Join host Erika Audrey on this juicy episode of Clover Club as she is joined by her dear friend Kara Hidinger, co-owner of Staplehouse. With a friendship spanning 15 years, Erika and Kara share a special bond rooted in shared experiences, including the loss of loved ones to cancer. In this candid conversation, they tackle real-life topics like marriage, parenting, entrepreneurship, and the bitter sweet symphony of love and loss. Amidst the poignant moments, the duo also reminisces about hilarious embarrassing stories and cherished memories. Tune in for an authentic and touching discussion that delves into the highs and lows of life, friendship, and resilience.

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Welcome to Clover club, a podcast about

curious conversations and stories and

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tended to make you laugh and learn.

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I'm your host, Erica.

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And today I am joined by oh.

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One of my favorite,

favorite, favorite people.

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Kara Heidinger Cara.

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Hi.

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Hello, Erika.

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Thanks for having me today.

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Oh my gosh.

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Thanks for letting me nail you down.

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I'm so nervous.

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Totally for some reason is nervous,

even though she is the most personable,

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like interesting person ever.

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No, I see.

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I can do the one-on-one, but you had a

microphone or a camera or a recorder.

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And.

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I get weird.

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Well, this podcast is

all about getting weird.

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I'm here.

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Let's get weird.

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Let's do it.

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, so Kira, I feel like we should

start with how we know each other.

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So Kara and I have been friends

for, has it been like 15 years?

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I mean I'm yeah, I met you 15 years ago.

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So when I moved to Atlanta was in 2009.

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But it was probably about a year

before I found myself sitting in

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your chair at Helmut and Midtown.

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Oh my God.

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Yeah, long time ago.

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Long time ago.

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, yeah.

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And ever since then, We have, uh,

we've experienced a lot of similar,

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like, , benchmarks throughout our life.

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Um, we have a lot of commonalities,

like being small business owners, but

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we also have sad things in common.

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Like we've both lost too

many people to cancer.

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And you've always been somebody that,

, I feel like gets it when it comes to

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talk to about certain topics, you know?

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, and, uh, I just think you're the best.

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And so I'm excited to share , , Your

story and your business and just kind

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of all things Kira Heidinger all right.

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Let's do it.

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And thank you.

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I think that a lot of our

paths have been relatable.

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And I think that one thing that

you and I both do, , and do

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well is show up authentically.

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Right.

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So whatever space we're in and

it might be with sadness might

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be with wit or humor or sarcasm.

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, but it's always authentic and there's

always, , I, I value that cause that.

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It's an important connection.

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I value that about you as well.

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And I think.

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For people who know us

for better or for worse.

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That's true.

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Where you stand with people like Kara.

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Or I totally there's no room for bullshit.

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But again, not authenticity though, is

when it does connect or when it does

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click or, you know, that like we show up

for those people in our lives, that it

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is, you know, without strings attached,

without hesitation or reservation and.

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Like we show up as authentic, but

we, we connect with people that also

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have that same level of authenticity.

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Yes.

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And that can be rare.

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And that can be hard, harder to

find than, than you'd imagine.

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I couldn't agree with that more.

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And that's why I cling onto people

that bring that to the table because I

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don't really, I'm like a quality over

quantity type of person, a percent.

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I don't need a million friends.

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Um, but the ones that are allowed

to stay at my circle have to be.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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Real, real.

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The other part of that too, is that we

spend both of us in our small businesses

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spend so much time forward-facing with

guests and cultivating a guest experience.

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And sometimes, you know, and meeting

people where they are in a shared space.

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, but , that's like kind of a curated

setting that when we're out of that,

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it has to just be stripped down.

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Right.

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And, you know, I value

that a lot, so, yeah.

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Thanks for having me here today.

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Oh my gosh.

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I'm just again, so excited.

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, are your palms sweating a little bit?

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That's the nervous, the nervous me.

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, okay.

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So Kira, you were born in Indiana.

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Yep.

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Born.

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To Georgia in 2009.

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Yep.

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, your brother was already down here.

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He was, he was a chef.

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Yup.

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, He and his wife.

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Yeah.

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At the time started a supper club.

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Yes.

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And, uh, kind of take us through how

the formation of that has taken you

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to where you're at in your career.

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Yeah.

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That's a really long

timeline for an hour podcast.

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Um, I think I could only answer

that question for the next hour.

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So I'll give, sort of like the clip,

that abbreviated version and try

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and just hit on the high points.

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I mean, there's some

low points too, right?

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I mean, it's kind of the very big global.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, in some, you know, kind

of several along the way, but I feel

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like that's the dip and, you know,

combining your personal life, your

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passion and your professionalism, all

in one shared space, um, with, with

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family, who's also going through the same

experience, but through a different lens.

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Yeah.

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, and that's, it's been a wild ride.

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So I moved here in 2009.

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Yes, my brother and his

wife, were both here in town.

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, but my mom was also here

as well as my stepdad.

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, and my older brother had recently.

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Not long before relocated to LA

and I had a looming 30th birthday.

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, and as a single 30 year old woman with

no career path, I was like, I should just

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pack my things and move to a new city.

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Um, and I really wanted

to be close to family.

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So, , I moved in with my mom.

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And I was, , waiting tables at

Bacchanalia and just kind of

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learning the Atlanta landscape and.

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On Sundays when Bacchanalia was

closed, I would occasionally work

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alongside my brother and Jen and

their little grant park home.

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, for, you know, serving 10 guests

that would show up to you dinner.

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And I really loved it.

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I love the spirit of it.

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, my brother had a presence

that was just genuine.

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And kind of inked kind

and funny and unassuming.

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Yeah.

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Especially for so many

chefs in the profession.

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And you knew my brother, , And

that's what I loved about that.

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Like, just seeing him in his element.

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And it reminded me of our, a chef that he

and I both worked for, , who we have also

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lost, , chef Greg Hardesty and Greg was.

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A major influence in both

my brother and I's career.

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You know, Especially as

it pertained to integrity.

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, so, uh, seeing my brother that element.

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Reminded me of being in Indianapolis

and my brother and I both worked under

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a shift, Greg Hardesty and for my.

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, his business partner,

anyhow, fast forward.

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We would do the dinners and I was slowly

getting adjusted and we had talked about

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one day if I would be able to work for

them and what that might look like.

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And they had, you know, continued their.

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Campaign.

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, trying to, you know, fund the

small business, but as anyone

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knows, , restaurant viability is.

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, lo I mean, what I think restaurants

almost out like survive.

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W five years, I think it is.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, I'm not good with statistics.

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I'm not here to talk math.

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Restaurant life is hard and

a lot of them close, um, and

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margins, autumn also sock, right?

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People think it's really

lucrative, but it's a grind.

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Yeah.

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Unless you're doing

just like insane volume.

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Yeah.

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All that being said.

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, you know, things were kind of just

slowly going along when, after a

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day trip to New York with my then

boyfriend also chef also named Ryan.

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, but now lovingly called

by his last name Smith.

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, my brother fell ill and a lot

of you that know the giving

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kitchen or no staple house.

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, kind of know how the narrative

goes, but that Ryan was diagnosed

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and given six months to be with us.

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And he was with us a year.

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, and it was a hard and beautiful year.

