Discover how to drive action and generate revenue with your podcast in this episode of The PBP.fm Show. We dive into the 10th commandment of podcasting: Thou Shalt Drive To An Action.

Learn effective techniques for incorporating calls to action, converting listeners into clients, and leveraging interviews for direct sales and networking.

Don’t miss this episode if you want to maximize your podcast’s potential and achieve real business results. Listen now to transform your podcast strategy!

And that's the soft called action, the hard called action.

So the soft called action is your on platform action. That you want your listeners to take, right? And that's the Hey, if you liked this episode, click the like button and subscribe button, hit that notification bell, right? Whatever it is the on platform action.

And so you want to make sure you have that in every single piece of content that you put out is have that soft call to action that says, Hey, if you liked this, Hit the subscribe button, right? Because if they subscribe to it, they'll get more notifications. It'll show up in your feed more. And that's your goal, right?

You want to show up in their feed all the time. You want to create that omnipresence. And so the more people that will take that soft call to action, the better.

Welcome to pbp fm brought to you by Push Button Podcasts. You go to a resource for grabbing attention, building awareness, and creating authority in your marketplace. I'm Richard Matthews, your host and guide through the wonderful world of podcasting as a driver of business. Here, we teach how to use a multimedia podcast as the cornerstone of your omnipresent content marketing strategy.

Get ready for actionable tips and tangible takeaways on improving your digital presence across the board. With that, let's dive into this week's episode of pbp. fm.

Hello, and welcome back to the pbp. fm podcast. I'm Richard Matthews, CEO of Pushbutton Podcast, and I've got my recording buddy here, Kevin Rundle. Kevin, are you there?

Kevin Rundle: I am here, Richard.

Richard Matthews: Awesome. Glad to have you here.

I know last time we talked a little bit about project management, and managing your post production in your podcast. Today, we're going to move back into our Ten Commandments of Podcasting series that we've been working through and talk about Thou Shalt Drive To An Action. And it's one of the rules of your podcast.

Kevin Rundle: I mean, because I've been in marketing so long, the driving to an action feels like a natural way to talk about this. From a business perspective, I can't, right? If it costs you more to do it than not to do it, not doing it sounds like the right choice. So those are my initial thoughts, but,

Richard Matthews: So for me, the drive to an action is a really important aspect of what we're building, right? Cause if you're building a podcast the purpose of building a podcast is going to come down to and I know we've talked about this in previous episodes, the type of podcast you're building. Right?

And with those eyeballs, put advertising in front of them, or salegated content of some sort, right? And that's the model. And so that advertising pays the bills for all of the stuff. And then the podcast itself is a business. So you've got very different KPI's and very different calls to action that you'll be using on those kind of things.

Your calls to action are going to be like, Hey, we're, you know, we're sponsoring Surfshark today, right? And you know, go check out them, use our coupon code, right? Those kind of calls to action. What we're looking at in the strategic influence podcast, which was what we're teaching people how to build, is the strategic influence podcast is to help you build attention, awareness, authority in your marketplace to drive sales into your business, drive leads and sales for whatever it is that your products and services are in the marketplace.

And both inside the podcast and outside of the podcast, how you can leverage what we're doing to create to create revenue.

Kevin Rundle: Perfect.

Richard Matthews: Cool. So, if the purpose is to drive revenue, I'm gonna talk a little bit about what the different ways you can drive revenue with your podcast. So there's three different ways. First way we already talked about ads. Right? And so ads are going to be primarily for the the media style podcasts.

And ads if you're going to do ads, there's essentially there's two types of ads that you can run on your podcast. You can run the ads where you have a sponsor come in. And they pay for your audience. This doesn't really start to make sense until you have thousands upon thousands of subscribers, because ads are sold on what they call CPM or Cost Per Milla.

They're looking to get their name known in their either local community or in their specific niche. And so we're going to talk about a different type of ad, which is generally a self sponsored ad, right? And so the self sponsored ad is you know, just as an example, You have your podcast going halfway through the podcast.

You're a real estate agent and you're talking about, you know maybe you're talking with one of the local restaurant owners about you know their restaurant in the community and whatever's going on in there halfway through the show. You might have a short little 20 30 second thing like hey, this podcast is brought to you by our real estate company, right?

We have an intro we have an outro, and there may be an interstitial, that's what the middle commercial is called, where we'll mention like, hey, if you were interested in getting a podcast started check out our, you know, come and get a demo or something like that, or a strategy, a free podcast strategy session call with us over at push button podcast, right?

