CTO Wisdom with Sushma Nallapeta | Beyond the Program

Welcome to CTO Wisdom. In this series, we interview technical leaders who have stepped into executive positions.

Today’s guest host, Eric Brooke, speaks with Sushma Nallapeta, CTO of Trusted Health.

About today’s guest: As CTO of Trusted Health, Sue Nallapeta leads an organization of over 100 technologists, reimagining healthcare staffing with a core mission of helping people find care. With a background in Computer Science, Sue has over a decade of experience across various consumer facing businesses, marketplaces and enterprise software. She has navigated the landscapes of both public companies and startups, weathering numerous acquisitions on both ends of the spectrum. She has built highly performant, vastly scalable engineering systems that have touched millions of customers and led product and technology innovations that have contributed to top line company growth.

About today’s host: Eric Brooke has a rich and varied leadership career - leading up to 21,000 people and Billions in revenue, throughout 14 countries. In their career, they have been an Executive six times (e.g. President, CEO, CMO, and CTO) and a Board member of multiple organisations. Eric has been a CTO of scaling startups from 0 to 120 engineers. As an adviser and mentor, they have helped multiple other startups scale both in Canada and the US. As well as supporting multiple startup incubators such as 1871 in Chicago and TechStars.

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Hey, listeners, Tim Winkler here, your host of The Pair Program.

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Eric Brooke: Welcome to CTO Wisdom.

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My name is Eric Brooke.

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This series will talk to leaders

of technology at organizations.

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We'll understand their career, what

was successful and what was not and

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what they learned along the way.

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We'll also look at what the

tech market is doing today.

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We'll understand where they gather

their intelligence so they can grow

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and scale with their organizations.

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Welcome.

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My name is Eric Brookee and welcome

to CTO Wisdom today with Sue.

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Hey, Sue.

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Sushma Nallapeta: Hi, Eric.

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Nice to be talking to you today

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Eric Brooke: and to you.

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Thank you for coming on today.

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Could you give me your

elevator pitch, please?

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Sushma Nallapeta: Yes, I am soon.

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I'll update.

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I'm currently the CTO at trusted health.

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Trusted.

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Health is a health care marketplace

company, a leading labor marketplace

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and workforce management platform

for health care workforce.

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We mainly focus on travel

nurses and allied professionals.

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Our mission is to help people everywhere,

get care and we are transforming the

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travel industry and making it more modern.

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We are a CDC company and 300 employees,

a hundred people in engineering.

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Eric Brooke: Cool.

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Thank you for that.

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Um, let's talk about your journey.

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What was it like when you

started in your journey?

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What were you passionate

about in technology?

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How did you get started?

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Sushma Nallapeta: It's a funny story.

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Actually, two names come to my

mind, uh, when I think about

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how I got into technology.

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It's Dave and Keen.

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They're not people.

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They are characters in a very famous

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Um, I think mid nineties,

early nineties timeframe.

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I grew up in India.

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I got access to computers when

I was in middle school and I

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was super crazy about games.

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Every time I got a chance, you know,

uh, to go to the lab, we would just

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go type in some DOS commands and

then start playing some DOS games.

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And so that was a thing.

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Um, I, that's what kind of got me

super excited to continue to explore

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the world of computer science.

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And, uh, I also wanted to

study computer science.

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So, which I did, I did

my bachelor's in India.

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I was at that time, I was super impressed

when the IBM's deep blue program came

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out where it defeated a very famous chess

player and then IBM Watson happened.

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So I was following that.

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Uh, journey and that got me super

excited to pursue the world of A.

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I.

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If you think about, um, you know, A.

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I.

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has been around for a long time and, uh,

IBM actually was a pioneer in a lot of

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stuff that they tried back in the day.

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So that got me excited.

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Then I came to the United States,

uh, to pursue my graduate degree.

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And, uh, and that's where

my technology journey began.

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Eric Brooke: Um, so you got,

you're in America, you're working,

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um, as a software engineer.

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And, Question mark.

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Sushma Nallapeta: Yeah.

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So, uh, initially I was doing

research under a couple of professors

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back in, uh, university of Texas.

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Uh, and then, uh, after that,

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December 2007 job market was in a

very bad state, uh, at that time.

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So, and then, so I got into consulting.

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So I was doing a lot of, uh, I

joined as a software engineer.

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I was doing a lot of e commerce.

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Uh, software building and it gave

me a very strong foundation because

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especially when you're in consulting,

you're already talking to customers.

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You're trying to understand their problem.

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You're trying to figure out different

technologies, different choices of

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languages, and so it gave me a breadth

as well as depth, uh, early on in my

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career that I was very fortunate for.

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I did everything from Lotus

Notes administration, if

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you remember Lotus Notes.

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To front end back in development,

all of those things, um, and, uh, you

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know, I was very excited about learning

new things and new technologies.

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And slowly, as I started interacting

more and more with customers,

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that's where I started to feel.

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Passion for really connecting business

and technology and and then people.

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So it's really the, um, uh,

attachment of all the things.

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Eric Brooke: Awesome.

