Josiah Ball's career in coffee has spanned more than a decade and taken him from making "lattes" without an espresso machine to serving $12 pour overs as the manager of AM:FM's Euclid Street location. Josiah's focus on empathy through meeting people where they are at and guiding them to an elevated experience has given him a uniquely broad perspective on Specialty Coffee, which he shares with us in this wide-ranging, delightful conversation.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

Hawkins Cheezies @hawkinscheeziesofficial - Hudson whiskey @hudsonwhiskey - AM:FM Coffee Cocktails Vinyl @amfm_coffee - Balzac's Coffee Roasters @balzacscoffee - Cafe Lumiere @cafelumierecanada - Proud Mary @proudmaryusa - Joe Bean Roasters @joebeanroasters - New City Cafe @newcityroc - Fuego Coffee Roasters @fuegocoffee

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Behind the Glass

Behind the Glass, hosted by Richard B Colón and Quajay Donnell, is a monthly talk with the current month’s BTG Roster. Artists are interviewed about their submissions and we dive deep into their process, inspiration and thought process centralized around their artwork in the Behind the Glass Gallery located in the heart of Downtown Rochester NY. https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm/

Welcome to dialed in.

I'm Wade Reed.

I'm Aaron Pascucci and we're joined tonight.

By our fabulous producer, Chris Lindstrom.

How's it going, boys?

It's a beautiful day in Rochester.

It.

It is really was nice.

So nice.

I thought I could run like a really rushed 5k right before I got in the car to pick up Aaron.

And that was not great.

Yeah, that's not a great idea.

Was it that the 5Ks were too many Ks or that you are untru trained right now?

Probably your problem.

Oh, that I got in my car and thought my heated seat was on.

That my face is probably tomato ish right now.

It's like, that's more the issue.

It has.

It has a beautiful healthy.

There you go.

Red pink glow.

And I had a little white hoodie on for the contrast.

Right.

If I just grab the maroon hoodie, you could probably notice a little less.

Good.

Yeah, you better be careful because, you know, like your T shirts are going to start to get the yellow.

The armpits start.

No, but okay, so I'm wearing a new hat tonight.

Like Wade, you know.

You know, so, you know, like I. I've told hat stories on this podcast before.

What was the hat you had that the guy gave you?

That's a Huds girlfriend.

My Hudson whiskey hat.

Yeah, yeah, that.

That's a great story.

This hat is so funny because my boss, Eric Nagel kind of went, made a trip to Boston last weekend or this past weekend and none of us knew he was going, but it was apparently like a pre planned soccer tournament for the girls soccer team that he coaches from out of Churchville and all that.

And he was around, they were in Boston.

So he's around Fenway park and he saw all these hats and he thought, Wade likes Boston.

Wade likes hats, you know, and he found probably the most unique one with the sicko logo, you guys know about like the giant sicko sign at Fenway.

And like, I didn't really know a whole lot about this, but I mean, this hat is actually pretty hard to find.

Neat.

Like it's one of those like you, you buy it in proximity to the stadium at stadium store, that kind of thing.

Like there are versions of it with like larger lettering, all this kind of thing.

But then like, so I didn't know much about the sitgo sign, but right after I got the hat, I found out it's being torn down right now to be moved.

So they're apparently moving it.

So who knows, maybe the hat becomes a collector's item.

Ooh, unacceptable.

That sign should never go away.

I. I mean, I don't know if they're.

It's unclear.

The article I read said it's unclear what it will do, you know, for the view of the stadium.

But, yeah, so that's kind of the, the cool thing for my week.

And it was so funny.

He, like, shows up the warehouse with his hand behind his back.

I'm like, what, what is he.

I couldn't possibly imagine what he had for me because.

Yeah.

Anyway, there's more plot there, but.

How's your week, Aaron?

How you feeling?

You know, considering everything I looked at when shingles started for me and I was talking to my mom and I was like, mom, I just don't know if I can take another month of this.

She goes, what do you mean?

I go, it's been like two months.

So.

So we looked at the calendar.

She was like, you know, it's only been like three weeks, so it feels like it's taken forever.

If this video does get posted, you know, the newest thing is that my eyes are extremely sensitive to light.

So I'm like literally going to be closing my eyes while we've got a studio lighting going on.

But I'm actually doing a lot better in general.

My face is all cleared up.

Um, though I had a little scare last week.

You know, Chris, you'll appreciate the craziness of this with your bad eye situation.

Oh, yeah.

Went into a routine follow up with the ophthalmologist that's looking at me for the shingles thing.

And she looks at me and she says, you need to go see a cornea specialist today.

And I'm like, that is never a good side.

No, today is not the, Today's not.

The window for medical now.

You don't, you don't want to hear, today is the window of opportunity for that.

So I've got no more sick time at work, which sucks because now I'm just like taking days without pay and, you know, what can you do, right?

But, well, luckily at this point, like, like nothing can happen in the shop that's going to hurt your eyes anymore.

So it's fine.

Yeah, it's all good.

So I got to go visit Hannah's unit and hang out in her office, which I hadn't gotten to see after, you know, 20 years of marriage.

So that was kind of fun.

Nice.

Silver linings.

Silver linings, right.

So I got to see my cornea specialist and they're looking at a few things I'm on, you know, Some medicine, fingers crossed, knock on wood, that things are going to be better.

Yeah.

So think things potentially can be better.

Yeah, that's, that's about as much optimism for Aaron's health.

Yes, for Aaron's health.

