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The Move to a One-Click World and How It’s Changing the Agency Space
11th June 2024 • The Google Ads Podcast • Solutions 8
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Kasim sits down with Nathan Perdriau, Co-Founder and Head of Paid Media at Blue Sense Digital, to discuss the challenges and implications of moving towards a one-click world in digital advertising. They also talk about the phantom recession no one seems to be talking about and their predictions and advice for the future as agency owners.

Listen to this episode to learn more about:

- The shift towards automation

- Understanding KPIs and financial metrics to improve strategy

- Operational issues faced by businesses

- Actions to avoid during this phantom recession


Connect with Nathan Perdriau and Blue Sense Digital here:

Blue Sense Digital website: https://www.bluesensedigital.com.au/

Nathan on LinkedIn:  

 / nathan-perdriau  

YouTube channel:   

 / @bluesensedigital  

Podcast:   

 / @blues-brothers-podcast  


0:00 Intro

0:32 The Move to a One-Click World and How It’s Changing the Agency Space

3:42 How Google maximizes revenue

10:19 Considerations and KPIs for making strategic decisions

17:50 The viability of a business is dependent upon CAC and the issues faced by businesses

24:09 Looking into the future, considering the current economic climate



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Transcripts

Speaker:

it's terrifying in so many ways because,

you know, we're agency owners and media

2

:

buyers and one click sounds a whole lot

like hands off, don't touch it, don't

3

:

pay your agency, bring it in house.

4

:

When we met, but y'all reminded me of me

and John, you guys are like the new me

5

:

and John, the younger, Improved versions

sort of, where do we go from here?

6

:

And I think John's been talking about

it for a year and a half, which is you

7

:

need to be moving out of ROAS to MIRV.

8

:

It's Carson with Solutions 8 and

this is your daily Google news.

9

:

I'm here with a buddy who I've been

trying to get on the channel for, it's

10

:

at least a year, you've been elusive.

11

:

it's my buddy Nathan BlueSenseDigital

based out of Australia, which

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:

is a real place I found out.

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:

public school students

were mighty surprised.

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:

I figured it was like, lore and J.

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R.

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R.

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Tolkien, but no, there's a real continent.

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:

You and your partner Sebastian

started BlueSenseDigital how long ago?

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Three, three and a half years ago now.

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And since then we had this conversation,

when we had met, but y'all reminded

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me of me and John, the younger.

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Improved versions.

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Cause you're doing all the things

that agencies generally don't do.

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You're doing the deep dives.

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You're kind of at the vanguard.

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You're cracking codes

and figuring shit out.

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And you just launched

your own YouTube channel.

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So for our subscribers that, cause we

get a lot of, well, I wish you guys

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:

would go back to the way things were.

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this is the place to go.

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This is going to be, my prediction

would be that BlueSenseDigital's,

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YouTube channel ends up being

the new solutions eight in terms

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:

of some of the more tactical.

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Like, hey, let's actually

dive deep and figure it out.

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:

And that's not to say that you

should stop watching solutions

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:

at YouTube channel, by the way,

because we're still bringing fire.

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:

but we do a lot of, the day to day.

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:

Like, how do you manage Google ads

campaigns on a recurring basis?

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That's where we found

our bread and butter is.

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:

And to be honest with you, it

tends to bring in more clients.

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the thing that sucked about producing

the content that you produce is.

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You get a lot of people they're

almost too smart to sell.

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it's a good problem to have

though, because that's where all

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of our, really high end clients

came from the content strategy.

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:

So I'm excited for you, man.

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:

and you've got a podcast too, right?

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Yeah, we do.

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It's it's called, the

blues brother podcast.

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And we just talk about e commerce.

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:

That's awesome.

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:

Um, so they're friends of solutions.

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Eight, follow the channel,

check out the podcast.

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Let's support them.

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Uh, finally got you on my channel and,

we're going to be talking about quite a

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:

bit here, but the thing that caught my

attention when you fired off your talking

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points is, the move to a one click world.

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That is the best clickbait

title I've ever heard.

