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Faith Amidst the Frantic: How Do Mothers Juggle Chaos with Grace? | Alicia Freeman
Episode 1710th May 2024 • Journey With Care • CareImpact
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Description

Alicia Freeman shares her experiences with fostering and adopting children and the impact on her faith. Throughout the episode, hosts Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs dive into the messy, beautiful reality of caring for vulnerable children and the theological insights gained through suffering. Alicia discusses the personal challenges and triggers brought on by the children's behaviors, reflecting on how these experiences have strengthened her marriage and community relationships. Emphasizing the importance of surrendering to God's plan, Alicia, together with the hosts, explores the theme of finding hope and joy amidst crises, emphasizing the role of faithfulness and community support. This episode not only highlights the difficulties faced by those on similar journeys but also the transformative power of embracing imperfection and relying on spiritual and communal strength.

Time Stamps

[04:51] Navigating difficult comments

[08:44] Unexpected triggers from helping traumatized children accumulate.

[12:25] Struggle with faith leads to profound realization.

[16:42] Finding hope and growth in hardship and pain.

[20:22] Grateful for encouragement and learning humility.

[21:14] Find joy in not having to do it all.

[26:03] Learning to abide in God through faith.

[31:02] Thankful for God's gift of community support.

[37:18] Passion for trauma care and learning journey.

[38:26] Finding hope through faith and neuroscience training.

[41:38] Churches find empowerment, tools, and healing progress.

Other Links

Reach out to us! https://journeywithcare.ca/podcast

Email: podcast@careimpact.ca

Listen To Journey With Prayer - A prayer journey corresponding to this episode: https://journeywithprayer.captivate.fm/listen

or get both podcasts on the same RSS feed! https://feeds.captivate.fm/n/careimpact-podcast

CareImpact: careimpact.ca

About the CarePortal: careimpact.ca/careportal

DONATE! Help connect and equip more churches across Canada to effectively journey well in community with children and families: careimpact.ca/donate

Editing and production by Johan Heinrichs: arkpodcasts.ca

Transcripts

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As a mom of 6 kids and the huge age range that we have,

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I feel pulled in so many different directions on

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any given day. I I feel like I'm always letting somebody down, you

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know? I feel like there's never quite enough of me to go around to everyone

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everywhere, and especially when you start adding some special needs

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and exceptionalities in there that just take some extra time and attention, and

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I wish that I had more to offer

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them. What does loving your neighbor actually look like?

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This is Journey with Care, where curious Canadians get

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inspired to love others well through real life stories and

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honest conversations.

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Welcome journey with care listeners. We've had several weeks

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of some Jeopardy, getting to know Wendy and I a little bit, and

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then we've been on the road to Kansas City. You heard all about that.

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And finally, we're getting back to the stories. We know

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you're here for the stories, the real stories, the honest

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stories, and today is not gonna disappoint. We

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have one of our associates on, Alicia. Well, I'm just so

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excited. We have Alicia Freeman from Parry Sound,

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Ontario. She is part of the Care Impact team, and, she

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can share a little bit herself. But, Alicia, welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you so much. I'm really honored and really excited to be here with

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both of you. This is a first for me. So, Alicia, you wanna maybe introduce

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yourself to our listeners, maybe tell us a little bit about your family?

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I would love to do that. So I'm married to my best friend

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and partner in crime for 14 years now, Kirby. We

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were high school sweethearts, fell in love, got married very early

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on, and began our family very early on. God really placed it

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on our hearts to pursue adoption and foster care.

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So, we have 6 beautiful kids. Our oldest three

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children are adoptive children, so they've come just through adoption

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and foster care. And our youngest three children are biological,

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And they range in ages from 12 months to 17 years,

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so we kinda have the whole gamut going on there. Wow. That's a that's

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a large span there as a mom. And I look at you.

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You look so young to to be parenting 6

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children, and, you and your husband have been called

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into fostering adoption since you got married. Is that

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correct? Yeah. So I was one of those people who just

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I honestly can't remember a time when I didn't anticipate

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foster care and adoption being a part of my story. So God just

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he placed some people very intentionally within my sphere as a

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child already who really impacted me and moved me in that

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direction. Married. It it took him

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some time, but he he

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got there married. It it took him some time, but he he got there, and

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he is absolutely fully in. So it sounds like you guys

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have kinda jumped right into this fairly early on in your

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marriage. So what inspired you guys to foster and adopt?

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That's a good question. I think that, like I mentioned, like, there

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were people within that God really placed specifically and intentionally

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in my sphere of influence, who I observed

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as they brought children into their home through adoption and foster

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care. And God just used those stories to

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really impact me and my growing heart and full disclosure.

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I jumped in as, you know, a hardcore savior mentalist.

