October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. We will be doubling up on our episodes to bring you the most comprehensive view of domestic violence possible. To learn more about Domestic Violence you can go to https://www.divorcecoalition.com

Many women endure the agonizing ordeal of toxic relationships in silence, their pain hidden beneath smiles and brave faces. It's a harrowing reality that no one should have to endure alone. You don't have to suffer in silence. Seeking support, confiding in friends and family, and reaching out to professionals can save your life and enable you to get the support you need. You deserve love, respect, and happiness, and there is always a path to safe liberation from toxicity. Your voice and your well-being matter, and there are people ready to stand by your side as you break free from the chains of a harmful relationship. Together, they discuss Victoria's recent experience with a client who tragically lost her life due to an abusive relationship, Victoria's own personal experiences, and the valuable lessons she has learned along the way to shed light on the importance of seeking help and support when faced with toxic relationships.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

●     We have this amazing capacity as women to be mothers, and when we are able to tap into that and raise our children, we are so powerful but when we have unscrupulous actors that activate that fixer mechanism within us, it can be exploited dramatically and it might even end up in your death.

●     When you are in an abusive relationship, you have to be aware of how your biology and love hormones are keeping you there. You are chemically attached to the individual terrorizing your life and you need to go even when your brain says otherwise. 

●     Love bombing works because we feel incredibly heard, seen, and loved, but the moment they have you and have entrapped you, that is when it all goes away and you are left with the shell of a human being and personality disorders.

●     Strangulation is one of the most dangerous behaviors because it’s a range-driven action and is very personal. A lot of people think that if you are strangled you die right then, but you can pass anywhere from a few hours to a few days which enables your perpetrator to get away with this crime.     

●     Never tell your abuser that you are leaving them until you have the support of a domestic violence expert. Friends and family are not trained to help in this dangerous situation.

NOTABLE QUOTES:

●     A lot of us ignore red-flag behaviors in the early stages of the relationship and these behaviors often lead to an abusive relationship. (Victoria)

●     We have to stop jumping from one relationship to another before we even leave the first and learn about ourselves, what motivates us, what attracts us, and what attracted us to that unhealthy marriage because that will be the key to what we will be attracted to again if we don’t do something about it. (Beverly)

●     A lot of times domestic abuse perpetrators are driven by control and the number one mechanism of control in most relationships is money; if you are emotionally dysregulated in your relationships you are going to be emotionally dysregulated in how you use your money. (Victoria)

●     As human beings we want connections, that is the thing we survive and thrive on and it can be so hard to see our actual essence as greater than a relationship that is not serving and is distracting us from who we should be; choosing yourself as a woman is the hardest thing but you deserve it. (Victoria)

●     You should never leave or tell an abuser that you are leaving them without having talked to an expert in domestic violence and particularly having a safety plan because this is when most murders happen. (Beverly)

FURTHER RESOURCES/RELEVANT LINKS:

US Domestic Violence Hotline: 8007997233

ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Victoria Kirilloff, CDFA®, NCPM®, CDS® was at a crossroads; she could not stay married but did not know how to leave. Victoria’s decade-long partnership had far exceeded its expiration date, but they were deeply financially entwined. Searching for a pathway to freedom, Victoria went back to her roots of financial analysis and report writing (which is how she got her first horse). Victoria created the first Divorce Impact Analysis report, which laid out the marital financial facts and different settlement ideas. After a shockingly productive conversation, Victoria and her former partner came to a resolution and peacefully separated. That’s when a lightbulb went off in Victoria’s head! Victoria realized that she could not only help others leave their timed-out marriages but also guide them to becoming financially empowered in the process.

Determined to bring a modern peaceful approach to the divorce process, Victoria founded Divorce Analytics. Divorce Analytics focuses on bringing financial clarity and transparency to the divorce process and illustrates the real-world impact of proposed settlements. By concentrating on the financial facts, Victoria shifts the divorce process from destructive to productive. Victoria recently released an 8-part Divorce Planning Kit and more information can be found at DivorceAnalytics.com/shop.

Victoria is a lifelong learner and spends most of her free time increasing her knowledge base. In addition to being a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® and a Certified Divorce Specialist®, Victoria holds seven other different financial services licenses and designations.

