Shownotes
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Description
Alicia Freeman shares her experiences with fostering and adopting children and the impact on her faith. Throughout the episode, hosts Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs dive into the messy, beautiful reality of caring for vulnerable children and the theological insights gained through suffering. Alicia discusses the personal challenges and triggers brought on by the children's behaviors, reflecting on how these experiences have strengthened her marriage and community relationships. Emphasizing the importance of surrendering to God's plan, Alicia, together with the hosts, explores the theme of finding hope and joy amidst crises, emphasizing the role of faithfulness and community support. This episode not only highlights the difficulties faced by those on similar journeys but also the transformative power of embracing imperfection and relying on spiritual and communal strength.
Time Stamps
[04:51] Navigating difficult comments
[08:44] Unexpected triggers from helping traumatized children accumulate.
[12:25] Struggle with faith leads to profound realization.
[16:42] Finding hope and growth in hardship and pain.
[20:22] Grateful for encouragement and learning humility.
[21:14] Find joy in not having to do it all.
[26:03] Learning to abide in God through faith.
[31:02] Thankful for God's gift of community support.
[37:18] Passion for trauma care and learning journey.
[38:26] Finding hope through faith and neuroscience training.
[41:38] Churches find empowerment, tools, and healing progress.
Other Links
Reach out to us! https://journeywithcare.ca/podcast
Email: podcast@careimpact.ca
CareImpact: careimpact.ca
About the CarePortal: careimpact.ca/careportal
DONATE! Help connect and equip more churches across Canada to effectively journey well in community with children and families: careimpact.ca/donate
Editing and production by Johan Heinrichs: arkpodcasts.ca
Mentioned in this episode:
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https://careimpactchristmas.com
Transcripts
As a mom of 6 kids and the huge age range that we have,
Speaker:I feel pulled in so many different directions on
Speaker:any given day. I I feel like I'm always letting somebody down, you
Speaker:know? I feel like there's never quite enough of me to go around to everyone
Speaker:everywhere, and especially when you start adding some special needs
Speaker:and exceptionalities in there that just take some extra time and attention, and
Speaker:I wish that I had more to offer
Speaker:them. What does loving your neighbor actually look like?
Speaker:This is Journey with Care, where curious Canadians get
Speaker:inspired to love others well through real life stories and
Speaker:honest conversations.
Speaker:Welcome journey with care listeners. We've had several weeks
Speaker:of some Jeopardy, getting to know Wendy and I a little bit, and
Speaker:then we've been on the road to Kansas City. You heard all about that.
Speaker:And finally, we're getting back to the stories. We know
Speaker:you're here for the stories, the real stories, the honest
Speaker:stories, and today is not gonna disappoint. We
Speaker:have one of our associates on, Alicia. Well, I'm just so
Speaker:excited. We have Alicia Freeman from Parry Sound,
Speaker:Ontario. She is part of the Care Impact team, and, she
Speaker:can share a little bit herself. But, Alicia, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker:Thank you so much. I'm really honored and really excited to be here with
Speaker:both of you. This is a first for me. So, Alicia, you wanna maybe introduce
Speaker:yourself to our listeners, maybe tell us a little bit about your family?
Speaker:I would love to do that. So I'm married to my best friend
Speaker:and partner in crime for 14 years now, Kirby. We
Speaker:were high school sweethearts, fell in love, got married very early
Speaker:on, and began our family very early on. God really placed it
Speaker:on our hearts to pursue adoption and foster care.
Speaker:So, we have 6 beautiful kids. Our oldest three
Speaker:children are adoptive children, so they've come just through adoption
Speaker:and foster care. And our youngest three children are biological,
Speaker:And they range in ages from 12 months to 17 years,
Speaker:so we kinda have the whole gamut going on there. Wow. That's a that's
Speaker:a large span there as a mom. And I look at you.
Speaker:You look so young to to be parenting 6
Speaker:children, and, you and your husband have been called
Speaker:into fostering adoption since you got married. Is that
Speaker:correct? Yeah. So I was one of those people who just
Speaker:I honestly can't remember a time when I didn't anticipate
Speaker:foster care and adoption being a part of my story. So God just
Speaker:he placed some people very intentionally within my sphere as a
Speaker:child already who really impacted me and moved me in that
Speaker:direction. Married. It it took him
Speaker:some time, but he he
Speaker:got there married. It it took him some time, but he he got there, and
Speaker:he is absolutely fully in. So it sounds like you guys
Speaker:have kinda jumped right into this fairly early on in your
Speaker:marriage. So what inspired you guys to foster and adopt?
Speaker:That's a good question. I think that, like I mentioned, like, there
Speaker:were people within that God really placed specifically and intentionally
Speaker:in my sphere of influence, who I observed
Speaker:as they brought children into their home through adoption and foster
Speaker:care. And God just used those stories to
Speaker:really impact me and my growing heart and full disclosure.
Speaker:I jumped in as, you know, a hardcore savior mentalist.
Speaker:So the past 2 decades now, God has spent just
Speaker:chipping away at that savior mentality that I first arrived
Speaker:with. But my husband and I always say, you know, it was that naivety
Speaker:and that enthusiasm that god used to bring us to the place where he
Speaker:wanted us. And then he was like, okay. I've got you here now. I've got
Speaker:a lot of work to do. Well, thank you for your honesty and
Speaker:vulnerability in that because I think that many people could
Speaker:with that, and we see vulnerable children and those needing homes, and
Speaker:and it's easy to fall into that. Like, hey. Let's just swoop in and
Speaker:and rescue the children. Maybe we can make a better future.
