OUR HOSTS: 

Corinne Foxx - @corinnefoxx

Natalie McMillan - @nataliemcm and @shopnataliemcmillan 

What we're drinking: Seoul Juice 

MEET OUR GUEST: 

Alexa Shoen - @alexashoen 

ABOUT OUR GUEST: 

Alexa Shoen is a writer, global technology leader, internet personality, and the author of #ENTRYLEVELBOSS: How To Get Any Job You Want. With over 15,000+ copies sold and climbing, it’s one of the bestselling career books of the new economy. Alexa has worked as a global technology leader at both Meta and TikTok – and she's now documenting her first-ever career sabbatical in her new Substack newsletter, which is titled Selfish & Thoughtful.

TOPIC: 

In our conversation with Alexa, we cover her nine-step process for landing your ideal job, common job hunting mistakes, and how to navigate a career change. She breaks down what inspired her to pursue career coaching in the first place and eventually publish her guide to creating your dream job. Alexa shares her tips for building a professional network and making the interview process a little less stressful. Plus, she gives some insight into her experience taking a sabbatical and pivoting in her career. 

In this episode, we discuss:

• The two reasons that people get hired (spoiler alert: it has nothing to do with their degree) 
• How to craft your target employer list
• Ways to network until you get work
• Tools to effectively articulate your backstory during an interview 
• Where most people get stuck when they don’t have ‘official experience’ 
• Strategies for figuring out the right career path for you 
• What you can expect from Alexa’s Substack newsletter 

END OF THE SHOW: 

Corinne and Natalie introduce Hottie of the Week: Gwyneth Paltrow

DRINK RATING:

Seoul Juice  = 5.5 / Miss Goop 

WRAP UP:

To wrap up the episode, Corinne and Natalie play Unpopular Opinion. Corinne thinks Thanksgiving is overhyped, especially the menu. Natalie doesn’t think that Mariah Carey’s “All I Want for Christmas Is You” deserves the top Christmas song spot. 

We have a newsletter for our Am I community. You can sign up for the newsletter on our website: amidoingthisrightpod.com

You can email us for episode ideas or Solicited Advice: amidoingthisrightpod@gmail.com

Follow us on Instagram: @amidoingthisrightpod 

Don't forget to rate and review the podcast! It really helps us grow!

Hey welcome back to another episode of am I doing this right? I'm Corinne Foxx.

And I'm Natalie McMillan.

And we are best friends confidants millennials and the hosts of am I doing this right? A life how to podcast from the perspective of non experts.

And each week we cover a new topic and we drink a new beverage you guys, we're not drinking wine every week, we had to let that one go. We've gotten some emails. I know. We're like, you know what, like, I don't drink wine. But like, you could try cocktails or like other things. I was like, okay, everybody's on board.

Yes, we are definitely on board. And this week, we are talking your hired how to land your dream job with career coach and author, Alexa shown. We're gonna be talking to Alexa about her nine step process for landing your dream job, common job hunting mistakes, and how to make a big career change which I feel like a lot of people are really scared to do and also think with this academy. It's real. It's real time. I know it's a real scary place to be in the job Mark especially

when you're young, like right out of hall right out of college but you I mean, anytime honestly. Just like scan we out hands.

I'll see you guys don't forget you can always write in an episode suggestion at am I doing this right pod@gmail.com And we are bringing back solicited advice. Yes. So if you have something going on in your personal or professional life, you can email us at am I doing this right pod@gmail.com And we will give you our advice right here on the podcast. And at the end of the episode. We're playing unpopular opinion. So tune in and see if you guys agree with us.

I was thinking of mine on the way over and I was like, risk. Oh, maybe something spicy. Oh, no. Okay, now what are we drinking? Okay, I'm very excited because it's not wine. We did a year of wine or no two years of wine years of wine every week. You guys it took a toll. Okay. Ooh, okay. to Bristol Farms. We mean me. And Bristol Farms is like kind of it's like, fancy It's a fancy grocery market place. Yeah. So this is like some sort of I don't even know what this is so cool. Like as in in South Korea. Yes. Soul juice Korean pear juice beverage to it. It's sparkling. No, it has over 400 milligram milligrams of potassium. Oh, that's good. electrolyte.

Oh, it says it tastes like a less sugary apple juice says an Amazon customer. Oh, okay. Yeah. Good.

All Amazon customer reviews. That could be literally anyone. It's not even their name. It literally says Amazon Amazon customer review. Made with only three ingredients. Okay. Okay, let's see if I can open my grip strength. Oh, we'll discuss at the end. Okay, we're gonna read it at the end you guys and let you know how we have this Korean pear juice. Yeah, never had entertains our palate quite like it. But not you had a bit of a stressful way. Oh my god. Yes. Okay, people if you're listening, pay attention on the road. And this man I was at a four way stop. I was actually thinking about this yesterday because I was going through a four way stop that was only had two stop signs. And I was like, this could get really risky. If somebody right if there's too and yeah, and there's. So I was like, Man, that could be really risky. And then I was coming over here and I was at a four way stop with four signs. And this dude, I had stopped and then I started going in he just ran straight through the stop sign. And almost like any bone, like well, I thought he was going to keep on me and then he like kind of swerved out around the front of me. And then there was somebody at the other side of the stop that he then like almost head on hit. It's weird because I also saw a car accident this morning.

