Transcripts
In this business, I don't need to be the best restaurant, but I need to be your favorite restaurant.
Speaker A:And in order to do that, I think that you need to have, like a stable of hits.
Speaker B:Style is more than just the clothes you wear.
Speaker B:It's the essence of who you are and it's in everything you do.
Speaker B:Discover it here and unleash your style beyond what you wear.
Grant Alexander:Welcome back to Haus of Style.
Grant Alexander:I'm your host, Grant Alexander.
Grant Alexander:And today we have a sensational guest whose culinary artistry is a sizzling example of how passion and personal experiences shape one's style and lead to success.
Grant Alexander:But before we get into it, let's do some quick housekeeping to our listeners and viewers.
Grant Alexander:If you're enjoying the podcast, please make.
Speaker B:Sure that you subscribe on your favorite.
Grant Alexander:Platform or YouTube so that you never miss an episode.
Grant Alexander:Hit that like button and leave a comment or review.
Grant Alexander:We'd love to hear your thoughts and we do respond.
Grant Alexander:Your reviews and ratings really do help us grow and continue to bring you amazing content.
Grant Alexander:And lastly, sharing is caring.
Grant Alexander:So please share this episode with your friends, family, or anyone who loves a good story.
Grant Alexander:Joining us is the phenomenal chef John Manion, a man who doesn't just cook food.
Grant Alexander:He tells stories through flames and flavors.
Grant Alexander:From the bustling streets of Sao Paulo, where as an eight year old, he was immersed in Brazilian food and culture, to opening some of Chicago's hottest restaurants, John's journey is a testament to staying true to one's passion and style.
Grant Alexander:John's story is an inspiring example of how embracing and committing to your unique style, no matter the field, can unlock doors to success and personal fulfillment you might never have imagined.
Grant Alexander:So whether you're a food enthusiast or an aspiring creative or someone speaking or seeking inspiration to follow your own path, this episode is for you.
Grant Alexander:Get ready to be inspired by a chef who cooks from the soul and lives with a fiery passion.
Grant Alexander:Let's welcome chef John Manion to House of Style.
Speaker A:Man, I love that.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:You know, I worked hard on that one.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:So much of what I've seen on socials was with fire in the.
Speaker B:I wanted to get sizzling and I put in all the, you know, adjectives and food as I could.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:That's gonna be my boilerplate moving forward.
Speaker B:I hope so.
Speaker B:If you need me to record it in a deeper, professional voice, I can do that.
Speaker A:You can do my outgoing message.
Speaker B:I can be your voicemail.
Speaker B:I'll be all your messages.
Speaker A:Who needs Bill Curtis?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Grant Alexander:That'd be fantastic.
Speaker B:I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker B:I've been a fan of yours for quite some time.
Speaker A:Thanks, man.
Speaker B:I, you know, when I was in.
Speaker B:Living in the city, now in the burbs, but when I was living in the city, LA was fantastic.
Speaker B:El fantastic.
Speaker A:Thanks, thanks.
Speaker B:And I'm very excited to be here in Bracero and to talk about all this.
Speaker B:I've been a fan for a long time.
Speaker A:Beautiful.
Grant Alexander:And I want to kind of just.
Speaker B:Dive right into the early goings of it.
Speaker B:And, you know, you moved from Detroit to Sao Paulo when you were 8.
Speaker A:When I was 8 years old, yeah.
Speaker B:I want to hear all about that, because that's not typical.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:My dad worked for the Ford Motor Company, and they built a plant in the late 70s outside of Sao Paulo.
Speaker A:And the way I remember it, you know, one day we're sitting at our little kitchen table in our little house in Livonia, Michigan, and my dad was like, what do you kids think about moving to Brazil?
Speaker A:And I know that we were.
Speaker A:The world was a little smaller then.
Speaker A:Very unsophisticated.
Speaker A:It was like, that sounds great, dad.
Speaker A:And the way that I remember it, the next day, like, they were throwing my toys in a box, and then we were, like, gone.
Speaker B:It wasn't actually a question.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we're going.
Speaker A:Yeah, we were going.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It was not a democracy.
Speaker A:Landed in Rio, spent a couple days there, which was pretty cool.
Speaker A:And then right into the heart of Sao Paulo.
Speaker A:And back then you flew into the city.
Speaker A:It's terrifying.
Speaker A:There's still a lot.
Speaker A:The airport's still there in the middle of the city.
Speaker A:And it is terrifying.
Speaker A:Flying into there, surrounded.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Now the international is way, way out.
Speaker A:And you kind of fly over Sao Paulo forever because it's that big.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I was a picky little kid living in Brazil.
Speaker A:Pretty sure I was gonna starve because I was not interested in any of the things that they had there.
Speaker A:Eventually, though, we lived in an Italian hotel for about two months while waiting for our house or finding a house, getting our house ready, all that good stuff, our stuff to arrive on the slow boat from wherever.
Speaker B:The house was a lot different than it is.
Speaker A:Oh, it's very different, yes.
Speaker A:So food became really central to our lives.
Speaker A:You know, going to the dining room, spaghetti Bolognese, prepared table side.
Speaker A:Like, that's pretty cool.
Speaker A:You know, Steak Diane, pretty good.
Speaker A:Things like that.
Speaker A:And then just being, I think, expats living in another country in the, you know, late 70s, early 80s, it was like there wasn't much else to do.
Speaker A:But socialize, eat.
Speaker A:We ate out a lot, we traveled a lot, and food became really central to our existence as a family.
Speaker B:How long did it take you to kind of feel comfortable living and being there and to like go out and to experience what other 8 year olds or 9 year olds were going to?
Speaker A:I don't think I ever thought about it in those terms.
Speaker A:You know, it was just like.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I think the answer to the first question is never.
Speaker A:I was never that comfortable.
Speaker A:It was always a new sensation.
Speaker A:But, you know, I was a little kid.
Speaker A:So you just like, you're adaptable, you go with the flow.
Speaker A:So yeah, it was never really comfortable.
Speaker A:It was always a new thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, we came back to the States every six months for visa purposes.
Speaker A:So it was a little refresh, but then we'd be right back in it.
Speaker A:It was a lot to absorb, but it definitely sunk in.
Speaker A:You know, when we moved back to the States, I really wanted to.
Speaker A:Even though I was an American kid, you know, I spoke Portuguese at that point.
Speaker A:Not Brazilian, not from there, but I definitely wanted to assimilate as quickly as possible.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So I feel like a lot of the things that I had learned I kind of put to the back, you know, you just wanted to be a normal kid.
Speaker A:Like, I didn't want to play soccer.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:I want to play American football, even though I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker A:So I really kind of repressed all that stuff for a long time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Grant Alexander:When did you start.
Speaker B:So you had the Italian food at first.
Speaker B:When did you start eating the local cuisine?
Speaker A:Constantly.
Speaker A:You know, the thing about Sao Paulo is that there is no.
Speaker A:It's much like, you know, if we think about the food in America, like Chicago, for example, we're surrounded by Italian food and we think that that's normal.
Speaker A:It's just part of like our everyday.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But if you go to Italy, it's very different.
Speaker A:Same holds true of Sao Paulo.
Speaker A:It's such a huge melting pot that, like, there's more Italians in Sao Paulo than there are almost anywhere else in the world.
Speaker A:There's more Japanese living in Sao Paulo than anywhere outside of Tokyo.
Speaker A:When we moved back to the Detroit area, I thought that Lebanese food was Brazilian food because it's so popular and so like widespread.
Speaker A:So like it's truly a melting pot in a way that I think that, you know, we think of Chicago as a melting pot.