Speaker:And and there's there's a lot of good intentions in all of that,
Speaker:but I think life taking in children, even
Speaker:speaking from experience, life going through that journey has a way
Speaker:of dethroning us. Right? Humbling us as parents.
Speaker:And do you get a lot of people asking you, wow. Good for
Speaker:you. I could never do that. You are just like a superwoman
Speaker:kind of mentality. Do you get some of that feedback where it's like, I could
Speaker:never do that. I love my children too much, and I would get it too
Speaker:attached with fostering? Yes.
Speaker:So much of the time. And that's something that I've I've really
Speaker:worked on kinda trying to to script my answer to, because
Speaker:I I used to honestly just get really offended because I I felt like
Speaker:what they were saying was, like, I'm a much more loving person than you, and
Speaker:I could never possibly bring children into my home and then let them go. And
Speaker:I was like, okay. Thanks. But I know I
Speaker:know what their intentions are behind those comments, but I do really view
Speaker:those now as opportunities to, you know, just show off the glory
Speaker:of God and and show off my own weakness and just saying, like, you know,
Speaker:that was me. Like, I always said that exact same thing,
Speaker:but it's really not about me. And at the end of the day, it it
Speaker:doesn't really hinge on what I think that my capacity is. If
Speaker:God is asking me to do this, then he promises that he will be faithful
Speaker:and he will equip me with whatever it is I need in order to
Speaker:be able to do this. But, yeah, it it's really uncomfortable to be
Speaker:kind of put on a pedestal, especially when life is
Speaker:messy and hard and you know how much you're struggling in the day to day.
Speaker:You're you're like, oh my goodness. If you walk through my doors, you would you
Speaker:would not say that anymore. We still
Speaker:have dishes on our counters. Right? And you still have lots of
Speaker:appointments. And and, yes, you're not claiming to be superhuman
Speaker:in this, but you still you have one child. Hopefully, we'll hear from her yet.
Speaker:She's crawling around you there, but and 5 lunches to make where you've got
Speaker:appointments to take, social services to attend to. You've
Speaker:got a lot on the go with 6 children with complex
Speaker:stories as well. Just so our our listeners know that you
Speaker:aren't Superwoman, is there something even that maybe happened this morning
Speaker:that just can give us a little insight that you are a
Speaker:actual real human being like everyone else
Speaker:just serving the lord? Yeah. I love that. There's so many things
Speaker:that pop into my mind, but the first thing that popped into my mind because
Speaker:you specified something that happened this morning, This morning, just
Speaker:like almost every morning of my life, I was running
Speaker:late. I cannot seem to adjust my
Speaker:schedule and my margins so that I arrive on time
Speaker:anywhere. And it doesn't matter if I have all 6 of my children with
Speaker:me or one of my children with me. Just recently, I
Speaker:arrived, like, 5 minutes late to a doctor's appointment for my baby.
Speaker:She was due for immunizations, and they canceled on me. They
Speaker:wouldn't let me come in, and I was so frustrated with myself
Speaker:and so frustrated with them even though I I knew that I didn't really have
Speaker:a right to be frustrated with them. But it it was just a frustrating experience.
Speaker:So I I really don't, like, I don't enjoy being late, but I I just
Speaker:seem to have trouble, like, adjusting my life and making paying attention to my margins,
Speaker:I guess, so that I can arrive on my making
Speaker:paying attention to my margins, I guess, so that I can arrive on
Speaker:time with everybody, you know, fed and clothed and intact.
Speaker:Probably have to do, like, a deep dive on what's going on there for me.
Speaker:It probably has a lot to do with mental rest, which is something we
Speaker:talk about a lot in our trauma care, self care module.
Speaker:But, yeah, just the the mental overwhelm can be very
Speaker:real.
Speaker:So we've just had another guest join our podcast. So if you hear
Speaker:from this guest, I I don't know if they'll introduce themselves
Speaker:because I don't think they could talk. But, anyway, Wendy.
Speaker:I'd love to dive in a little bit about some of the
Speaker:challenges. The things that sometimes aren't Pinterest worthy are not
Speaker:on Instagram. It's not those cute pictures. But when you were talking about some of
Speaker:the hardship as a parent and and having to, move
Speaker:into a difficult journey through the the journeys of your children,
Speaker:are there some things that you've been surprised or challenged by when you said
Speaker:yes to caring for children in difficult places? I'm
Speaker:just curious how you have grown as a person as you you've said yes into
Speaker:these difficult spaces. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker:One of the first things that comes to my mind that I think really
Speaker:shocked me was I like I said, I I have carried
Speaker:this, passion for caring for vulnerable children for a
Speaker:very long time. And I always assumed that
Speaker:knowing their stories and knowing where they have come from and
Speaker:the traumas that they've lived through would transform
Speaker:me into an incredibly compassionate person
Speaker:who was always able to understand, you know,
Speaker:why they may be behaving in the ways that they're behaving,
Speaker:but it's turned out that's really not the case. I still struggle
Speaker:with being irritated over tiny things and getting
Speaker:frustrated when their behaviors or even emotions
Speaker:that are just really uncomfortable or
Speaker:invading my own personal space. I never would
Speaker:have anticipated that I would start accumulating so many triggers
Speaker:of my own. I remember early on in our journey
Speaker:hearing about vicarious trauma for the first time, and
Speaker:it felt very foreign and very strange to me. And
Speaker:now I know exactly what that is and exactly what that feels like
Speaker:because after you've walked alongside somebody who's
Speaker:hurting and struggling, you get a little mess on yourself.