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So you're traveling a journey as an

engineer, like, um, at what stage did you

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start considering about managing humans?

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Sushma Nallapeta: Yep.

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When I was at that company, I started

to kind of play the role of a tech lead.

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And so, uh, and the more, uh, the

more I started to play that role,

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uh, and started to mentor junior

engineers, I kind of knew like, I'm

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really passionate about management.

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I wanted to bring the best in people.

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And I often found myself not just

telling them, Hey, do this project,

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do this work, but connecting the dots.

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It's like, here's the end goal.

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We're building an e commerce site.

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Here's how many people

it's going to serve.

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Like, here's the product and why that's

important, what the company is trying

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to do, and then connect the dot back to,

if you build this one feature, what's

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the impact that you're going to have?

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Uh, and so that's when I didn't even

know what management was uh, back then.

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So I was like, but this is

something that I want to do.

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I did, I talked to some

people, did some research.

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I was like, okay I want to be a manager.

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I went and talked to my boss, um,

and said, I want to be a manager.

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And he's like, you're crazy.

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Uh, management is like,

you know, uh, useless.

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You, you are a very good techie.

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You should pursue that out of architecture

and be, be an architect someday.

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And so then I slept on

it for six more months.

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I was like, no, I really want to be.

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a manager and that became

more and more real.

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Um, so then I actually, uh, joined

Kodak Gallery, uh, which was a startup

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at that time acquired and owned by

Eastman Kodak, um, the, the camera

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and film company, uh, as a manager.

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Eric Brooke: So what were the things

that you would say in hindsight that

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you'd learned from the transition from

engineer to manager that you didn't

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necessarily perceive at the beginning?

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Sushma Nallapeta: Um, I think one,

obviously, when I first became a manager,

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uh, what became very obvious to me is.

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It's always about people.

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It's always about managing expectations,

and it has nothing to do with your

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actual software engineering skill set.

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For a long time, I tried to really stay

close to technology, really keep my hands

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dirty, do a lot of hands on coding and

stuff, but then I was actually not doing

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a lot of, like, different parts of my job.

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Which is managing stakeholder

expectations, sometimes really figuring

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out a delivery and really figuring

out processes and things like that.

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And I think that was a

huge realization for me.

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Um, the second big thing that became

very obvious is how do I manage up?

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Because a lot of times it's very

easy to manage down, manage out.

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You're always, you're talking

to your team all the time.

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Uh, you have built a solid relationship.

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But really struggled a lot with managing

up and figuring out exactly, like, what

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type of information to send upwards?

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What makes sense?

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And what do they want to hear?

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What are their goals?

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And how do I make sure that I'm

connecting the dots and stuff?

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So that those were some

very early learnings.

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One interesting thing that happened is,

The company went through bankruptcy.

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The parent company, Kodak,

went through bankruptcy.

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So our company that focused on e commerce

photo products, we went through a series

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of, uh, you know, uh, situations where

we didn't know what was going to happen.

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If we were going to survive, if we

were going to become independent,

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are we going to get sold?

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Are we going to get shut down?

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So we didn't know that.

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And so the leadership actually had

us all focus on building a brand

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new product and which we did.

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And so we're just going through that

adversity and figuring out how to lead a

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team, because you can be too transparent

and say, we actually don't know if we

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could shut down in 3 months, but you also

have to balance that with motivation.

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It's like, okay, you have nothing.

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To gain other than experience, and

you literally could have no job

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in three months, but let's all get

excited and do this one last thing.

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Um, so that was, I think, years of

learning bagged into a few months.

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Eric Brooke: Yeah, absolutely.

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Very stressful, but a great

opportunity at the same time.

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How did it pan out?

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Sushma Nallapeta: The company actually,

so we launched this new product.

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It was a huge success.

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Unfortunately, the parent

company had sold us off to shut

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or fly, which was a competitor.

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And it was like, just for peanuts.

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They just wanted to acquire

the website and technology.

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Um, and so everybody pretty

much lost their jobs.

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Uh, but I think having having gone

through that, I think the whole company

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had bonded and we had really accomplished

something before we actually left.

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So everybody had picked up new skills.

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Everybody had learned a lot of

managing through difficult situation.

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So.

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Uh, we all went on to find other jobs

and, uh, figure out our next, uh, journey.

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Eric Brooke: Cool.

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What happens next?

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Sushma Nallapeta: So I was on a, uh, a

visa and I came close to like, you know,

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uh, almost getting out of the country

because I couldn't find another job.

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And here I was like one year

of management experience.

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Um, and you know, everybody was

like offering me IC roles and I

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struggled to really figure it out.

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Uh, you know, do I want to go back

to being individual contributor or

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do I want to stay in management?

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My passion was with management.

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And I knew I didn't want to go back,

but the opportunities surrounding me,

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me were, um, you know, all I see roles

and it was a desperate situation.

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Uh, however, I kind of continue to

tell myself and just learn new skills,

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keep trying, and then, uh, I did get a

job as an engineering manager, uh, at

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Blackhawk network, which was a payments

and a gift card company, and it was

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still private when I joined, um, and.

