You checked all the boxes. Got the degrees, the marriage, the house, the career. Everything looked exactly as it should. So why did something still feel missing?

In this episode, Erica talks with Katie Farinas, former labor and delivery nurse turned yoga teacher and life coach, about what happens when your body finally stops letting you ignore what you've been pushing down.

They dig into the quiet grief of midlife that doesn't have a name, what dharma actually means and why "purpose" gets so tangled, and how to reconnect with something greater than yourself when the religion you grew up with never quite fit.

Katie also shares her own episode on exactly that: The G Word: How to Reconnect with God in Midlife.

Find Katie at:

• Midlife Spirituality Project Podcast: https://pod.link/1698844006
• Substack: https://katiefarinas.substack.com/
• Website: katiefarinas.com

* AI Transparency note: AI assisted in writing the show notes

---

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Do you ever plan how things are going to go, and then

2

something happens, and it turns

out to be more beautiful and juicy

3

than you could have ever expected?

4

That's what happened in my

conversation with Katie Farinas.

5

I will be honest, I had a whole set

of questions prepared for her, and

6

then we started talking, and the

questions I prepared did not really

7

fit the conversation as it evolved,

and time seemed to completely

8

disappear as we were talking.

9

Hi, I'm Erica Voell, and I want to

welcome you to the Unfolding Podcast.

10

I'm a human design guide for women in

midlife, and my work is about helping you

11

connect the dots of how you are designed

so that you can see the whole picture

12

of yourself and your relationships, and

understand why you may need a few days

13

to make a decision that you won't regret,

but your partner seems to know almost

14

instantly, or maybe it's the reverse.

15

Or why you keep overthinking and replaying

the same conversation in your mind, or why

16

your kid needs some downtime after school.

17

It's all connected.

18

My clients tell me so often, "This

all makes so much sense, and I see

19

that there's nothing wrong with me."

20

If you're new here, welcome, and if

you enjoy the show, I want to invite

21

you to subscribe and follow me on

Substack at ericavoell.com/connect.

22

That's E-R-I-C-A, V as in

Victor, O-E-L-L.com/connect.

23

That's Erica Voell, E-R-I-C-A, V

as in Victor, O-E-L-L.com/connect.

24

My guest today is Katie Farinas.

25

She is a former labor and delivery

nurse turned yoga teacher, life

26

coach, and the host of the Midlife

Spirituality Project Podcast.

27

Her story stopped me in

a way I did not expect.

28

I had chills during this episode.

29

I stumbled over my words at one

point because I didn't quite know

30

what to say, and I just followed

the breadcrumbs of this conversation

31

and let it go where it wanted to go.

32

It was so beautiful.

33

We talked about dharma and purpose.

34

She talks about what dharma actually

is, about the grief that shows up in

35

midlife, and what it means to reconnect

with something greater than yourself,

36

whether you call it God, source,

universe, or something else entirely.

37

This one's gonna stay with me for a while.

38

I think it will stay with you, too.

39

So let's get to the episode.

40

Katie, welcome to the Unfolding Podcast.

41

I am so excited that you are here today

42

Katie Farinas: Thank you, Erica.

43

Thank you so much for having me.

44

I'm excited to be here

and have this conversation

45

Erica Voell: So you have a really

interesting story about your path to where

46

you are now, and I think it's one that so

many women in midlife will identify with.

47

And so tell us about your story, and

tell us about you and what you do

48

Katie Farinas: So, um, I'll

start with the, what I do.

49

That's the easier part of the story.

50

Um, I am a former nurse who

has turned to a yoga teacher

51

and a coach for midlife women.

52

And I like to qualify the term yoga

teacher for, because a lot of people

53

think, oh, you go into a yoga studio

and you teach a yoga class, which I do.

54

That is part of what I do.

55

But I am really a spiritual guide,

so I use the entire system, the

56

integrated system of yoga, to guide

midlife women home to themselves.

57

And that means I use the philosophy,

the, um, meditative practices, the

58

breathwork, the movement, um, all to

help women come home to their bodies,

59

come home to their intuition or their

hearts, come home to their purpose,

60

which w- in yoga we call dharma, uh, to

unravel the patterns that are not working

61

for them anymore in their lives, and

to rediscover who they are now in this

62

phase of life and what they really want.

63

And there's a big piece in there I didn't

mention, which is the connection p- piece.

64

So reconnecting to, um, self, reconnecting

to, um, nature, reconnecting to

65

source, whatever that means for you,

and reconnecting to others who are

66

in alignment with who you are now

67

Erica Voell: Hmm.

68

So what brought you to yoga

from labor and delivery nurse?

69

That's what I find so

70

Katie Farinas: Yes.

71

Yes.

72

Yes

73

Erica Voell: it was not a straight line.

74

It was probably not like a, "I'm doing

this, and this is n- my next step."

75

Katie Farinas: No, it was

absolutely not a straight line.

76

And my entire arc, I would say, was

an arc of connection to disconnection

77

and breakdown to reconnection.

78

So when I was very young, I felt

super connected to what I called God.

79

Um, and I still use that terminology,

but I'm comfortable with all words that

80

mean, have that same meaning, divine,

source, light, consciousness, whatever,

81

whatever, insert what works for you.

82

Um, I felt that connection very,

very strong within me and around me.

83

And then life did what life does, right?

84

Life told me who to be and how

to be and what to be, and that

85

was very, um, in- inauthentic.

86

It didn't…

87

It felt always like a rub.

88

It did not feel like who I truly

was, but, but I kind of shoved down

89

who I really was, and that made

me lose my connection with source.

90

But then I went on, and I

checked all the cultural boxes.

91

I got a couple of degrees.

92

I got married.

93

I bought a house.

94

I had some children.

95

Uh, I started off on my career, and

all the while, I had this feeling

96

like I really, I wasn't on the mark.

97

I was somehow adjacent to who I was and

what I was really meant to be doing here.

98

And from the outside,

everything looked perfect.

99

It looked exactly as it should.

100

But on the inside, it just felt like

something was missing And I had lost

101

that connection to source, and I had

lost my connection to my intuition.

102

So I didn't really need…

103

I didn't know how to get back.

104

I just felt there was something wrong,

but I didn't know what to do about that.

105

And I felt guilty because I

thought, "Well, I have everything.

106

I have everything.

107

All the hallmarks of a beautiful

life I have, so why do I feel

108

so unsatisfied, unfulfilled,

and like my life lacks meaning?"

109

And then after the birth of my second

child, I wound up becoming very,

110

very sick with chronic migraine.

111

Kind of came out of nowhere.

112

I had had some migraines in the

past, but really nothing that

113

disrupted my life in any way.

114

And then all of the sudden, I was so ill

that I couldn't take care of my children.

115

I couldn't go to work.

116

Uh, I…

117

It was a very, very dark period

of life, and I did all the things

118

that you would naturally think to

do of when you become very sick.

119

I started going to doctors, trying to

get answers, trying lots of treatments.

120

I went outside of the standard

medical community to things like

121

acupuncture and functional medicine and

chiropractic and so on and so forth.

122

But I wasn't getting any answers,

and I wasn't getting any better.

123

And I really reached a breaking

point where I thought, felt I c-

124

I can't live like this anymore.

125

I…

126

Is if this is the rest of my

life, then I don't want to live.

127

And that was really very scary for

myself, but also for my children,

128

who were very young at the time.

129

I think they were probably about either

six and one, seven and two, somewhere,

130

somewhere in that range And after

years and years and years of not being

131

connected to my intuition and not even

knowing what an intuitive thought or

132

feeling felt like or sounded like,

I got this very strong voice come

133

into my head that said, "Go to yoga."

134

Now, yoga was something I had

practiced throughout my tw- I'm

135

mid-30s now, mid to late 30s.

136

I had started practicing in my early 20s.

137

It was just a form of exercise to me.

138

I was always a very physical person,

so involved in lots of sports and lots

139

of different forms of working out.

140

Yoga was just another, another

one of them and nothing more.

141

And at the time, being so ill, of

course, I wasn't doing anything physical.

142

Uh, and I…

143

This voice just kept coming

in, "Go to yoga, go to yoga."

144

And I remember thinking, "Well,

what am I gonna do there?

145

I can't…

146

I certainly cannot get into a downward

dog and let blood rush to my head."

147

Erica Voell: Ja.