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And my brother.

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Said and believed in embodied that life

was more beautiful knowing his days where

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his last than he ever would have been if

he had not been diagnosed with cancer.

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And that's a really.

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Powerful statement.

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I think that he, he did have that piece,

but he knew that most of us did not.

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And he worried about us and how we were

going to grieve and how we were going to

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heal and how we were going to move on.

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And he was real mindful of that.

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And he brought that to the forefront

of conversations quite often.

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Uh, so , , after his diagnosis though,

and during that journey, he was encouraged

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to pursue his dream with whatever

days he may have left of pursuing

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his dream of opening a restaurant.

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Yeah.

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So he met with my, , Then

boyfriend, they got some coffee.

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He came home and said, I'm going to

leave empire state, south and open

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a restaurant with your brother.

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And I said, I think

that's a really bad idea.

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I, um, I didn't think that

it was the right move.

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I felt like his career was on a certain

trajectory at empire state south.

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And it was kind of like just.

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You know, headed up towards that

peak and that knowing that my brother

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wouldn't be with us, it was, was

it, you know, it felt it was based

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more on hearts than it was on logic.

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, he was steadfast in that, like,

he, he was really steadfast and

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it took me warming up to the idea.

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, but I also appreciated

that he led with his heart.

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Yeah, cause that's kind of a, a rare

human quality as well, especially

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if something of that magnitude.

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Yeah.

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So we move forward.

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There's a lot.

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I have set there's so

much in that timeline.

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Um, so we move forward.

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We did an Indiegogo campaign, which

there's little remnants all around

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the restaurant of people that

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, the giving kitchen was growing

and we decided to open staple

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house as the for-profit

subsidiary of the giving kitchen.

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, which is also kind of wild, right?

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Like there's just, it's a lot of logistics

and lots of teams and lots of hands.

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Yeah, touching a product or a

project also product, right.

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Product of, you know, community and.

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Love of cooking and restaurant life

and hospitality and all of that.

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, so we move forward with that.

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I should've written this timeline down.

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I should know it.

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I mean, I lived it.

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No, you're doing great.

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. So my brother passed, um, you

know, he helped plan the early

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stages of state officer's little

indelible marks at him throughout.

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, I feel as energy there a lot.

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, but he passed before we

opened to the public.

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. And it was both a celebration.

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, but also.

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Like of life and of community, but

I was reminded and I still am quite

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often that I'm there because he's not.

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Yeah, which is kind of a

tangled web to weave, right?

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Like I'm there because he's not.

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, and I'm grateful for him, but I also am

reminded so often of how much I miss him.

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And.

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The narrative never leaves.

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So every day at work, it's

woven into what I do and how I

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interact and things people ask.

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, but I'm, I'm proud.

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I'm proud of how far we've come.

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The life of staple house is

also, you know, a long one.

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Right?

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We've had I say, you know, pivot

or perish has been our motto.

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Yeah.

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And I think we're on.

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Staplehouse version like 9.0.

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You are like the masters of adaptation

and pivoting and make it work at.

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Yeah, really impressive.

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We're on the trajectory.

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Thank you.

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We're masochist.

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I feel like.

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There's just like, or try to make it as

hard on ourselves as, uh, as possible.

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But we, I mean, it's had to, right,

like the, the culture of dining on

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Edgewood pandemic life, you know, it's

just, there's been such an ebb and

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flow that we've just tried to find.

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What we're how we can line up what

we're capable with our location and how

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the, you know, the market will meet us.

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Yeah.

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Or the consumer.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I know I missed a huge timeline in

there, but yeah, we opened the restaurant.

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It's still open.

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, it was owned by the giving kitchen,

and then we purchase it at the start

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of the pandemic or August of 2020.

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And I still say it'll be the best

or worst business decision I've

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ever made and jury's still out.

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Well, uh, As an onlooker, I

think it's the best decision.

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And I don't think, I don't believe in

bad decisions because no matter what

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the outcome is, you learn so much

from these choices and it's not a.

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Good or bad.

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It's just a different path.

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Yeah.

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I think what all have learned is

to never open another restaurant.

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, well, one thing that I love about Kara

is that you're very Frank and Curt and

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honest about just the realities of a.

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All facets of your life.

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, and so I've appreciated.

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Especially through COVID

and stuff like that.

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I mean, anybody, we know so

many small business owners.

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Yeah, all of us were simultaneously

shaking in our boots.

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And also.

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It's okay.

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Right.

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I think it's fine, right?

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Yeah.

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We got that.

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Yeah, we're gonna be fine.

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This is going to be fine.

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I'll figure out a way to pay for

food and keep my lights on and

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keep my business afloat and sure.

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Yeah.

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And, I mean, and we're still here.

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I mean.

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2024 and a.

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The doors are open.

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I know.

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So I guess we've we got that part covered.

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Yeah.

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And you pivoted as well, right?

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Definitely.

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Yeah.

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What's that pivot been like for you?

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, it's been great.

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, It was.

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Well years, I think it's

been six years ago now.

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I'm sure you remember

when I broke my finger.

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That was my first little, Hey,

you need revenue that doesn't

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come from solely your hands.

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Yeah.

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And so I think the seed was

planted pre COVID that I needed

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to diversify my revenue stream.

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And just have a kind of more options.

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Totally.

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, things that can withstand, you know,

injury or illness or fucking global

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catastrophic conditions that are going

to last forever and ever, and ever.

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, and yeah, I mean, same for you guys.

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And it's kind of interesting now

it's, you know, so you started

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as a, a sit down restaurant.

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Yup.

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And in COVID pivoted to the market.

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Yep.

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And then now you've got this

hybrid situation, which.

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To me sounds great.

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Yeah.

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How does it feel on your end?

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It feels really hard.

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To be really transparent.

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It feels grueling and agonizing.

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And like we're opening a second

restaurant right on top of the one we

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have with, with inadequate staffing.

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Okay.

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I feel like that's been, you know,

this industry, I think that's

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been one of the hardest things

I've seen or one of the most.

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, detrimental or devastating and

lingering outcomes from the pandemic.

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Yeah.

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Is the staffing.

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So many people in our industry had a

moment of pause that when the pandemic

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happened and they were forced leave,

they're like, oh, I can go to a park.

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Like I can go do activities

when the sun's up.

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Right.

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Because most of the time they work late.

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And the only thing open

after work is a bar.

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Yeah.

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So I think that so many, I don't

think I know so many professionals

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left the industry and while

people are slowly coming back

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and new people are coming to it.

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, it's it seems, it feels a

bit more conditional, right?

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And sort of like the restaurant

metrics haven't changed.

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But the, as far as like what is needed

to do the job and, and the finances

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that are available to support it, but

people that are coming into it or that

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work in hospitality are kind of setting.

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Uh, or are asking, demanding or

creating a boundary that says

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what they will or won't do.

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And they aren't really lining up.

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So it's, it's harder to find,

, people, uh, to help the business.

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And right now we're short-staffed.

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And so we have team members that work

open, you know, are in it 9:00 AM or

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8:00 AM and Jake chef Jakes, and even

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You know, it's a full day there.

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Two shifts.

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So they prep XQ flip.

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You know, prep again, execute and

close, and it's just, it's a lie.