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Pretty soon we went public and

went through a rapid growth.

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I went from taking on one team to

two to three and four and continue to

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learn a lot of things along the way.

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And we also went through a lot

of, um, acquisitions and MNA

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where we acquired, I think, almost

10 companies when I was there.

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Uh, so really figuring out how to

merge the tech stacks, um, and how to

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just go through scale and grow was.

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A lot of learning again,

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Eric Brooke: so could I go back

to that moment when you're kind

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of adding teams so you get to

your third and your fourth team?

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What are the things that you felt

that you had to do differently

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as an engineer manager?

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Because that's obviously a lot workload.

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Can you remember, like, what

were the things that you changed?

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Sushma Nallapeta: I think number

one, like, you really figured out

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pretty quickly that you cannot really

be an expert in every technology

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that the team is working on.

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So initially I had, I was managing like

a full stack, but mostly front end team.

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And then I took on mobile.

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And I had never worked in mobile,

uh, neither iOS or Android.

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And this was my first time.

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And I had to really manage a

team and learn to manage a team

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for a technology that I do not

even know how to, um, go about.

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And then that that's one thing

that comes along with it.

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And then very soon you need

to start scaling yourself up.

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Uh, it's very easy to manage.

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Maybe a couple of teams have

even managed like almost 13, 14

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people directly at one point.

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And, but very soon it's not scalable.

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You can't go through 14 performance

reviews, have career conversations.

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Some point you need to start figuring out

how to build leaders or you'd hire leaders

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from outside or build them yourself.

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And, and a lot of times you're

like, what type of leader do I want?

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How do I even go about.

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Building those leaders.

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So I think those were some

interesting questions that went

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through my mind at that time.

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It's how do I create redundancy?

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Um, and then when I brought on those

managers, and now I had four teams,

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four managers reporting to me, and

then I went through this phase almost

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like for a few weeks and a month,

not knowing what my role was anymore.

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Because I was like, Okay, now

I don't know what's happening.

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All these managers are capable.

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They're all doing their things now.

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So what should be my role?

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How do I guide them?

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Am I even needed at this point?

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And it took a while for me to figure out

that actually now it's no longer about

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execution, but it's also connecting.

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The strategy with execution and there

is nobody in between to do that.

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And that's the role that

I need to be playing.

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So it took a while to really click, um,

that that's what I need to be doing.

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Eric Brooke: So, yeah,

let's explore that further.

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Cause it's quite a, a step change.

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One minute you're in kind of direct

contact with people and the next minute

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you're managing through managers.

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So in hindsight, um, when looking

back at managing managers, what

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did you learn from that journey?

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Sushma Nallapeta: It was a

very interesting journey.

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When I started to take on these

managers, I think one of the first

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things I realized is you cannot

really have a full understanding

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of everything everybody is doing.

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And you have to figure out one, how to

get that information from your manager

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to how to enable your manager and give

them space to make those decisions

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that you no longer are privy to.

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Thank you.

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And then three, you also have to figure

out how to remove their blind spots.

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And so that's a little tricky because

one, you don't know if you need to wait

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for your manager to come to you, uh,

with problems or do you, or you see

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the problem happening, do you just dive

right in and start to help them out?

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And I think it takes a little

bit of time to balance that out.

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So I went through those struggles myself.

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It's, uh, I have micromanaged

sometimes and annoyed my managers.

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I've empowered too much and then also

suffered from them not giving me the

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right information and me communicating

the wrong information upward and so on.

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So it's, um, those are some interesting

challenges that you go through

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when you're managing managers.

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And the 2nd thing is also about

understanding the sphere of influence.

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It's, if you're a manager, your

sphere is probably limited to your

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team and the stakeholders like

PMs that you closely work with.

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But as you go to managing managers,

now your sphere has just exploded.

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It's no longer just your team and their

stakeholders, but you have your own

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stakeholders and you also have upper

management that you need to manage.

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And so you have to figure out

different types of communication

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across all these different levels.

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Eric Brooke: Yeah, it's a lot of work.

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It's a very different type

of work, as you rightly say.

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So that's great.

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Okay, continue the journey

for us, please, Sue.

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Sushma Nallapeta: Yeah, so I

was there for almost five years.

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I managed managers, built a

lot of systems, scale systems.

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And I felt like I was missing, um,

really like figuring out what being

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an executive looks like, or even

furthering my leadership journey.

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Uh, at that time, um, you know, uh, I

had a couple of opportunities to pursue

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and I was very excited about, uh, you

know, consumer in general, consumer

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tech impacting millions of people.

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So I joined this online

dating company called Zoosk.

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Okay.

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And it was very exciting problem to solve.

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I joined them as a senior director.

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Uh, I was, I had taken on like all

of the applications teams and they

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were going through a very interesting

phase, um, because they had gone

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through a big growth journey.

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Uh, they had tried an IPO and at

that time decided IPO was not,

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they were not ready for an IPO.

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I had stopped and then they were

continuing to really make their

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operations super efficient.

