How to package your knowledge into high-converting online courses

Artwork for podcast What Was I Supposed to Be Doing?

Episode 35 • 27th February 2025 • What Was I Supposed to Be Doing? • Lauren Glynn

James Allen V3

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James: another key piece to um, to selling your programs online is you have to build the right audience. You definitely don't need as big of an audience as you think to get started. Bigger targeted audience is always better if you can have a hundred thousand people on your list, and they're all super engaged and they're the perfect type of people. More power to you. It takes a while to get there, you know, it just does. Welcome to the Process to Profit podcast, where we find out about the key processes and productivity techniques that drive successful service based businesses. Whether you're just starting out or looking to scale, join us as we uncover practical strategies to streamline your operations and help you make more money by boosting your profitability.

Lauren: Let's get started. My guest today is James Allen. James is an online coach for James is an online coach for coaches and content creators who want to have automated and scalable income that frees up their time so they can ditch the hustle and grind. Originally a productivity coach, James was obsessed with how to work fewer hours while simultaneously growing his income, which led him to learn about creating passive income with digital products.

As the founder of ProfitYourKnowledge. com, James has a passion for helping people turn their knowledge, ideas, and skills into an automated income that not only gives them more money, but also more freedom and fulfillment.

James, thank you so much for being here today.

James: Yeah. Um, I am super stoked to be sharing knowledge,

you know, that's what I do, and I get to help other people

do it too, so it's pretty rad.

Lauren: was pretty, yeah. So why don't we start by, I know I just read your bio, but why don't you kind of tell us kind of where you came from and who you help and all of those good things.

James: Yeah, so I

help

um, well, a.

lot of people are coaches that I work with or consultants. Typically, when I work with people one-on-one, they have spent, you know, 10, 20 years doing something. Uh, I just enrolled a new client. She, uh, is a. She's like a hairstylist. So she'll get hired for weddings, you know, and then she does their hair and all that.

And she has built a very good business, you know, over six figures. Uh, but you know, her shoulder's getting tired, her wrists, her her neck. She's kind of just getting a little bored behind the chair. And she's has this so much knowledge inside of her about how to build this business. And she sees other people who are getting out of, you know, hair school and they're like, I don't know how to get clients, or How do you build this thing?

And to her it's obvious, but to them they have no clue. 'cause she knows how to do it. She's walked the walk. So that's where she hired me to now help her. And she's already on a great role. We like just got started, but she's a perfect example of someone that I typically end up working with, um, where now she wants to teach other people how to do it, have an online business so she can have more freedom in her life, you know? Um, it is super fun to help people with this. But yeah, getting started, I was in construction work. I followed my dad's footsteps and I just kind of realized like, I don't want to do this. You know, nothing against like construction or hard physical labor, you know, it just, I didn't want to, it didn't, it didn't get me, get me excited and I wanted my life to be filled with excitement and joy, especially when it comes to work.

'cause that takes up like a third of our life or more. So I. Found out about coaching, and I realized that sounds amazing. Uh, I would love to just help people. And you know, I loved personal development, so I realized like I could be the coach and instead of me watching Tony Robbins, like I could be like Tony Robbins, maybe share a stage.

Haven't gotten there yet, but who knows, maybe. Um, but I could, you know, I, I was buying programs and all this stuff from people, relationships, like fitness, whatever, and I realized like, oh my gosh, like this is a legitimate career and these guys make a bunch of money and they have freedom. So I got my certifications, everything I got out into the field. And I realized it was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. I thought it was gonna make six figures my first year, and uh, that did not happen. It took quite a while. Uh, so, you know, I was testing things. I was a spiritual life coach when I started and I, it felt more like a therapist. Nothing against therapy too.

I love therapy. It's been very helpful for me. But I wanted to help people with careers in some way. So that's where, you know, like two years in, I transitioned into the productivity space. You know, I was helping a lot of sales professionals, coaches, that kind of stuff. Just buy back their time and, uh, be more efficient with their computers.

'cause they were just a mess. I got kind of burnt out on that and it wasn't what I really wanted to do. I really wanted to do what I'm doing now, but I didn't have the skillset to really confidently do that. So in the productivity space, I found out about like the coaching and um, I. Digital products and all that kind of stuff specifically, and how you can make passive income and have the laptop lifestyle and make money even when you're not working.