148

Katie Farinas: But it was insistent.

149

This voice was insistent, and it

was loud, and I was desperate.

150

And so I did.

151

I went to yoga.

152

And I thought, "Okay, well,

I'll do whatever I can do."

153

And I was very lucky, 'cause not all

yoga studios are like this, but the

154

yoga studio that I was guided to and

happened to be land, happened to land

155

in was this beautiful expression of

the true essence of yoga, which is love

156

and compassion and service And truth.

157

And so there was no expectation

that I would follow the

158

cues that the teacher gave.

159

If I wanted to lay in Shavasana for

the entire 60 minutes, no one said

160

a word to me, no one batted an eye,

um, they just kind of saw it and was

161

like, "That's what she needs, and

that's what we're gonna give her.

162

We're gonna give her the space

to lay there for 60 minutes."

163

And so, I, this is what I did.

164

I kept showing up.

165

And sometimes I'd be able to do a

little stretch here and a little stretch

166

there, but to be quite honest, a-

honest, a lot of the time, I laid there.

167

And for whatever reason, I think partially

the safe space, and I also think this

168

is where y- at the beginning of a yoga

class, many teachers give what's called

169

a Dharma talk, and that is just a little

snippet of the vast, vast bucket of,

170

of philosophy that comes with yoga.

171

And so the teacher will pick some tiny

little piece of that and weave it into the

172

class, and then she'll give a little talk

a lot of times at the start of the class,

173

and then weave that concept throughout

the entire cla- 60 minutes until the end.

174

And those talks started getting in.

175

So I'd already been going to yoga

somewhere between 15 to 20 years,

176

and those talks had been being

given for 15 to 20 years, but

177

they d- had not been sinking in.

178

But it was in that moment of desperation

when I was brought to my knees, when

179

everything that I thought I was,

what- everything I thought made me me,

180

Erica Voell: Uhum

181

Katie Farinas: couldn't be anymore.

182

I couldn't be the athlete, I couldn't

be the nurse, I couldn't be the parent,

183

I couldn't be the one that takes

care of everybody and everything.

184

I couldn't really even be a wife.

185

Like I, I, my entire identity had been

brought to its knees because I was

186

too ill to play those roles anymore.

187

And so it was finally in the breakdown

of all of those roles that that

188

wisdom started to be able to seep in.

189

So between hearing the wisdom and hearing

it in the safe, loving container- I

190

would leave the class feeling like

there was just a little bit of light.

191

Like, everything felt so dark.

192

It was such a dark, dark time in my life.

193

And I couldn't…

194

I was like I was groping in the dark.

195

I couldn't find my way out.

196

I couldn't even tell which end was up.

197

I don't even know which direction

to crawl in, it's so dark in here.

198

And I would leave those classes feeling

like someone had cracked a window, and I

199

could see a direction in which I could go.

200

And that was enough for me to be

like, "Okay, maybe I can stay.

201

Maybe I can make this life work

regardless of what it looks like and of

202

the fact that it looks very different

than what it looked like before or what

203

I would prefer for it to look like."

204

And that was the beginning of my journey.

205

And I went deeper and

deeper into the practice.

206

And I, I was able to get my

migraines under enough control that

207

I could return to work, return to

parenting my children, return to

208

being overall f- fairly physical.

209

I still have chronic migraine.

210

I still get three to

four migraines a week.

211

Like, this is still a very, uh, present

problem in my life, if you wanna

212

call it that, quote unquote problem.

213

It's very present in my existence.

214

Uh, but I have been able

to reintegrate into life.

215

And so I went back to doing the

things to, you know, to working and to

216

parenting my children and to keeping

a household and all the things that we

217

do But I, I kept with these practices.

218

I kept going to yoga.

219

I kept, you know, doing the meditating.

220

I became a daily meditator, and

breathwork, and reading the philosophy.

221

Uh, and at one point I thought, "Oh,

I really wanna deepen it even further.

222

I guess I'll get a certification.

223

I don't really plan on teaching.

224

I really just want the

knowledge for myself."

225

And it was around that time that

life threw me another curveball.

226

So this is what life likes to do, right?

227

Life's like, "Oh, wait, you

didn't get the full lesson.

228

Sorry.

229

Here comes another."

230

So around that time, my daughter wound up

transitioning from a completely healthy,

231

normal child from what I could tell.

232

She seemed happy.

233

She went to school every day.

234

She had friends.

235

Like, all the harmar- hallmarks

of a normal, happy child, to a

236

severely depressed child with a

host of physical problems that no

237

one was really able to figure out.

238

They couldn't understand why she

was experiencing everything she was.

239

So she wound up developing migraine.

240

She also had pervasive body-wide pain,

uh, particularly in her knees and

241

her back and her hips, but even into

her fingers, sometimes in her toes.

242

Um, she was diagnosed with severe

OCD, anxiety, depression, and it was,

243

it was like she went over a cliff.

244

It felt like one day she was

fine, and the next we just

245

couldn't understand what happened.

246

Now, we wound up learning that she

really was suffering from OCD for

247

many years that we didn't know about.

248

Um, OCD is a very tricky

disorder, and it can hide.

249

It is not always what you think of,

like people constantly washing their

250

hands or checking if doors are locked.

251

It can be a very, i- only, it

can exist really only inside the

252

mind, which a lot of hers was.

253

The majority of hers was.

254

And for, because she had it for so

many years and never told anyone and

255

was cons- constantly kind of fighting

it and battling it- That led to severe

256

anxiety and then depression 'cause she

257

couldn't get herself out of the anxiety.

258

And so she became suicidal.

259

And we had been taking her to various

doctors for all the physical symptoms

260

she was experiencing, GI symptoms,

the headaches, the body pain, as well

261

as therapists, uh, psychiatrists,

alternative medicine practitioners.

262

Okay, so this went on also for years.

263

So as a parent, this is

extremely challenging.

264

So I had finally come out of my own

hole, and I was finally getting to

265

the place where I was like, "Okay,

I'm just gonna get back to normal.

266

I'm gonna get on with life.

267

I'm gonna get back to checking the

boxes and living the way society expects

268

me to live," when God decided that I

needed to wake up a little bit more.

269

And so now this has entered my life.

270

And through that process, through

both of those processes, I comed-

271

I came to understand what was

missing and why I was really here

272

and what I was really meant to do.

273

And that is how I left, left nursing.

274

That is why I left nursing.

275

It really was through this process

of fully breaking down and then

276

finally saying, "Oh, I see now.

277

I see what I couldn't see before."

278

It's, it's all be- It's…

279

It was so blurry.

280

It was so out of focus, and now it's

so crystal clear what my purpose

281

is here and what I'm meant to

do, and that's how I left nursing

282

Erica Voell: Oh my gosh.

283

I you know, like the guest starts to cry.

284

Katie Farinas: Yeah

285

Erica Voell: I'm like, oh my God, Katie,

I'm just tearing up listening to you talk.

286

Um, and I, d- have been through

my own physical things and

287

chronic things, and story just

is resonating so deeply with me.

288

And,

289

it's of those things that you don't

know, like you hear about people who

290

have chronic illnesses, and sometimes

you're just like Other people will say,

291

you know, "Just, just try this, just

292

Katie Farinas: Yes.

293

Erica Voell: and

294

Katie Farinas: Yes.

295

Erica Voell: "Do you not think I didn't

296

Katie Farinas: I

297

Erica Voell: Like,

298

Katie Farinas: had one w- I had

someone tell me once, "Don't,

299

don't you just take a Motrin?"

300

And I was like, "Okay."

301

Erica Voell: Or, you know, like

with food allergies, "Well, we'll

302

just stop eating bl- bread."

303

it was only that easy.

304

Katie Farinas: yes.

305

Yeah

306

Erica Voell: yeah, and so I, I f- I

know that there are gonna be a lot

307

of women who are gonna hear your

story, and it's just like, ugh, yes.

308

And I, I love that you talked about your

intuition because I think f- I, I did not

309

trust my intuition for gazillion years

310

Katie Farinas: Uhum.

311

Erica Voell: until I had a whisper

that was just like, "Gather the women."

312

And I was like, "What the heck is that?

313

I have no idea what…

314

where this is coming from.

315

Like, did I leave the TV on?"

316

Katie Farinas: Right.

