Shownotes
Our minds run patterns we rarely question, until we learn where they come from. Heart transplant survivor and relationship coach Gaylen Wilson joins host Swati to explore how understanding the primal brain can change how we respond to life.
Gaylen shares the Monument Method, a simple practice he and his wife Heather use to interrupt conflict before it escalates, and how the same principle helped him overcome decades of addiction and fear.
ABOUT THE GUEST:
Gaylen Wilson is a heart transplant survivor, certified relationship coach, and founder of the Monument Method Institute. He is the author of The Monument Method series and the Monument Hearts books, and has been sober for 20 years.
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
- Recognize when your primal brain, not your logical brain, is running the show.
- Agree on a shared sacred word with a partner to pause conflict before it escalates.
- Eye contact can signal safety to the nervous system and calm fight-or-flight fast.
- Repair a pattern early and often; the best repairs are the ones you never need to make.
CONNECT WITH THE GUEST:
Website: monumentmethodinstitute.com
Books available on Amazon: The Monument Method series, Monument Hearts, and the Ready dating series
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
[00:00] Welcome to Mind Over Matter (approx.)
[02:00] A Heart Transplant and a Promise to Pay It Forward (approx.)
[06:00] Attachment Theory and Why Couples Fight (approx.)
[11:00] The Monument Method: Protecting the Bond (approx.)
[17:00] The Sanctuary Bond and Micro Moments of Connection (approx.)
[23:00] Overcoming the Primal Brain: Addiction and Fear (approx.)
[27:00] Where to Find Gaylen and His Books (approx.)
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Transcripts
00:00:06 Swati: We spend so much of our lives thinking that the way our mind works is just the way we are wired. We get stuck in certain thoughts, repeat the same patterns, and sometimes start believing this is just who I am. But what if it doesn't have to stay that way? What if the patterns we carry can actually change? Not by forcing ourselves to think differently, but by understanding where those patterns come from and learning how to work with them.
00:00:43 Swati: Welcome, dear listeners, to mind over matter. I am Swathi, and this is where we talk about the psychology behind resilience, personal growth, and the ways we can actually change how we think, feel, and respond to lights. Today I am joined by Galen a Wilson. Galen, it's such a pleasure to have you with us. So before we begin.
00:01:14 Gaylen Wilson: It's my pleasure to be here. It's such an honor.
00:01:18 Swati: Yeah. So before we begin, I would love for our listeners to get to know you a little better. So can you introduce yourself and share a little about your journey and the work you do?
00:01:31 Gaylen Wilson: Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm, uh, I am today is my seventieth birthday. And, uh, I, I, uh, I had a heart transplant eight years ago that has given me another twenty plus years with my soulmate. And so I, I feel so grateful for that. And, uh, that, um, that generated this deep need in me to pay that forward. And so one of the ways I did that was, uh, um, to, uh, I have administrated the two largest Facebook groups for erectile dysfunction for the last five years. And, uh, I also got Heather and I into, of course, to become certified thriving relationship coaches. Uh, so we could, uh, we could help others have the joy that we have.
00:02:27 Swati: It's really good to have you here. So let's start with the idea of changing the way we think, because I think there are a lot of misconceptions around that.
