After a lifelong struggle with his gender identity, Judy Glenney’s son tragically took his own life. Judy’s pain and her son’s journey are documented in her powerful book, “Mom, I’m a Girl.” Judy joins Pastor Matt Popovits to discuss what she’s learned about God’s faithfulness, even in such heartbreaking loss. Judy offers hope to other parents who may be walking a similar path, reminding them—and each of us—that no matter what takes place, God hears and answers our prayers.

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

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Engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Papa viz and on tonight's program is Judy Glen. She's the author of the book. Mom. I'm a girl, and is here to talk to us about her journey with her son, Judy, welcome to engaging truth.

Thank you so much, Matt. I, um, really am enjoying the, the show and I appreciate you having me. Uh,

Well, we are, we're very fortunate to, to talk with you and to, to have you share with us, uh, your story, which is really also your, your son's story and for those who aren't familiar with, uh, the book that you've written and the journey that you've been on, um, uh, share with us, uh, what's the story behind the book that you wrote?

So I didn't have a lot the background. I didn't have knowledge of this whole, uh, issue. So when he started the conversation with mom, I think I should have been a girl. I just took it as a natural preadolescent questioning of sexuality. Where, who am I, where am I going? What is all about being a boy? What is all about being a girl and so forth? So I didn't think it, uh, all that unusual to, to engage in this conversation. So I told him about, uh, a little bit about my story. I have a weightlifting background, which is obviously very unique to, to women and I told them, well, it's okay to kind of question where you are as far as a sexuality, uh, is concerned. Uh, so we had a, a short conversation and it seemed to be okay with him. It kind of settled them down and he didn't ask too many more questions.

That was about the age of 12, 13, later on, closer to high school, he started really questioning. He started changing and he came right out and said, mom, I'm tired of living the lie. I know I'm a girl. That's when I really started to question, what was this all about? I didn't, as I mentioned, I didn't know anything about this. I didn't know if it was a physical type of thing. So something in the brain that truly is a disconnect between the brain and the body. I didn't know if it was emotional. I didn't know if it was psychological. Just where was this coming from? So we that's what really, the book is all about. It is how we navigated through that. Those last years of him transitioning, making his statement as a girl, going from a, from a male to a female, I, uh, knew that God had created him a boy.

There was no question. My husband and I reaffirmed this over and over to him that God had a plan for him as a man, not as a woman, but he insisted that, that he was at about age, oh, I would say late 16th, late 17th, uh, or into his 17th year, he started taking hormones. And, um, that's when the change really started to happen, he started to make emotional changes. He started to make some physical changes. And then, um, just, uh, several months shy of his 20th birthday, he took his life because he had told this that if he could not live as a woman, he would not live at all. Wow. So that's the story. And, uh, part of the story is the lessons. God taught me through this whole journey.

Judy that's thank you for sharing that. What are some of those lessons that you learned?

The first thing is always trust God, God has a plan for all of us. I had lots of doubts. I had lots of questions. There were times when I will admit that I didn't think it, that God heard my prayers. We prayed constantly for him, for God, to, to intervene, to IED for us, to change him into truly the, the man that God had planned him to be. So I would pray and, and nothing seemed to, it seemed like God was silent, but that was one of the first lessons that he said was, trust me, I hear your prayers. I see your cheers. The answer may not be what we it to be. Sometimes God says, yes, I hear you and answer your prayers. And we will go the route. That seems to be what you want it to be. Other times he says, wait and waiting can be very, very long in that process.

And we constantly doubt and thank God's not hearing our prayers, but he's saying I am working, be patient with me. I am working. And sometimes he says, no, the plan that you have is not my plan, but I had to trust him fully that every promise that he said in his word was abs absolute truth. And I had learned these truths. I grew up in the church. I knew all the little promises, all the little diddies that were said, oh, Romans 8, 28. All things work together for good. That love God and so forth. But when it came right down to it, did I really believe that I take those promises for myself and say, God, I know who you are. I am a child of yours. I can really trust you to be who you said you were. You told me you would never leave me or forsake me.

I, I now believe that I now believe that there is no temptation taken me as such as common demand, but you're gonna make a way that I can get through this. You're gonna make a way for my son to get through this, but I have to trust you. I will not see the next step perhaps where you're leading in this journey. But I know for a fact that you are there, that you have my hand, that you have a plan for both of us. You have a plan for my life and you have a plan for my son's life. And it may not be exactly like I have laid it out. And you've, and God said in his word, yeah, my plans are oftentimes higher than your plans and your ways are not my ways. So I had to really take a hold of those of those promises.

