Shownotes
When it comes to running an online store, the highs and lows of paid traffic can feel like a rollercoaster. Learn to master the feast-or-famine of paid traffic so you can stay ahead in the eCommerce game!
In this episode, Kasim sits down with eCommerce Marketing & Business Development Consultant, James Crame, and they discuss strategies from understanding who your customers are to employing techniques for when those low periods occur to ensure success when running paid traffic.
Don't let paid traffic intimidate you! Join Kasim and James as they provide practical advice on any difficulties you may face with paid traffic.
Connect with James Crame on LinkedIn:
Mentioned links:
Post Pardon Me: A fickle woman's spiral into postpartum depression and anxiety and how the hell she found her way out of it. (Sort of.) by Suzanne Yatim Aslam: https://www.amazon.com/Post-Pardon-Me...
Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/
0:00 Mastering the Highs and Lows of Paid Traffic for eCommerce Success
3:49 You should know who your customers are
8:29 The risks of the feast-or-famine in paid traffic
14:56 You can hire someone on Fiverr to check your site
16:22 What to do during the famine period in paid traffic for eCommerce
20:33 Ask your friends in the marketplace
23:47 Dealing with a customer on meltdown mode
31:20 Advice for those new to paid traffic for eCommerce
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Transcripts
Scott's from the day the Google news and I'm excited about today's
2
:topic because it's one that terrifies
me and it probably terrifies you
3
:too, even if you don't realize it
I'm joined with my new buddy, James
4
:Crane, James, thanks for being here.
5
:No, no problem at all.
6
:And James, I think like When you
described what it is that you do, I
7
:immediately thought to myself, man,
I wish somebody did that for me.
8
:for my listener who wasn't there during
our prerecord, James is an e commerce
9
:consultant that choppers into e com
businesses, tries to learn everything
10
:that he can about the business, top
to bottom, left to right, goes as
11
:deep as he can, and then works towards
optimizing , whatever the business needs.
12
:And so that could be visibility
or CRO or backend or, wherever he
13
:sees The chance for improvement.
14
:How did I do there?
15
:Is that the way you describe it?
16
:Yeah, pretty much.
17
:Improving product offering,
working out where the gaps are,
18
:trying to fix problems, really.
19
:So just kind of choppers into
the specialist works really
20
:close with e commerce brands.
21
:Currently accepting new clients.
22
:Yeah, definitely.
23
:So if you're an econ brand and you sound
like you want somebody who, does what
24
:James does reach out to him, I'll include
his contact info in the description
25
:of this video, James shot me an email
he just had an idea for a video and
26
:I was like, dude, that's brilliant.
27
:Let's do it together.
28
:And the idea I'll try to put it in a
nutshell, James, and then I'll ask you
29
:to expand upon it, but it's basically,
what do we come business owners?
30
:In order to contend with the feast
or famine that is specifically paid
31
:traffic, but just digital marketing in
general, because if you've been running
32
:e com campaigns for 48 hours, you know
that there are these insane peaks and
33
:valleys, and they're inexplicable.
34
:, it feels like when you're in
a valley, it feels like you're
35
:doing something horribly wrong.
36
:And when you're at a peak, it
feels like you're a genius.
37
:And neither is true, by the way, like
both of those things are incorrect.
38
:How did I do defining the problem there?
39
:pretty bang on.
40
:I mean, we all dream of that level playing
field where you take your entire year's
41
:revenue and divide it into 365 days.
42
:So, you know, what's coming
in every day of the week.
43
:But the reality is that's not the case.
44
:And you can really go from those
highs, like you say, to those lows.
45
:And there's a big temptation to make some
dangerous decisions when those lows hit.
46
:it's hard to, to mitigate
those really, I guess.
47
:So a question that maybe is a little more
marketing philosophy or even conspiracy
48
:theory before we get into the specifics.
49
:why do you think that happens?
50
:Is it algorithmic?
51
:Is it market?
52
:Is it a combination of both?
53
:I think it's a combination of both.
54
:I think even sometimes it can
be seasonality that you don't
55
:intrinsically understand that
is part of your marketplace.
56
:And again, that's more
dangerous for the newcomer.
57
:Because like obvious things like
seasonality can be you sell snowshoes
58
:and it's the first day of summer.
59
:Your sales are probably going to tank
and it's pretty obvious why, right?
60
:But Say for instance, you sell takeaway
packaging and you don't realize it,
61
:but a big portion of your customer
base might be selling to schools.
62
:If there's some holiday starts,
your sales are going to decline.
63
:You may not necessarily know why,
or it might just be the weather.
64
:And those sort of things do
happen behind the scenes.
65
:And I feel that's
probably a big part of it.
66
:Obviously, you've got general market
trends, such as a financial crisis,
67
:so on and so forth, energy prices
that people worry about, and that
68
:might cause a general depression.