Oh my God. Not weird. Was it what was like a fender bender? Or was it like a no it wasn't bad. Because it was in a residential area but the guy airbags went off. Oh my god. There's really bad for him. It's so loud. Yeah, it was on my morning walk. Everyone was fine. Stay safe out there. Yes. I've been waiting. very queasy. Ah, okay, should we get into let's let's bring Alexa on. I feel like she's gonna have great energy. Yeah, we need a we need energy. You need a good energy way but I want to give her a little intro first in case people don't know. You know? We're talking about here.

Oh her you might know her actually from Tiki Toki from that tick tock. Tick tock. She is a career guy. And she talks to her 210,000 plus, plus followers about how to navigate life and work after you know, you're done with school. You're in a new area of your life. She's the author of hashtag entry level boss how to get any job you want, which is one of the best selling career books of the New Economy. Ooh. And her advice seems to work magic. According to the books cult like following have happily employed readers. We love we love a magic moment. She's worked as a global technology leader at both meta and Tik Tok and she's now documenting her first ever sabbatical in her new substack which is titled selfish and thoughtful. Alexa has been featured in Forbes The Economist Wall Street Journal KTLA Harper's Bazaar, stylist, and more. And am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? pod@gmail.com Let's, let's bring on Alexa. Hello.

Hey, hey, what's up squad how we live in.

Natalie had a rough go this morning. Not gonna lie. But you know, your listeners have already heard ya heard the story. But yeah, but we're good. Now.

We're here. And we are good. And

we all have to recenter ourselves on a Friday. It happens sometimes.

So are you on your way to Costa Rica get or what's the plan?

I am, there's a little part of me that feels deeply cliche for being like, I'm a 33 year old millennial woman who's gonna go full Eat, Pray Love on my life. But that's where we're at right now.

So no judgment. No, there's only inspiration. I'm like, I want to get to that place where I'm like, I can take time off and like, just focus on myself as a person.

I'm really excited about it. i Well, my mother gave me a talking to earlier this week, because I updated my Instagram bio to say that I was a husband, career coach who quit everything to go on sabbatical, like you're not has been like that. And I was like, but it's funny to say.

You're like, I'm here for the humor. No, I know what we were interviewing you. And like, we said, you know, your career coach. But then I'm like, well, it's not right. Not right now. But maybe again, or who knows what you'll find during this this time. One

of my very lovely followers pointed out to me, they go actually, you're such a good career coach that you career, coached yourself out of everything that you were doing, and into this next chapter of your life. And I was like, hell yeah. Yeah. Let's go that way. Sure.

That is it. Yeah. I love the reframe what? Okay, so I do want to talk about your times before you are has been.

Sounds good. I'm ready.

And you have this book, which is it is hashtag entry level boss, right?

It is okay. As indeed. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. So you

wrote a book, obviously. And then you are giving career advice on tick tock, what inspired you to write the book? And then how did you get into how do you even get into the career advice? Space? Yeah,

