Brandtographer Melissa Henry joins me today for a discussion about dragging around the stories we tell ourselves and finding the self-awareness and courage to change them. We dive into not feeling enough and the difference between the stress you feel when you’re doing something you love vs the stress associated with being in situations where you’re not empowered.  

Melissa’s years of being in a career that didn’t particularly suit her can be traced back to her mid-teen years, when she saw her parents go through bankruptcy. That situation created a foundational belief around money that drove her initial career choice. And she admits, it still affects her today. 

She spent years talking herself out of doing what she really wanted to do in life. Thinking “I just need to…” do x, y or z “before I can do that.” A therapist helped her work through many of her fruitless thought patterns. But it took her another 16 years of questioning her intelligence… before an incident with the hamburglar and an overwhelming desire to punch her client in the face… pushed her to finally make the jump.    

Today Melissa is living exactly the right life for her right now.  

I’m still in disbelief about the whole who stole the hamburger story. That is crazy. If you work in an environment like that, seriously, you need to get out now.  

Find out more about Melissa

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-henry-731b892/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissademplephotography/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melissademplephotography

Building a brand and a successful business shouldn’t be boring or feel inauthentic. Grab Melissa's "Boost Your Brand" guide (https://www.subscribepage.com/boostyourbrand) to help you help you stand out online, gain confidence, show up as an “approachable” expert and more deeply connect with your audience so you can build the business of your dreams faster and easier!

Melissa's hype song is Me Too by Megan Trainer https://youtu.be/qDRORgoZxZU

Come join us in the Fine is a 4-Letter Word Facebook group.

This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. When you’re asking yourself “what’s next for me? Who am I now, in this next season of life? And where do I even start figuring out my purpose?” the F*ck Being Fine Experience is here for you. Go to https://zenrabbit.com/ to learn more or to schedule a complimentary call.

Melissa Henry: Hi, thanks.

Lori Saitz: Let's start with the question of what were the beliefs that were instilled in you when you were a child? That may have led to your experience of fine.

And what happened there was that, you know, I was like the sixth child out of. Out of six kids. Um, and they did not want me to, no, they didn't want me to learn the hard parts about life. There's always like, keep it from the baby, stuff like that. But I found out about the bankruptcy when that happened. Oh gosh.

I was like, mid-teens I believe when that happened. And so I, I think that really affected me. I didn't at the time. Completely understand it, but I knew enough to know it was not good. And you were not supposed to talk about it by the way. They did not talk about, not only did they not talk about stuff with me, but they didn't talk about stuff, you know, outside of the family, like the, all of the family things were to remain within the family, you do not discuss it.

Right. So I got that feeling that you don't talk about money. You don't talk about lack of it or mistakes you've made with it, or any of that stuff that. Was a foundational thing for me, for my entire life. I still struggle with money issues to today, you know, because of that, that it's shameful to talk about it or that it's, it's just not something that you would talk about, not the shame of it necessarily, but like the feelings of like, oh, you know, scarcity around it or, you know, controlling it and.

All of that stuff. Cause I, I, because they didn't talk about it with me. And they didn't like sit down and explain what we were going through and that everything was going to be okay. They didn't do any of that. It was very much like an ignoring thing. I started drawing my own conclusions about it. And then that made me feel like, well, gosh, this is a horrible thing.

And I never want that to happen to me. And so I should always be careful and I should, you know, always try and make lots of money because you don't want to be without any money and you know, these kinds of things. And it's, it's just, uh, it's just, yeah. I mean, I, it's just funny cause I, I did, I spent, I think that was one of those foundational things that really shaped what I did for my entire life up till this point.

So I don't think they expected me to come along when I did, they did treat me differently than the rest. And they, I think gave me more, they probably had more money there for awhile, you know, up until my mid teens or whatever, um, so that they could do that. So I think I experienced a different childhood than the rest of them did.

So it wasn't. It wasn't that there was always that feeling of there's not enough. I literally think that pivotal moment was what put that in my head because I never thought about it prior to that. I always was like, I was spoiled necessarily, but like I never like wanted for anything, you know? Like I think about it now.