FOLLOW OUR GUEST:

Website: https://www.divorceanalytics.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vkirilloff/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorceanalytics/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MyDivorceAnalytics

ABOUT YOUR HOST:

Beverly Price is the empowering divorce coach who guides women on their journey before, during, and after divorce to eliminate pain, overwhelm, sadness, and anger and create more knowledge, skill, and peace that she experienced herself. In her 30 years of divorce coaching experience she has help thousands of women move through divorce, fully prepared with skills that enhance the results of their divorce process.

Remember, divorce doesn’t have to be a death sentence. With the right support and guidance, you can move through the process with knowledge, skills, and confidence. If you’d like to schedule a complimentary private consultation, reach out to Beverly at: 

https://Beverly-Price.as.me/ConsultationCall

CONTACT YOUR HOST:

Website: http://www.herempowereddivorce.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/her_empowered_divorce

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/herempowereddivorce/

Facebook Group: Her Empowered Divorce Tribe: https://www.facebook.com/groups/herempowereddivorcetribe

Visit https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/her-empowered-divorce/id1635143315 to access the entire archive of Her Empowered Divorce episodes, and while you’re there, please subscribe, rate, and review our show! 

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A Warm Shoutout To Our Amazing Sponsor: SOBERLINK

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🌟 Special Highlight:

Have you discovered the "Divorce & Beyond" podcast with Susan Guthrie yet? With over 30 years as a leading family law attorney and mediator, Susan combines her wealth of expert insights with advice from the nation's top divorce specialists. Whether you're navigating the tumultuous currents of divorce or looking to thrive in your radiant BEYOND, "Divorce & Beyond" is your companion for the journey. Dive deeper and let Susan guide you to a brighter tomorrow. Listen to "Divorce & Beyond" wherever you enjoy your podcasts or on the website https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, and step into your beautiful BEYOND. 🌟

 🔊 Check Out the Divorce Coalition🎉

I'm proud to share that I am now a part of The Divorce Coalition, a united front aiming to "Break the Silence. Break the Cycle." Our mission is to bring understanding, healing, and resilience to the forefront, ending the cycle of abuse one survivor at a time.

🔗 We're here to bridge the gap between silence and strength. Through education and awareness, we aim to enlighten legal experts and uplift survivors, ensuring safer homes for all.

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Let's come together, break the silence, and champion a brighter future! #divorcecoalitioni#breakthesilencel#breakthecycleCycle 

Hi, beautiful. I am so glad you're here with me today. I have a very special guest. Her name is Victoria Karloff. Victoria is a financial whiz, a financial strategist, a divorce strategist, a certified divorce financial analyst, and has so many more acronyms after her name, I can't count them all. She's the founder of a company called Divorce Analytics.

When we first started talking about Victoria being a guest on the podcast, we wanted to talk about, um, financial abuse and the things that happen within finances in a divorce.

But something has recently happened in Victoria's life that is so impactful and so profound that I wanna throw our plans out the window and let her talk to me and to you about what she's recently experienced. So without further ado, Victoria, I am so glad you're here with me today and I feel so honored that you would open up to me about this.

Thank you for having me Beverly. It's a pleasure to be here. I wish we had anything else to talk about today, but unfortunately, I recently lost a client and she was so much more than that.

I led her through her first divorce and I was the financial neutral. She had a toxic relationship that was financially and emotionally abusive in nature.

and she was really concerned about managing her own money. She made more money than she knew what to do with. And one of her most amazing traits was to get herself into a lot of trouble and then she would get a $50,000 distribution the next month and wipe all of her sins away. She was just a phenomenal woman. But unfortunately, and this is where her story turns quite morose, she fell in with...

Mm.

Her second partner, who turned out to not only be physically, well, not only was financially, emotionally, and psychologically abusive, he was also physically. And unfortunately, she was in the process of leaving him.

and that was something he decided was unacceptable. So he took her life. And I can't tell you the whole that it has been left, and not only her family's heart, but everyone that came in contact with her.

