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S5E56: Transforming Local Produce, One Rooftop Greenhouse at a Time with Gotham Greens’ Viraj Puri
Episode 56 • 3rd June 2022 • Vertical Farming Podcast: CEOs & Founders in AgTech and CEA • iGrowNews
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Episode Summary

Co-founder and CEO of Gotham Greens, Viraj Puri is on a mission to transform the way we approach our food system by growing greener foods in better ways. Through his work at Gotham Greens, Viraj and his team help to build and operate sustainable greenhouses in cities across America. Today, Viraj and Harry dive deep into the urban farming industry and why it is critical to educate a future workforce of engineers, scientists and farmers to ensure its continued success. They touch on Viraj’s inspiration for launching Gotham Greens, revitalizing communities and innovating for a sustainable future.

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Key Takeaways

04:27 – Harry welcomes Co-founder and CEO of Gotham Greens, Viraj Puri, to discuss his circuitous path to vertical farming, clean technology, and the origin story of Gotham Greens

18:46 – Early lessons Viraj learned and where he gleaned inspiration along the way

22:01 – What Viraj would have done differently if given the chance

24:55 – Educating talented new engineers and farmers in the vertical farming industry

28:57 – A mission-driven organization

32:43 – Viraj reflects on his personal growth as a CEO and mentors who have helped him grow along the way

36:01 – What the future holds for Gotham Greens

40:24 – A tough question Viraj has asked himself recently and what excites him most about the future of vertical and urban farming

45:03 – Harry thanks Viraj for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can learn more about Gotham Greens

Tweetable Quotes

“One can obviously deploy technology. But then one has to also ensure that there’s a captive marketplace for those goods and services.” (11:17) (Viraj)

“That’s what’s really cool about urban farming, broadly speaking, is that it touches on so many different socioeconomic themes such as public health, environmental education, urban planning. And then, of course, you can do it the way we do it. It’s much more commercial scale and a meaningful amount of food production and supply chain transformation.” (13:20) (Viraj)

“We were and continue to be a mission-driven organization that’s deeply rooted in this ethos of trying to make the world a better place and to use fewer resources to produce healthier food.” (24:30) (Viraj)

“I think that curiosity is a really important attribute or characteristic for strong leaders. And I think the fact that we built the business from the ground up has necessitated that sense of curiosity.” (34:00) (Viraj)

Resources Mentioned

Gotham Greens Website – https://www.gothamgreens.com/

Gotham Greens Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/GothamGreens/

Gotham Greens LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/gotham-greens-farms/

Gotham Greens Twitter – https://twitter.com/gothamgreens/

Gotham Greens Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/GothamGreens/

Viraj’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/v-puri/

Sponsor Info

Cultivatd’s Website – https://cultivatd.com/

Cultivatd’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cultivatdco/

Cultivatd’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/cultivatd

Cultivatd’s Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/cultivatd/

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Mentioned in this episode:

2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews

2025 Precision Ag Report

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2025 Precision Ag Report

Transcripts

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or click the link in the show notes. Yeah, I think a lot of it

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ties back to personal values, you know, that were inculcated in

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me at a young age. I think professionally, I definitely

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came at it a little bit more from a climate change and sustainability

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lens, just reading about extreme drought conditions

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and water shortages, and that agriculture is the largest

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consumer of land on the planet and the largest consumer of fresh water and just

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all these other issues.

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Welcome

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to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with

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fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.

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Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical

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farming with your host, Harry Duran. Vertical

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Farming Podcast, Season 5. Welcome back. If this is your first time listening, I'm

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sure you are in the right place. This is the one where we speak to

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fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies from

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around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran. I'm coming to you from

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Minnesota, specifically Brainerd, Deerwood,

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northern Minnesota, parts of the state that are relatively

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new for me. I've only been a resident of Minnesota for probably about

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3 years, and it's been fascinating as someone who grew up in New York and

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lived in LA and very familiar with big cities to acclimate

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myself to life that's lived at a more, uh,

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slowed-down pace. For me, it's, it's sometimes a little different.

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So I have the benefit of being up here by a lake

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and, uh, wanted to make sure I got this episode out and share

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a little bit of what's been happening in my world. Also attended

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the Podfest conference in Orlando, and I'm actually

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looking forward to making time to get to the

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indoor AgTech conference in New York City at the end of June. That's

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still 50/50, so if you do see my face, then

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obviously I was able to make it. But I do have some past guests and

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friends that are going to be attending, so given that my family is in

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Yonkers, I may actually try and see if I can make it there. So if

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I do, it'll be nice to connect with you. In case you missed last week's

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episode, I spoke with Vonnie Estes, VP of Innovation at the Produce Marketing

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Association. She's driven by a passion for agriculture sustainability and

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wanting to make an impact on serious issues such as climate change

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and broken supply chains. And we had a really fascinating discussion on all things

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plant pathology related, educating consumers on vertical farming, promoting

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diversity. Well-received interview and episode,

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so make sure you check that out. This week I speak to Viraj

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Puri. He's the CEO of Gotham Greens,

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and Gotham Greens is on a mission to transform the way we approach our food

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system by growing greener foods in better ways. Through his work at the

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company, Viraj and his team have helped to build and operate sustainable greenhouses in

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cities across America. And today we dive deep into all

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things indoor farming, and we talk about why it's critical to educate a future workforce

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of engineers, scientists, and farmers to ensure its continued success.