00:02:40 Gaylen Wilson: Right? And, and this is amazingly good for my lane because like I say, I had this insane need to pay the blessing forward for my heart transplant. And so I got Heather and I into, into that thriving relationship coaching, um, program. And the very first book we read was Hold Me Tight by doctor Sue Johnson. And she talked, uh, in it, she talked about her attachment theory and her attachment theory is, is that we were bred through thousands of years of prehistoric evolution to have an instinct for a strong attachment to our mates, that those that didn't have that instinct back in prehistoric times didn't survive and their offspring didn't survive. So it got brought forth into modern man as an instinct that's just as strong as our need for food or our need for water. And so then she went on to say that most of the fights we get into are not about what we're fighting about, but about the fact that that attachment instinct has detected a threat to the attachment and has thrown our bodies into fight or flight mode. And so you get both parties in a in a relationship and fight or flight mode, the logical brain leaves the building and leaves what I call the lizard brains in control. And the lizard brain say mean thing to mean things to each other and things that are hard to take back later. And, and they basically see each other as the enemy of that bond. And so they, they're, you know, they're fighting each other. They see each other as the enemy. And so if a couple stays in that fight or flight, often it starts doing emotional system damage. Your, your emotional system starts feeling less safe with your partner. And I always say there's no sexual desire without emotional system safety, especially in women, but also in men. And so if a couple stays there often and doesn't do the repair work necessary to repair that damage, the damage just gets worse and worse and worse over the years, weeks and months and years to where you can get five years down the road in a in a marriage, and you have a couple that say they still love each other, but there's absolutely no intimacy happening at all because their nervous systems are so damaged that the desire for each other just isn't there anymore. And so Heather and I, once I learned that I, I, I went to Heather and I said, okay, how do we stop triggering each other's attachment instinct? Uh, you know, because as much as, as a, we've had an amazing twenty we're, we're about to be together twenty four years in September with this is the twenty fourth year since we met and we've had an amazing relationship all that time, even through the heart failure time when a normal, uh, a lot of couples in those long term. I was sick for three and a half years. Poor Heather had to watch me dying in front of her eyes for three and a half years before I got the transplant. And. And that's where a lot of couples will. The relationship just crumbles. Um, and so, but we always had a, we, we actually learned to cling to each other more during that time and came out of the other end of it with a stronger bond. Um, and so, but we still get into fights just like everybody, uh, we see as humans, we seem to be wired to fight each other. And so, um, and, and this fits so good with your mind over matter because we are wired to fight each other, but there's a way to stop it. And so, uh, Heather and I believe we're building this big, beautiful marble monument to our relationship and each kind word or loving gesture, or especially with. When you make love with presents and eye gazing, it. It builds onto that monument. But each cruel word or cold shoulder or fight that you get into is like taking a hammer and chisel to your monument. And so, um, so we gave each other, we decided we wanted to fiercely protect that monument. The Monument Method Institute motto is fiercely protect the monument. And so you do that by making the monument more important than your ego and more important than winning a fight, because nobody wins those fights anyway. And if you win the fight, then you damage the monument. So you haven't done any, you haven't won anything. And so, um, we gave each other permission to start calling each other out when we were using tone. That wasn't necessary, you know, honey, did you really need to say that that way? And so that helped. That calmed us down and made us closer and helped our relationship. But we were still getting into fights and still getting in fight or flight mode. And so I, I got to thinking further. I says, okay, how do we stop getting in fight or flight mode altogether? Where's the emergency brake on fight or flight mode? And so that's when I came up with the idea that really doesn't exist in the relationship therapy world today is that we, during a time of sanity, when the logical brain was in the building, we made an agreement and we gave each other a sacred word. And ours is monument. So anytime either one of us sees us heading towards the monument with a hammer and chisel, the other one can call monument. And that does two things. First of all, it reminds us that our monument is more important than the fight that we're getting ready to get into. And the second thing is I called it a sacred word, because we made a sacred vow that no matter how mad we were, the fight stopped right there. And. But you don't separate when you when you stop the fight. Because if you do that and you come back together, uh, you're going to be right back where you are headed back into that fight again. Uh, you know, the only reason you would separate is if you let it go too far and you were both in fight or