69
:But the big swings, I think, generally
tend to be, in my opinion, at least,
70
:behind the scenes are seasonality driven
and elements to the marketplace you
71
:might not immediately understand or
know why they happen down the chain.
72
:Can I tell you two stories?
73
:Go for story number one, we had a client
that sold among other things, but one
74
:of their core product offerings was
a special type of industrial cleaner
75
:that was meant to, that was meant to
clean a very specific types of metal.
76
:And the, the implementation of which
was mostly for like machining shops.
77
:In this story, it gets so interesting
because we ran into this, they
78
:had this huge sales decline,
couldn't figure out how or why.
79
:And It wasn't even us
that, cracked the code.
80
:They, they had a third party
consultant that came in to help
81
:them clean up their emails.
82
:And the person came in to clean up their
emails, they had a huge email database
83
:and they hadn't cleaned it in forever.
84
:And so they were just trying to like
figure out how to solve the problem
85
:across all levels of analysis.
86
:And this email guru Asked what's
the deal with great clips.
87
:And they're like, what do you mean?
88
:and she was like, you have a ton of people
from great clips in your email database.
89
:and they ended up tracking all the
way back that great clips is a massive
90
:franchise, by the way, it's like 42,
000 franchise owners or something.
91
:At one point in one of the great
clip member forums, somebody said,
92
:in order to clean your clippers,
we found that this solution works
93
:really, really, really well.
94
:they, somebody mentioned this
industrial cleaner that's meant for
95
:machining shops, but also apparently.
96
:cleans clippers.
97
:that one mentioned got added to
the great clips SOP as far as like
98
:the products that they were buying.
99
:And all these haircut, 42, 000,
not all 42, 000, but a ton of
100
:them were buying this stuff.
101
:when COVID landed all the,
haircut places closed.
102
:And so they stopped buying
everything, including the solution.
103
:But what I thought was so interesting.
104
:is they had no idea for, ostensibly years
that a bunch of hair salons were buying
105
:their product because they never asked.
106
:They never asked.
107
:They never checked.
108
:They were as shocked
as everybody else was.
109
:And if you're watching this, don't
assume, you know, who your customers
110
:don't assume, you know, who it
is that's on the receiving end,
111
:because Unless you ask, you're never
really going to have the full view.
112
:And that's all they
needed to do was just ask.
113
:And that's so easy.
114
:It's post purchase survey
follow up email NPS scoring.
115
:But I just thought that that was
like the best, most poignant example
116
:I've ever heard of, Oh, you have
no idea who your customer is.
117
:It's amazing.
118
:And it is often those small things
that you find out from like, like
119
:the email trail that you suddenly
go, This is why that happened.
120
:Yeah.
121
:Which is funny.
122
:Cause I didn't, I mean I've got 16,
000 people on my email database.
123
:Which is funny.
124
:we just wiped it clean and we got.
125
:we started over and, I haven't
looked at that or segmented it.
126
:I'm such a massive
hypocrite, but weird story.
127
:Number two on the same topic that you
offered me and my business partner,
128
:John, talk about this all the time.
129
:At solutions eight, when we're doing lead
generation, now that's not e commerce.
130
:But I'd be interested in your
opinions on this because I think
131
:that , the two play together.
132
:We run lead gen campaigns for
ourselves and what we've noticed,
133
:and this has happened for years
is all of a sudden I'll get like.
134
:a pet supplement company, and
then I'll get another one.
135
:So I'll get two pet supplement
companies back to back, and then
136
:I'll get like travel broker,
and then I'll get another one.
137
:and there's this weird theme where when
I get a lead from a specific industry
138
:or vertical, I'm almost guaranteed to
get another lead from that vertical.
139
:People talk.
140
:Is that it?
141
:So, man, gosh, because we go back and
forth, like, I keep thinking, is Google
142
:trying to match based off of such
specific demographic and psychographic
143
:profiling factors that when it sees a
conversion from somebody that matches
144
:an avatar, it's just that much more
likely to give me that same avatar?
145
:And if that's the case, maybe
that carries over into the
146
:Feaster family we see with Ecom.
147
:Yeah, yeah, you're probably
right, and it's a bit of both.
148
:I mean, I know from embedding myself into
certain industries, You know, a lot of
149
:people in those industries after a few
years and you then have relationships
150
:and find out who's using this for that
and who's getting their stuff from where,
151
:and that dialogue can be quite casual.
152
:Even competitors will have
relationships with each other.
153
:So if they don't see that company is a
massive threat to them, they're maybe
154
:in a different town or a different
city where they're not on each other's,
155
:like turning on each other's toes, it's
possibly could just be word of mouth.
156
:You struggle to find that out.
157
:The risks of the feast or famine.