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I always like to dig deep and uncover the inspiration

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for all these amazing guests that I have on the

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show as to what brought them to this point. in their

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careers. And we talk about that with Viraj, with Gotham Greens,

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and how they're really doing great work revitalizing communities and innovating

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for a sustainable future, which is something that's been top of mind for

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me lately. So I know you're going to enjoy this conversation. Okay, without further

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ado, let's jump into this conversation with Viraj. So Viraj

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Puri, CEO of Gotham Greens, thank you so much for joining me on the Vertical

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Farming Podcast. Thank you, Harry, for inviting me to be on the podcast and for

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your interest in Gotham Greens. Yeah, it's been

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interesting to see your growth and, and the fact that you've been in the space

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for such a long period of time. And, and there's probably lots of things that

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you've seen. I don't know, we're, we're new at the time when you just got

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started with Gotham Greens, but, uh, just to, to orient

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the listener, where is home for you right now? New York City.

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Okay. That's where I live and work, and that's where Gotham Greens was founded

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and has been headquartered. in since 2009. So specifically

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Brooklyn, New York. Long time. And you are right. We were one of the

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early adopters and sort of pioneers of this new

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generation of indoor farming companies across North

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America. Did you, were you raised in New York? Did you grow

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up there? I did. I split my childhood between New York and

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Chicago and a few other places. Certainly did not grow up on a farm. I

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grew up in cities and in a few suburban areas at best.

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So agriculture was certainly very, very new to me.

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I grew up in Yonkers. Home is Minneapolis now, but grew up in Yonkers, just

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outside New York City. So I was actually born in El Salvador, but came here

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when I was a year old. I say came here, my parents brought me here.

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So the city has always been not only my backyard, but I lived there as

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soon as I had the opportunity to. So really have a strong connection to the

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city. And it's interesting to see how, if you're

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just raised there, there's a different lifestyle. And I'm seeing that interesting juxtaposition

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being in the Midwest because my partner here would say like, how come you don't

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like— you're not as friendly or you don't say hi to strangers? And I'm like,

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when you grow up in the city, it's just a different way of life. And

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I'm wondering if you've noticed that in your travels, if there's a certain way

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you carry yourself as a New York City native that you find

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different than how people carry themselves when they're in other parts of the country

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or world. Look, New York is certainly a very

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unique place. It's the largest city in the US. It's the

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most cosmopolitan. the home to so many

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major industries, uh, finance,

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entertainment, media, fashion, other consumer products.

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So it, it's an exciting place to be. It attracts an enormous

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amount of resources, enormous amount of human talent. It

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certainly is, is a trendsetter in many ways. So when we set out to

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create a pilot-scale indoor

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farming project, uh, we figured what better place to do it than in

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New York City. Mm-hmm. I mean, New York is clearly not an agricultural mecca.

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But it is a city that, like I said, attracts a lot of capital,

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attracts resources, talent, media attention, and focus. And

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we had so much conviction and continue to have so much

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conviction around the value proposition for

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indoor farming as a major solution to many of the food

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systems issues that we face. So what better place to do it in

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New York City to really make an impact and publicize it

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and evangelize it and advance the mission of it.

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And I continue personally to be— personally and professionally to be

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inspired by the city every day, its

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people, its culture, its resiliency. It's a hustle

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though. It's a hustle. It's not for everybody.

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Yeah. But look, I— our company now

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operates greenhouses in 6 states and I spend a lot of time

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in other states, Rhode Island, Illinois, Colorado,

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California. We just announced new projects in Georgia and Texas.

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So I travel a fair amount and each

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project, each location has to be tailored to its

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unique sort of geographical, economic, cultural context for sure.

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I'm not one of these people who believes that it's New York City or

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nothing. I see a lot of positive attributes

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and, you know, the kind of diversity of

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locations that we have across the United States. That's what makes our country amazing.

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I'm curious about some of your background. Did you think when you were in

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college that you'd be ending up working in

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vertical farming? Absolutely not. Nowhere

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close to it. I mean, could not— I mean, if you had asked

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me to pick 1,000 possible professions, I guarantee

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you that lettuce farmer would not be one of them. So,

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uh, no, very circuitous path. Look, from a young age, I was always, even

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pre-college, I was always interested in, in the natural

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world, in the environment. And through

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college, I started gravitating toward, uh, you know, this interest

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in clean technology, broadly speaking, as a sector.

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Yeah. Because it was, it would, it was really meeting my personal and professional

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interests in using technology as a solution

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for so many of the world's sort of complex problems.

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I was really drawn to renewable energy at first. I spent the early part of

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my career working in that field. Yeah. Mobility was

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getting really interesting and exciting, city planning and

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making our cities more resource efficient. And it was really through

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a combination of environmental engineering and clean tech jobs,

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both in the US and overseas, that I sort of stumbled into controlled

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environment farming and just became enamored with

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the technology. Thought it was a technology

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that had so much potential and that it had already been commercially

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proven in so many parts of the world, but it just wasn't being done on

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this, on meaningful scale, at least in the US.

