Transcripts
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
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people and rescues making a
difference in the lives of animals.
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Today's episode tackles a side of shelter
life that isn't always talked about,
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the cats who don't cope well, the ones
who become labeled spicy, shut down, or
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misunderstood in a shelter environment.
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I'm joined by Berlin Waters of
the Spicy Cat Project, who's doing
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incredible work advocating for these
cats and help us better understand
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what's really going on beneath the
hisses, swats, and the silence.
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We're getting into why some cats
struggle in shelters, what stress
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really looks like in feline behavior,
and how to change the outcome for cats
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who might otherwise be overlooked.
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Hi, Berlin..
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I'm so glad that you are coming on the
show to talk about the Spicy Cat Project.
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Yeah, me too.
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I'm
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Berlin: excited.
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Dixie: Yeah, 'cause that's
something that means a lot to me.
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I do cat rescue and- Oh, yeah ... yeah.
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And , it's a problem that you
see a lot of the times, and a
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lot of people don't realize it.
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So I'm glad that you're- ... here to be
able to discuss it, and so we can kinda
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see what's really going on with these
cats- ... when they become shut down.
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- Berlin: Yeah, it's
definitely been a problem
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that I've noticed.
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Dixie: To start, tell us
how you got into doing this.
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Berlin: Yeah.
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I've had many cats my whole
life, and so cats have always
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just been a passion of mine.
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And then when I started a master's
program at UF in shelter medicine,
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we had to do a research project, so I
started volunteering at the shelter, and
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pretty quickly I noticed that so many
cats were being neglected emotionally.
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They weren't having their needs met, and
so I decided that was my research project.
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I was gonna work with these cats
because I also saw that a lot of the
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staff was, intimidated by these cats,
which is understandable, and no one
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really know, knew what to do with them.
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So I was like, "My goal is gonna be
work with these cats, see if I can
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socialize them, see what I can do just
to improve their welfare," and so that's
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how the Spicy Cat Project started.
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Dixie: Another thing that I
would like to get into is a
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little bit with the term spicy.
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And- ... the reason that I wanna
bring that up is because I just
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recently shared a video on Facebook
And it was a four-week-old kitten.
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And I had him in a carrier, and
he was absolutely terrified.
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So ears flat, he's hissing up
a storm at me 'cause this poor
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little guy- he's terrified.
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So I put- Yep ... a video out there
to show people that he is not mean.
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He is just- ... terrified.
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And-
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Exactly
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... I did not know that there was a
spicy cat trend, and so Yeah ... his
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video, right now it's at 1.6
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million views.
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Berlin: Oh my goodness.
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Dixie: Yeah.
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And , like I never expected it.
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And so when I was telling somebody
about this, they're like, "Oh
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there's this spicy cat trend
where people think this is cute."
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- I wouldn't call it cute.
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I just put it out there- ... for like
education purposes to show people like,
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look, this little guy is terrified.
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Yeah.
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But within a couple of weeks, I'm
gonna have him turned into a love bug.
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Berlin: Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Dixie: So how do you view
the term like spicy cat?
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Berlin: Yeah.
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I 100% agree with you with that cat.
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Sounds like that little
baby was just terrified.
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And , the name of my project is The
Spicy Cat Project, but I actually never
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use the term spicy cat , in practice
because I do dislike it for those reasons.
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People tend to like to say
that in a fun, funny way.
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"Oh, he's spicy."
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And I I can see what they're trying to do
with it, but it's also okay, yeah, he's
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aggressive because this cat is terrified.
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They're so scared, and they're acting
out aggressively because , those
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are their defense mechanisms.
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So , while it is the name of my project,
I do have a whole definition on the bottom
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of my website that says, what spicy cat
means and what it means to me and how
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I don't use it, it is catchy and I hope
people will just recognize that and that's
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how I get recognition for my website.
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Dixie: You mentioned that your research
project was geared towards these cats
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that were shutting down in the shelter,
and also how- ... the way people
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viewed these cats So- ... through
your research, what have you found?
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What is the best approach when dealing
with these cats in these environments
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when they come in and they just get
very aggressive or completely shut
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down because they're so scared?
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Berlin: Yeah, like I said, so many people
just have this kind of misunderstanding
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of what cats are when they act out
aggressively because when dogs are
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scared, they have the sad puppy dog eyes.
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They look sad and everyone
wants to help them.
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And when people see cats that are acting
out aggressively, they assume these cats
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must be mean or feral or unsocialized.
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And so that I think is the biggest problem
why there's such a misunderstanding is
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even though these, the cats and the dogs
are feeling the same things, which is
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fear, people don't realize that, oh,
cats express that in an aggressive way.
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And so what I find is so many cats come
to the shelter and they are just terrified
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out of their minds, and people assume that
they must be unsocialized or feral, and so
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they leave them alone to decompress when
really most of the cats that come into
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the shelter were previously house cats.
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It's not like they were feral
cats just brought off the streets.
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But they just don't recognize
that's what they're feeling inside.
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So my basic approach is to get them
out of the kennel, get them in a quiet
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room, quiet environment, and just
interact with them one-on-one and
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just the main thing I've noticed is
just that reassurance, showing them
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that, there's nothing to be afraid of.