Speaker A:Sao Paulo is way more way.
Speaker A:Like everyone is there.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:So all those cuisines kind of intermingle and they're all There.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I had.
Speaker A:It was just food, right.
Speaker A:And then as I went, you know, if you go up north in Brazil, that's when you get into, like, the Afrocentric.
Speaker A:What I think of when I think about Brazilian food, you know, palm oil, they call it dende oil.
Speaker A:A lot of shellfish, ginger, or hot chilies, that sort of thing.
Speaker A:And that's what really was like, to me, defines Brazilian cooking in a way that I think you'd say if you thought of American cuisine as Southern food, and a lot of people do, because it's one of the most unique cuisines that we have, that's kind of how I think about northern Brazilian food, even though we didn't live there.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:What point did you want to start cooking?
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:So I was really interested in food and cooking and coming back to the States, it was a real bummer, you know, like, as my dad used to say, the party's over.
Speaker A:Came back to the reality of, like, early 80s Detroit.
Speaker A:Not a lot going on.
Speaker A:We'd been really, really spoiled.
Speaker A:So I was intellectually curious about food.
Speaker A:We always ate dinner together at some point.
Speaker A:And then I was intellectually curious about just travel and other cultures because I'd had that experience.
Speaker A:My grandfather was the.
Speaker A:Was an editor for the Buffalo Evening News, and he was sending me, like, Hemingway and Studs Terkel and all these books that were way above my.
Speaker A:Above my reading level, but they made a big impact.
Speaker A:So coming back to the States, a lot of that escapism was through books.
Speaker A:And, you know, like, Hemingway talks a lot about, like, A Movable Feast, talks a lot, a lot about the experience of eating and drinking in Europe.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So when I was my freshman year in high school, I had this really influential teacher in honors English, Jeff Bean, who I don't know.
Speaker A:He read one of my papers, and he's like, where is this?
Speaker A:Where are you getting this from?
Speaker A:And I explained my background, and he clued me into this Michigan writer named Jim Harrison and gave me one of his book of novellas, and I was hooked.
Speaker A:Jim Harrison, great American novelist, died a few years ago, was very in tune with dining, eating, but through the lens of northern Michigan.
Speaker A:Foraging, hunting, fishing, all that good stuff.
Speaker A:But he was definitely what you'd call a gourmand back in those days and was an enthusiastic consumer of many things.
Speaker A:So at that time, he was writing.
Speaker A:He was the food editor for Esquire magazine.
Speaker A:At that point in my life, I had very interest in the sartorial arts.
Speaker A:I guess you'd Say, you know, I was not very fashionable.
Speaker A:Why, that's true right now.
Speaker A:But I got an.
Speaker A:I got a subscription to Esquire to read his column.
Speaker A:That led me to seeking out ingredients from his column, from cooking things like, you know, paella, like all these things that he.
Speaker A:That were in his column, I got really curious about.
Speaker A:And that led to cooking at home.
Speaker A:At some point I kind of, you know, we always had to either do the dishes or cook.
Speaker A:It led to me cooking.
Speaker B:I mean, it's way more fun to cook.
Speaker B:Oh, for sure.
Speaker A:At the same time, you know, at that point in American history, all kids had jobs like we had jobs.
Speaker A:Yeah, I tended towards the restaurant jobs because they were way more fun.
Speaker A:So I was always working in restaurants coming up.
Speaker A:Always, always through college.
Speaker A:No one was trying to be a chef when I was a kid.
Speaker A:You know, like, that was not a career option that I thought was open to me.
Speaker B:Because of where you grew up or because I just didn't know.
Speaker A:No, I didn't know.
Speaker A:But like, it wasn't a pop.
Speaker A:It was like saying, I want to be a domestic, you know, I want to be a butler.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, it was not viewed as.
Speaker A:At that time, there were emerging, you know, great chefs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But they tended to be European.
Speaker A:You know, it just wasn't part of the culture at that point in time.
Speaker A:You know, when I was in college, guys like Wolfgang Puck and Emeril were becoming like, TV really changed all that.
Speaker A:But when I was growing up, it was just something that, I don't know, it was like a roughneck job you did for a few bucks.
Speaker A:Yeah, at some point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I went to college, got an English literature and political science double major, graduated.
Speaker B:What did you think you were going to do?
Speaker A:Oh, I had no idea.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, some bullshit author fucking like, you know, that was never.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was never going to happen.
Speaker A:It was never like, that was not something I was serious about.
Speaker A:But at that point in my life, I wasn't really serious about a whole lot other than having fun.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did you have fun?
Speaker A:I had a great time.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker A:I had a wonderful time.
Speaker A:Great music writer.
Speaker A:I don't think food writing was a thing back then, but a writer in some way, shape or form.
Speaker A:What that led me to was I graduated college, I moved out to D.C.
Speaker A:because having the ability to read and write, like, there was plenty of jobs like that for underqualified people to just do bullshit.
Speaker A:I got a job in issues based pr, which was as dreadful as it sounds.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that sounds awful.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was pretty terrible.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I got a job cooking at a place called Hard Times Cafe in.
Speaker A:In Ballston, Virginia.
Speaker B:Could maybe have a more welcoming name.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, it was amazing.
Speaker A:It was like this chili, chili parlor.
Speaker A:And you bartended, you cooked.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was a great time.
Speaker A:At that point, that neighborhood, Clarendon, was like.
Speaker A:Like, the Fugazi house was around the corner.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, that was really like that.
Speaker A:No one in DC Was.
Speaker A:The DC Punk scene was really living in dc.
Speaker A:They were all living there.
Speaker A:So it was super fun.
Speaker A:At some point, it was like my dad sat me down, was like, what are you doing?
Speaker A:You know, what do you want to do when you grow up?
Speaker B:Was there a reason he set you down?
Speaker B:Was it.
Speaker B:You look miserable.
Speaker A:No, I think that, you know, I think that I had this job.
Speaker A:I probably got a raise from, like $14,000 to $14,500 a year, and it was just going nowhere.
Speaker A:I wasn't happy.
Speaker A:I wasn't good at it.
Speaker A:I wasn't engaged.
Speaker A:So we went to the local bar when I was home, and he was like, man, you gotta figure out what you want to do.
Speaker A:So I thought academia might be a route for me until I talked to my college advisor in English, and he was like.
Speaker A:When he was done laughing, he was like, yeah, this academia is not where you want to be.
Speaker A:Trust me.
Speaker A:So it was like going to the restaurant business.
Speaker A:And I thought that my quickest route to become an owner, which is what I wanted to be, I wanted to do my own thing, was through the kitchen.
Speaker A:You know, it was where I was most talented.
Speaker A:It was the most fun to me.
Speaker A:You know, I did all kind.
Speaker A:I bartendered, I waited tables, I cooked.
Speaker A:I always gravitated towards the kitchen.
Speaker A:So I decided that's it.
Speaker A:I quit my job, got a job waiting tables to make as much money as humanly possible in the shortest amount of time as possible, enrolled in Kendall College here when I was in Evanston back in the day, and, you know, saved money for six months and move to Chicago.
Speaker B:What was the reaction when you told your dad?
Speaker A:Oh, totally.
Speaker A:You know, totally supportive.
Speaker A:Totally supportive.
Speaker B:Was there anyone that wasn't.
Speaker A:No, I don't think so.
Speaker A:You know, I was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, I just remember everyone being completely supportive.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I'm sure that there were plenty of my friends who were like, you're gonna do what now?
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:It doesn't really.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's neither here nor there, you know?
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:So you started cooking in restaurants?
Speaker B:Here, how did you start to develop your own style?