It's a real simple commercial that just lets people know when they're engaging with your educational content, that there is more that they can do that you actually have an offer in the marketplace. Does that make sense?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. Makes perfect sense.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. So that's the first one.

Kevin Rundle: So when you're talking to strategic. Oh, yeah, I'll let I'll let you do. Actually, I'm going to wait till the end because I, this is going to be a more overarching question.

And this is something that like we do regularly on our hero show podcast, right? That's the other podcast that I run. And we use if I don't know if you've ever heard of a Chet Holmes and his dream 100 book and talks about like, Hey, here, if you put down the a hundred clients you wanted to work with, and there's a whole thing on that.

But say you have your dream, 100 clients you can start inviting them onto your podcast and you can use the podcast as a way to build a relationship with them. And to find out how you can use your podcast as a direct acquisition of sales. And we'll talk a little bit about how you do that, but that's the second method is right.

You can invite people that you want to be your clients onto your podcasts. And there's some, specific things that you can do to make that not feel like you're being gross and salesy but how to make that actually be cool and mutually beneficial for the both of you. We'll talk about how to do that when we get to the house section of this episode

So we'll use the podcast as a way to start that relationship and to build a strategic partnership with them that actually turns into sales down the road. So those are the three different ways that you can drive revenue with your podcast, adds to your services that takes time.

And then the direct acquisition of clients and networking partners, both of those can happen very quickly. So that's the top level like thought process is there.

How many sales do I see? What's the ratios?

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Kevin Rundle: For the other two, what kind of KPI's are you looking for?

Richard Matthews: So with the networking and your direct acquisition of high value clients, I'm generally looking at like a 25%. Right? So if I invite four people on that I like, I think these people would be good clients. If I can turn 25% of those into a sales call, I'm happy about that. Right?

And what I have found is that I'm generally better than that, but that's my target is about 25% into sales calls. And then your sales close ratio goes from there. And the reason for that is a lot of times you don't actually know before you get on the phone with them if they have the problem that you solve and like where that, because you're guessing, right?

So that's my sort of gut benchmark is about 25% of the people when I'm specifically targeting. And that's for either one of those, either strategic partnerships or the direct sales as I'm looking to if I invite four people on, I'm going to get four great episodes for my podcast either way.

So it's one of those win things, I'm going to get good stuff, we're going to build that relationship up. And we've built the networking and then a lot of times, 100% of those relationships will turn into something like, hey, when in the future if they run into someone, they might just, you know, either refer them to our podcast or refer them to our services, those kinds of things.

So they turn into positive relationships regardless, but as far as like this turns into an actual like partnership, an official partnership or an official sale, my goal is 25% of the people I invite on turn into those and that's my gut benchmark for those.

But I want to make sure that everything is within an action bound big goal that I'm in control of because for a long time, I set these goals that were not really in my control. And as much as like the work is in your control, when you know if it's going to be 10 calls or a hundred calls to make five sales, right?

Richard Matthews: Yeah. That's a really good point. And so to that end, I do the same thing. So my recommendation is for all of our clients is that your show is going to be weekly, Right? So you're going to do at least four calls every month, right? Four recorded episodes per month. And you know, some months it's going to be five, Right?

Cause you know, I think March has like five weeks in it or something like that. A few of the months have five. So it's either four or five. And so, what we generally recommend is on the action side, cause that's where you can actually set your intention on like, Hey, this is what I want to make sure happens is either 25 or 50% of your episodes are interview episodes.

Kevin Rundle: I mean, we could change that in the future if that's what it looks like. Right?

Richard Matthews: Yeah. But right now we're doing all us, but our recommendation for our clients and people who are looking to drive revenue with their podcast is to have that every other episode just about is a guest interview. And so that means, you know, if you're doing two interviews a month with someone else.

That you're doing one of them is a potential direct high value client, and the other one is a strategic partner, right? That you could potentially meet with that doesn't have to be, you know, someone's it could be both clients and both strategic partners, but right, that gives you a goal, an action goal every month that you're just like, Hey, if I'm doing by meeting with one strategic partner every month, at the end of the year, if you've met with 12 potential strategic partners, and three or four of them actually turned into like a good call and a referral, like, you know, that can be big, right?

And so, it's the kind of thing that can be right. And that was over a quarter million dollars in revenue. So it's the kind of thing that depending on your business and depending on what your price points are for your services and those kind of things, one good strategic partner is worth its weight in gold.