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it's terrifying in so many ways

because know, we're agency owners

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:

and media buyers and one click

sounds a whole lot like hands off.

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:

Don't touch it.

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Don't pay your agency, bring it in house.

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:

So tell me more about the one click world

and whether or not agencies survive.

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Yeah.

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So if you look at the intent of Google

and Facebook, what is their intent?

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And that's to maximize revenue and

maximize inventory and the best

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way that they can possibly do that.

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Is to build towards a one click

world where any advertiser can hop

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on the platform, click one button,

launch a campaign, and be spending.

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:

But I think it goes a little bit deeper

than that, which is, if it's a one click

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world, anyone can hop on, create a PMAX

in one click, auto generates images,

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everything, now you're advertising.

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Why wouldn't Google even

out CPAs with gross margins?

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So that they can squeeze every brand

as much as possible, because that's

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ultimately how Google maximizes Rev.

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Is that they take as much of your

gross margin as they can, and

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they leave you with just enough.

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So that you keep spending on the platform.

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And so I think it's a, dangerous

position that we're moving towards,

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particularly with Facebook as well,

rolling out advantage plus, which is

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essentially a completely automated

version of current campaigns.

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There's no targeting.

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You just drop ads in and it just goes,

and you don't really know what it's doing.

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and performance max is similar.

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You can pull in backend scripts,

you can pull data, but it really is.

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Nearly one click, you're dropping in

assets, most of the assets that get

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served in PMAX are auto generated anyway.

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:

It's normally serving DSA,

it's not serving any of the

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static titles or descriptions

that you're providing it with.

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:

And so sort of, where do we go from here?

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:

And I think John's been talking about it

for a year, a year and a half, which is

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:

you need to be moving out of ROAS to MIRM.

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:

and I think that's almost becoming the

standard for most agencies and most

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:

people that are looking in platform.

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:

And that sort of comes back to the

one click world as well, which is.

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Google wants to attribute as

much revenue as humanly possible

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:

to the platform because they're

incentivized to make you spend more.

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:

And so if you think, Oh, my entire

business is reliant on Google.

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I do 150, 000 in rev a month.

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And a hundred thousand

of that is from Google.

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We can't stop spending.

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In fact, we should probably spend more,

but performance max is just going and

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retargeting all existing customers.

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:

And you do some quick math on the backend

and you find out that you had your

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Google attributed revenue with Facebook.

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And it's two X, what your actual PNL is.

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And so things don't start to line up.

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Are you using third

party attribution tools?

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We are, but, triple well.

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Oh my goodness.

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:

All right.

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:

Yeah.

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:

I've heard really good things

about triple well, John worked

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:

with them for a while, early stage.

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Yeah.

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:

there really any sense in trying

to identify the attribution

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:

thread at this point?

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mean, part of me wants

to just say, screw it.

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:

Three buckets, top of funnel performance,

middle of funnel performance,

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bottom of funnel performance.

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And then we're just

measuring cash in cash out.

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:

We're just going more.

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:

I'm not even going to attempt to see

on individual transactions where the

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:

thread goes, because it's too hard.

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It's too impossible.

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correct.

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:

John Ivanko, who is the co founder

of FormToro, which is pop up forms

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on site, collecting zero party data.

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He has a quote, which is Attribution.

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Is trying to find a customer

journey in a company journey.

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:

And so you'll never end up figuring

out what the customer is doing because

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:

you're just looking at a few companies

and how they're attributing the customer.

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:

And in reality, if we were to sit

back and say, all right, your average

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:

Econ brand or even your average lead

gen brand, how good is attribution

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:

in Google and Facebook out of 100%?

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It's probably like 80, maybe 75, maybe 70.

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:

And so how much of a squeeze is

there putting all of your time and

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focus going from 70 to 80 or from 80

to 90 when there's a hundred other

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bottlenecks in your business and

that's why you're not actually growing.

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:

I think business owners get

really caught up on attribution

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and it makes sense, right?

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Because as a business owner, you have

your cash flow and you're going, I

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:

want to grow, where do I put it?

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Do I put it into Google ads?

