Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

The B5 crew reels after Earthgov declares martial law and attempts to install Nightwatch as the security force on the station. Meanwhile, Londo gets a tarot reading and G'Kar explores a new calling in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 9: Point of No Return.

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

It's a Babylon five watch cast by a couple of former strangers.

Now friends who are continuing to get to know each other.

Over one of their favorite shows from their childhood Babylon five.

I'm Laura.

And I'm fair.

And today I get to ask Joe fare.

What do you want?

So I feel like we've both done this one now, right before vacations,

where we talk about our pending vacation.

So I, but it's a different vacation.

And I am very excited

I want to know your itineraries.

That's what I was hoping you were going to get into.

Oh, I, I actually, so when I do a vacation, I'm like

kind of like fast and blue swell, like leaving lots of free time.

I like, like, oh, I'll figure out what I'll do in this city.

When I get there, I'll find something fun.

I'll Yelp.

I'll Google.

I'll.

Look on Facebook events, I'll find something right.

And I think part of that is just from all of my years of work travel and

just like kind of ad hoc, throwing.

Things together when I had the energy to throw them together.

Uh, my sister is not that

Oh boy.

is a family trip.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's, it's yourself, your sister and your mom, right?

Yes.

And then my sister's boyfriend.

Is meeting us over there.

Into the trip and he'll be with us through Christmas.

Which is exciting.

I.

I mean, I've known my sister's boyfriend longer than she has.

He's one of my old roommates in college.

Nice.

I've considered him family for a decade on, at this point.

So not really like oh, it'll like listener.

If you're thinking about yourself in this situation, understand

that it's a bit different.

And if you were not pleased, when I mentioned.

The uh, significant others writing us.

So.

We are.

Flying out to London.

. In three days

so excited.

When this airs, I will have been home for two weeks.

Because we've been working quite a bit ahead.

I think, yeah, because like two weeks ago on air, I mentioned, oh, when

you're listening to this, I'll be flying

Right.

This is from that trip and I'm going for two weeks.

So it's not even like it's a little bit.

So.

Yes, the itinerary.

I actually have it

Yeah, London first, obviously.

Yeah, we're getting in London for a day.

We'll just to the time zone.

We'll hang out a little bit.

We're staying at the same hotel in London the first day that we

will be for the back half of the

Okay.

So we're planning on leaving a lot of our luggage

Hey.

Yeah.

That's cool.

And then we hop on a train to Salisbury.

And from Solsbury we get on a bus and we're going to go see Stonehenge.

that'll be fun.

And do the Salzburg, cathedral and other Solsbury things.

I presume have a steak.

And then after all of that spend the night

There in Bath.

Uh, We've got an Airbnb.

That's like.

Meandering distance from the Roman baths.

Oh, that's cool.

that.

Get up.

Get on a train to Cardiff, go to Carta for a day.

Go see Torchwood find Jack Harkness yell, Gwen Cooper, a couple of times.

As windows.

As one does when one is in Cardiff.

I think I found a scissor sisters cover band that's plaguing Cardiff that night.

So I'll probably go see them.

But I have not been able to.

I found it once and I've been able to find it since I, they

might've canceled the event.

Get on a train in Cardiff the next morning, go up to Liverpool.

Go to the cavern club, which is where the Beatles kind of got their start.

Cool.

And there is a uh, Paul McCartney tribute act who works with one of the

like sound engineers from the Beatles.

Like who's like, this is the guy.

He's done tours and stuff.

Like he is.

I've listened to me.

Sounds just like Paul.

Who's playing at the cavern club that night.

That'll be fun.

Yeah.

so we're going to go do that.

Get on a train to Edinburgh.

And then spend four days there.

We have, we're going to a cocktail geeks there in back again.

Which is a Lord of the rings themed cocktail

Oh man.

changed their theme.

Every couple of weeks.

Uh, We have a day tour of the Highlands distilleries the next day.

We have a.

Cheesecake place we're going to in a tea room all this stuff.

And then.

After that on the 23rd, get on a bullet train, go down to London.

See Westminster Abbey.

The 24th, we're going to go to like Piccadilly circus and all that stuff.

And Dougal at Christmas shopping.

And then Christmas day, we've got reservations at a fancy restaurant.

Uh, The 26th, we're going to go to Oxford.

And check out the university and do stuff there.

The 27th, we still have open.

We don't know what we're going to do yet.

And then the 28th.

We get on a plane at nine 40 in the morning and land at 2:00 PM.

That's crazy, but time, time jump is wild.

Yes.

we wish you an easier time.

Reacclimating on your way back.

I'm very excited to drink a bunch of scotch.

I don't drink scotch.

Normally I'm not a scotch person, but.

I'm not going to Scotland without drinking

sure.

I know exactly how much I can bring home too.