Speaker:And I love thinking about how, when Jesus came
Speaker:to earth to rescue us, he
Speaker:came in such a human form and he came in such a
Speaker:messy and painful and human way. And he, he really
Speaker:did let our mess get all over himself.
Speaker:And, the truth is that's, that's what happens when, when
Speaker:we walk closely with people who are hurting and struggling
Speaker:is we start, we start to get messy and, and that can be
Speaker:really uncomfortable and really disillusioning
Speaker:to find yourself in a place where suddenly you're dealing with your own triggers and
Speaker:your own trauma due to caring for others.
Speaker:So that was very, very surprising and has brought a lot of challenges.
Speaker:I think that's, very profound,
Speaker:what you just stated here because I think in North America,
Speaker:regardless of the denomination, I think there's a lot
Speaker:of prosperity gospel infused in our thinking. If we follow
Speaker:God, things will get better. It's, like, almost, like, up the
Speaker:the ladder, so to speak, in euphoria of
Speaker:spiritual experience, and and yet you're right. When we come
Speaker:into proximity with pain, the places that God has called us to, it's
Speaker:not rescuing out of. It's entering into. And
Speaker:I know there's ways, and you you've been teaching this. I think it comes from
Speaker:a very authentic space in our trauma care training. You've been
Speaker:training other people in ministries and camps and in churches
Speaker:how to enter into the mess and yet not
Speaker:walk as traumatized, but work through that trauma.
Speaker:But it sometimes it evokes, at least for myself, it evokes some things that I
Speaker:didn't even know I had to deal with. But because they've triggered me in
Speaker:these areas, I need to grow in these spaces.
Speaker:But we have this prosperity gospel at play at war against these
Speaker:experiences that we're called into hardship. And one thing
Speaker:I would love to see the church expand on, and I don't know if you
Speaker:have any comments to this, but just having a a deeper theology
Speaker:of suffering, that suffering isn't inherently bad. It's
Speaker:sometimes what we're called to. Have you experienced some of
Speaker:that dissonance within your own faith
Speaker:experience and going through hardship with your family?
Speaker:Yes. Absolutely. A number of years ago, one of
Speaker:our biological children actually ended up being diagnosed with
Speaker:a brain tumor and walking with him through that journey, he was 18
Speaker:months old at the time. And I just remember that was, that was the
Speaker:first of many times in the next number of years
Speaker:that I would just have to face the question that
Speaker:was resounding in my heart, where I, I believed that God
Speaker:was good in this overarching way, but I was really
Speaker:struggling to believe that God was good to me and to my children.
Speaker:You know, God in his kindness and his graciousness made
Speaker:me face that question repeatedly over and over again
Speaker:so that I could struggle through that and come to this grounding
Speaker:realization and understanding that, yes, the answer is yes.
Speaker:He is so good to me and so good to those I
Speaker:love. But my view is very, very small
Speaker:compared to his. And so, it takes a it takes a lot
Speaker:of faith and it takes a lot of a lot of trust to
Speaker:to surrender my plans and my ideas of
Speaker:what would be good in my life or in my children's
Speaker:lives or, or those around me. And to, to kind
Speaker:of give that to God with open hands and say, you know what?
Speaker:I know that you know better than I do what is good here.
Speaker:So I'm going to surrender my ideas and give them to
Speaker:you. I think the word surrender is so powerful because that
Speaker:some of it is letting go of the control we actually never have
Speaker:had, but we had the illusion of control even if we have
Speaker:biological children. And there is no guarantees.
Speaker:There's no guarantees in anything in life, and we're not promised an easy
Speaker:life. In fact, it says, in this world, we will have troubles.
Speaker:But take heart. He's overcome the world, but there's a long suffering.
Speaker:There's a big dash in between from when we see
Speaker:the ultimate hope that is promised us so
Speaker:often in our stories. I've been thinking a lot lately
Speaker:about a little phrase I keep hearing, and that is just that
Speaker:hard is not the same as bad. And it sounds so simple, but
Speaker:it it's exactly that. It's that that prosperity
Speaker:gospel that creeps into, especially our Western mindset
Speaker:of, you know, our rights and what we're entitled to,
Speaker:but hard is not the same as bad. And so when when I
Speaker:really internalize that and I view my own life
Speaker:and the lives around me, that the people that I'm trying to walk with,
Speaker:when I keep that at the forefront, that heart is not the same as
Speaker:bad, then I can remove kind of that first
Speaker:reactionary trigger response that wants to come as
Speaker:soon as I bump into something that feels difficult and uncomfortable and
Speaker:hard. If I can remove that first instinct that, oh my goodness,
Speaker:something's wrong. This is bad. And instead go, wait a minute.
Speaker:Hard is not the same as bad. Hard is sometimes
Speaker:exactly where the growth is. And we know this. Right? We
Speaker:know this so easily in other other
Speaker:parts of our existence, whether that's in Paul's
Speaker:example in the Bible was, you know, an athlete training.
Speaker:Mhmm. We know that hard work breaks
Speaker:about endurance and, what are
Speaker:all the things that are listed in in that verse? Are you looking it
Speaker:up, Johan? I think you're referring to Romans 5:4. I just looked it up
Speaker:here. Endurance produces character, and character produces hope.
Speaker:Now this hope does not disappoint us because god's love has been poured out into
Speaker:our hearts by the holy spirit who has been given to us.