So I was like, that's what I want to do. So I built like six different digital products and funnels and all that didn't make me any money. It was like a year and a half of work that led to nothing. And I had coaching clients, you know, so I was making money in other ways, but not like passively or I was just getting consistent paychecks every month. So it was like the sixth digital products, uh, about where I finally. Made a program that I actually did things differently, which we can talk about the strategies and stuff. And that was when I remember waking up and seeing $200 randomly on, unlike my Kajabi account. I was like, whoa, who is this? So I looked, I'm like, have I ever seen this person before?

I haven't met them. Have I talked, spoke with them, zero interaction whatsoever. So they just found me on YouTube, uh, which is what I primarily use for traffic. And um, then they opted into my email list, read a couple emails. Landed on my simple landing page and then they bought my program and they paid me hundreds of dollars without ever meeting them.

I thought, this is incredible. And it was like two weeks later or so that I made another sale and it was about $300. And uh, then it started to snowball and I was making it like my rent every month, you know, it was a pretty significant, it was a couple thousand bucks, um, a month, which was incredible. And then my clients, a lot of 'em were coaches and stuff and they were like, whoa, that's really cool you're doing that.

'cause they, they asked, what are my wins? So I was like, oh, I'm doing this. This is what's working. They're like, can you help me do that? And I helped this one woman, her name was Carmen. She was a fitness coach and, um, she was terrified of being on camera, zero audience whatsoever. Uh, but she had clients, you know, like locally where she lived, but she wanted to make a global impact, so I helped her start a YouTube channel.

d everything set up. She made: 1500

And then they were getting the results too. And that's where I decided to, like, I could start this thing, call it Profit Your Knowledge. And then I just went on and it's, I've been doing that for a couple years now.

Lauren: Wow. So, uh, you know, a, a same position. My dad was an electrician and I saw that and saw the toll that it took on his body and his family life. And, you know, I was like, I just, I don't want that. For me, I don't, I have not built for it. It is not. Something that I would enjoy. So, you know, it's amazing how much our parents influence how we don't want to live sometimes. Um,

but it's great that you were able to kind of. Build and learn and take your knowledge and now kind of share it with other people. So you and I have talked before and you talk a lot about YouTube. Can you tell us sort of how you got started on YouTube? What inspired you to even go to YouTube for this?

'cause you don't hear a lot of service providers going to YouTube to try to get clients. People think social media, they think, you know, email lists. So what brought you to YouTube to try to start building your business there?

James: Yeah. Um, if you are a service provider or a Yeah, definitely a service. I mean, even if you like teach people, like if you're a car salesman, start a YouTube channel. It's crazy because. I see. When I was looking at different vehicles for myself, I saw these different YouTube guys. There were car salesmen.

They work for like Hansel autobody in like Colorado or whatever, and they're talking about tacos and stuff. And um, they were going over the ins and outs and like comparing different models and everything. And they have such a great personality. So it's like when I see that and I can go back and know that this is a reliable person, oh yeah, I like their videos.

Like I remember this person. Then what if I'm like traveling and I'm in Colorado and I'm like that, oh, he works at that one Hansel and I can go there. And it's like, he's a celebrity, you know, but he's just like doing what normal people do all the time. It's just, he chose to record it. So it's such a great plat, uh, platform and it's always working for you all the time. I didn't really think about that in terms of a business standpoint. I always just knew when I started my business that I like YouTube. I like watching YouTube videos. I get a lot of value from YouTube and um, I dunno, I was just naturally drawn to it. I thought I would love to have a YouTube channel. But the funny thing is I didn't start YouTube for a very long time.

It was maybe like, it was probably like. Two years in a year or two in year and a half or something like that, into starting my business because I was just nervous. Like, if it was me now, I would've started day one, start making a, a video a week. But, um, yeah, I was just scared and I didn't know what, what to do or how to present on camera and all that stuff.

I've gotten way better over the years and my clients were like, how are you so good? And it's like, I'm, I

could get way better, but I've also been doing it for like six plus years, you know, like all the time. So. That's just what happens. But yeah, and it was, um, you know, I mean, I posted tons of videos. Like I've unlisted so many videos from my YouTube channel just because they're not very relevant to my audience now, so there's no point in having 'em on the channel.

I did save some of like, like my first video, so if you go onto my YouTube channel, it's just profit your knowledge. And then you click on videos and then oldest, you'll see my very first video and it's super awkward compared to my nuance. Um, but yeah, it was just like, I just started, I remember like being in my bedroom and I'm literally in my bedroom when I do it. Camera angles like facing up to me. It's really weird. And, uh. I was just like, I'm just going to do it. You know, just start. So I had like a nice camera. I bought the camera and it was just sitting on my shelf for a long time. 'cause again, I was nervous. And then, uh, yeah, I just started recording and I just started doing it over and over again.