So.

There's that.

You've got the right to

case.

Yeah, I've got the right suitcase for it.

And I think I might.

I spent most of my day looking at kilts.

I think I might buy a kilt while I'm

I mean, you absolutely should.

Yes.

Yeah.

I do have a Scottish family.

On my mother's side.

And kind of trace it back there.

up my tart and everything and the clan and.

All that stuff.

So.

Yeah, that'll be fun.

Well, it sounds like you have it all planned out or your

sister helped plan it all out.

I back seated and to let her do everything until she was exhausted.

And then it's, oh, we don't have these train tickets for these days.

Got it all

booked.

In about an hour and a

That's teamwork right there.

so.

Yeah, it's I wasn't going to step on toes.

Uh, And that was definitely, I was trying to avoid that.

I know how that goes.

Uh, so once it, once I got the, all clear that, my help

was appreciated and required.

And then I, then I jumped in, but for the most part, I just got to let it

Yeah.

Yeah, well, you know, if it's important to someone else, it's the

nice thing to do to let them drive.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm just looking forward to.

Doing a bunch of stuff.

It's going to be a good

Yeah.

It will.

We can't wait to hear all about it.

well, my trip might be very thoroughly planned.

What's not planned is the response to the events of this week's episode.

W we've got season three, episode nine, the point of no return.

And Hey, it's our season title episode.

We get

Oh, yeah.

I hadn't thought about the season three title.

So.

That's that's where we're at.

Point of no return.

The point of no return.

actually, I'm adding a thought.

It's just the point of no

No.

But whatever.

I'm taking the the, from there all the honor lies.

And changing it into being the point of no return.

We'll just take the extra here and move it here.

Exactly.

No one will notice and my OCD will be happier.

So we opened this episode with Londo.

I think once again, reviewing a report about minbar.

We've had this come up

is the same bit.

Three episodes ago.

I had to go back through my notes and see what I had written down to be

like, this is different enough, right?

And the answer is yes, it is.

It is different enough.

He makes kind of the same jokes, but in different places and

slightly different wording.

So just like dealing with any father

Yeah.

True facts.

Yeah.

Same song, different verse.

You know, we're trying to.

Basically neg on the men Bari here.

And, you know, just paint them as inferior to the Centauri when us, as

viewers of the show can obviously tell which race seems to be a little bit

ahead of the other at this moment.

For sure.

I do think this doesn't hold up as.

in the streaming era compared to the weekly TV

Yeah.

I think if you had three or four, like it, well, we did have three

or four weeks between episodes because we're watching them weekly as we

Yeah.

So, yeah, we would've cut one week out of that weekly episode rotation,

just based off the recording cadence.

But.

I think watching them back to back streaming this probably

confused a lot of people.

'cause they probably like didn't I just see this

scene because I had to stop pause, go back, check my notes, find out

what episode and go back and watch that scene in the other episode.

So I can

only imagine.

Yeah.

I, I didn't have to go back and watch it, but I definitely felt it.

I was like, nah, we just did this

. Xhafer: We get one new line in

nothing to do with politics.

That's fun.

Mm-hmm.

. And prescient.

Veer wants to take a nap.

When Linda gets a call saying lady Morella has agreed to stop

in at Babylon five, when she's on her tour, she's going to refresh.

Londo opens his door and there's just a cacophony of chaos outside.

He's just like, what is going on?

It's the point where he

grabs a random imbar passerby.

it's just like what is going on?

And he's all like the earthers declared martial law.

Yeah, it it's sure.

Sure set off some feelings on this station.

Amongst the populace.

Meanwhile, Sheridan and Ivana are talking about that.

They are.

In discussion with earth force.

They're there talking to this general who says, yes, Clark has signed an

executive order, dissolving the Senate.

And boy um, that feels a little familiar too.

Did you follow the news this week?

I did hear about that actually.

Yeah, this just happened this last week in.

Yeah.

As I was reading news about that, I was like Uh, I feel like

I just watched this on a show.

You did.

Yeah.

It seems like the real life situation is turning out a little

better and that the Congress or.

I don't think they called themselves Senate.

I think it was Congress.

Didn't allow themselves to be dissolved.

Yeah, they just impeached the president instead in the military, back

to Congress instead of the president.

So Congress one.

So you got not, not happening on Babylon five, unfortunately.

Yeah.

So we know that Clark was going to meet the Senate and offer them a

explanation as to why he declared martial law behind closed doors.

He's like if the closed session, the Senate.

And so his explanation was I'm dissolving the Senate.

It's why martial law was declared.

And it does appear he needs a quake literal dissolving of the Senate.

As we see soldiers stormed the Senate building.

Yeah.

But yeah, so they're talking to a general and what's up with this guy.

He's got four monitors behind

him with his zoom call on it.