And it has been so hard for a lot of people who are not familiar with domestic violence to reconcile this woman who was a big badass, you know, a business tycoon, with this woman that couldn't, that was being abused in her home life. And this is so common. And unfortunately...

Mm-hmm. It is.

I have had a highly abusive relationship and that's how I found my company. I call him Voldemort. My relationship with him started off all sunny and great when I was 20, but by the time I had started to raise in the corporate ranks and make my own money, he...

grew more and more physically abusive, and I had no idea how to actually leave my relationship. Even though I was the moneymaker, just like my client, there was so much psychological abuse, I had bars on the window, and I had to figure out how I could get through them in order to reclaim my life. I realized that one day, it was either going to be him or me.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

and I don't look good in orange. And so I had to, it sounds so corny, but I wrote a financial report, like my papa told me how to do when I was eight years old, how to get a horse. I mean, that's kind of like my claim to fame. I was buttoning my dad all my childhood for a pony, and he finally said, ah, kid, let me show you how to do a life cycle cost analysis so we could figure out the actual cost of the horse.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Um, and I did that and I'm happy to say that I did get the horse. So my dad taught me that if it cannot be expressed in numbers, it cannot be expressed at all. Now he was a nuclear engineer and so that made sense in his world. Yeah.

So was my dad. That's right, yeah. My dad was too, yeah.

We are, we are cut from the same cloth, Beverly. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, two peas in a pod. And I experienced domestic violence myself, unfortunately, more than once. So I'm feeling this very deeply with you, Victoria.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, it's...

So what would you say, I think I shared a statistic with you and I'm not sure if because I'm a survivor, if that's why I'm so passionate about domestic violence or if it's because I think that it is so sad that humanity.

is at that level and particularly that it's not recognized and addressed any more than it is. But the statistic that was presented to me was that 70% of women who leave their abusers are murdered and that to me shakes me to my core. A lot of people will say when they hear that number, oh that can't be true, but it can.

Yes.

And you have certainly seen firsthand that it can be true. So what do you think, in my case,

And it's truly...

I went from one abusive relationship to the next without learning from it and without doing any work on myself to become whole. What is your takeaway from her relationship with this person?

Mm-hmm.

Well, we have this amazing capacity as women to be mothers. And when we are able to tap into that and raise our children, we are so powerful, there's nothing stronger. But when you have an unscrupulous actor that activates that fixer mechanism within us, it can be exploited dramatically. And it might even end up in your death.

Mm-hmm.

Something I read a few years ago is that if you're a CEO and if you're looking to exploit a population, the population you want to go after is women of childbearing age because they are designed evolutionarily to protect the infant. So at the end of the day, they're going to go above and beyond to reduce and to manage that conflict in order to protect the baby. So when you

Right.

Mm-hmm.

are in an abusive relationship, you have to be aware of how your biology is keeping you there. And then you also add in that wonderful cocktail of love hormones, including oxytocin, and you are chemically bonded to this individual that is terrorizing your life. And it feels like you are absolutely losing everything, and your brain is saying, stay with them, even though...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

all your other senses are saying, you need to go. And so it can be very daunting, especially when you're used to dealing with high levels of conflict in your day job, to walk away from a situation. And in her case, she was an amazing attorney. I mean, she was a phenomenal woman. And she argued in front of the Supreme Court.

Right.

Yes.

she defended her people, and there wasn't a predator she didn't think she could take. And unfortunately, I think, yeah.

It was her own, yeah. That is so terrible. I think that they've also done some studies that say that domestic abusers also tend to have a high percentage of personality disorders. So if you think about...

Oh yes.

For example, in my case, what they call love-bombing. That they bring you the flowers and the candy and they take you to dinner and they whisper sweet nothings in your ear and they put their arm around you. And they give you everything that you think you need. And then in my case, the day after we got married, everything changed. It was a 180.

Mm-hmm.

and that was because he got me. He had me. And so I think some of this plays into your friend's situation as well. We can be enticed into it. Then you've got what you said, that loving spirit. We get locked into love and then how do we get out?

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

and then we get beaten down so low there's no self-esteem for us to do something about it. So I'm I can so understand that.