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And so I joined at that juncture.

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Uh, so they were, I think, half

mature and half, like, chaotic.

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So it was like a perfect blend for

me to come and solve some problems

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and bring some calm to the chaos.

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And then also learn from things that

are really working and figuring out how

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to continue to scale and enable that.

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Um, I, I think I was in that role

probably for nine, ten months.

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Uh, this when the company went through

a lot of changes, the CEO left the my of

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engineering left and then immediately the

interim CEO is like, hey, I need you to

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take on, uh, being the head of engineering

and my 1st response to him was.

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I don't know if I can do this.

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And so then both my SVP

and, uh, who was leaving.

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And then the CEO was like, one, we

absolutely believe you can do this.

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That's why we are asking you to take

this on and to don't ever say that

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to a CEO again, even if you don't

know how to do something, it's okay.

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You have to always show confidence.

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So that was my first.

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Learning of, um, you know, how

executive communication actually works

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and how you should always show up.

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Uh, and I think that lesson

has I've taken on that lesson

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at the board level and across.

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Um, various different levels.

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I took on, uh, the head

of engineering role.

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I took on every pretty much all of the

team's infrastructure data engineering.

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Um, you know, we were also migrating

from a data center to cloud.

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So we had all these

tech ops folks as well.

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So there was a huge, um, migration

plan that we were taking on.

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And security, because it

was an online dating site.

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We had a ton of personal information.

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We were always prone to attacks people

trying to do account takeovers and stuff.

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So really like dive into like 5 different

areas that I'd never managed before.

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And especially security.

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And with all these problems, I was

playing the role of a CISO, I was

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playing the role of a CTO and, uh,

like trying to balance everything.

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Um, so it was a lot of learning.

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Uh, uh, the, finally we had a new CEO

who came in, who sold the company, uh,

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and my journey there ended and I moved

to my previous company, Apartmentalist,

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another marketplace business,

um, which was in a renting space.

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Eric Brooke: So before we move on

to that, talk to us about like.

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Um, the head of engineering, how that

differed from being like the director.

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Now you've got all of these

technologies, all of these people.

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Um, what were the things that you

learned in that part of your journey?

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Sushma Nallapeta: So many

different, uh, lessons.

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I think one, you have to make, be

willing to make really difficult choices.

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Uh, about people and, and some of these

people are people that everybody loves.

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They have very good relationship, but you

zoom out and then you start to look at

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the org as puzzle pieces and figure out

what does not fit anymore and who are your

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detractors and who are the people who are

really trying to push the company forward.

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And that's a very tough place to

be because you literally went from

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having a lot of these people as

peers to now becoming their leader

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and having to make some tough

decisions to even like, let them go.

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So, I went through that immediately

as I took on, I started to understand

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org and figure out, like, what's

working, what's not working and I do.

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Really part ways with some senior folks,

uh, in the business and, uh, try to

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really change up our arc structure to

be more future proof and like thinking

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about where the company is going.

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And as expected, it didn't go as well

because some people were excited,

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adverse emotional reaction to it.

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Uh, once I had to QA department because.

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I was like, we need to make sure

that we're moving towards automation.

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The QA engineers need to have a

career path, so they need to be

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part of the engineering team.

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It doesn't make sense for them to have

a separate organization because always

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the engineers would throw things over

the wall and say it's QA's problem.

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So I wanted to eliminate

that and be more efficient.

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But the QA engineers were

like, We don't get this.

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Like, why are you doing this?

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Why are you getting rid of a leader?

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And, you know, we don't want to

be part of this team and so on.

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So it took a while and a lot of

messaging and building confidence

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in the teams of what exactly I was

trying to do and why it was important.

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And honestly, like, I didn't even

know if I made those right decisions

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until I actually left the company.

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And then some of these engineers

reached out and said that was the

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best decision ever because they,

they had all changed their careers.

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They had moved on and

learned new skills and.

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And they had moved on to become

software engineers from QA.

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Eric Brooke: Yeah.

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Change is difficult for all humans.

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Um, but it does give us opportunities

if we can free frame it in our own mind.

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So love to hear that.

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So you've gone to your next

organization, as you said, after this

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organization, tell us about that.

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Sushma Nallapeta: Yes.

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So, um, it was founder led, uh,

one of the co founders, uh, hired

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me, uh, uh, and then, uh, you know,

I was leading all of engineering.

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The team was pretty small when

I came in, it was about 25.

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So I'd gone from managing a

bigger team to a smaller team.

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Um, but the company was growing

pretty quickly in my first year.

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I think I doubled the team.

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And then again, second year, another

significant growth milestone, and

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we had to double the team again.

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Um, but while doing all of that,

I think what I realized one,

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the way we were doing product

management was also very different.

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Um, we were, we had a lot of traffic,

so we were, we were able to run a lot

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of tests, how our approach to product

strategy, our approach to design.

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Everything was different

from what I had been used to.

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So that was a lot of exciting

learning in those years.

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And then pandemic hit.

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And it was a whole new world.