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I'm here to help.
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That's the biggest thing for these cats.
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Dixie: Yeah, and what you mentioned too
about the house cats being like feral.
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I run a few lost pets
groups on social media.
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Yeah.
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And that is one thing that I always tell
people, you wanna go check the shelter to
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see if your cat is in the shelter, but you
also have to- go check the feral cat room.
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So you wanna ask to go see- Yep ... the
feral cats because a lot of the time
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these adult cats will act feral.
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And in fact- ... like being in cat
rescue, that's something that really
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upsets me is when I see people thinking
it's nothing to rehome their adult cat.
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Because they think, oh, their cat
is 100% fine with them, friendly,
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lovey, but they don't realize when
that cat gets into a new environment,
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the cat shuts down most of the time.
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There's a few instances- ... where
I've seen it where the cat's okay,
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but most- ... of the time the cat
will shut down and a lot of the
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times the cat will even stop eating.
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I have one sitting on my lap right now.
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He's three years old.
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And, his owners gave him up because
they didn't have time for him.
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And so- ... when we first
got him in he's very cute.
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But I was like, despite how cute he
looks, we couldn't have anybody around
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him because he was just- ... he was
terrified, absolutely terrified.
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D'aww.
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We had one of these like little soft
pop-up containers that we had him in.
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And it's big enough for him to move
around, big enough for his litter box,
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big enough for a bed and everything.
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But even when we would go in to go change
his box or feed him, we would have to be
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careful 'cause he would come lunge at us.
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Oh,
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Berlin: yeah.
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Dixie: Now it took just a few
days, and after a few days-
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he's absolutely fine now.
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He's a love bug.
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But, you'd never know- That's
good ... how long it's gonna take.
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That's been my experience anyway, and
I've even- ... seen it where with a
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lot of rescues who will take back their
adult cats, that when they take them back
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after five, six years, sometimes the cats
will even starve themselves to death.
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Berlin: Oh my goodness.
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Yeah.
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Any transition, and that's one thing
I try and advocate for with my project
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too is adoption counseling because
whether they're getting, moving from
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the home into a shelter, they're
scared, but also when they're going
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from shelter back to a new home, at
the new place, they're also terrified.
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And so making those transitions as smooth
as possible and informing owners of how
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to do that, how to get them used to you
and how to not make it such a traumatic
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experience each time they move, is super
important for rescues and shelters.
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Dixie: Can we go over like the approach
that a rescue should take when they
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get in a cat like this, either from
the shelter or let's say it's one that
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they take in as an owner surrender?
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... As well as what adopters c-could do or
what rescues should advise adopters to
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do with cats that shut down like this.
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Berlin: Yeah.
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When any, cat comes into a rescue
or shelter , always definitely
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get as much information about them
as possible and their behavior.
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And then instead of just giving these
cats, days to just decompress, like a
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lot of people like to say I advocate
for working with these cats as soon
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as possible, within the first three
days really is just getting them out
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of that kennel, interacting with them
and socializing with them one-on-one
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again, in that calm, quiet environment
just to again, reassure them.
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And Same thing happens
going back into the home.
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I have advocate for owners and
the, shelters to, keep those
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cats in a small, quiet room.
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- I see so many times where cats would
get adopted and, at, even at the
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shelter if they are sweet, they bring
home this cat that they were told was
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super sweet, then like you said, they
get to the new environment and they're
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aggressive or stressed or not eating.
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And so with, adoption counseling,
I really highly recommend, keeping
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them in a small bathroom for, 7
to 10 days at minimum to let them
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settle in, and, frequent one-on-one
interactions in a calm environment
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just to get to know them and show them
that you're not there to hurt them.
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You're there to help them
through this, tough transition.
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And one of the things I really like to
do with, the aggressive ones especially,
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is , use my bundle and bond technique
where you wrap them in a towel wrap
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and just hold onto them just for those
first few minutes where they, are
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in that fight or flight state until
they're able to relax and go, "Oh, okay.
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Take a breath.
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This person's not hurting me.
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I can relax now.
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I'm safe now."
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And so that's what I found to be very
helpful for those super fearful or even
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cats that are lashing out aggressively.
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Dixie: With the bundle technique that
you're talking about, I have done
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that plenty of times with kittens.
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Now, it's a little bit different with
a bigger cat because, I know- ... even
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sometimes when you're dealing with a
kitten that might be, 10 to 12 weeks old,
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you've got to be really careful with that
kitten because the kitten's terrified-
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... and the kitten might bite you.
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Oh, yeah.
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So how- ... do you accomplish
that with an adult cat?
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Berlin: Yeah.
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For shelters I, I would recommend
that being, the staff doing that,
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not necessarily adopters 'cause
it is dangerous and, I wouldn't
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put that on adopters to expect
them to do something like that.
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But for, mostly when I deal with owner
surrendered cats or cats that we know came
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from a home environment , the ones that
are from a home environment and acting
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out the most aggressively in the shelters
actually don't need the bundle and bond.