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So the past 2 decades now, God has spent just

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chipping away at that savior mentality that I first arrived

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with. But my husband and I always say, you know, it was that naivety

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and that enthusiasm that god used to bring us to the place where he

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wanted us. And then he was like, okay. I've got you here now. I've got

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a lot of work to do. Well, thank you for your honesty and

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vulnerability in that because I think that many people could

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with that, and we see vulnerable children and those needing homes, and

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and it's easy to fall into that. Like, hey. Let's just swoop in and

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and rescue the children. Maybe we can make a better future.

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And and there's there's a lot of good intentions in all of that,

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but I think life taking in children, even

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speaking from experience, life going through that journey has a way

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of dethroning us. Right? Humbling us as parents.

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And do you get a lot of people asking you, wow. Good for

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you. I could never do that. You are just like a superwoman

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kind of mentality. Do you get some of that feedback where it's like, I could

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never do that. I love my children too much, and I would get it too

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attached with fostering? Yes.

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So much of the time. And that's something that I've I've really

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worked on kinda trying to to script my answer to, because

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I I used to honestly just get really offended because I I felt like

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what they were saying was, like, I'm a much more loving person than you, and

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I could never possibly bring children into my home and then let them go. And

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I was like, okay. Thanks. But I know I

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know what their intentions are behind those comments, but I do really view

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those now as opportunities to, you know, just show off the glory

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of God and and show off my own weakness and just saying, like, you know,

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that was me. Like, I always said that exact same thing,

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but it's really not about me. And at the end of the day, it it

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doesn't really hinge on what I think that my capacity is. If

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God is asking me to do this, then he promises that he will be faithful

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and he will equip me with whatever it is I need in order to

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be able to do this. But, yeah, it it's really uncomfortable to be

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kind of put on a pedestal, especially when life is

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messy and hard and you know how much you're struggling in the day to day.

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You're you're like, oh my goodness. If you walk through my doors, you would you

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would not say that anymore. We still

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have dishes on our counters. Right? And you still have lots of

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appointments. And and, yes, you're not claiming to be superhuman

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in this, but you still you have one child. Hopefully, we'll hear from her yet.

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She's crawling around you there, but and 5 lunches to make where you've got

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appointments to take, social services to attend to. You've

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got a lot on the go with 6 children with complex

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stories as well. Just so our our listeners know that you

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aren't Superwoman, is there something even that maybe happened this morning

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that just can give us a little insight that you are a

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actual real human being like everyone else

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just serving the lord? Yeah. I love that. There's so many things

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that pop into my mind, but the first thing that popped into my mind because

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you specified something that happened this morning, This morning, just

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like almost every morning of my life, I was running

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late. I cannot seem to adjust my

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schedule and my margins so that I arrive on time

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anywhere. And it doesn't matter if I have all 6 of my children with

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me or one of my children with me. Just recently, I

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arrived, like, 5 minutes late to a doctor's appointment for my baby.

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She was due for immunizations, and they canceled on me. They

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wouldn't let me come in, and I was so frustrated with myself

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and so frustrated with them even though I I knew that I didn't really have

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a right to be frustrated with them. But it it was just a frustrating experience.

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So I I really don't, like, I don't enjoy being late, but I I just

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seem to have trouble, like, adjusting my life and making paying attention to my margins,

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I guess, so that I can arrive on my making

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paying attention to my margins, I guess, so that I can arrive on

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time with everybody, you know, fed and clothed and intact.

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Probably have to do, like, a deep dive on what's going on there for me.

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It probably has a lot to do with mental rest, which is something we

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talk about a lot in our trauma care, self care module.

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But, yeah, just the the mental overwhelm can be very

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real.

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So we've just had another guest join our podcast. So if you hear

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from this guest, I I don't know if they'll introduce themselves

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because I don't think they could talk. But, anyway, Wendy.

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I'd love to dive in a little bit about some of the

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challenges. The things that sometimes aren't Pinterest worthy are not

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on Instagram. It's not those cute pictures. But when you were talking about some of

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the hardship as a parent and and having to, move

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into a difficult journey through the the journeys of your children,

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are there some things that you've been surprised or challenged by when you said

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yes to caring for children in difficult places? I'm

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just curious how you have grown as a person as you you've said yes into

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these difficult spaces. Yeah. Absolutely.