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The company went from, you know, being

in person to completely remote and

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we, I'm going through this phase of

unknown because if you think about

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pandemic and rental industry, nobody was

moving for like a period of 45 months.

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So the macro was like, really in

a bad shape and we didn't know

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how long it was going to last.

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People were just staying

put where they were.

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Nobody was paying rent.

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Nobody was like, you

know, changing leases.

421

So, the property managers were complaining

to us saying, you know, I can't even

422

evict anyone who's not paying rent

and then no new renters were moving.

423

So, we went through a very tough phase.

424

Um, and, you know, we had to, uh, do

layoffs and, you know, doing my first

425

layoff was very hard because, you know, we

got to a point where we were like, okay,

426

you know, you start to have an approach

and a method to doing these layoffs.

427

There's never a right way, but you

kind of start to pick your list.

428

You talk to your managers and figure

out, uh, you know, um, who are the people

429

and stuff, but eventually you get to a

place where you need to go deep deeper.

430

And then when you have to cut

even deeper, then you have

431

all these hard conversations.

432

And 1 such conversation was with 1

of my directors, where we were trying

433

to make a decision of do I cut a

manager or like, do I cut an engineer?

434

And then he basically said.

435

No, let let me volunteer for it

like you need all these people.

436

These are great, but you

don't need another layer or

437

at least a period of time.

438

So let me volunteer.

439

I'll be part of this.

440

I'll help you transition.

441

And that was a very hard thing

for me, because if someone that

442

I saw highly, um, you know, like,

basically volunteer himself.

443

So going through that was like, again,

a whole new experience and lesson.

444

And then, you know, uh, the

company turned around after the

445

pandemic, things started to go well.

446

Um, and I also started to get involved

a lot more within product and I

447

got a lot of opportunity to kind

of really figure out how to drive

448

business outcomes through technology.

449

And we've did a lot of initiatives that

really contributed to top line growth.

450

That was super exciting.

451

Um, and so that was my, I think almost

four year journey at ApartmentList.

452

Eric Brooke: Wow.

453

Um, Courage from your director, um,

but also a tough time for anyone in

454

leadership during COVID, let alone the

people that obviously are laid off.

455

Um, after the layoff, how did the team do?

456

What were the things that you felt that

you and what was left of management

457

had to do to support the current

team, um, that was still employed?

458

Sushma Nallapeta: I think the

biggest fear that the team

459

goes through is, is this done?

460

Uh, like they're, they're always looking,

uh, around their shoulder, figuring

461

out when is the next one coming, what's

going to happen, that fear of unknown.

462

Number one, and then two, as

leadership, we have to do a

463

lot to build that confidence.

464

Yes, we made, uh, we took a

big decision to eliminate a

465

lot of roles in the company.

466

And, and, but now what, like, what is our

strategy and why do we think eliminating

467

these roles is actually going to help

us in the near term when we need to

468

do all these things and we need all

the people to help build those things.

469

So, I think that is very key, especially

as an executive team to build that

470

confidence, but to do a lot of that,

like, understanding what our strategy is

471

figuring out, like, how to communicate it

and then seeing that over and over again.

472

Because you're never done, uh,

you have to repeat it, uh, until,

473

like, people really get it.

474

Like, when you start getting tired of

repeating it, now you know that you've

475

done your job and then they got it.

476

Um, so, I think those are a couple of big

things that stand out to me, especially

477

after, like, the riff and the layoff.

478

And then starting to

build the team back up.

479

Because it's 1 part is, yes, you

eliminated the role you're done.

480

But then again, when the next

performance review cycle comes,

481

how do you measure performance?

482

How do you set them up for success?

483

Now, if you have a manager who had 4 or

5 people, and now they have 2, like, how

484

do you kind of build their career growth?

485

And what does that look like?

486

Because you have a lot of people

in leadership positions and

487

management positions, Who associate

growth to the number of people

488

that they manage or their scope.

489

And so, but in an environment that

is super constrained, you have to

490

change the dynamics of that role and

really like helping them understand

491

that here are some new skills that

you can pick up and this is going to

492

be helpful for you in the long run.

493

And here's how and connecting those

dots is going to become critical.

494

Eric Brooke: Thank you

for sharing that wisdom.

495

Okay, so what's next in your journey?

496

Sushma Nallapeta: I'm, uh, that's

what brought me to Trusted.

497

And, you know, I've, I've always tried

to solve problems that help people.

498

It was one, at Zeus, like, uh,

connecting different people.

499

At Apartmentless, it was

helping people find homes.

500

And now, finally, I'm

helping people find care.

501

Um, so I was super excited about

the mission and, uh, I generally

502

love marketplace businesses.

503

And I think what was unique about Trusted

is one, the segment that they were

504

really trying to help because coming out

of COVID, you realize like the biggest

505

shortage in nurses, nurses are burnt out.

506

Even normal times, and a lot of nurses

had to come out of retirement to support

507

the covert, uh, search at that time.

508

So really trying to help, um, move

the needle and help these nurses,

509

um, find, uh, care, help people,

help patients find get faster is

510

something that, uh, resonated with.