I'd get like two views on my videos, probably me and my mom, you know, and just watching the video and, um. Yeah. It wasn't until a bit later I found a really good mentor, Graham Cochrane, and he taught me about like how online business works. And he's really big in the Kajabi community. He's such a cool guy.

Uh, he's been like, he's probably like the biggest catalyst for me starting this whole thing. And then I learned from his mentor, like Ramit Satie. And they all taught the same kind of business model, which is what I finally did when I, that's kinda like the big difference between the six programs that didn't make any money versus the one that finally did. Um, and it was by following a good business model. And I think that's such a key piece. So, I mean, we can unpack the business model or whatever you want, but that's pretty much my story with YouTube.

Lauren: Yeah. And that was gonna be my next question. So what was the difference? What were you, what did you finally, and I'm gonna have to go back and watch that original video 'cause all of our, my original video's on there too, and it is very cringe. But, uh, what was the difference that you finally sort of figured out through working with your mentors of what you were doing before versus what actually ended up working for you?

James: Yeah. Um, very common question that I get when I share that story. Um, the big, like the, probably the biggest difference. Was with the five or six that I did build. That didn't make me any money. I was building them based on what I thought people wanted or I saw that other people had built programs, so I just built one and I never really did the marketing and like really knew about marketing and sales.

That's the huge piece. But the key to it is understanding pain points that people have and providing great solutions. That's really in a nutshell what marketing really is. And then the sales is them like purchasing that, uh, or it's getting discovered, you know? But I mean, even still, when you're making content like a YouTube video, it's. People are going to YouTube and they're trying to figure out how do I do this thing? Or they're interested in how to do something, and it just gets recommended to them and you are just solving their problems. So you have to really understand your target audience in order to do that, because I was just talking about a bunch of things that weren't very relevant to any one specific target group of people or person, and that's why I wasn't really getting the right people.

Or if I'd make an offer, it'd kind of fall on deaf ears. So the big thing that really changed that program from the other ones that failed was customer research. It was really getting to know my audience and I would sit on calls. I would do, I would go through Reddit threads. I would read YouTube comments. I. Whatever it was. Uh, look at past sales calls of the people that I really liked and I thought would be a good fit for the program, and took my notes and I compiled all of them into a document, which I now give to my clients called a customer research document. It's really simple, but it's, uh, basically breaking up a document or you can do a spreadsheet, whatever you want, into three sections. And the first one is challenges, pains, and frustrations. So anything where somebody says like, I just wish, or No, I. I, I really am tired of this. I'm so tired of blank, and I, I despise this. I hate feeling this way. You know? And, and then, um, that's what you wanna compile into that section is do any of those frustrations or pains that they have. The next, uh, section is hope, dreams and desires. So the things that I really want, that's where I just wish, I just wish I could feel this way. I wish I could look this way, you know, or experience this. I wish my business was doing X amount. And then the last one is, um, objections, barriers and uncertainties.

So basically in a nutshell, what you're finding is where are they at? What's annoying right now? What do they not like? Where do they wanna be? What, what does success look like to them And what, what feels really good to them that they're striving for? And then what's getting in the way? And that's really your

three points. So whatever makes sense for you, go with that. But that's what you wanna figure out. And that makes copywriting, uh, so much easier, which was the other big skill that I got better at. And I'm continuously getting better at it. I've gotten way better over the years. Um, but that is so big because like your emails when people opt in for your lead magnet, uh, your sales page, like all of that is copywriting. So if sales page, for example, if you have a really good sales page. Or even a halfway decent one. That's actually, it's making sales is what I mean. That's because you have good copywriting, and with the copywriting you're basically like having persuasive writing. That's what it is, and it's persuading somebody to like, Hey, this is a great opportunity.

You should take this. And it's basically taking a sales, it's salesmanship and print. So you're taking a salesperson and turning that into an. A page basically. And it's like having a sales rep that's always working for you 24 7. And when you're selling digital products, you don't have like a shelf life for any of this. You don't have to do a storage or deal with any of that stuff. So you essentially, when you get it dialed in, even remotely, you could be like printing money outta thin air. So I'd say the biggest difference was me really doing that customer research. And, uh, getting better at copywriting, but doing the customer research made copywriting so much easier.