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One of the first things that comes to my mind that I think really

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shocked me was I like I said, I I have carried

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this, passion for caring for vulnerable children for a

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very long time. And I always assumed that

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knowing their stories and knowing where they have come from and

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the traumas that they've lived through would transform

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me into an incredibly compassionate person

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who was always able to understand, you know,

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why they may be behaving in the ways that they're behaving,

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but it's turned out that's really not the case. I still struggle

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with being irritated over tiny things and getting

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frustrated when their behaviors or even emotions

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that are just really uncomfortable or

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invading my own personal space. I never would

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have anticipated that I would start accumulating so many triggers

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of my own. I remember early on in our journey

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hearing about vicarious trauma for the first time, and

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it felt very foreign and very strange to me. And

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now I know exactly what that is and exactly what that feels like

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because after you've walked alongside somebody who's

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hurting and struggling, you get a little mess on yourself.

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And I love thinking about how, when Jesus came

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to earth to rescue us, he

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came in such a human form and he came in such a

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messy and painful and human way. And he, he really

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did let our mess get all over himself.

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And, the truth is that's, that's what happens when, when

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we walk closely with people who are hurting and struggling

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is we start, we start to get messy and, and that can be

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really uncomfortable and really disillusioning

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to find yourself in a place where suddenly you're dealing with your own triggers and

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your own trauma due to caring for others.

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So that was very, very surprising and has brought a lot of challenges.

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I think that's, very profound,

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what you just stated here because I think in North America,

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regardless of the denomination, I think there's a lot

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of prosperity gospel infused in our thinking. If we follow

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God, things will get better. It's, like, almost, like, up the

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the ladder, so to speak, in euphoria of

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spiritual experience, and and yet you're right. When we come

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into proximity with pain, the places that God has called us to, it's

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not rescuing out of. It's entering into. And

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I know there's ways, and you you've been teaching this. I think it comes from

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a very authentic space in our trauma care training. You've been

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training other people in ministries and camps and in churches

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how to enter into the mess and yet not

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walk as traumatized, but work through that trauma.

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But it sometimes it evokes, at least for myself, it evokes some things that I

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didn't even know I had to deal with. But because they've triggered me in

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these areas, I need to grow in these spaces.

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But we have this prosperity gospel at play at war against these

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experiences that we're called into hardship. And one thing

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I would love to see the church expand on, and I don't know if you

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have any comments to this, but just having a a deeper theology

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of suffering, that suffering isn't inherently bad. It's

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sometimes what we're called to. Have you experienced some of

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that dissonance within your own faith

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experience and going through hardship with your family?

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Yes. Absolutely. A number of years ago, one of

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our biological children actually ended up being diagnosed with

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a brain tumor and walking with him through that journey, he was 18

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months old at the time. And I just remember that was, that was the

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first of many times in the next number of years

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that I would just have to face the question that

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was resounding in my heart, where I, I believed that God

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was good in this overarching way, but I was really

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struggling to believe that God was good to me and to my children.

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You know, God in his kindness and his graciousness made

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me face that question repeatedly over and over again

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so that I could struggle through that and come to this grounding

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realization and understanding that, yes, the answer is yes.

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He is so good to me and so good to those I

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love. But my view is very, very small

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compared to his. And so, it takes a it takes a lot

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of faith and it takes a lot of a lot of trust to

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to surrender my plans and my ideas of

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what would be good in my life or in my children's

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lives or, or those around me. And to, to kind

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of give that to God with open hands and say, you know what?

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I know that you know better than I do what is good here.

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So I'm going to surrender my ideas and give them to

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you. I think the word surrender is so powerful because that

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some of it is letting go of the control we actually never have

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had, but we had the illusion of control even if we have

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biological children. And there is no guarantees.

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There's no guarantees in anything in life, and we're not promised an easy

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life. In fact, it says, in this world, we will have troubles.

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But take heart. He's overcome the world, but there's a long suffering.

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There's a big dash in between from when we see

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the ultimate hope that is promised us so

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often in our stories. I've been thinking a lot lately

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about a little phrase I keep hearing, and that is just that

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hard is not the same as bad. And it sounds so simple, but

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it it's exactly that. It's that that prosperity

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gospel that creeps into, especially our Western mindset

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of, you know, our rights and what we're entitled to,

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but hard is not the same as bad. And so when when I

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really internalize that and I view my own life

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and the lives around me, that the people that I'm trying to walk with,

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when I keep that at the forefront, that heart is not the same as

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bad, then I can remove kind of that first

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reactionary trigger response that wants to come as

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soon as I bump into something that feels difficult and uncomfortable and

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hard. If I can remove that first instinct that, oh my goodness,

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something's wrong. This is bad. And instead go, wait a minute.

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Hard is not the same as bad. Hard is sometimes

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exactly where the growth is. And we know this. Right? We

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know this so easily in other other

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parts of our existence, whether that's in Paul's

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example in the Bible was, you know, an athlete training.

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Mhmm. We know that hard work breaks

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about endurance and, what are

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all the things that are listed in in that verse? Are you looking it

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up, Johan? I think you're referring to Romans 5:4. I just looked it up

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here. Endurance produces character, and character produces hope.