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So.

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Logistically it hurts.

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Right.

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Um, I mean, I'm old, my bones hurt.

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I'm tired.

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Um, I am.

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I'm very old.

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I just turned 44 in January.

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Okay.

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I'm old.

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Okay.

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And even then, you know, I saw that one

of those I don't want to, they called on

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like Instagram when it's got a picture.

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And then like, or is it a meme?

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Is it, uh, a meme?

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Yeah.

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That people.

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Yeah.

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The picture and something fun.

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Yeah.

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There we go.

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I have see, there we go.

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I tend to phone.

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There's a funny picture, but like, yeah.

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It's called a meme, I guess.

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I thought he was like making.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So it's a meme.

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And there's one that says

you're only as old as you feel.

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I was like, I feel like my, it was just.

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Zoomed from a tomb in Egypt and given

a cup of coffee and sent to work.

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And I feel that way every day, that's

like, it hurts in my bones and it's, you

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know, literally hitting the pavement.

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So.

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I digress.

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I go, this is what happens.

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I go on these rants.

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And then I don't even

know where I started.

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I love it, Gary.

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Where were we?

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We're talking about being exhausted.

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No.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And, and the business, how it's going.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, you also, leered on to

other things that are exhausting.

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Hmm.

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Named children.

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Yeah.

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And puppies.

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And puppies.

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Two puppies and I've got two children.

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And I have a husband who's kind

of between a child and a puppy.

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I've got five things.

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I'm responsible for taking care of.

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And a business.

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So your plate is full.

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Yeah.

421

Which is even more of a big

deal that you're taking out

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time to be on clever clubs.

423

So again, No I'm here for it.

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It got me away from everyone else.

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So welcome to sanctuary.

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Thank you.

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, but yeah, I appreciate your

honesty about just the realities

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of actually living life.

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Because I think outside looking

in, it's like, oh my gosh, you

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own this beautiful restaurant.

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You've got this beautiful family.

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You've got these adorable puppies

and all of that is absolutely true.

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Comma and it's, it's hard to shit.

434

Yeah.

435

Yeah.

436

I mean, I think it's like, if someone was

like, oh, what do you do for a living?

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I survive.

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Like my full-time job is survival

and keeping the things around

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me alive, keeping my business

alive, keeping my children alive.

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Keeping my marriage alive, right?

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Like, So there's never something that

doesn't need my immediate attention.

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There's no like graceful

periods of ease, right?

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Like even work.

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, it's, there's no

boundaries with it, right.

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Especially when you are married.

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And own a business together.

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Yeah.

448

Right.

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Like, there's no separation.

450

Like he has his job and I'm mine.

451

We come home and we chat up.

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It's like, we have to deal with

all the same shit all the time.

453

Right.

454

And that, that is, that

takes a certain type of.

455

Resilience, I think in insanity.

456

Um, to, to weather that, but yeah,

I think that, I would never have

457

thought I would have layered on the

elements in, in the way that I did.

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I mean, Lillian was only six months, five

months old and we opened a restaurant.

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Yeah.

460

I mean, I had a pack and play in

the office and I was nursing in

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the bathroom and I had a carrier on

while I was running food to tables.

462

And like, I look back at that or on

Sundays brunch, she would sit in the high

463

chair by the host stand and the staff.

464

It was just like help

keep her entertained.

465

Right.

466

I think it's one of those that you don't

know how hard it is because you just keep

467

going and if you stop or you look back

or you pause, it will feel overwhelming.

468

So yeah, the only thing I know

how to do is just keep powering

469

through, even when it sucks.

470

So, uh, do you have any advice or tips on

how you replenish your well, when you're,

471

because you're such a giver, but obviously

you can't give if you're on empty.

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So when you start to see that light,

come on, like, what is your go-to to.

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Replenish.

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I don't know.

475

I've heard self care is a thing.

476

Isn't it?

477

There's books about it.

478

I've heard people talk about, I think.

479

I think it's all on a meme.

480

I think, I think that's a quick study.

481

Yeah.

482

Um, I don't.

483

I don't know that I have a thing.

484

I don't know that I pause.

485

Like I said, I think that that's a.

486

And.

487

Probably not probably likely to my

detriment long-term is that I don't,

488

I mean, Honestly, I get my hair.

489

I spend time in your chair to be honest,

like that's my, my self care, , is

490

that pause of like taking time and

it's a safe space that I can connect

491

with you and chat about life and

psych part therapy, part self care.

492

Yeah, those are kind of the same

thing, but, , and also like some, you

493

know, popping out just to walk the

dogs or, I mean, . This day and age,

494

like going to target without my kids.

495

Right?

496

Like just little things here and there

that like, I can catch my breath.

497

Yeah.

498

But I also, I choose that, right?

499

Like, I choose to go full throttle.

500

I choose to show up for those things

because they matter and I chose

501

to bring them all into my life.

502

So I will, again, that

integrity piece I will show up.

503

Every day, in fact, My brother

journaled while he was sick.

504

And when he died, he left

us the gift of his writing.

505

And in it, he identified a characteristic

and several of us that he admired and

506

respected or wanted to acknowledge.

507

And for me, it was perseverance.

508

And I'm reminded of that a

lot when, when times are hard

509

and times are great a lot too.

510

Sometimes I have fun.

511

I mean, sometimes I enjoy,

you know, doing things with my

512

children or hanging with the dogs.

513

Right.

514

Um, So, yeah.

515

That's fun sometimes.

516

You know, sometimes I like them.

517

Yeah, they're great.

518

I mean, they are really cool kids.

519

I feel like they've grown up

in the hospitality industry

520

and they see the grid.

521

Um, and it's made him

really like resilient.

522

Yeah.

523

And that's, that's pretty cool to

watch you can't have you and Smith

524

his parents and not be cool as fuck.

525

You're kind.

526

Yeah.

527

Cool.

528

Yeah.

529

And so, okay.

530

So your husband Smith, he is a chef.

531

He's been was a chef before you met him.

532

Is the chef at staple house.

533

In my opinion, one of the most talented

chefs I've ever met, I love his cooking.

534

, ah, He has a unique perspective.

535

Like, I feel like there's so many

people just regurgitating the same

536

boy stuff and he really is so good

at using interesting ingredients

537

and just being at truly inventive.

538

, I assume it's really attractive

to see your partner be creative.

539

And to do all of that, but also it's going

to be so annoying, like you said, to not

540

have any sort of divide between at work

and your marriage and personal life stuff.

541

Yeah, it's a unit.

542

Yes, I would agree.

543

First of all, it was extremely

kind of you, I would agree.

544

I think he's insanely talented.

545

Well, he has a unique perspective on food.

546

He also has a unique perspective on

success and for him success, isn't

547

like accolades or pats on the back.

548

Um, it's a culture where the people

work for us are happy and not over

549

worked and fulfilled and, and economic

stability and those things right now,

550

unfortunately, and have for a while,

the all of those are really hard.

551

You know, so, but I, I value that, that

perspective and yeah, it's, it's one

552

of those where like, we, he can, we

can have a good day and energy's good.

553

I think Islamic, man, it looks hot.

554

Yeah.

555

And then we have days where we're

just like, he's in a mood, I'm

556

in a mood and I'm like, oh, I got

to go home and look at you too.