158
:So first bullet point I have for me, you
hear is how this can be really dangerous
159
:for newcomers because you induce panic,
you make horrible rash decisions.
160
:So talk to specifically our newbies
prep them, like let's coach them
161
:on, Hey, here's what to expect.
162
:And this is why it's fine.
163
:going from experience here when I
first started out, you'd be having,
164
:sales start to climb gradually, you
notice these trends, you're selling,
165
:I don't know, 10 items a day.
166
:It's great.
167
:You're all happy.
168
:And then all of a sudden it stops and you
have a day where the phone doesn't ring.
169
:There's no sales going out the door and
you kind of like, what did I do wrong?
170
:Now there's plenty of things you can do.
171
:Even further wrong at that point, such
as immediately making changes to your
172
:pricing, just going wild and assuming
it's something along those lines that
173
:say suddenly need to have like an offer
that's going to attract more people in or
174
:something or even changing website teams.
175
:I've seen people do that.
176
:they get a decline and they're like,
I just need to rebrand my site.
177
:It, it must be something to do with
that without really even researching
178
:into it, which is completely crazy.
179
:But, there's lots of things you can do
which really can protect you from making
180
:any crazy decisions and one of those
things is When you first set your site
181
:up, I guess, get an idea, get Google
analytics installed for one even just to
182
:use it as a benchmark of how many users
you're getting a day so that you look
183
:on the real time view and when I go on
here around lunchtime, there's usually
184
:200 people browsing or a hundred people
browsing, whatever that number is, you
185
:can get a benchmark of what's going on.
186
:And again, there's.
187
:Plenty of other places you can create
these benchmarks, your Merchant Center
188
:account, if you have one your AdWords
account, if you're running ads you can
189
:use Lighthouse, you can use Clarity so
Lighthouse I mentioned because you may
190
:want to benchmark your page speed before
you even have a problem, just to get an
191
:idea of how your pages behave and what
an acceptable load time is, getting
192
:an idea of how your, Normal behavior
of your website is even right at the
193
:start is a good point to be at because
then when things do go wrong, you kind
194
:of got a checklist that you can run
through to say, do things look healthy?
195
:Do things look like they normally
look when things are good?
196
:Cause that's a good indicator
that you are not the problem.
197
:And more so it could be an external
factor like seasonality, et cetera.
198
:You hit on quite a few things
there that I want to revisit.
199
:But there's an overarching theme
that I think is brilliant when you're
200
:attempting to diagnose the first of all,
you have a problem, try to diagnose it.
201
:Don't react right prescription
without diagnosis.
202
:Yeah, I'll practice because I've
seen like kind of view the situation.
203
:Yeah, I've seen people do that
to change the website changes
204
:the offer change the name.
205
:tell this story all the time.
206
:It's obnoxious, but we
were running an email.
207
:Marketing campaign and the
email was performing poorly.
208
:And so I was tweaking
the body of the email.
209
:And when we dug into it, it was the
subject line that was performing poorly
210
:because nobody was opening the damn email.
211
:So I'm tweaking a body
that's not even being read.
212
:But that's not, if you go to the
thing that you think you're good
213
:at or that you think you can fix.
214
:So if you run into this problem the
way to diagnose the problem is to look
215
:at what, what's the lead indicator,
which is, I love that you mentioned the
216
:Google analytics thing because if my
sales drops today, the first question
217
:is, well, did my traffic drop today?
218
:Exactly.
219
:Because if my traffic did
not drop today, now I know.
220
:There's potentially a problem on site.
221
:But if my traffic dropped, now
I know, alright, let's go look
222
:at, now is that organic traffic?
223
:Paid traffic?
224
:Referral traffic?
225
:Email traffic?
226
:Yeah.
227
:But it gives you the ability to begin to
figure out what is it that's going on.
228
:Pitching, holing, and separating out
what those potential Aggravating factors
229
:might be where that problem may exist.
230
:So obviously if you find that
it's your traffic is still the
231
:same, then yeah, you need to start
looking at does your checkout work?
232
:Does your add to cart button work?
233
:Can you go through the checkout on a
different browser to your normal browser?
234
:Checkout as a guest, checkout on a
different remote like internet provider?
235
:I've seen all sorts of weird
things in the past where...
236
:Even ISPs have had an issue and all
of a sudden some of your website
237
:doesn't work because you're relying
on a third party piece of code that's
238
:maybe just not being passed through
the network properly, I guess.
239
:But It's surprising how many people
don't check out their actual site
240
:functionality when they have a
problem and they don't realize that
241
:it's their site that's at fault.
242
:I know when you guys do
your onboarding, right?
243
:You make sure that
people's checkouts work.
244
:Because.
245
:People often have issues.