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I would say 99.9%
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of the time I bring them into a
quiet, calm room and they're fine,
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and they open up and I don't even
need a towel wrap or anything.
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It's the ones that are, frozen in fear
that really need the bundle and bond.
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And so what I do is get them in
a feral box usually or a carrier
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and put that in their kennel.
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Then I transport them to the quiet
Calm room, and then I use the towel
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wrap to remove them from that.
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It's a lot easier to remove them
from, a feral box than it is just
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from inside their giant car- kennel.
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And then I wrap them in my Superman towel
wrap and it takes a lot of confidence,
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but as long as you can hold onto them,
cats are only 10 pounds, you can do it.
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They seem strong, but you're stronger.
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So if you just hold onto them for, the
30 to 60 seconds it takes for them to
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realize they're, you're not hurting
them, then that's usually all it takes
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and they're able to calm down and I just
talk to them and say, "It's gonna be
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okay," and they usually open right up.
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Dixie: Now for a rescue my
go-to is always like a bathroom,
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'cause it's a small room.
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. But let's say somebody doesn't have a
bathroom, but they use a spare bedroom.,
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If you don't have the cat crated or in
some kind of larger kennel, then the cat
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could go hide under a bed, go hide under
a dresser - and those types of things.
225
00:13:07,127 --> 00:13:12,437
Do you advocate for putting them in a
kennel until they get a little bit more
226
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acclimated to the space that they're in?
227
00:13:15,597 --> 00:13:15,867
Berlin: Yeah.
228
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Definitely-- Yeah, whenever I'm working,
like doing the socialization and when
229
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I bring them into a new room, like a
calm, quiet room that I talk about,
230
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I'm never just like letting the cat go.
231
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I'm always bringing them in there
so I can handle them one-on-one.
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But again, yeah, it's almost always
like an enrichment room at a shelter
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or a bathroom wherever it is because
I- Do not want this cat to get out
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or escape under a bed or up into
a cabinet where I cannot get them.
235
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So I definitely do not
recommend doing that.
236
00:13:48,752 --> 00:13:51,872
But yeah, dog crates, 'cause that's
what we do with feral cats, too,
237
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if we don't have space for them.
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A large dog crate, we will put them in
and with a, like a feral box or a hiding
239
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box of some kind, cover it with a bed
sheet to give them some more privacy and
240
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kind of work with them slowly that way.
241
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And that oftentimes
does seem to help a lot.
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00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:14,620
Dixie: I've been doing cat rescue for
a really long time now and- ... i'm
243
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familiar with the approach to going in
and touching a fearful cat even, one that
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could tend to be a little bit aggressive.
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00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,760
But I do find that there's
not a lot of fosters who have
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experience with that or- Yeah
247
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know what they're getting into, if they
agree to take in, like an older cat.
248
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Do you have any tips or tricks for them
to get the cat to come around as far
249
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as like maybe touching and feeding?
250
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'Cause I know some are always food
motivated, but then there's some-
251
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that might not eat for a few days.
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Berlin: And I try to tell people
same-- honestly, it's same things with
253
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:59,550
almost any cat, whether they're feral
adult cats or just really scared,
254
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fearful, owner surrendered cats.
255
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Just starting with a small space,
keeping them in that small space,
256
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keeping things quiet, being on a
routine for, if you just got that foster
257
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cat, come in every, couple of hours.
258
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Don't overwhelm them.
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And a lot of times I recommend just,
if it's the first couple days, leave
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food out 'cause, even the fosters
that I have that are scared, they're
261
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not gonna eat, and that's okay if
they don't eat for a couple days.
262
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They're just figuring things out.
263
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But just even sitting in
there talking to them without
264
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interacting gets them used to you.
265
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And then just, make your way,
work your way towards them.
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And a lot of it just comes down to
reading that subtle body language and
267
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seeing if they're, able to be handled
or pet and just going really slow.
268
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I go super slow with any cat that I think
even could be aggressive in the slightest.
269
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I just go very slow,
very gradual movements.
270
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And usually that's all it takes
is just that calm environment
271
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and gradual, introductions.
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Dixie: Churu is always excellent, too.
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Yeah.
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Churús are like the best invention ever
275
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Berlin: and string toys.
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I feel like string-- Cats love a
good string toy, and even if they're
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not gonna interact with you, they'll
oftentimes interact with a string toy,
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and sometimes I use that to coax them
out and get them distracted and that
279
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builds their confidence when they can
feel like, "Oh, I can play and I can,
280
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do the things that are, enriching."
281
00:16:28,481 --> 00:16:30,701
So those are also really good tools.
282
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Dixie: What about touching?
283
00:16:32,881 --> 00:16:36,891
I understand what you mean about the
subtle body language, but for somebody-
284
00:16:36,891 --> 00:16:40,751
... who doesn't necessarily know what the
subtle body language is, how would- Yeah
285
00:16:40,751 --> 00:16:41,621
they know what to do?
286
00:16:42,461 --> 00:16:47,921
Berlin: Yeah, for cats I always,
if there is any kind of aggressive
287
00:16:47,921 --> 00:16:53,251
behavior like hissing, growling, or
swatting, I do not recommend touching.