I became a career coach when I was 25 years old, which is bold, actually gets older every year that I get older. I'm good, good on you, You're wild. So the book is called hashtag and terrible boss how to get any job you want. And it is a summary of what started as a newsletter that I started when I was 25 years old. Because the way that I always explained it is I got a bachelor's in English, you know, went to Notre Dame did the right thing. And then immediately went to go get my version of a gap year master's stick with me, I got really, really drunk with my mom at this concert. And I decided that I really wanted to, like pursue music. And so long story short, that translated into me immediately getting a master's in jazz vocal performance, because it was too crazy, right to like, just become a musician, I needed to get an education or whatever. And I also really wanted to live in Europe, because I was going through my like expat phase. So I went to England to get my masters in jazz vocal performance. And that meant that I wound up starting my career back in California, a year and a half, after all my friends did, right. You know, it's so I think, a little bit less scary when you graduated 22 And everyone's going through it together. But all my friends had already gone through that horrible situation. And they were like, you'll get used to it, whatever, eight hours a day. Just turn your brain off, breathe through it, you'll be fine drink beer on the weekends. And I just couldn't understand why I felt so horrible and so confused. And then I finally realized that we were all taught. Follow your dreams, right? Like children of the 90s that's what we are right? Yeah, follow your dreams. It's gonna be great. Don't even worry about it. You're special and beautiful and super smart and you can be anything you want. But like it didn't really get any more specific than that. out like it was that was pretty much it. And then trying to, you know, desperately find career advice on Google or whatever. I always joke and say that all of the career advice that I found assumed that I could get an interview, it was explaining to me like, you know, here's how to nail in the interview. And I was like, this is bold, that you think that anyone is even answering my email. Right? Right. And so I became obsessed with this exact kind of period in the job search, which is, okay, you kind of maybe sort of figured out what you want to do, or you're not sure, but you have to get a job anyways. How do you get anyone to notice you write, the job search is notoriously horrifically complicated. But on top of that, it's it's really shameful and embarrassing, like, pretty much explicitly every single person that I've ever met, thinks they are uniquely the only one who's screwing up their career, right? And we all know these people. And we all know, people who, from the outside look like the coolest thing in the world, right? Maybe they even are famous, or have a bunch of money or work at some big brand name company. And even those people are like, I mean, I don't know, probably, if I left Google, I could probably never find another job. And I'm like, wow, like, we all are really screwed up on this. And so I just got obsessed with how do you even navigate that process? And what sort of curriculum could I create, that would help people know what to do next, because when you get really stressed out and ashamed and triggered, then all of a sudden, everything is coming from a place of panic, right? This is true of every single situation in the world, but especially true when you're running out of money and are not sure how you're going to pay your bills at the end of the month. And so I became very, very focused. And this is what entry level boss wound up being is, how could I create a nine step curriculum? That makes sense to us the same way that, you know, college did, right? Because this sort of going through, like to call it like, career puberty, basically, when you're graduating from college, and then all of a sudden, you're in the real world. No one has any advice for you because they forget that you don't know how to talk and act like what they think a grown up should act like yet. Yeah, well, cuz

I feel like we're not really grown up. I feel like, I need to know. Right, exactly. I just feel like I look back at myself at that age. And I was like, I thought I had it all figured out. And like I didn't, or maybe I wanted to believe I had it all figured out. And you just don't, you're so lost. You're flailing baby. And I think it's so great that you came up with this process for people well,

and then when you were saying when you were 25. Like the older you get, the more you're like, Oh my God, when I look back, I'm like, Oh, my God, I was a young child. Like 26. I'm like, Oh, my God. But okay, so you were talking about these, you have a nine step curriculum. Can you sort of very briefly, kind of rundown what these nine steps steps are?

Oh, how did you discover these nine? Yeah,

13:05

I discovered them in the genius that is my own brain. No, it basically somebody told me once that when you write a book, if either of you ever plan on writing a book, you can think about this. They said, Oh, I trust anyone who's ever written a book because they really, really had to think through everything in order to write it down. And I thought that was such a weird way to phrase it. But the nine step curriculum existed before I wrote the book. But once you're sitting there staring at it every day, things become so much sharper when you have to put it down into manual form, like textbook form, right? So I think it really crisped up, I guess, after the the book was published. But it pretty much goes in three parts. And this was sort of my goal was to articulate all the things that certain people learned around the dinner table because they're lucky and have smart, business minded parents. I wanted to articulate things that especially certain wealthy white people learn around the business table, because so much of what we call business culture and business speak is actually just the way that rich white people speak to each other. Right. So how do you codify that for people? And I joked with my publisher, at some point, I said that another name for this book could be how rich people get jobs. Because going through and explaining the way that people work, and connect and network and hope, gosh, I gotta introduce you to my buddy. And so I wanted to explain all of that background context. And I do in the book and sort of demystify various different things before I then dig into the actual actual curriculum. But really, what I break down for people is, I always joke and say, there's two reasons that people get hired. There's only two reasons that people get hired. And neither one of them is the fact that you have a degree. The only two reasons are because you either know how to save somebody some time, or make somebody some money. That's it. That's all businesses, right? Like, at the end of the day, that's that's literally all Yeah, And someone's salary is just a line on a profit and loss sheet in some business somewhere in the world. And so getting people to think that way and say, Okay, this is just a business transaction, right? I am going to give you basically a pre signed agreement for 40 hours in my work week. And in exchange, you're gonna give me 80 grand a year or something, right? And so how do you actually then accomplish that my nine step process goes in, in three different parts, which is, part one is you actually have to decide what kind of job you want to get hired for, which seems obvious, but most of us skip right over this and just start like panic sending our resume up and down LinkedIn all day long. You can do them scroll LinkedIn, I think better than you can even do scroll, Instagram, or Twitter. At this point, you're just like, Yeah, cool. Like, let me just like, apply to every single thing I can find. So you have to actually decide what kind of job you want. And then identify which companies can hire you. I call this the target employer list. And I think of it as very, very similar to the way that in the States, we're all taught to approach college admissions, right, which is you have your safety schools, you have your schools, and you have, you're like, Okay, I'm probably going to get into these. And every high school career college counselor, whatever has you make a list of 50 in places, and you can name their mascot and their school colors, and you know how big the campus is. And yet, we're totally fine sending out resumes on LinkedIn. And it's like, you don't even remember the name of the company. But apparently, it's gonna work 40 hours a week, right? So if we actually, you know, do that research, and it's like, okay, like, now we're gonna try to figure out how to get into these places. I don't give a shit if there's a career page that says there's a job opening or not right? Because then part three is, we network till we get work. So how do you work your way into these companies that you've said that you want to work for? Based on the kind of job you're trying to get?