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Do I put it into Facebook?

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Do I put it into my SEO team over here?

146

:

Who's saying that they're

driving all the revenue?

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Where should I put the cash?

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:

And then everyone's telling

you different numbers.

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It doesn't all add up.

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And so you're trying to just quickly grow

the business with a single decision, but

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you can't because it's all a bit cloudy.

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:

How would you un murky the waters for us?

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So I'm a brand, I have

a tax relevant spend.

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I have the, paradox of success and I

am I'm doing social and I'm doing paid

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:

and I'm doing search and I'm doing organic

and I'm doing a Little outreach and PR

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and direct and all that just media mix.

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:

You're my CMO What decision do we make

now or what do we start looking for?

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Like what's the next step?

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:

I think firstly, you do look at the

attributed numbers with an assumption

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that they are 60 to 70 percent accurate.

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and generally speaking, if you

have a good media buyer, you can

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tell where people are pathwaying.

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There's the basics, Facebook will

normally over attribute on retargeting

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if you're doing a lot of Google spend.

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If you're doing a lot of Facebook

spend, Google will just scoop up brand

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search and look better than it is.

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So you need to look one layer deeper

than whatever's being attributed.

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:

And then I would be looking

at Top level CAC or NMR, which

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is just Acquisition Merged.

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So you're looking at new customer

revenue rather than total revenue.

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:

And then you're making tweaks

on a week to week basis with the

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acquisition strategy and seeing how

that impacts your top line numbers.

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:

for example, if you're spending 50 50

on Google and Facebook, And the CMO

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:

has a prediction working with the media

buying agency or whatever it might

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:

be, that if we spend more on Facebook,

we'll see better returns, increase spend

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:

on Facebook for 2 to 3 weeks and just

directly track top line revenue and

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try to keep other variables constant.

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:

It's going to be tough to do keeping

variables constant, especially

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when you're at a certain scale, but

taking a more holistic view while

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also having consideration of the

in platform numbers is going Yeah,

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:

well, I like what you said, too.

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It's actually, it's not an answer.

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It's sequence of tests

that probably never end.

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We're not going to make a decision

and then drive hard in that direction.

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We're going to start tweaking things so

we know what our knobs and our levers are.

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And then we're going to see how

those tweaks impact whatever the

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relevant KPI is at the moment, right?

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Be it Mer, NCAC, or however, because

I know everybody's measuring success

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differently and so should they.

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:

It's really easy for me to say LTV is

the only number that matters, because it

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is, but not in a 90 day period, right?

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There's no such thing as LTV.

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So now it's, hyper dependent

upon the business model too.

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And that's the other thing that I

think that we did a really poor

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job as educators getting across.

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there's no template.

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There can't because your business is,

So unique and then the approach that

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your business needs to take is so unique.

199

:

And so even you saying like, Mer

is the only way that we need to

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:

measure and correct me here, if

you think that I'm wrong, Nathan,

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:

but, if I'm zooming out, Mer is.

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:

the golden ratio, but if you're doing

the week over week analysis that

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:

you just referenced, can Murray even

be relevant because it doesn't take

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into consideration things like, lag

indicators, people in the pipeline,

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:

it doesn't Murr have to be a longterm.

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:

I mean, at least quarter over quarter,

if not year over year analysis.

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Yeah.

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what you're saying is that

there's an attribution lag on new

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customers as they enter the funnel.

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:

Yeah.

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Because if you increase spend really

rapidly, your MER will just drop.

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Well, you said that way better than I did.

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So, what are the other KPIs that

you recommend businesses look

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:

at as lead indicators for MER?

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So, if MER can't, I mean, MER is our gold

standard and we know that for a fact, but

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on a long enough timeline, as I'm in the

thick of it and I'm doing the test that

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:

you referenced on a week over week basis,

and I need to make decisions based off of

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yield of those tests, what is that yield?

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Like, what are the data

points that you're looking at?

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It depends if you're rapidly

increasing spend or not, because

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you could look at MER if you're

not increasing spend week on week.

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And that's what you said

about keeping variables.