And so if you're meeting with one strategic partner or potential strategic partner every month on your podcast, just like clockwork, that can be a huge revenue driver in your business. And the same kind of thing with your high value clients, your high value clients are the ones that either they've got a high dollar amount that they'll drive a lot of revenue or they'll just be great clients because they'll turn into good referral sources or there's lots of different ways you can look at what's a high value client look like in your business.

But again,

Kevin Rundle: So the high value client was, but potential strategic partner almost every time anyways.

And so I know we've talked about this before and we'll talk about it. We're going to do a whole episode on this, but we talked about, you know, you have an offer in the marketplace. And if you're going to get your offer in the marketplace there's four different ways you can put your offer in front of the marketplace. Buy, borrow, build blitz, Right?

You can buy audience, you can borrow audience, you can build your own audience or you can blitz, that's like cold outreach audience. And so your podcast is all about building your own audience, which takes time. And what we're talking about here is that while you're putting in the time and effort to build your own audience, to put your offers in front of people you can also be using that time strategically to help borrow other audiences.

And we're using the podcast to hit two different categories here and drive leads multiple ways. Hopefully that makes sense.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. So you have a podcast like this one, right? Where we're actually, you know, we're creating and educating on a regular basis. so I want to talk about, two, we're going to talk about two different calls to action, right? So we're going to talk about how you do the calls to action with your networking. Right?

So if you're gonna do high value clients for high value future partners, we'll talk about that first. And then the 2nd one, we're gonna talk about the actual driving of leads, which is your call to action in your actual podcast.

So on the 1st slide, which is your question. How do you actually turn your podcast into a lead source with the networking that you do? So the first part of course, you have to have who you want to talk to, right? That's where you're going to put together your list of potential clients or put together your list of potential partnerships. And so let's assume you have those things, you invite someone into your podcast.

So what you're looking to do is ultimately you want to create value for your audience and you want to create value for the person that you're bringing on, right? And so, as long as you're always approaching it from that value perspective, it's like, hey, we have a podcast called The Hero Show, and we'd like to invite you on to The Hero Show, so that we can tell your story.

Here's what the purpose of the hero show is, right? The purpose of the hero show is that we tell the stories of entrepreneurs as if they're comic book superheroes. And the reason we do that is because we think the narrative around entrepreneurs constantly being vilified in media and online is not a complete narrative, right?

It doesn't actually help entrepreneurs, and entrepreneurs, you know, help change the world. And so we're working to change that narrative, and we'd like you to become, be a part of that.

And so, you get to help contribute to the value of that for being one of our guests and when you are one of our guests, we'll talk about your business and we'll talk about who you are and what you do in the marketplace, right? And so we have a value proposition for the podcast.

And we're might be interested in having them so we can take over their post production, right? That might want, they might be a dream client. So our offer to them might be like, Hey, come on the push button podcast show. And we want to talk about with you, how podcasting has grown your business. Right? So we can talk about that.

And then, you know, so we're talking about the intersection of their business and ours, right? And that's generally what you're doing is you're going to be talking about some intersection between how does what you do in the marketplace and what we do in the marketplace, you know, what do they call those Venn diagram?

What's the Venn diagram of our life and our business?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. How do they overlap?

Richard Matthews: How do they overlap? Yeah, what's the synergistic stuff? And so, when you approach it that way, it was like, hey, we want to talk about the synergy between what you do and what we do in the marketplace that'll create a good, valuable conversation for our audience, and we will be putting you in front of our audience, right?

So that's the first thing, as long as what you're approaching and what you're asking for is we're going to create a valuable piece of content to put into the marketplace. That's your first win, right? That's the first thing that you're looking for.

And so when you're inviting people have that mindset in place, right? Again, that's completely antithesis to I want you to come on my podcast so I can pitch you right? That's not what we're looking to do.

And so the second step when you get the yes, I'd like to come on to your podcast is I always book 15 minutes before and 15 minutes after the podcast interview. So I book 90 minute slots generally speaking because I generally do about an hour podcast. If you do half an hour podcast, you might book, you know, 50 or 60 minutes for the your time slot.

What your goal is, you want to have some time to talk to them before the interview and some time to talk to them after the interview, right?

And so what we're, what we're doing is I've had, have you on the podcast, have you on my show, it's like, Hey, Kevin, it's great to have you here. Here's I want to do just, before we get into the interview, let's take a few minutes and talk about what we're going to do on the show and just get to know each other so we have good context for the conversation.

So can we start off? Let me ask you a few questions about your business. Just so I understand you and I can make this really valuable for you. And so I might ask things like, what do you do in the marketplace? What's your offer? How can we make sure that we are framing the offer well for our audience? Right? What are some of the things that you're looking to accomplish in your business this year, those kinds of things that just gives me a good idea of who they are, what they're looking for?