Speaker:Yes. That's it right there. Bingo. And that and
Speaker:that's where yeah. That I mean, segueing into hope
Speaker:then when out of this suffering, my
Speaker:family
Speaker:my family and I have been living crisis to crisis. It feels
Speaker:like, you know, we just we just barely catch our breath and something
Speaker:else happens. And then we've just barely gotten back on our feet or
Speaker:we're on our knees and something else happens. And,
Speaker:you know, even people around us. You know, I've had so many people people say
Speaker:to me, you know, oh, you guys, you just can't catch a break. You know?
Speaker:And and it's easy to want to just kind of sink into
Speaker:the melancholy and the, I guess, the, the discouragement
Speaker:of that and the exhaustion of that. But at the same time, I
Speaker:see, I see this truth that heart is not the same as bad. And
Speaker:I see in my own heart, this working out of that verse in
Speaker:Romans where I'm seeing this character
Speaker:that he is producing within my own heart and within
Speaker:the hearts of the people around me and and, you know, good things happening
Speaker:within my marriage, within my relationships, and even in our
Speaker:family when when it feels like everything is fracturing and falling apart.
Speaker:God is going about weeding out the yucky, icky
Speaker:things that that aren't supposed to be there, but that I
Speaker:would never go and pay attention to if I didn't have
Speaker:to. Right? So that that's where, like, the hope lies, I
Speaker:guess, that God is a good father to me. And he
Speaker:will walk me into those hard and messy places in order to
Speaker:truly refine me and bring me into that broader,
Speaker:greener pasture that he wants me to be able to reside in.
Speaker:Yeah. In the good and the hard, God is still
Speaker:good. It's not dependent on our circumstances
Speaker:if they're good or bad. I think we can honestly say sometimes things are hard,
Speaker:and some things are the way they shouldn't be, and yet this is the reality
Speaker:that we're all living in. You can fill in the blank. Everybody has their own
Speaker:experience that they're they're called to face. And I think it's our
Speaker:faithfulness and and just turning to God, not that God is impressed
Speaker:by, oh, did you see me now, god? How I responded? I
Speaker:really saved the day there. He's not impressed. He he just wants
Speaker:our surrender. Right? He just like, I got you, girl.
Speaker:I've got you. And and it's not on our just on our behavior that
Speaker:we have to win this approval at inner bad situations or
Speaker:hard situations that we have to somehow behave
Speaker:in an extraordinary way to win that approval of God. We are
Speaker:beloved, and he just delights, though, when you,
Speaker:Elisha, respond in those hardships, whether there's healing or
Speaker:not, whether there's there's reunification or not, whether it's
Speaker:restoration or not. But in those hard times, how are you being
Speaker:faithful to that? That is where, we can get
Speaker:that hope, that only comes from Christ, and
Speaker:we let go of some false sense of control in these
Speaker:situations. However, I will argue, though, we could, and we
Speaker:some I sometimes do. There are some areas that I just wanna
Speaker:control, so I'm just not gonna go there. I'm gonna avoid the pain, and, therefore,
Speaker:I'm gonna say no to it. That is easy. Like, I think in
Speaker:today's society, we very much, prize control
Speaker:in having everything, having boundaries, for example, even though God is
Speaker:knocking and saying, I'm gonna mess that schedule up. Are you willing to give it
Speaker:up? I just had it recently, and it's just like, God, this wasn't part of
Speaker:my plans, and yet, God is so faithful.
Speaker:I really admire that your faith hasn't really
Speaker:been shaken in the midst of this. And, like, I see it evidenced
Speaker:even in some of your communications with our Care Impact team. Like, when
Speaker:when you're going through those crisis after crisis, we've seen those prayer requests come
Speaker:out on the on the chat. You didn't just fold back
Speaker:into your little world and try to deal with it on your own, but you're
Speaker:really reaching out to people and asking, hey. I really
Speaker:need prayer for this because the Lord's the one that needs to intervene, and he's
Speaker:the one that's gonna help us through it. So it's evidenced in your life, even
Speaker:as you go through the crisis, that you're leaning into him and his goodness.
Speaker:Thank you so much for that, Johan. That's really encouraging. And and I
Speaker:just, yeah, I just wanna testify that I, I feel like that's
Speaker:a very new work in my heart. This, and again, one of those
Speaker:things that God has produced and my husband and I were just talking about
Speaker:this the other day, the the humility that we are learning
Speaker:how to walk with, stay learning because it's,
Speaker:knock on wood. We we did a lots of practice with humility,
Speaker:but just reaching that place and and being
Speaker:able to let go and realize, you know what? Both the
Speaker:good and the bad, they're not all on me. You know, it's
Speaker:not my story that's being written right now. It's God's
Speaker:story that is being written, and he's gonna do what he's gonna
Speaker:do. And that I don't have to I don't have to take
Speaker:on so much, you know, when it comes to the tough times. I I don't
Speaker:have to take it all on and try to white knuckle through it all by
Speaker:myself. But then also in the good times, I don't have to
Speaker:just hoard that to myself and bring the glory and the
Speaker:credit on myself somehow. I can just
Speaker:relish the the fact that the truth that I know that this
Speaker:was not me. There's no way that I could have brought this about.
Speaker:And so I would say that that has brought a lot of freedom
Speaker:and joy to our our lives in the last couple years as we've been
Speaker:moving from crisis to crisis to crisis and starting
Speaker:to to just stay in a, I guess, a a posture
Speaker:of learning and humility and growth and
Speaker:understanding that, you know what? God's doing a thing here
Speaker:and we don't know what it is right now. And we may never know what
Speaker:it is, but our job, just like you were saying, Wendy,
Speaker:is just about faithfulness. That reminds me of a
Speaker:conversation that I had with Kirby a little while ago. And it's just gonna
Speaker:stick in my mind forever because you know how sometimes you just have those conversations
Speaker:and somebody just helps you have this light bulb moment and you think like,
Speaker:oh my goodness. I I don't know how I had it so wrong.