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Now this hope does not disappoint us because god's love has been poured out into

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our hearts by the holy spirit who has been given to us.

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Yes. That's it right there. Bingo. And that and

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that's where yeah. That I mean, segueing into hope

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then when out of this suffering, my

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family

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my family and I have been living crisis to crisis. It feels

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like, you know, we just we just barely catch our breath and something

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else happens. And then we've just barely gotten back on our feet or

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we're on our knees and something else happens. And,

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you know, even people around us. You know, I've had so many people people say

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to me, you know, oh, you guys, you just can't catch a break. You know?

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And and it's easy to want to just kind of sink into

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the melancholy and the, I guess, the, the discouragement

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of that and the exhaustion of that. But at the same time, I

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see, I see this truth that heart is not the same as bad. And

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I see in my own heart, this working out of that verse in

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Romans where I'm seeing this character

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that he is producing within my own heart and within

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the hearts of the people around me and and, you know, good things happening

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within my marriage, within my relationships, and even in our

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family when when it feels like everything is fracturing and falling apart.

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God is going about weeding out the yucky, icky

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things that that aren't supposed to be there, but that I

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would never go and pay attention to if I didn't have

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to. Right? So that that's where, like, the hope lies, I

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guess, that God is a good father to me. And he

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will walk me into those hard and messy places in order to

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truly refine me and bring me into that broader,

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greener pasture that he wants me to be able to reside in.

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Yeah. In the good and the hard, God is still

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good. It's not dependent on our circumstances

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if they're good or bad. I think we can honestly say sometimes things are hard,

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and some things are the way they shouldn't be, and yet this is the reality

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that we're all living in. You can fill in the blank. Everybody has their own

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experience that they're they're called to face. And I think it's our

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faithfulness and and just turning to God, not that God is impressed

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by, oh, did you see me now, god? How I responded? I

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really saved the day there. He's not impressed. He he just wants

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our surrender. Right? He just like, I got you, girl.

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I've got you. And and it's not on our just on our behavior that

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we have to win this approval at inner bad situations or

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hard situations that we have to somehow behave

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in an extraordinary way to win that approval of God. We are

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beloved, and he just delights, though, when you,

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Elisha, respond in those hardships, whether there's healing or

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not, whether there's there's reunification or not, whether it's

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restoration or not. But in those hard times, how are you being

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faithful to that? That is where, we can get

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that hope, that only comes from Christ, and

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we let go of some false sense of control in these

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situations. However, I will argue, though, we could, and we

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some I sometimes do. There are some areas that I just wanna

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control, so I'm just not gonna go there. I'm gonna avoid the pain, and, therefore,

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I'm gonna say no to it. That is easy. Like, I think in

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today's society, we very much, prize control

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in having everything, having boundaries, for example, even though God is

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knocking and saying, I'm gonna mess that schedule up. Are you willing to give it

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up? I just had it recently, and it's just like, God, this wasn't part of

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my plans, and yet, God is so faithful.

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I really admire that your faith hasn't really

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been shaken in the midst of this. And, like, I see it evidenced

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even in some of your communications with our Care Impact team. Like, when

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when you're going through those crisis after crisis, we've seen those prayer requests come

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out on the on the chat. You didn't just fold back

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into your little world and try to deal with it on your own, but you're

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really reaching out to people and asking, hey. I really

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need prayer for this because the Lord's the one that needs to intervene, and he's

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the one that's gonna help us through it. So it's evidenced in your life, even

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as you go through the crisis, that you're leaning into him and his goodness.

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Thank you so much for that, Johan. That's really encouraging. And and I

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just, yeah, I just wanna testify that I, I feel like that's

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a very new work in my heart. This, and again, one of those

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things that God has produced and my husband and I were just talking about

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this the other day, the the humility that we are learning

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how to walk with, stay learning because it's,

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knock on wood. We we did a lots of practice with humility,

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but just reaching that place and and being

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able to let go and realize, you know what? Both the

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good and the bad, they're not all on me. You know, it's

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not my story that's being written right now. It's God's

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story that is being written, and he's gonna do what he's gonna

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do. And that I don't have to I don't have to take

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on so much, you know, when it comes to the tough times. I I don't

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have to take it all on and try to white knuckle through it all by

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myself. But then also in the good times, I don't have to

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just hoard that to myself and bring the glory and the

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credit on myself somehow. I can just

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relish the the fact that the truth that I know that this

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was not me. There's no way that I could have brought this about.