246
:I mean, really, really, I'm almost
ashamed to admit this, but when I was
247
:lot more inexperienced I had a site that
was running for about three years with a
248
:broken checkout and I had no idea because
at no point did I think, I'll check out as
249
:a guest and then go and try and change my
address, which happens quite frequently.
250
:People get offered through a checkout
and decide, do you know what?
251
:I need to deliver it to my neighbor
because I'm not going to be in maybe.
252
:And when you do that, it choked out the
checkout and wouldn't let you back in.
253
:And.
254
:It was infuriating and it's like I had
no idea that that problem even existed.
255
:And when I found it, I kicked myself
because I saw about a 30 percent
256
:increase in sales straight away
afterwards when I sorted it out.
257
:So there are silly things like that
that you really do need to test and
258
:you need to be kind of testing that
anyway as a matter of best practice.
259
:I think making sure that your
website actually functions properly.
260
:And like I say, making sure you
can check out as a guest think
261
:this is more important for websites
that are self hosted, not so much
262
:Shopify where it's kind of harder
to break things that substantial.
263
:although Shopify can break, I
mean, you can break it if you try
264
:real, real hard, especially for me.
265
:You can break anything
if you try hard enough.
266
:Yeah.
267
:I have proven that theory.
268
:My wife she wrote a book it's called
Postpartum Me, go buy my wife's book.
269
:She wrote a book and she
wanted to get speaking gigs.
270
:And so we sent out like press
releases and, we had some kind
271
:of put some fire behind it.
272
:And she wasn't getting any responses.
273
:And it was a couple of months into it.
274
:She went to her website and
there's a contact us form.
275
:And she tried to fill out the form on the
website and it just didn't work, period.
276
:And the minute we fixed
the form, same story.
277
:She starts getting a ton of
like, inquiries for podcast
278
:speaking stage, whatever.
279
:And it was devastating because.
280
:That's after all the marketing stopped.
281
:It's like, what did we miss
out on for that time where
282
:the form wasn't even working?
283
:I just wrote a Twitter thread about this.
284
:Go hire somebody on Fiverr.
285
:Say, I'm gonna pay you whatever, a month.
286
:20 bucks a month or something.
287
:It's the best 20 a month
anybody will ever spend.
288
:What would even be even better is...
289
:Because there's a bunch of people on
Fiverr that will check your website
290
:for you and they check, you know, all
links, all conversion opportunities, all
291
:browsers, all devices or a myriad of them.
292
:Cause I don't think there's a
way to truly check all of them.
293
:And what I would do is
I'd offer them a bounty.
294
:I'd be like, Hey man, for every.
295
:Mistake you catch that's
actually a significant mistake.
296
:I'll give you a buck or I'll give you
10 bucks or whatever it is properly
297
:incentivized to go do it, but they'll
record themselves on loom, walking
298
:through your website, checking it.
299
:Because things break all the time.
300
:we added a chat widget recently to a
website and there was just a conflict
301
:of code for an external chat widget.
302
:I think it broke an option set on one
of those sites and you couldn't select
303
:options and not every product has options.
304
:So it's kind of like, We
just caught it by chance.
305
:And we're like, Hey, hang on
a minute, we can't do this
306
:certain function on the website.
307
:And it was a critical function.
308
:So it is really important.
309
:think an important takeaway
is you're never above that.
310
:You need to make sure that no matter how
big your website is, you, you need to
311
:be checking these things are working.
312
:Cause it can creep in.
313
:It only takes a developer to drop
a slight theme change that pushes
314
:an important button off the side
of the page somewhere by accident.
315
:It happens.
316
:I love that.
317
:You're never above that.
318
:your next note, how to keep a cool
head and what to do during the
319
:famine period, you've got, I don't
want to say an SOP, but you have
320
:some advice to people as to, what to
do, steps and processes, et cetera.
321
:Yeah.
322
:we've touched on quite a
bit of it already, I guess.
323
:first thing, have you made any
changes to your website recently?
324
:There's like the first thing checking
your site actually functions.
325
:So we've covered making sure your cart
works, your checkout works, you can
326
:register as a guest, you can register.
327
:So on and so forth, multiple devices that
you can use, is it displaying properly?
328
:Once you've kind of worked through
that and you've worked out that
329
:it's not the functionality of your
site, then like you say, if your
330
:traffic's good, you need to start
looking at potentially your offering.
331
:what we will tend to do is we'll go
and do what we call a visibility check.
332
:we will go on to Google,
we will go and see if our.
333
:Product placement is good for Google
shopping ads, for instance, if it's e
334
:commerce, the search ads are there, that
your normal organic rankings are there.
335
:So if you're using a tool like SEMrush
if you've set that up previously
336
:to your outage you should have an
idea of where some of your best
337
:performing keywords sit normally.
338
:And you can go and look at those and go
and say, right, I used to be position
339
:three for my best selling product.