Wow. Okay, well, I want to I want to stop you there. Because you brought up LinkedIn and like Doom scrolling it. And I feel like a lot of people look for jobs, obviously, on LinkedIn, and then zip recruiter and all of that. Is there unexpected places that you can find work or find a job? Or are there places that people maybe are looking 2020? Yeah,

I think that everyone uses LinkedIn as a place to find jobs. But there have been several, several, several studies that have been done. And I go through a couple of them in the book, showing that the vast majority of jobs come to you through something called weak ties. There was a psychologist at Stanford who did this study ages ago. And all of the major changes that take place in your life, the person, you're going to wind up marrying the job, you're gonna get somebody selling their house to you. It's always a friend of a friend. And they've done this study repeatedly over and over and over, because like, if your best friends could help you, they would say yes, but you don't know everyone that Natalie knows now that you don't know, everyone that Corinne knows. And so if you can communicate to each other and say, Okay, here's what I'm looking for, then one of you can say, Oh, I know somebody that you should go and meet, right. But that's really scary to do. Number one, because it's scary to articulate what it is that we want. And also you think that you're bothering your friend, or you know, you don't want to be a burden. And this is obviously especially true with with women and underrepresented, underestimated minorities. And so if you can get yourself to that place where you're going to be brave and put yourself out there, that's always going to be the best way to move forward. And a lot of times that's going to come in in surprising shapes and sizes. I'm not going to tell everybody oh my gosh, actually, you should just be like DMing strangers on Instagram. But if you're going into the fashion industry, or if you're going into, you know, beauty or if you want to work as a video producer for your favorite YouTuber, like Instagram was probably a way better use of your time. Yeah, then scrolling up and down LinkedIn. Right? But we're all kind of taught that, like, anything professional is happening on LinkedIn. And then where do all of us spend all of our time like on Instagram and Tiktok? Like, right? It's like, we kind of separate somehow. And we're like, oh, Surely all the grown ups are, what know all the grid onto there, like, millennials are what, like 43 years old. We're all in the same place, like hanging out on the same social media sites, and we're pretty accessible. If you pause to realize that anyone who's ever gonna hire you is also like, just a person. Yeah, right.

I think that is so profound, because I'm thinking about my own life. My relationship is a friend of a friend. Some of the biggest like opportunities I've had were because of somebody who knew somebody who then knew me. And so it's just like, I never thought about that, that that had no,

I was going through my head too. I'm like, even in my job. I'm like, oh, this person knew that person. Then they they told me about this, you know? Yeah, I've never been on leave. I think I have a link.

Yeah, we're, like we're not as familiar with the whole. I did have a corporate job for about six months, but that was about it.

Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. But let's say okay, so somebody, what was this called? It's called weak link. Weak weak ties. Theory of ties. Okay, interesting. So let's say either via weak tie, or LinkedIn or something, somebody gets an interview somewhere. Are there some like common mistakes that you see people make? Maybe through when you were coaching people, in the interview phase,

people are obsessed with how others are going to perceive their own backstory. And in the professional world, nobody really gives a shit. And what I mean about that is constantly I get DMS or whatever that are like, okay, like, do you think that I should like phrase it like this and my cover letter? And here's these, you know, and I worked here for six months, but then I was off for three months, and how should I explain it? How should I explain it? How should they explain it? And it's just a value exchange, which is such a like, you know, corporate buzzword the term but back to my concept of, you're either going to help somebody save some time or make some money. This is true in in anything, I don't care, entertainment jewelry, like it's a true hidden everything. So how are you going to do that? That should be the core focus. That's how you articulate everything, right? And, you know, the most obvious mistake that every single one of us has made, is when people say, Okay, tell me about yourself, right, scariest question in the world, we all are determined to like start at the beginning. Like we want to tell like a chronological story. It's human nature, right? It doesn't matter. If you went to college 10 years ago, I don't care what your degree was in really, right. It's almost like you want to tell it in reverse and be like, okay, you know, Hi, my name is Corinne, like, I'm currently the host of a podcast with 150,000 downloads through that like, and then you can kind of pick out things from your past. But starting from the place of like, Here is everything I have to offer you and present day, you have to figure out how to re articulate your backstory. And I think that it just takes practice, because I always say your resume is just a story that you're telling yourself, right? Like, we all unpack this in therapy, right? Like it hasn't. It's just a story you tell yourself. But the same thing is true of your resume, right? Like you are treating it like it's some professional, historical document or police report or something of here's everything that I did, but you're in charge of how you're explaining all of that, right? Like, yeah, the dates are the dates, but like you're in charge. And so how do you do that in a way that shows that you're going to provide value instead of obsessing over? You know, whether or not it makes you look good or whatever?