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And so I would say that that has brought a lot of freedom

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and joy to our our lives in the last couple years as we've been

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moving from crisis to crisis to crisis and starting

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to to just stay in a, I guess, a a posture

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of learning and humility and growth and

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understanding that, you know what? God's doing a thing here

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and we don't know what it is right now. And we may never know what

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it is, but our job, just like you were saying, Wendy,

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is just about faithfulness. That reminds me of a

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conversation that I had with Kirby a little while ago. And it's just gonna

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stick in my mind forever because you know how sometimes you just have those conversations

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and somebody just helps you have this light bulb moment and you think like,

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oh my goodness. I I don't know how I had it so wrong.

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But I was just really struggling. I was struggling with my own capacity

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limits as a human. I mean, as a mom of 6 kids and and

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the huge age range that we have, I feel pulled

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in so many different directions on any given day. I I feel

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like I'm always letting somebody down. You know, I feel like there's never quite

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enough of me to go around to everyone everywhere. And especially when

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you start adding some special needs and exceptionalities in there that

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just take some extra time and attention. And, and I wish that had more

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to offer them. So I I was just sharing with him how I

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just felt so so burdened and, you know, that I was just

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hitting the ceiling all the time of my capacity limits. And I

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was exhausted and I desperately needed rest, but I also

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felt this this heaviness that I didn't want to somehow

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I wanted to make sure I was being accountable to live up to my

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potential. And I I went on and on

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along this thread. And and finally, I stopped. And and he just looked at

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me and he's like, I I don't understand what you think

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your capacity has to do with

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God and his faithfulness and your faithfulness to him,

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because this is what I was trying to struggle through. What it looked like for

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me to be faithful? That was my question. How do I be

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faithful? And how do I make sure that I'm being faithful? And and

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in that moment, it was just like this light bulb. And, you know, he he

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was just like, it it's not about you. It it doesn't matter how

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hard you try, how hard you strive, how concerned you are

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about reaching your potential. That is not what God is requiring of

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you when he is asking you to be faithful. And

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so I feel like simultaneously to all this, I've been on this

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journey of of learning what it means to abide and learning

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that that is what it means to be faithful. The only thing that

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God requires of me is that I abide in him and become

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this source of the life that he has to offer. Right? And

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there's so much freedom in that when I realize that it's not me. I

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don't I don't have to make sure that I've got it all

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perfect. Instead, I just need to be a

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channel that his lifeblood can run through.

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And thinking about that Vine analogy of just when I'm

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connected to him, there will be fruit on the other end, and it has nothing

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to do with me, but I get to be there. And I get to watch

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it happen, and I get to be a part of it. And that's that's the

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beauty of being a part of his family, right, and a part of his kingdom.

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And there's a underlying deep joy

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even in hardship when you see you're connected to

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the vine, to God, and seeing the fruit that despite

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us in our shortcomings and the things that we cannot

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do or have capacity for. I love that conversation.

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Despite that, God is doing a good thing. I think there's listeners

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right now that are going through fill in the blank hardship.

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Whether they're a mom or they wish they were a mom or they're facing they

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were thrust into a financial or workplace or

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there's so many different crises, not to even mention all the things that

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we see in the news, but sometimes things happen to us. And then

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there's also people listening that have this little niggle, kinda like

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you did when you were getting married about fostering or

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adopting or invitation into that they could actually

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say no and get away with. But they're sitting at the

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precipice of these things, either in crisis or invited into it.

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Can you speak to them in what it looks like just

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to abide in those moments and to trust? What would you say to

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them? Well, I feel like I'm very much still on the

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journey of learning what it means to abide. Like I said, I

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feel like this has just been the last couple of years that that God is

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showing me what it looks like and feels like to walk in,

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in freedom and to walk in this spirit of

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abiding in him. I have had the privilege of working with

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a really impactful Christian counselor who has been

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such a great source of wisdom and, and guidance for

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me as I, as I work out some of these things. And what does this

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look like practically? For me, it's meant

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having the faith to prioritize time in the

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word and time with other believers, even

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when, you know, my my schedule is packed and my life is

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chaotic to believe that my time spent

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with Jesus or my time spent with other Jesus lovers, my

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time spent in worship is going to pour life into

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me even if I can't feel it in the moment. So I think

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that is a big one. And I know I know there are probably a lot

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of moms out there. I know the last thing you wanna hear is another to

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do thing. Right? But I just, I know what it

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feels like to have time with God as a as a

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thing on my to do list. And then I know what it feels like to

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have it as something that I crave

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and look forward to. And it's definitely one of those things that the

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more you do it, the more you crave it. And the more that you

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see the value and the more that you start learning how

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to work that into the little pieces of your day. And I

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let's be clear. Like, I do not I don't rise early. I don't

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spend hours. I I'm not that person. I wake up with my

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kids. I have one of my kids wakes up at 7 o'clock AM every