Can you imagine being on a call and having someone's background, be you on the call.

Oh, man, that'd be horrible.

I mean, I'm sure someone's done it right now that we live in the zoom era.

I was about to set up OBS and do it shit.

Yeah.

I saw a very clever one the other day, that was a, they made their zoom

background, a video of themselves getting themselves a cup of tea.

So.

The video that you see.

This person sitting there getting themselves a cup of tea.

It was very good.

That was good.

But yeah, we find out general Haig is missing.

He uh, he and the

We'll find out what's going on there soon.

Yep.

The Alexander is on the run along with a couple other ships.

And we get a God help us.

You're all alone out there.

To theme.

Yeah.

When we come back, we're in CNC, we get about, about

maintaining the status quo.

And Corwin is just like, how did we get to this point?

What did we do wrong and shared and just thought like, Fuck fine.

I know.

That's that's a real mood though.

I felt that man.

I dunno, we elected one idiot 40 years ago and it somehow spiraled

into electing an idiot this time.

And I don't even know.

Yeah, this is the cycle.

If you made a day, I guess.

We get a bit about general.

Heck, here he is organizing a counter strike.

Uh, There's a

Night watch.

meeting soon.

And Jakarta Singh and got worse.

I was actually disappointed that they leaned into the bit

that they were trying to do.

I think it would have been funnier if his singing was really good.

Yeah.

They, they may get a little more like a cling on opera E instead of What

the singing of the he did for us.

And what was that season one where he's singing about all

the little fishes in the sea.

Yeah, so he definitely did degrade a little bit.

Yeah, he gets set free three weeks early because of everything going.

I wonder, I wonder if that will come back.

That's three weeks of missing punishment.

Yeah.

Over at space TSA, Lando and veer are waiting.

As, uh, we learned that lady more is a prophete, uh, a Sr.

Right before she arrives and y'all, it's Major Barrett.

Such a good get, I love it.

I was sitting there poking my husband the entire time.

She's like walking onto the, into the scene.

I'm like, look like.

Yeah, I had to pause because Beth west Russell, and then I was

just like, You recognize that voice?

She's all like, yeah.

And like just waiting and watching it like wash over her face and she's

like, holy shit, it's Rachel Barrett.

I'm like, yes.

There's a fun story about how this happened.

Hmm, do tell.

So Major Barrett on the convention scene got asked a question about like,

Hey, how do you feel about, you know, all this Babylon five stuff ripping

off star Trek, and she's all like, have you watched the show because

Babylon five is actually a good show.

And if you like intelligent science fiction, you should

probably watch Babylon five.

Uh, If you haven't given it a chance because it's actually a good show,

so don't buy into any of that.

If you like scifi, if you like star Trek, you'll probably like Babylon five.

Said that out of convention.

Or it gets back to JMS,

JMS reaches out through proper channels.

Hey, would you be interested in doing a guest spot?

I'd be

delighted.

So he wrote the role of lady Marella for major Barrett.

Oh, that's

Just like wrote her into an episode.

We're doing

She's such a class act.

That was the classiest response.

You could have to that question in that venue, like.

sure.

And even then some of the dialogue in here is admittedly about gene Roddenberry.

Yeah.

Like there's a bit with Lando talking about how great her husband was and

her talking about how people are never appreciated in their time.

Mm-hmm.

, and only in their, you know, when they're young and they're

great, they're like, oh, it's ego.

Mm-hmm.

. And then when you're old and you're great, it's, you know, forgotten.

Or you know, no one gives a shit anymore because you're old.

Yeah.

And only in death is greatness really imparted to someone who is.

100% just talking about gene Roddenberry confirmed by JMS.

that's very sweet.

That is very sweet.

I like that context on that.

Hm.

Yeah, it opens it up.

It changes the dialogue a little bit.

When you view through that real-world

I do think it's very fun and her dialogue too, that she refers to herself

in the we, and they explained that as.

Her husband's spirit is said to be with her now, since, since he is passed on.

And so she gets to use, you know, the Royal we for everything,

I think it is delightful.

It adds a lot to the.

The mystique of this Centauri woman.

Yeah.

It's great.

We get two simultaneous scenes right after this, we get the Nightwatch

meeting and Sheridan's office.

We learned that all off world security is going to be handled by Nightwatch only.

Uh, the general is very like specific and kind of like steri with his words.

And we find out why later.

In the episode, but I'm all like, he's just telling him what to do.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know if I was just because I've seen this and it was

just living in the back of my mind.

This is, this will be a fun one to go back and listen to some of those

Babylon five first-timer podcasts for, I

Oh, sure.

Because I knew what was going to happen and I can't separate

knowing what was gonna happen from.

Watching it at this point.