317

Yes

318

Erica Voell: But when you get that

whisper and that s- that voice, and

319

it's like, where is that coming from?

320

Who is that?

321

And for you to get this, "Go to

yoga," and you're like, the heck?

322

Okay,

323

Katie Farinas: Because often the intuitive

nudges don't make sense in the moment.

324

They don't make sense.

325

So you're like, like you're saying,

like, "Did I leave the TV on?"

326

Or like, "What the heck?"

327

Like, "Why would I do that?

328

That makes absolutely no sense."

329

Erica Voell: Yes.

330

Katie Farinas: But it's part of the bigger

plan that we just can't see in the moment.

331

Yeah

332

Erica Voell: and I was in

burnout and had not hit my w-

333

wall, my really hard wall yet.

334

And so when I heard that, I

was like, "Gather the women.

335

Who am I gathering?

336

What are

337

Katie Farinas: Yes.

338

Erica Voell: about?"

339

Katie Farinas: Yes.

340

Erica Voell: makes sense now,

341

Katie Farinas: Yes

342

Erica Voell: was, it was such a weird

voice, and I heard it for three days,

343

and I was like, "What is going on?

344

Katie Farinas: Yeah

345

Erica Voell: some old

lady tap into my brain?"

346

Katie Farinas: I know.

347

I had one years ago.

348

Now, this was after I had

been on the path a little bit.

349

I mean, I'd, I'd been going there,

so I was definitely more in touch

350

with my intuition than I, than

I was previously in my life.

351

But I, I got this vision

of me writing a book.

352

This is before I was

still working as a nurse.

353

I didn't have a podcast.

354

I didn't teach yoga.

355

I, I was not a writer in any form

or fashion, and it was just this

356

knowing, you're gonna write a book.

357

And I thought, "Well,

that's really weird."

358

And

359

then I moved on with my life.

360

Like, I didn't do anything about it.

361

Um, and now, where I am in my

life now, I'm like, "Oh, okay,

362

that, that's why I got that."

363

Um, so learning to, learning

to hear it, and then it's

364

almost two separate processes.

365

One is just learning to hear it and be

like, "Oh, that, that actually did happen.

366

I didn't imagine that.

367

Erica Voell: Aha.

368

Katie Farinas: not on.

369

Uh, that actually is a

real experience I had."

370

And then the second part

is learning to trust it.

371

Erica Voell: Uhum

372

Katie Farinas: those, I think, are

two, two different things because we

373

can go through a phase where we, we

do start to hear those nudges, those

374

whispers, but we just go ahead and do the

opposite anyway because we don't trust.

375

And so it's, it's a journey to get there

376

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

377

I'm curious, like, what,

how did this change your

378

relationship with your own body?

379

Like, it was obviously giving you lots

380

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

381

Yes

382

Erica Voell: that relationship change?

383

Katie Farinas: So I would say prior to

that experience, I was 100% healthy.

384

I really had h- never had

any real medical problems.

385

I broke my foot when I was a kid.

386

I mean, just like, just tiny little

things that lots of people experience,

387

but other than that, completely healthy.

388

And I didn't realize how much that

was a part of my identity, was to

389

have a healthy body and to be strong

and to be capable of doing all the

390

things that I wanted and loved to do.

391

And then it felt like my body betrayed me.

392

It felt like…

393

It was, there was a tremendous

amount of grief, and there was this

394

realization that before I had taken

it for granted that I could trust my

395

body, and now I felt very unsafe inside

my body and that I couldn't trust it.

396

Because it was such a- Migraine

is a very mysterious disease.

397

It is the sixth leading cause of

disability in the world, and they

398

still do not understand what causes

a migraine and why some people

399

get them and some people don't.

400

And the treatments are

still very ineffective.

401

Erica Voell: Uhum

402

Katie Farinas: And so I didn't

certainly have answers, and none of

403

my doctors had answers, and it, it

just felt so unsafe to be inside me.

404

It was like I wanted to get into

a different body, a different

405

container that would feel safer.

406

And so there was grief, and then there was

trauma, really, from this lack of safety.

407

And it was, again, yoga that brought

me back into my body and into a

408

space that felt safe and gave me the

ability to process the grief that I

409

was experiencing, because yoga is a

very embodied experience, especially

410

the, particularly the asana portion.

411

That's the, asana are the

poses that you make on the mat.

412

And it allowed me in those 60

minutes to drop into my body and

413

just be present with whatever was,

um, and to, in the meditation, learn

414

that not all parts of my body

were in pain at all times.

415

So it really started to teach me this

concept of, of awareness and where

416

we place our awareness and how that

impacts the stories we tell ourselves,

417

and then how we feel in the world.

418

And so it was a tremendous

teacher for that.

419

You know, I could, I could place my

awareness on my head, and maybe it was

420

throbbing or pounding or searing, but

then I could place my awareness on my, my

421

big toe on my foot, and I felt nothing.

422

Or in the palm of my hand, and I

felt that, that really nice warm,

423

tingling prana sensation that you

feel when you really place your

424

awareness on the palm of your hand.

425

And it was my choice.

426

I got to choose where

I placed my attention.

427

What a gift.

428

I don't have to stay stuck in the pain

and the horror of what's happening to me.

429

I get to make the decision about what my

experience of life is going to be simply

430

by where I train my awareness to go.

431

And that was such a tremendous gift

in my life that I use in all areas of

432

my life, not just related to migraine

433

Erica Voell: Mm.

434

Okay.

435

W- that, there's, there's a clip

there, like getting to choose.

436

Oh my

437

Katie Farinas: Yes.

438

Erica Voell: And I was reading something

that you wrote recently, and you said,

439

w- what you said really stopped me.

440

It was about the quiet

grief in midlife, going into

441

Katie Farinas: Uhum

442

Erica Voell: Um, and it was

something that I hadn't thought much

443

about in those exact terms, like

444

It, it was, can't even remember what you

wrote, but it was the g- the grief we

445

feel in midlife, letting go of the things.

446

And all of a sudden, like, all

over I started to see multiple

447

posts, um, on it for several days.

448

And I think that, like, we have a grief

in midlife that we can't really name,

449

Katie Farinas: Yeah

450

Erica Voell: and we don't

know how to deal with it.

451

can you talk more about

452

that, what ac- that

grief was actually about?

453

Katie Farinas: Yes.

454

So, first of all, I, until

my mid-40s probably, early to

455

mid-40s, I thought grief was only

something that you experienced

456

when someone you loved passed away.

457

That was my definition of grief.

458

I was sadly very, very

misunderstood the concept of grief.

459

So there are many different

levels of grief, and essentially

460

grief is when we lose something,

anything that's important to us.

461

And so when I lost my ability to engage

in all the activities I love, I was

462

a big backpacker and hiker, and l- I

mentioned sports and all the things.

463

I lost that.

464

That was, there was a

grieving process there.

465

Um, in midlife, oh my gosh, I

mean, the grief is never ending.

466

Our children are growing up

and our parenting is changing.

467

I, I, I mentioned to you, I think before

we started recording, that I just sent

468

my daughter off to college, right?

469

She's no longer a part of my every day.

470

I don't parent her every day the way

that I did, and I grieve that, and

471

I grieve when she was really little,

and I grieve when the years that

472

she lost because she was so sick.

473

Oh, I have a tremendous

amount of grief for that.

474

Um, I have a grief for our entire

family, 'cause when one member of

475

your family is sick, it impacts

the entire family structure.

476

Then our bodies are changing,

without our consent, by the way.

477

So much of this happens

sans your consent, right?

478

It just

479

Erica Voell: Yes.

480

Katie Farinas: gets taken.

481

So, you know, I, I had tr- I

didn't know the perimenopause

482

can start in your mid-30s.

483

I was completely uneducated about

all of this stuff, um, and my

484

body just started uncontrollably

changing no matter what I did.

485

I was gaining weight.

486

I was, um, my face, my skin, my hair,

uh, all these symptoms I was having.

487

Heart palpitations and muscle

cramps and bloating and

488

insomnia, and it was like, whoa.

489

Like, all, all of that change.

490

And then relationships.

491

As we start evolving in midlife, we might

find like, oh, these, this friendship

492

really isn't working for me anymore.

493

Or maybe my partnership isn't

working for me anymore, my marriage.

494

Um, and that is another form of grief.

495

You know, maybe we have to let go of that.