Speaker:But I was just really struggling. I was struggling with my own capacity
Speaker:limits as a human. I mean, as a mom of 6 kids and and
Speaker:the huge age range that we have, I feel pulled
Speaker:in so many different directions on any given day. I I feel
Speaker:like I'm always letting somebody down. You know, I feel like there's never quite
Speaker:enough of me to go around to everyone everywhere. And especially when
Speaker:you start adding some special needs and exceptionalities in there that
Speaker:just take some extra time and attention. And, and I wish that had more
Speaker:to offer them. So I I was just sharing with him how I
Speaker:just felt so so burdened and, you know, that I was just
Speaker:hitting the ceiling all the time of my capacity limits. And I
Speaker:was exhausted and I desperately needed rest, but I also
Speaker:felt this this heaviness that I didn't want to somehow
Speaker:I wanted to make sure I was being accountable to live up to my
Speaker:potential. And I I went on and on
Speaker:along this thread. And and finally, I stopped. And and he just looked at
Speaker:me and he's like, I I don't understand what you think
Speaker:your capacity has to do with
Speaker:God and his faithfulness and your faithfulness to him,
Speaker:because this is what I was trying to struggle through. What it looked like for
Speaker:me to be faithful? That was my question. How do I be
Speaker:faithful? And how do I make sure that I'm being faithful? And and
Speaker:in that moment, it was just like this light bulb. And, you know, he he
Speaker:was just like, it it's not about you. It it doesn't matter how
Speaker:hard you try, how hard you strive, how concerned you are
Speaker:about reaching your potential. That is not what God is requiring of
Speaker:you when he is asking you to be faithful. And
Speaker:so I feel like simultaneously to all this, I've been on this
Speaker:journey of of learning what it means to abide and learning
Speaker:that that is what it means to be faithful. The only thing that
Speaker:God requires of me is that I abide in him and become
Speaker:this source of the life that he has to offer. Right? And
Speaker:there's so much freedom in that when I realize that it's not me. I
Speaker:don't I don't have to make sure that I've got it all
Speaker:perfect. Instead, I just need to be a
Speaker:channel that his lifeblood can run through.
Speaker:And thinking about that Vine analogy of just when I'm
Speaker:connected to him, there will be fruit on the other end, and it has nothing
Speaker:to do with me, but I get to be there. And I get to watch
Speaker:it happen, and I get to be a part of it. And that's that's the
Speaker:beauty of being a part of his family, right, and a part of his kingdom.
Speaker:And there's a underlying deep joy
Speaker:even in hardship when you see you're connected to
Speaker:the vine, to God, and seeing the fruit that despite
Speaker:us in our shortcomings and the things that we cannot
Speaker:do or have capacity for. I love that conversation.
Speaker:Despite that, God is doing a good thing. I think there's listeners
Speaker:right now that are going through fill in the blank hardship.
Speaker:Whether they're a mom or they wish they were a mom or they're facing they
Speaker:were thrust into a financial or workplace or
Speaker:there's so many different crises, not to even mention all the things that
Speaker:we see in the news, but sometimes things happen to us. And then
Speaker:there's also people listening that have this little niggle, kinda like
Speaker:you did when you were getting married about fostering or
Speaker:adopting or invitation into that they could actually
Speaker:say no and get away with. But they're sitting at the
Speaker:precipice of these things, either in crisis or invited into it.
Speaker:Can you speak to them in what it looks like just
Speaker:to abide in those moments and to trust? What would you say to
Speaker:them? Well, I feel like I'm very much still on the
Speaker:journey of learning what it means to abide. Like I said, I
Speaker:feel like this has just been the last couple of years that that God is
Speaker:showing me what it looks like and feels like to walk in,
Speaker:in freedom and to walk in this spirit of
Speaker:abiding in him. I have had the privilege of working with
Speaker:a really impactful Christian counselor who has been
Speaker:such a great source of wisdom and, and guidance for
Speaker:me as I, as I work out some of these things. And what does this
Speaker:look like practically? For me, it's meant
Speaker:having the faith to prioritize time in the
Speaker:word and time with other believers, even
Speaker:when, you know, my my schedule is packed and my life is
Speaker:chaotic to believe that my time spent
Speaker:with Jesus or my time spent with other Jesus lovers, my
Speaker:time spent in worship is going to pour life into
Speaker:me even if I can't feel it in the moment. So I think
Speaker:that is a big one. And I know I know there are probably a lot
Speaker:of moms out there. I know the last thing you wanna hear is another to
Speaker:do thing. Right? But I just, I know what it
Speaker:feels like to have time with God as a as a
Speaker:thing on my to do list. And then I know what it feels like to
Speaker:have it as something that I crave
Speaker:and look forward to. And it's definitely one of those things that the
Speaker:more you do it, the more you crave it. And the more that you
Speaker:see the value and the more that you start learning how
Speaker:to work that into the little pieces of your day. And I
Speaker:let's be clear. Like, I do not I don't rise early. I don't
Speaker:spend hours. I I'm not that person. I wake up with my
Speaker:kids. I have one of my kids wakes up at 7 o'clock AM every
Speaker:single morning. It doesn't matter if it's the weekend or the weekday. He's a very
Speaker:scheduled little person. 7 o'clock AM. He's my alarm
Speaker:clock. It's time to get up. That's when I get up. I don't get up
Speaker:early, but I find time. I use screens
Speaker:to occupy my little one so that I can have time with
Speaker:Jesus. I go for walks and, you
Speaker:know, pray out loud while I'm pushing the stroller. I post