Speaker B:Because you're cooking in a restaurant, you're cooking for another chef.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, from your influences in Brazil to what you were reading about Paella's and Esquire, there's clearly a lot of your own passion.
Speaker A:Personal style, like in cooking takes a long time.
Speaker A:It takes a ton of trial and error.
Speaker A:And it, you know, it is.
Speaker A:People think of cooking as an art, but it's more of a craft meaning, you know, it's more like woodworking than it is, like being an oil painter.
Speaker A:You really need to know the fundamentals.
Speaker A:You need to know, like, how things work, otherwise you're never going to be able to grasp what you see, you know, like, you'll never.
Speaker A:The technical proficiency to put what's in your head on a plate.
Speaker A:So you need to know the fundamentals.
Speaker A:And it really behooves you to understand why cuisines work, why dishes work.
Speaker A:So if you're like, at that point in your life, it's very much more about, like, observing and listening than it is about.
Speaker A:And, you know, we see it all the time now.
Speaker A:Back then, it was a little bit different, but I was.
Speaker A:I approached it with complete humility because I didn't know anything, and I knew that I didn't know anything.
Speaker A:And you get some fundamentals and you kind of, I don't know, get a little more confidence.
Speaker A:But it's very important that you just listen and learn for as long as possible.
Speaker A:This is put pre.
Speaker A:This is pre Internet.
Speaker A:This is pre, like YouTube.
Speaker A:This is pre, like us having people who are experts in something they never actually experienced.
Speaker B:That's why I was just going to ask and think about was now home chefs can teach themselves anything online and you can study online.
Speaker B:And I mean, I grew up since age 10, 11, 12, watching Food Network.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:All the time.
Speaker B:And that's where I learned basics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do you think there's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of home chefs that.
Speaker A:Home cooks that are like, make dishes.
Speaker A:I'm like, damn, that's crazy.
Speaker A:You know, but the real trick to our.
Speaker A:To what I like to being a chef is to be able to do it consistently for a lot of people over a period of time.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like, I think that the term chef gets thrown around a lot, and that's fine.
Speaker A:You know, like, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't even.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:It's not a.
Speaker A:It's not a T shirt that I have to wear.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, it's just what I do and I don't actually, at this point in my life, it's not that important to me.
Speaker A:People call me chef, some, A lot of people call me John.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter, you know, like, we know what we do, right?
Speaker A:You know?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:The point that I was going to make here is that it took me a long time.
Speaker A:I had this thing that I wanted to do.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I had a goal in mind and that was to get to cooking Brazilian influenced food.
Speaker A:So all the restaurants I worked in, no one knew what that was or did that and I was not welcome to do.
Speaker A:You know, it was not something I was playing around.
Speaker A:I would make it for my family, I would play around with, you know, I think the most pivotal dish for me is moa, which is a fish stew.
Speaker A:It's a stew, it's a seafood stew from the north of Brazil.
Speaker A:And that was kind of like the thing that I chased the most.
Speaker A:It was the, the touchstone for Brazilian cuisine because it incorporates a lot of the elements.
Speaker A:Well, a, it's one of the world's greatest dishes that isn't acknowledged or seen very often.
Speaker A:So that was really what I was chasing.
Speaker A:It was something that I worked on at home.
Speaker A:Like when we'd have big parties, I'd make a big moqueca.
Speaker A:It was what I was working towards.
Speaker A:Now you can take like all the techniques that you learn along the way and apply them to a very sort of specific dish, which I had no idea how to make other than some cookbooks.
Speaker A:But, like, it wasn't like I could go on and look at a YouTube video of people and by.
Speaker A:Yeah, making.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like, you had to learn, you had to go scrounge for these.
Speaker B:Yeah, it blows the library.
Speaker A:Yeah, it.
Speaker A:Well, it blows my cook's minds when I tell them, like, if I didn't know if I wanted to make beef stroganoff for family meal and I wanted to do it right, I would go down to the office and I would get like the joy of cooking and I would like, you know, leaf through it and I would like, okay, here's a recipe.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:This is what's in it.
Speaker A:You know, you don't necessarily need to know the measures, but you know what's in it.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it wasn't like you look at your phone and, you know, everything, you know, like the.
Speaker A:So that was what I was chasing.
Speaker A:I really got my opportunity, an opportunity to do that.
Speaker A:When I was working, I had a number of, like, cook, sous chef cook, like back and forth a bunch of jobs.
Speaker A:Nothing that really stuck.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:But I was trying to, like, at that time, once I got out of the Italian world, find mentors, find somebody who knew something about South American cooking.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And there were a few places that I went.
Speaker A:Nothing that had really strong leadership or anybody who could help me there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:And I was working at this joint venture with a Chicago company and a company out of Texas on Clyborne.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:Let's put it in the late 90s.
Speaker A:And it was not gonna be a success.
Speaker A:And I knew that, like, it was one of those jobs I took.
Speaker A:And I got in there, I was like, oh, fuck.
Speaker A:You know, like, this is.
Speaker A:I should not have taken this job, but I was gonna stick it out.
Speaker A:And it was a snowy, like, Monday night, and I was the sous chef, but I was like, the chef on.
Speaker A:The chefs from Houston, where they were from, were never in the restaurant.
Speaker A:You know, they were never there.
Speaker A:So I was in charge.
Speaker A:And I think that this is a cardinal sin.
Speaker A:I hate it.
Speaker A:But, like, I think we had closed early.
Speaker A:We were closing early because it was like this place was not going to make it.
Speaker A:And a group of people I kind of knew from just the restaurant world, they were all like, me and Franchesca, front of the house people.
Speaker A:And me and Franchesca back then was like the.
Speaker A:It was like, you know, it was celebrities, and you couldn't get in there.
Speaker A:You waited in line.
Speaker A:And this guy, who be Greenwald, was there with a bunch of friends, and it was his birthday, I think, and they came in, and I happened to be up by the host stand, and they were like, we're going to come in to eat.
Speaker A:And I was like, don't eat here.
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:Like, you know, I was not proud of what it was.
Speaker A:And we were closing down early, and it was like, the room, it was just not happening, you know?
Speaker A:And he was like, oh, shit, really?
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, man, don't.
Speaker A:You don't want to eat here for your birthday?
Speaker A:And this is a restaurant that I was, like, working at.
Speaker A:And so they were like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:We're going to go to Okno.
Speaker A:Why don't you meet us?
Speaker A:And I was like, cool, I'll do that.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was in my neighborhood.
Speaker A:This was on Milwaukee Avenue, was a Terry Alexander place that was, like, happening.
Speaker A:And he had said, like, I'm working on a Latin fusion.
Speaker A:Nuevo Latino is what they called it back then.
Speaker A:He's like, I'm working on this restaurant.
Speaker A:Do you Know anybody who knows anything, who's looking for a job, who's looking, who knows anything about South American food?
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, it's me.
Speaker A:I'm your guy.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:We're doing this.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker A:So went and met him, and one thing led to another.
Speaker A: to: Speaker A:And that was where I was thrown to the wolves.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, it was like it was a menu to come up with.
Speaker A:And I look back on it, like, some of it's pretty cringe worthy, but I got to do a lot and I got to learn a lot about my own personal style of cooking, for sure.
Speaker B:I mean, just to be given that opportunity.
Speaker B:And because of young.
Speaker B:Because of your honesty.
Speaker B:Yeah, yo, don't eat here.
Speaker B:So that's amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah, there was a lot to be learned, and I definitely fumbled my.
Speaker A:My way through a lot of it, but that's where I really started to learn.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's funny because you can put something up.
Speaker A:1.
Speaker A:As a young cook one day and be like, this is genius.