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Yeah, because then technically that

lag would catch up and then you're

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just backfilling into the lag.

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:

Okay.

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But I really like looking at CAC these

days over MER and the reason being is that

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the best brands to work with end up being

CPG brands, so consumable based brands

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that have repeat purchases and have a

strong LTV, in which case CAC just makes

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a lot more sense when you can benchmark

towards a 90 day or a 180 day LTV, which

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they're targeting, and we know that that

cash flow is going to come off the back of

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acquiring a customer for a specific cost.

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:

especially with consumables, the

interesting thing about what I'm seeing

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:

there is, first year shooting fish in

a barrel, but then all you need is one

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:

other competitor to enter that space.

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And now people are spending more to

acquire a customer than the customer's

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worth the first time, the second

time, the third time, and then,

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you kind of have this race to the

bottom, said this to somebody today,

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I feel like we're in a traffic

bubble because you used to be

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able to self liquidate traffic.

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have very few customers that are self

liquidating, especially in the consumable

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space because they're all such small

purchases on the front end, generally

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speaking, with a few exceptions.

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So then it's like, all right, well,

I'm not going to self liquidate,

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:

but I'm going to make money on

the upsell or the order bump.

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And then it's like, well, the

upsell on the order bump pays

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:

for my traffic, but I'm going to

make money on the next purchase.

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:

Well, I'm not going to make money

on the next purchase, but my, my

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LTV is this and my CAC is that.

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So as long as my LTV outpaces my

CAC, You know, it takes me however

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:

long to maintain profitability.

251

:

So based on the customers that you're

seeing, do you think we're in a bubble?

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Do you think the traffic costs are viable?

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Or are we going to see a down

regulation once certain brands realize

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this just isn't viable anymore?

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big yes.

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I tell someone what that used to be.

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I cost, they're up enormously.

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And I think that particularly last

year, as well as this year, It's the

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squeeze that most agencies didn't

expect because COVID was so easy.

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it would start a brand, launch a

campaign, make money, full stop.

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And then what also ended up happening

was all of these brands did so well.

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And there was such explosive

growth through:

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22 a little bit, is that everyone

then over inflated their OPEX.

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Because there were now

a new revenue level.

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So they went, okay, now we need

to hire a marketing manager.

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We need to hire this.

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:

We need to hire that.

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And then suddenly their

OPEX grew from nothing.

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It was just a one person brand.

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Now they have seven people on

the team and revenues declined

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:

by 30 percent in the last year.

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And so everyone's saying this huge squeeze

and we get clients coming to us all the

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time where they'll come and we'll go,

okay, so let's lay out your financials.

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What's your target?

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And we are, and they'll go, and

you've probably got this before.

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And they'll go, 10 and they go,

Oh, actually, no, it might be

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14 and you go, well, good luck.

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you sell a hundred dollar product.

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We're not acquiring customers for 8.

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Like it's just not

happening on any platform.

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I don't know how you expect

to scale at a 14 mirror.

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And they're like, Oh, well we have to,

because we have 80, 000 in OPEX per month.

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You know, why do you have 80,

Oh, because it's just there.

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It's just on the P& L.

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The accountant told us

it's there, so it's there.

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:

start to find a situation where

a majority of brands now aren't

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facing really a marketing problem.

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It's an operational issue.

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even their contribution margin on orders.

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So you'll have brands that will

have 30 percent gross margins

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on non repeat purchase products.

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80, 000.

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And you go, how do you expect to have any

allocation towards marketing when you're

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only making 30 percent gross, right?

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Because 30 percent gross means that if

you want to operate at 15 percent net as a

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company, assuming no fixed costs, no OPEX.

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You'd have to spend 15 percent

on marketing, which is the

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equivalent to about a 6 MER, a

7 MER, and that's with no OPEX.

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Right.

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how does that operationally make sense

unless you're at a huge scale doing

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really 20, 30, 40 million a year?

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Yeah, already said this, it's not

accounting for OPEX, but I think what

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a lot of people don't realize when

they're playing their Excel file games

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is we're all multi millionaires on

Google Sheets, but it doesn't take

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:

into consideration things like returns,

you know, I mean, the econ game.