511

So that was exciting.

512

And then also, we, uh, had a unique setup.

513

We have a marketplace business

and enterprise business.

514

I had been with enterprise

almost like three companies ago

515

and, and that was in FinTech.

516

Um, so I was like very excited

about trying to marry the two,

517

like, how can I take this consumer

side of the business and connect

518

the dots with the enterprise side?

519

And how can this become a

strong mode for the company?

520

And.

521

Um, so that was what

brought me to Trusted.

522

Now I've been here for a year and,

uh, it's been an exciting journey.

523

Eric Brooke: So you're a CTO now,

what would you say is the difference

524

between that and being a head of

engineering or like a VP of engineering?

525

Sushma Nallapeta: I think, uh, I

think the biggest thing is playing

526

that strategic role and understanding

that the buck stops with you.

527

Uh, I think the.

528

When I say the buck stops with you,

you have to be willing to make all

529

types of decisions, whether it's tough

decision, whether it is like, you

530

know, budget decisions, whether it

is the strategy, like be willing to

531

fill in the gaps wherever possible.

532

The big difference between head of

engineering and CTO, again, there

533

could be differences depending

on the size of the company.

534

At least in my own experience, Zeus was a

lot smaller, the role that I was playing

535

while strategic, but a lot of it focused

on, uh, like managing, um, you know, the

536

team execution, really fixing a bunch

of stuff that was broken, uh, focusing

537

on people process and tech at large.

538

Now as a CTO, it's a lot of that plus.

539

Really understanding what is a competitive

advantage understanding, like, you know,

540

you're not just a functional leader,

but you're also a business leader.

541

So really trying to figure

out how can I help my peers.

542

Uh, in some of the problems that they are

facing, we had a huge initiative last year

543

where engineering finance partnered up to

really like, look at our, um, you know,

544

how we do payroll, how we actually, like,

measure, um, our gross margin and things

545

like that and did a lot of efficient, um,

uh, efficiency improvements on that side.

546

And then the third part of

it is also external facing.

547

Like, how can you keep

up with the industry?

548

What trends?

549

Uh, are going on and how can

that be a huge advantage?

550

Uh, and right now, I'm dealing with

a lot of build versus buy decisions,

551

especially in a macro environment

that is getting tighter and tighter.

552

You have to focus on operational

efficiency, and you have to figure out

553

a look at all your software and figure

out where your engineers time is going

554

in and see if it's worthwhile to invest

those engineers, building those systems,

555

or should you just replace and buy it?

556

And have them focus on something that is

a clear business differentiation as well.

557

So, uh, those are some key

differences in my experience.

558

Eric Brooke: Thank you, Sue.

559

Um, so when you think about success,

what does it look like for you and

560

what has helped you be successful?

561

Sushma Nallapeta: When I think

about success, I think success

562

has the definition of success has

changed depending on which company

563

and what role that I have played.

564

The success for me now is very closely

aligned with the company success.

565

So it's like, if we can really, um, you

know, come out of this macro continue

566

to really help people find care faster

and reduce that time to care component.

567

Uh, that to me is success.

568

And personally, if I can help the company

go through that journey and like be a

569

strong player, and then eventually like,

you know, um, take the company public.

570

That to me is success.

571

When I was in some of my previous

roles, like when I was a manager,

572

success to me was becoming a CTO.

573

Um, not knowing what that looked like,

or, you know, success to me was, Just

574

my own, um, like career journey success

to me was I have to go from managing

575

maybe one team to multiple teams that

to go from managing a function that

576

I never managed before and so on.

577

So, um, the definitions of success

change for people as they go through

578

different companies and roles.

579

Eric Brooke: And what has helped

you be successful in your journey?

580

Sushma Nallapeta: Um, I think one

really, uh, when I was an engineering

581

manager, what I really focused on

was understanding the business.

582

I was all, because I came from that

consulting background, I always wanted

583

to know the why behind everything.

584

That helped me form strong

partnerships with people.

585

Like I, when I was an engineering

manager, I was like great

586

friends with the security team.

587

And nobody's usually great

friends with security team.

588

Um, because I really try to

understand why, you know, they wanted

589

us to do code scans and why they

wanted us to find vulnerabilities

590

even before it got to production.

591

I got firsthand on what type of

attacks they're trying to prevent

592

and why that's important and so on.

593

I tried to go deep and understand

their pain points that helped me

594

put the right processes in place

so that, you know, it's not an

595

afterthought, but it's more proactive.

596

Our engineers are trained to

actually, like, look at some of

597

these things as they're building

software versus after the fact.

598

The same thing I spent, I used to spend

a lot of time with marketing, customer

599

success, risk, trying to understand

the different nuances of the business.

600

And I think that's, is a key

differentiation that I feel helped me

601

really succeed because I was able to

carry that trade across other companies,

602

because when you become an executive.

603

Uh, your entire skill is around

understanding the business and

604

understanding your customer base.

605

And if you can do that internally, you can

apply the same thing externally as well.

606

Eric Brooke: Thank you.

607

Invaluable lessons there.