Speaker A:This is like the.
Speaker A:And then two weeks later you're like, this is what was I thinking?
Speaker B:Have you tried to make anything that was a failure, then bring it back?
Speaker A:No, no, not really.
Speaker A:I tend to like other than classic dishes.
Speaker A:I'm just like, let's move on.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's keep going.
Speaker B:Do you regularly do that for your menu?
Speaker B:Is it regularly changing or do you keep some classics and then just.
Speaker A:I like to have a core.
Speaker A:I dislike going into a restaurant where my favorite thing is routinely gone.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, like, there's a lot of.
Speaker A:In this business, I don't need to be the best restaurant, but I need to be your favorite restaurant.
Speaker A:And in order to do that, I think that you need to have, like, a stable of hits that should not change.
Speaker A:And if they do change, I love seasonal changes.
Speaker A:I love core dishes that are adaptable.
Speaker A:You know, I think that you can count on there being tomatoes and corn and then, you know, squash and mushrooms later in the year.
Speaker A:But no, I mean, things are always changing.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I love the part about, you know, you would just want to be everyone's favorite restaurant.
Speaker B:I think that's for any entrepreneur, any business owner, like, that's what you want.
Speaker B:You want people to love you, and if something's your favorite, you're talking about that, like, that's what you're sharing with people.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Well, also, I think a big.
Speaker A:A big difference now here, if we're jumping ahead to that, is that, like, bracero is such a collaboration amongst a bunch of people, you know, like, Adam, who is the CDC here.
Speaker A:Zach, who's the sous chef now, like, a couple of line cooks.
Speaker A:My guy Eddie has, like, just the most brilliant fish dish on the menu that I, like, I've had.
Speaker A:I've had all year.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And when we sat down to do this, it was very much like the touchstone of this is mas.
Speaker A:Like, that's the beginning.
Speaker A:It's the same neighborhood.
Speaker A:When I had the opportunity to do this restaurant, it was like, I want to explore where I started, which are these Brazilian flavors, which is where I started as a cook and wanting to cook, but sat down with the sous chefs and the cdc, and it's a collaboration.
Speaker A:It is like, none of you know anything about Brazilian food.
Speaker A:So we're going to talk about that and we're going to, like, learn about it.
Speaker A:And, like, me and Adam went to New York to eat in a bunch of places, but the baseline here is really like, let's just make it delicious and stay in the sandbox of South America when we can.
Speaker A:But, like, that can mean a lot of things because we're talking about Sao Paulo, and that's a very big.
Speaker A:Like, there's a lot more Asian influences on this menu.
Speaker A:There's a lot of just.
Speaker A:It's freer.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that is because now I'm the chef here, but I'm like an editor, you know, Like, I'm a teacher, I'm a guide.
Speaker A:And if I'm not listening to the young people who are finding their voices and helping them find their voices, then what am I doing?
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:Like, that's what it's about.
Speaker B:I think when you're explaining that, it sounds like you wanted to create the environment and the space that kind of you didn't have for those first years when you're figuring it out.
Speaker B:And I clearly had an influence.
Speaker B:I think that's an awesome way to go about, is to get those voices, to teach them.
Speaker B:And because you never know what new ideas you're going to.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:Like, I've been doing this a long time.
Speaker A:So if I'm not listening to and Learning from the 20 and 30 somethings that are working with me now, like, then I'm not learning anymore.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:I'm not close to the idea that there aren't, like, there are so many techniques and ideas that I've been running a business for a long time that I'm not privy to that are fascinating to me.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's definitely collaborative.
Speaker B:And I think for viewers and listeners, too, if you haven't seen John's socials, you should check them out because you will feel and get a sense of that collaboration in that environment he's creating.
Speaker B:I think that was when I first saw your profile.
Speaker B:I was like, this guy actually has fun.
Grant Alexander:And he has fun.
Speaker B:It's supposed to be with his employees.
Grant Alexander:But you hear about restaurants so often being so cutthroat and being.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not great working environments.
Speaker A:Well, you know, that's like.
Speaker A:That's a generational thing.
Speaker A:That's how I came up.
Speaker A:You know, I never really worked for anybody.
Speaker A:I wouldn't put myself in the position.
Speaker A:I didn't want to do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And most of the people I worked with were pretty nurturing, but there was definitely a.
Speaker A:It was just a different deal.
Speaker A:It was a different.
Speaker A:The way things worked.
Speaker A:It was a different world.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And certainly I look back to how I was at points in my life, and it's like, man, that wasn't.
Speaker A:That's not.
Speaker A:I'm glad we're past that.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, you want to always be better.
Speaker A:And in this business, which is a business, but anything, it's.
Speaker A:It's building teams.
Speaker A:It's trying to get everybody not walking but running in the same direction.
Speaker A:And that's like, you don't do that through fear.
Speaker A:It just doesn't work.
Speaker A:It doesn't work for me, and it's not how I want to live.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's supposed to be fun.
Speaker A:And honestly, like, I would.
Speaker A:I'm super proud of and inspired by the group of, like, the reason we did a second restaurant is because we had a bunch of people we wanted to work with and do more things.
Speaker A:So the reason we're going to do a third restaurant.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Because we are building teams that want, like, I want everybody here to succeed beyond their wildest dreams.
Speaker B:Is there already a third restaurant in the works?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, we're.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're working on it.
Speaker B:Did we just get a scoop?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know if it's a secret that once we scaled up to two, you build this infrastructure where now we can do a lot of things.
Speaker A:You know, going from one to two is really hard because in one, it's just this little.
Speaker A:It's this business that I can have my hands on.
Speaker A:You know what I mean, like at 2, like, I'm not really the chef of either restaurant.
Speaker A:I've got, you know, Dan Martini at Che.
Speaker A:I've got Adam Meyer here.
Speaker A:I just kind of help them and I'm the executive chef.
Speaker A:But like, I can't micromanage that and nor do I want to.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So you try to give people wings and let them fly.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:So at what point did live fire cooking come into it?
Speaker A:Early on.
Speaker A:And then much later.
Speaker A:So early on we took a break.
Speaker A:It just, you know, things changed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So one of the.
Speaker A:I have like these moments that I think of when I think about food.
Speaker A:And one of them is specifically picanha, which is the cut, which is the sirloin cap.
Speaker A:And it's the cut.
Speaker A:If you ever been a Brazilian steakhouse, it's the one that's on the.
Speaker A:On the skewer and it's C shaped, it's got a big fat cap.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like if you go to a shuras with a Brazilian, they'll be like, don't lamb chops that.
Speaker A:You don't want that Picnia, Picanha, picanha, picanha.
Speaker A:That's what you there to eat.
Speaker A:So I remember distinctly the smell of that dripping over charcoal.
Speaker A:In Brazil.
Speaker A:It is the beefiest.
Speaker A:Like, it is a.
Speaker A:I can recall it right now.
Speaker A:It is a very specific aroma and it's very evocative to me.
Speaker A:And so a lot of what we did in Brazil was eating in shurasquerias, but like outside, little, like casual places that is always like, you know, charcoal, mostly beef, but in Brazil, more of everything.
Speaker A:And then you move back to the United States and it's like a gas grill with a Weber.
Speaker A:It's not the same thing, but I always carry that with me and I always loved it.
Speaker A:But then when we were doing.
Speaker A:When we had mas, I started going to Argentina quite a bit.
Speaker A:We went, we did a ton of Argentine wines.
Speaker A:And back then it was just kind of like I was dating a woman from Buenos Aires.
Speaker A:It was just a fun thing to do.
Speaker A:And I got like, just absolutely wowed by asado culture, which is not so different than churrasco, but different enough.