'cause if I'm like really trying to dig into the pain on my sales page, oh, I just look over at my customer research document on the next tab and I'm like, oh, this is really juicy. I should take this and put that in. And a lot of my sales pagers just copy and paste from what people say they're experiencing and then plugging it into my sales page and kind of, you know, spicing it up around that.

Lauren: Yeah. You know, and I, I do the same thing with my discovery calls. If people are, you know, talking about specific pain points or talking about specific dream outcomes that they want, you know, I take note of those. I record all my discovery calls, I take note of those things. They're all saved in a document, you know, so it may, like you said, it makes it so much easier when you go back to now create a product or create a sales page.

Now you have their exact words. And you can speak to, you know, use, uh, everyone always says use their language, use their words, and you know, now you can actually do it because you have it, you know, in, in a Word document you have it recorded, however it is. So it's, it's easier to get to. So what would be your advice to someone who is saying like, well, I don't have an audience, so how am I supposed to sell to people?

't already have, you know, a.: 3000

James: Yeah. So you probably don't need as big of an, actually, you definitely don't need as big of an audience as you think to get started. Bigger targeted audience is always better if you can have a hundred thousand people on your list, and they're all super engaged and they're the perfect type of people. More power to you. Amazing. Most of us. It takes a while to get there, you know, it just does. So another key piece to um, to selling your programs online is you have to build the right audience. Funny story, I. Built up my productivity base and then I was like helping my clients privately with selling their own digital products. And I built a new program called Effortless Income, which I sell to this day. And it's been, it's had revisions and all that kind of stuff. And I'm actually gonna do another big revision coming up, uh, and a relaunch for it. But what was interesting is when I launched that program, it didn't make any sales. And I was like, I did the customer research, I did all the stuff like what happened? And the reason was because I built the wrong audience. I. So I had to rebuild and get rid of that old audience, which took some time. And then I started making sales with effortless income because this one was about like making digital products and you know, a passive income and that's why it's effortless income. So I had built a productivity base and I was trying to tie it together of like, Hey, this will help you be more productive. And I was trying to tie it together of like, Hey, this will help you be. So that's the importance of building the rock, trying to get into the fitness space. You throw a coding course at them, unless somehow it's gonna help 'em with meal prep or whatever, they're not gonna care. You know? So you have to really understand like who you're bringing into your world and be very clear on the niche, which I think is so important. And I neglected it for a long time.

And we can even talk about this 'cause I have simplified it to where it makes sense for me. So hopefully it makes sense for other people. 'cause I was so confused. Um, but. To your point, how do you build an audience? Um. You know, when can you make sales? Like those kind of questions. I built my audience through YouTube.

Basically, I would find questions that people were asking, and this is really easy to do. Uh, two great strategies. Number one, go into the search bar on Google, but also YouTube because Google owns YouTube now, which is a really smart move on Google. Uh, and you can just type in like how to bench press and you'll get the auto suggestion where the search bar will give you.

Be like, Hey, how to bench press 2 25? How to bench press. Your best friend. You know, like suggestions and that's stuff that people are commonly searching on Google, but they're also gonna be looking on YouTube because of the two biggest search engines in the world. Another pro tip is on Google. If you type in like how to bench press 2 25, we'll say, and then you scroll down the page, there's a, people also ask section.

And if you click on the three little dots right next to people also ask, you will see a little popup and it says, these are questions. People commonly search on Google. So it's like, okay, you're trying to search for how to bench press 2 25. This is what Google's thinking. Here's some other questions that like a lot of people have been typing in that might be relevant to you to help you get a better answer for what you're looking for.

And that's all content marketing is. It's answering people's questions, but it gets really spicy when you can package it in a sexy way. So if I'm a golfer, an amateur golfer trying to go pro, and that's my audience, uh, they would probably type in like, how to grip your club, you know, so I can, you know, have a proper swing or whatever. And if I made a piece of content, that was how a pro golfer actually grips their club. That's me making it like sexy. If I saw that and I'm an amateur golfer trying to go pro or just, you know, show my friends up, I'd be like, I have to click on it because I want to play like a pro, you know? So they're gonna click on the post or the video or the podcast or anything like that. Um, and when you're making the content, like you're answering those questions, you can also see other creators in your space and see what kind of content they're posting. And see, like if you go to YouTube, this is really cool. You can go to a creator's video that you really like. That has a similar audience as you, and they're making content that you would like to make.