We're going to limit the scope of that one.

Guys, listen, we don't want to be spreading this information.

I don't want to lose my eye.

Okay?

That's not going to happen.

Like that's not going to.

You're not going to lose your eye.

That's not going to happen.

Chris.

Things can get better.

Oh yeah, things can get better.

Yeah.

I'm flying to tomorrow.

I'm flying to Alabama for a funeral for not family, but one of my wife's friends.

Never been to Alabama.

So I always try to map out like, hey, if I'm going to a place I've never been, where can I try?

Yeah.

Coffee.

So, yeah.

So I looked pretty desolate in Montgomery.

And then Starbucks in there.

Yeah.

There is a local roaster.

Great.

Looks like it's probably more developed, but I'm going to give them a try.

And then, you know, the big thing is like I'm driving on a two hour road trip to the town we're going to, which means small town, roadside stands.

Okay.

So I'm look, I'm gonna look for local produce, I'm gonna look for roadside stands, get some real Southern style barbecue, Alabama style barbecue, you know, soul food style barbecue.

You know, try that stuff out.

And you know, in those circumstances you try to grab those little rays of sunshine through the process because like if you're not, you should try to enjoy the things you have at that time.

So that's what I'm gonna do this weekend.

It's like people live there and we assume they're not miserable so they must have something they enjoy.

Yeah.

And there's a ch.

Will also bring you some joy.

Yeah, they enjoy humidity and super hot temperatures.

I mean.

Yeah.

Here I was trying to be positive.

All right, just bring us down, Chris.

We have a guest here tonight.

Fellows.

I know he's been politely quiet.

Would like to say welcome to Josiah Ball, currently of AM FM Coffee.

Yeah, I, I was like, do I say something?

Laughs back or whatever you want to do, man.

Like, do we seem like we have a, a plan here?

No, that's what I was like.

Okay, we're going in.

Yeah.

Going to say how was, how was your week?

Any, any personal news?

Let's see this week, any major life events?

Nothing really.

Yeah, we've been busy.

Shop.

What about tomorrow?

Oh, come on.

Tomorrow?

Tomorrow.

Well, this.

I was thinking the week past.

Yeah.

My five year anniversary is next week.

Tomorrow we're celebrating cuz, you know, it's in the middle of the week, so you got to choose a weekend.

Heck yeah.

This is the one.

So we're going to Niagara on the lake.

Ooh.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, love it.

A little wine and dine for the wifey.

Yeah.

So we always go to like check out.

There's no coffee shops there.

Well, there's two now up there and one is Balzac.

Balzac.

It's mean, it's.

It's coffee shop.

And then the other one my wife wants to check out is they say they're a French inspired cafe.

Okay.

And so they're just rude to you.

They're called Lumieres.

So.

Okay.

You know, and I went on their Instagram to check them out and I didn't see a single cup of coffee.

So I don't know what kind of.

A cafe it is.

And yeah, I don't.

And there's a lot of pastries, so the pastries look good though.

Matcha and pastries.

That's most cafes Instagrams these days.

I think like that's.

It is a becoming pretty standard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's cool though.

I mean like, congrats.

That, that'll be fun.

And yeah, yeah, I have to try to keep the shop from falling apart while you're gone.

I got a question too.

Yeah, well, Chris, if you want to chime in, I think you got a cafe question.

No, I have, I have a snack.

I have a snack recommendation.

Snack go.

So go to a grocery store, gas station.

You have to try the finest of snacks that Canada has to offer.

They're called Hawkins Cheesies.

Hawkins Cheesies.

They are Cheetos, but turned up 50% crunchier, 50% more cheese.

Okay.

And also like 25% more salt.

Wow.

They are bordering on a perfect snack.

Yeah.

If you like punchy flavors.

Wow.

Okay.

I just burned through 13 bags of them over the last month.

Fantastic.

They are a true delight and they will ruin my entire higher health, but they are absolutely amazing.

Wow.

Whatever.

Have you text me that?

Because I already forgot the name.

Say it one more time.

Hawkins Cheesies.

I went to Fort Erie.

I crossed the border, I said, I'm going to this grocery store to buy this snack.

And they're like, oh, go ahead.

And then I went back.

I need to do that.

Then I did a 30 minute wait at the Peace Bridge to get back into the Us just to buy those.

Wow.

That's.

That's dedicated.

I wish I'd known.

Brought to you by last summer.

Cheesy.

Exactly.

So many brands get free advertising on this podcast.

Yeah.

Come on.

No one has hit us with the season desist yet, so.

Okay.

I want some money.

Like, I want some money for the bag.

We can.

We can pump this up for you.

Well, enjoy night around the lake.

It seems like a beautiful weekend to be there.

Yeah.

We've gone every year for the past.

This will be our third year now going.

And we just fell in love with it.

And, like, let's just make this an annual thing.

So very cool.

Yeah.

Does she get to bring the camera?

Take pictures?

I don't know.

If you all know, Abby's an amazing.

Photographer, so she doesn't.

She has, like, a.

Because, you know, her hobby became her work.

Yeah, it does.

So she has her hobby camera and her work work camera.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So she brings.

She was like, should we just get, like, two throwaway cameras for the couple days?

Like.

Yeah, let's do it.

Perfect.

So that's how I see that.

Like actual disposables.

Yeah, actual disposables.

I didn't even know those still exist.

They do.

All right.

Yeah.

Photographers love them because they're.

It's like.

It's low.