496

Maybe we have to do a lot of

work to get it back on track.

497

Um, it, it's really endless.

498

Even our jobs.

499

I mean, I enjoyed being a nurse.

500

For many years, I was a nurse for

20 years, and while I can say I did

501

always feel like there was something

missing, uh, that I was not on

502

the mark, I did like what I did.

503

I did enjoy it.

504

And unknowingly, we attach

so easy, this, easily.

505

This idea of detachment is a,

is a concept in yoga, um, and

506

how we suffer when we attach.

507

And so- Unknowingly, I had attached part

of my identity to being a nurse, and

508

I did enjoy it until one day I didn't.

509

And then it was like, "Oh, God,

I've spent 20 years in this career

510

Erica Voell: Yes

511

Katie Farinas: and I don't

feel like I fit here anymore.

512

It feels like putting on a scratchy suit

that is three ti- three sizes too small.

513

Erica Voell: Uhum

514

Katie Farinas: And what does that mean?

515

Who am I am if I'm, if I'm not a nurse?"

516

And I wanted to go do what?

517

Like, start a podcast and life coach?

518

Like, what are people gonna say?

519

I'm leaving a well-paying, highly

respected, very stable career to

520

s- open my own business, which

I've never done before in my life.

521

Like, you just get these, you know,

it, it seems crazy in, in the moment.

522

Erica Voell: Aha

523

Katie Farinas: there's a

grief in that letting go.

524

So the- truly, I feel like the grief

of midlife is so layered, and it's,

525

it's a natural response to how many

things that are changing and that

526

are changing without our consent.

527

And it's, it's not a bad

thing that they're changing.

528

My daughter growing up and going off

to college, it's a great thing, right?

529

Me deciding that I wanna pivot in

my career and finally feel like I

530

am actually in my dharma and, and

on the mark, it's a good thing.

531

It, it doesn't have to be

something bad for us to grieve it.

532

It just has to be something that we

lost, even if we choose the loss.

533

I chose to leave my nursing career.

534

That doesn't mean that there wasn't

some grief associated with it.

535

Erica Voell: Yeah

536

Katie Farinas: giving ourselves

permission and saying, "You know what?

537

It's okay.

538

It's okay that I feel grief over this.

539

Erica Voell: Uhum

540

Katie Farinas: That is a normal process,

a part of moving through this stage

541

of life, and I'm gonna give myself the

time and the space to feel it and to, to

542

move it out and to not rush it along."

543

Erica Voell: Yeah.

544

I left a library career

of 19 years, and there

545

was…

546

I was so excited to leave, but

what I grieved was the coworkers

547

Katie Farinas: Ja.

548

Mhm.

549

Erica Voell: the weather,

550

Katie Farinas: Yes

551

Erica Voell: the everyday

just, like, chitchat,

552

Katie Farinas: Yes

553

Erica Voell: I missed…

554

I didn't realize I would miss it so much.

555

I just missed sometimes just

having somebody to, like,

556

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

557

Erica Voell: off of.

558

Katie Farinas: Absolutely

559

Erica Voell: I'm bouncing ideas

off of i- you know, I'm- of myself.

560

I'm

561

Katie Farinas: Yes

562

Erica Voell: and I'm walking, and I'm

like, "Okay, is that a good idea?"

563

And

564

great-

565

Katie Farinas: an echo chamber in here.

566

Erica Voell: Yes.

567

But I think that also

this sense of, like…

568

You know, I know as women in midlife,

we, we think about the, the grief

569

of our kids growing up, but there's

also this sense of, like, who I…

570

How much time did I spend being

somebody that I didn't feel

571

Katie Farinas: Uhum, uhum

572

Erica Voell: um, that's where it

came up for me, was It did not feel

573

right after 2020, and something…

574

I don't know what happened in t- I

mean, the pandemic obviously happened in

575

Katie Farinas: Right

576

Erica Voell: but that was, like, the

real wake-up call that this is…

577

Something's not right.

578

Katie Farinas: Yeah

579

Erica Voell: But then there was,

like, "Then who the heck am I?

580

Katie Farinas: Yes

581

Erica Voell: And how have I not

been able to see this for years?

582

Why does it take a pandemic

583

Katie Farinas: Mm-hmm

584

Erica Voell: for me to see

that this is not right for me?"

585

And there was that grief of,

like, how much time did I take,

586

and how much time did I waste?

587

But

588

Katie Farinas: Yes

589

Erica Voell: I wasn't wasting time.

590

Maybe it was just the work of doing

d- of the little bit, uh, un- covering

591

the layers of the onion to start to

592

Katie Farinas: Yes.

593

Erica Voell: what was really there.

594

Katie Farinas: that's, it's so true.

595

I mean, I wish…

596

I think about my own parenting and

how I parented when my children were

597

very young versus how I parent now.

598

And, you know, there's this little

ego part of me that would like to

599

rewind the clock and be the mom I am

now starting from when they were born.

600

Um, or rewind the clock and know that

this is my, my dharma, and this is what

601

I was supposed to be doing all along,

and not, you know, have those years that

602

I spent at the bedside, and put those

years into doing what I'm doing now.

603

But, so yes, it's, it, that thought

comes into my mind, of course.

604

But then it's just, it's just

abundantly clear to me that I

605

couldn't be here now talking to you,

doing what I'm doing, being the mom

606

that I am, without every one of the

experiences that I had along the way.

607

Without that sense of something's

off, something's missing.

608

Without that breakdown, you

know, being stripped of all

609

of my roles and my identities.

610

Without the suffering.

611

It, you know, u- unfortunately, I

don't know why, I don't know what

612

it is about the human condition,

but it does seem that for most of

613

us, we wake up through suffering.

614

Erica Voell: Yes.

615

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

616

Erica Voell: sick,

617

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

618

Erica Voell: some sort of diagnosis come.

619

Like, I don't like the food

allergy diagnosis I have.

620

I don't like some of the other

health issues I've had, but they

621

were a real freaking wake-up call.

622

Katie Farinas: Ja

623

Erica Voell: something was not right,

that was my body saying, "Hello.

624

We've

625

been trying to give you

these signals all along.

626

Please notice."

627

Katie Farinas: Ja

628

Erica Voell: it was like, "You're

not noticing, so we're just

629

gonna hit you in the head."

630

Katie Farinas: Right.

631

Yes.

632

Erica Voell: Like, no

633

Katie Farinas: D- I don't know if you

watched Oprah growing up, but she would…

634

Erica Voell: Many,

635

Katie Farinas: Do you remember

she would say this all the time?

636

This is a, this is a

common thing she would say.

637

She said, "Life will throw you a

pebble, and if you don't listen,

638

then it'll send you a rock.

639

And if you don't listen to that,

you're getting the boulder."

640

Like, it's like…

641

And for so many of us, we can ignore

the pebble, and we can ignore the rock.

642

Like, we're like, we feel it.

643

There's something off, but also I need

to get dinner on the table, and help my

644

kid with homework, and pay the bills,

and, you know, get, try to get eight

645

hours of sleep, and all the things

that we try to accomplish in our day.

646

And so we kind of like bat the rock

and the pebble away, and then the

647

boulder hits us, and we're like,

"Oh, shoot, I can't ignore that."

648

Like, that

649

Erica Voell: Yes.

650

But then we also, like, we will

get hit with that, by that boulder,

651

and we will be, like, s- stuck

under the boulder and we're like,

652

Katie Farinas: Yes.

653

Erica Voell: "But I'm fine.

654

Katie Farinas: Yes, it's fine.

655

Everything's fine.

656

Erica Voell: I'm f- Pay no attention to

the woman under the rock, the boulder.

657

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

658

I'll just push it off.

659

I'll just push it off

of me and keep going.

660

It's fine.

661

It's…

662

I have a broken arm,

broken legs, few ribs.

663

I'm good.

664

Erica Voell: Yes.

665

Oh, oh, a friend of mine told

me, she's like, "Do you know…"

666

I said, "You know, things are fine."

667

And she's like, "Do you know

what fine really means?"

668

And I was like, "Fine?

669

It's okay."

670

And she's like, "No, no, no.

671

is a four-letter word.

672

Katie Farinas: Yes, I agree.

673

Erica Voell: not expe-

674

Katie Farinas: Yes

675

Erica Voell: And I was like, "I will ne-"

So when somebody says fi- "I'm fine," and

676

I'm like, "So what's really going on?"