Speaker A:So I really became enamored with that method of cooking.
Speaker A:You know, in Argentina, it's more.
Speaker A:You take wood, you cook it down to charcoal, bring the charcoal under the meat, and you cook that way.
Speaker A:So it's direct, indirect, very similar to churrasco.
Speaker A:But like, I just became a huge.
Speaker A:It became an obsession.
Speaker A:The way people get obsessed with barbecue.
Speaker B:Right I think it's.
Speaker B:I mean, it's cool as fuck to just be like, I cook over a live fire.
Speaker A:It's fucking cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that will always be central to, like, whatever we do.
Speaker A:I want that to be part of it.
Speaker B:Like, I want to be in my backyard and just be, like, building a fire right now and just throwing some meat on it.
Speaker A:You can do that.
Speaker B:I could do that.
Speaker A:You can do that.
Speaker A:Anyone can do it, you know?
Speaker A:So I knew that during the Moss years, when I did my own place, I wanted it to be a midwestern version of barijada of a Buenos Aires, like, steak restaurant.
Speaker A:That's what I wanted, and I was poised to do that.
Speaker A:I think where I was moving towards that.
Speaker A: And then: Speaker A:So any kind of, like, money I had or commitments just dried up.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A: uring that time, in the early: Speaker A:It was in a junk store in Palermo in Buenos Aires.
Speaker A:And no one knew.
Speaker A:Like, the guy was like, I don't know.
Speaker A:It's just it.
Speaker A:I suppose it was a bar.
Speaker A:Che means in, like, the vernacular of Buenos Aires, che is like guy or dude, you know?
Speaker A:So when people like, che belludo che che no me.
Speaker A:Like, it's just like, people who say it say it a lot.
Speaker A:And, like, the reason that Ernesto Guevara was called Chase, because he was with, like, Mexicans and Bolivians and Cubans who had never heard anybody say that word so much.
Speaker A:So that became his nickname, but that's what it means.
Speaker A:And so I carried this thing around for years, knowing that, like, this was the name of the place.
Speaker A:And when I did my own restaurant, it was going to be called El Chbar.
Speaker B:That's so sick.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that was the second restaurant you opened, right?
Speaker A:Well, no.
Speaker A:Yeah, but so what happened was we had a deal to do elce in an existing restaurant on Chicago Avenue.
Speaker A:I won't name it, but, like, we had a deal.
Speaker A:The owners were moving, they were retiring, and they ended up selling it to their employees.
Speaker A:But we were gonna.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it all worked out, but we were gonna do elce there.
Speaker A:It fell through.
Speaker A:And I had all these, like.
Speaker A:I had friends, like, lined up to do this, and we had all this energy, and so we're like, well, let's do a pop up, right?
Speaker A:And I knew Kim Dalton, who had.
Speaker A:What was it called?
Speaker A:Dodo.
Speaker A:Dodo in Fulton Market.
Speaker A:She had it over here on Damon for a long time.
Speaker A:So I knew her from the neighborhood.
Speaker A:And so we did a pop up in the space on Fulton and Morgan and there were like Abe from Fat Rice was doing X marks there.
Speaker A:Like it was a pop up space and it was a total dump.
Speaker A:And that neighborhood was like just unlike anything that it was now.
Speaker A:But it's perfect for us.
Speaker A:And it was the end of summer, so it was really hot out.
Speaker A:The AC didn't work.
Speaker A:Strung up some lights.
Speaker A:My friend Frank Orle played a bunch of music.
Speaker A:Did like two nights, sold out right away.
Speaker A:And I called it La Serena Clandestina because it was like the Hidden Mermaid.
Speaker A:Cause it was like, you know, the Clandestina parts.
Speaker A:Like let's keep this on the down low.
Speaker A:Maybe it's just a whole like kind of cash situation.
Speaker A:And it was great fun.
Speaker A:But like that space wasn't che.
Speaker A:It just didn't work.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:First of all, we couldn't build any kind of fire and the place would burn down.
Speaker A:But we did it.
Speaker A:It was fun and ended up just making this deal with Kim to come in and.
Speaker A:Cause they weren't going to make it take that space.
Speaker A:It was like eight and a half years left on the lease.
Speaker A:Like, we'll come in, we'll do this.
Speaker A:And that was La Serena.
Speaker A:They just kind of.
Speaker A:It was an accidental restaurant just happened.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that like natural progression seems to.
Speaker B:That makes it a lot easier.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Think of much.
Speaker A:And that like the intention there.
Speaker A:I think if I remember correctly, it was a long time ago.
Speaker A:Was like that was as much of a bar as it was a restaurant.
Speaker A:It was magic, man.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:But things like that can't exist here anymore.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:They're too small, too special too.
Speaker A:Like we had.
Speaker A:So we took over that lease and that lease.
Speaker A:On that lease, we paid a quarter of the taxes on that building, which were nothing and when and which was great for the first couple years, someone.
Speaker B:Just walked in and we got to talking about people might want jobs if they're walking around times during the day.
Speaker B:How do you hire somebody?
Speaker B:Do you ever just say cook for me?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:You should.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:What happens is like it's usually with cooks, we'll have them come in in stage, which means like we'll pay them for their time.
Speaker A:But you come in, you work a shift, see if you like it, see if we like you, see how you work, you know.
Speaker A:But that's like required.
Speaker B:Is it mostly referral based to like you?
Speaker A:Mostly, yeah, mostly.
Speaker A:The way that you get hired as a cook now is mostly.
Speaker A:I know somebody Who?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although I don't know.
Speaker A:We've had.
Speaker A:We put ads out.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Turnover isn't.
Speaker A:Turnover in the beginning is hard.
Speaker A:Now we have this solid core and sometimes they know people, you know, like, that's just kind of how it happens.
Speaker B:Does turnover get better and kind of just employees in general get easier?
Speaker B:Like Bracero's getting a whole bunch of awards and recognition.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Does it get easier and people want to stay?
Speaker B:Because it's getting more.
Speaker A:I think that it's all culture.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like people.
Speaker A:There are a lot of Michelin starred restaurants that people go to work in because it's like, thank you very much.
Speaker A:Because it's prestigious.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:But maybe the culture isn't for them here in Che.
Speaker A:It's kind of like I want people to stick around.
Speaker A:Turnover is really.
Speaker A:I want people to enjoy what they're doing.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just way better.
Speaker B:It's a nice way of going about it.
Speaker A:It's also like, if you're gonna run a business, it's kind of like if you could do one or the other and pay people the same amount of money.
Speaker A:How about if it's just fun and enjoyable and a good and good environment?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:It's way better than.
Speaker B:So much better.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we try to do that.
Speaker A:And that is.
Speaker A:Culture is the main thing that keeps people from leaving.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:It's almost never money.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I mean, that's fantastic.
Speaker B:I feel like that's what business owners should be striving for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think more and more are.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like, if.
Speaker A:If you want to do this for a long time, figuring out that path where it's like, it might hurt a little bit at first, but like, just the.
Speaker A:You got to take the long view.
Speaker B:Especially from a reputational perspective, and you don't want to be seen as the.
Speaker A:No, you don't.
Speaker B:So, you know, I kind of think of.
Speaker B:I mean, El Trey's awesome.
Speaker B:And the way I kind of think of El Trey now, especially in the.
Speaker B:This realm of style, where it's not about clothes, is that, you know, certain restaurants, and I don't think there are a ton of them, generally certain restaurants, it's not just about a cuisine.
Speaker B:It's kind of like a style focused restaurant.
Speaker B:And I think those ones are the ones that do best because those become people's favorites.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think of Che and here very much that way.