It's low mental load because it takes away that perfection.

Yeah.

You can't.

You can't make it perfect.

Kind of.

It lets you just take pictures for fun.

Yeah.

Instead of thinking about every setting and all that stuff, which is kind of.

And it has a nostalgic effect to it.

So.

I think Marvin likes him a bunch, too.

Oh, yeah.

I think I've seen him throw a couple on his Instagram every once in a while.

Yeah.

And then there's those new little Kodak ones that just came out.

Those little mini digitals with limited resolution.

Okay.

Limited.

My.

My middle son actually has a little, like, digital that does, like, the Polaroid thing.

Like, prints on its own.

Yeah.

Those are awesome.

Yeah.

He loves it.

And every now and then you see a picture, you're just like, you what?

I couldn't have taken that.

That's amazing.

So I think it's just the eye kind of develops.

Right.

Like, I think people like the idea of film, but without the.

Without the work.

Yeah, well, without.

Yeah.

So without having to develop it or take it somewhere.

Right.

There is a specialness of the creative side of the film work and the dark room stuff.

But if you can just do it with a digital filter, then why Not.

It's for people with patience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that's probably what some people say about pourovers, right?

Oh, yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

Especially when there's something special about it.

But if it's only if, you know, you really love it.

Otherwise, just.

Yeah.

Off the tap for the drink.

I don't know.

Nice coffee transition.

I. I'm.

I'm getting.

But I'm learning from you.

I learned it from you.

I learned it from you.

I learned it for watching you, Chris.

So, Josiah.

Yes.

Who are you?

How'd you get into coffee?

What do you do?

What have you done in coffee, and what are you doing now?

Okay, so I'm Josiah.

As we established, I have been in the coffee world probably since my mom was drinking coffee and I've been in her womb.

And that was, like, my first experience of coffee.

That set me off this way.

But then it was like, you know, church coffee, adding a bunch of French vanilla creamers to it.

Boom.

And, you know, growing up like that.

And then Starbucks upside down, caramel macchiatos.

And then I got to college.

Brilliant.

And it was still kind of that.

And then we had what we called syrup coffee at college.

And so.

But then I started working at bakery, and they wanted me to make the coffee.

And that was my first, like.

What was the bakery called?

Sweet Arts Bakery.

It was in Avon, New York.

Sweet Arts Bakery in Avon, New York.

Yep.

And that was my first, like, experience with a espresso kind of thing.

Okay.

Espresso kind of just.

Just really hedging.

I love that.

What is the kind of thing?

Like, it was.

Was it an actual espresso?

Espresso syrup, maybe?

No, there wasn't an espresso machine.

Okay.

Making a latte, I guess, with what they had.

And I was like, okay, this is fine.

It's a job that, for me, it was just a job.

Yeah, definitely.

Trying to make, you know, money.

And then I went to New York City and I went to.

We were in Queens, and we.

Astoria.

Astoria, Queens.

And there was this shop, this coffee shop.

It's kind of like AM fm.

It was like, bar at night, even though we're not open at night right now, but.

And coffee in the morning.

But we went like, middle of the day, and they had Chemex there.

Never heard of this.

Right.

All right.

And they were serving counterculture coffee.

Okay.

And it was East Timor coffee.

Yeah, there you go.

I remember those.

And the note was like, apple and like.

Like, like apple crisp.

Yeah.

Or whatever.

And my friend's like, oh, you gotta try A pour over.

I'm like, what's a pour over?

And.

And I'm like, I don't like my coffee black.

And then from that day on, I liked my coffee.

So, like, how old were you?

About what year was this?

Like, this is.

I would have been.

I would have been 20.

Okay.

So 13 years ago.

Okay.

And from that point on, I literally bought a Chemex that day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I bought like a five pound bag of the counterculture from them.

The five pound bag.

Yeah.

And that place isn't even open anymore.

I've tried to visit it again, but.

And I was desperate to find a job where I'm like, I want to get into this because I was just going after it.

By the way, that five pound bag says a lot about you as a person.

All in or nothing.

Right.

Because there's a certain person, like, I'm.

Gonna buy the smallest bag I can get.

You're like, nope, I've learned.

This is my thing.

I'm going to.

Yeah.

Whether or not is forever.

I mean, this.

This worked out.

Yeah.

But is that.

Is that like a common trait for you where you'll go all in on me right away?

Absolutely.

And especially one where I'm like, I know this is not a phase.

Yeah.

Like, this is like, I'm like, the fact that I was so mind blown by.

It was like, you know, the kind of thing where people first drink their first pour over, like.

Oh, you didn't add any syrups to this.

Yeah, right.

Actually has like a sweetness to order flavored coffee.

Yeah, exactly.

And I've gotten.

That doesn't.

Oh, we've got.

Yep.

It's crazy.

I applied to.

I came to think of how old I was right now.

What year are we in?

26.

26.

Ish.

Yeah.

And yeah, so, yeah, that's about it.

Yeah.

Around 20.

Around 22 years old.

So I guess it was a few years after that I applied to work at poor coffee parlor.

Sure.

And I got ghosted.

Crazy.

They asked me.

Well, at that point, they asked me, like, what do you typically drink when you go to a coffee shop?

And at that point I was like, oh, I usually just grab a coffee, cold brew.

And so we got chatting and stuff.

And then I. I didn't hear anything.

I went to that place like every day.

I was the squeaky wheel.

I was like, I want a job here.

Like, this is like exactly what Adam Solomon did at Joe Bean.