608

So, um, what do you, what is your

interaction with the executive look like?

609

What, how does it feel to be in the exec?

610

What are the things that help

you to be a successful executive?

611

Sushma Nallapeta: You know, it's,

it's so interesting that a lot of

612

my team members sometimes ask me

what happens in those meetings?

613

Like, what do you guys talk about?

614

Um, I think, you know, half of that

time is actually spent on really

615

like, we are the first team, like,

there is a concept of the first team.

616

So who is your first team?

617

And how are you building

that relationship and trust?

618

I'm a big fan of the five dysfunctions.

619

So, we do spend a lot of time at least I,

I have, uh, in the last 3 companies that

620

have been part of the executive team on

like, just building that trust, building

621

that collaboration, understanding and

building that empathy with each other.

622

Uh, so that's a lot of that.

623

And then, uh, the 2nd aspect of it is.

624

Really figuring out and in any

given week, what are some of, um,

625

uh, the, uh, headwinds tailwinds

that are impacting the business.

626

Um, because we all need to look at our

outcomes that each of us are responsible

627

for and really try to connect the dots

across the whole business and say, Hey,

628

this is what's happening on this side.

629

And this is what's happening on this side.

630

And, and then once you kind of

start sharing and looking at.

631

The bigger picture holistically,

you start to find solutions.

632

Um, so, uh, you know, uh, my, a lot of

my interaction is relationship building,

633

really understanding, um, what some of

their pain points are and figuring out

634

how technology can solve those problems.

635

Eric Brooke: Um, so in terms of

like, beyond the exec to the board,

636

um, what would you say that you've

learned about your interactions with

637

the board for, um, an executive?

638

Sushma Nallapeta: Yeah, so I think for me,

I, again, I apply the same relationship

639

management to the board as well, but with

board, it's a, it's slightly different.

640

I think you have different

types of members of the board.

641

There are investors, and then

sometimes there are independent board

642

members when you're interacting with

investors, a lot of times, it's 1.

643

they want to understand financials.

644

They want to understand

the work that you're doing.

645

How does it impact either

top line or bottom line?

646

And sometimes I've also had interactions

with investors where they might have.

647

Actually, come across some company in

their portfolio, and the thing that

648

could help solve the problem that we

have, and they sometimes connect the dot.

649

They want me to have a discussion

with that a company and give

650

them an understanding of

whether it can help us or not.

651

So, that's part of half of the equation.

652

The other half, especially

with independent board members,

653

they have a lot of insight.

654

The reason we companies bring on

independent board members is for their

655

experience of running such a company in

the past or experience that can closely

656

relate to the industry that we are in.

657

And a lot of the interaction there

is just getting advice and figuring

658

out what worked for them and what

did not and really listening and

659

understanding and figuring out what

can you actually take and apply.

660

At your company, versus what

might be something like a lesson

661

that you have learned that you

can share with them as well.

662

Um, so a lot of my interaction

with the board is around giving and

663

receiving, uh, information and advice.

664

Eric Brooke: Awesome.

665

Um, so if we take a look, what are

you seeing, Sue, across the wider

666

tech market, um, today, January,

667

Sushma Nallapeta: What, I think, one,

obviously, everybody's talking about AI,

668

um, so that is definitely, uh, intriguing

for me, um, because, you know, I started

669

my AI journey, like, 15, 20 years ago, and

at that time, it was super rudimentary.

670

You would get so excited by just.

671

You know, uh, analyzing, uh,

text a lots and lots of text

672

and making sense of that text.

673

And now, uh, chat GPT makes what we

were doing for months, uh, very easy and

674

get it in a fraction of milliseconds.

675

So I think that evolution is definitely

something that I'm keeping an eye on.

676

But most importantly, I think where it

can really help is to streamline your

677

internal Operational efficiency, I think,

in this climate, all companies are looking

678

to cut cost, focus on profitability, uh,

not growth at all costs, like, really

679

making sure that you have product market

fit, you continue to have that mode.

680

And if you lose it, try to find.

681

Uh, different competitive advantage and

then really streamline your operations

682

so that you can be profitable and I

can definitely I think a lot of times

683

people think of as like the school is

the application that interacts with

684

customers and can do a lot of good stuff.

685

Yes, it can do all of

that, but it can also help.

686

Operationalize a lot of your

internal inefficiencies.

687

So we've been experimenting with that.

688

How can we, uh, you know, uh, we

have a lot of, uh, manual mechanical

689

Turk in between automation.

690

So, how, how can we actually eliminate

some of that and build intelligence

691

so that our jobs can be curated?

692

Much faster, like how our internal

operations team has tools at

693

their disposal that they can use

and get inside so that they can

694

interact with customers better.

695

That's definitely something that

I'm seeing in the wider market.

696

Um, and that is revolutionary and

really will probably help the decision

697

making process, uh, go much smoother.

698

Eric Brooke: That's awesome.

699

Thank you for your perspective.

700

Um, is there a problem that you're

digging into or trying to understand at

701

the moment that you're willing to share?