And I would say make a list of like 10 plus of these people. Call 'em your heroes. You go to video on their channel or videos and then click on popular, and you can see their most popular videos by views. But the key is to look at views to the time ratio that it's been out. So if a video has like a million views, but it came out seven years ago. But there's a one next to it that has a million views, but it came out three weeks ago. Clearly, the three weeks ago is a way better topic because it boosted in views so much faster. So you can see what they're doing, how their thumbnail is and that kind of stuff, and you can make your own version of it.

Don't just rip it off completely, but. You can see like, okay, people are clearly interested in this type of content. And that's a key that I think every content creator or coach, you know, should make or should, uh, should develop. I guess a skill is pattern spotting. If you type in on YouTube, this is crazy, but if you type in how to get ahead of 99% of people, you will see so many thumbnails and so, so many videos and so many different niches. With the same exact packaging because that pattern works and it's like a stick figure. There's a big mound with a bunch of stick figures inside, and then there's like a golden stick figure outside of it that's like you, it's like, look, I'm better than everybody else. So. That type of video worked so well, and somebody released it one day and then everybody saw that it was working.

So then they started making that same type of video. And you know, over time it starts to get kind of like, oh yeah, there's a ton of videos like this. But if you can jump on that wagon or that pattern fast, you can get a ton of views. And then in your video, when you're answering the question. You can announce your lead magnet.

Like, Hey, by the way, I have this free thing that's really gonna help you with X. It's gonna solve this persistent problem that you have. There's a link in the description, or you can just do your video and just make sure that the link is in the description and it's like the only link there. 'cause people kind of know that, oh, there's usually something in the description. Uh, you can also pin the first comment. So you make your comment saying, Hey, download this now. Post it. And then there's a little three dots you can pin that comment. So if you do that with every video, like you find patterns that are working, you're answering people's questions, and um, you're doing it like once a week with your videos, then, uh, you put the description, you have your lead magnet link where people can go to a page and then opt in for it.

And you, uh. Pin it as the first comment, you'll start to get opt-ins and you'll start building your list. And the cool thing with YouTube is that it's always being, it's always working for you. I think about it like an an employee that never takes a break. You know, some videos will flop. Sure. But most videos will just continue growing and working for you, especially if you make. Content that isn't gonna get old, like how a pro golfer actually grips our club. Golfing's not going anywhere. People are always gonna be looking for that video and uh, they can start to find you and then opt in, find out about your email list, you know, subscribe, and that's how you start building email list.

ere asking is like, do I need: 3000

Lauren: Yeah, and you know, as someone who also does YouTube. It's an interesting balance between something that's already oversaturated and something that you can still talk about. So what's your thought on, you know, for example, the video that you gave, like how to be better than 99% of people. How do you balance saying like, oh, somebody's already, people have already talked about this.

I don't have anything new to say. There's no point in me making a video about it versus something that. You really want to talk about and it's really exciting, but there's not other videos about it or people aren't necessarily, you know, Googling it. How do you balance that decision of this is already oversaturated versus this is what I actually want to talk about.

And then that sort of middle of the Venn diagram about things people are actually searching for.

James: Yeah. You know, I'm in a. I'm in my own YouTube like coaching program, and we talk about this stuff every week, uh, business, but YouTube and how it all correlates and everything. And when it comes to having like a business, a coaching business, you, the nice thing is that you don't have to go viral with every video. Even a video can flop technically, and it will still make sales for you, like realistically, you just need one person to see your video and if you have a good funnel and it's the right person. They'll land on your, or they'll opt into your email list, find out about your product, and then they can buy literally, so like you can make five videos about topics that, I mean, you, there is a fine balance of like something that you are interested in, but in the end, like it's really what your audience is interested in and you serve in your audience. Typically we are a version of our audience. We're usually a bit more seasoned or we're a bit further on the journey than the people that we're trying to help, you know, which is great and that's how it should be. So like I am always learning. Anytime I invest in a program, I'm learning more and then I can share that with them. But like with YouTube, probably the hardest part is getting a click. The next hardest part is getting people to watch. And that's like really the two metrics you have to pay attention to. So that's why we wanna look at those patterns that are working and you can have an idea of like, oh, I really want to talk about this. But if I just said that, people probably wouldn't click because they don't understand the importance of it. 'cause to them it's not relevant. And this is what we call in our community, uh, putting broccoli in a burger. So if your kid is like. I don't wanna eat my vegetables, I don't want to eat broccoli. And you're like, but you have to.