Like.

So our first con.

Brief conversation was with Adam Solomon.

That's like, this is the.

The way, like, if you love your coffee shop, you want to work there.

Yeah.

Show up.

Yeah, well, showing up generally.

Right.

I mean, we talked about this behind the glass a lot.

People are desperate to be part of a community.

Yeah.

And part of it's showing up, and part of it is when something's happening, events happening, you show up and you help.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you don't just.

You just say, hey, what can I do to help today?

Yeah.

Not at the business.

Because that's like, obviously you're doing that too.

Right.

Like an event's happening.

You just show up and, hey, how can I help today?

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

And you're present.

Oh, yeah.

And I was hitting them up like crazy.

Love it.

Yep.

Did you know Shauna then?

Yeah.

Yep.

Oh, yeah.

So I met Shauna at Whole Lotte Love, and it wasn't until we were working together for, like, I don't know, a couple months that she mentioned that I was like, you were totally my barista, like, all the time when I went in there, I was like, you made me so many waffles.

Yeah, she.

She taught me the kitchen.

Yeah.

She was like the kitchen girl when I was there.

Was your interview with Rizzo?

No.

Okay.

No, he.

Was he out by then?

He was out by then.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, my interview was with Leah.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah, yeah.

She was shortly out after.

Yeah.

After that, and then maybe like a year.

But we.

So they.

Yeah, I kept emailing Leah over and over and over again, and she finally got back.

She goes, hey, okay, come in.

Basically, then they hired me.

Right.

So I don't fully remember the date, but it was a while where I was just, like, emailing because I really wanted.

I'm like, this is the place that does it.

That's the place I knew of that did it.

Like, I didn't really know Joe Bean then.

Yeah.

We went to Javas a lot in college, and that was kind of my.

When I was more like trying to figure out coffee.

I didn't know Rochester well, and I, you know, I was just trying to find it, and I knew people who new poor and went there, so I was so into it, I got the poor logo tattooed on me too.

And then like, that.

Did you also get sued by the place?

No, but, like, within a month after I got the tattoo, we had to change the name, which is like, now it's just a vintage tattoo.

Yeah.

It might cost money.

Like, you're happy.

Exactly.

Now your tattoo is.

Yeah.

It's worth Something on ebay.

Right.

This might be the best barista story we've heard here.

So I love that you're like, I do things.

I know they're not a phase.

And I almost brought up your tattoos and it's like, it's not a phase.

We're still poor.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We're still pouring hard.

And so actually my first job at Poor was I went to the Summerton location.

They taught me the kitchen.

Then the next day, I was right at Elton, scraping, trying to scrape paint off a brick.

Like.

Like this was a.

You know, this wasn't even supposed to be Glenn Edith's shop.

It was supposed to be a bakery where they served Glenn Edith.

And they were going to be baristas going there.

Yep.

And John Ebel's like, hey, you, can you do this for me?

And so my first, like three weeks at Glen Edith was kind of training kitchen and then was Poor then.

And then going to Elton street to put acid up on these walls and scrape paint off of it.

Oh, God.

And it was so miserable.

I got burnt from acid.

I was also working at the movie theater at the same time.

So I had these two part time jobs.

So I'd go from there to go work at the movie theater.

And that day was terrible because my arm was like burnt.

And I told John Evel, I'm like, hey, I will do this, but this is like, you need professionals doing this.

I was going to say, where's Osha in all of this?

It was crazy.

And the profession, he ended up hiring professionals to scrape all the brick.

I go, I went in there, like, doing, you know, when the boutinery was there.

I'm like, I did that.

You have exposed bricks.

You have no idea what this arm went through.

But the professional said, wow.

Honestly, we probably would have declined this if it wasn't done already.

This far.

Wow.

Yeah.

All right.

So.

Because bricks porous and trying to get.

I can't.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was layers of paint.

But so I was working at Pete's and I was really good at finishing my, you know, my tasks.

Right.

Yeah.

So we're closing one night and I'm like, I am going to be out of here.

Right at door lock, right?

Yeah.

So I finished all my stuff early.

We got about 15 minutes before door lock.

And the manager at the time, man, I could have punched this guy in the face.

He looked at me and he goes, scrub the wall.

Yeah.

I'm like, what do you mean, scrub the wall?

Miyagiing you, like, literally, he was like the wall behind the batch breweries is dirty and like, yeah, but it's like,.

But it's behind the batch.

Behind the batch brewers.

Who cares?

And.

And at this point, I was shadowing there.

So I was 20 something, teaching full time and doing this for fun.

And I just remember being like, no,.

Isn't this why you close for a deep clean?

Like, not.

Not something you just say in my job description.

Yeah, like so.

And.

And yeah, so extremely not in your job description.

But then Elton opens.

And Elton opens.

I still.

So Ryan Baker, who.

Oh, yeah, man.

He was kind of running the show there.

Shout out to Mirakey Coffee, wherever he is.

Now he's in Kalamazoo.

That's it.

Kalamazoo.

I saw.

I restarted again.

Yeah, yeah, he started again in a little like shop and stuff.

So we still connect.

Unfortunately.

He.

He hit me up on Facebook messenger wanting to be on our podcasts to get the word out about his.

Yeah, restart.

And yeah, I just don't go on Facebook messenger.

But like once a year.

It's hard and it's hard.

Saw that.

And I tried to hit him back and nothing.

Ryan.

Ryan Baker.