flight mode and ready to kill each other, then you, you, you need to separate and calm down. But but if you start, if you stop it right when the fight starts, then you can. We. What we discovered to keep ourselves completely out of fight or flight mode at all, all together is when we call monument, we turn towards each other. We come together and embrace each other's arms and gaze lovingly into each other's eyes and patch that little spot on the monument that we just chipped out. And so the science behind that is, is that when you gaze into your lover's eyes, it goes into that primal brain and tells that primal brain your attachment is safe. You can stand down. Your attachment is not in danger. And so it does. It takes the body back out of fight or flight mode. The logical brain returns to the building and you can logically discuss what it was you were getting ready to have a big fight about. And so that's what we call the monument method. And, and so as you practice this, and it does take practice, like I said, we seem to be wired to fight. But as you practice it, pretty soon the little fights just disappear. Because as soon as one of you says something that would have started a fight, the other one's saying, monument, you're coming together and repairing before there's any damage. So I like to say there's the best kind of repairs, ones you don't have to make because you're you're coming back and repairing before the damage happens. But even the big fights, the ones you used to be mad at each other for a day and a half for with us now it's over like five to ten minutes because one of us says, say, wait a minute, what are we doing to our monument? And coming back together and monument and and making that repair and, and restoring that bond. And so as you practice it and you do that often and, and, you know, sometimes during the early days, we were doing it several times a day. Uh, and so as you do it, your nervous system starts to heal from all that damage that has been done over the months and years. And so as your nervous system heals, it starts feeling safer and safer with your partner. And remember what I said a while ago. There's no sexual desire without nervous system safety. So as you repair that nervous system. Safety that gives desire a room to re blossom in a marriage. It was on the rocks, maybe. And so yeah, that's what we call the monument method. And and so I had actually written the book, the monument method last fall and we were out. Um, I was out working on one of our cars and I had worked on this car for two months. I'm a pretty decent mechanic. I was a farmer during my twenties. And so I overhauled tractor engines back then so I could turn a pretty good wrench. But these new cars, with all their computers and stuff, are just a pain. And I had worked on it two months and I finally got it running. And so I was so happy. I drove it around the block and pulled it into the driveway and and shut it off. And Heather wanted to go visit friends. We made best friends with the man that got his heart seventeen days after I got mine. And, uh, Heather and his wife, Chris, have trauma bonded over their heart transplant husbands and are closer than sisters now. And, um, and so Heather was really excited to get to go see Chris. And so we got it. We loaded our luggage in and we got in and pushed the button. Nothing. No lights on the dash. It didn't even click. And so between the fact that I had worked on it for two months, and the fact that Heather was so excited to go see Chris and it was now disappointed. I was really upset, right? Very fast. I'm not normally an angry man, but I got upset pretty fast in this case. And, uh, and so smoke starts coming out my ears. And so I pop the hood and I get my little multimeter and I test the battery and it's really low. And so I, I pulled the other car up across the lawn to get it close enough to, uh, jumpstart it. And I popped the trunk on it. And I go back around to get the jumper cables that I know are there and they're not. I don't see them. The reason I don't see them is because they're under a blanket that I was too dysregulated to move the blanket and find them. And so now I'm really even more upset. And so I remember another set that's hanging in the garage. And so I go in to find those and I find them and I, they're, they're like forty years old and I carry, I'm carrying them out and I'm saying, oh, I left these out in the weather too many times during the forty years because they're all rusty and nasty and all corroded. And I go, they're not going to conduct electricity. And sure enough, I put them on the other car and click the other end together to see if there's a spark and there's just nothing. And so I grab them off the car, I hold them over my head, and I throw them on the concrete. Well, Heather's in the car with the hood up so she doesn't see any of this. And the windows are up so she doesn't hear me scream. So she she has no clue that I'm spiraling out of control, just feet in front of her, and she's just in there playing on her phone and and waiting for me to get it fixed. And, uh, and so I go back in the garage and find another set of jumper cables that's good. And I come back out and I get it all hooked up. And, uh, I walk around to the driver's side of the car and, uh, picture this. I'm so upset that I opened the door and I, a sixty nine year old man crawling in on his hands and knees on the driver's seat. And I get like eight inches from Heather's face and say, I need a monument. And the second she gazed into my eyes, that anger just went gone. It shocked me because I wasn't. I