And we can just sort of make sure that as we're going through the interview, that I'm bringing up their offer and talking about their stuff. So we're actually making it valuable to them and still making it valuable to the audience. Right?

And so we're building that reciprocity and we're making sure we understand who they are and what their offer is.

Does that all make sense?

Richard Matthews: Then the second part of that, and this is where the magic is. And I have a friend of mine helped me develop this and we call it the magic question and the magic question is basically getting permission to soft pitch them. And so it'd be like, awesome. I have a really good understanding of who you are and what you're doing in the marketplace, Kevin.

Would you mind if I told you a little bit about what we do with our company? So you understand the context that I'm coming to the conversation from. 100% of the time, the other person will say, yes.

Yes, please tell me what it is that you do, because what you're doing, essentially, is you're giving them the same benefit that you just got. Right?

I understand who you are and what you're doing in the marketplace. So now we can have a smarter conversation right on our podcast. And so what I do then is I have a short version of my pitch that is not actually it has no clothes in it. No, like, you know, hard clothes or soft clothes or any of the sales

Kevin Rundle: Yeah, it's, it's the before the doors open part of the elevator pitch.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, that's where the doors open. It's like, here's what we do in the marketplace. And so for a push button podcast, when I have someone on the hero show, I'll be like, okay, awesome. Kevin, here's what we do, right? I'm the CEO of push button podcasts and this is the offer we have in the marketplace.

And so, you're taking this podcast that's value to them, so you're creating the reciprocity, you're giving them your offer, and then you're going to get on a podcast interview, and you're to, talk for the next 20 minutes, 35 minutes, 45 minutes, or sometimes like we have like hour and a half long podcast occasionally where we really get to dive into and know their story and get to know them and talk back and forth and get to see who they are and they get to see who I am. And we get to exchange stories with one another.

And so that's that first part is you can get that soft pitch in at the beginning. And so that's part of the whole process. And so that's before the interview. And so, if that makes sense, we can stop there for a second because I'm going to talk about how you handle the interview in just a minute because that's important.

But do you have any questions on how you handle the pre interview?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah, makes good sense. And I've watched the interviews. So knowing that's the way you lead into it, I mean, I haven't watched all of them, but I've watched about 50,

Richard Matthews: Yeah,

Richard Matthews: We've got like 250 episodes now. I don't think they're all published yet, but we have.

Kevin Rundle: I know you got a lot of it, I was going to watch them all. And then I started just picking the ones I was interested in.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, when they got something that's that big. it's

Kevin Rundle: Because I'm a human. And there's a lot, there's a lot of content there, right? Literally, if you didn't sleep, you'd have ten days worth minimum.

Richard Matthews: At least. So that's the first part is you want to frame the first part of the interview before the interview as a way to be able to both find out who they are, find out what the value is, give them a soft pitch. And then you move into the actual interview portion. And so if that makes sense, I'll talk about how we handle the interviews.

Kevin Rundle: Yeah, let's do it.

Richard Matthews: The interview portion is it's hard to describe how to do this because we're going to do a whole podcast on how to give good interviews. So I'm going to give you just like the highlights here. But learning to give a good interview is about being ignorant and curious.

And then the second part is, the mutual exchange of stories. And this is a really interesting thing to understand. So human beings judge the depth of our relationships based on how much of the other person's story that we know.

And so here's the proof of that, if you know someone's name, but you don't know any of their story, we call that person an acquaintance. If you don't know their name or any of their story, we call them a stranger. Right?

If you know their name and you know some of their stories, you might call them a friend. And if you know their name and you know so much of their stories, that every time you hear them tell a story, you can tell the differences between this time they told the story and last time they told the story, you might call that person a best friend. Right?

And so that's how we judge the depth of our relationships is on how much the other person's story we know. Does that make sense?

Kevin Rundle: A super interesting perspective, I never thought of it that way. You just gave me two nuggets, be ignorant and curious. I think it's funny that you use those words because I'm thinking about some cold marketing I've been, I don't know if it's marketing, but some cold outreach I've been doing recently because it's not really with the cold action and those are the two frames for the outreach is like, Hey, I'm new and I don't know very much about this.

Could you answer a question within your industry that I can't seem to figure out on my own?

Richard Matthews: the ignorant and curious.

Kevin Rundle: And then the second one, the idea that relationship or the way we think of other people is based on how many of their stories, you know, I think that's a brilliant perspective. I've never heard anybody say it that way.

There's probably some source that you came to for that, or maybe that's

Richard Matthews: That is.