557

You know, it's hard.

558

It's hard, but we, I will say like,

we're really, again, we're really honest

559

with each other and we just have to

like show for those conversations, but

560

not having, not having a separation is.

561

His rough.

562

Yeah.

563

Yeah.

564

I'm sure.

565

I, I don't, I don't advise going

into business with your partner.

566

Yeah, just gotta be honest.

567

Uh, you know, it's worked out well

for us, you know, but it hasn't been

568

without an immense amount of extra

work that makes an already difficult

569

business, even more challenging.

570

Yeah.

571

Yeah.

572

That makes perfect sense.

573

I mean, I think any type of

long-term relationship is difficult.

574

, uh, and it's just, there's

a lot of facets layered in.

575

Yeah, totally.

576

.

Yeah, someone is.

577

I'll just be over here talking to myself.

578

Okay.

579

I was just going to.

580

Talk about some meme.

581

So you guys ever heard of those things?

582

You guys ever heard of memes?

583

Okay, so Eric is away right now.

584

No one ever gets to ask her or

share the things that they love

585

and respect and admire about her.

586

Um, she is smart.

587

She is witty as hell.

588

Um, she's authentic.

589

She is generous in her spirit

and sharing herself abundantly.

590

She got.

591

Kick ass tastes in both food and fashion.

592

If y'all have not been to the shop down

below, I don't know what y'all are doing.

593

You're sleeping on it.

594

Get in there.

595

Unique little gifts.

596

They're charming.

597

They're cute.

598

They're thoughtful.

599

Maybe sign up to get your haircut.

600

I don't know.

601

Let's let's what I got for you right now.

602

Maybe we should take some pictures

of Erica and turn them into memes.

603

Backed.

604

That's the question.

605

Erika.

606

If you could make a meme about

your life, what would it say?

607

Hmm.

608

I wonder.

609

So many stairs, you hear

that she's coming up now.

610

So many stairs.

611

Okay, sorry.

612

I'm back.

613

You're back.

614

I just had to receive a shipment of

French skincare street from Paris.

615

Fantastic.

616

Via DHL, who apparently doesn't

know how to ring the doorbell.

617

Oh, hence old school.

618

They're old school.

619

It's an old school company.

620

It's you know, it's fine.

621

Yeah, totally fine.

622

Like I should hear it if it's

not broken solid really well,

623

we'll confirm that later, but.

624

TBD.

625

TBD.

626

Um, oh yeah.

627

Do you want to talk with farm?

628

Yeah, we can totally talk about the farms.

629

Ha.

630

I said don't ever open a restaurant with

your spouse and I'm about to do it again.

631

Yeah.

632

So, uh, you have stable house.

633

We do.

634

You are currently still kind of exploring

all the different iterations of that.

635

Yes.

636

And then in your, a bunch of.

637

So much free time y'all have

decided to partner on a new project.

638

Yeah.

639

Will you share that with us?

640

Yes, I'd be happy to.

641

It's exciting.

642

, I'm really excited about it.

643

It's taken, you know, a little bit of time

to get where we're, where we're at and a

644

little more time to get where we're going.

645

, but we have partnered with two really

incredible humans, Angelo and Kiarra

646

that have a really expansive, beautiful

property down engaged Georgia.

647

And it's fun to say gay.

648

, gay Georgia.

649

Um, and it is, I mean, there's not

much going on down there, but they

650

have a really beautiful property.

651

And, you know, the land has been in her

family for some time and Smith and I have

652

started spending a lot of time down there

and love it so much that eventually,

653

uh, we plan to relocate down there.

654

, and still have staple house, but you know,

kind of pull ourselves out of, you know,

655

the chaos of city life socially with the

kids and, you know, Our older daughter's

656

anxiety and just being out in nature

and kind of resetting that being said.

657

So we, , we're partnering on this project.

658

It's considered, I didn't know it

was going to be called a luxury

659

resort until the AJC said it

was called the luxury resort.

660

And I was like, Justin, I guess

we're opening a luxury resort, but

661

there's these four well appointed

suites that are really stunning.

662

, and you'll a book it's a two night

minimum stay and it, the price

663

includes activities, which will

just really highlight the land.

664

There's kayaking.

665

There'll.

666

B Liberty, which is with horses

and in a ring and fishing.

667

And there's nearby quail hunting at the.

668

Reddit plantation, I think is the name.

669

, and Kiarra has her own wellness company.

670

So there's consults available there.

671

, and then, you know, it has a farm

and they're building a restaurant.

672

And so eventually we'll start

like a little software thing,

673

kind of friends and family.

674

, and then the restaurant should open

to the public as well in the fall.

675

So we're looking at.

676

You know, late August and probably

677

open a little restaurant and then

it can pull from hopefully markets,

678

people from Atlanta can come down and.

679

You know, Peachtree city and all,

you know, the neighbors down the road

680

that want to come in and check it out.

681

So it'll be more akin to old to

what staple house was when we

682

opened and sort of at the heart of.

683

You know that when things were

booming and wild and crazy around.

684

2016 to 2018.

685

I love that season of stable house.

686

So I am personally very excited for this.

687

And it sounds kind of like

a mini Blackberry farms.

688

Is that kind of a part of the inspo?

689

No.

690

I mean, the thing with block, it's not.

691

And back then I can say it

was certainly because I've

692

never been to Blackberry farm.

693

So I have no inspiration.

694

Pull from there.

695

Uh, it's outside my

means, but maybe one day.

696

It's great.

697

Yeah.

698

I hear from people that can go there.

699

That it's really beautiful.

700

Like a sponsor us.

701

Yeah.

702

Right.

703

We'll come and just

sit and talk to people.

704

Yeah.

705

All your food.

706

Yeah.

707

So I actually we'd try to get Smith to

be a guest chef there a long time ago.

708

I'm like, It's the only way we're

going to go is if you go cook there.

709

So.

710

Yeah, get to it, but

that didn't materialize.

711

, yeah, so the, I do, I love

that season of staple house.

712

Oh, Blackberry.

713

No, I think.

714

I've never been.

715

I hear it's beautiful.

716

It looks amazing.

717

And I think they're, they are much

more of an expansive operation.

718

Okay.

719

This is small, like maximum past

year and I was like 10 people.

720

It's just like these four suites

intended for, you know, two

721

people there's three, one bedroom

suites and one, two bedroom suite.

722

, a three-bedroom will follow, you

know, sometime later next year.

723

And, , but no, it's really, , the

one thing is like not having.

724

Too much heavy foot traffic and

that really honoring the land.

725

And what the land can provide for

us, , by way of, uh, an experience is

726

sort of mind, body and spirit, right?

727

Everything's sort of thoughtfully

curated, , so that you can connect and

728

in that regard, so we're disconnect or

disconnect, truly disconnect, right?

729

There's no TVs in the suites.

730

Um, so yeah.

731

I mean, is there a wifi?

732

There is wifi.

733

Okay.

734

Your tablet.

735

You can bring your computer.

736

Um, but yeah, just the chance to just

be kind of immersive in nature and.

737

Yeah.

738

That's what I need to do.

739

I need to be a guest at the, at the

facility that I'm, uh, helping open.