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And it certainly wasn't being marketed to consumers

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and other stakeholders as this really compelling form

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of farming. And given sort of the interest in

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New York City and in other places around more

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localized eating, more local supply chains, you know, these things were

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manifesting in like farmers markets, the popularity of farmers markets, right? You

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know, when I was growing up, no one was like, oh, let's meet at the

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farmer's market, right? But suddenly the Union Square Farmer's Market in New York City was

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the hottest place to be, right? Yeah. going into

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restaurants and seeing the name of farms on the

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actual menu. Yeah. It's all very new. Or

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hipsters in Brooklyn starting with chicken coops.

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And there you go. People are talking about beekeeping and it's suddenly hip and cool

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to be talking about livestock, right? Yeah. And your

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street cred in Brooklyn was enhanced

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exponentially if you know— If you had a

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rooftop garden. Exactly. I figured, you know, a great

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way to get popular is to become an urban farmer. No, I'm joking. But, but,

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but, you know, I was, we, we did recognize these, these consumer trends, right? Yeah.

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So I think that's the important thing that we recognized. So, you know, one

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can obviously deploy technology, but then one

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has to also ensure that there's captive marketplace

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for those goods and services, right? And we felt like the time was

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right to launch a, a

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consumer-minded brand around local farming and

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specifically in controlled environment agriculture. So

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yeah, that was back in 2009 and it's, we've come a long

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way, uh, you know, from one sort of rooftop greenhouse

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in Brooklyn to, you know, one of the largest, um,

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you know, indoor farming companies in North America. So it's been a really fun, fun

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journey. Any chance you happen to know someone by the name of Ben

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Flanner? Yes, I know Ben well. He started

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Brooklyn Grange just around the same time that we were starting

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Gotham Greens. So yeah, our paths have crossed many times over the years.

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Really, a lot of the great work that they, that they do over there.

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What's really cool about— and, you know, sometimes urban farming and vertical

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farming or indoor farming get used synonymously or interchangeably,

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but they're really different, right? Because controlled environment farming or

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indoor farming doesn't necessarily have to be urban, right? Yes. It tends to

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be, but it doesn't have to be, right? And urban farming doesn't

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have to be indoor, right? It can be outdoor. It doesn't have to

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be vertical. And what Ben and his team have done, in

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addition to commercial-scale rooftop

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seasonal production that they do on their rooftops, they've really

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been able to host so many visitors,

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and create this sort of agritourism component to urban farming, and

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educate so many youngsters and adults alike on the

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benefits of urban farming, the services that it provides

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the built environment in terms of stormwater capture and creating

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pollinators, and just making our cities more green. Yeah. But also

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showcasing opportunities to improve diets and incorporate

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fruits and vegetables into more diets and create more healthy supply chains. And So that's

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what's really cool about urban farming, broadly speaking, is that it touches on so

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many different themes, socioeconomic themes, public

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health, environmental education, urban

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planning. And then of course, if you do it sort of the way we do

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it, it's much more kind of commercial scale, meaningful amount of

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food production and supply chain transformation. So fun

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story, before I got into the world of podcasting, I used to

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work at JPMorgan Chase and then E-Trade, and Ben and I were

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coworkers. So he was working at

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E-Trade, we were working in the E-Trade marketing department. And I remember he was like,

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oh, he was telling the group, he's like, I'm gonna leave, I'm going to Brooklyn,

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I'm gonna start this like rooftop garden thing. We're like, okay, like good

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luck with that. And it's so funny, like, you know, because he just

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followed his passion, you know, and he just realized this was something that was really

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calling to him. And it's so funny to just kind of see how it come

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full circle. And then me eventually making my way in a roundabout

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way into connecting with the industry. And just, I actually haven't

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had a chance to reconnect with him, so it'll be fun when we have that

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conversation just to see how interesting

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paths our lives have taken. Definitely. That is a small

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world indeed. So we're talking 2009 and

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who were you looking to or who was inspiring you? I

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know I want to hear your origin story about how you connected with Eric.

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So, you know, maybe 2008, what's happening in your world

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like that this is becoming front and center for you? And talk a little bit

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about what that origin story looks like for Gotham.

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Yeah. So like I said, I was

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working in environmental engineering. I'd worked with a variety of

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firms, both in New York and overseas on various

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large-scale, medium-scale, small-scale solar installation

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projects. I was tinkering around with biodiesel. I

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was I worked on a fuel-efficient cookstove project in

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East Africa for about a year. I was building passive

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solar structures in a remote part of the Himalayas

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for a year. And I was getting ready to go to graduate school to get

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a degree and further my credentials and skill

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sets. And I started working at an environmental engineering firm in New

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York, and I got staffed on a small greenhouse project. It was a demonstration-scale

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greenhouse, staffed as a project manager to help build something

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called the Science Barge. which featured a hydroponic greenhouse. And I was

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really interested in learning more about that technology and working with it. And it was

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while working there that I really saw the potential for

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larger-scale hydroponic controlled environment

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agriculture in the US. And we were definitely

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at that time, even if it was sort of the mid, mid-early aughts,

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there definitely were some large-scale tomato-producing

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greenhouses that were already very established. in many parts of the

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US. There were very few producers of leafy greens indoors.