Kevin Rundle: A Richard original, but

Richard Matthews: That one as far as I know is a richer original I've been talking about that for years. It's my if you go on my linkedin profile my about section I've got a whole story about that. But the reason why

Kevin Rundle: Well, don't worry. I've stolen

Richard Matthews: You can use it. Anyone can use it. I think it's a really good way to think about how, like anything in business or in life or in your relationships at home or with your family and kids, it's all about the other person's story that you know.

And so you're leading with value, which is great. And then in the podcast, we're going to share stories with one another. And so when I ask someone a question, on the podcast interview, whatever those questions are, right? Whatever your outline is, this is why it's difficult to like teach people how to do this, because you have to have like your own process and whatever you want to talk about on your show, right?

The Hero Show, we go through a very specific set of questions and we tell people to tell their stories. On this podcast, we're doing a lot more education, but we're still sharing stories and examples back and forth as we go. It's like, hey, here's what I'm working on, here's what we're working on.

You're hearing us share these stories back and forth, and occasionally we pull in our family and stuff like that, but the idea is, anytime that you ask your guest to share a story or they do share a story in response to question that you've asked, your goal then is not to just listen to that story and be great, that was a good story. Your goal is the mutual exchange of stories.

And so we talked a little bit about that. And then, my response then is I'm looking for, in my life, where do I have stories that are similar? And so I was like, hey, I actually had that happen to me as well, like, I had my two year old, you know, run butt ass naked through the back end of my thing. And now, we've mutually shared a story back and forth.

And that's what you're looking for, you're looking for as many opportunities

Kevin Rundle: It's a shared experience. We're both bluffed.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. You're looking for as many opportunities you can through that podcast interview for them to share a story and then you to look through your bank of stories that you have and share one back with them, right?

And so this is where it's really important. So will probably feel weird sharing the same story with multiple guests over and over again because you're thinking to yourself, my audience has heard this story already.

So when people have you know internet fame, it's because your audience knows so much of your story and you don't know any of theirs Right? And so it's okay to share the same stories over and over again.

And I also look at that as practice, right? We talked about this, I believe when we talked about listening to comedians and practicing your stories. And so practicing your stories, you can practice your stories over and over again with your different guests. And so you end up having a bank of really good stories that you have refined over the course of time, which makes you a better communicator.

So it's okay to share the same story with multiple guests. And so what you're looking at is how can I share hear their stories and share my stories in exchange with them. And there's, always benefits to that. So does that make sense?

But one of the problems I have with his retellings is sometimes he'll frame them different or he'll do lead up or the details of the story will change significantly enough that it's jarring because I already know the story. So be careful to make sure the stories you tell you try to keep consistent.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, that's a, it's a good point.

Kevin Rundle: And I'm not going to say any names cause it doesn't matter, but like lots and lots of creators have heard their stories several times, especially interview style creators. But I do find, like, when this time it was this kind of struggle and last time it wasn't, that is or it was different enough that it feels like you're telling the same story, but you've edited it for some reason that doesn't feel authentic anymore.

Like, people are, as much as you don't want to hear the same story, people do actually remember the stories you tell them often.

Kevin Rundle: Right. A hundred

Richard Matthews: how do we, How do we connect with the story that you just told? Right? And so, if it might be the story that you just told was about this thing that was, you know, it was embarrassing to me, right?

So I have a story, right? Another story that's similar. I might emphasize the embarrassment of the story where when I share it again another time with someone else, it might be you know, a different part of the thing that I might emphasize a different part of the story.

And so, you you'll end up with whatever the story might be a little slightly different. But the idea what I want people to take away from this is what your goal is your goal is to have as many opportunities during the course of your interview to have that mutual exchange of stories.

Because if someone knows, now at the end of the interview, when you get to the end of the interview, someone knows, who you are, they know what your offer in the marketplace is. You have given them a really good interview. That's going to be valuable to them in their business. And it's going to be valuable to your audience. You've created value together, right?

They had a good time, they've got the good feelings together. We're like, I enjoyed spending 45 minutes with Richard, right? I enjoyed spending 45 minutes with Kevin. I know a bit about who he is, what he does, how he approaches the marketplace and those kinds of things. And so, what's interesting is like, I'm always looking for both life stories and then also business stories to share with my guests.

And the business stories are strategic in a sense that I'm like, when I'm sharing a story about like either a staff member or another client or a customer service issue. I'm looking at how do I not just get the story across to our audience or to the person we're talking about, but also they're getting to see a little bit about how I think about business and how I think about my clients and how I think about my staff and how I think about running our company because you're getting the opportunity to share your values as opposed to just your offer. Right?