I mean, I, I went to, um, I went to private schools. For like, you know, from like eighth grade and up. And that was my choice, not theirs. Cause I just didn't like, I didn't like the school I was going to and my friend was going to this other one. Can I go to the school with my friend? Yeah. And they were like, yeah.

And I was, and so I think my, the rest of my life Emily was like, wow, she gets everything she wants, you know? So. Um, I didn't know that I was treated differently, but I think now I do, of course in adulthood having talked to my, my siblings about it, but so, no, I don't think it's that. I just think that pivotal moment was, uh, it was a doozy.

Really? Yeah.

Like I have a lot of things going into college that I thought it could do. And it's interesting. So a couple things happen. One. This isn't really related to the bankruptcy issue or, or that moment. But I do think as a kid or as a young adult, I didn't have a lot of confidence in certain things or certain areas.

And I thought to myself, I'm not a good writer. That was the story I told myself. Right. So when I got into psychology, even though it was really super interesting to me, I was like, well, I can't go down that road because in order to be successful, then I'm going to have to write a lot. I'll have to like publish in journals.

I'll have to do all of that stuff. And like, no, I. Can't do that. And so then I, so I changed my major and at that point I got it.

And then I went into marketing and again, I told myself, I don't think I'm good enough to come up with those kinds of ideas. Like I don't, I, you know, I just sort of kept talking myself out of that. And the next thing I knew, I had a friend who was in a, I think I met her in a business fraternity at that point.

Um, and so I, I was talking to her and she said, well, I'm an accountant. And she said, well, you know, why don't you try that out? And I was like, oh, okay, well, I'm pretty good at numbers. I can do that. And that's where I stayed because there was no writing. I didn't have to challenge myself and guess what, everyone needs a bean counter.

So it sort of was like, ding, ding, ding in the deep, dark recesses of my mind. I'm certain that that's where, you know, that happened. It was like, oh, okay, well, I can't do that.

Lori Saitz: Now you have control of the money.

Melissa Henry: Yes. Control.

Lori Saitz: Well, right. I mean, but based on that experience of your parents' bankruptcy, where they you've kind of probably felt like they don't have control or I don't have, there is no controlling money.

Getting into accounting. It was like, oh, here's how I can control the money.

Melissa Henry: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and the funny thing was, is like, I was never like a stellar student in accounting either. Like I was okay. I mean, I was like a B average, you know, but like, because I worked, I worked at it, but like, I, I wasn't the one that was going, going to all these big, big at the time it was big six accounting firms probably dating myself when I say that.

But so I was interviewing for them, but I was not good enough for that. And you know, it was fine. I ended up finding a job because Hey, like I said, everyone needs a bean counter, so there's always work to be found, you know? And so I think. What's always kind of been funny is that I decided, okay, well, I'm the creative stuff that I do, let's just do that on the side. That'll be enough. You know? So I, I definitely spent, you know, weekends or whatever, photographing, like going and getting out there. And, you know, I traveled a lot, so I did a lot of travel photography and things like that, but it was always, it was always just a side thing.

Lori Saitz: Okay, so you didn't completely bury it. Like some of us.

Melissa Henry: No I didn’t bury it. I didn't think there was a need for that. But like I, like, I mean, I swear to God the whole time. I'm thinking there's no way you make an, make a living, being a photographer.

Not unless you are really good. Like if you're like the top level, you're like, I don't even remember at the time who was like some of those photographers you think of, but you'd have to be like fashion photography, or you'd have to be like the number one travel photographer to ever make any money. Or you'd have to have produced already a whole slew of like stock photography to be good, you know, to make money at that.

So I just, all those stories, I kept telling myself, like, you can't do that. And, and at that time, the photography industry was so largely male. There were only like a few that would stay, it would stand out like Annie Liebowitz who really like came out of that. And, um, why am I forgetting her name?

Um, the one that does the flowers, the babies with the flowers and yeah. Oh yeah. Anne Geddes. yeah, so yeah, I mean, so for those people, I was like, okay, well, but that's cause they're like unique there's, you know,

Lori Saitz: They’re more special.

Melissa Henry: Yeah, for sure. So how these stories we tell ourselves, I swear.

Lori Saitz: It's amazing how the stories that we tell ourselves and how long we believe them for how long, for how many years that we still drag these stories around.