And at one time I remember I, I sat down with God's word and it just hit me that I need to, to take those words in. Like I was eating, I put those, those, the promises in my mouth and I chewed and I believed, and I swallowed them. And when I swallowed them, they were a part of me. I knew that God was truly who he said, he was the omnipotent God, the Omni mission. God, he knew the problems I was going through. He knew the, that my son was going through it. Didn't take him by surprise. He knew all of this, but I had to trust him for every step that we were going through, even though he was not making the way clear for

Us. And so you really believe and, and are still comforted to this day. It sounds like by the, by the promise that even though you're your son and you and your husband went through a really difficult journey, ultimately one, which your son tragically took his own life. You really still are comforted by the promise that that God is good and God is in control. And, and God is, is working all things toward, toward an ending that will be for, for his glory. And, and, and the good of all of us is that, is that safe to say,

Oh, absolutely. And it, it is, I, I say funny, but oftentimes God works this way. That, like I said, in the beginning that I didn't wanna write this book that God said, write it. And part of the reason that he had me write this was for me, he said, write those things down and time and time again, he has brought my own words back to me that I have written. And he would say, remember, the things that you wrote, remember those lessons that I taught to they're still here. They haven't changed. They're still working today. And my, my ultimate comfort is I know that my son made the decision for Jesus Christ. He accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. He knew that Jesus Christ died for his sins on the cross, in that Jesus rose on the third day to give him everlasting life. And he reiterated that to me.

I kind of doubted that fact because, um, he had made that decision when he was very young and as time passed, I began to really doubt he had that relationship with the Lord and I asked him, and I was kind of afraid that he would say, no, I never made that decision, but he didn't. He said, mom, you think, I don't remember when I made that decision, but I do. And there's no question he is my savior. And for that very fact, I know that he is alive in heaven with his savior Jesus Christ, and he is worshiping him now. And I will see him again. And that's the greatest comfort that I have.

The great promise of the gospel is that God's grip on us through the promises of Jesus. Christ is stronger than our hold on him. That the, the promises he gives to us in belief and baptism are true for us, even as we struggle with our identity, even as we, uh, we, we tragically may even take our own lives. The truth of God's promises and the grip of his grace will not be undone by our own. Wrestlings our own sins and our own struggles. And that certainly is true for your son as well.

Oh, absolutely. And that's the, the thing that, that we have to remember too, is that, that after, um, we go through these journeys and, and after these, these really difficult circumstances, we look back and say, what could I have done? What could I have said, where did we go wrong? And all of these things, and God said to me, and that was another lesson that I had to learn. He says, you can't go, go back and change what has happened. Yes, you might have done some things, uh, that I, I didn't, uh, mistakes that I ma may have made, but I looked back and I confessed those that I thought that I had done wrong. And God said, if you have confessed, those, they are for forgiven. They are forgotten. Remove on from here. I have a plan for you, even though your plan didn't work out like a, like you wanted to, my plan still goes on. My plan still is in, in effect and you are here alive. And that means we're going on together. Just keep holding my hand. And I will guide you through the rest of your days. His days may have come to an end, but you're still here. I still have a purpose for your life. Let's go on together.

You, we live in a day and age where, where, um, those who identify as transgender are encouraged to, to accept that identity. And, and those around them are encouraged to, to embrace fully that transition from say, male to female or, or female to male, and support them in that. And to encourage that, uh, but in your story and your husband very clearly attempted to help your son understand that he was, he was created good as a man. And that part of his path in life was to come to terms with that and embrace that and, and try to make peace with that. Uh, what, what are your concerns about a culture that is encouraging young people who identify as transgender to, to embrace that fully?

Oh my goodness. This is, this is only doing them a disservice. There have been so many examples of people whose thought this was going to be their answer and it's not. So what I would say is, especially to, to Christians, is that we know that, that God created them in the gender that they were born in. So we try to encourage them to, to get right, first of all, with God and allow God to work in their, in their, uh, bodies to reconcile the, the doubts that they have to the unbelieving world. It is still something that we need to, to tell them, this is not, this is not going to bring you the happiness that you think it will. You may change the outside, but you are still the same on the inside. And what you're doing is just tearing your physical body apart and is only going to bring you unhappiness,

And we can address those other things. But if we don't address the core thing, which is being made whole by a God who made us and love us, loves us, uh, then, then we're, we're, we're only really dancing around the true issue, right?

Oh, absolutely. It's like trying to fit, uh, a square P and a round hole. You're, you're going all around this whole thing. And it truly is Matt. I do believe that this whole thing is a spiritual issue that the enemy has, has overcome our, our culture, as you say, and especially our Christian kids are even doubting who they are and what they are in, in their identity in Jesus Christ. So yes, the, the peace, like everything else it's fleeting. And if it's fleeting, it, there are some dire circumstances to these, uh, to the search that, that has been, uh, that they have taken on this journey and it is not going to end well.