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And we really saw an opportunity. Eric and I, who

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was our co-founder and now serves as our CFO,

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both of them started to really explore the size of the market and explore

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the inefficiencies of the supply chain and how centralized the

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incumbent supply chain was and continues to be on the West

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Coast of the US, which requires all this highly perishable

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product to be shipped thousands of miles to reach consumers. And

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just the inefficiencies of that supply chain were screaming to us

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that it was sort of ripe for transformation and ripe for disruption. And

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so we started tinkering around with the business plan. I met our

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third partner in the business, Jen Freymark, who is

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a globally renowned plant scientist and really an expert in

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hydroponics. Yeah, went through a very diligent process of

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building a business plan, building a case, and had just a lot of

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conviction in the idea. So I decided to forego graduate school,

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quit my job, and launch Gotham Green. So the first couple of

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years were challenging because we really wanted to do something in New York City for

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some of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I thought if we had limited resource to

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build a pilot-scale project, then it really needed to be in New York,

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right, to really get the attention of retailers and

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restaurateurs and investors and the media and

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the general public. And that hypothesis did

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prove to be a good one and a true one. We got just

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global media attention for building

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this high-tech greenhouse on a rooftop in Brooklyn with the

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entire Manhattan skyline sort of in the background. So

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we had film crews and every news station and front page

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article of the New York Times dining section and all the rest of it. So

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I do think that that really helped not only advance Gotham Greens, but

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frankly speaking, helped to advance the entire sector more broadly speaking.

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And so we're really proud of that role that we've played and continue

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to play. So yeah, very unique origin story, but a really fun one.

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Any chance— I'd be remiss if I didn't ask if you got to connect with

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Dickson Despommiers? Oh, of course. Yeah,

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yeah, yeah. We met him early on, even before he had written his book. Oh,

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really? Okay. Yeah, I mean, he had certainly been teaching vertical farming

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to some of his students and the concept, and he had— yeah,

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but yeah, I think I first met him in 2006.

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Wow. That was before he was sort of even, you know, known as the Godfather.

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Godfather. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We go back a long way, and I continue to be

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in touch with him. Since you were so ahead of the curve, and

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obviously there's been stories of people who also started, you know, at

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or a little bit later and did not have success

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and then subsequently folded. And so as you were seeing

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companies coming up in the space, what were some of those early learnings that you

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had other than the, you know, the tomato growers that you

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mentioned? Was there anyone else you could look to for inspiration, or was

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a lot of this just really using the experience the team

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had to figure this out as you go along?

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We definitely had people who inspired us, right? There's no doubt about it, right? We

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don't have the kind of hubris or any sort of arrogance that we did this

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ourselves. But at the same time, there weren't a lot of examples to

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look at, right? The industry was so in such

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nascent stages, right? It was in such a nascent stage. It was so immature. A

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lot of the expertise we gleaned and came from overseas, frankly speaking, you

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know, spending time in Western Europe, the Netherlands, other

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places that are far further along in terms of commercial deployment of

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indoor farming systems. We really relied on Jen and her

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network, some of her university connections, all the research and

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development that she had done and her teams have been doing.

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I mean, we were— look, we really were building the plane as we were flying

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it, right? Yeah. There wasn't a lot of precedent. I mean, a lot of the

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big vendors even didn't wanna work with us because they were like,

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you're not supposed to build a greenhouse on a rooftop, right? That makes no sense.

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And it's not gonna work for a variety of reasons, right? So we had to

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find crazy enough partners who were willing to even embark on this journey

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with us. I remember getting permits and approvals was next

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to impossible from the city of New York, the building

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department, finding a company that would give us an insurance policy, finding

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a bank that would lend to us. It's 101 stuff, right? It's 101 stuff, right?

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And look, I have respect for all

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fellow entrepreneurs. I mean, it takes one to know one.

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And as an entrepreneur, you just do not ever stop working.

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And so I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for all

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sorts of entrepreneurs. But if one just starts some sort of a business, like say

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a restaurant, which is a very hard business, don't get me wrong.

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90% failure rate, I think. Restaurants that have come before you. So there is a

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playbook of sorts. Yeah. Right. This is who you get your supplies from. This is

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how you structure it. This is how you write the lease. This is how you

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finance it, et cetera, et cetera. This is how you write a job description.

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Right. But when it comes to building a

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commercial-scale indoor farm in New York City, there was really

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no blueprint to follow. Yeah. So that made it

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really, really challenging, but it made it all that much more rewarding.