340
:Has that now gone?
341
:is that disappeared?
342
:Once you've kind of said,
right, I'm definitely there
343
:still, is your offering good?
344
:Is your pricing right?
345
:Is there a new competitor that's kind of
beating you to the punch on their pricing
346
:so that you're getting some of the clicks
and you're seeing the traffic maybe,
347
:but because people kind of, I don't know
if I'm the only person who does this.
348
:I feel like a lot of people do.
349
:I've definitely got a friend who has
way too many tabs open all the time.
350
:I go down the line.
351
:I'm like, open, open, open, open, open.
352
:Exactly.
353
:So you get all the visitors.
354
:But if someone's price is cheaper,
you just see that as a bounce, right?
355
:And you've got to make sure you're
offering offerings competitive.
356
:Now, your offering can be competitive
in a number of ways, right?
357
:It can be, delivery speed might be
the way your offering is better.
358
:It might not always be priced.
359
:So that's worth considering.
360
:But if someone's significantly cheaper
than you, that's always like a really
361
:painful factor and that's something
that you might find and think, okay,
362
:this is my best selling product.
363
:I'm normally selling a
hundred of these a day.
364
:It's stopped.
365
:Is this new competitor that's just
popped up is now occupying the top
366
:product shopping bar, and I'm focusing
on shopping cause it's an easiest one
367
:to use as sort of an example of this.
368
:are they poaching your customers?
369
:You're still getting the traffic, but
you're not getting the transactions.
370
:And that might be a factor.
371
:And that can be a factor if your
traffic's dropped as you might see
372
:less traffic because this people aren't
even getting to your website, maybe.
373
:If that's not the case, then you kind of
need to start looking into your merchant
374
:center, make sure that your feed is,
you're getting a click through rates,
375
:you're getting all those sort of things
that you need to see when, that indicate
376
:your site is healthy at that point.
377
:go through, we'll make sure that
you're visible, your offering is good.
378
:If that's all good, you can kind of
start to breathe a bit easier because
379
:you kind of then know It's just a
trend in the market and it doesn't
380
:necessarily mean it's always, a
trend in the market, but you've got
381
:a good indication that it's not you.
382
:if your pricing is good, visible.
383
:Why wouldn't people be buying
from you like they normally are?
384
:I mean, there are other factors you
can find when you're in that process.
385
:Like your ads aren't there.
386
:Has your card been declined?
387
:iT happens.
388
:especially with the, like, obviously
Google changes sometimes hard to predict
389
:what your spend is going to be, right?
390
:depending on how your account's set up
and I've seen multiple accounts where
391
:they're like, Oh, our ads aren't working.
392
:I don't know why.
393
:And it's.
394
:There's a card declined email
in some admin inbox somewhere
395
:that they don't know about.
396
:but yeah, I mean, that's, once
you've done all that, there
397
:are other things you can do.
398
:And we talked about having friends
in the marketplace and how you
399
:can kind of get an idea of who's.
400
:Who else is in the marketplace that
you deal with on a daily basis.
401
:So your suppliers, et cetera.
402
:what an interesting, you go ask
them, you're like, Hey, casually.
403
:Yeah.
404
:How are things going?
405
:Like, you busy?
406
:What's going on in a casual way?
407
:Don't, don't obviously pick
up the phone and go, Hey.
408
:Our sales have stopped.
409
:Please help.
410
:Oh, I do that now.
411
:I'll call my agency buddies and be
like, dude, I am bleeding right now.
412
:Like what is the, what is going on?
413
:And it's always interesting because, I've
got some friends that I'm close enough
414
:to where they're like, Oh no, me too.
415
:And that's when I'm like, thank
God, But the minute, they're like,
416
:Oh man, we're just crushing life.
417
:That's when I know, okay, I suck at
something and I need to go figure it out.
418
:Something's wrong.
419
:Yeah.
420
:Well, now it's just time
to diagnose what it is.
421
:But I think Biggest thing that
I take away from the situation.
422
:Once all you've gone down that list of
panic and what's going on and try and
423
:diagnose everything you can and you've,
get to the bottom of the part and you're
424
:like, okay, I've given myself a small
checklist of jobs because I found out
425
:that there is a new supplier that's got
a better image than I've got to Mm-Hmm.
426
:Drag people in or a better headline
on their ads, or they've got a better
427
:page title on my bestselling product.
428
:So I need to make some changes
or I've, I've lost an ad rank.
429
:Search into position.
430
:maybe I need to go revisit some of my
page content and get that bumped up.
431
:But once you've gone through that,
you've got like a nice window
432
:where you can kind of go, right.
433
:I don't need to panic so much.
434
:I don't need to make any knee
jerk reactions, which is a
435
:fatal mistake in my opinion.