740

I mean, I would think that it

would be, uh, educational for you

741

to experience it from the eyes

of the consumer, therefore death.

742

While we tried, we tried to do like a

little R and D by going out to a single

743

thread , outside of San Francisco.

744

And Healdsburg.

745

And it was the first time that Smith

and I were to have been away from the

746

kids in two years, two and a half year.

747

I mean, since pandemic

and tell us what happened.

748

, my daughter went to the ER.

749

She and spent nine days at Choa.

750

So that was fine.

751

I was like, oh, It's selfish of her.

752

I know.

753

Right.

754

I tell I'm telling you, I

told you, Kevin kids is hard.

755

I didn't even get to go on my vacation.

756

No.

757

Um, did you get on the flight?

758

Like did you get there

and have to turn around?

759

So, this is what happened.

760

She wasn't.

761

I, and I had, it was like

that mom guilt moment too.

762

Right.

763

It was more like one time.

764

I was like, I'm going to choose me

because I think you're safe and okay.

765

And emotionally you want me here, but

like, if you're safe, Even if I'm not

766

entirely sure what's going on with your

health, but no, my in-laws who are like

767

unicorns were in town and had the girls.

768

Lillian, her eye was swollen.

769

She'd been complaining about it

since the day before and woke up and

770

it was swollen and we made a deal.

771

I was like, you're going to go to

the pediatrician with your grandma.

772

Yeah, doctor says, okay, I'll already be

at the airport and hopes that I can get

773

on this plane and go to San Francisco.

774

Um, the first report was

she has a sinus infection.

775

Sean antibiotics, unless it.

776

You know, it gets worse.

777

Like.

778

The shit kick in.

779

, and so we flew all the way there,

hour and 45 minutes up to Healdsburg.

780

We had dinner.

781

And then I got a call at 5:00 AM, San

Francisco time, which is, you know,

782

8:00 AM, Atlanta time that the in.

783

And photos that the infection

was spreading to her face.

784

And so then it was just a matter of.

785

Changing our flight back.

786

So I had, I had dinner.

787

Did you consider not coming back?

788

No, no.

789

No.

790

Cause we knew we knew it was bad.

791

Like I, yeah, there.

792

If it was like, uh, she gonna.

793

Okay, we've got this under control, but

orbital cellulitis is a really scary

794

thing because it can do with the time.

795

That's what it was.

796

We had an idea, friend of mine, that's

a nurse had come over to the house.

797

I was like, Hey, can you pop over?

798

Check it out.

799

You know, and she got to the

house and was like, she had

800

to go back to the doctor now.

801

So no sooner did they drive

her back to the doctor?

802

The pediatrician walked in and

looked at her and was like, you

803

need to go to cello right now.

804

Oh my God.

805

So they drove to Choa.

806

So by the time I then took

an hour and a half lift.

807

Crying in the backseat flew back.

808

I will say we did get

to fly back first class.

809

Which meant free drinks for mom.

810

So Smith is like, I was

like, you're the driver?

811

I'm the drinker.

812

We'll get to the hospital.

813

I'm.

814

Gonna, you know, take the edge off.

815

So.

816

, by the time we got to Choa, she'd

already been through a CT scan,

817

had an IB and was in her hospital

room getting IV antibiotics.

818

And that was the beginning

of a nine day stay.

819

So it was wild, right?

820

Like you can't make that shit up.

821

You can write, like, you know,

you have some astonishing glee,

822

inconvenient things happen to you.

823

It's called life.

824

It's called my life.

825

Right.

826

I feel like my life is a

series of unfortunate events.

827

But like I take with like, you

know, a bit of humor and, you know,

828

Can I share one, unfortunately.

829

Oh, my God.

830

I already know where we're going.

831

No, this shit is definitely unfortunate.

832

She's about to put me on blast.

833

This is why you get.

834

This is why I get sweaty palms and

get a feel vulnerable and exposed.

835

Mom's spaghetti.

836

Yeah.

837

All right.

838

Let's see.

839

Let's do it, Erica.

840

Get after it.

841

Okay.

842

So this is you're gonna

give some backstory, right?

843

Okay.

844

Okay.

845

Um, the story, doesn't start with carob.

846

Starts with care is

former sister-in-law who?

847

Uh, years ago.

848

So bad.

849

At the first salon that I worked at.

850

Uh, she had an appointment.

851

And she used our restroom.

852

And clogged artery wallet.

853

And she came out and was like, um,

I think there's a concentrated,

854

like, I don't know what to do.

855

And at the time I was like 22.

856

I was like, oh, I'm dating a plumber.

857

Like I got this.

858

And I went in and I just

get flushed one more time.

859

Oh, dear God.

860

Her.

861

Shit.

862

I'm like running down the hallway

with so bad, but I was busy that day.

863

So I like got her manager.

864

I'm like, can you handle this?

865

RO so gross.

866

I had never had that happen before.

867

It was embarrassing

for everybody involved.

868

She sent an apology card to everybody.

869

The next week.

870

Very thoughtful.

871

It was very thoughtful.

872

That's nice.

873

Um, yes.

874

Yes.

875

And so then fast forward, , uh,

five to six to seven to eight years.

876

Uh, your mom Kira.

877

And with me for an appointment.

878

What's up, mom.

879

, I love Kara's mom.

880

She's the coolest, she's pretty rad.

881

Shout out doughy.

882

, so she had an appoint

with me and she, yeah.

883

Clogged my toilet.

884

And I'm like, damn, like, this is insane.

885

Okay.

886

How many were real quick?

887

How many other patrons.

888

We might, none never, literally.

889

Never ever.

890

We're down.

891

We're down to two clog toilets.

892

Clog it up.

893

Did, was it easily unclogged?

894

Yes.

895

It was no problem.

896

Just flush.

897

I just.

898

I channeled my plumber boyfriend and

I just flashed and it worked out.

899

, so fast forward another

year or two here comes Kara.

900

Kara for an appointment.

901

She's got a head full of foils.

902

And she comes out and she's like,

Erica, do you have a plunger?

903

And I was like, no.

904

And she's like, what?

905

I'm like, no, like I've

never needed one here.

906

Clearly though she needed one.

907

Right?

908

Okay.

909

The doughy should have been the warning.

910

I, yeah, I agree.

911

I should have went and bought one then.

912

I just hadn't ever had that happen.

913

Uh, let alone a fucking trio

from the same fucking family.

914

Kara with foils and your hair

drove to target to buy a plunger.

915

Yup.

916

And on the plunger wrote a note.

917

Wait a minute.

918

No, no, no.

919

I ran home to get a plunger.

920

And brought it back because I

wouldn't have been able to write

921

on the plunger and then use it.

922

So I went home.

923

Okay.

924

That's.

925

I'm remembering now.

926

Okay.

927

Got the plunger.

928

Came back and took care

of my shit, literally.

929

And then I felt like.

930

Clearly Eric has ill-equipped.

931

Our family.

932

So as a preventative measure, I got her.

933

A plunger and I wrapped an Abe

was in plastic because it was new.

934

And I just wrote a little love

though, something to the effect of

935

like for when you host the Heidinger.

936

Here we are.

937

You know what I did not do?

938

What is send you a thank you letter?

939

Well, I like, um, That

felt, it feels performative.