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Now, with the benefit of hindsight, we certainly would've done things differently, but I,

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look, I think, I do think that that's been part of our, success is that

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we've, we had to learn a lot as we went along and it

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really forced us to walk before running

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and really just figure out how to make the

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greenhouse profitable, how to make it sustainable, how to ensure very

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reliable, consistent crop yields, how to create sort

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of good worker welfare standards and, and all these sorts of

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things, I think really helped us over the

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over the past decade. Anything, obviously hindsight

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20/20, but anything you would've done differently in those first few years

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knowing what you know now? Yeah. I mean, well, so many things. Look, I

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think one of our biggest strengths is having a diverse

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team, right? The fact that I have co-founders, the fact that

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we have complementary skill sets, I think that's something that's

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incredibly important. And with the benefit of hindsight,

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would've even brought on even more people early on. I mean, we were also

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naturally, you know, we were resource constrained, right? Yeah. So we couldn't go

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out and necessarily hire all the great talent that we

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would've wanted to have hired. And I think in hindsight, maybe we would've stretched more

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to bring in more sort of personnel. I mean, I, look, I think scale

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is definitely something that with hindsight, we would've

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made the facilities bigger. But again, we were also resource constrained, right? So we built

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a greenhouse as big as we could make it, you know,

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15,000 square feet, which is tiny in the scheme of, uh, you know,

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agriculture. It was all we could afford, right? It's all the rooftop could accommodate.

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But literally within 2 months of opening, we were completely

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sold out of all the produce, right? The demand was, you know,

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10 times that of what we were able to produce. And we were like, man,

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this just took 2 years of our life to build this thing and it's already

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at capacity. So I think with the benefit of hindsight, we would've probably made

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the facilities a little bit bigger, but again, pros and cons, and it

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really allowed us to hone in on our unit economics and our operating

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procedures and really how to run a

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very sustainable enterprise, which has served us well. I imagine

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also there's— you're hiring for jobs that previously

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didn't have like a job description, like you're creating jobs. And

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because you're so early, because you're

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sort of a bit of a pioneer in the space, it's not like

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all these people were out there doing these types of jobs that you were looking

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to fill. I think some of them, it's almost like you were creating them as

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you were going along. Yes, certainly. That's certainly the case.

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And there was just a lot of people that we had to really convince

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to join Gotham Greens, to come onto this journey with us.

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Again, I think we benefited from, as we mentioned

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earlier, that urban farming kind of had this edginess to it and this

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hipness to it. So I think that certainly attracted some great people to the

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organization. And And really, this commitment to environmental

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sustainability also spoke to a lot of job

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applicants and people who are still with us today. We were

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and continue to be a mission-driven organization that's deeply rooted in

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this ethos of trying to make the world a better place and to use fewer

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resources to produce more food, to produce healthier food, to

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incorporate more plants and fruits and vegetables into

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one's diets, and to have— making a positive impact in the communities in which we

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locate our facilities. So I think that resonated certainly with a lot of people.

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But I think, I think more broadly speaking, you are touching on a theme that

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I think is an important one, which is for this sector to really

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grow and thrive, certainly at the pace and the scale that we

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all, that we all want. You know, we are going to need a lot more

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skilled personnel, right? Yeah. I think there is a dearth of,

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of technical talent that really has the combination of

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horticultural and engineering expertise that, that the sector really

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requires. And there are so many

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companies now in our sector that are competing for very little talent,

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frankly speaking. And so we've been trying to spend time with

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various universities and research institutions and just really

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encouraging them to create more curriculum and create more

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undergraduate degrees and classes and graduate for that matter, but certainly

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undergraduate to teach people with, with the

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necessary skill sets to to immediately join a

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commercial-scale indoor farming company. I do think that that is,

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you know, a real area of need and an area that, that's very, very

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vital for this overall sector's success. And a lot of people are trying

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to out-automate, right? To say, hey, well, we'll just, we'll just create a lot of

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automation. We'll create robots and conveyors and, and all kinds

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of automated systems. But even those systems require

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Human intervention. A fair amount of technical skill to operate properly

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and service and maintain to ensure

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that we're getting the intended or the, yeah, the intended outcomes and

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generating some sort of a return on investment. So again, could not be a

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bigger evangelist for this industry, but I do think, you know, kind of

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human resources and human capital is certainly

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a challenge for the industry right now, collectively. And it seems like an

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opportunity for a conversation to happen, especially we, we

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had a brief opportunity to connect at Indoor AgCon. And I'm

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wondering, as some of these conferences come back online, if there's an

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opportunity for tracks or specifically conversations around

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education, resources, skill sets,

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trainings. I think all the things you just mentioned, if there's an opportunity there to

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just educate the need and just bring it up as an industry.

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So people can start to continue to have these conversations. Yes,

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I would love to see more educational opportunities in

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these industry conferences. I think more tracks around actual

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technology know-how is really important. Obviously there's a

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competitive aspect to it too. People obviously want to keep a lot of their

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trade secrets to themselves. I think engaging more with the

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academic community is an

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important way to go about this as well. We, we have a

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handful of land-grant universities that have controlled

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environment agriculture programs, University of Arizona,

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Ohio State, Cornell, UC Davis,

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among others. Yeah. You know, there's more than just the ones that I named.