288
00:16:53,681 --> 00:16:54,431
No touching.
289
00:16:54,831 --> 00:16:57,771
Not in the kennel, not if
they're in a hiding box or in
290
00:16:57,771 --> 00:16:59,011
the corner of the bathroom.
291
00:16:59,011 --> 00:17:03,041
If they're showing those aggressive
behaviors, let them be and even
292
00:17:03,041 --> 00:17:05,070
just sit there quietly with them.
293
00:17:05,101 --> 00:17:08,820
No reaching towards them, 'cause that
can be very intimidating for them.
294
00:17:08,901 --> 00:17:13,431
But if they're just quietly
sitting, not showing any growling or
295
00:17:13,431 --> 00:17:18,851
aggression, then, just going slowly
offering like cat brushes and things.
296
00:17:19,281 --> 00:17:23,501
I used to be an advocate for those little
mini hands and like reaching towards cats.
297
00:17:23,951 --> 00:17:28,941
Sometimes they work, but sometimes
the cats get freaked out by that
298
00:17:28,941 --> 00:17:32,621
'cause, they know it's not a real
hand and they're not sure what it is.
299
00:17:32,661 --> 00:17:36,641
But that's always an option, but
sometimes it's 50/50 with the cats.
300
00:17:36,841 --> 00:17:40,471
But, just making those gradual
movements towards them.
301
00:17:40,881 --> 00:17:43,861
I always advocate for, give them
your hand, like the back of your
302
00:17:43,861 --> 00:17:46,451
hand and s- see what they do.
303
00:17:46,451 --> 00:17:48,191
Never force your hand on them.
304
00:17:48,301 --> 00:17:51,451
Let the cat come to you, whether
that's just putting the hand
305
00:17:51,451 --> 00:17:53,931
right in front of their nose so
they can smell you and greet you.
306
00:17:54,341 --> 00:17:55,311
That's a huge thing.
307
00:17:55,311 --> 00:18:00,201
Just letting a cat greet you is the first
thing, first step in any interaction
308
00:18:00,201 --> 00:18:03,701
because if you don't greet them, they
don't know what's going on, and that's
309
00:18:03,701 --> 00:18:06,131
when they usually lash out aggressively.
310
00:18:07,089 --> 00:18:11,079
Dixie: When you said that if they're
exhibiting these aggressive signs,
311
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:15,885
growling, hissing, swatting- ... is
there anything that you can do to
312
00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:18,885
calm them down to get them over that?
313
00:18:19,765 --> 00:18:21,245
Berlin: Sometimes food will help.
314
00:18:21,895 --> 00:18:23,035
You know it's tough.
315
00:18:23,385 --> 00:18:27,425
Those kind of cats that are acting
out aggressively once in a home
316
00:18:27,425 --> 00:18:32,375
environment, like a foster situation
sometimes they do need a day or
317
00:18:32,375 --> 00:18:34,135
two if you just brought them home.
318
00:18:34,215 --> 00:18:40,655
But I've found, most of the cats that
I work with once they're, again, in
319
00:18:40,655 --> 00:18:44,485
that calm environment and you're just
give them, show them and reassure
320
00:18:44,485 --> 00:18:47,545
them that you're not there to hurt
them they usually do pretty well.
321
00:18:47,545 --> 00:18:53,015
But if they're acting out aggressively
I wouldn't expect a foster to be able to
322
00:18:53,015 --> 00:18:57,785
do this, but when I have like feral cats
who are still doing this I do the super
323
00:18:57,785 --> 00:19:02,295
mental wrap and the bundle and bond, and
honestly that does help quite a bit, but
324
00:19:02,765 --> 00:19:05,395
that is more advanced cat handling skills.
325
00:19:05,485 --> 00:19:11,415
So if it's a foster or new adopter, just
waiting it out, sitting with, spending
326
00:19:11,415 --> 00:19:16,315
that quality time with them and usually
slowly but surely they just need a little
327
00:19:16,725 --> 00:19:19,085
extra TLC and a little bit of extra time.
328
00:19:19,932 --> 00:19:20,232
Dixie: Yeah.
329
00:19:20,232 --> 00:19:23,642
The one that I was telling you about
earlier, the one that came to me that
330
00:19:23,642 --> 00:19:25,962
was very scared and acting aggressive.
331
00:19:26,322 --> 00:19:31,762
So with him, what I actually did was
we had him kenneled and then we would
332
00:19:31,762 --> 00:19:35,932
of course give him the food, and
after a few days I noticed he wasn't
333
00:19:36,802 --> 00:19:38,472
calming down as much as I would like.
334
00:19:38,472 --> 00:19:39,902
He was still very aggressive.
335
00:19:39,902 --> 00:19:41,912
I put ... a little bit of
catnip in there for him.
336
00:19:42,572 --> 00:19:44,932
That did seem to help calm him down.
337
00:19:44,932 --> 00:19:46,232
And then- Oh, really?
338
00:19:46,442 --> 00:19:46,702
Yeah.