940

A plunger was way more useful cause you

can't unclog a toilet with an envelope.

941

Oh,

942

You can drive.

943

Oh, my God.

944

Um, That was years ago and

never pooped here since.

945

Got your band.

946

I swear to God it's like in the

past, anybody with your last

947

name would just go to taco bell.

948

And then comfort.

949

I say, maybe it's just the,

it's the plumbing, right?

950

There's just so much hair wash downs.

951

But then that would be more

applicable to other people having

952

a similar shared experience.

953

That is correct.

954

So, yeah.

955

, it took.

956

But I noticed somebody undid the

wrapping cause I just left it.

957

I never opened it.

958

Yeah.

959

And I just saw that had

been taken out of that.

960

The love letter is still on there.

961

Yeah.

962

Somebody else pooped in your, uh, in

your bathroom, they did, they did.

963

Embarrassing story, Erica.

964

Thank you.

965

You're so welcome.

966

, I also think it's hilarious though.

967

I mean, I mean, really what are the odds?

968

What's wrong with us.

969

I don't know.

970

Yeah.

971

I don't know either.

972

How much fiber.

973

It's not like we all

eat together every time.

974

Right.

975

We're all breaking bread together

and then coming to get our haircut.

976

Dear God.

977

Oh man.

978

Yeah.

979

Um,

980

That's great.

981

How do we move on from that?

982

Like where do you go from there?

983

Should we talk about cancer.

984

Oh, God.

985

I mean, speaking of things that suck.

986

Yeah.

987

Or yeah.

988

Or things that are shitty.

989

Yeah.

990

Totally shitty.

991

There it is right.

992

With your brother, the first person

close to you that you look, was that

993

your first close cancer experience?

994

Yeah.

995

Okay.

996

Yeah.

997

What about you?

998

Um, uh, yeah, that was my first, like

I had had a couple clients who passed

999

away, but I wasn't, , I'm nowhere near

as intimately involved in the process.

00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:16,729

As I was with your family.

00:37:16,729 --> 00:37:16,969

Yeah.

00:37:17,069 --> 00:37:20,669

, and then since then, Kara

and I both have had younger.

00:37:21,029 --> 00:37:23,159

Your friends pass away from.

00:37:23,699 --> 00:37:24,569

Nevermind all cancer.

00:37:24,659 --> 00:37:24,749

Yeah.

00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:30,089

I feel like that has permanently

kind of rewired my neurochemistry

00:37:30,089 --> 00:37:30,959

for how I view life.

00:37:30,989 --> 00:37:32,009

Does that resonate with you?

00:37:32,009 --> 00:37:32,729

A hundred percent?

00:37:32,789 --> 00:37:33,239

Yeah.

00:37:33,389 --> 00:37:36,899

I feel like I have a greater

awareness of the fragility.

00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:38,999

Um, but also the beauty, right?

00:37:38,999 --> 00:37:42,089

So like, while I joke, and I'm really

honest about how hard it is being like

00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:48,239

a mom or married to, you know, my chef

husband, like I'm also so grateful.

00:37:48,269 --> 00:37:48,539

Yeah.

00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:49,889

You know, like I'm grateful.

00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:51,509

Uh, for those things and it, yeah.

00:37:51,569 --> 00:37:54,629

And it, the thing about cancer

or the thing about the experience

00:37:54,629 --> 00:37:57,989

with my brother, Is, you know,

life wasn't easy for us when we

00:37:58,019 --> 00:37:59,279

were a little, like, life is hard.

00:37:59,669 --> 00:38:04,709

And I always said to myself that no

matter how hard my life is, I'll be okay

00:38:04,709 --> 00:38:09,479

because I have my family and I truly

had never created a space that allowed

00:38:09,479 --> 00:38:11,549

me to look at my life any differently.

00:38:11,879 --> 00:38:16,109

So when Ryan was diagnosed,

it was shit shattered.

00:38:16,259 --> 00:38:21,059

Like shattered my world in a way that

I was like, this is unfathomable.

00:38:21,059 --> 00:38:22,409

This is unfair.

00:38:22,439 --> 00:38:22,769

Right.

00:38:22,769 --> 00:38:26,999

And I did all of the emotions of

like being angry and just pissed

00:38:26,999 --> 00:38:29,129

at the world and fuck cancer.

00:38:29,129 --> 00:38:30,449

And like all those things, right?

00:38:30,449 --> 00:38:34,619

Like, , Yeah, but the, the journey also

taught, taught us a lot, brought the

00:38:34,619 --> 00:38:38,219

fragility of life and the beauty of it

and others, you know, and, and about

00:38:38,249 --> 00:38:40,079

being present, that's really hard to do.

00:38:40,289 --> 00:38:40,859

Absolutely.

00:38:40,859 --> 00:38:41,279

You know?

00:38:41,429 --> 00:38:43,019

, so yeah, that's like being

in your chair, right?

00:38:43,019 --> 00:38:44,969

It's like that moment you're

just present in the moment.

00:38:44,999 --> 00:38:45,359

My whole.

00:38:45,539 --> 00:38:46,739

Self-care moment, but yeah.

00:38:47,669 --> 00:38:48,059

Yeah.

00:38:48,149 --> 00:38:48,509

Cancer.

00:38:48,509 --> 00:38:49,679

I mean, cancer is unreal.

00:38:49,779 --> 00:38:51,969

, how long after my brother

passed, did you lose?

00:38:52,449 --> 00:38:53,439

Someone else to cancer.

00:38:53,686 --> 00:38:54,676

It was three or four years.

00:38:54,736 --> 00:38:55,966

Yeah, it was an ex-boyfriend of mine.

00:38:56,086 --> 00:38:56,266

Yeah.

00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:59,106

, and that just came on so unexpectedly.

00:38:59,106 --> 00:38:59,376

Yeah.

00:39:00,216 --> 00:39:00,786

Quick.

00:39:01,066 --> 00:39:01,996

, but it was interesting.

00:39:02,536 --> 00:39:04,726

, When your brother was diagnosed and

I don't know, you probably know the

00:39:04,726 --> 00:39:09,976

story, but if not, , the day that your

brother was diagnosed was December.

00:39:10,636 --> 00:39:14,476

20 December 12th, December 12th,

00:39:14,476 --> 00:39:16,306

00:39:16,366 --> 00:39:17,026

The end of the year.

00:39:17,236 --> 00:39:19,936

And I remember this because a that's wild.

00:39:19,996 --> 00:39:24,436

But my ex fiance and I had,

uh, dinner plans with your

00:39:24,436 --> 00:39:25,786

brother and his wife that night.

00:39:26,176 --> 00:39:29,566

And so, uh, his wife had

called my fiance and was like,

00:39:29,566 --> 00:39:30,826

Hey, we need to like, cancel.

00:39:31,256 --> 00:39:35,096

, and I remember after work, he like broke

the news to me and he was like, Hey,

00:39:35,096 --> 00:39:36,806

it's like bad news, like gallbladder.

00:39:36,806 --> 00:39:38,126

And I was like, oh my God, that's great.

00:39:38,126 --> 00:39:39,956

Like, we don't need a gallbladder,

they can just take it out.

00:39:39,956 --> 00:39:41,756

And he was like, So here's the deal.