Speaker:scripture around the house and I have them in my
Speaker:bathroom so that every time I go into the bathroom, I
Speaker:see those verses, and it starts to infiltrate every part of
Speaker:my day. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I
Speaker:have the bible app on my phone, and I look at the verse of the
Speaker:day. A week ago, I felt like the verse of the day the
Speaker:verse of the day was all I had. It was a crazy week. It was
Speaker:all I had. Every day, I had the verse of the day, and that was
Speaker:it. But you know what? God was faithful in that. And, honestly, by,
Speaker:like, the 4th day, I was, like, opening up the Bible up being like,
Speaker:okay, Jesus. What do you have for me today? I'm a little scared because so
Speaker:far, the verse of the day in the morning has really given me a pretty
Speaker:good tip-off for what I'm gonna need today. And some days that was
Speaker:that was just, you know, rejoice and be glad, and other times it was
Speaker:like endure through hardship and giving me a heads up. Like, this is gonna be
Speaker:a day. You're gonna need this. But it's beautiful. It's beautiful the way that he
Speaker:meets us and whatever we bring to him. He is
Speaker:faithful to just increase and and
Speaker:produce good things in in our hearts and in our minds and
Speaker:yeah. So I feel like that's what I'm learning about abiding, that it doesn't doesn't
Speaker:have to be big and hard. It's just about being in
Speaker:relationship. Right? And it's a bit of that intentionality, right, and
Speaker:being creative. God doesn't need us to necessarily spend an hour a day
Speaker:in in morning solitude because sometimes that's not our reality. But
Speaker:can we seek God while we're breathing? Can we seek God when we're
Speaker:doing dishes and taking appointments, responding to urgent
Speaker:crisis? Just I did it the other day. Lord, help. That's all
Speaker:I had. That's all I had, but god met me in those places. It wasn't
Speaker:out of a I should, but, lord, help.
Speaker:That's what he used to tell young people when I worked with him in the
Speaker:church. It's like, god's not disappointed with the time you didn't spend with
Speaker:him. He's excited about that moment that you glance
Speaker:towards him. Those small specific moments, he gets
Speaker:excited about that. So don't dwell in the time that you didn't spend with him
Speaker:and don't mourn over that. Just see his face when you do glance
Speaker:towards him. And I don't know about you. That's really good, Johanna. But I'm
Speaker:wondering, sometimes my capacity is
Speaker:so limited in the the things that I've been thrust into and that God has
Speaker:called me to, I really don't even have the words to,
Speaker:like, pray a lot. I sometimes I have those go to in my
Speaker:community. It takes a village, and and it's just
Speaker:like, guys, pray. Where can I turn to? Like,
Speaker:you are my people. And so I'm wondering about community,
Speaker:and what has that meant to you? Have you experienced
Speaker:God in community that they held you when you felt
Speaker:like you couldn't do it on your own? Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah. That's been a a huge part of our journey as well. I would
Speaker:say right up front that I feel, I feel so
Speaker:incredibly blessed with the community that God has brought into
Speaker:our lives. And I know a lot of people have to work really
Speaker:hard to find and create community. And I will say that I
Speaker:feel like that was gifted to us before we
Speaker:could even ask. When I look back and I, and I watched the ways
Speaker:that God led us, we made a number of church moves
Speaker:and we moved outside of the community where we grew up
Speaker:in. And all of those pieces, I I just see his hand
Speaker:and the way that he was orchestrating the community that we would
Speaker:need to be able to to move through, you know, the
Speaker:the years where we were living crises to crises. We have a really
Speaker:incredible church community who is really authentic, really,
Speaker:a safe space where where we can be real and honest with our
Speaker:struggles and with the challenges that that our family dynamics can
Speaker:bring. But very much, I would say we we've been blessed with so
Speaker:many friends and family who they don't look at us with that savior
Speaker:mentality. And that's so important to me that they don't look at
Speaker:us and say, wow, you know, I could never do what you're doing. They
Speaker:see. They they see the ways that we're messing up. They see the ways
Speaker:that we are being faithful. They see when
Speaker:the outcomes are, you know, as we've prayed for and as we hoped, and they
Speaker:see when the outcomes are devastating and painful. And they're
Speaker:just there. They're just there to walk it with us and to encourage us
Speaker:and to point us to truth when we become discouraged and disillusioned.
Speaker:You know, they're there to point us back to God and say, you know, it's
Speaker:not about you. It's not about you, and you need to let go of that,
Speaker:or this is how you can grow. This is what I see. Again, I'm
Speaker:thankful for for the community that God's blessed us with. He's
Speaker:placed so many safe people in my life who I can honestly
Speaker:go to, and I can say, help me out here. Like, what am I missing?
Speaker:Like, how can I how can I do this differently?
Speaker:And they can speak into my life and my heart and my approach and and
Speaker:same with my kids. You know? Like, I I'm a mama bear. There's not I
Speaker:was gonna say there's not too many people that I trust with my kids, but
Speaker:but surprisingly, there actually is quite a number of people
Speaker:who I trust with my kids' hearts and and their stories and their
Speaker:challenges. And and I'm so thankful for that because I know there's a
Speaker:lot of really lonely foster and adoptive mommas out there, particularly
Speaker:Good. And I am not one of them. Thank you, Jesus. And our
Speaker:family has been incredible. Early on, we were
Speaker:very young when we first began pursuing adoption and foster care.