436
:You can then adjust those few
things that you've actually taken a
437
:measured approach Take some time to
actually get on with your normal job.
438
:It's a terrible, terrible thing when,
and I don't know if I'm terrible.
439
:I'm saying this is a bad thing to do
and don't do it, but I do it myself.
440
:You can find yourself just staring
analytics and trying to wish sales
441
:into the inbox and you're like,
come on, I need another inquiry.
442
:I need another order.
443
:Come on, we need to do this.
444
:You're not going to, you're
not going to change anything
445
:by just staring at your inbox.
446
:You might as better off using that time
to be productive and just get on with
447
:what you were planning on doing that
day before the phone stopped ringing.
448
:Yeah, I had a business partner who
was maybe the best salesperson I've
449
:ever known in my entire life, and he
always used to say we don't control
450
:our results, we control our activity.
451
:And that always used to frustrate me
because I was like, well, I want results.
452
:I don't want activity.
453
:and you know, he was a hardcore sales guy.
454
:So his whole thing was like,
how many calls have you made?
455
:Cause if you haven't made a hundred
calls, you're not going to make a sale.
456
:And if you make a hundred calls at
clockwork, you're going to make the sale.
457
:And I feel like the same thing
is true for econ, maybe not.
458
:Why it is connected, but it's
how much content you're creating.
459
:How many links have you built?
460
:How many strategic
partnerships have you built?
461
:How many booths have you done?
462
:How many videos have you shot?
463
:How much are you doing on social?
464
:And you'll figure out what the
equivalent of your a hundred calls is.
465
:And now, you know, I've made my a hundred
calls and if things are down, you sort
466
:of know what levers to go pull on.
467
:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
468
:That's a, that's a good takeaway.
469
:I mean, I was going to ask
actually I guess you must get this.
470
:How do you deal with clients when
they suddenly come to you and go,
471
:Hey, the phones have stopped ringing.
472
:is there like a internal strategy
that you guys have to like mitigate a
473
:customer who's in full on meltdown mode?
474
:Yeah, so here's my advice to agencies.
475
:Number one, I'm so afraid of
saying this because I know this
476
:is going to be thrown back at me.
477
:We should be first one saying it.
478
:So we do it depending on the client spend.
479
:if they're not spending a ton, well,
, the longest period of time that will go
480
:without looking at a count of three days.
481
:So if you're spending, you know,
five grand a month, it's probably a
482
:three day check in because there's
just nothing you can do between.
483
:Yeah, you have to have
time to build it, right?
484
:Right.
485
:So every three days we're going to
jump in and if we notice a downtrend,
486
:especially if it's distinct, what I want
my team to do is just reach out and just
487
:be like, Hey James, just so you know,
I saw a drop, probably not a big deal,
488
:but I'm going to keep an eye on it.
489
:And that, if you're an agency or an
agency owner or a client manager,
490
:that alone is the thing that will
build trust and maintain trust
491
:with the client for a millennia.
492
:And what sucks for most agencies
is most of them are doing the work.
493
:But they're not communicating
that they're doing the work.
494
:So they actually are going in and
they're going, Oh, you know what?
495
:That's a drop.
496
:That's interesting.
497
:It's probably just trend or whatever.
498
:I'll come back and I'll
look at it in three days.
499
:But then the client sees it the next day.
500
:They're like, Oh, dear
God, what's happening?
501
:And now next words that you say
are the most frustrating words.
502
:I know saw it yesterday.
503
:It's not a big deal.
504
:either if you know, and you
saw it yesterday, you tell
505
:me like, I'm now I'm mad.
506
:Or I think you're lying and you're trying
Pacify me because anybody who sees that
507
:downtrend is they're irate at that point.
508
:for agencies, number one, get
out ahead of it and be the one
509
:that brings up the problems.
510
:So many, especially younger agency
owners, they think that if they can hide
511
:from the problems, that's not your job.
512
:Your job is to bring the problem and
then sit and watch it with the client.
513
:And you're like, Hey, we're going to
have to take care of this together.
514
:And that's all the client wants from you.
515
:They're not going to
blame you for the problem.
516
:If you can make a reasonable case you
know, as long as you didn't cause it.
517
:So that's number one.
518
:Number two is anytime a client
comes to you and says, Oh, you
519
:know, things are down, everything's
horrible, the world's on fire.
520
:My initial reaction used to be like.
521
:Calm down, which is the wrong word.
522
:the real key I think to life
is complete and total empathy.
523
:this looks really bad.
524
:I agree.
525
:Look at what they're looking at and
respond to what they're looking at.
526
:The way that you would respond
to it as though it was yours.
527
:So they'd be like, my sales are in half.
528
:And you look at that and you're
like, Oh yeah, I see that.
529
:You're absolutely right.