So, I don't know if it just stood out to me as obvious because I was waiting for

it, even if I didn't remember it directly.

Or if it's just super blatant.

Yeah, no, I remember this as being something that went

over my head when I was a kid.

And then.

When he turns it at the end of the episode, being like,

Oh, he's so smart.

. but yeah.

I doubt I got it as a kid.

I don't recall, but on my watch through that I started in 2020.

Definitely was just like, I was obvious.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wonder for

Because they've done this before.

They've done this thing where the general gets orders and they use the

exact language or the Senator gives orders and it's all like, they use the

exact language to turn it against them.

And like for them to like zoom in or like, just focus on like, he'd say

something and he'd just like sit there and be like, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

It's just like, it felt like a bit much.

We get a Nightwatch runs Babylon five.

Now from officer Alex Jones to commercial.

Garibaldi is going to love that.

Yup.

So I wanted to talk a bit about Nightwatch and this seems like a good time.

Yeah.

Thick as

thieves this last

episode.

So Nightwatch comes from a quote from a famous.

We'll go through term politician.

Okay.

I'm going to read you the quote.

And I want you to guess if you can tell me who said this quote.

Okay.

I don't believe a conservative Nightwatch would be tolerated either.

This is the Genesis of the term.

Nightwatch.

From JMS Bringing up this quote.

Who do you think said this?

Is it an American.

I guess you

don't

don't want to

give hints.

because it could give it away.

But think, think about.

Thinking about what Nightwatch is and what Nightwatch does, and someone in history.

Who might be aligned with that kind of organization?

I mean.

The.

Obvious thought is Hitler.

Is

it that.

But it is an American.

Okay.

Yep.

It is Joseph

That was my next guest.

Yup.

Cause that was kind of his whole thing too.

Watching people.

Yeah, this was directly in response to being all like, well, Hey,

you're just like creating a conservative version of the Gestapo to root out

liberals and calling them communists.

And he's all like, no, no one would tolerate a conservative Nightwatch.

Like co coining the term almost.

And so that's where this comes from.

And this is directly in response to his feelings about a lot of

people who would watch the news in the early and mid nineties.

And be all like this kind of thing can happen in other countries,

but it can't happen here.

Uh, Huh.

Because he thought it was absurd to think that given it has happened here.

Right.

than once.

And so a lot of how the Nightwatch storyline is organized is to kind

of lead you into a, this is how.

A democracy can become a police state from the view of people in that democracy.

Yeah, I remember.

Too, you know, in the . Early two thousands, when you and I were

still, you know, children, right.

Teenagers.

The, when we formulated the department of Homeland security.

And hearing, you know, in my circles and from the adults in my life, like how.

Uh, Sort of horrifying that was in that, you know,

The, the words Homeland specifically.

Kind of hearkening to some right-wing.

Connotations.

And especially from other countries, like.

You know, Germany have a certain time and such, so, but it was well

received in other parts of the country.

So.

Yeah.

Uh, For sure.

I mean, I admittedly have a very unique experience in my Where I was living

in what I was not really doing, but definitely where I was living in.

I was a student at and during nine 11.

And I mean, I've talked about my father before.

On pod.

He's a very conservative dude.

That's not news for listeners.

Him being a Muslim probably is news for most listeners.

An odd combination sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah, especially given some stuff he said, I think I've

actually, I might've mentioned on,

I know we have talked about it.

I'm not sure if it made it to pod.

Yeah.

Some mental Dissonance he's had had but having that the

high school that I went to was not a white majority high school.

I went to a white plurality high school that had a lot of People

of middle Eastern, ethnic descent.

Most of them were actually Christians.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's it was a group that was displaced during the first.

Gulf war.

Bye.

Said I'm saying, and then ended up being brought over.

In mass has cultural refugees and settled into the trade area, right by

sounds eerily familiar?

Yes.

Okay.

So

That.

being a whole thing too, you know, like, Having that being my peers in high school.

And then having something like nine 11 happened in assignment that Aladdin and

the wars, and just like, it's a very.

Interesting experience.

Yeah.

Reflective I'm sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Especially as I've gotten older and learned to both process things

and be a bit more introspective.

Yeah.

So we come back from commercial to find your car going to his quarters.

Yeah.

And if.

Uh, familiar Nard and standing around.

Yep.

It's Talan.

He's back.

Whose name in the subtitles with Smith's spelled as TALEN.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thought that was fun.

You can't win them all in the subtitles.

They do such a good job.

Most of the time, I'm not even going to be upset about this

Nah, no, it's a weird name.

And he's been

waiting.

Yeah.

This whole time.

Yup.

He takes a break every five days to sleep, but otherwise

decides that he's been standing in front of Dzhokhar's room for weeks.

Not weird for anybody else.

Yeah, he just didn't want to miss him.