Speaker B:So how did.
Speaker B:Okay, so Serena was first.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:When you were opening Che, what was.
Speaker B:What was the thought behind that, you know, you were bringing the live fire and what went into the opening of that.
Speaker A:So it was a pretty well formed thought.
Speaker A:But it wasn't.
Speaker A:Che was the beginning of.
Speaker A:Che was rocky at best.
Speaker A:It was a big learning experience for me.
Speaker A:And there's like, Che kind of two lives.
Speaker A:The beginning where we brought on.
Speaker A:You know, my idea was that we'd have chef cuisines in both places.
Speaker A:Serena and Che, like.
Speaker A:Like we do now.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And that I would kind of oversee both things.
Speaker A:But that didn't work because neither one of the chefs of cuisine wanted to do what I wanted to do.
Speaker A:They had their own visions.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was difficult.
Speaker A:We ended up getting rid of both of them.
Speaker A:I hired somebody different at Sirena and just kind of took over by myself at Che and repositioned it to where I wanted it to be.
Speaker A:But that was a definite learning experience.
Speaker A:I had a pretty.
Speaker A:I knew exactly what I wanted Che to be.
Speaker A:And when we opened up, it wasn't that.
Speaker A:So we spent compromise.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Honestly, compromise.
Speaker A:I didn't know.
Speaker A:And this is as much.
Speaker A:This is actually on me.
Speaker A:I didn't know how to collaborate with people like I do now.
Speaker A:So there were battles I fought and won and those that I didn't deem important.
Speaker A:But eventually, like, I learned how to prioritize and stay true to.
Speaker A:Like, the vision was very clear to me, and I'm not sure that I articulated it well enough to the people I was working with.
Speaker A:So we ended up spending the next couple years getting it to that point.
Speaker A:The menu I had drawn on a piece of paper years before, and the menu now really reflects that.
Speaker B:Do you feel now it kind of reflects your time in Argentina?
Speaker B:Do you think it's kind of grown past that?
Speaker A:No, it reflects where we are right now.
Speaker A: re about dining in Chicago in: Speaker A:I don't try, you know, like, it's tricky for me because I'm not Brazilian.
Speaker A:I'm not from there, and I just spent time there, and I'm not from Argentina.
Speaker A:And my Spanish is, like, getting worse and worse the longer I go on.
Speaker A:And so there is this claim of authenticity for both things because they're hugely influenced by the biggest influences of my life.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And they're not.
Speaker A:Like, these restaurants are not authentic to those cuisines at all.
Speaker A:And we.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes I can see people who are from those countries whose traditions I'm really trying to respect, like, just disapprove completely of what we're doing.
Speaker B:You're like, oh, don't even come in here.
Speaker B:You're gonna be disappointed.
Speaker A:No, I mean, it's not.
Speaker A:That's not my intent.
Speaker A:I think now if you go to Buenos Aires or, you know, just eat in one of the big cities in.
Speaker A:In Argentina, like, chefs are not breaking those traditions, you know, but when people say, this isn't like my mom's empanadas, like, yeah, I know.
Speaker B:I'm not trying to be.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm not trying to be.
Speaker A:So it's tricky.
Speaker A:But I claim no authenticity whatsoever, you know?
Speaker A:So I think more than not, like, I.
Speaker A:I try not to say Argentina or Brazil, even though they're like, these are the influences.
Speaker A:So it's hard from a marketing standpoint to explain to somebody what it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just like, is it embodying those styles?
Speaker A:They're both Midwestern.
Speaker A:Like, at the end of the day, I'm a Midwestern guy.
Speaker A:They're middle Midwestern, like just seasonal, ingredient driven restaurants that are influenced one by time in Brazil.
Speaker A:And this restaurant tends to be a lot more seafood and vegetable focused, bigger, bolder flavors, because that's Brazil.
Speaker A:And the cooks cooking here and Che is very like, core competency.
Speaker A:We cook things over fire.
Speaker A:That's what we do the best.
Speaker A:Beef specifically, but not just.
Speaker A:And so everything else serves that.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:That box is much smaller of what, like what we can and cannot do.
Speaker A:And, you know, we're going to.
Speaker A:At the beginning of next year, we're going to do a little refresh.
Speaker A:It's eight and a half years there now, so.
Speaker A:And it needs it.
Speaker A:You know, you go in that room and it looks beautiful, but I can see it.
Speaker A:And there are things that have not always, like, the tables need to be a little bit bigger.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:A lot of, you know, the service where Che a little tired.
Speaker A:You know, it's just.
Speaker A:It's time to put some money back into it.
Speaker B:Style.
Speaker B:Refresh.
Speaker A:A little refresh.
Speaker A:Yeah, but like, now we have.
Speaker A:We know exactly who we are.
Speaker A:We know exactly what we're doing.
Speaker A:So it makes it really easy and it's more simplify, simplify, simplify.
Speaker A:Yeah, the menu will get a little bit smaller.
Speaker A:We're going to do a little graphic redesign.
Speaker A:Nothing major.
Speaker A:My goal there is that if you walk in, you'll be like, huh, something a little different here.
Speaker A:But it's not a facelift.
Speaker B:I think that's a great message in that if you know exactly what you're about, you know, your identity.
Speaker B:Those decisions are so easy.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of people are overwhelmed by choice and by option.
Speaker B:I can't imagine how many options there are for cutlery and for servants.
Speaker A:So many options.
Speaker A:So many options.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember when I was.
Speaker B:I do the cooking and most of the anything in the kitchen in my house.
Speaker B:And I remember when I was putting stuff on our wedding registry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The decision of which everyday plates to use versus if you get nicer ones.
Speaker A:And you know what's really hard for me is when we talk about interior design, which I have a partner in this business, Daniel Boyd, who's very, like, he's got a very keen eye.
Speaker A:He comes from high end residential real estate, so he has very good taste and he knows what he wants.
Speaker A:I have different taste, but, like, we've.
Speaker A:We've gotten there.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where I think we're both speaking the same language now.
Speaker A:And on this project, we worked with Simon Betty design.
Speaker A:The first two we did ourselves.
Speaker A:And that is, for me, looking at every slab of marble in the metro Chicago area is exhausting.
Speaker A:I need, like three choices.
Speaker A:I need two choices.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker A:And when you start, like with interior design or graphic design, where it's like, it's the old creative, like the Pinterest board.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you realize that you have all these things that you love, but none of them actually speak the same language.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you need to distill it down to, like, what actually is the idea.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And that's the process that I find challenging with design, but now invigorating, especially working with, like, real professionals, like, still learning about, like.
Speaker A:Oh, I never thought about it that way.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, every little choice sends a message.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:You know, each one has an impact on the next thing, so each one is critical.
Speaker B:It's similar for fashion when I show people, you know, so I started in custom clothing, so I'd show people books of fabric, and it took me not that long to realize people just want to see the five options.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker B:You can talk about a black fabric.
Grant Alexander:There are a hundred different black fabrics.
Speaker B:Most people just see black and nothing else, and so they don't even care about that message.
Speaker B:Definitely, like figuring out what your aesthetic is and the message you want to send.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's usually what I ask people.
Speaker B:It's like, what message do you want to send?
Speaker B:I'm gonna pick.
Speaker A:I wish everything was like the eye exam where it's like A or B.
Speaker B:Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker A:Can I see it again.
Speaker B:Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker B:B with me though.
Speaker B:So I got in a car accident over a decade ago and it left this donut shaped blurriness.
Speaker B:So when I do an eye exam, it's like 45 minutes and I'm like, I can't see any of those.
Speaker B:I can see the one in the middle, it's a Z and that's the rest.