I'm coming to Grand Rapids.

There you go.

Maybe I will swing down this summer.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe Aaron can soften.

Soften the blow of not checking Facebook ever.

Well, I saw him since and he didn't bring it up.

And I was like, well, so the order of events is he messaged me.

I didn't see it.

I saw him.

I saw the message.

So he could have like, hey, did.

You see my message?

What the hell's wrong with you?

And he didn't.

So thanks, Ryan.

But at the same time, it's me.

You kind of have to do that.

That's awesome.

But yeah, it's.

I, you know, I wasn't allowed to be a barista and I was in the kitchen if, if you.

Anybody remembers who is in the Rochester area or outside, who visited poor Glen.

Edith.

The kitchen was miserable.

It was a closet.

And I was in there every single time.

At Somerton.

At Summerton.

Yeah, that was.

Yeah.

And I didn't work at Elton at all until after the bakery left.

I was just in the kitchen and I was desperate to be on bar.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I learned pour overs.

One way to do a pour over.

And it was changed many times over the years in different ways.

Yeah.

A lot of different hands over the years.

Yeah.

Crazy.

And somebody had quit and I don't remember who or it's like, it's weird to say they quit.

It's like somebody moved on to something else.

Right.

It might have been Shauna, I don't know.

I don't remember the timeline fully, but I was the only one available.

I was like, cool, I'll quit my theater job.

Put me on.

And we were open till 10pm and there were sometimes I did like 12 hour shifts and that, you know, I was like, I want to be in this.

And Vicky Wong.

Shout out to Vicky Wong and John Kane.

So much love for Vicky and John.

Yeah.

They taught me so much about making espresso drink.

Like amazing.

To the point where Vicky took me on an espresso tour around Rochester.

Yeah.

And.

And went to different places.

Went to Fuego on the transfer.

So I went to Javas, went to Starbucks, went to like just to try different kinds of espresso so I could get this understanding of it because I still, you know, was in the learning process of.

Of it all.

Developing your palate.

Exactly.

And it was just amazing to somebody like took the time to do that.

Yeah.

That's an incredible thing.

Yeah.

Someone to do.

So.

Yeah.

So I don't know.

Vicki.

I haven't even heard that name come up.

No.

Yeah.

Vicki left Rochester before.

I know it was before fifth frame was on before 17 because.

So.

Yeah.

Right around 16.

17.

And I've seen her once since at fifth frame and really?

Yeah, that was in.

It must have been in 18.

So.

Yeah, maybe she left in 17.

But she was legend and she was awesome.

She went on to work at Toby's estate.

Oh, wow.

In.

In Brooklyn.

Yeah.

Um.

And she is extraordinary.

Like just extremely talented.

Yeah.

Very personable.

Like fun, fun, fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just will kind of.

I don't know how to say it.

She says super random stuff.

Yeah.

But it's not at all.

It's not.

I don't know, it just is such commitment to the bit sometimes.

I don't know.

I always love being around Vicky.

I'll tell one Vicky story.

So I spent a summer when Fifth Rain was opening, kind of consulting for Glenn, Edith consulting for Fuego.

And we did Clothesline together, Vicki and I, in the trailer in the big.

The Silver Bullet.

Yeah, yeah.

And Stream.

The Jet Stream.

Yeah.

And we like were cooped up in there and we had to like.

I remember that we had to get out.

Like we.

So we get outside for like five minutes and I was a little.

I don't know what I was doing at this point in my life, but I was like, I'm going to do some push ups and Vicky's like, push up contest yeah, that sounds right.

Yeah.

And feel like I remember this.

Were you.

You were not there.

You were there with us.

So we had.

Oh my God, I feel so bad.

Jet stream and the clothesline.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was right out front.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, that would be so.

And we were in the jet stream and like we were just cooped up and we had a push up contest at Clothesline, me and Vicky.

That's awesome.

So weird.

I mean, it's kind of like running a 5k right.

Right before you come to pick up your.

But that feels normal.

Yeah.

Well, what we know is that, you know, clothesline is a, a place for toxic masculinity.

So I appreciate you bringing that to the table.

Hang on.

That's awesome.

Toxic masculinity at Clothesline.

Tell me.

I mean, he had to prove to the woman that he was more.

I just needed some physical activity.

He was, he was trying to perform dominance.

Listen, I. Amongst all the, all the weak artists at the.

I was trying to not go crazy.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Rage punch.

Yeah.

I didn't want to punch a wall,.

So I did push ups instead.

Yeah.

But the contest was Vicki's idea, which is like, she's just kind of has that improv mind.

Like very.

Yes.

And like.

Yes.

Push ups and contest.

Yeah.

So what do you remember from this espresso tour that you went on?

Because you hit, like, was this over a day or was this a day?

We just hopped in Vicki's car.

And that was the cool thing about the crew back then.

Everybody was super close.

Like, it was, it was, it was really interesting.

Like, and I haven't fully experienced that within any kind of workplace where it's like, hey, it's 10 o', clock, everybody.

Let's just, you know, go out and grab a drink.

Or after, you know, an afternoon shift, we're all going to go get Menake down at Cedar and on a Monday, you know, like the best.

It was like, that's how it was.

And there was this family dynamic.

And with, with Vicki, you know, she was like, hey, we're gonna do this after your shift on Thursday.

We're gonna hit up all these spots.

Go.

It was.

We went to the old, old Fuego off of Liberty Pool.

Liberty Pool.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

And I love that.

Like, that was a great.