was expecting her to calm me down, but it was just gone and and and so the first thing I said is, okay, you have my permission. Any time you see me upset, You can come monument me and get me to calm down. And so we're calling that the sanctuary bond. And so as I now there was another book that I had to write. So I got to writing that book and I saw all of a sudden it got it. It came to me how powerful the sanctuary bond was because historically, let's, let's say I'm going to get a little traditional here. Let's say the woman is is in the kitchen cooking supper for the family. And the man's been out in the world all day. And the world has been really mean to him that day. And he comes in that door and he's in fight or flight mode big time. And and she sees it and she says, well, maybe I'll just stay in the kitchen and hide for a while and hope he he calms down. Or worse yet, she comes out and she engages with him. And now he, she's in fight or flight mode two, and the outside world has brought its hammer and chisel into the relationship and is going at their monument. And so with the sanctuary bond. When he comes in that door in fight or flight mode and she sees it, she can now go to him with his permission. It takes again, it takes you arranging all this ahead of time in periods of sanity. Because when you're when you're when you're in the middle of it, the same brain isn't around. And so she comes to him and gives him monument, gets him to calm back down. And that's going to do two things. First of all, it's going to increase that bond between them. It's going to increase the nervous system safety. So the desire blooms more. And and also it's going to make him live longer because he's she's getting him out of that fight or flight mode where the the hormones, all the stress hormones are killing slowly killing you. And so instead of, you know, historically, they might have had a evening where they bickered back and forth all evening long and then went bed, went to bed mad at each other, and turned their backs on each other and went to sleep. Now, with the sanctuary bond, they've established that bond right? As soon as he walks in the door, they have a wonderful evening together with the family. They go to bed and likely have some really wonderful lovemaking. And they they wake up the next morning refreshed and go ready to go tackle the world again. And so their relationship, the sanctuary bond, has caused their relationship to become a refuge from all the crazy in the world. And I think that's what we all, we all really want is a relationship that's a refuge and not another battlefield that we have to manage.
00:18:33 Swati: I really love the whatever you said. Like it's like it made so much sense. So like Galen, I think when people hear change your mindset, I think they often think it's just means being, you know, more positive or telling yourself to think differently. But is that really how changing our mental patterns work?
00:19:01 Gaylen Wilson: I, I don't think it does, from what I've discovered with the monument. The monument method protects the monument from each other from from your from each other when you're in. But the sanctuary bond protects it from the outside world and. And so I don't I know one thing. I don't think we went after it to just try to change our mindset. We. We were just looking for ways to get closer. And that changed our mindset. Working on our relationship changed our mindset. Learning the sanctuary bond changed our mindset. Um, one of the things as, as Heather and I implemented the sanctuary bond into our relationship, we found ourselves doing what I call micro sanctuary moments. For instance, we've always been really affectionate. When we would pass in the hallway, we would touch and, and, and connect that way. But now we found ourselves stopping and gazing into each other's eyes for a couple of seconds and making that connection. Or when we're talking about what bill we're going to pay next. We find ourselves connecting while we're talking. And and we've implemented it into, you know, I, I've been writing these books, uh, with AI. And AI is sometimes the most frustrating thing on the planet because It has a mind of its own. And so it would get me upset often. And so Heather had to use the sanctuary bond on me often to keep get my logical brain back in the game again. And I can remember, um, she a two or three months ago she had, she had come to me and settled me down and I was sitting in my office chair and she was standing in front of me and I had my arms around her waist. And I can remember looking up at her and saying, you're making me feel like a giddy schoolboy. At sixty nine years old, I'm feeling like a giddy schoolboy again in a in our relationship. So I really think that the this has the ability to return to the romance phase in decades long relationships and stay there as long as you faithfully work purposes. I. You do it on purpose. Too many times we're just drifting through life, doing what's in front of us and not really doing things on purpose. And I think. Doing your relationship on purpose is probably one one of the most important things we do in, in life. Um, I always say that the greatest gift this life has to offer is a strong romantic sexual friendship and spiritual bond with one person who you become incredibly one with. And that if you're not building that on purpose, you're failing yourself more than anybody. If you're not running every decision you make through through the lens of does this protect that bond? Or is this building me towards that bond? Uh, you're failing yourself.