Mm-hmm. Well, and I think one thing I have realized, a lot of us ignore red flag behaviors in the early stages of the relationship. And in my situation, Voldemort didn't start off hurting me. There was a long, there was a five-year lead-up into the actual physical abuse.

Mm-hmm.

Very much so.

Mm-hmm.

but the red flags were there from the very beginning. And I, either I was too young, too naive, or I just didn't realize that these behaviors were going to, like, they were going to lead to his abusing me. And the love bombing, man, when love bombing works because you feel so incredibly seen and heard and loved.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But the moment that they have you, the moment that they've entrapped you, that's when it all goes away and you are left with the shell of a human being.

Right.

and the personality disorders. Unfortunately, I kind of, I have a black belt in the dark triad at this point. I mean, I was able to leave Voldemort through mathematics because at the end of the day, a lot of these behaviors, a lot of these perpetrators are driven by control. And the number one mechanism of control in most relationships is money. So-

Hehehehe

Mmm fascinating

You need to... Well, money affords you...

So do you are you saying buy him off or explain that a little bit more?

Well, I'm not necessarily... Well, you need to understand how they're motivated. And so money is generally... You can find out a lot about somebody and how they use their money. And if you are emotionally dysregulated in your relationships, you're going to be emotionally dysregulated in how you use your money. And it's a direct correlation if you...

Okay.

Okay.

don't know how to navigate those uncomfortable emotions, you're probably more predispossessed to go out and engage in emotional spending, engage in a little too much imbibbing, whatever your poison is, and that costs money. And every single abuse case that I have been on, there has been some level of alcoholism or drug use. And this is true in my client and...

Gotcha.

Mm-hmm.

very good friend. I don't even know what to exactly call her because she was so much more than a client. She was like my sister and in their relationship it had gotten to the point where

She was trying to placate him. The abuse had gotten so bad that the only way she knew how to placate him was by diverting his attention. And she made enough money that she could, I don't wanna say buy him off by any means, but she could say, here's the money, leave me alone. Yeah, please, please give me a little space. And this guy just used her and he left her in such a horrible position.

Mm-hmm.

buy him things. Yeah.

Right.

Um, I mean, there's a lot of mental illness on his end and there's a lot of drug use on his end as well. And I feel for her. I understand what it's like to be unable, well, you don't know how to move forward and you don't know really how to do anything other than just exist, how to survive. And a lot of the times it's easier to sacrifice money than it is to sacrifice yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a lot of times I have noticed a lot of these women that are making more money than men, they sacrifice their financial future and sometimes they sacrifice so much more.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that there's the concept of men feeling emasculated when women earn more or might have a more prestigious position that then threatens them. And I think we know that when threatened.

Mm-hmm.

a human being's natural position is to kind of kind of lash back and unfortunately there is the type of person that will lash back and create great harm and death and doesn't seem to be able to have any empathy about it until

Yeah.

they're threatened with death themselves. I've often wondered, I guess this is a little bit off topic, but if you ever watch something where a murder is about to be sentenced and they're very calm and somewhat cocky, until they find out they're gonna get the death penalty, and then they start crying. And they didn't cry for their victim, they just cry for themselves. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm. Yeah. And one of the most.

I'm very glad that I have a psychological landscape that has enabled me to deal with the perpetrator. Unfortunately, my friend's situation is such that he made it look like suicide. And this guy has a 20 year history of strangling women. And if anybody would know how to get away with this crime, it would be him. And so.

No.

and there's nothing the police can do.

Well, the police, um...

The police have been completely unhelpful, and they're still conducting their investigation, but they keep coming back to the fact that she didn't have enough defensive wounds, specifically that her fingernails were intact. And when I saw her...

But that can be part of the strategy of the abuser.

Yeah. So this is precisely, and if you have a 20-year history of attacking women and getting, you know, for the most part, getting away with it, you've probably learned. And that is the most disgusting thing.

Oh absolutely, it's like, hit me where it's not gonna show. Never hit my face, but hit my arms or my body, and then it will be hidden by clothes. That's just disgusting. That's absolutely disgusting.

Yeah.

Yep. It is. And it truly is.

unfortunately because this gentleman is still at large, and I really shouldn't call him a gentleman, but my grandmother and mother would frown on me calling him what I really feel online.

Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

I have been in the position to help the family navigate this transition because what is left is her very elderly parents and young children. And

Ugh.

Thankfully she was never, she never married him, but he still had to be handled and his belongings had to get out of the house and I had to interact with this guy. And I have never truly experienced real evil like this. I mean Voldemort was bad, but Voldemort wasn't a murderer. But this guy...

Mm-hmm.

All right.

It sounds like he has a long history as well.

Yeah.

He does, and it makes it even more shocking that the police are not caring. And so it comes down to having a plan, because at the end of the day, my dear friend had all of the resources in place, but she didn't know how to ask for help, and she didn't understand exactly how dangerous he was.

And it's because our stupid hormones, those silly hormones, they just run rampant. And she had a baby with him. And so she was so concerned about protecting the baby and taking care of the baby that he played on that. And she needed to ask for support. There are, you know, the system isn't going to save you. And if you're dealing with an abusive relationship,

Right.

you can get a protection order, but they really... Yeah. I mean, so what that actually boils down to is you need the protection order to be filed, and then he needs to commit a crime, and then the police need to come and capture him during this time. And the police are not well-funded these days for a variety of reasons. A lot of our police departments are running at anywhere from, I don't know...

don't depend on that.

85% down in LA or in San Francisco, they have 50% of the police force that they should have. So what that means is that crimes against women are not given the time, effort or energy they should. And

Well, let's also think about that historically. Since the caveman days, women have been placed in a subservient...

Yes.

less powerful position than men. Men went out of the caves and hunted, and women were supposed to take care of the food. As time went on, women were the ones to raise the children, to teach them. The men went out, and on and on and on, and so it's been bred into us that we are less than.

Mm-hmm.

even thinking about what you do for a living. I think many women have been told they aren't good with math, they aren't good with numbers, they can't handle it, and so that ends up with financial abuse and divorce and many other things. But the bottom line is, this has been passed down from generation. It is not just passed down by men, it is passed down by women.

Yeah.

It's time for us to break that chain.

You know, I have an argument with my husband frequently about, you know, male behavior, and that a man who stands by and watches it is almost as guilty as the one that committed it, who doesn't do anything about it. And I'm no longer willing to wait on men to do something about it.

Mm-hmm.

I think we need to do something about it. I think you're doing something about it by talking about it. And I am so proud of you for doing this.

Well, I'm not brave. I just don't want to see her life end in such tragedy. And we are all, well, the one thing I have been so amazed by is how many women have come up to me throughout these last few weeks and said, Victoria, I was strangled too.

Mm-hmm.

And I was also strangled and you know, strangulation is one of the most dangerous behaviors there is because it is a rage-driven action. You have to... yes. And...

and very personal, very personal.

it, a lot of people think that when you're, like, if you're strangled, you die right then. Well, you can actually experience enough damage to your airway that you pass anywhere from a few hours to a few days after. And it enables your perpetrator to get away with this crime. And...

Right.

Right.

So many people would look at our lives and say, oh, she has it all together. She has a beautiful family. She has a great house, everything all put together. Well, on the inside, you know, I was suffering from a highly abusive relationship just as she was. And to break that facade can almost seem like...

Mm-hmm.

Well, it can seem unsurmountable, and it seems like, well, when it's inside, you can kind of forget about it. At least that was my situation with Voldemort. I would just work really hard to forget whatever happened the night before. And... Yeah, pretend.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. And pretend. Pretend it didn't. So if we go back then, one of the things I'm thinking about is a lesson that I learned in my cases of running from one to the other and being attracted to the same type. And it came from my lack of self-worth, lack of self-esteem, my

Mm-hmm.

need for attention to be okay. And so I found that in the love bombing concept, I got that. And then when I got married, everything changed.

And then we'd get divorced. And rather than taking the time to learn about my lack of self-worth, lack of self-esteem, I jumped to the next person that handed me flowers, and on and on. And what would I recommend to all my clients?