And we might do business together.

Are you ready to amplify your influence and stand out from the noise? Join Richard Matthews on pbp. fm as he explores the power of podcasting, social media, and strategic content to boost your reach. You'll discover the latest trends in video, audio, and influencer marketing. Plus, unlock insider tips to create binge worthy content spotlighting you as a leader.

With upbeat energy and clear, empowering advice, Richard guides publishers, experts, and entrepreneurs on starting a podcast, improving social strategy, and connecting with your perfect audience. Visit pbp. fm and book a podcast strategy session to start spreading your message today

Richard Matthews: So that's the interview section. And then you have the post interview section. And so the post interview is where you can turn it into actual business. And again, this is going to be the same kind of things, whether or not it's a direct client or a strategic partner.

But what you're looking at the end of the interview is you hit the stop record button and you got a few minutes to debrief. Right? So if you're using recording software, like screen squad cast, right, which we're on right now, there's that a couple of minutes of time where it's like, Hey, you have to leave the browser window open anyways to make sure our files upload, right?

And so I'll generally do things like that, we'll take the couple of minutes after the interview, and I'm like, Hey, can you just keep the browser window open while our files upload? And I have a couple of things I just want to go over with you.

First off, you know, thank you for coming on the podcast today. I just want to know what our post production schedule looks like, we're two or three weeks ahead on post production. This is when the interview is going to come out. Here's what our team creates for them. Which of these assets might you like us to send you so that you can use them and promote your own business however you like those kind of things. So it's just, a sort of a value things like, hey, let me, show you what it's gonna look like.

And so again, it starts with the value first proposition is like, Hey, over the course of the interview, I heard that you do X, Y, Z, right? Or I understand that you do these things. I understand that you have a, I'll just use one of the examples.

One of our strategic partners now they do four times a year, they do stage events with a bunch of attorneys, and they teach marketing to attorneys. And so my question to him, when we got off of the interview, was, I understand that you have stages where you teach to attorneys. Do you think your attorneys have any interest in learning about how a podcast can drive revenue for their business?

And if someone has an audience, one of the things they're always looking for is how do I provide more value? Right? How do I provide more value to my audience to make their lives better? And so, that's what you're looking for is you're looking for where are the things that I have that I can give value to their audience? And just be useful to them.

And so how that particular relationship ended up going is he was like, yeah, that's really interesting. I actually have a smaller subset, right? I have a smaller mastermind group. And before I invite you onto the stage, the big stage, I'd like you to come and teach a small class to this group of, like, 10 attorneys that are like our high end ones to see what they think, right?

I want to see how you teach and I want to see, like, what the things are. And so we booked that, we actually booked the first training call and I delivered a teaching to them and he was like, they all loved it. I'd love to invite you on the stage. I've spoken on the stage like six or seven times now. Right?

The more this is going to work for you. Is that makes sense?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. It makes perfect sense. Yeah.

Richard Matthews: So when you're talking to direct acquisition of clients there's just a small change, right? And the small change is instead of value to their audience, it's value to them. And so when the value to them, what you have generally done through the course, that interview is you're looking for, where are you hearing their problems?

Where are you hearing the things that they might be struggling with in their business? And where are the points that you have value that you can offer to them in exchange? So for push button podcast and for the hero show, I have a whole selection of resources. So I've got like a I know for podcasts and for businesses, there's a lot of parts that go into having an offer in the marketplace, right?

And so what I'm looking for is I'm looking for when I'm talking to someone where do they have holes in their business that would make it so that they're not quite ready to start a podcast. And so I have resources for all of those things. I've got training courses, I've got mind maps, I've got just everything that I've worked on over the course of my life.

I've turned into little assets and I've turned all of them into canned responses that have like links to pdf's links to mind maps links to training videos links to all sorts of things and what I'm looking for at the end of the show, it's like hey, I noticed you were telling the story about xyz, do you potentially have an interest in learning how to do? Like I'll just give you an example how to build a webinar? Right? Because a webinar can really help you close sales. I have a whole webinar training that I can send you on that just help you get these things done.

And I just send it to them afterwards after the podcast

Kevin Rundle: Yeah.

Richard Matthews: And so I have lots of different things like that, everything from how to develop content to how a lot of the resources that we've talked about on this podcast and lots of other things, and I have all of those saved as essentially canned responses when we get off the interview, I will ask their permission to send them a valuable resource, right?