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And I think those faculty members and administrators

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are also seeing the amount of investment that is going

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into this sector. globally, just broadly speaking in

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agtech, right? But even more

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specifically into indoor farming. So I think that's also signaling to

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them that this is an industry that's growing and we

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need more talent, right, to serve that industry. So we

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actually co-located one of our newest greenhouses with the

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University of California, Davis. We bought the land from the university and

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entered into a partnership with them to collaborate on research and development

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and staff training, sort of

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training of graduates and getting them involved into

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our organization. So we're really— we see a

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very bright future ahead there. They're one of the most

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prestigious and well-known agricultural universities in the world. So

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that's really cool. And we're continuing to do work with University of Arizona,

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Ohio State, Cornell, and others. So, and I know a lot— many of our peers

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are as well. So really happy to see that. I think that's going to be

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very key. One of the things you talked about was Gotham Greens' mission,

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Raj, and I can see from the jobs you've held

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previously and the things that were attractive to you in terms of

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what you want to study and spend your time on. Can you talk a little

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bit about why that's important for you and where that came from? Is that just

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something you've always— it's been inherent in you as a child, or is that

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something your parents instilled in you? Where's that sense of mission

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come from? Yeah, I think a lot of it ties back to personal

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values, you know, that were inculcated in me at a young

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age. I think professionally, I definitely came at it a little bit

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more from a climate change and sustainability lens,

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just reading about extreme drought conditions and water

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shortages and, you know, that agriculture is the largest

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consumer of land on the planet and the largest consumer of

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fresh water. And just all these other issues around environmental

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sustainability and just reading a lot of books early on, you know, our

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dependence on nitrogen and the impacts that it has

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and negative impacts that it has, that is in terms of runoff, in terms of

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acid rain, ozone issues. And the fact that, you know, just a

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small percentage of all the nitrogen that we, that we apply to farms is actually

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making it into our food. Hmm. You know, the fact that over 40%

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of global carbon emissions are

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attributable to some sort of farming,

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livestock, clear-cutting of land, grazing, these types of

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things. And then that's sort of juxtaposed with all the

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human health issues, right? Yeah. That the agricultural system is

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causing. I mean, we're feeding billions of mouths each day, no

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doubt, but we're also increasingly unhealthy. I mean, firstly,

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we still have close to a billion people who are malnourished, right? And then And

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then on top of that, we've got, you know, just people's— we

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spend more money on treating diabetes in this country than the entire USDA's annual

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budget, right? Wow. You know, just staggering stuff, you know, and

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60% of the calories that are consumed by Americans are coming from highly

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processed foods, right? So, you know, how we produce food, how we

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feed ourselves is just such a significant part of the climate crisis, such a

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significant part of public health issues that I

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was really excited and inspired to be part of the

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solution. I don't believe indoor farming is just this silver

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bullet, right, that can solve all these complex issues, but it certainly can

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address some of them, at least. And then, you know, it was

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after writing the initial business plan that then I started getting

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exposed to other issues around food justice,

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food security, food access, you know, the correlation between these

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high diet-related diseases to poverty and And how

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it's so centered around many urban areas where there's just a

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lack of fresh fruit and vegetables. And then I started getting exposed

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more to just issues that our cities face, you know, issues

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of stormwater runoff, the urban heat island effect, and all these other things. So,

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you know, started to look at it really from a 360-degree view and

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see that just with our modest sort of

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greenhouse, we can be really creating positive

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change and inspiring others to create positive change. So that, yeah, that just really

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started to make its way into our business plan,

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our ethos, our culture, our mission. And it's just really

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grown from there. And recently it manifested into becoming a certified

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B Corporation. Oh, congrats. From, yeah, our conversion from

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a corporation to a public benefit corporation, which is just

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a really high standard of environmental, social

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governance and creating a lot of making sure that we're really

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serving multiple stakeholders. and not just simply

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shareholders. So yeah, we're really excited to

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continue making a positive impact. Can you talk a little bit

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about your growth personally as a CEO? I imagine this is

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the first time you've had to start and grow something of this scale

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that's getting even bigger as we speak. And I'm wondering what that journey has

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been like for you. It's been an amazing one. It's been a hard

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one. It's been a challenging one. It's been one that's

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It's been phenomenal. Like you said, I've never been a CEO before. I started the

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company in my 20s, or maybe I was just about 30 at the time, but,

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but point being is I learned a tremendous amount about what it

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takes to be a leader. I continue to learn stuff every day. I

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know that there's a lot that I don't know, and I think that's really guided

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me well. We've brought in so many great people who have subject matter

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expertise in different facets of the business. And we would

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not have been able to grow the business without them. Yeah. I mean,

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just navigating that world of finance and

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fundraising and food safety and

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sales and marketing and distribution logistics, you know, every day,

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every month, every year has been just such a tremendous learning opportunity too.

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But it's great. You know, I've really learned the business from the ground up,

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Mm-hmm. which I think has also served me and my partners really well. that

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we've had to really learn along the way. So we ask a lot of

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questions. I think that curiosity is a

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really important sort of attribute or characteristic

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for strong leaders. And I think the fact that we built the

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business from the ground up has necessitated that sense of

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curiosity. And I think that's something that has been

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fantastic. And just, you know, a lot of humility along the way has also been

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important. recognizing that so much we don't know,

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I think has also served us well. I mean, we've made so many

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mistakes too, right? I mean, just dozens and dozens of mistakes along

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the way, but I'm a firm believer that those mistakes

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make you a stronger leader and more successful going forward. How has

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your relationships as you've grown the company in the industry

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itself helped you, or are there you know, relationships you've had with mentors

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that have helped you grow along the way as well? Oh yeah,

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absolutely. But a lot, a lot of personal and professional mentors along the way,

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uh, friends, family, other people I've met, um, just through, through the industry,

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or broadly speaking, in kind of the sustainability

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sector, if you will. Yeah, other folks working in, in

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conservation, natural resource conservation, renewable

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energy. So I have some mentors that, that helped me along the way

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there. Other natural food entrepreneurs, that's been a really cool ecosystem to be a part

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of. Is, I mean, there's been so much transformation across

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consumer food and beverage, right? That I'm sure all your listeners are

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well aware of. You know, at the same time in Brooklyn,

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right, when the farmers markets and the beekeeping was getting, uh, was getting

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cool, I mean, so was kombucha and Greek yogurt and

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plant-based foods and things like that, right? So there's just such a strong

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cohort of other— Now it's cellular agriculture.