Yeah, my mom always said, What if I say it out loud. Now, maybe it sounds bad, but no one's gonna think about you as much as you are thinking about it and not. But But yeah, it's like you're thinking that they want to know, should I say that? I had three months off and bubble. It's like, they don't care. They How are you going to help me?

Like when you're like talking to somebody, like you're texting and all your friends are like, okay, no, don't say this. Like, say instead of saying, Yeah, say yes. Yeah, that's it, you know, and it's like, it's the exact same message and like, the dude's gonna get it and be like, like,

it like it rocked my mind cut God bless are securely attached friends, like rock. When I was like, you know, gonna send like, five paragraph essay to some dude or whatever. And my friend reads it. She goes, what is the correct like, outcome? What are you hoping that this person does when they receive this message? And I was like, wow, mind blown. And I make so many like bad jokes about dating and career stuff, because they are like, so similar in so many ways. And it's just like, yeah, like, the only point of a cover letter, DM, whatever, like, you're just trying to get somebody to text you back. Like, yeah, that's it. You don't they don't need your life story. They don't need to know that you're a Scorpio yet, like baby steps.

My deepest trauma is Yeah, yeah. We're gonna we're looking at your tic tock. Which is amazing. By the way, you have an amazing tic tock. Yes, you do. Yes. And so as a creative like you're saying Natalie and I, we don't have a ton of experience on one. And so I feel like as a creative you often have to have this is something you're addressing in your Tiktok you have to have experience to land the job that you want, but sometimes you don't get the opportunity to build the experience, then you're you're never able to even apply or you think you can't even apply for the job that you want. So I'm curious how can create if people like Natalie and I picked ourselves for roles maybe we haven't professionally had yet like how do you how do you step outside of your comfort zone and also just feel confident enough to be like, Yeah, I can do this. I have done it before, but I could because some things you can say like you need to have 10 years of experience. Yeah, like, and it's like, okay, so when I was nine, like what?

Yeah, yeah. So what you're referring to is I've made a couple of videos on LinkedIn about what I call the spiral of doom. Which is

that yeah, that sounds about right.

Trying to get caught in, which is like, Oh, well, you know, Alexa, like, it's not fair. Like, I don't have any experience, no one's gonna hire me. But then like, I need someone to hire me so that I can get experience, but no one is going to like hire, and I need the experience. And you just kind of go around and around, I get trapped in a circle, right, like over and over and over. And I'm so fascinated by how much the world has really changed if we like, pause and think about it. And so this sort of 90s era culture that we grew up in of like, well, follow your dreams work hard, you know, make sure you go to college, college college. And what was still true at that time was that education was something that other people had to give you permission to do, right? Like they have to let you into university, you have to be admitted one of these places, and then you will have the degree and then you can sort of trade that degree in for being on the partner track or whatever, you can learn pretty much anything you want on YouTube or Tik Tok or Instagram now, right or at your local library or whatever. And as a privileged white person, I'm never ever, ever going to tell anyone not to go to college, because that is so not my place to do yet. And I don't think that we're at that place yet. And so many industries still really, really value a college education. But what's interesting is now you've got a bunch of people who have college degrees or have master's or whatever. And they're like, Well, you know, I got educated, but I don't have any experience, you know, so what the heck, that's where I need you to put your problem solving college educated thinking cap on and be like, Okay, how do I solve this problem, right? And the problem is, how do I show not tell? How do I demonstrate that I could do this. And that is where especially as creative people, it's like, come on now, like, you know, expand your mind, figure out any outside of the box, cool way that you can try to show and demonstrate that you can do the thing. And this is where it gets really, really tricky, I think because you don't want to be exploited and be working for free or working for exposure, and people can get trapped in that. But the concept of spec work speculative work in Creative Industries has been true since the beginning of time, right? Was it? Issa Rae I think, like made full YouTube series, right? Like so so many people had entire series on YouTube before they got their HBO feel that anyone could you all three of us could like sit down today and be like, cool. Now. Now we host a YouTube show. And we kind of joke and say, Ah, but like, you could write anything, they could create a tick tock that then goes viral, or put out a bunch of designs for new fashion line or whatever. And so that is the I think kind of key is just focusing back in on like, how do you demonstrate it in a way where people are gonna believe you?

Right? Yeah. And like, who cares if anyone hired you for that job? It's that you're, you've already done the work? Yes.