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:

Is one or lost in some instances

in certain industries, just

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:

on returns, or the fact that

everybody's offering free shipping.

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Well, someone pays for that, lot of

these, especially the students that enter

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:

the game, I don't think they're taught

properly the way to look at numbers.

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:

I like what you said that most of

these problems aren't marketing

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:

problems or operations problems.

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That also kind of lends itself to

the idea that agencies they're

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not media buyers anymore.

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They're like business consultants, because

you have to know what you just said.

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You'd have to know to look

at how to look at a P& L.

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:

bet you 90 percent of agency owners don't

know how to look at a P& L properly.

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So yeah, you'd have to know how to

look at a P& L, how to zero in on

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:

where, you know, where's the inflated

number, really start to pick it apart.

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:

And then it kind of begs an

interesting philosophical question,

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which is the viability of a business.

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:

is entirely dependent upon your CAC.

322

:

I'm backing into this too, because I'm

having this thought as you and Eric

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:

talking, but right now what everybody

does is they build a business, they

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:

build the assembly line, they build

the product, they build the fulfillment

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:

team, and then they go and they tell guys

like us, all right, we have to have 6X.

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:

We have to have 9x, we have to

have 15x, based off of this.

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:

And really what should happen

is, we should go try to sell

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:

this shit, and come back and say,

okay, you can afford 4x business.

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:

So you gotta go figure out how to

squeeze all of your crap into 4x, and

330

:

if you can, you'll make some money.

331

:

And if you can't, then don't do this.

332

:

But that's not the way that we function.

333

:

And we can't sell it

that way either, sadly.

334

:

you're spot on.

335

:

that's why we particularly, we

started losing, we lost a few clients.

336

:

We lost two to three clients and every

time we lose a client, man said, sit

337

:

down for a 30 minute meeting and we

just take complete ownership of why the

338

:

client left and try to figure out how

we can never have that situation again.

339

:

Because if you can fix every time

a client leaves, then eventually

340

:

clients will just never leave because

you've patched every single hole.

341

:

what we found for three clients in a

row was that even with all the ownership

342

:

and responsibility that we could take,

it ended up being operational issues.

343

:

One was, overinflated opex.

344

:

Their opex was so high from Covid.

345

:

They hired, so their revenue

went from 300 to 600.

346

:

They went and increased

their staff from two to 15.

347

:

Oh, good.

348

:

post covid drop, no cutting of staff.

349

:

Staff remained the same.

350

:

And so their targets got outta control.

351

:

Just outrageous.

352

:

And we're like, well,

we, we can't hit this.

353

:

Another one was a

consumable brand, $60 a OV.

354

:

So it's a consumable product

gets a repeat purchase rate.

355

:

wow.

356

:

Okay.

357

:

And so you can't sell a

low AOV consumable product.

358

:

If no one's going to

buy the product again.

359

:

Well, that also means

no one likes your shit.

360

:

Correct.

361

:

it's a fun thing to come and tell

your client, like, Hey, we're selling

362

:

this and nobody's coming back.

363

:

So, yeah.

364

:

And so if you're going to run on like

an LTV based business model where

365

:

you'd, shift your KPI to, CAC to LTV,

because you know, you're going to be

366

:

profitable on second, third purchase.

367

:

Yeah.

368

:

You need a 2nd, 3rd purchase, and

that is a baseline requirement.

369

:

And then, we had another client, and this

is really common, you probably have this

370

:

as well, where it's almost a retailer.

371

:

They have, they just stock other people's

products,:

372

:

what ends up happening is.

373

:

We say, okay, we're at a 10, 15,

no, let's start scaling spend.

374

:

Oh, we can't, we have no cashflow.

375

:

where's your cashflow?

376

:

Oh, it's all stuck up in inventory.

377

:

And then you go, okay, well, let's,

give us an inventory export of all SKUs.

378

:

And let's have a look here.

379

:

And then you can start building out Excel

sheets to look at overstock and orders.