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Exactly, exactly. So it's been great to learn from

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other startup food brands as well. Yeah. And so

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for folks that are new to Gotham Greens, Viraj, can you talk a little

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bit about what your current roadmap looks like? I've been

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conscious of being more aware as I'm in the supermarket And I was in

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Whole Foods and I did see the Gotham Greens leafy greens

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and the pesto as well. So I was like, oh, okay, I have to make

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sure I try that in advance of my conversation with you. So I had a

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really good experience. But that's an awareness that we have as consumers

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that are looking for it. So I'm wondering if you could speak to what

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the current roadmap is for Gotham Greens in terms of expansion

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and what the plans look like for the future. Sure.

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So just a snapshot of where we are today. We,

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a decade after launching, we now have 9 greenhouse

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facilities across 6 US states, um, and counting with,

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with over 400 employees. So we own and operate

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greenhouses in New York, Illinois, Rhode Island,

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Maryland, Colorado, and California. Our

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products are primarily leafy greens, herbs, also

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some sauces and dressings and pestos that you

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mentioned, and they're currently available in almost

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45 states, approximately 3,500 retail

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stores around the country. And so it's one of the

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largest networks and one of the largest footprints of

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greenhouses and sort of indoor farming in North America.

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And what's really next is continuing to expand this footprint of

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greenhouse facilities. So We're adding a facility in Colorado

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to expand our production capacity for the Mountain West

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region. We have broken ground

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on new projects in Texas, which is outside

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Dallas, and in Georgia, outside Atlanta, as

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well as expanding some of our existing greenhouses in both

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Chicago and Providence, Rhode Island. So we're going to be

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doubling the size of our greenhouse capacity in less than 12 months

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from, from about 600,000 square feet today to

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over 1.2 million square feet by the end of

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2022. So upon completion, that'll be

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then 12 high-tech greenhouses across 8 states.

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This is just such a large market. Yeah. And it's

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so underpenetrated by indoor farms that,

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that we just think there's room for growth for a lot of different companies.

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But yeah, we're, we're probably among the fastest growing and have the largest footprint, but

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Again, we can't do this ourselves, nor do we want to do this ourselves. I

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think this is an industry that's going to have

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multiple brands and multiple key players servicing such a

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large market. And given all the headwinds that the incumbent industry

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is facing in California and Arizona, right? So these are the open

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field farms, and I'm sure many of our listeners are very familiar with

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these kind of mega trends, but the water situation's not getting

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better. The freight and logistics situation's not getting better. Yeah. Food safety is a

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challenge. The reliance on migrant farm workers is a

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challenge. And I think a lot of the retailers and the institutional food

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buyers are all pretty convinced that the future

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is in much more decentralized kind of indoor production.

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And now it's really incumbent on us and our cohort peers

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to now rise to the occasion to meet this tremendous opportunity

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and actually get these facilities built and get them operating. And

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produce the consistent, reliable crop yields that are expected of us, right?

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And to do so in a financially profitable way. I mean, we certainly got our

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work cut out for us, but I certainly see a very bright future ahead.

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So speaking of your cohort of peers, how happy are you to have the

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conferences coming back online and that ability to have those connections? I know you

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were on a panel or two at Indoor AgCon, and there's an event coming up

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in New York City. Are those events important for you to have

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those conversations with peers and then see what else is happening in the space?

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I think so. I think so. I think they have, they certainly have

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value. I think it's good to get out there and meet people and

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see what others are up to and have good conversation. And I

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also just think from, from 2 years of staying

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at home and being quarantined, it's really nice to get out and see people again,

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exchange notes, and just be inspired by the work that's being

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done by the entire sector. It's hard to get to all the events because there's

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so many of them, but yeah, to get out to a couple of them a

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year, I think is fantastic. A couple of questions as

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we wrap up. What's a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

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Pace of growth, questions around pace of growth, like how much is too much, how

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aggressively to grow, how measured to grow. I think that's a huge question. I think

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we're, more broadly speaking, in the financial markets,

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there's been a lot of turmoil. I think This is a capital-intensive

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industry, right? Yeah. That I'm sure you know, and many of your listeners

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know, right? So we can't really talk about scale without talking about

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capital, I think, in this business. And I think just over the last 5

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or 10 years, the investment community has

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been very pro-growth oriented. And

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even if that comes at the expense of sustainability and

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profitability, and we're starting to see a little bit of a shift, right? Capital has

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been cheap. Now it's getting a little bit more expensive. we're seeing a little

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bit more of an emphasis on, at least certainly in public markets, what they say