Yeah. I always say I'm like, it's nobody's business, whether or not you get paid to do this thing. And I find that people really, really get stuck on the concept of official experience, which is like, well, if it wasn't a full time internship, then it doesn't count or like, if I wasn't getting paid for it, then it doesn't count or you know, if it was a volunteer thing that doesn't count. I'm like what who's counting what? Like, there's no like resume police that's gonna like parish you down and be like, ma'am, taking you to what cover letter prison like I don't? Yeah,

I'm in a I'm an exec at a production company. And we have this TV show written by this brilliant writer. But when we met her, she was an assistant at Netflix. She had never had any professional writing gigs. She was literally getting people coffee. And the work that she submitted to us was so good that we believed in her. It wasn't we don't care that she had never sold a script before that she had never worked in a writers room that she didn't didn't have any literally no experience. And then over this year of developing the script with her, she's already now she's a full time writer. And now she has all that experience. But we didn't care that she had that she was literally getting people coffee at all. She was we're having scenes with her on her lunch break at Netflix like Hey, guys, that's awesome. Yeah. And so you think about her and now we're pitching her show to like to Netflix. Everybody has to start somewhere. You know, everyone started somewhere. I'm just thinking about your tiktoks There was one I think it would be very surprising for our listeners to hear where you said that if you're not careful, you can actively Create a career that you hate. So can you elaborate on that a little bit, and then maybe guide people on how they can create a career that they love? Or realize that or Yeah,

yeah, like you were even notice, notice that you've made it a career that you are built a career that you hate. So this was advice that was given to me a few months into the pandemic. And at the time, I was running entry level boss as an education company full time, my my book had just come out came out May 2020, which was rough can't do a book tour we can't really do in person of them. So like, I guess, you know, we could help all these universities that need help with their career centers. And I don't ever recommend trying to sell to universities and academic institutions, they're, they're not my favorite colleagues that I've ever had. But I was so focused on like, Okay, what does the company need to do to survive? That I wasn't pausing to think about whether or not I actually wanted to run this business. And I was working with a really smart woman at the time, who made us sort of pause and do the whole vision board, what what does this company would like five years from now, right? Like, if this company is successful, 10 years from now, not even how much money is it making? But like, what, what is that? What does that look like? What's going on? And I was kind of starting to write it out. And she was like, you don't seem to be anywhere in this company. And I was like, Yeah, I don't I don't want to do that. Actually. And that was when she sat back. And she said, You're the CEO and founder of NGO was the education company. Are you building a company that you hate? Like, is that what's happening right now? And I say in the book that like, the easiest way to get yourself in career trouble is to follow well intentioned advice, right? Because everybody is going to give you advice based on what they sort of haphazardly, maybe think that you should do that. The examples I give in the book, right are like, you know, your manager is going on maternity leave. And so she wants you to take over her job. And then, you know, your mom always said that you should get an MBA. So you go and do that your dad suggested that you go in this direction, and you're trying to follow good advice and follow smart advice. And none of it's bad. It's just that none of it is anything that you've necessarily had a strong opinion about yourself. Yeah. And I think so many of us, you know, are jealous of people who knew from the age of 15, that they wanted to go to USC. And so you fill them in, like, and that was it. And that was all they were gonna do in their life. Like, I'm jealous of those people. Like, in my high school class, I'm like, shit, how did you know you want to teach at like, 16 this stuff. And now they've gone off and done wonderful things. But the vast majority of us are kind of trying to like, I don't know, wade through Muddy Waters of like, I'm kind of interested in a lot of stuff. And I don't really know. And it feels scary to sort of go all in on anything. And so then you kind of just wind up with this half assed, like, situation, right? And this just sort of collection of, of little baby careers that you have. And that's how I feel about my own career in many ways, right? Is I'm just like shit, and like, which one of these do I actually want? Like, yeah, and how do I go forward in that direction? As opposed to I think what drives a lot of us, right, which is fear and safety, like that's, that's what drives everybody. And we're so taught on our like, you know, 90s kid, good, bad advice. I should write that book, that book will do well, but like, 9090 is good, bad advice, which is keep your options open, right? And all of a sudden, I'm like, Okay, now I'm 33. Like, I'm not gonna want this many options, like, you know, and there's certain people who tripled down on something and go in that direction. And you're like, Oh, I wish I was brave enough to even tried to discover which one of these I wanted.

Yeah. And so do you feel like part of this sabbatical? Is you trying to like get rid of those options and refocus on like, what is that thing?