They had the, the Arduino.

Yeah, Arduino.

And they had a machine.

Fuego Beach.

Yes.

And that was cool experience.

Just having know that was the first time I met Tony.

That overall was a cool experience.

I can Talk about that later.

But the.

I don't know, the.

Just the dedication that she had, I think.

I think what she saw in me was this just passion to want to learn.

And she was like, okay, we're going to do this.

Yeah.

And it's right now in Coffee World.

I feel like a lot of people are just trying to get a job as a barista.

I don't know if social media has affected some of that.

Whereas, like, hey, this looks cool job, because I want to do pretty art on a cup, you know, and.

Right.

Yeah.

Versus somebody who's like, I want to learn the craft.

I want to learn coffee and stuff.

And I know it's out there still, but there's definitely loss.

Passion for it in a lot of ways.

Unless you're in our generation, we can.

Let's come back to that.

Okay.

So how long were you at Glen Edith?

On and off.

I was at Glen Edith for my last day of Glenn Edith was the last day.

It was Glenn Edith.

Got it.

Okay.

So that was fairly recently.

That was 20.

23.

3.

Yeah.

And so I had gone back to it for the summer.

They asked if I would pick up shifts and stuff, and so I did.

And John Swan, who assumed the position of ownership there, he really wanted to, you know, help, you know, help me help him help, you know, vice versa.

And within the coffee stuff.

And a different opportunity opened up, which was more in my lane with New City Cafe.

Right.

And so I was still going to work weekends at Glen Edith, slash now Pearsons, and then New City.

But I saw the need more at New City and more passion to help, you know, youth learn a trade.

And I really admired that.

So can you talk a bit about New City, where it's located?

Yeah.

And what the whole.

What the whole story of it is, because it's one of the most fascinating places I think, in Rochester, not that far from where we're recording now because it's over on Parcells.

Yeah.

Off of Culver, which, you know, I'd say completely unjustifiably so.

Like, people don't think of as an area where they'd expect specialty coffee.

Right, Right.

Yeah.

So they're a nonprofit that is in the heart of the Beechwood neighborhood, which is a pretty rough neighborhood in Rochester.

And that's kind of their.

Why they're there.

They want to help create affordable housing for people, and they want to help raise up students and youth who may not have the opportunities to get a job and help train job stuff and then have a be in part of A mentorship program as well, where they help mentor them with job applications, how to write those out, and just life skills in general and youth and young adults.

It's a year program usually, but a lot of times they stay longer than that.

You mean working at the cafe?

Working at the cafe, yep.

And then so they, they get hired on to work at the cafe.

But part of that is they get set up with a mentor and they have to have these weekly meetings with their mentor and basically, you know, talk through life and, you know, what do.

We need to do?

Like, you know, I know one girl in particular, she was training to get her license and she was, you know, a young adult and she, she wanted to get her driver's license, but nobody ever taught her.

So that was a, you know, a skill they helped train her in and stuff.

So it's just, it's like all aspects of that and, and they hire within the neighborhood.

So very cool, very cool program.

But the thing is they really wanted it to not just be like, here's just your, you know, mom and pop shot.

They really wanted to care about the specialty coffee side of things too and train that as well, which is what I admired about it.

And not anything against, no shade to any other kind of coffee shop, but it's just that that was, I know Nick Trombley's like, like mentality and that, like he loves coffee and he, like we do and he wanted to bring that in too.

When you're a non profit with another mission, it is easy to lose focus on.

Right.

On like why the core products might matter.

Yeah.

And why the quality of it might, might matter.

And, and, and what, you know, you can accomplish by bringing in an audience that's not necessarily focused on your mission.

You know, so it is, it is cool to see when someone can kind of have that broader, like.

Yeah, we need all these elements in place.

Absolutely.

And, and they cater to that community too.

So they, they'll do.

So they have French vanilla creamer.

Right.

Right.

People love loading their coffee with French vanilla creamer and trying to get people, you know, to enjoy that like is.

Without the creamer was, was a task that was very difficult.

I feel like I brought some knowledge into coffee, into the community and into the shop itself.

But his whole thing was, which was hard for me to grasp at the time, but I understand it now.

It's like, we'll never get rid of the French vanilla creamer because we want to serve people.

Yeah.

And this is what they're at.

And this is where they're at.

Yeah.

And I was like, that's great.

Everybody starts somewhere.

You know, I gotta.

That was my breaking of my snobbiness, you know, there for sure.

Well, I like a saying I've used before that I think you just illustrated perfectly is the difference between a snob and a professional is empathy.

Yeah.

Like once you kind of take on that empathetic stance of like, I understand where you are and where you're starting and where you're at with, you know, what you like.

Yeah.

Then you can kind of begin to treat the thing professionally.

Yeah.

Because where I'm at and what I want can kind of be one sort of thing.

But it doesn't have to be the only thing, you know, because.

Because the real craft of it is how do I bring you into the thing, how do I delight you, how do I make coffee delightful.

That's.

Yeah.

Like what we've been talking about.

Not how do I clone myself in all my customers.

Right.

Exactly.

And that's.

It is that I think it's something that, like, people who stay in coffee go through.

Yeah.

And I think one of the differences is a lot of people never cross that bridge and then they never.

And then they don't stay after it.

Right.

I think it's that evolution too.

It's evolving from the place where you know enough, then you know more than you know more.

And then you see perspective.

Yeah.

Because you're also growing up during that process.

Yeah.