Speaker:And we had some family members who were very, hesitant to
Speaker:kind of jump on board with us, and that was really a discouraging
Speaker:time for for me in particular. But it took me a long
Speaker:time to realize that they they saw a lot of things that
Speaker:I had yet to learn. You know, I was I was young and I was
Speaker:naive and I was energetic and I was passionate. And those were
Speaker:things that God God knew that he needed to place within me to get
Speaker:me to to the start line. But I'm so thankful now. You
Speaker:know, those same people who were hesitant at the beginning, Now I'm
Speaker:going back to them and I'm saying, I get it now. Like, I I
Speaker:get why you were hesitant because you could see such a clearer
Speaker:picture than I could. And I'm so grateful that you're willing to still be
Speaker:here and support me and walk this with us. And and they were, you
Speaker:know, as soon as we were there and we were deciding this is what we're
Speaker:going to do, and this is what we feel like God is asking us to
Speaker:do, they were a 100% on board. They have never been, you know,
Speaker:anything but supportive. But I'm I'm grateful for
Speaker:that first experience that we had because now,
Speaker:10 years into the journey, it gives them, you know, credibility
Speaker:in my own heart when I can look back and realize, oh,
Speaker:you saw this coming. And because you were my
Speaker:parents or my sibling or, or my aunt or uncle, you know, you you
Speaker:wanted to spare me some discomfort and some pain that you knew that I was
Speaker:going to bump into, but god had a different plan and a different story.
Speaker:And and now you're here, and I I can come to you and I know
Speaker:that you were a safe place for me to talk through this and work through
Speaker:this hard feeling. And I love it because you still were
Speaker:obedient because this was a calling. You went back to those
Speaker:people, and sometimes people in good intentions wanna prevent us from having
Speaker:that harm, right, or going through hardship. And
Speaker:yet both of you, I think, are stretched in that. You they were stretched
Speaker:into entering those spaces. And I think this is a message, and
Speaker:it sort of embodies what Care Impact is about. That is not
Speaker:everybody is called into these exact spaces of fostering or
Speaker:adopting or or you name it in in the most hardship of
Speaker:hardships. But we're all called to care, and we
Speaker:need aunties and uncles and people in our village that
Speaker:are called to give or called to give a wise counsel or called in
Speaker:different ways that I love calling people in our village saying,
Speaker:hey. Do you wanna have a fire tonight? I I just wanna talk. Or
Speaker:would you yes. I will say yes to to your help and and being
Speaker:vulnerable and saying, you know what? I I need people in our village. And I
Speaker:think not everybody is able to the way you
Speaker:have. You have had to be vulnerable in saying, you know what?
Speaker:I don't have it all together. I do need a village, and I think there's
Speaker:a lot we could all learn about being that village
Speaker:for the people around us going through hardship.
Speaker:We really need each other, and there's a place for everybody to get
Speaker:involved. And don't worry about getting your hands dirty. It is
Speaker:worth it when we're we're following the way God has called us.
Speaker:Well, I know we have to wrap things up pretty soon, but there is a
Speaker:a very beautiful lining to this whole story. And the reason
Speaker:that you are part of our Care Impact team, the
Speaker:academy, the part of the trauma training, I'd love for you to share a
Speaker:little bit about your experience and your why to
Speaker:why you are dedicating time to train up churches,
Speaker:not just the foster and adoptive moms, but churches and
Speaker:camps and ministries and and organizations to
Speaker:to grow in their capacity to care. Can you talk a little
Speaker:bit about trauma care? I would love to talk a little bit
Speaker:about trauma care. You may need to shut me down.
Speaker:This has become my my passion and my purpose. And,
Speaker:again, so grateful that God has brought us
Speaker:into a space and community, where we are
Speaker:able to learn and be a part of other people's learning
Speaker:journeys as well. Early on in our adoption and foster care journey,
Speaker:we quickly realized that we did not
Speaker:have the resources that we needed in order to parent our
Speaker:children well. So early in our journey, we definitely
Speaker:just came to a very clear realization that we did not
Speaker:have the tools and resources we needed to be able to
Speaker:parent our children the way that they needed to be parented and the way
Speaker:that we wanted to be able to parent them. And that led us on a
Speaker:journey to not only broadening our village
Speaker:to include more adoptive and foster families who had gone before us
Speaker:and to learn from them, but also to bring in a lot of
Speaker:professionals. People who've spent time studying both
Speaker:science and scripture and bringing those two things
Speaker:together. And that was such a beautiful
Speaker:light bulb moment in our journey when we started to understand
Speaker:that there are people who have spent time studying
Speaker:science, studying how God has created the human body
Speaker:and brain and nervous system to work together, but also
Speaker:digging into scripture and realizing, like, God knew that all along,
Speaker:and he's got plans for this. And there's hope because we we really
Speaker:did find that training outside of the church community
Speaker:left us feeling a little discouraged and overwhelmed. But when we
Speaker:started seeking out training and equipping from believers,
Speaker:we found that there was so much hope, and there was so much support
Speaker:available. And so what I think that we have
Speaker:enjoyed discovering more than anything is just that science
Speaker:about neuroscience, in particular, exalts the
Speaker:glory of God and the creativity of God and the faithfulness of
Speaker:God to always provide a way of healing
Speaker:and that he never wants us to stay stuck in those
Speaker:place of trauma or grief or destruction,
Speaker:but that he has hope available for us. And so that's
Speaker:really the why for me behind why I I'm
Speaker:involved in trauma care training. And then alongside
Speaker:that, living that out as I watch my kids, as I
Speaker:live in the the challenges of our family dynamics.