Yes. Hard. Yes. So I shut down. The company that I've mentioned, can't shut down a book book exists, the book is out there in the world. I love being able to have this conversation. And it will always be such an important part of my identity. And I'm really proud that I built what I built with centriole boss. I was working at tick tock corporate, and my last day was zero a week ago. So the payroll at TIC tock corporate now, yeah. But, you know, I joke on my tic tac, I was like, I had to like quit multiple jobs and sort of take off all these coats and layers in order to be able to take a hard pause. And I have to follow my own advice in the book, which is in order to go fast, go slow, right. We've all heard this before, but I could go get a job at a different big tech company or I could write another book proposal where I could try to go get signed as an influencer, or I could go like, and none of those options sound good or bad to me right now. And that's how I know I'm in trouble. Like, I'm like, I feel nothing. And so I said, okay, like, I'm gonna give myself the biggest gift that that you can give yourself in this situation, which is, let me pause, go sit in the jungle and do yoga and think about what I've done. And try to just, like, get a clearer head in order to make a decision that that excites me. Because right now, you know, it's such a beautifully privileged place to be in to know that I have options. But I know that if I took on any one of them, I just be bitching about it six months from now, and I don't want to be that person. Yeah. So I'm

so brave of you to do this. Because it's, it sounds like, Oh, how nice would be to just go to Costa Rica, but it's actually really, I'm sure your internal work scared, I would assume. You're like, you know, to be like, Okay, I'm not gonna do what I've been doing. And this is a big leap of faith. So I think it's super brave and super inspirational. I also went to Costa Rica, but I was more of a post breakup, I want to find myself and be alone, kind of, that's good. So you're gonna love it. I only went for 10 days or something. But it was so beautiful. So you're gonna have the best time. But you're actually you're really excited. You're still kind of doing a little something, though, because you have this new substack letter, right? Called selfish and thoughtful. What sort of like advice or stories can readers expect? Expect? Yeah.

So someone asked me, When I announced that I was starting this new newsletter, somebody asked me, I said, Why writing, they're like you, you love making your tiktoks. I'm on Instagram stories. Like, as if it's my like, buddy system, I have like a very intense connection to my, my Instagram. And they said, why writing and I kind of thought about it. And I thought, writing is the most helpful way for me to learn from myself. You know, I think that video is maybe in many ways, the most helpful ways that other people learn from me. And also, I'm addicted to instant gratification. So sitting and writing a book was difficult like to do that kind of long form processing. But writing has always been how I can best sit down and process my own thoughts. And I like doing that sort of, you know, in community where it were in front of others, or publicly, I find that I really get something from that, because it feels like it can feel really lonely when you're trying to make big life changes, like really, really lonely. And so it feels a little bit less scary to me to do it in front of other people, which is sort of counterintuitive, but I find that it helps me to not even stay accountable. But just to say okay, like, I'm going through this and at least somebody knows about it this week. And so that's that's what I'm doing in this new substack is just kind of processing my sabbatical in real time and trying to vibe it out and take it week by week. So I'm putting out newsletters about once a week. I think I might also make like a like Wednesday like lifestyle article. Tick tock update. TBD. I don't know, apparently, we're gonna get good Wi Fi in the jungle. So

no, I'm so excited to read your substack I think that's such a great way to go about it to to write and I understand that like, video can feel performative, too. And so, you know, you get to really sit down and think and process and it's really more for you, and then we all just get to benefit. You're like journal. So I'm so excited for this new chapter in your life. I'm so excited to see where it takes you and good for you for taking this leap of faith. I hope it inspires our listeners and we'll link everything that you're doing in our show notes so that they can find you. I'm sure they're gonna want after this conversation. And best of luck. I'll send you some RECs too.

Oh, yes, please. Yes, please. I would love that. Um, I'm very excited. I keep joking with my Instagram, but I'm gonna get accidentally knocked up in Costa Rica and some girl DM me back and she was like, my husband's ex actually got pregnant in Costa Rica. I think about her. Like, whatever. Like we're up for every event.

Okay, see, I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time and that we'll be following along.

Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate both of you. And yeah, good luck. Thank you

I love her love her so much. She's got great energy.

Yes. And I just feel like she's chill, but informative,

very informative. I know what I mean and very spiring and I feel like also, she's really vulnerable about, like, where she's at and what she's doing. And like, I always trust people who are like, Yeah, I'm not sure. Yes. But you know, know that like they're not lying. Yeah, you know. So I'm excited to see where where the future takes. Yeah. Well, we hope you guys learned more about how to find a job, how to make a big career change, and how you can be more fulfilled in your work and we'll link everything that she's doing in our show notes so you guys can keep up with Alexa.