And so depending on what I know about them, I'll put all that in my CRM. And I'll have be like, Hey, I sent them this one and I've got two or three other ones. And I'm looking at how do I send just two or three pieces of like just overwhelming value. And so they'll get all those things.

And now you're sitting there like, now I've got the third thing, now prepared with an offer in the marketplace for the third thing.

Richard Matthews: And that's exactly what I'm talking about is like, so for me, I know someone's journey to getting a podcast, right? I know what all the problems are that people have. And those are all things that I don't offer in the marketplace, right? I could offer all those as services or as products, but instead I have them as in my back pocket as resources that I can give to someone.

And some of them are worth enough, like they're valuable enough that I could sell them and make them offers in the marketplace, but that's not what I want to do, right? I want to, I have this one offer and I want to scale this offer to wherever. So what you're looking at is if you've read Ramosi's book on creating a good offers, you're looking at all the other problems that people have, solve all those things and build those lead magnets, build those resources.

And you know, he talks about in that it's like, your lead magnets can't be crap, right? They have to be good, like the kind of stuff that when people get them, they're like, holy crap. Like this is

Kevin Rundle: I've paid for something that was less good than this.

And so when i'm looking for that strategic value to a potential high value client. I am going to offer them some sort of value directly after the interview. And so now what they have seen from us is they've seen our initial outreach. Our initial outreach was good, offering them value.

They get on our pre interview call and we had that exchange. And they know what our offer is and they have that pitch. And then we go through our interview and we exchange some stories. They know us, they know our values, they know how we think, they know about us and I know their stories. So they know, we know who they are and we understand who they are.

And then when we give them value at the end, it proves that you were actually listening that you actually cared and that you had something already where you're like, hey, I know a thing that can help you, right? And here's a help for you and all of this is cased in the idea that now they know what your offer is, and so when you follow up with them be like, hey, how did that training on the uh webinar go?

That's a withdrawal, you're not making the bank account negative, right? Cause you've put so much into the bank of goodwill that when you make an ask, it doesn't even make a dent in the, you know, in the amount of deposits that you've made.

Kevin Rundle: In the balance. Yeah.

Richard Matthews: In the balance. And so you can, after you've done that on your followup, start, you can start asking the questions like, Hey, I think you'd actually be a really good fit for a podcast, here's why. Right?

I know that's a long discussion, but does that make sense for how you can use your podcast to drive?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. No, it makes, this is going to be, going to be a dense episode to digest and we're already coming up on that hour. So, yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. I think this has been one of my favorite conversations we've had in a while.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, so I,

Kevin Rundle: Of it, yeah, I mean, I know it's fairly high level when it comes to the interview and stuff, but like, I think you're right.

The soft and hard calls to action there are truly like, there is no real hard call to action anyways, because even the hardest call is after all that goodwill has been provided.

Richard Matthews: And so when you get to that hard call to action, then you are, you've built a lot of goodwill with this person. And so what I have found over the course of my years experience doing this is that even when the answer is no, I don't wanna do this in my business, it's always followed up with, but I know someone else who would be a good fit.

Kevin Rundle: I want you to succeed. Even if I can't help you succeed.

Richard Matthews: Even if I can help you succeed, and so they're looking for ways to do that because you're leading with value in the marketplace, which is what everyone tells you to do.

And all we're doing here is just showing you how you can turn that leading with value into a strategic set of actions that you can take every single month on your podcast, right? And it'll just force you to do these things on a regular basis. So I know we were talking about two different types of calls to action, right?

The the ones for your networking and then the other one is, for your audience, right? So now your audience is seeing you do all of these things. They're seeing you have all these conversations. You want to also have the opportunity for your audience to become leads, right?

And that's going to be a separate section, those are the actual calls to action that you have on your podcast for your audience that they're listening to them. And that's where they're going to take longer to get to the point where they're going to convert, right?

They just are, you know, they're scrolling through their newsfeed and they see you every day on your podcast thing. And they're like, Oh, there's Richard talking about podcasts. Again, there's Richard talking about podcasts again. And it's just, they're just not in a place in their business where it makes sense until it starts to become interesting to them.

And then they might listen to an episode or two. And then they might hear your call to action. They might hear a few of your stories and then eventually become sales. So it's the kind of thing that might be six months or two years down the line. But you always want to have.

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. Sales cycles

Richard Matthews: Yeah, you always want to have your calls to action on your podcast.

So when it does come the right time that they know where they can go. And so on your podcast, there's two types of calls to action that we always recommend you have. And we talked about this in the content outlining section. So you've seen this before, and I just want to make sure you see where it fits here.