Because you think you're a full fledged adult at 25.

Oh.

Do you ever.

And then you realize all the things you don't know about perspective.

Yeah.

And empathy and all those things that, you know, don't come naturally as a young.

As a younger man.

Yeah.

Right.

As a younger person.

And that's like.

That is.

It's just a great sign of maturing and seeing the world as a.

As a bigger picture.

Right, right.

That's one of my favorite things to say is like, I'll never get to the point where I have full knowledge of something because especially with coffee.

Coffee is like always changing.

There's always experiments, there's always something weather, you know, like there's so much going on, so much going on with coffee and there's so much to learn.

And you know, when you think you got it, you learn something new.

Yep.

Or they change something.

Yeah.

Say, wait a second.

The old switcheroo.

Yeah.

2023-24.

Right.

And that's when I came on at AM FM.

Right.

Around November.

I can Provide some context here.

So AM FM would have opened that, that year, that August.

Yeah.

And you came, you were in by November.

Yeah.

Officially opened in August.

We were kind of open before that.

I was running a PORIA and AM FM and like no, that was just like it just wasn't working for me.

Like I couldn't do the hours it needed.

I couldn't give it the attention it needed.

One or the other would suffer.

As one got better, the other would suffer.

So.

And as kind of the kitchen came on and they needed someone there more consistently, I was like, I'm out, I'm done.

Yeah.

And there was definitely no one else I could think of in the industry in Rochester that I wanted more than you.

Yeah.

I was like, Eric, I knew you knew Eric.

And I was like, Eric, you got to go after Josiah.

Like Josiah's the guy.

He's the key is the guy we want here.

Just personable, community oriented and super knowledgeable and can absolutely grow into the position.

So have my full vote of confidence as someone who like I don't really want to be in the cafe space.

But even, even just as you've been at AM fm, I've kind of reentered that space.

Because you're easy to work with, you're a good partner.

Like you're.

It's.

We have really easy dialogue.

We can, you know, throw back a lot of knowledge but at the same time you're really focused on how do we make this a community space, how do we make this not just make money but a place like people want to be.

Right.

And that's just, I mean so for my part, like super happy.

AM FM's in your hands, the street location is in your hands.

But tell us more from your perspective, how it came about.

I think it was around June.

Eric had Facebook messaged me as people do.

Luckily, Eric loves Facebook.

The new LinkedIn Eric it might be.

And he asked if I'd be.

He said he.

His message was basically this, I'd hate to take you away.

Like I'm not trying to take you away from New City.

Right.

And but, but if you're interested.

I basically told him now at the time.

Then New City around it was October, decided to let me go.

It's a nonprofit, you know, again, like they're doing amazing things.

There's nothing against them but just financially, like you got to make decisions.

And I know that that was a hard decision.

And you know, I've been in non profit world for a long time and I'm so cool with those Guys, I've gone there a couple times, and since.

And there's like, no.

No problem.

But they had to let me go, right.

To help the community more, which is, like.

It made sense.

And then I called up Eric.

I'm like, yo, is that.

You know, are you still interested in me?

And I came in, we talked, and it just.

I think it was like.

Wade just basically was like, hey, can you work this Monday?

Tuesday?

It was, like, right after the grand opening.

Yeah.

I was like, sure, I'm in.

And it was cool because I was like, yeah, because I got severance.

Yeah, I got severance for like, a month after I left, which was crazy.

That's huge.

And they.

So I was like, yeah, I will come work those shifts, but I don't want to work a lot right now, because I'm gonna savor this time.

And.

And then I was like, all in.

And then the switch off, I think, happened in January.

Right.

Yeah.

Took over that.

Yeah.

Because it just naturally flowed into that.

And.

Yeah.

It's been trying to figure it out since how long now?

So that would have been November 24th.

Yeah.

To, like.

To, like.

Yeah, yeah.

To now.

To now.

18 Months.

Yeah.

19 Months.

Yeah.

Math.

So Math time.

We were closed a month in December, so.

17 Months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But no, and.

And, like, I feel like this week especially, we're really starting to see.

Well, it's not this week.

It was really marathon weekend.

Yeah.

Where I really started to see.

Oh, we're like, part of the community now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And AM FM has kind of established itself, and it's a place that people find.

And.

Yeah, we're going to take a quick break now that we're kind of up to date with your journey, and we'll hit some questions when we.

When we come back.

All right, welcome back.

And we're still talking to Josiah Ball.

Still here.

Still here, still going.

Still going.

Still the same cafe.

And we.

My coffee world.

Caught up on your journey.

When you look at that journey, what.

What do you find, like, uniquely rewarding about coffee as.

As, like, a.

A career path, a job, even a hobby?

Like something that interests you.

What is uniquely rewarding about.

About being a barista?

Uniquely to me, to myself.

Okay.

So I think what I love about coffee in.

In general, being a barista, is I love the morning shift.

Always love the opening shift, as probably a lot of baristas do.

But being able to set people off on their day has always been rewarding to me.

The joy, even just, like, doing a good latte.

I pour the Joy of handing somebody that hot cup, they take their first sip.

Just like that kind of thing is, like you're putting somebody something in someone's hand that they want, but then you're giving them an experience as well that's setting off the rest of their day.

And that's rewarding to me.

I get to pour into people's lives like that.

Oh, yes, I said that.

Nice.

That's fantastic.

What?

And then, like, the other side of that, like, what.

What do you find especially, like, challenging about this kind of career or this kind of job?