Should we talk about this? Little Bevy? We've been having

sold juice sold juice. Yes. Okay, so it's this Korean pear juice beverage juice beverage juice beverage, because it's only and we can't forget the Amazon customer review. Tastes like a less sugary apple juice. Yes. Which I don't know if I can I sort of get it. It almost to me tastes like a less sugary apple juice and a coconut water. Mm hmm. Smells like coconut water. Well, let's announce our hottie of the week. And then we can rate Oh, this feels like a very something that she was right. Yes, yes. Or how do you the week is Miss Gwyneth Paltrow goop herself and we chose her because she made a big career shift and she was an actress and then she went out and made a company and she was like, This is me. Nevermind. I don't like this anymore. Now she's goop now. She's Miss goo. And I feel like goop would drink this. Oh, what's a goopy drink? It's a very heavy drinker. Guess a wonder? Gweneth what do we think about the soul juice? I'll give it like a for its refresh. It's just like, it's very mild. I will say but i i The fact that it's low sugar. Not really low sugar. I was gonna say that's pretty low. Really? whole bottle. Yeah. Okay, so it's 14 grams of sugar for a low sugar drink. That doesn't have that. I hate that weird. Fake sugar tastes well. There's no fake sugar in it. It's literally pear juice. Lemon juice and water. No. I would actually give it like a seven. All right. Yeah, my my reason for doing I would buy this again. Oh, see? I don't think I would only because, you know, like, not enough. I don't know. It's just like, yeah, like I would want something if I'm gonna buy a drink. I wanted to pack a punch. You want it to taste like a drink? Yeah. Okay, so it's just like a slightly flavored water. So five and a half? I don't know. But I will say yes. Five and a half out of miscue you

all right, this is part of the episode where we play a little wrap up game and this week we are playing as promised unpopular opinion. I'm curious about yours not. Okay. So my you know, here we are.

We're about to hit Thanksgiving in the holiday. Oh, no. Dammit. We have the same one continue to we. Mine is. I always feel like I have to preface these two because when we do underrated overrated. I've never it's never that I don't like the thing I'm talking about. It's just like in relation to so like, I love Mariah Carey. I do. I love Mariah Carey. I don't think that all i want for Christmas is use like the best Christmas song of all time. Which I for fun Connors listening. He will actually probably he would come Yeah, attack me. But, you know, do you have a favorite that you think this is superior? I think just like the classics. Okay, you know, like your classic Christmas songs. I just feel like people lose their fucking mind. Over all I want for Christmas. It's in every store. It's everywhere. It's so I feel like it's blown out of proportion. Okay, this is not to say I don't like it. Right? I do like it. I just feel like the degree in which it's regarded Yes. Not appropriate. Right. I feel like just hit me with like a real classic cozy Christmas Carol. Oh, a carol. Well, what are they? What are they Christmas songs? Yeah. What's the difference between a carol and Carol is We Wish You a Merry Christmas. Oh, shoot. I'm like there's no way you know, a song like Santa baby or something. Yeah, like those. Yeah, that's not a carol are walking in winter one. Yes. Those are the classic ones. Yeah, in my mind. Okay. God is an unpopular opinion. Yeah, sure. Very popular. But hey, I still love Mariah not not trying to draw No, I don't think this is more Icelander. No.

Okay, so my Well, I had one, and then you I thought you were going one way and actually, you didn't and I'm just going to say what I thought you were going to So okay, which is I don't really like Thanksgiving like that. Oh, no, no, I do not care for Thanksgiving. I could skip things. I mean, here's the thing. I love the values of it family and food and friendship and celebrate it like, oh, I don't even care about that. But like, I don't know, it's so underwhelming, and like the food is, Turkey is dry as hell turkeys like not my favorite. I like I like the mashed potatoes. I guess. My mom's cream corns pretty good. But like, I read a pizza. If I'm doing Thanksgiving, like, you know the stuffing or like the sweet potatoes like the with the marshmallow. I like the desserts, the desserts. But it's just like it doesn't really hit No, especially it's like a huge ordeal for it feels like a pain in my ass. Yes. Maybe it's because we're women and that the pressure of having to cook is more so on us. And all the dudes are just watching football. There's Yeah, I will say thank God Joe does not watch football. Just Thanksgiving. I know, Kenny and I a couple years ago, we just like went and saw two movies back to back. I would love that. Yeah, I was like, let's just do this blow through that day. It's not you know, it's just such a big to do. It's a big it's kind of like the Moriah thing where it's like it's so blown out or like it's fine. But it's just so blown out and like right now I'm in a weird position. Where am I do I put up my Christmas decorations? So I have to wait for Thanksgiving. I have to like oh right out. I mean, it's like I have I had Halloween decorations up together. I'm not gonna decorate for Thanksgiving but turkeys everywhere. Here's everything about Thanksgiving. If and this is I feel like most people at this point. If you have a your family is not just your mom and your dad. And like it's all over the place. What do you mean? Like you're invited to like five different Thanksgivings? Because it's like your dad's having one your mom's having Yeah, your sister in law's having one your you'd like your stepsisters have. There's a million Thanksgivings. And then you have to choose and somebody's mad. It's like, oh my god. Just let me go watch a movie. Yeah, I was just saying Thanksgiving is a little a little too much. And it's not giving what it should give. Which is good. Thanks. Give me all right, you guys.

Well, like we said at the top of the episode you can always write into Am I doing this right pod@gmail.com Right in for episode requests, or just to ask for advice on something. Yes. We want to get one of the full advice. Yeah, we're by the end of the year. Yeah. So email us something that's going on in your life and we will answer it on the podcast. And we will be back next week with another episode. Love you guys. Love

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you. Bye