00:22:30 Swati: That makes so much sense. So let's bring this into everyday life. The patterns like self doubt, avoiding certain situations, or constantly being hard on themselves. So yeah, so like these patterns don't only show up during major events or crises. They can show up in really, you know, small things, a conversation, a text message, or even the way we react when someone does not respond to us. So what are some everyday moments where people might not realize that a mental pattern is actually running the show?
00:23:19 Gaylen Wilson: Yeah. Um, well, first of all, uh, I've kind of taught you how to recognize the lizard brain, because the lizard brain is behind a lot of that bad thinking in your in your life. You know, the, the your primal brain has been trained through through evolution or however you want to look at it. Your primal brain has has learned patterns and that your logical brain can overcome. For instance, um, I was an alcoholic. Uh, I, I spent fifteen years inside a, a vodka bottle and the way I've been twenty years sober now, and the way I finally got sober was as I read a book called Rational Recovery. And it actually trained me to understand the attachment theory, uh, that I read twenty years later because it talked about how alcohol goes into your primal brain and makes itself an instinct that's just as strong as the need for food, or need for water, or need for sex. In fact, stronger than a lot of those. Because sometimes an alcoholic will forgo having food or water or sex in favor of going and getting his alcohol. And so once I understood that, I then understood that I had the logical brain that could override that. That when I had those cravings to go get the alcohol, I understood it as my primal brain trying to feed that instinct that said, you know, because when you when you're an alcoholic and you and you withdraw the alcohol, your primal brain has that instinct that says, boy, you're going to die if you don't get your alcohol. You need to go get alcohol or we're going to die. And so my logical brain that could then tell that primal brain, no, we're not going to die. There's no, no threat here. And, uh, and so It's interesting how that later in life, you know, when I was doing all the medical tests, one of the my biggest fears was the MRI machine. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but they're this little bitty tunnel that they stick you inside of, and it's got a really loud whirring things running around in it, and it's taking images of your brain or whatever, whatever they're looking for. And you can get real claustrophobic in there. And when I first experienced that, I, I, I got real claustrophobic with it until one time I, I got, after all my experiences with the understanding, the primal brain, the, the last time I took one, which was just a year, year and a half ago, I told myself, um, I just started telling myself, you're not in any danger. Tell. Telling that primal brain, you're not in any danger because that's that's what happens when you get in there. You're the claustrophobia is that primal brain telling you you're in danger. And so I just kept telling myself, you're not in any danger. You're not in any danger. And I actually, I did not expect the MRI to last one hour. So by the time I got got through, I was just barely hanging on by a thread. But that's how I got through that hour, was by telling myself, you're not in any danger, you're perfectly fine. There's nothing bad going to happen here. And so we do have a lot of power over that primal brain. If once we recognize that the primal brain is running, trying to run the show.
00:27:07 Swati: That's interesting because, those tiny moments really do add up. We might not notice one thought or one reaction, but over time, those little patterns can start shaping the way we see ourselves and the world around us. So if someone listening right now recognizes one of these patterns in themselves and thinks, okay, I really want to change this. So where should they start? Is there one simple thing they can try today?
00:27:40 Gaylen Wilson: Yeah. The, the best thing they can do is figure out what, what their primal brain is feeling threatened about because that that's the, the driving force behind most of our bad habits and everything else is our primal brain is feeling threatened about something. And, and we don't really realize how powerful our logical brain can be once we've decided that we're not going to let the lizard brain run the show anymore.
00:28:14 Swati: And what if it feels awkward at first? Because I imagine changing the way we have been thinking for years isn't going to feel completely natural right away.