And, you know, I mean, some people can hold on to them for their entire lives.

Melissa Henry: Yeah. You know, I think the thing is that you kind of have to have some self-awareness. You have to make yourself, look at yourself. That's the only way to really get beyond that. Because if you are going to sit there and if you're going to want things to be different, the absolutely the only way to do that is to look at what you've been doing and see what needs to change.

But you have to be self-aware to do that. I think that's the reason why a lot of people don't it's. Either. They don't have, like, they don't ever think that it's possible to change and there's literally nothing they can do, or they don't want to look at themselves. Cause that's too scary.

Lori Saitz: It is scary. And, and it could be painful or embarrassing or just difficult to look at.

Well, okay. This is how, where I am. These are the, I don't want to say poor choices, but it's the choices that I've made that have gotten me here. And, you know, go back to that. I think it was Oprah who said that when you know, better, you do better. So there's no reason to beat yourself up for past choices because you did what you thought was the best thing at the time.

But when you have to start looking back at those choices that you did make, that brought you to, to where you are today, Mm. Sometimes that doesn't feel good. A lot of times that doesn't feel good. And at the same time, like you're saying the only way you can get to a better place moving forward is to do that.

Melissa Henry: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's like as a sidebar to that whole idea, the other thing that can be scary and this, and this is kind of. What happens sometimes when you do that sort of inward looking and you, you know, for me, like sort of my, I had my midlife crisis early, I think. And like, in my thirties I kind of, I needed to get therapy cause I was like, totally just.

You know, I, I, it's kind of funny. I don't know if this is really like along the topic, but what had happened at the time was I had this long-term boyfriend and on Valentine's day, I lost my job at this place I was working, it was a fortune 500 company I was working for. They had to, and it was, it was after 9/11.

And so they were like getting rid of a whole bunch of people. So I was one of that group of people that got laid off

Lori Saitz: Valentine's day massacre.

Melissa Henry: Yeah, I know I'm like the crappiest day for anybody, I guess not the crappiest day would be like, you know, right before Christmas or, you know, or something like that.

Right. But anyway, but so let go, come home thinking of, well, I'm at least going to have a nice dinner with my boyfriend. And then we end up getting into this long discussion. We ended up breaking up. I was like, oh, geez. It's like the worst and I've never liked Valentine's day to begin with. And now I had a real reason why.

Right. So after that I was like, I literally, every day would cry for some reason or another. And then I was like, all right, something's got to give. Right. So that's when I found a therapist and I went to therapy for like a good year or so. And just realized all the patterns I was doing and, you know, reasons for those patterns and, you know, tools I could use to, to like stop myself when I was thinking a certain way and all this stuff.

And, you know, the hardest part about it was that I ended up having to rethink other relationships. I was in just with friends even, and having to kind of like get rid of them. And that's what I mean, when you say, when you really are in tune with making sure that you are going in a direction that's good for you in your life, sometimes that means letting other people go.

And I think that's so, so hard. It was hard for me. So I don't, I don't ever like take that lightly, but I think that could be a large reason why people wouldn't go down yeah. That path.

Lori Saitz: Right. Because you do have to make sacrifices. And when I use the word sacrifice, it's kind of exactly what you're saying, like what is it that you are willing to give up, to reach that higher level? And maybe it's giving up watching so much TV or it's giving up the friends who are engaging in habits that don't serve you, whatever it is. And it could be really difficult, especially when it's friends and family that you maybe need to spend a little less time with because they don't want you to change. It reflects on them and then it makes them uncomfortable.

And that's such a good point as to why it's so important to get around people who do support, where you're going and what you're doing. And oftentimes it's not a friend, you know, that's why you may need a counselor or a therapist or a coach, depending on what you're doing.

Melissa Henry: Exactly to help you. I'm the big, I'm a big believer in that now. I mean, I think that was actually one of those moments where I was like, you know, when I went to therapy, I was like, you know, having those feelings again about what would my family think? And man, they would be like, don't tell anybody. And all of a sudden here I am telling you all, I'm like, I don't care.

Cause it's like, so I feel like everyone should go through therapy at some point in their lives.