339
00:19:46,732 --> 00:19:49,442
And then it seemed like he
wanted to come out of the kennel,
340
00:19:49,442 --> 00:19:51,232
so I let him out the kennel.
341
00:19:51,232 --> 00:19:54,542
Now I will say- ... when I let him
out the kennel, and I'm not gonna lie
342
00:19:55,192 --> 00:19:57,762
I was a little bit terrified, Yeah.
343
00:19:58,432 --> 00:20:04,212
because he started coming up to me and-
... he came up to me a couple times and he
344
00:20:04,212 --> 00:20:07,902
slapped me on my leg, so I was like,
" i'm gonna give you a pass for that."
345
00:20:08,312 --> 00:20:11,362
... Then he came up to me, like he
would come rub all around me,
346
00:20:11,362 --> 00:20:13,042
and then he would bite my foot.
347
00:20:13,702 --> 00:20:14,182
But it- Oh.
348
00:20:14,252 --> 00:20:18,017
..., it wasn't like a hard bite ... and
it was like almost like a child
349
00:20:18,017 --> 00:20:19,857
throwing, throwing a temper tantrum.
350
00:20:19,857 --> 00:20:20,167
Yep.
351
00:20:20,467 --> 00:20:22,767
Berlin: It's like they get
overstimulated, and that's just
352
00:20:22,767 --> 00:20:24,177
their way of showing you that.
353
00:20:24,267 --> 00:20:24,787
Yes.
354
00:20:24,787 --> 00:20:25,157
Dixie: Yes.
355
00:20:25,187 --> 00:20:29,427
But after that, he wanted to start
jumping on me, so he would jump in my
356
00:20:29,427 --> 00:20:33,457
lap and like for the first few days I
was like absolutely terrified 'cause I'm
357
00:20:33,457 --> 00:20:36,507
like, "Oh my gosh, is he gonna attack
me while he's- Yeah ... in my lap?"
358
00:20:36,557 --> 00:20:38,207
Berlin: That's always nerve-wracking.
359
00:20:38,317 --> 00:20:38,627
Dixie: Yeah.
360
00:20:38,627 --> 00:20:40,047
But he's fine now.
361
00:20:40,147 --> 00:20:41,267
He's absolutely- ... fine.
362
00:20:41,267 --> 00:20:42,717
He's settled in really well.
363
00:20:43,207 --> 00:20:47,337
We already have a potential adopter
for him, and so I of course- Oh, good
364
00:20:47,337 --> 00:20:52,837
... wanted to work with them, and she's very
understanding and she's, very skilled
365
00:20:52,897 --> 00:20:56,477
on introducing a new cat, especially
one that- Oh ... could potentially be
366
00:20:56,477 --> 00:20:58,457
fearful, so that's a good thing for him.
367
00:20:59,277 --> 00:21:03,267
... But another thing I wanted to ask
you about is what about eye contact?
368
00:21:03,267 --> 00:21:06,447
Do you find sometimes when you
have eye contact with them, it
369
00:21:06,447 --> 00:21:08,077
stresses them out a little bit more?
370
00:21:09,047 --> 00:21:09,617
Berlin: I do.
371
00:21:09,747 --> 00:21:12,967
Yeah, I try to stay to the side of them.
372
00:21:13,607 --> 00:21:18,027
I don't try and make a lot of
direct eye contact so I do keep
373
00:21:18,027 --> 00:21:22,147
my eyes just down, but I can still
see them, out of my periphery.
374
00:21:22,907 --> 00:21:26,117
And I try and stay towards the
side and not be with them right
375
00:21:26,117 --> 00:21:27,807
head-on, 'cause that is intimidating.
376
00:21:27,807 --> 00:21:33,937
So kind of catty-corner to them, but
yeah, eye contact in those scared cats
377
00:21:34,297 --> 00:21:37,457
can definitely be intimidating, so I
try to keep it to a minimum at first.
378
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:43,110
Dixie: Do you have any different
tips or suggestions for kittens?
379
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:48,090
I know a lot of the times when you
get a feral kitten, you can work
380
00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:51,760
with them, you can tame them up,
but it just- ... takes like a little
381
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,390
bit of time involved with those.
382
00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:55,510
Do you have any- ... different
advice for kittens?
383
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:57,780
Since, kittens and the cats,
it's a little bit, different
384
00:21:57,780 --> 00:21:59,140
situation for each of those.
385
00:21:59,140 --> 00:21:59,610
Yeah.
386
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:00,460
Berlin: Yeah.
387
00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:05,830
Kittens I do treat quite differently
like feral kittens and stuff, because
388
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:10,950
they, I'm not super worried about, them,
biting me and sending me to the hospital.
389
00:22:10,980 --> 00:22:12,770
I can deal with, a two-pound kitten.
390
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:16,600
And so with them I honestly I give
them a little more tough love than
391
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:22,490
the adult cats because kittens are so
resilient and they're mostly, all bark.
392
00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:27,420
They are vocal or hissing and, you need
to show them that, "Hey, I know you're
393
00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:31,810
not, I know you're scared, but, this
is what's gonna happen and we're gonna
394
00:22:31,810 --> 00:22:33,910
interact whether you like it or not."