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is more value stocks and less on growth stocks. And

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so I think that is something that we think a lot about, how aggressively to

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grow from a financial fiduciary standpoint, but also

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from an operation standpoint. I mean, we have the benefit of running a

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decentralized multi-site model for

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the past 7 or 8 years. So I think we certainly

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have this inherent advantage, but it's hard running a decentralized operation. So I think some

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of those questions, you know, around that have been, you know,

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there's no right answer, but those have been some of the more challenging ones to

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sort of grapple with. So in terms of what's coming up

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on the horizon and what you have planned, is there anything else

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you're looking forward to or where you go to learn more about what's happening in

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industry, or are you kind of like just heads down? You know, you got your

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plate full with what you have on your roadmap. We've touched

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upon a lot of it. I think that we really just have a lot of

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work cut out for us. Like I said, as an industry collectively, us and many

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of our peers have very ambitious expansion plans. We're seeing millions

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of square feet of different types of indoor facilities getting built.

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And, you know, I think there's a huge responsibility. We've garnered a lot of media

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attention, you know, a lot of investor attention. And now I just,

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again, think we need to deliver now. I think that's really, really important collectively.

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So I think that's our biggest focus is on execution, right? Personally, we don't really

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have any— I mean, we announced these new projects, right? So that's big news for

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us. Doubling our footprint is a huge undertaking and

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not one that we take lightly. We think there's a lot of room to grow

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within the leafy green category. So we're sort of focused there right now. I know

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some of our peers are launching some new items, going into different

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categories like berries. But again, we think there's a lot of room to grow in

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the leafy greens. So no new sort of shiny objects for us,

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just really putting our heads down and focusing on execution.

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And given just the specific nature of this audience, is there any

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ask you would have to the listeners or to your colleagues or peers?

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Anyone who might be listening to this episode? Well, please continue supporting the

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sector. I think it's one that can, can play a really important

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role globally in making our food systems more

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resilient, more sustainable. Yeah, you can certainly do a

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lot by, you know, kind of voting with your dollars, right? So spending,

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spending money supporting the products that our sector produces, I think, is

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also something that you can certainly help out on. But also, don't be, don't be

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afraid to ask the tough questions. I think the tough questions also make us better

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at what we do. You know, I think there's also an obligation for us to

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continue to push the envelope in terms of environmental sustainability.

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I think just a lot of people believe that indoor farming is just

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synonymous with environmental sustainability, and that certainly is true,

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but it also still would come down to the actual means and

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methods of how you're producing the food, how you're handling water, how you're

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handling energy use, and things like that. Yeah. So I think just to be

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responsible corporate stewards, I think it's also really

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important to continue to push the envelope, you know, in terms of sustainability.

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But no, I really appreciate your audience. You know, when we started this business 10

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years ago, I mean, I know podcasts may not have been around, but

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just indoor farming and vertical farming and controlled environment

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farming, I mean, it was not well known.

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No. In personal or professional settings, you know, I would get bizarre

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looks from people when I told them what I was up to, sort of like

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that story you were telling about Ben. Yeah, yeah. Leaving E-Trade,

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you're like, oh, that's— this guy's nuts. And now fast

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forward 10, 11 years to see the fact that we're on this

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podcast. Yeah, it's crazy. There's others like it. There's industry conferences

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specifically for indoor farming. Just goes

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to show what a tremendous opportunity there is and how far

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the industry's come. So it's awesome that you have this audience, and,

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um, it's been really fun. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah. Well,

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congrats to you and the team, and I applaud you for being an early pioneer

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in the space and paving the way for, for a lot of companies who

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probably, you know, were inspired by you and the work that you've done at Gotham

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Greens. So thank you for taking the time to come on. gothamgreens.com if

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anyone wants to learn more. Anywhere else you want to send people to connect with

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you or the team? Well, thanks for having me on, Harry. I really appreciate it

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and your audience's time. And yeah, gothamgreens.com is fantastic.

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And then we've got some social channels that can be accessed through, through the

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website. We'll make sure to include all those in the notes as well. Thanks for

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your time. I really appreciate it, Viraj. All the best. Thanks. Thanks again

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to Viraj for coming on the show. Always appreciate when

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my guests take an hour of their very, very busy schedules to share

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their story. I never take that time for granted. Full show notes are

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available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Special thanks to our season 5

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title sponsor, Cultivatd. If you are looking into a vertical farm and don't know where

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to start or which technology would suit your needs, reach out to them today.

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Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners.

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Learn more at cultivatd.com, and that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com.

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Yes, you know it already. Leave out that last E. Podcast production and marketing

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provided by Fullcast. Learn more at fullcast.co.

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About how a podcast can be beneficial for your marketing needs.

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As a reminder, if you are enjoying this show, please leave us a rating and

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a review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp.

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Regular listeners can testify to the fact that I will be sure to read these

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out on future episodes. Tune in next week for my conversation with

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Max Lossall. He's the co-founder and CEO of Agvolution.

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Until we meet again next week, here's to your health. Cheers. Thanks

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for listening. To read the full show notes for this episode, which

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includes any links mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show

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transcription, visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

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There, you can sign up for our email list to be notified when new

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episodes are published.

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