00:39:41,996 --> 00:39:43,256

Maybe not so much.

00:39:43,286 --> 00:39:43,556

Yeah.

00:39:44,186 --> 00:39:47,426

And that always just stuck in me of

like, oh my God, like the Mayan calendar

00:39:47,426 --> 00:39:50,186

thing, I'm like, it wasn't the end of

the world for everyone, but it was the

00:39:50,186 --> 00:39:52,196

end of the world as it existed for.

00:39:52,436 --> 00:39:53,246

For your world.

00:39:54,536 --> 00:39:55,496

So wild.

00:39:55,586 --> 00:39:55,826

Yeah.

00:39:56,096 --> 00:40:00,776

, I remember, you know, everybody rallied

together and put together a team, Heidi.

00:40:00,776 --> 00:40:01,196

Yeah.

00:40:01,526 --> 00:40:04,376

Charity event, which kind of

spawned the giving kitchen now.

00:40:04,706 --> 00:40:08,196

, but I remember a couple of people being

like, oh, no, that's like his book is

00:40:08,196 --> 00:40:10,116

written and I was like, so optimistic.

00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:11,616

And I was like, no, we.

00:40:11,916 --> 00:40:14,046

Uh, nothing is done until it's done.

00:40:14,136 --> 00:40:15,666

And I was wildly optimistic.

00:40:15,666 --> 00:40:17,646

And then of course, He passed.

00:40:17,676 --> 00:40:17,886

Yeah.

00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:23,616

And so when my ex was diagnosed

and it was stage four lung cancer.

00:40:24,126 --> 00:40:28,506

I was disappointed in myself

that my response was a lot more

00:40:28,986 --> 00:40:32,856

pessimistic and I was just like,

oh, like, he's going to die.

00:40:33,096 --> 00:40:33,456

Yeah.

00:40:33,516 --> 00:40:37,156

He made a comment to me once, , kind of

midway through treatment, like maybe four

00:40:37,156 --> 00:40:39,166

or five months into his, into his chemo.

00:40:39,796 --> 00:40:42,916

And he, he said, now that I

know I'm going to be okay.

00:40:43,306 --> 00:40:45,496

And I remember looking

at him and thinking.

00:40:46,366 --> 00:40:48,736

Oh, you don't realize the severity.

00:40:48,796 --> 00:40:49,426

Yeah.

00:40:49,426 --> 00:40:49,786

Yeah.

00:40:49,966 --> 00:40:54,156

And . It was fascinating to observe having

watched how your brother responded to it.

00:40:54,186 --> 00:40:55,806

Totally watched how he responded to it.

00:40:56,106 --> 00:40:59,946

But Ryan was, uh, so.

00:41:00,816 --> 00:41:02,346

Uh, what's the best word for it?

00:41:02,346 --> 00:41:04,626

I mean, He was not disillusioned.

00:41:04,776 --> 00:41:06,786

No, I think that he was certainly.

00:41:07,626 --> 00:41:08,226

He was a realist.

00:41:08,226 --> 00:41:11,046

He was hoping for a miracle,

but he was prepared to die.

00:41:11,076 --> 00:41:11,376

Yeah.

00:41:12,486 --> 00:41:12,906

I agree.

00:41:12,996 --> 00:41:13,356

Yeah.

00:41:13,386 --> 00:41:18,336

And I think seeing somebody, I mean, to

the day that his name was Josh to the day

00:41:18,336 --> 00:41:21,846

that he passed away, I think he probably

was surprised that he died because he

00:41:21,846 --> 00:41:24,096

just refused to accept what was happening.

00:41:24,546 --> 00:41:28,746

And he missed out and we missed out

on so many important conversations

00:41:28,746 --> 00:41:32,526

and moments and things together,

and he was just, he was angry and he

00:41:32,526 --> 00:41:36,636

was unwilling to, uh, , just accept

the realities of what was happening.

00:41:36,636 --> 00:41:36,726

Yeah.

00:41:37,026 --> 00:41:40,746

And so I think having such those two

experiences, but having them so different.

00:41:41,046 --> 00:41:42,426

Just like fucked me up.

00:41:42,766 --> 00:41:43,666

, it's wild.

00:41:43,696 --> 00:41:47,896

It's just wild to see how people re

react when they get that type of news.

00:41:47,926 --> 00:41:48,346

Yeah.

00:41:48,466 --> 00:41:49,606

Um, I agree.

00:41:49,666 --> 00:41:51,886

I think I had a similar

experience with my friend, Julie.

00:41:51,916 --> 00:41:52,276

Yeah.

00:41:52,336 --> 00:41:55,006

, and Julie was one of the first people I'd

met when I moved to Atlanta in oh nine.

00:41:55,006 --> 00:41:58,276

And while we weren't everyday friends

of like texting, grab a drink after

00:41:58,276 --> 00:42:01,336

work all the time, we were like the

show up for your major life events.

00:42:01,336 --> 00:42:01,636

Right?

00:42:01,666 --> 00:42:01,846

Like.

00:42:02,056 --> 00:42:02,746

It was amazing.

00:42:02,806 --> 00:42:03,046

Yeah.

00:42:03,736 --> 00:42:07,156

Witty and dry and kind of

dark and a little bitchy.

00:42:07,996 --> 00:42:08,956

Really sassy.

00:42:08,956 --> 00:42:09,316

Yeah.

00:42:09,466 --> 00:42:11,266

She was like, and again, authentic.

00:42:11,296 --> 00:42:12,436

And she wasn't for everyone.

00:42:12,466 --> 00:42:12,646

Correct.

00:42:13,306 --> 00:42:16,576

Like she had, you had to have a specific

taste for Julie to be your tastes.

00:42:16,636 --> 00:42:18,166

Um, but.

00:42:18,676 --> 00:42:21,196

Again, that's that authenticity

that I respected, even if

00:42:21,196 --> 00:42:22,276

her and I even buttheads.

00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:26,416

I remember one time in Quatrano

was like, I need you to, to go.

00:42:26,416 --> 00:42:28,096

We were managing two

different restaurants.

00:42:28,366 --> 00:42:30,646

Should I need you to, to

go get a pedicure together.

00:42:30,886 --> 00:42:31,366

And she did.

00:42:31,366 --> 00:42:32,686

She sent us to get a pedicure.

00:42:32,926 --> 00:42:35,896

So that Julia and I, this was early

on in our business relationship.

00:42:36,146 --> 00:42:37,496

, and then we just kept

showing up for each other.

00:42:37,496 --> 00:42:39,146

And I was there when she got

married and I was there when she

00:42:39,146 --> 00:42:42,356

got divorced and I was there when

she got diagnosed with cancer and.

00:42:43,016 --> 00:42:47,216

You know, the one thing is I've found

that sometimes people hesitate to tell

00:42:47,216 --> 00:42:49,856

me bad news because they're worried.

00:42:50,306 --> 00:42:53,696

They don't want to cause me pain

because I've been through it.

00:42:54,036 --> 00:42:57,386

, another former coworker of

mine, , who I worked with.

00:42:57,386 --> 00:42:57,956

It, it.

00:42:58,526 --> 00:42:59,066

Avatar.

00:42:59,066 --> 00:43:00,446

And I worked with her, her.