395
00:22:33,910 --> 00:22:36,520
You need a little tough love to
show them those manners that they
396
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,660
need to build and a lot of times
that works pretty well for kittens.
397
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:45,430
And so I try to not give them as many
hiding spots either because they need
398
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:47,310
to build that confidence on their own.
399
00:22:47,310 --> 00:22:51,550
And so it's just a lot of figuring
those little things out as they're
400
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,070
understanding what's right and what's
wrong and what's kind of behavior
401
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:56,390
is acceptable and what's not.
402
00:22:57,197 --> 00:22:58,647
Dixie: I do have another question.
403
00:22:58,827 --> 00:23:01,357
You might- Yeah ... be able to
give some advice on this as well.
404
00:23:01,797 --> 00:23:07,327
Being a cat rescue, we get all
different ages in, and the ultimate
405
00:23:07,327 --> 00:23:09,207
goal, of course, is adoption for them.
406
00:23:09,257 --> 00:23:15,067
And if we go to an adoption event,
of course, this is gonna mean taking
407
00:23:15,067 --> 00:23:19,767
these cats and you're gonna put them
in these cages at an adoption center.
408
00:23:20,457 --> 00:23:25,667
A lot of the times the kittens don't
care, and if you get kittens there-, they
409
00:23:25,667 --> 00:23:29,717
might be scared for a half hour, and then
after a half hour they're absolutely fine.
410
00:23:30,677 --> 00:23:35,527
But you will get the case when you
have a very social, very friendly
411
00:23:35,567 --> 00:23:40,897
adult cat, and you get them to an
adoption center and they are terrified.
412
00:23:41,247 --> 00:23:44,507
And I know- ... some of them usually
it'll take maybe two days and they
413
00:23:44,507 --> 00:23:48,187
settle in fine, but for other ones
it does take a little bit longer.
414
00:23:48,517 --> 00:23:53,067
Do you have any suggestions of things
that you can do to help those cats,
415
00:23:53,067 --> 00:23:57,937
those ones that might not acclimate
well to the cages in these adoption
416
00:23:57,937 --> 00:23:59,517
centers after being there a day or two?
417
00:23:59,517 --> 00:23:59,867
Yeah.
418
00:24:00,923 --> 00:24:01,273
Berlin: Yeah.
419
00:24:01,303 --> 00:24:02,803
It's definitely tough.
420
00:24:02,913 --> 00:24:04,543
Again, just working with them.
421
00:24:04,573 --> 00:24:07,613
It's very hard when you have
tons of people coming in and out.
422
00:24:08,013 --> 00:24:13,283
One thing I like to, advocate for is,
at least marketing them appropriately.
423
00:24:13,283 --> 00:24:16,983
So if you have had them at the shelter
and you've had good interactions,
424
00:24:16,983 --> 00:24:20,063
take videos of that, take videos
of them having a good time.
425
00:24:20,063 --> 00:24:24,373
Making, make them look as good as possible
so if people do ask about them, you
426
00:24:24,373 --> 00:24:28,843
have video proof and evidence to show
them that these are wonderful cats.
427
00:24:28,843 --> 00:24:31,313
They're just really scared
here at this adoption center.
428
00:24:31,713 --> 00:24:35,823
Same thing with the cats at the shelter,
they do just need that reassurance.
429
00:24:36,263 --> 00:24:40,903
And so trying to get them, work with
them a little bit one-on-one can help.
430
00:24:40,903 --> 00:24:45,253
But usually, at those adoption events
it's very hard to get them out of their
431
00:24:45,253 --> 00:24:47,323
shell in such a short period of time.
432
00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:51,910
Dixie: Would you recommend putting
a box in there for them to hide?
433
00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:53,410
'Cause I know a lot of places- Oh, yes
434
00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:54,030
will do that.
435
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:55,420
Berlin: Definitely.
436
00:24:55,420 --> 00:25:00,240
I feel any cat at adoption center
or shelter or vet clinic, wherever,
437
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,110
any cat that is being kenneled for
any reason, I believe should always
438
00:25:04,110 --> 00:25:09,470
have a hiding box whether that's a
cardboard box or a carrier or something.
439
00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:11,020
That definitely helps them cope.
440
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,600
It doesn't look the best to
potential adopters, but that does
441
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,780
help them relieve their stress.
442
00:25:17,715 --> 00:25:20,735
Dixie: Yeah, I tend to
do the boxes as well.
443
00:25:21,185 --> 00:25:26,595
And I, I always advocate for finding
the right home for them, and I'm
444
00:25:26,595 --> 00:25:27,705
very- ... upfront with people.
445
00:25:27,705 --> 00:25:31,455
If I think it's not gonna work out,
if they're used to a quiet environment
446
00:25:31,495 --> 00:25:35,465
and they're gonna be going into- ... a
noisy environment I'll always be vocal
447
00:25:35,465 --> 00:25:38,275
about that and say, I don't think
that-" this one might not work for you."
448
00:25:38,365 --> 00:25:38,425
Yeah.
449
00:25:39,135 --> 00:25:39,385
Berlin: Yeah.