Lori Saitz: Yeah. Yeah. There's certainly no shame in it. If you need the help, go get it.

Melissa Henry: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: So, okay. So. So you were being a CPA, doing your thing until getting laid off from that job. Was that your turning point?

Melissa Henry: No, not at all. I wasn't even like, you know, here's, what's funny about the whole thing. Like I think back on the whole career of being a CPA and, you know, being in that, that field, there was a couple of things. One. Every time I'd get into a job at first, I liked it. It was challenging. I was learning something new because I've been in a fair amount.

Fair. I say a fair amount, but like, let's say a little more than a handful of jobs. Over that timeframe. Right. And I liked learning. I liked like the challenge of something new, the new environment, the new people, the new process, like a new type of company. I was never in the same kind of company. Uh, you know, I would always go to something different.

So that was really fun. But what I realized after a time was I didn't like the, after I got to know what they were doing, I didn't like the routine of it. Like, I was just like, okay, I've learned it. I don't need to do this anymore. You know, so that, you know, I, I, it was funny cause there for awhile, I was like almost every four years I would be like, maybe I just need to go somewhere else.

And then the funny thing too was that I also realized something really interesting. This again is a look back right? That the people around, I was always surrounded by these really smart people. And I can, I can name, like, I can even name them right now in my mind, you know, like they're just were, they were so smart and they were so into it, like what they were doing at the, at this, you know, company and I was always jealous of that because I was like, I'm not that smart. And that the truth is, yeah, I'm a smart person. My talents do not, but I don't want to be the smart that they are. They are the smart, when it comes to accounting rules and regulations. And, you know, in the case of when I was working for AIS, um, you know, the electrical distribution and generation, and they knew all this stuff.

And I was like, I'm just not interested in that, but I always took that to be, I'm just not smart enough. And, um, now I know looking back that that's not the case, I just wasn't that wasn't the place I was supposed to be in the first place, you know, so,

Lori Saitz: right, right. Cause it wasn't your area, You weren't interested because that wasn't your, really, your area of interest. That wasn't where you could excel.

Melissa Henry: Exactly. So I just had, that's kind of one of those things where I just kept thinking, well, if I just go to a different place, maybe it'll work. And I do my job

Lori Saitz: That term. If I just…

Melissa Henry: Don't you hate that? Yes, I think at one point I, I realized that, and I'm not sure exactly where it happened, but I do remember I was.

I was at this one company, it was a television production and post production company. And, you know, stuff was happening that I wasn't appreciative of just the way the management was. And what ended up happening was I started to look for other jobs. I still really loved photography and I thought, well, okay, I clearly don't want to work here anymore.

And, you know, maybe, uh, maybe I'll go to photography school. So, and then maybe like, maybe I can, you know, once I like learn a lot more about it, maybe then I can, you know, develop a business around it. So I did, and I went and got a certificate in professional photography and I did find another job. And, um, but the job was different.

It was still, I was still doing accounting, but now I was in a, sort of a consultative space rather than working on. Directly, like, rather than like producing, uh, you know, financial statements or things like that for a company I was in consultative, you know, space where I wasn't responsible for that level or, you know, I was just helping a client like, let me just get in here and there and help you out, you know, and I was like, that's fine. And that changed too. That was, that was actually S um, satisfying that need to not have to do the same thing over and over again. So in that respect, I think that was great. But yeah, I got that certificate and then I started a business, but I still was like that excuse of, well, we still need to, like, I still need to get to this level before I'm able to like, Really go for it.

All of that, all of that photography business stuff was literally a weekends and nights. Never really like there was always something that needed to happen before I could do, you know, before I could quit.

Lori Saitz: What was the thing that actually happened, that made you take the leap to doing photography full-time?

Melissa Henry: well, here's the thing, here's, here's what I'm going to tell you.

Just a few of those excuses, and then I'm going to tell you what really made me do that, right? So the excuses range from at first, it was, I'm not a good enough photographer yet, so I just need more clients. So, and I, I really felt like I needed to be, I need, I looked up to people who were in the newborn photography space.

So there's, uh, uh, like, um, uh, Julia Keller, her and Anna Brandt and those people, and I would be watching what they did and I would be like, oh yeah, like they just, they didn't know how to wrap those babies so well, and I'm just not good enough at that. And see, like when I do that, rapid just pops out and it's not good enough.