Yeah, but Chicago is really glad he's here because

you know, he's, he's had his.

days in jail and has plans for the NARKN and he can start with this

contingent that's on Babylon five.

Yep.

We cut over to security and we see the ceremonial.

I was just following orders, handing out of the armbands.

So uncomfortable.

it should be.

And Garibaldi knows this is going on.

He's up in Sheridan's office and he's livid.

Garibaldi can't stand fascism when he's not being the

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, we see You know, notably, we see at least one person except the armband.

We see another person choose to give up his badge and his gun.

Before we're going to see Garibaldi lose his mind.

Yeah.

We got a little bit in Linda's quarters where he comes clean to lady Marella.

Asking the lady for a reading.

She gives them the hard truth.

There's always a choice.

We only say that there's not a choice to comfort ourselves

with the decisions we've already

Wait a freak and call it out lady.

Morella like.

Yeah.

For sure.

And this is something Londo has said to himself, a ton.

Like, this is something that he is, he has been all like, well,

there's, there's no choice.

This is the only path forward.

And he said it to

veer.

we have to do now.

You said it to veer.

He said it to REFA.

He said it to.

Everyone.

He says it to himself all the time.

I'm curious if he continues to after this point.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't remember.

We've got to watch for that because she called it out.

Spade is a spade Alondo Mallari.

You've made these choices.

You just want to feel better about them.

So you tell yourself you have nothing.

Yeah, what a smart lady.

Right, Zach intercepts Garibaldi on his way to punch some fascists.

Which we are capable of appreciating, but still recognizing he's the fucking worst.

And Zack gets told it's time to get his shit together.

Yeah.

We get a bit, or he's all like, Hey, I gave you a chance when no one else

would, Hey, I introduced you to your wife.

And I really wanted to pause at

that moment because I really, really, really want the Jerry Doyle matchmaker

series on great American network.

I don't want to watch it ever.

I just want the pleasure of knowing it existed.

Yeah.

Unfortunately for a number of reasons, it can't and won't, but can

you imagine like Garibaldi matchmaker.

I, this was one of those moments in the, in Babylon five, writing that I was

like, this would be a little bit stronger.

If you had peppered something in.

Earlier, somewhere else in the show.

With, with these moments, like I can, I can buy off on the, I gave you a

chance when no one else would that one.

I'm like, okay.

You know, we've seen that in his character, the matchmaker part.

I haven't seen anything like that.

That's a little harder.

That's a bit of a stretch.

So he gives a big speech is all like, Hey.

We're the team.

We're us.

What's going on?

Knock it the fuck off.

But a bunch of fascists end up being a bunch of fascists.

Surprise, surprise.

figure.

Right.

Who would have thought.

Yeah.

Back from commercial Jakarta tells Talan.

About his experience in dust to dust a couple episodes ago.

He hands him, his book.

He's like this will help, but the words are difficult.

I could spend the rest of my life trying to describe a moment.

Yeah, he's definitely, he was touched by a VAR lawn and

he's turned into something else.

So.

That's the CBS series we should've had.

So that was another time period, appropriate reference.

I'm very proud of myself.

He says they have in order for their species to survive,

they're going to have to give up.

Their species.

But he doesn't mean it and kind of all like we're so based in anger.

So based in revenge, these are the things we'll have to give up.

We have to harmonize with the universe.

And starts with the humans.

Yeah.

I think that's the biggest thing about Jakarta.

Since dust to dust, right.

That he.

Is no longer motivated by revenge.

Like he's still kind of wants the same things, but he is not out

to get this entire tree anymore.

He is out to do the right thing for.

For the NARKN and also the universe.

And you know, what.

He wants it for the universe so much that.

If he winds up having to sacrifice all of the non.

So be it, you know So

Because the universe is more important.

Yeah.

He believes in

something

the very least he gets what Kosh was, brainwashing him to get.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, he believed in something bigger than himself, always

through this series, I think because he believed in the non people, right.

Now he believes in something even bigger than the non people, which is interesting.

But also manipulated by the Orlon.

So kind of weird.

Yeah.

After this, the martial law order finally makes it to be five.

On the tour of the station, ISN reports, that general Haig is fighting

against the president's police state.

And then the crowd cheers.

When he escapes.

Riot breaks out after some Nightwatch aggression.

Like, they're just like, Hey.

You're going to riot and starts hitting people.

And it's just like, oh, oh, I see what's happening here.

Yeah.

Hm.

This doesn't look familiar at all.

Yeah, veer totally takes a bottle to the back of a head to protect lady.

Morella.

While the martial law order gets read.

And then Franklin comes in.

We haven't seen much of him in.

This three-part or to be perfectly honest.

He comes into Sheraton's office.

And they talk about stuff and shared and figures out the message from earlier.