380

:

And you start to go, wait a second.

381

:

They're overstocked by

2 million in inventory.

382

:

And this is a 2 million brand.

383

:

so their revenue is their

inventory being held right now.

384

:

So as they're generating free

cash flow, it's just straight

385

:

into inventory and it's gone.

386

:

And so, once again, it's an operational

issue, not a marketing issue, is if they

387

:

could tighten up their buying and they

could craft offers around overstocked

388

:

products and get rid of them, and

even just cut down your SKU count.

389

:

Most of the time, you can cut 60

percent of your SKUs and you'll be fine.

390

:

It's Pareto's principle, 80

percent of revenue comes from

391

:

20 percent of the products.

392

:

So, there's all those considerations

that marketing agencies will,

393

:

will lose those three clients.

394

:

Every marketing agency will lose them.

395

:

unless you're a strong financial

operator and you understand operations

396

:

within businesses or specifically e

com or whoever you're working with.

397

:

Because or else, how do

you retain those clients?

398

:

Just within the silos of

Google and Facebook ads.

399

:

This is the funny thing about being

an agency owner is at a certain point,

400

:

I mean, it used to be, we just ran

the ads and then it was like, well,

401

:

run the ads and tell me the numbers.

402

:

And it was like, well, run the ads, tell

the numbers and dig into my operations.

403

:

had friend He goes, I'm looking

for a marketing agency.

404

:

Who's willing to run the ads

performance based and pay the ad spend.

405

:

And I'm like, All right,

dude, that, good for you.

406

:

he's got a well known brand and everybody

knows who he is, that only goes so far.

407

:

I'm like, I want that too.

408

:

A B at a certain point, I start

to wonder why do I need you?

409

:

And I don't know if you've ever felt

that way, but some of these brands

410

:

that I've worked with, I'm like, all

right, we did your top of funnel.

411

:

We did your lead acquisition.

412

:

We're now helping with your sales

and now we're going to dump into

413

:

your fulfillment at a certain point,

you're irrelevant to this process.

414

:

And I should just own your business.

415

:

And feel that could be the way that

good agencies go is we just start

416

:

opening up our own businesses and our

own brands because it's not worth the

417

:

lift of trying to bring these other

people with us, especially given

418

:

how inept they are at everything.

419

:

Hmm.

420

:

thought about acquisitions at Tom is.

421

:

with a lot of brands now, we're

at the extent where we just

422

:

run the whole company, right?

423

:

we're looking at overstock.

424

:

We're telling them, Hey, these

products are out of stock.

425

:

You need to change your buying cycles.

426

:

We're looking at contribution margin.

427

:

We have their whole P and L in

excels and we're monitoring OPEX.

428

:

And we're saying, Hey,

OPEX went up last month.

429

:

What did you do?

430

:

I went out for a nice dinner.

431

:

And we're like, Oh, well, don't think

we should count that within our numbers.

432

:

And I think we should back that out.

433

:

Right.

434

:

it is at the point where it's like,

why don't we just, what's left?

435

:

It's customer support.

436

:

And.

437

:

Product design.

438

:

figure that shit out on Fiverr?

439

:

Yeah, exactly.

440

:

Yeah, it's interesting, right?

441

:

Because, the best agencies

will move to that.

442

:

And then at that point, do you just

move away from being an agency and

443

:

just start becoming an incubator

of businesses and brands under you?

444

:

which actually sounds like a lot of fun.

445

:

That's maybe my little sad pathetic

dream is I'd love to have an

446

:

incubator after I made my exit.

447

:

That was kind of the plan is I'm just

going to go and build businesses.

448

:

So we'll see.

449

:

Maybe that's the new agency model.

450

:

Last words to you.

451

:

they might be a potential client

that could be an agency owner.

452

:

when I sold my business, I had 185 clients

and I have 130 now and we're phenomenal.

453

:

And when I do the analysis of who we've

lost, it's exactly what you're saying.

454

:

It's topic issues, fulfillment

issues, um, a lot of financial issues.

455

:

We've had a few clients

declare bankruptcy.