450
00:25:40,383 --> 00:25:41,313
Yeah, it depends.
451
00:25:41,403 --> 00:25:45,173
If you have the information of what kind
of home they came from can definitely
452
00:25:45,173 --> 00:25:48,093
help, put them in similar housing.
453
00:25:48,143 --> 00:25:52,473
But I do try to, give them the benefit
of the doubt 'cause a lot of times,
454
00:25:52,763 --> 00:25:56,923
no matter how scared they are at the
shelter, I've seen so many cats that
455
00:25:56,923 --> 00:26:01,503
were just absolutely aggressive or
absolutely scared out of their mind.
456
00:26:02,073 --> 00:26:05,773
Once they're back into, a home that
the person is, just knows that they
457
00:26:05,773 --> 00:26:09,663
need a little TLC, they, blossom into
cats that I didn't think possible.
458
00:26:09,673 --> 00:26:13,523
I always try to give them the benefit
of the doubt, but I do try and, advocate
459
00:26:13,523 --> 00:26:16,923
for the ones that, try and, find
a, the best home for them for sure.
460
00:26:17,753 --> 00:26:22,163
Dixie: Before we end the call,
what advice would you have for
461
00:26:22,163 --> 00:26:26,723
people who are out there just
trying to rehome their adult cats?
462
00:26:27,543 --> 00:26:30,653
That don't know that these adult
cats can shut down like this and
463
00:26:30,653 --> 00:26:32,393
act like a- totally different cat.
464
00:26:32,453 --> 00:26:37,203
'Cause my experience- Yeah ... is when
people are trying to give away their cats
465
00:26:37,203 --> 00:26:41,393
or rehome their cats, say on social media
or wherever- ... they're always like, "Oh,
466
00:26:41,393 --> 00:26:43,583
this is a very, very sweet, friendly cat.
467
00:26:43,583 --> 00:26:44,683
He's 10 years old."
468
00:26:44,753 --> 00:26:48,413
And I find- ... you'll try to
always offer people advice and be
469
00:26:48,413 --> 00:26:51,373
like, "Look, it's gonna be a slow
transition for a 10-year-old cat."
470
00:26:51,413 --> 00:26:55,103
What advice- Yeah ... would you
have for people that are out there
471
00:26:55,143 --> 00:26:58,363
rehoming their cats thinking that
their cats are like a dog and
472
00:26:58,363 --> 00:26:59,803
they're just gonna fit in anywhere?
473
00:26:59,803 --> 00:27:02,993
Berlin: And that's the hardest thing
and, 'cause it's not that, even if,
474
00:27:03,223 --> 00:27:06,863
they know the person who's trying to
rehome them, even if they know that
475
00:27:06,863 --> 00:27:11,403
their cat might take a little extra
time, might become aggressive, it's
476
00:27:11,403 --> 00:27:16,193
also up to the person taking in that cat
to realize This might take some time.
477
00:27:16,423 --> 00:27:18,173
This cat might shut down for a little bit.
478
00:27:18,173 --> 00:27:20,373
So it's honestly a cultural thing.
479
00:27:20,593 --> 00:27:24,853
There's always been this negative
perception of cats in general
480
00:27:24,853 --> 00:27:28,853
that I've noticed in, just our
culture, and so it is hard.
481
00:27:28,883 --> 00:27:34,233
And, as much as you don't want people
to rehome their cats, sometimes life
482
00:27:34,263 --> 00:27:38,733
happens and it does need to happen, or
owners pass away and it's unavoidable.
483
00:27:39,083 --> 00:27:45,003
So just, letting people know that
cats exhibit fear often aggressively,
484
00:27:45,003 --> 00:27:50,033
and they take a lot longer than dogs
to, acclimate to new environments.
485
00:27:50,033 --> 00:27:55,793
And so just the general basics of cat
behavior is something I think everyone
486
00:27:55,793 --> 00:28:00,093
needs to be aware of, whether you're
adopting a new cat or rehoming your
487
00:28:00,193 --> 00:28:01,833
cat that you've had for a long time.
488
00:28:02,193 --> 00:28:06,683
Just that's what my website is all
about too, is just broadening public
489
00:28:06,683 --> 00:28:08,753
knowledge of cat behavior as a whole.
490
00:28:09,575 --> 00:28:13,065
Dixie: Yeah, I think that's great advice
too, because one of the things that I
491
00:28:13,065 --> 00:28:17,765
see is when people are rehoming them, the
people that are going to take them might
492
00:28:17,805 --> 00:28:19,885
not have any experience with cats at all.
493
00:28:20,375 --> 00:28:23,405
And, and it's upsetting to know that
they might not know what they're
494
00:28:23,405 --> 00:28:27,255
getting into, and when you try to offer
people advice on it, I find that people
495
00:28:27,305 --> 00:28:28,855
aren't always receptive about it.
496
00:28:29,455 --> 00:28:32,835
Berlin: Yep, and that's very
true, and it's very frustrating,
497
00:28:32,835 --> 00:28:34,435
but, you do what you can.