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single morning. It doesn't matter if it's the weekend or the weekday. He's a very

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scheduled little person. 7 o'clock AM. He's my alarm

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clock. It's time to get up. That's when I get up. I don't get up

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early, but I find time. I use screens

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to occupy my little one so that I can have time with

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Jesus. I go for walks and, you

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know, pray out loud while I'm pushing the stroller. I post

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scripture around the house and I have them in my

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bathroom so that every time I go into the bathroom, I

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see those verses, and it starts to infiltrate every part of

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my day. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I

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have the bible app on my phone, and I look at the verse of the

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day. A week ago, I felt like the verse of the day the

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verse of the day was all I had. It was a crazy week. It was

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all I had. Every day, I had the verse of the day, and that was

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it. But you know what? God was faithful in that. And, honestly, by,

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like, the 4th day, I was, like, opening up the Bible up being like,

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okay, Jesus. What do you have for me today? I'm a little scared because so

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far, the verse of the day in the morning has really given me a pretty

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good tip-off for what I'm gonna need today. And some days that was

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that was just, you know, rejoice and be glad, and other times it was

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like endure through hardship and giving me a heads up. Like, this is gonna be

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a day. You're gonna need this. But it's beautiful. It's beautiful the way that he

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meets us and whatever we bring to him. He is

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faithful to just increase and and

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produce good things in in our hearts and in our minds and

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yeah. So I feel like that's what I'm learning about abiding, that it doesn't doesn't

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have to be big and hard. It's just about being in

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relationship. Right? And it's a bit of that intentionality, right, and

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being creative. God doesn't need us to necessarily spend an hour a day

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in in morning solitude because sometimes that's not our reality. But

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can we seek God while we're breathing? Can we seek God when we're

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doing dishes and taking appointments, responding to urgent

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crisis? Just I did it the other day. Lord, help. That's all

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I had. That's all I had, but god met me in those places. It wasn't

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out of a I should, but, lord, help.

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That's what he used to tell young people when I worked with him in the

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church. It's like, god's not disappointed with the time you didn't spend with

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him. He's excited about that moment that you glance

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towards him. Those small specific moments, he gets

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excited about that. So don't dwell in the time that you didn't spend with him

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and don't mourn over that. Just see his face when you do glance

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towards him. And I don't know about you. That's really good, Johanna. But I'm

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wondering, sometimes my capacity is

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so limited in the the things that I've been thrust into and that God has

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called me to, I really don't even have the words to,

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like, pray a lot. I sometimes I have those go to in my

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community. It takes a village, and and it's just

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like, guys, pray. Where can I turn to? Like,

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you are my people. And so I'm wondering about community,

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and what has that meant to you? Have you experienced

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God in community that they held you when you felt

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like you couldn't do it on your own? Absolutely.

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Yeah. That's been a a huge part of our journey as well. I would

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say right up front that I feel, I feel so

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incredibly blessed with the community that God has brought into

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our lives. And I know a lot of people have to work really

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hard to find and create community. And I will say that I

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feel like that was gifted to us before we

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could even ask. When I look back and I, and I watched the ways

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that God led us, we made a number of church moves

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and we moved outside of the community where we grew up

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in. And all of those pieces, I I just see his hand

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and the way that he was orchestrating the community that we would

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need to be able to to move through, you know, the

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the years where we were living crises to crises. We have a really

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incredible church community who is really authentic, really,

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a safe space where where we can be real and honest with our

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struggles and with the challenges that that our family dynamics can

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bring. But very much, I would say we we've been blessed with so

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many friends and family who they don't look at us with that savior

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mentality. And that's so important to me that they don't look at

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us and say, wow, you know, I could never do what you're doing. They

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see. They they see the ways that we're messing up. They see the ways

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that we are being faithful. They see when

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the outcomes are, you know, as we've prayed for and as we hoped, and they

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see when the outcomes are devastating and painful. And they're

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just there. They're just there to walk it with us and to encourage us

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and to point us to truth when we become discouraged and disillusioned.

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You know, they're there to point us back to God and say, you know, it's

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not about you. It's not about you, and you need to let go of that,

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or this is how you can grow. This is what I see. Again, I'm

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thankful for for the community that God's blessed us with. He's

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placed so many safe people in my life who I can honestly

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go to, and I can say, help me out here. Like, what am I missing?

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Like, how can I how can I do this differently?

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And they can speak into my life and my heart and my approach and and

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same with my kids. You know? Like, I I'm a mama bear. There's not I

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was gonna say there's not too many people that I trust with my kids, but

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but surprisingly, there actually is quite a number of people

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who I trust with my kids' hearts and and their stories and their

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challenges. And and I'm so thankful for that because I know there's a

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lot of really lonely foster and adoptive mommas out there, particularly

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Good. And I am not one of them. Thank you, Jesus. And our

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family has been incredible. Early on, we were

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very young when we first began pursuing adoption and foster care.

