fantastic.

607

Everyone knows that.

608

But as we're finding out now with private

credit, the investment is great in

609

the right hands, but it can be really

bad in the wrong hands for the wrong

610

investor and that misalignment with

liquidity and the liquidity risks there.

611

So you're exactly right.

612

It's not saying it's a bad investment,

but if it's align- misaligned, it can

613

be a bad investment and not work out for

anyone that walks in, even though it can

614

help them in portfolio diversification.

615

Spot on.

616

Zach: It,

617

Ryan: quickly,

618

Zach: it go…

619

Ryan: You

620

Zach: sorry, go ahead

621

Ryan: it earlier about

the threat to advisors.

622

A lot of advisors in this space

think AI is the biggest threat.

623

Do you think that's the biggest threat?

624

Zach: No.

625

I would say, th-this is I'll try to

caveat this the right way, but I would

626

say that from the points earlier, I think

we are, I think our, we ourselves as an

627

industry are our biggest threat for some

of the reasons we've been talking about.

628

The shooting ourselves in the foot

aspect of our reputational damage

629

is just very frustrating to witness.

630

Because again, it goes back to the

point, we have to get so much right to be

631

effective and to attract new consumers.

632

And so any of this stuff, my example of

the guy with the single stock portfolio,

633

alts and sort of product selling it's

634

is product, a product selling paradigm.

635

So to pick on the alts example, if

as a firm you can't articulate like

636

that efficient frontier point, if

you as a firm don't have even that,

637

and when you say alternatives, what

do you even mean by alternatives?

638

Do you mean private credit?

639

Do you mean private equity?

640

What combination within private equity?

641

What stages of company?

642

There are layers to this and if a firm is

just saying, again, we have a thing that

643

'cause a guy knows so and so now it's

going in everybody's portfolio, the indus-

644

the consumer has sniffed this out, right?

645

This is not news to consumers and

it is just such a bummer because

646

we're doing it to ourselves, right?

647

If, but if you can articulate a

framework, we've built it this way, it

648

fits into portfolios in the efficient

frontier for asset allocation purposes

649

for these reasons, and the framework of

these types of clients in these types

650

of situations with these specific tax

inputs and their goals get it, and

651

I can articulate why That's great.

652

That's golden.

653

That's the whole thing, right?

654

But any version that isn't that, and

again like we talked about, you can

655

apply that to any product I think is

more damaging than we realize, right?

656

I think it is a major thing

that, a SpaceX employee looks

657

at and rolls their eyes, right?

658

And we just have accepted

as, a thing we do sometimes.

659

So yeah I think we have a lot of

empathy for advisors and that's why

660

we're doing what we're doing in trying

to support really good advisors.

661

But as much as everybody's hand-wringing

around AI and the threat of direct

662

to consumer, I think there's a little

bit of hey, we need to really look

663

in the mirror and that start there.

664

It's not to say AI is not a threat, it's

just an order of operations thing, right?

665

If we don't solve this internally,

the AI thing is a moot point, right?

666

That we need to deal with

that next, is the point.

667

Ryan: Yeah, and AI, I do think, one of

the benefits or the many benefits is it's

668

forcing j- everyone, financial advisors

to level up their game, be better.

669

So I think that's a good thing.

670

Lastly, Zach, fantastic conversation.

671

Talked about a lot.

672

Real quick, how does Seeds

help address these challenges

673

advisors face today and add value?

674

Zach: Yeah.

675

So bookending to the two

layers of the experience around

676

investing and the operational

pieces of investment management.

677

On the experience piece,

advisors log into our system.

678

We help them gather more complete

information about investors.

679

That information can logically connect

to portfolio outcomes and the underlying

680

investment solutions that best reflect

that human person from that human

681

conversation segues to proposal tools.

682

So you're in the same system

to say, "I understand you.

683

Here's the portfolio

that is right for you.

684

I can show it to you."

685

And then the operational piece,

enabling advisors in the system to

686

essentially press go, and then seeds

us automating the implementation.

687

So what I mean by that is here's, let's

say a UMA and a taxable account for

688

the Smiths with direct indexing within

equities and this fixed income ETF-based

689

model in the same account, and they

have IRAs, and here's the household

690

level allocation, and then press go, and

we are implementing all of those sort

691

of building blocks inside of the UMA

structure, and then automating all the

692

trading that would then happen thereafter.

693

So back to the expectations point,

if you're doing tax loss harvesting,

694

for example, once a year manually,

that's not, it's interesting doing

695

tax loss harvesting in a systematic

way in separate accounts was maybe

696

even a couple of years ago thought as

this specialized ad-advanced thing.

697

Now the table stakes thing is that tax

loss harvesting needs to be systematic

698

across all taxable money, essentially.

699

That's what, the consumer knows

that's a thing that they can access.

700

So tax loss harvesting, automated

rebalancing, cash management and so on.

701

And lifting advisors out of

those weeds so they can go do

702

the human stuff with the client.

703

Ryan: Awesome, Zach.

704

Great conversation.

705

A lot of fun.

706

Great insight that our

audience will take a lot from.

707

I know I did.

708

I'll go back, watch it again

just to take it all in.

709

Great stuff.

710

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

711

It's been an honor.

712

Where can our audience get

more information about Seeds?

713

Zach: Find me on LinkedIn.

714

Always happy to connect with

advisors and chat one-on-one.

715

And our website is www.useseeds.com,

716

so come check it out

717

Ryan: I love it.

718

Thank you, and thank you everyone

for listening to this episode of

719

Zephyr's Adjusted for Risk podcast.

720

You can watch all of our other episodes

on the Zephyr YouTube channel and Spotify

721

and wherever else you catch your podcasts.

722

Also, be sure to like and

subscribe to those channels and

723

give us a follow on LinkedIn.

724

Thank you very much and have

a great rest of your week