And, and, and yet those who identify as transgender, they, they need an incredible amount of compassion. I mean, certainly if, if your own son's journey is any indication mm-hmm, in, in, in reading the book, he, he struggled so greatly, uh, to the point of even taking his own life. And, and that's a part of the, the journey of, of, of, for those who identify as transgender, that perhaps many don't realize is the, is the depth of, of, of torment and struggle and confusion that they wrestle with. And, and, and young people, all people are struggling with this, like, like your son did, uh, they, they need a tremendous amount of, of empathy and compassion, right?

Oh my goodness. Yes, they are in a struggle. And that's what we really need to realize is that bashing them arguing, and, and these kind of confrontations are not really going to help them need the compassion. They need our unconditional love. And that's the fine line that we need to walk is that we love them with the love of God, because we know that God has a plan for them in, in their body, that God gave them. And we want them to have that joy, we, them to have that piece. But on the other hand, if we condone the actions that they are doing, it's only going to bring them the unhappiness that, uh, that will, that won't satisfy. So, um, if we have friends that are, that are in that particular situation, yes, we need to love them, but we need to love them to the point to where we need to confront them and say, you know, God loves you in the gender that he gave you at birth. Do you know that he has a plan and a purpose for you in that body? So, yes, we need the compassion. We need the, the love. Uh, but we can't allow them. We can't enable them to go on down the path because we know that it will only lead to destruction.

Judy, what would you say to parents of, of a young person who has come to them open questioning their, their gender and, um, and they're being encouraged by the world around them to, to embrace that wrestling and to perhaps even begin a transition. And there are parents who are caught flat footed and, um, shocked by these revelations. What, what would you say to just to encourage those parents of those children?

First of all, I would say, be informed, be informed about what this is all about. This is a spiritual issue. It is a, an emotional issue. This is not physiological. This is not caused by anything in the brain. And that's what a of the people will tell you is that this is out of their control. This is a spiritual matter. First of all, you need to pray for your children, pray that, that they will, first of all, if they haven't made that commitment or, or that decision to accept Jesus Christ, their or savior, you need to get that, uh, clear to them. And then also, uh, sometimes we can get, especially if you feel that this is something they should not be engaged in, we tend to be, um, bringing all kinds of information to them about it. Once you do know what it is, and then start to put that force to them.

My suggestion would be just to keep the communication going, keep asking questions gently. I, uh, we, you don't want to, um, push them. You, you don't want to engage them in an argument, potentially ask them questions. Why do they feel this way? What are their plans? Uh, where are they? They getting their information. Those types of, of things keeps it communication open. That is so vital. Um, look for signs that they may be getting into, um, the hormone, the hormones that, uh, are, uh, the first step toward transition and look for those wide emotion swings, those changes in behavior and in emotions. And then again, gently ask them, where is this coming from? The other thing that we need to really keep in mind is that even though we love them, even though we can, uh, all these things that I just mentioned, the kids are going to make their choices and I'm, and a lot of times their, their choices will be not the choices that we would have them make, but God has given them free will, and they will make choices just like we have a choice, but that first choice really needs to be hammered in.

Have you made that decision for Jesus Christ? If you know that they have, and that they are a child of God, then we can go from there and say, did you know that God really does have a plan for you in the gender that he gave you at at birth? That's a fantastic plan that you have. So be in prayer, constantly be in prayer and, um, let your kids know that you love them unconditionally, whether they transition, whether they make these choices that you don't agree with, you still love them. And that's really, really important. Unfortunately, they may come back and what is very common is that they will associate your condoning, their behavior with your love. And that's oftentimes where the line needs to be drawn. And you need to, to make sure that you're following God's, um, purpose for their life and not allowing them not enabling them. Like our culture would like us to do, but you're trying to reconcile them. God is a God of redemption, and he wants that child in a relationship with him above all else.

Judy, where can people, um, learn more about your story? Where can they access your book? Where can they, where can they purchase it?

They can go to my website and it's just Judy Glen, all one word, Judy, glen.com. And you'll see my book there. It's, uh, it's just $10 and I can personally sign that and maybe give you a word of encouragement. Um, but it's very easy. Judy, glen.com.

Judy, thank you so much for being with us on engaging to truth and for sharing your story. We hope to have you back.

Thank you so much for having been that I've enjoyed talking with you

And thank you for listening and being with us here on engaging truth. We hope you'll join us again next

Time. Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 68, Cypress, Texas 77, 410. Or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.