It's vegetables. You need your veggies. And they're like, I just want a burger. You're like, okay. So what do you do? You cram as much broccoli as you can into the burger. I. And then you give 'em the burger and then they get their broccoli. And that's kinda what we need to do because we have to understand where your audience is at.

In terms of an awareness level, typically we are at a much higher level of awareness than they are. So this is kind of like a, a expert paradox. There is a, there is a name for it. I can't recall what the name is, but it's basically like. As an expert or someone who's much more seasoned than someone, we can't always relate to them because we're so far ahead of them and we can't always put ourselves in their shoes.

So it's a bit of an art form to consider where they're at mentally and like in terms of their awareness, like a mental marathon. Because if like, uh, a great example is like, uh, my YouTube coach, ed Lawrence, he made a video about lighting. And lighting is incredibly important. When you have good, like you have great lighting right now, um, I can see you.

I mean it looks great, the background, you know, and like that kinda stuff. I have good lighting because like I paid attention to that stuff and I was taught this stuff, but what he'll say in his video and package it around is like, this one thing will get you more subscribers than you can imagine, or something like that.

You know? Because what I'm thinking is I just want to get more subscribers. But I'm not thinking like the importance of lighting and how that really affects my videos. So they click on it because they're interested in the burger, which is getting more subscribers or views. But then as they watch the video, they realize, oh, the broccoli, what I really needed was. To really understand lighting. 'cause when I can have a good accent light in the background, you can have a good key light, you know, and it fills the space. It makes your videos look way more professional, which makes it more engaging. And then people wanna stay and watch. So it, it's a bit of a dance. But yeah, basically, I guess to sum that up, it's finding the patterns that are working and thinking, okay, how can I take the thing that I wanna teach people and, you know, position it in a way that they can't resist but to click on and then I can teach them like how. How that actually what I want to teach them applies to what they want to achieve. Hope that makes sense.

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. And it's something I've personally heard before, so it makes sense to me. And it's funny you mentioned lighting because my degree is actually in lighting design for theater. So thank you for complimenting my lighting.

James: it looks great. I.

Lauren: Um, very different doing it for video. It was quite the learning curve. Um, so a lot of what I've heard around digital products, so I'm interested to get your take on this, is you should do one-on-one services.

First so that you can build a methodology, a process, something that you can then teach in those digital products. Do you agree with that thought and or what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that you have to do something one-on-one before you can then package it to sell it as a digital product?

James: I think it's a smart decision to do that, and I know that not everybody wants to do that, but at the same time. Uh, do it because yes, you can build a digital product without ever coaching. Anybody can make videos and slap 'em behind a paywall or slap 'em behind like a Kajabi course, you know, anybody can do that. But if you really want to make sure your program sells and delivers the right value to people, it's one thing if you have a lot of experience doing the thing. But oftentimes when I hear from people, it's like, yeah, I know how to do this for myself, but teaching people how to do it is a totally different ball game. So that's where one-on-one coaching is really helpful, but you don't need to have like a hundred clients before you can finally start building a course. You could theoretically have like two or three people that you're coaching and if they're getting similar results. You know, despite being very different people with different circumstances and lives or whatever, and it's a repeatable system and you've built like the right resources to give them, like I have my customer research document.

I have a program outlined like when you're outlining your product. I have so many different templates I've developed. I. By working with people and I do it based on like when they're at that time and I give it to them being like, Hey, this is what's gonna work with you. And then we test it and I just know that it's gonna work because I've seen it firsthand.

You can test things so much faster because when I make a program and I put it out there, I want to trust that people are gonna like it, they're gonna finish it and it's gonna be valuable and get them the result. But like, how can you know if it's going to bring a repeatable result if you've never actually tested it with someone? So that's where I always say coach people first. And the cool thing is, you know what I do now if I wanna build a new program, I had built a program and, uh, recently I did this, but I had, I, I had some coaches hire me. I had some, a couple people work with me to help them do the thing that I've done myself. And I was like, I wanna turn this into a a course. So what I'm gonna do is as I'm working with you getting this done, I'm going to make the course content and I'll grant you access to the program. So you'll see the program constantly being built, you know, and you'll just get updates and you get to keep the course after this.