Yeah.

It's kind of like I was saying with my wife, like, her hobby became a job.

Yeah.

And there's sides of it, like, you got.

You have to actively try to keep it a hobby, to keep it fun for yourself.

Yeah.

Rather than the job, like, because it can be so, like metal.

So like, my first thing I do when I go into the shop is I make myself a pour over every single day.

Like, and.

Because if I don't do that, and just like, this is why I'm doing it, because I love this.

Yeah.

It becomes that job.

And like, I. I start to be discouraged by coffee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that's not rewarding as that side of it.

I think in the past couple years.

Sorry, Aaron.

I think in the past couple of years, I've really struggled with this point.

And I feel like I. I felt like.

And it's only recently I've had to, like, really wrestle with this.

I didn't love coffee anymore.

It was just.

I was doing.

I was doing it because I was doing it.

Yeah.

And like, I've had to really struggle to create moments where I was like, I love this.

Right.

So you're absolutely.

It.

It wears you out.

It's like something I say is that coffee does not love you back.

And like, loving coffee means kind of your love goes to it and it.

It doesn't necessarily come back to you.

Yeah.

And you, like, hearing you say you've created a discipline out of.

Out of making yourself love.

The thing is it.

That's really important because otherwise you will.

It will become so rote.

Yeah.

And it will just take the life right out of it.

I think it's when.

When people call something having a practice.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right.

There's an intentionality behind still performing.

It's doing the bit.

Yeah, Right.

It's still doing the bit because you're performing hospitality.

Right.

Which is a performance.

Right.

And it takes from you too.

So both you're performing hospitality, but you're also you want to get people excited.

Yeah.

And it's hard to get people excited if you're not excited.

Right.

Which it's work to be positive and be excited about things.

Absolutely.

It's not.

It doesn't come for free.

No, does not.

Aaron, what were you gonna say?

I had a joke that seems way too not joking right now.

But I was gonna ask Josiah if he's capitalizing on those 12 pour overs that.

Oh yeah, capitalizing for sure.

That is an amazing coffee.

And wait till you taste the $15 one I got.

The $12 one.

That's definitely coming in a couple of weeks.

Oh, I gotta come in for that.

That.

Yeah.

That's a pretty affordable price for what we're giving.

Okay.

Yeah.

Your Proud Mary experience.

Right.

Incredibly.

I've been to Proud Mary in Portland and I just went to the one in Austin last two weeks ago and I ordered their pour over $10.

Their.

Their bottom is $10.

Yeah.

Their top is $60.

So we're not charging 60 for anything.

No, not yet.

Until, you know, maybe one.

I'll find it.

Yeah.

But the.

I got it and it was an eight ounce cup.

So I was like, that was the first disappointment I had.

And, and Maybe it was 8 ounces in the one in Portland, but I got it in like a wine glass.

Like it was really nice.

Like that was in Portland.

That was in Portland.

And it's experience.

I, I think sometimes like $10 isn't necessarily an experience amount of money.

Right.

But when you get above that.

Yeah.

You gotta get that experience.

You want an experience.

You want the, you want the nice little wooden board.

You want, you want, you know, a cup to pour it into from a carafe.

You want that, you want that whole experience.

Yeah.

And so actually I model some of what we do at AM FM from what they did in Portland's shop at the Proud Mary.

And the difference here is I got it to go because we were on the move.

Sure.

So they might have ruined that experience a little bit.

So I was like getting in an 8 ounce paper cup was like, this was kind of like.

All right.

It wasn't like the Proud Mary.

I had experience I had in Portland.

Yeah.

And.

But it was 8 ounces for $10.

We're giving away 16 ounces.

Almost 16 ounces.

Yeah.

More like 14 ounces.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I, I think what are they giving away?

Yeah, that's $12.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think one of the, you know, part of the question is so like as you're, you're talking about doing the hospitality and working on being, you know, working on your enthusiasm.

Practice.

When you're thinking about how to serve a customer best, how do you describe hospitality and coffee?

Because, like, you're doing the service of giving them the thing in the morning.

Right.

But when you're thinking about what is.

How do you perform hospitality for somebody in coffee?

Beyond just that, like, how do you think about that?

What are the actions you take?

Like, when you're interacting with people, describing things, how do you engage with a customer to get them excited?

So I typically will ask somebody.

Let's say somebody comes in, they're like, I've never been here before, and what's good here?

What's one of the worst questions that you can ask me?

Like, I. I never know what to say.

I'm like, everything and nothing.

Yeah.

I wouldn't put it out if it was bad.

Right.

Yeah.

So I just jumped to, what do you usually get when you go to a coffee shop?

And they'll either say like, oh, I'll get at Starbucks.

I'll get this and this.

I'm like, okay, well, I can make you this.

And whatever it is they say.

And I try to elevate it to a point where it's like, there's something nicer about this, why we do it this way.

And even with pour overs, it's like, why $12 pour over?

And I literally will say to somebody, like, okay, I'm gonna buy this.

I'm like, okay, if you don't like it, I will pay for it if you don't like it.

And typically, I've never had to pay for it.

So either people don't like it and they just feel bad, or they actually truly enjoy it.

And I would like to think the latter of it, But I really want them to feel comfortable, even if they're not even knowledgeable of coffee.

I think that's the big job in specialty coffee, is to make people feel comfortable.

Yeah.

Because as we've talked about a lot, like, we were so deep into this.

Yeah.

In our own different ways.

Yeah.