Speaker B:So that would be.
Speaker B:I would fail that.
Speaker B:But that makes sense for everyone.
Speaker B:That would be fantastic.
Speaker B:So you have two choices.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker A:That's all I want.
Speaker B:And if they can tell you what each one does, like this one leads to more business, this one might lead to more people or might more press.
Speaker B:That could be nice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like graphic design.
Speaker A:We worked with hi Fi and Oak park too, and they're amazing.
Speaker A:But that was really just like going down the road of how do you, you know, these ideas are inside my head.
Speaker A:But like good designers are like shrinks.
Speaker A:They get it out, totally know the process.
Speaker A:They know like how to unlock what the idea is.
Speaker A:Even if it's ill formed, they'll get there.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like this.
Speaker A:For interior meeting with Siren Betty, initially it was like, okay, here's the touchstone.
Speaker A:Here's like there's always a thing.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, Serena was Br?
Speaker A: Bardo goes to buos in: Speaker A:That's like that what?
Speaker A:That's the little sleepy fishing village.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker A:I got pictures.
Speaker A:Che was very much Buenos Aires now today.
Speaker A:So that was, you know, 20.
Speaker A: It started in: Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we were working on it the whole time.
Speaker A: this one, this is Sao Paulo,: Speaker A:And they were like, okay, got it.
Speaker A:But then they had to go down the rabbit hole of what that means.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Because it means something.
Speaker A:You know, like it was a hugely influential mid century, like boom in, in Brazil.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And they got there.
Speaker A:Man, I love this place.
Speaker B:What's your favorite thing about it?
Speaker B:Like, what's your favorite thing about the style of this place?
Speaker A:The fact that wherever you're sitting, there's something to look at that's like that it's a discovery.
Speaker A:Any angle that you sit, there's something different to just kind of marvel at.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so when you keep coming back, there's something new each time too.
Speaker A:And there's like pretty specific.
Speaker A:It's a big, it's a big, wide open room, but there's pretty specific zones.
Speaker A:Sitting up front is so different than sitting by the fire.
Speaker A:You know, sitting at the bar is a completely different experience than sitting in the banquet over here.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker B:So it's a little tough.
Speaker B:I've always.
Speaker B:It was one of my life goals to be a regular at a restaurant and just have a spot.
Speaker B:And it's like, you walk in, they're like, let's go to your.
Speaker A:Pretty easy to do.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's pretty easy to do.
Speaker A:You need to, well, just come regularly.
Speaker B:That's a good start.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:Be cool.
Speaker B:Okay, I got that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's it.
Speaker A:Like, you just have to come regularly and be cool.
Speaker A:You know, like what people don't understand in a restaurant, and maybe it's not every restaurant, but for the most part, like, you get what you give.
Speaker A:So if you're, like, extraordinarily kind, your service is going to be extraordinarily kind.
Speaker A:What people?
Speaker A:What we love as well is guests who are like, just, I don't want to eat X, Y or Z.
Speaker A:Can you just do this for me?
Speaker A:Can we just go for it?
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, I don't know anything that's wineless.
Speaker A:Can you, like, here's what I like.
Speaker A:And give me two choices like, that people are open to the experience.
Speaker A:That's what we love.
Speaker A:We absolutely love.
Speaker A:We have so many regular guests who are just like, just lovely people.
Speaker A:You don't have to, like, yeah, drop a ton of cash.
Speaker A:You don't have to, like, you got a tip.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But you don't have to be that guy who's just, you know.
Speaker A:But, yeah, just be cool and you're going to love me.
Speaker B:I come in, I one of my big puppies, and I probably go overboard on this.
Speaker B:I've always.
Speaker B:I dislike what other people like just for sport, basically now, and it's when I go and sit down and a server comes up and they're like, oh.
Grant Alexander:Let me tell you what the most popular.
Grant Alexander:This is the most ordered thing.
Speaker B:I'm like, no, can't get that anymore.
Speaker A:Least popular.
Grant Alexander:What's the chef eating?
Grant Alexander:What would they be eating right now?
Speaker B:Or tell them to make me whatever they're going to eat.
Speaker A:And you'll get a very different experience here if you ask that.
Speaker A:But one thing, like, in kitchens, you know, your order comes out on a ticket.
Speaker A:It's usually coursed out.
Speaker A:And the expo, like, people will talk about extra.
Speaker A:Like, there are tickets that, like, Adam will call me on me, like, dude, what's up with table 52?
Speaker A:Because it's like, that's a fucking baller ticket.
Speaker A:Like, these people are, like, doing it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, we take notice.
Speaker A:You know, like, a good order is something to be applauded.
Speaker A:And oftentimes, like, the.
Speaker A:I mean, our servers are so good in both places, but when they're allowed to go for it, they'll go for it.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there are certain things, and I shouldn't say this, but, like, there are certain things that we'll do because people are cool.
Speaker A:Half orders of, like, anything.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Like, scale things up or down.
Speaker A:Like, we'll, you know, we'll do whatever.
Speaker A:That's our job.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it's pretty easy to become a regular.
Speaker A:It's pretty easy to get noticed.
Speaker B:All right, Come to John Manion.
Speaker A:You have a rest.
Speaker B:Just be cool.
Speaker B:Come often and he'll be a regular.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker B:Just got to pick a table out.
Speaker A:Well, you can't always get the same table.
Speaker A:There are preferences.
Speaker B:So I have to be, like, extra cool.
Speaker B:I put in a little more time.
Speaker A:That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Now it's all open table.
Speaker A:It's all, like, plotted.
Speaker A:It's unbelievably complex.
Speaker A:But we do have notes.
Speaker A:There's always notes.
Speaker B:All right, I'll get in those notes.
Speaker B:Yeah, just a big smiley face.
Speaker B:That's my note.
Speaker B:What advice would you give to someone trying to find their own unique style?
Speaker B:And it doesn't have to be within the restaurant industry.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:I think that being open to, like, whatever.
Speaker A:I think that, you know, when you're younger and this is good, like, you try on a lot of hats, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:You try a lot of things out, personal style wise, culinary music, whatever.
Speaker A:Like, whatever.
Speaker A:But being open to what's out there, being open to influences.
Speaker A:Being open to, like, what you like, meaning loving a band that's not popular.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's not, like, cool.
Chef John Manion:Yep.
Speaker A:And I think that now kids have a little bit better because you can like all kinds of things.
Speaker A:But it's hard for people to fathom that at one point in time, you couldn't actually vocally enjoy the Clash and Led Zeppelin because of the opposite.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Like, what they stand for is the opposite.
Speaker A:Now, you can, like, love hip hop, you can love country, you can love whatever.
Speaker A:But, like, I don't know, if you love something that's unpopular, just embrace it.
Speaker A:Just be who you are.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, but be open to experience.
Speaker A:That's great for cooks.
Speaker A:For me, it's like, go travel, go see the world.
Speaker A:Go, like, figure it out.
Speaker A:Go, like, date A Spanish woman for a minute.
Speaker A:Go, like, go be broke.
Speaker A:Go live it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Go see art.
Speaker A:Go swim the ocean.
Speaker A:Go.
Speaker A:Just do it while you can.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you'll get into your career.
Speaker A:If you're successful, like, that'll go away.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, your time is your energy.
Speaker A:So when you're young, you can just go for it.
Speaker B:That's awesome advice.
Speaker B:All right, so house style is about style beyond clothes.
Speaker B:So whatever someone's personal style is that in whatever field.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That makes them successful and, you know, more able to live a fulfilling, passionate life.
Speaker B:How would you describe your personal style in that realm of house?
Speaker B:Of style?