At the same time, Dzhokhar pops into CNC with an idea.

And then Zach gets jumped outside of his quarters.

Dzhokhar's idea was to give Zach the boots medium style.

.

When she has a vision, she sees old man emperor, Londo, coughing on the throne.

We've seen this.

And then Zach tells officer Alex Jones, the plan.

A bunch of NARKN are going to be coming in to take over the security duties.

He's all like, Hey, the arriving on this ship at this time.

The Nightwatch is like, ah, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna

counter this and keep the station.

You did the right things.

ACC.

And he's just all like, yup.

Let's send all our

people.

All at once to this

docking bay.

one.

Yes,

one with the doors that can close on both sides.

Yes.

Yeah, do that.

Stop those Nard.

Excellent plan.

Exactly.

We get a scene with your car, asking the non for help.

We get shared in prepping and loading his sidearm.

Yeah.

some dramatic hallway walking.

And officer Alex Jones gathering up his group all in one place.

Zac gives the signal.

He rips off his armband when he dives out of there.

Love the dramatic

All of Nightwatch.

Yeah.

In the bay.

Sheridan tells them how it's going to be in a way that makes red form and proud.

All the nineties jokes today.

Yeah.

Where are we?

What time is it?

What year is it?

Yeah, I will.

I love when we're like, just as we're aiming our guns at the locks shared and

reminds them what the station is made of.

And maybe don't do that because you'll all die.

Right.

Yeah, so this is how it is.

They know that they're just buying time.

But Sheridan's like, Hey, if we've got enough time to buy general Haig a

couple of days to take Clark out, then.

It's worth it, you know?

And then we can end this thing quickly.

Oh, I've got some bad news.

Yeah.

But that's for next step.

We're still optimistic at this point that we can we're far enough away.

Right?

We can stay out of it.

Just long enough for them to sort their own shit out.

Like.

I think every, you know, Sort of colony has felt this at some point

when a major power gets into you know, They're major power gets into a war.

Like maybe if we just stay back.

They'll sort

yeah, we can send troops in six months.

NA.

So that's where we're still at in this episode of Babylon five.

Playing for time.

So after this Londo gets his taro card reading.

And.

And we get three things

and I

just want to read them.

And I want to.

I want to talk about them.

A lot.

But I want to, I want to go into super spoiler town.

Um, So rather than asking someone to skip an indeterminate amount

of time, because they don't know how long this one's going to take.

I think what we should do is we should, after our end credits play.

Jump into spoiler town and talk about these threes with super spoilers.

Okay.

Listen, I hope this is a good compromise for you and your

inner completionist is an upset..

Sure.

Yeah.

So

after in credits, yeah.

After end credits, we're going to have a bit more

talking about these three things.

The first is save the eye that cannot see.

The second is, do not kill who is already dead.

And the third is surrender yourself to your greatest fear,

knowing it will destroy you.

Yeah, those are his three chances at

redemption.

Linda was like, I don't get this cryptic bullshit.

He's told he will be emperor.

And so we'll veer.

But only one after the other dies.

And this bit in particular seems to set them both off, not veer being

emperor, which really seems unlikely.

Right.

Right.

It's very interesting because also, you know, Veer is we're we're led to

believe significantly younger than Londo.

So it's like,

Yes.

Of course, he's going to outlive you.

Right.

Like he should, it would be normal for veered, outlive you by decades.

Londo.

You're much older than him.

Yeah, so it doesn't seem that weird.

They're focusing on the wrong thing.

They're focusing on the, the weirdness of one of us to die first, rather than.

Y veer.

Right, exactly.

This, this upset me a little, cause it seems very logical to me that

veer is going to outlive lado.

it.

Yeah.

Jakarta tells Sheridan.

He wants it in the new Alliance in exchange for all of his help.

With security, Sheridan says he'll discuss with the others.

And then we get a bit with VIR and Londo on the sofa sitting

as far apart as possible.

Yeah, some

they do a little bit of comedy here.

In the season guide uh, Peter Jurassic.

Says this scene made me want to do a two hour comedy with Stephen first.

Like find a movie for us, please.

Yeah, I would love that I would have loved to have gotten

that before Steven first passed

Yeah.

For sure.

Back in Sheridan's office.

Higgs rebellion looks grim.

But Dylan has made it back on whatever was keeping her away.

We get quiet, contemplation out the window to credits.

Yeah.

That's the episode.

This is Kind of the second of three

Big long acts.

if you think about it.

I know every episode has its own acts within it, but.

This is a long, longer arc.

This is a trilogy.

This is a three-part episode that for distributions reasons was not

titled part one part two part three.

Yeah.

Yeah.

JMS even says that like they pick up literally the next scene.

You can put them together and watch them as one cohesive piece.

They are designed for that.