677

Katie Farinas: Yes

678

Erica Voell: time they don't

wanna say, and half the time

679

they're like, "How can you tell?

680

I'm fine."

681

I'm like, "You're not fine."

682

Katie Farinas: You are,

yes, you are not fine.

683

I call fine the F word.

684

I'd rather, I'd rather you

use the traditional F word

685

Erica Voell: Aha

686

Katie Farinas: me than tell me you're

fine, uh, because it's, it's just a cover.

687

It's really a cover for I don't have

time/don't want to deal with u- what's

688

underneath of it, which is no shame.

689

That is understandable, um, because

it's, it gets uncomfortable.

690

Under fine gets uncomfortable.

691

Erica Voell: Uhum

692

Katie Farinas: But

through fine gets freedom.

693

Erica Voell: Uhum

694

Katie Farinas: So that is, that is

what I try to tell my clients all the

695

time when they're like, "Ooh," like,

"I don't really wanna dig in there.

696

But it's not feeling good.

697

I'd rather go back to fine."

698

But fine is a cage that

will keep you stuck forever.

699

Erica Voell: Yes.

700

Yes.

701

And I, when I worked at the library,

there was one woman who had all

702

these stickers on her computer

that was like, "Things are fine.

703

I'm fine."

704

Like, 'cause that was what she'd always

say, and we're like, "It's not fine.

705

We know it's not fine.

706

We know you're not okay."

707

Katie Farinas: Yes.

708

Yes.

709

Erica Voell: So I wanna go

back to the, the yoga piece.

710

Um, and y- you, you said some things

earlier about yoga and it being

711

the spiritual practice, and I know

for some women have, in midlife,

712

have left religion behind or

713

have this really complicated

relationships with it.

714

so how…

715

Where does spirituality, um, fit

for someone who doesn't wanna

716

go back to, like, feeling like

religion that they grew up with,

717

Katie Farinas: Yes

718

Erica Voell: still feels like

there is something Because I

719

know for me, I dove really hard

into the sacred feminine, um,

720

about 2018, '19 because I was

like, "Something is missing."

721

Katie Farinas: Uhum.

722

Erica Voell: And we'd gone to the

Unitarian Church for years, but it, that

723

wasn't feeling like it was fitting where I

was, and I s- now I have my own practices.

724

But how do…

725

When you work with women, um, and either

in the yoga studio or as a coach, like,

726

Katie Farinas: Uhum.

727

Erica Voell: do you, do you balance that?

728

And d- do, do

729

those old things come back up?

730

Katie Farinas: Yeah, so it's funny

that you're asking this question.

731

The, my podcast episode that

came out literally, what's today?

732

Wednesday, Monday, um, is

titled The G Word: How to

733

Reconnect with God in Midlife.

734

And

735

Erica Voell: that and I didn't

736

Katie Farinas: yes, it is exa- ex- on

exactly this topic, uh, because there

737

are many people who have had n- not

great experiences i- in religions.

738

I'm one of them.

739

Um, I grew up a Catholic, and

that religion did not fit for me.

740

So my, my personal stance is that I

believe that all religions and all

741

ancient wisdom traditions are just

different trails up the same mountain

742

that end at the same spot on the top.

743

And when you start diving, as I have, into

these different religious traditions and

744

go deep into their philosophy, you see

that the philosophy is overlapping, that

745

they're really all saying, fundamentally

they're all saying the same thing.

746

So when I work with women,

I, I want to work within what

747

feels comfortable for them.

748

So for some, they come with a religious

tradition that works for them.

749

But for those that don't, we don't need

religion to have a close connection

750

with, I'll use the word God, but

we can, again, insert any word that

751

you want or feel comfortable with.

752

Something greater than yourself.

753

And there's, there's a lot of actually

data, a lot of research that shows that

754

we are hardwired to do this, that every

human being comes into the world with

755

the, not only the capacity, but the

desire to connect with something greater.

756

And we have the choice as to how we wanna

do that, and also how much we do it.

757

But if we don't do it, we will always

feel as though something is missing.

758

Erica Voell: Uhum

759

Katie Farinas: Because it, it's,

it's part of our, our DNA, it's

760

part of the structure of being

human is to, to have this need to

761

connect with something greater.

762

Erica Voell: Uhum.

763

Katie Farinas: So I help women

define for themselves what that is.

764

A- again, is it a religious tradition?

765

Do you believe in, in Jesus?

766

Are you, are you Christian

or are you Jewish?

767

Or if you're nothing, well,

what does that feel like to you?

768

Did you ever have that connection?

769

I think for most people, and in

my experience, most women who I s-

770

speak with say, I remember feeling

some sort of connection when I

771

was young and, but then I lost it.

772

And again, I got involved in

this religion thing, or I didn't.

773

Either way, I, I don't have it anymore.

774

I don't know what happened

to it, but it's gone.

775

But I have this faint re- whisper

of a memory of feeling something

776

that I would now define as the

thing that's greater than me.

777

And so we investigate how we

can reconnect with that feeling.

778

What door is going to un- what door do

you have the key to that you can walk

779

through and feel that connection again?

780

So for some people, that is prayer.

781

It could be, uh, time in nature.

782

It could be journaling.

783

It could be cre- creation,

being in creativity.

784

Um, there are so many avenues.

785

There's so many, just as there

are all these religions and they

786

all lead to the same mountaintop,

same with these access points.

787

Um, but it's, it's really about finding

your access point and what helps

788

you to feel that you are surrounded

by the divine, and that the divine

789

lives inside of you, and that you

have a relationship with the divine.

790

So when I was a kid, I used to walk

around talking to God all the time.

791

I talked to God in my head, I talked to my

God out lou- my, I talked to God out loud.

792

Like, I think people probably thought

I was crazy or I was talking to myself.

793

I always knew I'm talking to God.

794

I'm in constant conversation with God.

795

And then lots of life happened, and

I stopped talking to God altogether.

796

I did not pray.

797

I did not speak out loud to God.

798

I, I did, I really had

no relationship with God.

799

And then when I started reconnecting

to myself through this process

800

of yoga, I started praying again.

801

Because that was, for

me, that was my doorway.

802

That's what had always

worked for me in the past.

803

And you know what I found?

804

God was there just waiting, just

waiting to pick up the conversation

805

right where we left off.

806

And that's what it feels like

to be in connection with God,

807

in relationship with God.

808

It's this conversation that never ends

and always feels like, i- no matter

809

how much time has passed, you can

just pick up right where you left off.

810

I don't know if anybody has one of those

friends that you don't see that much, but

811

maybe you see them, like, once a year.

812

But you get together and it's like

zero time has passed, and you're just,

813

like, laughing and talking and sharing.

814

And it's like, "Oh my God, I

feel like we've been talking

815

every day for the past year."

816

That's your relationship with God,

like, always there, always present,

817

always with you, beside you, in

you, and you get to choose how

818

much you wanna engage with that.

819

And that is, that is what I work with,

you know, with the women that I coach.

820

Like, what does it feel like to you?

821

How do you access that feeling?

822

And how much do you want to

invite it into your life?

823

And what does it feel like when

you do invite it into your life?

824

How does that change your experience

of, of this human journey?

825

Erica Voell: Yeah, and I, I had a…

826

I grew up in a very Protestant

household and thought,

827

you know, I, I was, I was

always c- I'm a curious kid.

828

I was always curious, like, how do

we know which is the right religion?

829

And I remember asking at church,

um, in the youth group sophomore

830

year, and I was like, "So how do

we know that this religion…"

831

My friend had brought her boyfriend,

and he was from the Catholic Church that

832

was across the street from our church.

833

And I was like, "So how do we know

that this is the right religion?"

834

And I'll never forget the youth

minister saying, "You just know."

835

And I was like

836

"No, I

837

Katie Farinas: That's not an answer.

838

Yeah

839

Erica Voell: asking you."

840

And he's like, "You just have

faith and you just know."

841

And I was like, "No."

842

And from then on, I was

like, want any part of it."

843

And when we got married, it was like

I wanted a sort of a traditional

844

religious ceremony, but I didn't

want it to be super Christian.

845

So that's when I found the Unitarian

Church, and I was like, "Oh, okay.

846

They bring in so many

different religions."