Speaker B:Describe your personal style in three words.
Speaker A:Practical.
Speaker A:I was going to say utilitarian, but that's the same kind of thing, you know, in practical.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And I've had a few of these over the years, but, like, in my late 20s, early 30s, I adopted a uniform, you know, And I think that a lot of people that I know and specifically successful people kind of, like, figure out who they are, and that's what you do.
Speaker A:It makes.
Speaker A:It streamlines my life.
Chef John Manion:Yep.
Speaker A:I know that it always looks good, and if you do it long enough, it kind of defines who you are for sure.
Speaker A:And that's not to say that it's lazy, you know, like, you don't want to be the black turtleneck guy, because, you know, it's been done before.
Speaker B:I think there's still.
Speaker B:There's freedom within the uniform.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:It's not wear the same thing every day.
Speaker B:I think this is something as a stylist.
Speaker B:I think when I became the best version of me as a stylist was when I switched to a uniform.
Speaker B:Early on, when I was designing, anytime I saw a beautiful fabric, I was like, boom, I'm making a jacket.
Speaker B:Boom, I'm making this.
Speaker B:And I built up a wardrobe of.
Grant Alexander:So many jackets with all these patterns that I would wear once or twice.
Grant Alexander:I'm like, it's not actually me.
Speaker B:And then five, six years ago, I started buying really interesting color solids.
Speaker B:I care about versatility.
Speaker B:It's something I preach to all my clients for style.
Speaker B:I think style needs to be versatile.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And when I pretty much I do these solids, I got awesome outerwear, and I wear either a heavyweight tee or.
Grant Alexander:This shirt called the popover.
Speaker B:Those are my two things.
Speaker A:Simple.
Speaker B:I wear a jacket.
Grant Alexander:And the jackets may change the color, T shirts change, but that's pretty much it.
Speaker B:And no matter what, like, I know wherever I go, I'm gonna be the most stylish one in the room.
Speaker B:And I don't think anyone would look at me and be like, oh, he's got a uniform.
Speaker B:But I definitely have a uniform.
Speaker A:That just makes sense.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Resonates.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I had to.
Speaker A:You know, for me, it was like that transition in the way that I work where, you know, when I was younger, I would come into work and I would change into chef clothes because I was cook, you know, and now I don't really do that as much anymore.
Speaker A:But it's helpful to have shoes, pants, shirts that you can jump on the line if you need to.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You can go to an offsite event and grill, you know, and actually work in.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:But also then not come back to the restaurant and have to change your shirt, you know.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker A:And that just sort of became like.
Speaker A:And again, jackets are huge in the Midwest.
Speaker A:But, like, that just became what I wear.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:To the point where sometimes I tell people who I work with, like, hey, you know, I actually have, like, seven of these shirts.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:They do get laundered, for sure.
Speaker A:Just kind of what I.
Speaker A:It's just what I do.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we did a photo.
Speaker A:We did a video clip at Camp Wanda Waga this year.
Speaker A:And I, you know, my only critic.
Speaker A:It was great.
Speaker A:But my criticism was it was too cat.
Speaker A:Like, I was wearing shorts and a T shirt.
Speaker A:We should always be in the uniform, you know, like, for continuity.
Speaker A:It just, like, it makes sense for sure.
Speaker B:It's what people see you as, know you as, and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's what you feel your best.
Speaker A:It's how I feel the most comfortable.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Totally get that.
Speaker B:Love that.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, meaning, invest in the, like, don't be afraid of.
Speaker A:To buy expensive shoes.
Chef John Manion:Yep.
Speaker A:Or jeans, if you're going to live in them and forget about the cheap shit.
Speaker A:Goes away.
Speaker A:So how do.
Speaker A:How do I explain that?
Speaker B:Quality over quantity.
Speaker A:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker A:Quality.
Speaker B:Quality.
Speaker A:And I think just like, if I can use this as a term.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker A:You know, like, it's a question I ask myself.
Speaker A:Is that cool?
Speaker B:Is that cool?
Speaker A:That's a good.
Grant Alexander:That's a good measurement.
Speaker B:Is that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Be cool, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:How do you think people can use those things?
Speaker B:Practical.
Speaker B:Focus on quality and being cool in their lives today, right now.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Being cool.
Speaker A:Would Steve McQueen wear it?
Speaker B:That's a great message.
Speaker A:So are these sunglasses ridiculous?
Speaker A:Do they look good on my face?
Speaker A:You know?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:Quality.
Speaker A:Will this be around in a year?
Speaker A:You know, like, will this be relegated to a shelf somewhere?
Speaker A:Will I ever wear it?
Speaker A:Again, Will I ever use it again?
Speaker A:Is it going to last or is it cheap?
Speaker A:Is it going to fall apart?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:Practical.
Speaker A:Oh, practical.
Speaker A:Same thing.
Speaker A:Like, will I, will I use it?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:Does it work?
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:So really quickly we'll kind of wrap with what's next for you?
Speaker B:Where do you see your style going?
Speaker B:And I mean, what's restaurant number three and four?
Speaker B:All those secret details.
Speaker A:So what's next for me?
Speaker A:We're working on something that's more in the Che wheelhouse than the than the Bracero wheelhouse.
Speaker A:I like cooking meat over fire, so it's there.
Speaker A:But I think that it's safe to say that if I've explored the beginning of my culinary career, which is the Brazilian influences.
Speaker A:Yeah, many, like I've touched on a few times in my career and I scratched the itch of like the Argentine experience, you know, and now, like both, both restaurants are exclusively South American wines.
Speaker A:We have the biggest South American wine collection I think in the United States at Che.
Speaker A:And we're going to keep on pushing that.
Speaker A:It's very important to our mission.
Speaker A:But I think the next one's going to be about, like, who I am outside of those things, which is Midwestern, which is like who I truly am in my core and day to day life.
Chef John Manion:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's pretty much what I'd say about that.
Speaker A:But fire central to it.
Speaker A:And growing up in the Great Lakes region is very central to it.
Speaker A:Next question.
Speaker B:No, that was perfect.
Speaker B:Stick around.
Speaker B:We're going to ask some fun, more informal, casual questions in the bonus exclusive content.
Grant Alexander:But for now, that wraps up our fantastic conversation with chef John Manion.
Grant Alexander:Or just John because he doesn't care about Chef.
Grant Alexander:From his childhood in Sao Paulo to his acclaimed Chicago restaurants, like right here at Bracero, John's journey beautifully illustrates the power of embracing your unique style.
Grant Alexander:His passion and dedication to his culinary style not only shaped his career, but enriched his life and those of everyone he's fed.
Grant Alexander:So as we wrap up today's episode, I encourage all of you to reflect on your own passions and experiences.
Grant Alexander:What would happen if you embraced them fully, committed to them wholeheartedly, just as John did?
Grant Alexander:Perhaps like him, you'll find doors opening to new opportunities, personal growth, and a more fulfilling life.
Grant Alexander:A huge thank you to John for sharing his story with us.
Grant Alexander:If you're ever in Chicago, be sure to visit Bracero and El Chase Steakhouse and Bar to experience his culinary artistry firsthand.
Grant Alexander:It's truly special.
Grant Alexander:And lastly, remember to subscribe.
Grant Alexander:Leave a review and rating and share this episode with anyone who might find inspiration in John's journey.
Grant Alexander:And for exclusive content, a peek behind the scenes and cooking tips.
Grant Alexander:Stick around and visit the link in our Patreon in the show notes and description below.
Grant Alexander:Thank you so much for joining us on Haus of Style until next time, I'm Grant Alexander reminding you that style isn't in your wardrobe, it's in.