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And we had some family members who were very, hesitant to

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kind of jump on board with us, and that was really a discouraging

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time for for me in particular. But it took me a long

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time to realize that they they saw a lot of things that

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I had yet to learn. You know, I was I was young and I was

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naive and I was energetic and I was passionate. And those were

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things that God God knew that he needed to place within me to get

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me to to the start line. But I'm so thankful now. You

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know, those same people who were hesitant at the beginning, Now I'm

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going back to them and I'm saying, I get it now. Like, I I

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get why you were hesitant because you could see such a clearer

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picture than I could. And I'm so grateful that you're willing to still be

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here and support me and walk this with us. And and they were, you

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know, as soon as we were there and we were deciding this is what we're

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going to do, and this is what we feel like God is asking us to

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do, they were a 100% on board. They have never been, you know,

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anything but supportive. But I'm I'm grateful for

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that first experience that we had because now,

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10 years into the journey, it gives them, you know, credibility

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in my own heart when I can look back and realize, oh,

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you saw this coming. And because you were my

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parents or my sibling or, or my aunt or uncle, you know, you you

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wanted to spare me some discomfort and some pain that you knew that I was

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going to bump into, but god had a different plan and a different story.

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And and now you're here, and I I can come to you and I know

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that you were a safe place for me to talk through this and work through

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this hard feeling. And I love it because you still were

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obedient because this was a calling. You went back to those

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people, and sometimes people in good intentions wanna prevent us from having

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that harm, right, or going through hardship. And

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yet both of you, I think, are stretched in that. You they were stretched

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into entering those spaces. And I think this is a message, and

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it sort of embodies what Care Impact is about. That is not

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everybody is called into these exact spaces of fostering or

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adopting or or you name it in in the most hardship of

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hardships. But we're all called to care, and we

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need aunties and uncles and people in our village that

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are called to give or called to give a wise counsel or called in

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different ways that I love calling people in our village saying,

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hey. Do you wanna have a fire tonight? I I just wanna talk. Or

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would you yes. I will say yes to to your help and and being

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vulnerable and saying, you know what? I I need people in our village. And I

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think not everybody is able to the way you

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have. You have had to be vulnerable in saying, you know what?

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I don't have it all together. I do need a village, and I think there's

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a lot we could all learn about being that village

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for the people around us going through hardship.

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We really need each other, and there's a place for everybody to get

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involved. And don't worry about getting your hands dirty. It is

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worth it when we're we're following the way God has called us.

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Well, I know we have to wrap things up pretty soon, but there is a

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a very beautiful lining to this whole story. And the reason

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that you are part of our Care Impact team, the

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academy, the part of the trauma training, I'd love for you to share a

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little bit about your experience and your why to

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why you are dedicating time to train up churches,

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not just the foster and adoptive moms, but churches and

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camps and ministries and and organizations to

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to grow in their capacity to care. Can you talk a little

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bit about trauma care? I would love to talk a little bit

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about trauma care. You may need to shut me down.

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This has become my my passion and my purpose. And,

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again, so grateful that God has brought us

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into a space and community, where we are

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able to learn and be a part of other people's learning

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journeys as well. Early on in our adoption and foster care journey,

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we quickly realized that we did not

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have the resources that we needed in order to parent our

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children well. So early in our journey, we definitely

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just came to a very clear realization that we did not

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have the tools and resources we needed to be able to

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parent our children the way that they needed to be parented and the way

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that we wanted to be able to parent them. And that led us on a

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journey to not only broadening our village

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to include more adoptive and foster families who had gone before us

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and to learn from them, but also to bring in a lot of

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professionals. People who've spent time studying both

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science and scripture and bringing those two things

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together. And that was such a beautiful

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light bulb moment in our journey when we started to understand

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that there are people who have spent time studying

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science, studying how God has created the human body

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and brain and nervous system to work together, but also

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digging into scripture and realizing, like, God knew that all along,

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and he's got plans for this. And there's hope because we we really

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did find that training outside of the church community

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left us feeling a little discouraged and overwhelmed. But when we

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started seeking out training and equipping from believers,

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we found that there was so much hope, and there was so much support

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available. And so what I think that we have

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enjoyed discovering more than anything is just that science

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about neuroscience, in particular, exalts the

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glory of God and the creativity of God and the faithfulness of

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God to always provide a way of healing

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and that he never wants us to stay stuck in those

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place of trauma or grief or destruction,

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but that he has hope available for us. And so that's

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really the why for me behind why I I'm

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involved in trauma care training. And then alongside

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that, living that out as I watch my kids, as I

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live in the the challenges of our family dynamics.