And, and I just was such a perfectionist around that stuff. And what I slowly over time realized that my clients were like, this is amazing. Because they're not looking at the little thing that's they don't care about that. You know, they have like compare it to. No. They're like, they're looking at their beautiful baby and going, oh, I'm so in love with this phone, you know?

So that over time I got over that, and then, then we were renovating our house. So I was like, well, I can't quit. Now. We got like hundreds of thousands of dollars going into renovating our house. I mean, literally we were, yeah, we built a whole new garage. We renovated the entire basement. We made that into a rental space, all of it, you know, and I was like, yeah, I'm not.

I mag, I can't do that. And then, then it was, oh yeah, we're having a baby. Oh no, your own baby. And I'm like, I can't, you know, can't do that now. You know, it was just one thing there's always, yeah, there's never the perfect time. No, there isn't. And I think the thing is, is that looking back on that stuff? No, it wouldn't have been a good time for me to quit, you know, that would just been.

Kind of dumb. So what I did do over time was we were saving money. We were saving money and then, um, Uh, and, and, uh, things got really like, what is the word very comfortable at work? I wasn't being challenged. I could do that job in my sleep. I had awesome people working for me. Everything was fine. Like, why do I, yes.

Why should I quit? Like, this is easy money, easy money, right? Yeah. And then my boss comes to me one day and he goes, well, I'm going to promote you to a project manager and you're going to go over there and work at that place. And don't worry, cause you'll have every Friday off. So you can work on your business.

That's what he told me. You know, you don't have to have, it's not as a full-time job. You know, it's going to be like a 30 hour, 32 hour a week thing. And I believed him and he was wrong in there. And I got like a skeleton crew because my, my company wasn't able to hire the people they needed to, to fill the spots in time.

Cause we, couple of things happened. Yeah. Yeah. We, the, we got the contract late. And so we only had like a month between contractors. So we had a month to learn everything from the previous contractor. And we had like no staff and everything they did was super manual. And all of a sudden I found myself not as the project manager.

I was the project manager, the manager over one of the sections and a doer. And it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. And then of course I had like every possible employee, bad, bad seed that you could have all at once, right in itself. Oh my God. Like you wouldn't even believe the stuff that happened. Can I say one really quick story that I thought was hilarious?

This one guy? Um, I just think, oh my God, it's so ridiculous. We were there very late and we ordered dinner and we all, we ordered hamburgers and. A hamburger was missing. And this one guy who was like, so I don't know, he's so selfish. He grabbed someone else's hamburger and ate it before they could even say like he ran away and ate it.

Wow. And then, then they're going, where's my burger. And everybody's like, well, I don't know. And they're like, oh, That guy ate it. Wow. So it was actually kind of environment raised, like literally hamburger eaters. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: Stealing Burgers from each other. Wow. That's kind of teamwork.

Melissa Henry: Right. And so then, um, the moment came where the, uh, section leader of this one section that I was helping out, it was probably 10 30 at night. I don't know. And she came over and she was standing right behind me. And she was, uh, saying, well, you said, you'd have this done at this time and it's not done and we need it and I need it now. And when will you have this thing?

And just literally like, like just peppering me with this stuff. And I had that moment where I, I. I dunno, my blood pressure was going crazy. I was exhausted. I didn't know if I was going to like, just quit right there on the spot and punch her in the face. I literally did not it anymore. Right. And I I've never ever like punched anyone, but I literally came very close that night.

And that's when her boss came down and said, okay, time to like, go back to your office, talking to her. And then, you know, she was just like, it's okay, Melissa. Like, everything's going to be okay. So that was the environment I was in. And I think I just got to that point. I was only there for six months.

Lori Saitz: It probably seemed like six years or maybe sixteen.

Melissa Henry: It seemed so long. And I was getting home. Sometimes at three in the morning, um, and then expected to be back in the office the next morning by like 9:30 or 10. I mean, there was no, no rest. Yeah, right. It was, it was crazy. And I, and I think, uh, what had happened was I, um, I met someone that I know from, from school, from my daughter's school rather.