And that's the soft called action, the hard called action.

So the soft called action is your on platform action. That you want your listeners to take, right? And that's the Hey, if you liked this episode, click the like button and subscribe button, hit that notification bell, right? Whatever it is the on platform action.

You want to show up in their feed all the time. You want to create that omnipresence. And so the more people that will take that soft call to action, the better.

And then the second part is your hard call to action. The hard call to action is an off platform action, meaning you're gonna have to leave YouTube.

You're gonna have to leave, the podcast network to go to take Facebook.

Kevin Rundle: Twitter, LinkedIn.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. wherever you're at, they have to leave. And that's like, Hey, if you really like this content. Right? Click the link in the uh, first comment. Right? And go watch the whole episode. Right? If it's one of the short pieces of content.

And right. That's an off platform action. They're going to click the link. Go and listen to the whole episode. If you're on the actual episode, it might be like, Hey, if you liked this podcast, we actually have a document that goes along with what we're talking about today. Right? So like on our the episode that we did about content outlining, we have the content outlining training document.

It's nine bucks, right? It might be a paid offer, but you have some sort of a hard call to action that you can tie people to.

And so the way I like to think about those, your soft calls of action should be on everything. Your hard calls of action should be whenever they're relevant, right? So if I don't actually have a resource, That I'm going to send someone to I'm not going to just make up a hard call to action.

But if I do have a resource, I'll make sure that we include it and that there's a link in the description for it that they can go and pick those things up. And so the goal there is that you just want to have those calls call to action on every piece of content so that your audience has something they can do to move further into your sales cycle.

That's a lot simpler than the networking side, but does that make sense?

Kevin Rundle: Yeah. It makes perfect sense to me. We should maybe do some content on the actual process of the hard call to action side later.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, like do an actual interview on it, and go through the details on like here's how you built some calls to hard calls to action.

So the two types of podcast. Right? There's the media podcast where the podcast is the business and there's a strategic influence podcast where the podcast supports an existing business, right?

So we're building strategic influence podcasts. And with those strategic influence podcasts, three ways to drive sales, right?

You have your ads, right? And those are the ads generally to self sponsor your own show, right? It's like, Hey, this show is put together because of our business. If you're interested in what we do, check us out over here. And those are going to be either in your intro, in your outro, or maybe an interstitial commercial where you drive someone to your business like directly to a lead or a sales call or something like that.

And then you have your direct sales and that's where you have like your dream, 100 clients, your high value clients, and you're going to use your podcast interview to build that no like and trust before, during and after the interview. And it's all about driving that value relationship.

And the third way is with the networking, same kind of thing as with your high value clients. And the only real difference is going to be at the end of the interview. Who are you providing the value to? And so this is strategic partner.

And then the last part that we just talked about was the soft and hard calls actions that are for your audience who are listening to your podcast. You should always have soft calls to action and whenever it's relevant, have the hard calls to action to drive people to it. And that's high level, all the different things that go into actually using your podcast to drive to an action.

So thou shalt always drive to an action.

Kevin Rundle: Always. To the action.

Richard Matthews: Always drive to an action. Awesome. So Kevin, thank you again so much for hopping on our podcast and having these conversations with me. I appreciate it, I hope my audience appreciates it as well. And I think we're going to come back next time. And we're going to talk about, I believe the four B's, which we mentioned a bit today, which is buy, borrow, build and blitz.

His are great actually like mine better. I, think the buy, borrow, build, bliss is more fun. So we'll have that discussion. And

Kevin Rundle: I have somebody who does four C's in the marketing world. I can't remember what they are. Connect, Communicate. I can find it. I, I used to know them out by heart,

Richard Matthews: So when we get that interview together, maybe

Kevin Rundle: All you marketers, you love your alliterative letters.

Richard Matthews: I do, you know, I was the attention awareness authority buy, borrow, build, blitz. Like, it's a mnemonic to help people remember things. And that's why we, you know, like the 10 commandments thou shalt drive to an action. Thou shalt be consistent. Thou shalt have good. It's that literate of literary repetitiveness helps people remember things.

And, maybe at some point we can do a whole podcast interview on how you do that when you're creating content, because there's a method to that madness and it's useful to talk about.

We'll create content about it. So, that's it.

Kevin Rundle: Victory.

Richard Matthews: Thanks for joining us this week on PBP.Fm. Make sure to visit our website PBP.fm where you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or via RSS so you'll never miss a show. While you're at it, if you found value in the show, we'd appreciate a rating on Apple Podcasts. Or if you'd simply tell a friend about the show, that would help us out too.