847

It felt very, like, a conglomeration.

848

But I know that I, I remember…

849

Or I've met people who have told me,

like, "Oh, well, we don't go to yoga

850

class because it's not Christian."

851

And I'm like, "How is it not Christian?"

852

Like, you're connecting

with a higher person.

853

Okay, maybe you don't have an intermediary

who's telling you what to believe.

854

But I, I just find it so fascinating that,

yeah, I, I think a lot of us don't…

855

If we've grown up in a religion that

felt very confining, having that

856

relationship feels very foreign, and

connecting with it through nature,

857

connecting through it, through cre- you

know, creative, being creative is just…

858

It's like n- a lot of us

are like, "No, no, no.

859

That's, that's not a

religious experience."

860

But it is.

861

It's a

862

Katie Farinas: It is

863

Erica Voell: powerful,

um, spiritual experience.

864

And when I've go- I go to a yoga on

the farm, um, a friend of mine does

865

it, and on a friend, another friend's

farm, and I feel like that is where

866

my most r- religious experiences of

867

Katie Farinas: Yes

868

Erica Voell: times have happened.

869

And I,

870

I tell my friend Jen, I'm like,

"Why can't I get through any of

871

your yoga classes without crying?"

872

Like, I am there and

it's, like, ugly crying.

873

I have to take

874

Katie Farinas: Sobbing and

875

Erica Voell: And, and she's like,

"Then I know it's, it's working."

876

Katie Farinas: Yes.

877

Erica Voell: She's

878

Katie Farinas: Aha

879

Erica Voell: you're connecting

with yourself in a way that

880

you don't normally do."

881

And I'm

882

Katie Farinas: Yeah.

883

Yeah.

884

Erica Voell: "Yes

885

Katie Farinas: I think s-

and so many of us were…

886

W- when you say it's not a religious

experience, well, I think we were raised

887

to believe that, at least I was, that

religion was the only way to access God.

888

But religion is just a human construct.

889

It is, it is something that us

humans put together as a way,

890

a way of accessing God, right?

891

It i- it gives us some structure.

892

It gives us some format.

893

Um, it, it gives us community, built-in

community, th- those types of things.

894

But it's just one avenue for

connecting with source or God,

895

and there are many others.

896

And so the, the only

thing that's real is God.

897

So if you have a relationship

with them, it doesn't matter how.

898

You can do that through your church.

899

You can do that through yoga.

900

You can do that through nature.

901

You can do it through creativity.

902

It's endless.

903

God does not care.

904

God just wants relationship with you.

905

So whatever way you get there is a re-

is a godly spiritual experience, even

906

if it's not a religious experience.

907

Erica Voell: And I, uh, uh, as we

were talking before I re- we started

908

recording, I was telling you I'm going

to be officiating a wedding, and I got

909

ordained online, and one of the things

that they sent me was this, like, cool…

910

I have it on my desk.

911

It's this picture of, like, the, um,

history of all these religions, and

912

so at the bottom is, like, modern

religions, and it traces it all back.

913

And I was…

914

I'm so fascinated by it.

915

I look at it all the time.

916

And I think these religions that

we, that some, um, have, that we

917

think are different sects actually

all have a similar, um, origin.

918

But even some, like Wiccan, does not

have the same as some of the other

919

ones in the Celtic traditions, and

I'm like, "This is so fascinating."

920

I'm always, like…

921

Sometimes I'll trace it back, and some

African religions have very, um, very

922

similar origins to other religions that

are very prominent i- in our areas,

923

in our world today, and it's

just like, oh, there's…

924

We've dec- as humans, we decided

that, like, and, and for, y- you

925

know, in the Catholic Church,

like, we want the power, and

926

Katie Farinas: Ja

927

Erica Voell: are going to write,

rewrite the, way things happened, and

928

writing Mary Magdalene out of the Bible.

929

And like, so i- it's, it's

fascinating to me how it all

930

comes together, how it all works.

931

And one thing that when I was on your

podcast, you asked, you mentioned, um,

932

you asked me about purpose, and I, and I I

said it felt like a loaded word, and then

933

you were like, but you reframed it as this

word dharma, and you mentioned it before.

934

And I have to be honest, when

you said dharma, I was like,

935

"Is that Dharma and Greg?"

936

'Cause that was one of my

favorite shows from the

937

Katie Farinas: I used to

love that show too, yeah.

938

Erica Voell: But I, I mean, I've

done yoga for quite a while, but

939

I'd had no idea about the concept.

940

Um, so, and you mentioned that

dharma is, like, the purpose.

941

So can you talk more about, like,

what does that mean in a really honest

942

way of, like, how we think about

in pur- of purpose in midlife, and

943

Katie Farinas: Ja

944

Erica Voell: version of w- who

we've been carrying around?

945

Katie Farinas: So I love, this is

one of my favorite, favorite topics.

946

Uh, it's one of my favorite parts

of the coaching container, the,

947

the process that we work through,

because I think it's so, so powerful.

948

So dharma is a Sanskrit word, and

like all Sanskrit words, they are

949

not easily translated into English.

950

They are, you know, we do the best

we can, but they, their meanings are

951

layered, um, unlike in, in the English

language where meaning is pretty direct.

952

But some of the best definitions

of dharma are, uh, sacred duty

953

to self, our sacred duty to self.

954

Um, it's also translated as your

essence, the essence of who you are.

955

It can be translated as,

uh, your soul's purpose

956

Uh, it can be s- translated

as the right way.

957

So, so when I say dharma, it's

really a shorter version of

958

the word svadharma, which, so

there's multiple layers of dharma.

959

So I'm talking about svadharma.

960

So when we are talking about the right

way or the right path, we're talking

961

about your right way, your right path.

962

And it is…

963

I think purpose is a loaded word,

I agree with you, because people

964

think it's this one particular thing.

965

I thought it was one particular thing

for the majority of my life, and I

966

remember searching so hard for it.

967

I can- I did every workbook.

968

I read all the, the books.

969

I like,

970

Erica Voell: need to know my

971

Katie Farinas: need,

972

Erica Voell: it will tell me

what job that will make me happy

973

Katie Farinas: er, yes, yes, yes,

and it was just so frustrating.

974

And I, and by the end I was like,

"Well, I know about three trillion

975

things that are not my purpose, but I

still don't know what my purpose is."

976

And so my fatal flaw in that was

thinking that it had to be one

977

thing, and that that one thing had to

equate to a job that paid me money.

978

And this is where we get, it gets sticky.

979

We get all tangled up, and then we're

like, throw hands in the air, I'm gonna

980

scroll some social media because I cannot.

981

It's too overwhelming.

982

But what it really means is,

and I love, I love the, the

983

definition of it's your essence.

984

Um, I, I think that really does

describe it in a really beautiful

985

way because we all come here

with our karmic journey, right?

986

So, so migraine is part

of my karmic journey.

987

Parenting a very sick child was part of

my karmic journey, as was nursing and

988

marrying who I married and, and being

the daughter of who I was born to, right?

989

This is all part of my karmic journey.

990

And so we come into this life,

and we have a karmic journey.

991

We're going to have certain

experiences, good and bad, and

992

they're going to shape and mold us.

993

And we also come into this life with

certain innate gifts or talents, right?

994

That's why we see, you know, if

you have multiple children, you

995

probably will see like, oh my

gosh, my one kid is like so good at

996

this, and my other kid is terrible.

997

You know, it's not nature versus nurture.

998

We come into this world, this

one's super creative, can't do a

999

math problem to save their life.

00:53:34,686 --> 00:53:39,045

This one is doing advanced math but can't

literally draw a stick figure, right?

00:53:39,045 --> 00:53:42,606

So then we just, we just come

in with what we come in with.

00:53:43,056 --> 00:53:48,296

And so your essence is

this mashup of all of that.

00:53:48,386 --> 00:53:54,145

It's this innate gifts and talents

combined with the experiences

00:53:54,146 --> 00:53:59,386

that you have over your lifetime

that lead you to serve the world

00:53:59,435 --> 00:54:02,155

in your very particular way.

00:54:02,868 --> 00:54:05,858

So that service can come through a job.

00:54:05,868 --> 00:54:10,738

There are many people who feel that

what they do for a living is really

00:54:10,768 --> 00:54:15,778

their purpose, um, and they're very

passionate about it, and that's wonderful.