Yeah, it's, it's beautiful.

And of course, in that, the end of the second act, you're not going

to have any satisfying resolution.

So before we decide.

How we rate this episode, I'm going to ask you a question.

Go for it.

The turn that Zack takes.

How did you find it?

Did you find it?

Satisfying believable.

What's your, what's your thoughts?

He.

I mean, his motives for joining Nightwatch were always, oh, well I get

an extra $5 an hour or whatever you.

Like it was never about Nightwatch and their ideals.

I think the thing that is the least believable about Zach's arc.

Is that he's effectively second in command of Nightwatch on the station.

Yeah.

The reluctant

guy.

Yeah, he's the reluctant guy.

He's the guy who questioned shit all the time.

Like when there's the ministry of peace people, he's just

like, why are we doing this?

When he finds out any of the big news before it happens,

he's all like that's absurd.

Like he is not the dude who's out there raising your banner,

committed to the cause.

Why is he number two?

Did he just, is it just seniority?

Did he just sign up early enough?

That seems very poorly organized to me.

And so.

That's my

biggest issue with the whole thing,

It seems like

maybe it's his

maybe.

Yeah, he is.

I think he's

the highest ranked person.

Yeah.

He definitely outranks

Yeah.

Yeah, but it's not

very clear.

Where, where that came from considering he is so reluctant.

But I remember feeling.

Watching him reporting to officer Alex Jones.

The whole.

Plot, you know, The Narins are coming.

And really feeling like.

Oh, man.

He really has.

He really had he sold it to me.

Like he really has decided to go ahead inside with Nightwatch he's

he's too freaked out because they did S they did sell to his doubt

with Garibaldi, you know, Why won't you tell me what code seminar is?

And, he knows they're up to something.

We see it in his face all the time.

Yeah, he knows something's going on and he knows he's not trusted.

And that hurts him.

And that's definitely something that pushes him towards this.

But the second he is trusted.

And the second he's brought into the circle.

It's done for him, you know, he, he's not, he's not interested.

Because that's all we really wanted to do is he didn't.

And it wasn't about being in the room where it happens.

It was about being with your friends and with the people that

you trust, you know, your comrades.

Especially

he felt like he, someone who deserved trust and he was not someone who

was offered trust and that wounded him.

Yeah.

So I obviously we're watching it again a second time.

Right?

So.

The.

That moment where you're supposed to feel like, oh God, no, he's really turning.

On Garibaldi didn't have the same hit the second time, but I remember.

The first time feeling like, oh man, no, really.

He's going to make it worse, you know?

Yeah.

So I think a lot hinges on Zach and these three episodes.

And especially this episode, do you believe.

He could turn on them.

Yeah.

For dramatic tension.

well, how do you feel about it GFS?

Affair.

Ah, this is it.

Five out of five.

Let's go.

Yeah.

We're going to give this one, five out of five fascist punched in the face.

In addition to Babylon five out of five.

Um, yeah, this is it.

This is a great episode.

Here for it.

I will say, this is the best of the three, in my opinion, not to spoil my

rating on last one and or next one.

Uh, but I think the pacing in this episode is just fucking perfect.

It is very good.

Yeah.

I love

Majorelle Barrett.

oh, she's, she's a fucking gem in this episode, her character is.

Perfect.

She's great.

She does a great job acting.

Her interactions with Londo and veer are excellent.

It's the whole thing.

This is the package.

This is, this is it.

This is complete Babylon five.

If you.

Watch this episode and you didn't like it.

What are you doing?

Watching this show?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do feel very five out of five for this episode.

Two.

Which is fine for the record, but what are you doing?

Listen to this podcast then to, I don't get

Yeah.

Why are you here?

Why do you hate

your Yum's.

All right.

Hated this episode.

I mean, maybe, I don't know if they hate themselves that much, then the, probably.

And they're still watching a show and listening to this podcast,

then they

definitely don't agree with me.

That's there's something in there.

The politically there's something in there.

you know, whatever, it's fine.

So.

Uh, But yeah, next up we've got season three, episode 10 sever dreams, earth

force sends destroyers to seize control of Babylon five Sheridan rallies.

The clue to fight back as the shadows gain allies or colonies defy martial law.

Yeah, there's a

It's part three.

There's a lot going on there and we're not going to talk a ton about it because

we're going to talk a bunch after the credits about other stuff that spoils.

So let's just get right to it and say some thank yous.

Thank you.

Jeremy Siegel for a while we see music, you can find more of

Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel.

42 top bandcamp.com.

And thank you to angry deck time machine on Instagram

for our podcast artwork.

Thank you to Erin, our lovely editor who edits these

episodes that we don't have to didn't forget you, but didn't say

thank you the last two episodes,

but so extra.

Thank you this time.