530
:and man, if my sales got cut
in half, I'd be freaking out.
531
:Let's dig in this together.
532
:And then.
533
:Hey, you know what?
534
:I think we should actually stay calm.
535
:We don't want to make
any big rash changes.
536
:Let's go figure out why this is, but
trying to jump to logic right out of
537
:the gate, I think is a flawed model.
538
:I think it's empathy first.
539
:I agree.
540
:If I were you, and then you
get to, now it's not you and I
541
:across the table from each other.
542
:I cross over to your side.
543
:We lock arms together.
544
:We're buddies and we're like
going to go tackle this.
545
:And I realized that feels a little
touchy feely but I just think it's
546
:so, so important to stop and to, put
yourself in the other person's shoes
547
:and realize, man, this for me is a job.
548
:I'm managing one account.
549
:I've got 30 accounts on my
slate and I've got another call
550
:in 29 minutes for this person.
551
:This is their livelihood.
552
:Let me just stop for a minute
and say like, you know what?
553
:This would freak me out too.
554
:and I'm going to get to the
bottom of it and then do that.
555
:You know, that's the other thing
is actually do the damn job.
556
:That was such a departure, dude.
557
:I'm so sorry.
558
:I didn't mean to get on like a
weird soapbox soliloquy, forgive me.
559
:No, David, don't worry at all.
560
:I think I go off on tangents all the time.
561
:So I'm the worst person for that.
562
:I had an idea when you were talking
about all the things that could
563
:go wrong to kill your conversions.
564
:One of them that's come up for us
often is people starting to bid on
565
:your brand traffic or, not just your,
brand name, but the names of your
566
:products and you don't realize it.
567
:And so you're doing all this amazing
awareness building and then I sneak
568
:it, which is something I do by the way.
569
:Like I'm not telling you it's a bad thing.
570
:I actually think it's a great strategy.
571
:Who doesn't?
572
:Yeah, who doesn't?
573
:That's exactly right.
574
:If you're not doing it, you're flawed.
575
:Yeah.
576
:But somebody's sneaking in and
scooping out your bottom of the
577
:funnel traffic and you don't even
realize that they're doing it.
578
:So that's the sort of thing you'd pick up.
579
:Again, doing a visibility check, looking
at Google, your front page of Google
580
:and making sure you do that as well.
581
:Not in like your browser just
so you're not getting served
582
:the personalized results.
583
:Well, if you want to be real sneaky, if
you're bidding on somebody else's brand,
584
:go figure out where their corporate
office is and exclude their corporate,
585
:exclude that geography from your campaign.
586
:And that way, if they're being lazy about
the way they check, they'll never know.
587
:that's mean.
588
:Yeah, straight up evil.
589
:I don't know who would do such a thing.
590
:That's fantastic.
591
:that's one of those
things you would identify.
592
:Well, I'd like to think you'd identify
and just being familiar with your AdWords
593
:account would pick that up, right?
594
:For most people.
595
:But yeah, Google is going to
show you auction insights.
596
:It'll show you who's bidding on it.
597
:But if you're not bidding on
name, you don't get that data.
598
:have another, this is not as relevant,
but you mentioned if somebody
599
:comes in and, price matches your
product or they have a better image.
600
:This came from a friend of
mine who sold memory cards.
601
:He sold more money in memory cards.
602
:For two or three years than
anybody else in the world.
603
:He was like the primary, the
number one memory card guy.
604
:He was the biggest buyer from
like the whatever plant in
605
:China makes the memory cards.
606
:The thing about memory cards is a
memory card is a memory card, right?
607
:Like the value proposition
is very, very, very slim.
608
:You're going to have a hard time
convincing me like my plastic
609
:is actually more durable.
610
:And so the thing that he did that
I thought was absolutely brilliant
611
:is he would put random ad hoc stuff
on the memory cards, like recipes.
612
:now it's like, okay, I need a 32
gig memory card and I have two and
613
:they're the exact same price, but this
one has, you know, like every Martha
614
:Stewart recipe ever made or whatever.
615
:And and so.
616
:As weird a departure as that is, one thing
that I think e comm store owners should
617
:do is supplement with digital products.
618
:if you're selling a barbecue grill,
and I'm comparing your grill to
619
:15 other grills, and they're all
basically the same price, but you've
620
:got a four hour master class from
the guy that just won, barbecue off.
621
:2023, which would cost you nothing, right?
622
:Like it would cost you to be like, you
call up that guy who's a local celebrity,
623
:but it's not like he's a billion dollars.
624
:And you're like, Hey, man, if I pay
you a grand, can you just record a
625
:video using whatever product this is?
626
:And or I'll send you a free
barbecue grill or whatever.
627
:And now when I'm
comparing barbecue grills.
628
:It's like, Oh dude, I get that.