And he and I walked to the Metro together that morning after one of those really late nights. And I, he looked yeah. And he goes, you look terrible. And I was like, yeah, Oh, thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah. And then we started talking and then he goes, you know, he's like, um, you know, you say, you've got some money saved.

He goes, you got a studio, you have a business, you have clients. Why don't you just quit? And I was like, I, it was like a moment of where I was like, okay, that's scary. But it's also at the same time felt so like a huge relief. I suddenly felt like, God, wouldn't that be wonderful? And then I got it.

Lori Saitz: You hadn't thought of that idea until somebody else pointed it out to you pointed out the obvious.

Melissa Henry: Well, yeah, I mean, cause like, cause I still it's still during this whole thing, I was like, there's no way I can quit. I mean, my God, you know, like have to bring money in. I have to, you know, I have to support my family. I have to have to have to, so I got to work, not to the office, but at the other end of the Metro where I was going and I, I just sat down and, and yeah, I called my husband and I was like, well, Hey, you know, what do you think of what, you know, our friend said, and he goes, yeah, Uh, yeah.

Why don't you quit? I need you home. Like you're never home. I was like, you sure you okay with that? And he's like, yeah. So that was what it took. Okay. Yeah.

Lori Saitz: And how long ago was that?

Lori Saitz: So just a few years ago, and life now? Would you describe it as fantastic?

Melissa Henry: Sure. Well, it, it doesn't feel as like high stress as it did before. Um, there are different stresses, right? Cause you know, it’s not, it's not like a walk in the park, but the difference is that it feels, it feels in alignment with you. I am like, literally

Lori Saitz: that is the key. Yes. Yeah. It's not about not having stress and not having necessarily days that are all sunshine and roses because that's not life. At the same time, the whole, the overall experience is different because you are fulfilled. Your soul is fulfilled. At the core.

Melissa Henry: Yeah. I mean, when I really got into it and I realized, because I did change my niche, like right after I quit, which probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. But, um, what I realized that that moment when I did change it, change it.

I just, I like, I go, oh my gosh, this lights me up. I could talk about this every day. And sometimes I do, and then my husband's like, I'm tired of hearing about it, but like, But that's how I knew it was like, oh, remember all those years ago. And you thought those people were so smart, like, and you weren't, the thing is they don't know Jack about what you're doing.

Right. So, you know, I am smart. I just smart in this, not in that. Right.

Lori Saitz: Right. And this that you're doing would not light them up. Not feel not smart. And they wouldn't. Yeah. I mean, it's, it goes back to that whole thing of, if you expect a fish to climb a tree what's that I don't even, I totally messed that up.

It was something about, yeah, I can totally get the fish to ride a bicycle and would never climb a tree ride a bicycle, whatever it is not do its own thing. It would. Yeah. Yeah. It's about finding your thing

Melissa Henry: And still. And the funny thing is, is like, you know, just because I discovered I had that self discovery moment and I took action on it.

There's still been a whole slew of more discovery moments since then. So it's just like, Even more. Like, I really do think that I said this to other entrepreneurs. I know you and I have talked about it, but it's like being an entrepreneur is like the biggest self-discovery thing you could probably do.

You know? I can't think of something else. That's cause you're you have, you're forced to now,

Lori Saitz: but not forced way. Like somebody like, like that woman standing over you going, when are you going to be finished? Forced in that it's continuous growth. Yes. But it's exciting. It's you want to do it because you want to get to the next level and you want to be better at, this is the thing you want to be better at it because you're excited about what you're doing.

Not because somebody else expects you and wants you to do it.

Melissa Henry: That's the key, right? It's like, if you don't have the passion for the thing that you're doing, then. All the growth stuff that you need to do to get there isn't fun. So I think that's how, you know. Right. And I do think like, you know, people say most, well, I don't know if there's people, I'm sure that start a business just to make money.

Right? Like that's sure that's what they want to do. And, and many of them are successful. I would have to wonder whether they're happy, whether they're fulfilled,

Lori Saitz: Right, because that's a different thing. Even if you are making money, that doesn't mean you're happy and fulfilled. And the two are not mutually exclusive. It's not like, well, in order to be happy and fulfilled, you have to sacrifice making money, not saying that at all.