00:54:16,448 --> 00:54:20,758

But it can also be

literally everything else.

00:54:20,908 --> 00:54:23,788

So it can be the way that you parent.

00:54:24,148 --> 00:54:25,908

And, and that's the thing about dharma.

00:54:25,908 --> 00:54:31,744

So the people who are passionate about

their job The skills, the, the gifts, the

00:54:31,744 --> 00:54:38,064

talents, the experiences, what they do at

their core, at their essence in their job

00:54:38,504 --> 00:54:47,334

is likely flowing in to how they relate to

other people, to how they parent, to how

00:54:47,334 --> 00:54:52,324

they, the hobbies that they're interested

in, to every other aspect of their lives.

00:54:52,334 --> 00:54:55,824

So for example, I'll give you, I'll

give you an example, personal example

00:54:55,824 --> 00:54:57,394

to bring this down to brass tacks.

00:54:58,164 --> 00:55:01,894

At, at my essence, a part of my

dharma is that I am a teacher.

00:55:03,004 --> 00:55:08,744

And I remember when I was in college,

I got up and I gave a presentation.

00:55:08,744 --> 00:55:12,574

I had no thoughts of ever

becoming a teacher in my life.

00:55:13,114 --> 00:55:14,704

And I gave…

00:55:14,704 --> 00:55:19,784

I got up, I gave this presentation,

I sat back down, and my professor

00:55:19,994 --> 00:55:21,624

was at the same table I was at.

00:55:21,634 --> 00:55:24,494

And he was like, "Oh my

God, you're a teacher."

00:55:24,924 --> 00:55:30,224

So your dharma also, your pe- other people

in your life will show you your dharma

00:55:30,254 --> 00:55:32,694

sometimes before you see it in yourself.

00:55:33,274 --> 00:55:40,484

And like all 21-year-olds, I brushed him

off because I was like, "No, I'm not."

00:55:42,984 --> 00:55:44,094

But then what happened?

00:55:44,404 --> 00:55:48,014

I actually became a high school

teacher for a couple of years,

00:55:48,394 --> 00:55:50,044

but it didn't really quite fit.

00:55:50,084 --> 00:55:52,114

I was like, "Hmm, this isn't quite right."

00:55:52,364 --> 00:55:53,994

So I went on and I got my nursing degree.

00:55:53,994 --> 00:55:55,124

Well, guess what's in nursing?

00:55:55,224 --> 00:55:56,394

A lot of teaching.

00:55:56,404 --> 00:55:58,294

Guess what I really enjoy doing?

00:55:58,294 --> 00:56:02,354

One of my favorite parts of

nursing was teaching my patients.

00:56:03,144 --> 00:56:05,723

Guess what my favorite

part of parenting is?

00:56:05,944 --> 00:56:07,644

Teaching my kids.

00:56:07,934 --> 00:56:12,184

Whether that's, you know, what I

love to teach them is more life

00:56:12,184 --> 00:56:15,134

stuff, you know, the journey of

life, but I even enjoy helping

00:56:15,134 --> 00:56:16,364

them with their homework, you know?

00:56:16,614 --> 00:56:17,874

I enjoy that teaching.

00:56:18,104 --> 00:56:19,584

Um, what do I do on my podcast?

00:56:19,604 --> 00:56:20,933

What do I do with my writing?

00:56:21,104 --> 00:56:21,394

Right?

00:56:21,524 --> 00:56:27,484

I am, part, part of who I am,

part of my dharma is that I teach.

00:56:28,174 --> 00:56:35,414

And that is a thread that has run through

my entire life, and that's what happens

00:56:35,414 --> 00:56:36,864

when we start recognizing our dharma.

00:56:36,874 --> 00:56:39,784

We can turn back around and

be like, "Oh, wait a minute.

00:56:40,114 --> 00:56:42,183

I've been doing this since I was a child."

00:56:43,134 --> 00:56:49,534

So if anyone knows what a mala, what

mala beads are, um, it's, it's I

00:56:49,534 --> 00:56:51,513

guess yoga's version of a rosary.

00:56:52,104 --> 00:56:55,944

It's like a long string and it has all

these little beads on it, and you use

00:56:55,944 --> 00:56:59,484

it for what's called japa meditation,

where you repeat a mantra and you use

00:56:59,484 --> 00:57:02,384

the beads to kind of keep track of how

many times you repeated the mantra.

00:57:02,394 --> 00:57:08,293

But I like to think of dharma

as the thread of the mala beads.

00:57:08,983 --> 00:57:13,504

So all of those beads are your, your

different parts of your life, different

00:57:13,504 --> 00:57:18,084

phases, different stages, different

experiences, different roles and titles.

00:57:18,853 --> 00:57:22,524

But there's a thread running

through every one of those.

00:57:22,784 --> 00:57:30,062

That's your dharma So when you understand

what that is, whether you're working in

00:57:30,062 --> 00:57:34,642

a job that's meh or you love it, whether

you're parenting, whether you're engaging

00:57:34,642 --> 00:57:38,702

with your partner or your best friend

or a random person on the street, no

00:57:38,702 --> 00:57:45,182

matter what you're doing, you can figure

out how to bring your dharma into it.

00:57:45,808 --> 00:57:46,128

Erica Voell: To,

00:57:46,552 --> 00:57:48,342

Katie Farinas: And when you do,

00:57:48,568 --> 00:57:48,908

Erica Voell: yeah

00:57:49,082 --> 00:57:51,592

Katie Farinas: it enlivens the experience.

00:57:51,802 --> 00:57:55,222

It takes the experience

from the F word, fine,

00:57:55,792 --> 00:57:55,802

Erica Voell: Hmm

00:57:56,432 --> 00:58:05,192

Katie Farinas: to this energized,

exciting, in-flow, joyous experience

00:58:05,424 --> 00:58:05,434

Erica Voell: Uhum

00:58:05,552 --> 00:58:08,582

Katie Farinas: because you are

expressing the essence of who you are

00:58:10,094 --> 00:58:12,924

Erica Voell: And as you were talking

about being a teacher, I was just

00:58:13,014 --> 00:58:18,064

like, going back to our conversation

from several weeks ago, and I was

00:58:18,094 --> 00:58:22,204

like trying to remember your profile

'cause I was just like, "Yes."

00:58:22,864 --> 00:58:25,044

The way you're describing it is so

00:58:27,634 --> 00:58:34,484

i- w- is so ex- exactly w- w- what I

remember our conversation in, on your

00:58:34,494 --> 00:58:39,724

podcast, and I was like, "I feel like

she's a 5/1 profile," and you are.

00:58:39,754 --> 00:58:39,984

And

00:58:40,100 --> 00:58:40,210

Katie Farinas: Ja, ja

00:58:40,384 --> 00:58:43,764

Erica Voell: sharing that where

your knowledge, that is so…

00:58:44,704 --> 00:58:49,684

So it's coming out in your, dharma and

your yoga practice, and we're seeing

00:58:49,684 --> 00:58:51,884

it in your chart, which is so cool.

00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:52,440

Katie Farinas: Yes.

00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:53,350

Yeah, yeah.

00:58:53,350 --> 00:58:54,840

So it's, it's the essence.

00:58:54,850 --> 00:58:56,260

It's part of my essence.

00:58:56,270 --> 00:58:56,420

I

00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:57,110

Erica Voell: Aha

00:58:57,580 --> 00:59:00,330

Katie Farinas: and the thing is,

is that our essences can be subtle.

00:59:00,340 --> 00:59:04,680

Like, another part of my essence is,

is that I am a space holder, right?

00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:12,080

Well, there's not a, um, a box

for that on the chart of jobs

00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:13,810

that you can apply for, right?

00:59:17,218 --> 00:59:17,568

Erica Voell: Come on

00:59:17,860 --> 00:59:17,940

Katie Farinas: So

00:59:18,238 --> 00:59:18,968

Erica Voell: please catch up.

00:59:20,370 --> 00:59:21,050

Katie Farinas: we ask, what do you do?

00:59:21,310 --> 00:59:22,860

That was the other thing

when I left nursing.

00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:24,190

When I said- when someone

said, "What do you do?"

00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,830

When I was a nurse I'd

say, "Oh, I'm a nurse."

00:59:26,180 --> 00:59:28,050

And people would go, "Oh, wow."