Does that sound good? And they're like, heck yeah, it sounds great. So you're gonna help me and I'm gonna get a course outta this. Amazing. So that's, um, that's a really smart way to do it, and that's how you can get paid to build your course too, is by getting hired. Um, to help people with the thing. And then as you're working with them, give them the course content. And I, I do this with my clients too. They're, I mean, people are always super pumped. They're like, wow, the course is really helping. 'cause it gives 'em something to study when they're not on a call with you, if it's every week or every other week, or once a month, or whatever you do. So it's like they have, they're constantly in your ecosystem.

That's kinda what I think about. Like my clients, they tell me all the time, they're like, James, I listen to you every day, whether it's your course, your YouTube channel. Or I'm talking to you directly, you know, so I think that it's a very smart move to do coaching. Build your program while you're coaching, and then you can know the, the program's good, and then you can start to sell it.

Lauren: Yeah, and that's a great idea. You know, a lot of people talk about doing, um, building as you, you know, selling it before you build it. And I think that's a great take on it because you're not really selling it before you build it. You're building it kind of as you learn what they need and then you're, it's a lot easier to sell it because you're getting that feedback.

So I think that's a great. Take on that, uh, that option. So one thing we haven't really talked about is sort of the mindset around this. What mindset shifts do you think service providers need to make in order to start either shifting to digital products or adding in digital products or, um, you know, what are the considerations for some mental blocks that they might have?

James: Yeah. Um, I mean, it, it totally depends on where people are at. 'cause there's a lot of mental blocks you can have. Like one big one is imposter syndrome. Am I really good enough to do this? Um, I. That oftentimes is someone who's much newer into the space. Not like one of my clients who's like, I've built a six figure business doing this in person.

I just want to go online with it. But I would say to that person, if you're trying to do it, like I had a client in the credit space, um, and he did it for. Well shoot like 15, 20 years as a credit expert. And now he has a YouTube channel. He sells credit courses. So I helped him do that and it was really cool. Um, but like if you're working with people, going back to that last question about should I coach people and build this, all your online course is, is a kind of like, it's just condensing your one-on-one coaching program into a self-paced version. So my course Effortless Income, it's everything that I do with people one-on-one. And they still get like a sense of coaching. There's a comment section. They can email me anytime they want. Uh, you know, if someone buys my course, like I don't mind sitting on a 45 minute call with them, just if I have time, I'm like, Hey, let's sit down. It's got surprise over delivery, you know, stuff like that. Um, but basically it's, it is the same process. So if you know you have a process and you're coaching people and it's like, or even working with people and like. A different job and you're like, I'd love to build a digital product, like do what we just talked about, build the program for those clients, even though you're not like starting a whole new business as like a, a, an online coach or something.

Like, you still have people that you're helping do the same thing. So build a program and just take 'em through that and, uh, get their feedback on it. I think that that's like the biggest thing. I think the biggest mindset shift is. You know, thinking that your program has to be this huge dirty lesson thing when it doesn't all people care about, like I talked about, uh, you know, I think we've talked about before is like, I don't care if you're certified.

I care that you can help me. And that's, that's what people really want. So your program, if you can help them get the result that they want, like, you know, building your credit. Getting to an 800 credit score from nothing or whatever from a 500 credit score, like this course will help you do it. But if I can help you get that result in 10 lessons compared to 40, I think you're only gonna thank me for that, for making it simple and getting you the same result. So what I always tell people is like you have to find the thing a big, like a problem that you can help people solve. Let's just use this example of helping someone like build their credit score to 800. Very clear. That's what you're gonna get as a result from taking this program. So that is, um, that's the value you're bringing to them.

And think like if you lay that out, like they're here, point a. They wanna be over here, point B. So point A, they have like a, a 400 credit score and they want to get to an 800 credit score and stay there, uh, build their credit the fastest way possible. So what, what are the 10 most important steps, like the non-negotiables that they have to do to get from point A to point B the fastest way possible? And then lay it out in like a whiteboard or a sheet of paper or something like that. Uh, and, and really get clear. It's like. Is this need to know or is it nice to know information? There's a lot of times people cram their courses with nice to know information that isn't fully relevant and then they have, people don't fi finish their program, so it's like, ah, it's not that great. So I, I mean, I have seen people get great results building programs this way, and I've seen it myself. I love getting messages from people who say, I finished your entire course, it was so good. It's because I built it. Based on things that were fully relevant to help 'em get the result that they wanted.

And then I filled in the gaps from what people actually said they wanted from going in my course. Like effortless income. Some guy was in the program and he was like, oh, I'd love to see more SEO related stuff. I was hoping there'd be more of that. So I'm like, oh, I thought I did that, but apparently it wasn't good enough.