498
00:28:34,435 --> 00:28:39,395
And so if they're not gonna take my,
advice, upfront, I at least like to
499
00:28:39,395 --> 00:28:44,425
try and offer, brochures or websites
or things they can look up in their own
500
00:28:44,425 --> 00:28:48,135
time, if they do get home and realize,
"Oh, shoot, this cat isn't acting how I
501
00:28:48,135 --> 00:28:52,635
wanted it to," "Let me see what else I
can, find on the online or something."
502
00:28:53,165 --> 00:28:54,375
And what is your website?
503
00:28:55,205 --> 00:28:57,285
Thespicycatproject.com.
504
00:28:57,935 --> 00:29:01,375
Dixie: I'm so glad that you came up
with that because it is something that
505
00:29:01,415 --> 00:29:03,625
I will definitely refer people to.
506
00:29:04,715 --> 00:29:05,035
Berlin: Thank you.
507
00:29:05,035 --> 00:29:05,815
I appreciate that.
508
00:29:05,815 --> 00:29:06,165
Yeah.
509
00:29:06,505 --> 00:29:06,655
Yeah.
510
00:29:06,655 --> 00:29:12,095
As, even, people you think say they
know about cats, often find themselves
511
00:29:12,095 --> 00:29:15,905
in situations where they didn't,
realize cats did take that, longer
512
00:29:15,905 --> 00:29:19,465
than normal or, oh, they're aggressive
because they're scared, it's just
513
00:29:19,635 --> 00:29:24,685
simple things like that, just getting
the word out about, all the subtleties
514
00:29:24,685 --> 00:29:26,835
of cat behaviors and just the basics.
515
00:29:26,835 --> 00:29:30,705
And so that's what my whole project
is aimed for, towards not just
516
00:29:30,705 --> 00:29:32,835
shelters, but also the general public.
517
00:29:33,295 --> 00:29:37,925
. Dixie: I try to be an advocate whenever
I see something and I can comment on it.
518
00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:41,535
I always try to advocate for the cats
and to let people know 'cause I think
519
00:29:41,535 --> 00:29:42,975
it's important for people to know.
520
00:29:43,565 --> 00:29:47,935
But being able to direct them to your
website is wonderful And not only
521
00:29:47,935 --> 00:29:53,175
that, like even when I'm adopting out
a cat and I go through all the basics
522
00:29:53,225 --> 00:29:55,645
with everybody, do this- do this, yep.
523
00:29:55,655 --> 00:29:57,535
I'm always, "Small room.
524
00:29:57,535 --> 00:29:59,205
You've gotta start out in a small room.
525
00:29:59,235 --> 00:30:00,855
Never start out in a large room."
526
00:30:00,905 --> 00:30:05,155
And people listen, but sometimes
they don't listen, so I think- Yeah.
527
00:30:05,155 --> 00:30:07,795
... telling them, "Okay, go
to this website and look.
528
00:30:07,795 --> 00:30:11,735
She's got some great advice on there,"
I do really think that will help.
529
00:30:12,802 --> 00:30:13,512
Berlin: I hope so.
530
00:30:13,512 --> 00:30:17,382
Yeah, I've found that being as a vet
tech for many years before, even when
531
00:30:17,382 --> 00:30:21,302
you tell people, about their pets at
their vet appointment, things go in
532
00:30:21,302 --> 00:30:24,322
one ear and out the other 'cause it's
just so much information at once.
533
00:30:24,322 --> 00:30:28,442
So giving them a physical copy or a
website to go to definitely, I think,
534
00:30:28,442 --> 00:30:32,112
helps, helps them retain some of that
information, or at least they can look
535
00:30:32,112 --> 00:30:37,322
back on it so they can see and when they
have a more clear space to look up things.
536
00:30:38,242 --> 00:30:41,532
Dixie: Thank you for being an advocate
for the cats, and thank you for
537
00:30:41,532 --> 00:30:44,562
coming on the show to tell everybody
about this, and I'm gonna include
538
00:30:44,562 --> 00:30:46,002
your website in the show links, too.
539
00:30:47,052 --> 00:30:47,892
Berlin: Oh, that's awesome.
540
00:30:47,892 --> 00:30:50,242
I really appreciate that, and
thanks for all the work you do.
541
00:30:51,122 --> 00:30:53,612
Dixie: That's it for today's
episode of Animal Posse.
542
00:30:53,642 --> 00:30:56,582
If you love what we're doing,
please consider becoming a member.
543
00:30:56,822 --> 00:31:00,932
Your support directly helps us continue
highlighting the people and stories
544
00:31:00,932 --> 00:31:02,552
that save lives across the country.
545
00:31:02,972 --> 00:31:06,272
Just a quick reminder, the views
and opinions expressed by our
546
00:31:06,272 --> 00:31:10,292
guests are theirs alone and are
provided for entertainment purposes.
547
00:31:10,502 --> 00:31:11,792
They don't necessarily.
548
00:31:11,832 --> 00:31:16,452
reflect the official position of the show,
and this information should never replace
549
00:31:16,452 --> 00:31:18,792
the advice of your own veterinarian.
550
00:31:18,965 --> 00:31:21,215
Thanks for listening, and
we'll see you next time.