00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:31,490

And they'd like lean in and they'd

be like, "Tell me a story", you know?

00:59:32,070 --> 00:59:34,830

Now, when I say, when people

say, "What do you do?"

00:59:34,990 --> 00:59:37,330

And I'm like, "I'm a life

coach and a yoga teacher."

00:59:37,330 --> 00:59:37,830

And they're like, "Huh?"

00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:39,080

Like, you know, so

00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:43,630

so when we're trying, when we

go into this purpose, like, «I

00:59:43,630 --> 00:59:44,850

need to understand my purpose.

00:59:44,850 --> 00:59:51,050

I need to know my purpose», w-we,

we are tend to only think in terms

00:59:51,050 --> 00:59:55,240

of things that we know, things that,

that fall into a category that we're

00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,650

familiar with, when really your

essence is so much greater than that.

01:00:00,110 --> 01:00:03,180

And so teacher is an example of

something that does fall into a

01:00:03,180 --> 01:00:04,930

category that we're familiar with.

01:00:04,930 --> 01:00:09,299

I do it in a way that is different

than what a traditional school teacher

01:00:09,310 --> 01:00:12,620

does it, but at least it's a word

that we know what that means, right?

01:00:12,912 --> 01:00:13,482

Erica Voell: Yeah

01:00:13,570 --> 01:00:19,180

Katie Farinas: But, but space holder

is a very, a very undefined word.

01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,459

It's almost something you have to

experience to really understand.

01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:27,350

And so we need sometimes help

thinking outside the box,

01:00:27,376 --> 01:00:27,386

Erica Voell: Uhum

01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:32,670

Katie Farinas: outside of what we've

been taught to understand as these

01:00:32,670 --> 01:00:34,290

are the things that you can be.

01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:40,110

Well, actually, there's so much more

that you can be and that you are, uh,

01:00:40,110 --> 01:00:41,700

we just need different language for it.

01:00:42,142 --> 01:00:45,642

Erica Voell: Yeah, and, and even, uh,

as I was going through coach training,

01:00:45,642 --> 01:00:48,132

people were saying, "Oh, you're such-

you're so good at holding space."

01:00:48,132 --> 01:00:51,112

And I was like, "I don't

even know what that means."

01:00:51,732 --> 01:00:52,462

They're like, "You're so…"

01:00:52,862 --> 01:00:59,192

I had to have a teacher explain to me

how my holding space, like that was

01:00:59,192 --> 01:01:04,742

such a f- I didn't realize that being

listener that I have been my entire

01:01:04,742 --> 01:01:07,302

life was holding space for people.

01:01:07,432 --> 01:01:14,402

And when I get, when I had, um, some

Substack lives this summer, that was

01:01:14,402 --> 01:01:17,502

the thing that ke- kept coming back when

I got feedback from people is they're

01:01:17,502 --> 01:01:18,712

like, "You're so good at holding space."

01:01:18,712 --> 01:01:22,002

And I was like, "I don't

even know what I'm doing.

01:01:22,002 --> 01:01:23,002

I'm just being me."

01:01:25,802 --> 01:01:27,832

Katie Farinas: You're like,

"Please, I need a definition."

01:01:28,208 --> 01:01:28,458

Erica Voell: Yeah.

01:01:29,638 --> 01:01:33,478

I had to look it up 'cause I g- I

understand it and I know what it feels

01:01:33,478 --> 01:01:40,408

like on the, this, the, the, when I

am the person that somebody is holding

01:01:40,408 --> 01:01:42,658

space for, I know how that feels.

01:01:43,068 --> 01:01:48,468

But as a practitioner, it's like I

don't know what I am doing that is any

01:01:48,478 --> 01:01:52,358

really different than being myself.

01:01:52,488 --> 01:01:52,658

And

01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:54,260

Katie Farinas: And that's…

01:01:54,660 --> 01:01:54,870

Go ahead, go ahead

01:01:55,338 --> 01:01:58,708

Erica Voell: when we, when we

are, like, filling out the tax

01:01:58,718 --> 01:02:00,778

forms, we just don't know what…

01:02:01,478 --> 01:02:06,388

You can't really talk about the essence

of who you are the freaking tax forms.

01:02:07,668 --> 01:02:07,958

Katie Farinas: Yes.

01:02:08,058 --> 01:02:08,238

Yes.

01:02:08,288 --> 01:02:11,528

And I think what you just described,

what you just said was so perfect.

01:02:11,528 --> 01:02:13,698

You were like, "I don't

know what I'm doing.

01:02:13,708 --> 01:02:15,358

I'm just being me."

01:02:15,554 --> 01:02:16,044

Erica Voell: Aha

01:02:16,188 --> 01:02:16,858

Katie Farinas: dharma.

01:02:17,548 --> 01:02:19,068

You, you're just being you.

01:02:19,068 --> 01:02:21,018

It's the essence of who you are.

01:02:21,198 --> 01:02:24,798

You couldn't be different

than that if you tried, right?

01:02:24,798 --> 01:02:30,768

It's, it's just, it is the energetic

composition of, of who you were meant

01:02:30,768 --> 01:02:32,118

to be in this world, and it's…

01:02:32,538 --> 01:02:34,848

Dharma is very much tied to service.

01:02:34,868 --> 01:02:39,958

So it's this concept that we serve

ourselves because when we're doing that

01:02:39,968 --> 01:02:45,058

thing that we are meant to be doing, it

feels very enlivening and energizing.

01:02:45,068 --> 01:02:48,408

It gives us, um, a lot of

resilience in our life.

01:02:48,418 --> 01:02:50,528

It, it gives us joy, right?

01:02:50,528 --> 01:02:51,578

It puts us in flow.

01:02:51,578 --> 01:02:56,248

It does all these wonderful things

for us, but it doesn't stop there.

01:02:56,308 --> 01:03:01,408

Really, it's to be in service

to the world in some way.

01:03:01,438 --> 01:03:05,848

And so your ability to hold space

probably feels really good to you.

01:03:06,048 --> 01:03:09,528

Like, you feel really aligned when

you're holding space for somebody else.

01:03:09,538 --> 01:03:11,328

You feel like, "Yeah," like, "This is…

01:03:11,368 --> 01:03:15,868

I'm in the, I'm in the sweet spot here,"

like, "This is so good," you know?

01:03:16,328 --> 01:03:20,628

But, but then the person

receiving that, what a gift.

01:03:20,828 --> 01:03:21,318

Erica Voell: Uhum

01:03:21,428 --> 01:03:23,368

Katie Farinas: a gift to them

that they're like, "Oh, gosh,

01:03:23,368 --> 01:03:24,938

this person is really with me.

01:03:24,938 --> 01:03:26,078

They're really listening.

01:03:26,078 --> 01:03:27,448

They're really in tune.

01:03:27,698 --> 01:03:28,778

They care.

01:03:28,938 --> 01:03:33,868

They're not rushing in to fill the

empty space and to finish my sentences.

01:03:33,878 --> 01:03:38,878

Like, they are just present

and holding this container for

01:03:38,878 --> 01:03:41,928

me to come home to myself."

01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:42,870

Erica Voell: Yeah.

01:03:43,168 --> 01:03:44,188

Katie Farinas: that's the gift

01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:48,080

Erica Voell: And I've noticed being

in family gatherings, I stopped

01:03:49,230 --> 01:03:52,470

talking to fill the space, and

my sister will s- pause and say,

01:03:53,330 --> 01:03:55,010

"Do you have anything to say?"

01:03:55,350 --> 01:03:59,660

And I'm like, "I'm just listening,"

which is so different from the me

01:03:59,660 --> 01:04:04,610

of 20, of like 20 years ago who

was always had something to say.

01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:14,120

And I think when we s- when we learn to

really move into who, what feels most

01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:17,830

natural to us as opposed to filling the

space, as opposed to having something

01:04:17,830 --> 01:04:25,010

to say, as opposed to being n- noticed,

then that, that essence starts to

01:04:25,010 --> 01:04:28,090

come out and we're like, "Oh, well,

yeah, this is who I've always been."

01:04:28,300 --> 01:04:28,440

And

01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:28,980

Katie Farinas: Yes

01:04:29,170 --> 01:04:35,160

Erica Voell: that the word authenticity

is overused, but like when we

01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,220

feel like our authentic selves,

then that's when we're like…