So let me add some more. And I added a bit more. I like kind of touched on it, but I wasn't super confident. So I did the research, I practiced some stuff and then I added more, uh, resources to help 'em with SEO and different tools that they can use and things like that. So that's an example of you filling in the gaps with kind of that.

Nice to know or the extra information, but just get the foundation out, the meat and potatoes and you'll be way better off. I did this with, uh, Constance, who's one of my clients. She's a notary, helps other notaries build a successful notary business. She's crushing it. She's doing like two grand a month.

We hadn't even finished her sales page. It was amazing. And she was using TikTok primarily, but. She, um, she built her program this way. We helped her kind of map it out, keep it very simple, bare bones, and we were, we were looking at her program and you can see the course completion rate in Kajabi on like all of your students.

She had like 40 people in the program and it was like 90% course completed for like the 90% of the students. And I was like, well, you didn't tell me this, but she's like, new and she doesn't know. She's like, I don't know. Is that good? Is that normal? I'm like, no, it's not, but like, that's

awesome.

Lauren: it's good. No, it's not normal.

James: Right, but it's because she built a program simple and small in the beginning, tested it with actual students, and then added to the program based on what people genuinely said they wanted and needed. And that, I think that's a huge mindset shift. They'll help you build courses one faster, start making money faster, but you also build better courses too.

Lauren: Yeah. Well, it has been so great talking to you today, James. Um, if you could give everyone one final piece of advice on passive income creating their digital course, what would it be?

James: Yeah, it's, uh, it is a, it can feel, I should say like a very big hurdle. How do you do this? Like an overwhelming, a daunting task as daunting is the word that I hear from people all the time. Customer research. Um. There's a great proverb I say all the time on my podcast, you know, my content and everything to my, to my students.

And it's the work. We'll teach you how to do it. So if you wanna build a course and you're like, oh my gosh, I have to build like this. The emails, you know, the sales page, the sales page alone is, is overwhelming, you know? But then there's the program. I have to record the whole thing. Just start. Start with an outline.

Start by having some conversations with people. Like what's your biggest challenge related to this? What's your biggest hope, dream or desire related to this and what's kind of getting in the way? That's the customer research. Keep track of those things and when you get, and when you see a pattern of like, most people want this thing, then where are they at?

Where do they wanna be? That's the transformation of your course. Lay out a simple outline and it's funny 'cause when you start doing, just like just start doing something more action steps are revealed to you and you're like, oh my gosh, I finished my outline. Well, I guess now I just have to record them. You know. Okay. And then it's like, okay, I recorded my outline, or I recorded my videos. Okay, well now I need a tool. I, I got like hijabi or, or Thinkific or something, and I'll just upload my videos, like just one task at a time and just do it and then do the next one. The work will teach you how to do it. I think it's the biggest tip I can give.

Lauren: Yeah, and that's great advice to just start because that's often the the biggest hurdle I think that people face in any of the business situations that they find them in. Well, again, thank you so much for being here. If people wanna get in touch with you, how can they do that?

James: Yeah, you can, uh, at this point you can just Google profit your knowledge and I'll pop up. You can check on my YouTube channel. Uh, if you do want to just get a deep dive into how this stuff works in passive income, building the products, you know, the, uh, the whole funnel and all that backend stuff. 'cause even with a good backend funnel, you can have like a, like a small amount of traffic and you could still make sales. So I put together a masterclass on how to earn $2,000 per month from digital products. Without complicated tech, and you can get that by going to profit your knowledge.com/masterclass. Probably have a link in the show notes too. Um,

cool. And I can send it to you if you didn't get it. But that is a great place to start.

And, um, you know, there's, you can check out Effortless income from there and that kind of stuff, but I'm pretty easy to get in touch with. I don't do a lot of social media, but if you email me, if you get on my email list, reply to any one of my emails, uh, that's a very easy way to, uh, to get in touch with me.

Lauren: Yep, and I'll put all those links in the description, like you said in the show notes. And I have taken that masterclass and it was really informative for a free masterclass. It had a lot of great information in it. So I highly recommend if you're interested in these things, to go take a look at. It. Well, James, it was wonderful talking to you again and, um, I hope that you enjoyed your time here, and I will be talking to you soon.

James: Awesome. Thanks.

Lauren: All right, thanks everyone. Bye-bye.

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