Yes.

some listen, some don't, is that we have to stop jumping from one relationship to another or even jumping to another before we've even left the first. And we need to learn about ourselves what motivates us, what attracts us, what attracted us to that unhealthy marriage. Because that's going to be the key of what we will be attracted to again if we don't do something about it.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, so true. And I mean, I can kind of speak to this. I, um, oh, goodness, I

I liked Voldemort because he reminded me of my relationship with my mom in some ways. My mom was very emotionally distant. She loved me in her own way, but my mom had her own mental concerns that she was working through and she had postpartum psychosis after I was born that went untreated. So I was used to growing up in a highly chaotic household with not a lot of validation or really acknowledgement.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Wow.

I found Voldemort and he kind of reminded me of my dad because he was an engineer. But then he also triggered all of those childhood issues that I had with my mama. And after I left him, I went into a lot of therapy. And not too long ago, well about a year ago, I felt that I had found Mr. Right. But I realized, unfortunately...

Right.

Oh, it sucks to say out loud. Um, he was Voldemort number two and he didn't get physically abusive or anything like that, but he demonstrated that he had an inability to control his emotions during times of, well, not necessarily conflict, but of discussion. And one thing he did in particular that I found to be shocking, because up until this point he was just a nice little, um...

Hahaha!

Yes.

nice little bookish nerd, he could not control himself when it came to emotional expression when it came to me. And so we had a disagreement and he slapped the air in front of me and I said, oh, nobody, like even though you did not hit me, it's a very short step between smacking the air in front of me and smacking me. And

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right.

But do you understand how far you came by being able to see that? That is growth, my dear. That is strength.

Well, I appreciate you saying that because my brain, after I left him, it was just begging me to go back to him. And I literally felt like my body belonged to him. And it was so hard to... I have all of this knowledge. I lost my friend to domestic violence. I come from a domestic violence background. And still...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

my brain was like, well, maybe we could make it work if he goes to counseling. You know, that's, we are so, as human beings, we want connection. That is the thing we survive and thrive on. And it can be so hard to say my time or my human being, my actual essence is greater than this relationship.

Mm-hmm.

It is not going to serve me if anything, it is detracting from who I should be. And to make that choice as women, it's so challenging. I mean, our entire lives we have been taught to be a good girl and to smile through it all, to don't ask questions, to sit in the corner and to put on a good show. And to actually choose myself, it's the hardest thing to do. Oh, thank you. I mean.

Right.

I applaud you. Well, there is such, there is such, you think about it, there is so much shame when it comes to divorce and to domestic violence. It is the kind of thing you want to crawl under a rock and not let anybody know. And on top of that,

Absolutely.

Let's say you're a professional woman, a successful executive with an MBA. You earn over a hundred thousand dollars a year. You have a nice car. You have a nice house. And what is the thing you're going to say to yourself? I should have known better. I'm smarter than this. And the shame quadruples to that professional woman. And yet there's so many of us.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

that it happens to, that it's time to get it out in the open and say there's nothing to be ashamed about. This does not mean you're stupid. This does not mean you don't know any better. It's time for a change and it's time for a change in all of us to help each other.

Victoria, I want to thank you so much for being with me today. I know that this was a painful story for you to share, but I admire you so much for having the guts to be able to do that and do that with me. I feel very honored.

Well, thank you for creating the opportunity to do this. So many of us suffer in silence, and we don't need to. There is so many ways to support one another. All you need to do is to tell somebody that you are suffering from a toxic relationship and you don't know how to get out. Asking, making one phone call or telling one person could actually save your life. And you are worth it.

It's all right.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yes.

Absolutely.

get help at your local domestic violence shelter. But never, never tell your abuser you are leaving them until you have the support of a domestic violence expert. Friends and family mean well, but they are not trained to help in this dangerous situation.

Now one of the things we were going to talk about today was how talented Victoria is in finding financial abuse and analyzing financial data in divorce. And I want you to know that she is incredibly talented in that. And this subject.

raises her up in my eyes even more that she would be able to share. So you'll be able to find out all of the information about what we've talked about and also about her financial experience and what she has to offer. You'll be able to find them at herempoweredivorce.com on my podcast page or on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can even watch the video version on our YouTube channel,

divorce. I want to thank you so much for being with us today. We hope you've learned a lot from this talk and I want you to take care and stay empowered.