00:43:00,926 --> 00:43:03,326

Partner at buck Emilia was

recently diagnosed with cancer.

00:43:03,696 --> 00:43:06,276

, she said, I thought about you

so much during this process.

00:43:06,546 --> 00:43:08,466

I just, I didn't want to burden you.

00:43:08,466 --> 00:43:10,356

And I was like, it's not, I'm here for it.

00:43:10,356 --> 00:43:13,536

And I find that I can show up in a

different capacity for people now.

00:43:13,986 --> 00:43:15,816

They're going through really hard stuff.

00:43:15,846 --> 00:43:18,396

Like, you know, I'm, I'm an impasse.

00:43:18,396 --> 00:43:19,776

So I feel so much of it.

00:43:20,046 --> 00:43:23,406

But I'm also, I think you and I

talked about this, like I almost

00:43:23,406 --> 00:43:24,786

feel like I could do hospice work.

00:43:24,816 --> 00:43:25,206

Yes.

00:43:25,926 --> 00:43:30,606

I can hold space for someone to

say, like, you can be whatever

00:43:30,606 --> 00:43:31,506

it is you're going through.

00:43:31,506 --> 00:43:32,886

I'll show up for that conversation.

00:43:33,066 --> 00:43:33,576

Hold space.

00:43:33,966 --> 00:43:35,676

And I felt like when Julie was dying.

00:43:36,336 --> 00:43:37,866

She had a hard time.

00:43:38,286 --> 00:43:40,806

Acknowledging it, she fought and

fought and fought, fought, same thing.

00:43:40,806 --> 00:43:42,156

She was like, I'm going to

beat, I'm going to beat it.

00:43:42,156 --> 00:43:43,206

And like, There were hard times.

00:43:43,596 --> 00:43:47,676

And even at the end, I don't

think she fully accepted.

00:43:47,886 --> 00:43:48,786

She was dying.

00:43:49,056 --> 00:43:51,906

And I think that there were times

where one time she was in it, she

00:43:51,906 --> 00:43:54,886

said, she texted me and said, , how

do I say goodbye to the ocean?

00:43:54,916 --> 00:43:56,356

Because water was like her thing.

00:43:56,956 --> 00:43:58,456

And I said, I don't think that you do.

00:43:58,456 --> 00:44:03,346

I think that you, you allow the water,

like in G that energy and, and to be yours

00:44:03,346 --> 00:44:06,286

and to show the energy and eventually

you become one with the water, right?

00:44:06,286 --> 00:44:10,456

Like, you know, And, but even then

it was just like lightly contemplated

00:44:10,636 --> 00:44:15,276

bits, but not a deep dive into, and I

think, you know, the unique thing with

00:44:15,276 --> 00:44:17,436

my brother is through his journaling.

00:44:18,036 --> 00:44:21,636

He talked about that, like

he talked about, you know, he

00:44:21,636 --> 00:44:24,876

reminisced and he was grateful for

the time he'd had with his wife.

00:44:24,876 --> 00:44:28,746

And he worried about my mom and, you

know, just, he was real authentic

00:44:28,746 --> 00:44:30,276

and he was, you know, and he even.

00:44:31,116 --> 00:44:35,136

He showed that he fought, but

that he was also practical.

00:44:35,166 --> 00:44:35,706

Yes.

00:44:35,766 --> 00:44:37,806

You know, and I think that allowed.

00:44:38,256 --> 00:44:42,366

That practical element allowed

him to have an ease and peace

00:44:42,366 --> 00:44:43,986

of mind and an acceptance.

00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:48,546

But the other part allowed him to

like keep pushing, to keep, you

00:44:48,546 --> 00:44:51,516

know, he challenged himself to

like really endure the chemo and

00:44:51,516 --> 00:44:53,256

did, even though he felt like shit.

00:44:53,256 --> 00:44:56,406

And, and also to show people

that he was a fighter, right.

00:44:56,436 --> 00:44:58,206

That he had the strength in him to do it.

00:44:58,606 --> 00:45:01,696

, but yeah, the contrast of those

experiences, wild, which, like I

00:45:01,696 --> 00:45:04,786

said, I think because we both had

the shared experience of losing

00:45:04,786 --> 00:45:06,676

my brother, but then our own.

00:45:06,736 --> 00:45:09,646

You know, situations that were vastly

different the second time around.

00:45:10,196 --> 00:45:13,286

, was the, you know, I think

hospice is beautiful work.

00:45:13,316 --> 00:45:16,826

I think some of that can show up

at the end of life and, you know,

00:45:17,126 --> 00:45:18,986

Make someone feel safe or seen?

00:45:19,106 --> 00:45:19,376

Yeah.

00:45:19,436 --> 00:45:19,556

I'm.

00:45:19,736 --> 00:45:22,436

And valued or appreciated

is, is a real gift.

00:45:22,466 --> 00:45:23,876

I completely agree.

00:45:23,936 --> 00:45:27,446

And I've mentioned on multiple episodes

of this, that being a death doula

00:45:27,476 --> 00:45:32,456

is something that I've always been,

Interested in and kind of called towards,

00:45:32,716 --> 00:45:37,066

, and I, I mean, prior, your brother was

the first person close to me that, , I

00:45:37,066 --> 00:45:40,276

watched passed away from cancer, but

I've had lots of other people die.

00:45:40,336 --> 00:45:42,346

Before that other things totally.

00:45:42,676 --> 00:45:45,526

And so it was just kind of this thing

that's been ever since I was in high

00:45:45,526 --> 00:45:48,316

school, , uh, like present in my life.

00:45:48,706 --> 00:45:52,816

And I think that a lot of people it's like

simultaneously wonderful that they haven't

00:45:52,816 --> 00:45:57,526

had that experience, but if they haven't,

when it happens, they're so ill-equipped,

00:45:57,886 --> 00:45:59,716

and just kind of shocked and stunned.

00:45:59,716 --> 00:46:03,316

And it's like, how, w how do you even

begin to process or approach that.

00:46:04,616 --> 00:46:07,676

, And yeah, I think that it's when

you are that empathetic and you

00:46:07,676 --> 00:46:10,496

can just kind of feel everything

that's happening in these dynamics.

00:46:10,496 --> 00:46:13,886

Being able to help people

through that transition.

00:46:14,186 --> 00:46:15,896

I think would be just

like the highest honor.

00:46:15,926 --> 00:46:16,856

Yeah, I would agree.

00:46:16,886 --> 00:46:18,116

I think it's really noble work.

00:46:18,146 --> 00:46:18,596

Yeah.

00:46:18,716 --> 00:46:21,926

Is it something you could see

as like a career 3.0 situation?

00:46:21,986 --> 00:46:23,576

No, I don't ever want to work again.

00:46:25,586 --> 00:46:26,336

I actually.

00:46:26,846 --> 00:46:30,616

I know I actually had, I was, , hanging

out with my friends over at Cronulla

00:46:30,616 --> 00:46:32,146

coffee, shop down from staple house.

00:46:32,146 --> 00:46:33,646

Cause it's one of my safe places.

00:46:33,676 --> 00:46:34,096

Love it.

00:46:34,096 --> 00:46:36,676

There love them, love their

product of their energy, love