Speaker:I'm so passionate about helping people around us understand
Speaker:what that looks like and feels like so that they can come alongside
Speaker:and support other people. We have been blessed with such an incredible
Speaker:village who does that really well, but I know there are so
Speaker:many families out there. I hear those families all the time
Speaker:who are very lonely, very under supported,
Speaker:and very overwhelmed with their reality. And
Speaker:I wanna bring them home through all the spaces in their life. I think
Speaker:it's important that it's not only, you know, places
Speaker:specific to foster care and adoption that are equipped with these
Speaker:resources because it's not only foster and adoptive families who
Speaker:struggle and who feel the impacts of trauma. I don't have the
Speaker:statistics offhand. Come to our course if you wanna hear the statistics.
Speaker:But the number of people in Canada
Speaker:who have experienced trauma is overwhelming. And
Speaker:so I think, you know, as the church, this is our time. This is
Speaker:our place. This is the space where we get to rise up and bring
Speaker:the good news of the gospel. And that's what trauma care is all
Speaker:about for me, is bringing the gospel, bringing hope. I love it. I get a
Speaker:bird's eye view from from what you guys are all doing. We have a team
Speaker:of of trauma trainers from across Canada. They are professionals and
Speaker:practitioners in the daytime. And in evenings and weekends,
Speaker:we do a lot of workshops and training. And what I get to see
Speaker:is that this growing team of professionals, they light up
Speaker:when they're able to share it with with a lot of people, in the
Speaker:church and and nonprofit areas and are able to build capacity
Speaker:and speak out of their experience. And and you speak out of your own experience.
Speaker:It's not just up there neuroscience and out of a textbook and out of the
Speaker:Bible. You're living this out, and you're still wrestling seeking
Speaker:answers and empowerment. And then on the flip side, I'm also seeing churches empowered saying,
Speaker:you know what?
Speaker:As a Sunday school teacher or as a pastor or as a leader in this
Speaker:nonprofit, suddenly, they have tools, a way to connect with
Speaker:some of the most vulnerable and see actually, signs
Speaker:of progress and healing and and redemptive stories that we get out of
Speaker:man, we could have full episodes, and we will have to, Johan, on
Speaker:this. But there's so many examples of how people
Speaker:when we know better, we do better. And when we have more
Speaker:tools, we see more people feeling safe in our congregations. We
Speaker:haven't talked about that. But so often, we need to create that felt
Speaker:safety like you are doing within your church community. I'm sure it's
Speaker:been a learning journey altogether. Yeah. And I
Speaker:love being able to do this, and I'm so humbled to be able to do
Speaker:this and that God's given me this opportunity because hear me well. Like,
Speaker:I am not getting it all right. I mean, my kids will testify to
Speaker:that. They would don't bring them on the podcast. They would love to tell
Speaker:you all the ways that I don't get it right. And, I mean, very recently,
Speaker:Webb pointed out to me. She's like, you know, mom, you're a trauma care trainer.
Speaker:You should know better. I'm like, you're right. I should. But I still get
Speaker:it wrong all the time. So it's beautiful to be able to bring the hope.
Speaker:And then, like you said, to be able to say, you know what? Like, I
Speaker:know this sounds lofty, and this sounds like a really big
Speaker:goal, and I get that that's overwhelming, but it's baby steps.
Speaker:Right? If you leave a 6 hour training with one
Speaker:little tidbit of one thing you're gonna do differently, that's all that
Speaker:matters. That's all that matters. It's about growing. It's about when we know
Speaker:better, we can do better. And that might just be one baby step at
Speaker:a time, but those baby steps can end up making a really big difference
Speaker:in the long run. And God is faithful to to take our
Speaker:efforts, feeble as they may be sometimes, and
Speaker:produce beautiful things. Well, Alicia, I don't
Speaker:know how how many podcasts we we've never had a podcast
Speaker:guest on wild parenting live in front of the camera.
Speaker:And and I've just gotta say, you are practicing it
Speaker:literally while we're doing this. It's beautiful to watch. And in your
Speaker:humanity, in your vulnerability, you are just shining. I know
Speaker:you're not even trying to do this. You're being superhuman and
Speaker:super vulnerable, but, also, what I feel is that
Speaker:people can relate to you. You're actually a human being that is
Speaker:just doing the best you can, being faithful to God. And
Speaker:we just as a team here at Care Impact, we love you. We love what
Speaker:you bring in that authenticity. I think that's when we can see
Speaker:healing and growth. So thank you so much, Alicia,
Speaker:for coming on to the podcast even while you're parenting
Speaker:and, sharing from your heart. And I love how you're taking those
Speaker:scissors away from your child sitting on your lap right now. That's a
Speaker:beautiful thing. He keeps going for the scissors. He keeps going for them.
Speaker:We do have to have you back on, though, because I know there's so much
Speaker:more to your story and so much encouraging words that you can share. Thank you
Speaker:so much. You're welcome. Thank you for
Speaker:joining another conversation on Journey with Care, where we
Speaker:inspire curious Canadians on their path of faith and living
Speaker:life with purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative
Speaker:of Care Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting and
Speaker:equipping the whole church to journey well in community. You can
Speaker:visit their website at careimpact. Ca or visit journey with care.
Speaker:Ca to get more information on weekly episodes, journey with
Speaker:prayer, and details about our upcoming events purpose.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories purpose. Thank you for
Speaker:sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the community. Together,
Speaker:we can explore ways to journey journey in a good way. And always
Speaker:remember to stay curious.