456

:

And yet, if you look outside,

everything seems to be fine, right?

457

:

Like all the pundits, all

the, usual suspects in terms

458

:

of the barometers look okay.

459

:

So I just think this is such a

strange black box that we're in.

460

:

Where do you see the next 18 months?

461

:

Good question.

462

:

I'll reiterate what you said, which is

that most brands are down year on year.

463

:

a few brands are up and doing well, I see

over the next 18 months, it's going to be

464

:

dark, probably for the next 6 to 12, with

all the things that we've talked about,

465

:

right, is that ad costs are going up.

466

:

So there's this huge squeeze

on most brands, and we're

467

:

Ecom focused on the agency.

468

:

That's why I'm always referencing

Ecom, but a lot of businesses

469

:

opened in Ecom during COVID.

470

:

And a lot of people didn't get to go

through tough times to learn all of the

471

:

core fundamental skills that it takes.

472

:

To maintain a business.

473

:

If you start a business during

a bull rally, what happens

474

:

when you go into the recession?

475

:

right.

476

:

And so all of these businesses are now,

everything's tightening up on the P and L.

477

:

And then all it takes is a few

lines to tighten and suddenly

478

:

you're negative cash flowing.

479

:

And you're going, what's going on?

480

:

And the worst thing you could do at this

moment, and this is going to sound bad,

481

:

probably coming from us as agency owners.

482

:

The worst thing you could do is turn

to your agency and just scream at them.

483

:

Because really the only thing that's

going to fix operational issues with

484

:

most of these brands is operational

issues is looking internally and

485

:

figuring out what's going on and then.

486

:

Ideally, yeah, you might want to look

for an agency that is better aligned

487

:

with high level business strategy and

is going to look in and consult and help

488

:

you outside of the accounts, but it's

really understanding numbers, number one.

489

:

and it sounds so obvious, but I'm sure you

talk to business owners every single day.

490

:

it would blow people's minds how

many businesses don't know what

491

:

their gross margin number is.

492

:

Yeah, I think that's the single

biggest need in the, space of

493

:

entrepreneurship is financial

services that actually distill the

494

:

information in a way that's actionable.

495

:

Here's your dashboard.

496

:

Green is good.

497

:

Red is bad.

498

:

You want it to be up to the right.

499

:

And if it's not, then we need

to start making decisions.

500

:

Nobody knows their per service

or per product margins.

501

:

Do you not know that information?

502

:

You know what I mean?

503

:

Like, how do you not know

what you make on what?

504

:

And, what's interesting too, is every

time I'm on the phone with somebody

505

:

who we land in this part of the

conversation, they know, they don't know.

506

:

You know what I mean?

507

:

It's not like a surprise.

508

:

They're like, no, no, I know, but on a

long enough timeline, we're making money.

509

:

So I guess it's okay.

510

:

And I think that's exactly

what you were speaking to.

511

:

The rising tide floats all ships.

512

:

Money was flowing.

513

:

You didn't need to be

sophisticated to make any money.

514

:

And so there's a lot of unsophisticated

people in the market and they're

515

:

getting annihilated right now.

516

:

And I'm watching them drop

like flies and, it'll taper.

517

:

And then, you know, what's really

interesting is, the market always

518

:

overcorrects cause that's just

the way the pendulum swings.

519

:

This is a lot of fun, man.

520

:

I really appreciate you hopping on.

521

:

I'd love to have you back again.

522

:

where can people find you?

523

:

We're going to link to your podcast.

524

:

If somebody wanted to work with

you, how would they reach out?

525

:

you could reach out through our

website, which is bluesensedigital.

526

:

com.

527

:

au or you can find me on LinkedIn.

528

:

Yeah.

529

:

We'll drop that in the

description and the show notes.

530

:

Do you just do agency services

or do you do consulting?

531

:

we do consulting as well.

532

:

Yeah.

533

:

Okay.

534

:

That's great.

535

:

Yeah.

536

:

that's awesome.

537

:

Nathan super appreciate you man.

538

:

High five if you're watching

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