00:28:30 Gaylen Wilson: I don't know, because I know when I discovered the, uh, the alcohol one, I was able to start having like six month periods of, of sobriety. Uh, I still had the occasional binge weekends, uh, for the next two or three years, but I was basically able to control those urges. Uh, pretty much as soon as I understand, understood that it was my primal brain making me have those urges. So I think it can be I can think it. I think it can be close to miraculous at times. Once you make that understanding, uh, that. You know, we have more power than what we think we do.
00:29:20 Swati: That's I think it's very reassuring to hear. So like, sometimes we assume that if something feels uncomfortable, we are doing it wrong. But maybe that discomfort is simply a part of learning a new way of responding. And then there is the long term part. Someone starts working on a pattern, they make progress, and then life gets stressful again. Suddenly the old reactions come back. So like, what do you tell people in those moments? How do they keep going without feeling like they have lost all their progress?
00:30:05 Gaylen Wilson: Mhm. Well, and that's, that's where what I've discovered with the monument method and especially the sanctuary bond comes in because if you have built that structure, that is a refuge. Then when life gets stressful again, you have a place to go to that's home that your mind feels like it's home, that your spirit feels like it's home. And, and that can be so, so strengthening. It basically you basically, like I said, your relationship becomes a refuge from all that stress outside stress.
00:30:53 Swati: And what would you say to someone who slips back into an old pattern and immediately thinks, well, I'm back to square one.
00:31:07 Gaylen Wilson: Well, again, if they have built that relationship in their life, that that's the big thing. That's why I said a while ago about the greatest gift this life has to offer is that relationship, because that relationship then becomes the refuge from all of those things that you, you tend to want to slip back into. And, uh, I, it can bring true joy in life. I, I, I wake up every morning saying to myself, how do I manage to love this woman more today than I did yesterday after twenty four years? So it, it, it can be really amazing.
00:31:58 Swati: I really love that. So, Galen, what's that one advice you want to give to our listeners?
00:32:05 Gaylen Wilson: Okay. Uh, the number one thing that a woman needs to feel happy in a relationship is to feel cherished. I mean, if she feels cherished, she will move the world for you. On the other side of that same coin, the number one thing that a man needs to feel in a relationship is respected. If he feels respected, he will move the world for you.
00:32:36 Swati: Thank you so much for having this conversation with me. If someone listening wants to learn more from you or connect with your work, where can they find you?
00:32:48 Gaylen Wilson: Okay, the Monument Method Institute dot com is my website. There are links to my Amazon pages. Um, uh, I've got, uh, my Amazon books are available in several countries around the world. And, uh, and I've also built I've written for what I call my ready series. There are my dating books that are, uh, Monument Man and Monument woman are for the older adults there. I have been in a failed relationship and are trying to get back into a good relationship. And then man before the monument and woman before the monument are my sixteen to twenty five year old dating books because they're dating. World is just crazy these days. And and so I've built the books in such a way that by the time the reader gets to the end of them, they're saying, okay, where do I find somebody to build a monument with? And so I built the monument, validated person and as part of my pay it forward from my heart transplant, it's going to be free for life. It's a dating site, and you have to read one of the four books and pass a quiz before you can get into the site. And then you have to know that you're there to build a monument with somebody. And I'm also giving away all four of those books right now to try to get that community off the ground, because it's a it's a ghost town right now. I just released it like a month ago. And so we need some bodies in it. Um, ladies, there is one man out there and, uh, but and the first thousand people that join are going to get a founder's badge on their profile as a founding member of the monument. Uh, m v p.
00:34:40 Swati: Thank you once again, Jalen. And to everyone listening, remember that change doesn't have to happen all at once. Sometimes it starts with something as simple as noticing a thought, recognizing a pattern, and asking yourself, do I really want to respond this way? That little moment of awareness can be where change begins. Thank you for being here. I am Swathi and this is mind over matter. Until next time, take care of your mind. Be patient with yourself and keep noticing.