629
:And I get the masterclass.
630
:I think you did that
for mechanical pencils.
631
:I think you do that for
cell phone, just give them a
632
:tutorial, a how to or whatever.
633
:And now that bundle becomes a
category of one and you're no
634
:longer competing only on price.
635
:it's enhancing your offering, really,
really enhancing your offering in
636
:a way that would be difficult for
a lot of people to match as well.
637
:Well, and dude, the cost of delivery
is absolute zero and it's a little
638
:bit of relationship building and you
just gotta edify and credentialize
639
:the person that you're using.
640
:'cause you know there's some
brand building there too.
641
:So many influencers would do that
for free just because now they're
642
:gonna get the brand awareness.
643
:what aren't we talking
about on this topic?
644
:What haven't we hit that we need to hit?
645
:Did I skip any of your
notes or categories?
646
:I think we've covered pretty much well.
647
:Everything that I hadn't
noted down really.
648
:We've covered like the seasonality
thing, what to do, what not to do.
649
:I think we pretty much
well gone through it.
650
:If somebody is starting.
651
:Fresh, given your pedigree
in the e comm world.
652
:And even this topic aside,
just, you're going to talk to
653
:some young bucks out there.
654
:And if you wanted to encourage
them along their journey, what
655
:would you say to them right now?
656
:Like, what are the things that either
you wish somebody had told you or you
657
:see young founders needing to hear?
658
:I think don't don't overthink things.
659
:Don't put things off don't
try and overly plan things.
660
:Get on with things because sometimes if
you spend too much time deliberating on
661
:something and the best way to attack it,
it's better to just try it and test it
662
:and see if it works and if it doesn't.
663
:Go at it again.
664
:I see a lot of people and go to this
myself again of deliberating on something
665
:for weeks and never actually finishing
it where I could have just got on
666
:and just gone this will do for now.
667
:Let's see how that flies.
668
:And I'm, that might fly contrary
to a lot of other people's beliefs.
669
:But getting something 80 percent
of the way there and testing it
670
:is a lot better than getting it a
hundred percent of the way there.
671
:And.
672
:Never doing it because you didn't get it.
673
:The hundred percent that last
final 20 percent can often be
674
:a very big stretch to achieve.
675
:Yeah, I think that's
such phenomenal advice.
676
:I'm actually ashamed
of what I'm destroying.
677
:I'm about to share.
678
:I was with the business mentor
he and I were at a little
679
:mini conference type thing.
680
:It was like 50 people in a room basically.
681
:And you see presenters going
up and a gentleman that came up
682
:and, was very successful in a
space that was in at the time.
683
:And later I told my mentor, I was
like, dude, that pizza guy, I'm
684
:so much smarter than that guy.
685
:what obnoxious words to say, right?
686
:Like what a douchebag I am.
687
:But I was like, I'm so
much smarter than that guy.
688
:And my mentor looks at me and
he goes, yeah, but he does it.
689
:there was so much truth because I
would sit there and I would tinker and
690
:I would hone and I'd craft and when I
would think in it, but I'd never launch,
691
:I'd never publish, I'd never push.
692
:I'd never try.
693
:, it needed to be 100%.
694
:And the guy in question
who I actually still know.
695
:Man, he just throws massive
amounts of spaghetti at the wall.
696
:And he does these launches
and these challenges and these
697
:webinars that are always half
assed, half baked, half cooked.
698
:They piss me off.
699
:Like, typos and Zoom
links that don't work.
700
:and I'm not telling you to go this
far, but it is an amazing case study.
701
:There's definitely a balance.
702
:Yes.
703
:Yes.
704
:You need to be past the 50 percent mark.
705
:You need to be able to get on the Zoom,
but this dude just, he doesn't care.
706
:And then he figures out what works.
707
:And then once it works, he actually has
people around him along the periphery,
708
:and I need to stop describing him
because people are going to figure
709
:out who he is, who will then come in
and like hone it and make it good.
710
:And then they mint money.
711
:man, just get started.
712
:There's no reason not to this James.
713
:This is so good.
714
:Last words to you.
715
:Any, anything else that we need to say?
716
:Thanks for having me on here.
717
:It's been great to talk to the guy
that I usually watch TV on YouTube.
718
:Well, I appreciate you coming on.
719
:If you're watching this and
you need help with the econ,
720
:reach out to our buddy, James.
721
:I'm not an affiliate.
722
:I just like him.
723
:I think he has a lot of good stuff to say.
724
:And sometimes it's nice
to just have that support.
725
:I've never not benefited
from coaching or consulting.
726
:As long as you're smart about the
coach that you hire, I think that can
727
:be a really, really powerful boon.
728
:Other than that, like, comment, subscribe.
729
:I shoot a video every day.
730
:I hope I'll see you tomorrow.