You have a lot more passive opportunities to thank him

than I do.

And I promise you that I do that.

But thank you to you.

The listener as well for being here.

Yeah, we appreciate you sharing our discord community.

We'll be talking on there.

You can probably scroll back and see pictures of my Scotland trip.

And yeah, it'll be, it's a good time.

Hit us up.

Who are five@gmail.com.

Throw us an email with some thoughts on some episodes we'll

read in our next mailbag segment.

Yeah.

We appreciate you.

We'll see you next week or in about 30 seconds.

And by.

Spoiler town population us.

You me.

And our listener right now.

All right.

So.

One.

Save the eye that cannot see.

This is the one I'm not sure about.

I got three things.

Okay.

It could be the eye, the Suntory artifact that Wando saved.

Oh, okay.

That's already done though.

We've done that.

Yeah, but it could be something with that.

It is an emblem of the office of the emperor.

For sure, for sure.

It could be a reference to Chicago, his missing eye,

which he still has right now.

Yeah, that was where I went, but it didn't, I don't know.

It just didn't make sense to me.

It didn't.

The headwind didn't sit.

So what's the third one.

Uh, The third one is.

I hasn't the letter I has in Londo himself.

Yes to do something.

Selfless or save himself.

I don't know.

We know that he doesn't.

Get this though, right?

Like we know how he dies.

Yeah.

know how he dies.

We know . He's an old man gets strangled by your car.

We know this happens because we see the future cut to it happening.

So he surrenders himself to his greatest fear.

Death.

He brings it on willingly.

He tells Jakarta, kill him when he gets super drunk.

So the thing controlling him, can't do anything about it.

Like we know this is how Londo goes out.

So we know it's number three.

And I also know what number two is directly.

I, . You know, I did not remember when, when lady Marella was saying it in

the episode, I was like, I don't remember.

Number one.

I don't remember.

Number two.

Then when you said it, when you listed it just now, I was like, there it is.

I remember.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think save the, I that cannot see is saving your car from losing

his eye, which he fails to do.

Yeah.

He does fail to do

You know, Dzhokhar getting tortured and going through his,

I believe it was three weeks of imprisonment on Suntory prime.

I'm not quite sure how long he's there, but I would be shocked if it wasn't

the three week symmetry of his missing.

Punishment from this episode, especially given this comes up and

in flash forwards that we've had.

We see Dzhokhar's missing an eye.

So this was already part of the plan.

Yeah.

So

Um, so I think that's what that is referenced

Sure.

Yeah.

To don't kill that who was already dead.

This is obviously Mr.

Borden.

Okay.

I didn't think that.

me.

Okay.

What'd you think it was.

I thought it was John Sheridan.

It could be Sheridan who does die.

Yeah.

That's that's what, and.

Because I think he's in jail with this.

The Centauri prime later.

So.

Yes, he is.

Uh, And he does have a chance to kill Sheridan in the far future.

But he doesn't kill him.

Yeah.

So that would be him getting out of his destiny,

which I guess he does right after

like the scene right after that, it said getting drunk

and having the getting killed.

Okay, but tell me the Mr.

Morton thing.

Cause that's seems like it would be more likely now that you said it.

Uh, Well, Mr.

Morton is dead.

Like the human that was Mr.

Morton.

His dad is inhabited by shadows.

That's a whole thing.

Um, and he does kill Morton.

Like he has Morton's head put on a pike for vere.

Now why would, why would not killing him be a chance at redemption?

Well, okay.

All right.

Maybe.

Okay.

I think what that chain of events leads to.

Is the is it the truck or the bad guys that come about towards the

end of season four, season five that were like the former shadow servants.

And they're the ones who put the thing on Alondo.

Yeah, this is what

is still around.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's nuking all of the shadows on Santori prime.

Like he does.

Nuking their entire Southern continent to kill all the shadows there and killing Mr.

Morton are what draw the ire of that race.

So maybe if he didn't kill.

Morton at the very least, maybe she knew to shadows, but didn't kill Morton.

Then maybe Morden would have gotten the drop to do something else.

And he would have been okay in the long-term.

Yeah.

Okay.

Hm.

Yeah.

And then number three, we talked about it.

It's him getting drunk and.

Effectively killing himself via Dzhokhar.

Yeah, he has to just give up and surrender to death, basically.

Yeah.

And surrender to I'd say his most feared enemy.

Yeah.

Not just that he's fearing death, but he also clearly does fear the NARKN.

You don't.

Ah, go and try to destroy something entirely that doesn't scare you.

In some way, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's my spoily town.

Yeah.

I was thinking, we . We've got to make sure that we keep these in mind and as the

things roll up, We we've got a reference back to lady Morella and her talk.

Yeah.

So keep it in mind.

All right.

Well, that's an episode.

Yup.

See you next