702

Sushma Nallapeta: Yeah, I think,

um, as companies evolve, your data

703

ecosystem becomes extremely complicated.

704

And, and, you know, especially with

startups, as they have gone through

705

multiple stages of evolution, it becomes

so key anything that you build today

706

might not be relevant 2 years from now.

707

And so, especially in a journey of

several years, and, like, covered, uh,

708

bombs and things like that, what ends up

happening is 1 people have come and gone.

709

The context has been lost.

710

People have built your data model

and your data, your events, all

711

of that in a certain, with a

certain understanding of where the

712

business was at that point in time.

713

But the business has evolved since then.

714

So now it's like you end up not

really getting the right insights

715

for your business to be able

to make effective decisions.

716

So that, that has become a big problem.

717

And I've seen this pattern emerge

across other companies as well.

718

Thank you.

719

Go from having.

720

Really good data to like a face

where like used to can make sense

721

of anything in the business.

722

And then you invest a lot and

really cleaning up your data.

723

So we're going through an

exact same problem right now.

724

And we've been focusing on that.

725

How can we make sure that this data

governance, this data sanitization,

726

that we can look at the data and

insights and make something out

727

of it and make the right decisions

for our business and our customer.

728

And that's been super exciting

for me to just plain old dig into

729

the database and run some queries

and understand what's going on.

730

Eric Brooke: Yeah.

731

I love business analytics.

732

It's a fun space and the smarter you

can make it, the better for everyone.

733

Um, um, okay.

734

So when you think about your journey,

What has helped you grow or helps you

735

grow and what helps you scale yourself so

that you're able for all the challenges?

736

What are the things that

you use to grow and scale?

737

Sushma Nallapeta: I think one, um, I am

a big believer of network and community.

738

So I have spent a lot of time,

especially in the last nine to 10

739

years, really building a network

focusing on, uh, you know, creating

740

this group of advisors around you

so that you can go to them for help.

741

Um, so that has helped That is

something that I'm really begun.

742

I also mentor on several

platforms as well.

743

And that also helps me learn and

then continue to build that network.

744

Both ways.

745

I think people other CTOs

that I could rely on the CSOs.

746

But also, like, directors and

engineering managers and engineers,

747

um, that I could, uh, hire at a

potentially and any given point in time.

748

So that's something that

has really helped me.

749

And I do continue to invest a lot in that.

750

Um, and that's that's 1 and then

2, because of this network, uh,

751

you, if you invest in really

learning and understanding,

752

you actually can understand.

753

Where the industry is going, what are

some of the problems that people are

754

facing and then really draw parallels

to your business and get this, uh,

755

understand and learn the same lessons.

756

Um, because a lot of times we make

the same mistakes over and over and so

757

it's better to avoid those mistakes.

758

I've seen this as an example when I was,

uh, at Blackhawk, um, you know, FinTech

759

company, we would have to connect with a

lot of different banks and legacy systems.

760

And every legacy system works differently.

761

Some are file based and even

file formats are different.

762

Some are XML and nobody

had heard of JSON then.

763

Um, and you know, people

have like CSVs and stuff.

764

And then there are companies that

have APIs, but they might not be rest.

765

And, you know, they're all these,

uh, old school, uh, type APIs.

766

So when you're actually building

a system, You have to cater to

767

because we are an enterprise company

to cater to every nuance of all

768

of these different businesses.

769

And we went through that journey

of building customization for

770

everybody and then realizing, like,

this is impossible to keep up.

771

So, how about then standardizing

and getting to a point where

772

we can build a common layer,

but still have customizations.

773

And eventually we start to get big

where then we start to have our own

774

APIs that people can integrate with

versus us integrating with everybody.

775

And then I had to repeat the same

thing in my previous company, and

776

then we have and we're going through

the exact same thing again now.

777

And but when you're part of this

community, and you start to share

778

some of the same pain points that

you go through, that you immediately

779

can avoid some of these pitfalls and

problems and just learn from somebody

780

else's mistakes and experience.

781

Eric Brooke: Yeah.

782

Most excellent advice.

783

You reminded me of soap

there for a second.

784

I was thinking, I don't want to

have to go back to that, but yes.

785

Um, great points.

786

Thank you.

787

Uh, I guess my final question

is what do you do for fun, Sue?

788

Sushma Nallapeta: I play tennis.

789

I have a nine year old, so a lot

of my time is not my time at all.

790

Revolving around her.

791

Um, and you know, sometimes we

just go out, um, and go to a movie.

792

We have a big movie.

793

And during between, uh, every year

between Thanksgiving and Christmas break.

794

Uh, we have to rewatch

the Harry Potter series.

795

Like we read all the books and

then we rewatch the entire series.

796

And that's something

that we just enjoy doing.

797

And we forget all about it for

the one, for the rest of the year.

798

Eric Brooke: So thank you very

much for sharing your experiences,

799

your wisdom, and your insights.

800

It's greatly appreciated.

801

Sushma Nallapeta: Thank you so much, Eric.

802

It was great to have a

conversation with you.

803

Eric Brooke: You too.

804

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