Melissa Henry: No. It's like, but like, but going into it with, and I think for me that was kind of the key thing. Right. Cause I was so focused on, oh, we don't have enough money. Right. That scarcity thing kept coming up for me all the time. And so that's why for me, that leap was huge.

Lori Saitz: Like it was a leap of faith. And trust that you could make money doing the thing you love. Yeah.

Melissa Henry: Yeah. And I mean, I think that I, cause I think back on it and I think, you know, wow, like that's, that was an amazing thing. And you know, it was so scary and all the things, and then people have told me, and that means that you were, you know, brave, like, you know, it was a brave thing to do. And I thought to myself how funny, because honestly at that time I thought there was no other choice. You see? And I was like, I'm not sure if that's brave or not. And they said, yup, it's brave. And I'm like, okay.

Lori Saitz: I agree. I agree. I've had that feeling where you feel like, well, I don't see how that was brave, but at the same time, feel like I didn't have, I had to, I had to jump taking that leap.

There is an element of bravery and courage there as well. Kudos for doing it.

Melissa Henry: You know what it is, it's like standing at the edge of a cliff and you got a Wolf on one side and like a deep ravine on the other, which is more, you know? Yeah. I'll go ahead and jump. Thanks. I'll just go ahead and jump. See what's gonna catch me on the way down.

Lori Saitz: Yeah. And trust and trust, because really it does always work out. It does, if you have that, it does, even though it does don't know how, but it always does.

Melissa Henry: I was just going to say one last thing on that thing. It's like that, um, the, the, this too shall pass, you know, nothing ever stays the same.

And so you, you know, it's going to change, right? I mean, if you know that that's true, then you have to just lean into it.

Lori Saitz: Yeah. Everything always works out in the end. And if it's not all worked out, it's not the end.

Melissa Henry: That's right. I like that.

Lori Saitz: So, okay. So before we end, I got to ask you about your hype song, walk up song.

It's got all different kinds of terms too. Uh, to what it's called, but the song that you listened to when you need extra energy, you want to get pumped up and get, get high.

Melissa Henry: Oh yes. Okay. So yes. I'm glad that you told me that this would be a question because if I were just standing here, I wouldn't thought of it.

So my just briefly, my daughter is, uh, you know, into all kinds of different music, but she's. She's got her pulse on what's new and happening all the time. And so like couple of, I guess it must've been a couple of years ago, she introduced me to Megan Trainer and, you know, at first I was like, what is this stuff?

And then I started listening to her and I thought, man, this chick is awesome because she's just really empowering. And so I think the song that I would pick would be that song Me Too. And I it's like if I were, you I'd want to be me too. And the reason that I like it is not just the beat and all of the energy that you get out of it, Cause you do like you, can't not dance that song. It's just not physically impossible.

Lori Saitz: You can’t sit still.

Melissa Henry: Exactly. I think the other thing too, is that she's so kind of self-deprecating and a total, like she'd be somebody that I'd want to be friends with.

Lori Saitz: She would be hilarious.

Melissa Henry: She would be hilarious. And that song in particular is I think it's meant to be somewhat like, like tongue in cheek.

Yeah. Really also like, Hey, you know, all of you should feel that way about your own life, about your own life.

Lori Saitz: Yes, exactly. I love that. So that's why good point. Yeah. Thank you.

Melissa Henry: So I listened to it before I got on here today, we're going to put a link in the show notes to the songs so people can find it and listen to it.

Lori Saitz: What, how can people, if they wanted to continue the conversation with you about what you did and what you're doing now, where can they, where's the best place for them to find you?

Melissa Henry: Oh, wow. Um, well I guess they could just, you know, send me an email. I mean, let's do old school, right? Definitely send me an email.

I don't know. Where would you say Lori? What, what would be a good place?

Lori Saitz: What's your website?

Melissa Henry: Oh, well, my website is Melissa demple.com. So that's pretty easy and there is a contact form on that, but you can also email me at melissa at melissademple.com.

Lori Saitz: Okay, perfect. We'll put a link in the show notes for that.

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today on fine is a four-letter word.

Melissa Henry: You are so welcome. Thank you for having me.