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I'm so passionate about helping people around us understand

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what that looks like and feels like so that they can come alongside

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and support other people. We have been blessed with such an incredible

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village who does that really well, but I know there are so

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many families out there. I hear those families all the time

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who are very lonely, very under supported,

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and very overwhelmed with their reality. And

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I wanna bring them home through all the spaces in their life. I think

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it's important that it's not only, you know, places

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specific to foster care and adoption that are equipped with these

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resources because it's not only foster and adoptive families who

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struggle and who feel the impacts of trauma. I don't have the

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statistics offhand. Come to our course if you wanna hear the statistics.

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But the number of people in Canada

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who have experienced trauma is overwhelming. And

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so I think, you know, as the church, this is our time. This is

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our place. This is the space where we get to rise up and bring

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the good news of the gospel. And that's what trauma care is all

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about for me, is bringing the gospel, bringing hope. I love it. I get a

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bird's eye view from from what you guys are all doing. We have a team

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of of trauma trainers from across Canada. They are professionals and

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practitioners in the daytime. And in evenings and weekends,

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we do a lot of workshops and training. And what I get to see

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is that this growing team of professionals, they light up

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when they're able to share it with with a lot of people, in the

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church and and nonprofit areas and are able to build capacity

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and speak out of their experience. And and you speak out of your own experience.

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It's not just up there neuroscience and out of a textbook and out of the

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Bible. You're living this out, and you're still wrestling seeking

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answers and empowerment. And then on the flip side, I'm also seeing churches empowered saying,

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you know what?

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As a Sunday school teacher or as a pastor or as a leader in this

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nonprofit, suddenly, they have tools, a way to connect with

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some of the most vulnerable and see actually, signs

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of progress and healing and and redemptive stories that we get out of

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man, we could have full episodes, and we will have to, Johan, on

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this. But there's so many examples of how people

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when we know better, we do better. And when we have more

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tools, we see more people feeling safe in our congregations. We

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haven't talked about that. But so often, we need to create that felt

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safety like you are doing within your church community. I'm sure it's

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been a learning journey altogether. Yeah. And I

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love being able to do this, and I'm so humbled to be able to do

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this and that God's given me this opportunity because hear me well. Like,

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I am not getting it all right. I mean, my kids will testify to

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that. They would don't bring them on the podcast. They would love to tell

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you all the ways that I don't get it right. And, I mean, very recently,

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Webb pointed out to me. She's like, you know, mom, you're a trauma care trainer.

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You should know better. I'm like, you're right. I should. But I still get

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it wrong all the time. So it's beautiful to be able to bring the hope.

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And then, like you said, to be able to say, you know what? Like, I

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know this sounds lofty, and this sounds like a really big

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goal, and I get that that's overwhelming, but it's baby steps.

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Right? If you leave a 6 hour training with one

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little tidbit of one thing you're gonna do differently, that's all that

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matters. That's all that matters. It's about growing. It's about when we know

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better, we can do better. And that might just be one baby step at

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a time, but those baby steps can end up making a really big difference

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in the long run. And God is faithful to to take our

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efforts, feeble as they may be sometimes, and

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produce beautiful things. Well, Alicia, I don't

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know how how many podcasts we we've never had a podcast

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guest on wild parenting live in front of the camera.

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And and I've just gotta say, you are practicing it

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literally while we're doing this. It's beautiful to watch. And in your

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humanity, in your vulnerability, you are just shining. I know

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you're not even trying to do this. You're being superhuman and

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super vulnerable, but, also, what I feel is that

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people can relate to you. You're actually a human being that is

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just doing the best you can, being faithful to God. And

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we just as a team here at Care Impact, we love you. We love what

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you bring in that authenticity. I think that's when we can see

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healing and growth. So thank you so much, Alicia,

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for coming on to the podcast even while you're parenting

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and, sharing from your heart. And I love how you're taking those

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scissors away from your child sitting on your lap right now. That's a

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beautiful thing. He keeps going for the scissors. He keeps going for them.

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We do have to have you back on, though, because I know there's so much

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more to your story and so much encouraging words that you can share. Thank you

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so much. You're welcome. Thank you for

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joining another conversation on Journey with Care, where we

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inspire curious Canadians on their path of faith and living

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life with purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative

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of Care Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting and

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equipping the whole church to journey well in community. You can

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visit their website at careimpact. Ca or visit journey with care.

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Ca to get more information on weekly episodes, journey with

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prayer, and details about our upcoming events purpose.

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Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories purpose. Thank you for

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sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the community. Together,

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we can explore ways to journey journey in a good way. And always

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remember to stay curious.

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