E1: Horus Rising Part 1 Ch 1-5

Episode 1 • 23rd June 2023 • Zero to 40K • Walter Stewart

Erik:

(Music) Zero...zero...zero to 40k (Music ends.)

Walter:

Greetings again, citizens of the Imperium. Welcome to Zero to 40K: the podcast where I drag three friends kicking and/or screaming into the world of Warhammer 40,000. I'm your host: Warhammer Walter Stewart. And here to discuss the book Horus Rising are my three co-hosts. Sarah.

Walter:

Sarah, how are you?

Sarah:

I'm good. Hi.

Walter:

What are you. What do you thinkin’ five chapters in?

Sarah:

Oh, man. I did have a note and I'm going to try as much as possible not to be this person. But the note I wrote was, “Everybody is gay. I don't make the rules.”

(Laughter)

Walter:

So I think we have a lot to say about a certain chapter, and when we get there, we will get there.

Walter:

If everyone reading from home, I feel, knows what chapter we're talking about.

Shannon:

And we don't mean that in a bad way.

Sarah:

No. I should clear... I'm gay. So, I say that with all the love in my heart.

Walter:

I guess there's some in chapter. Well, well...yeah. Oh, there's a lot on this subject to say for sure. Erik. Erik, how are you feeling about chapters one through five?

Erik:

I wanted to say that I've got one hand on the ship and the other is giving a high five today.

Shannon:

What does that mean?

Erik:

I don’t even remember if I quoted that correctly.

Sarah:

The hand from...yeah. The hand of the ship is upon you.

Walter:

Yeah... I...

Shannon:

OH!

Erik:

So it’s the other way.

Walter:

Yes, the hand of the ship upon *you*.

Erik:

I'll be honest. I thought of this on the drive over here today, so I didn't remember the actual quote.

Walter:

...and the other one’s giving a ...peace sign.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Everyone

(everyone speaking at once and laughing)

Erik:

That’s going to be my schtick on the show. Whenever I introduce myself, I'm going to quote Alanis Morissette.

Shannon:

I know. I. I just wanted to make this clear that oftentimes when I read books, my brain throws everything out after I'm done. And so we'll see how this goes with me being on this.

Shannon:

Cause as soon as he said that, I was like “Whattt...”

Walter:

Oh, the hand of the ship is is upon all of us now.

Erik:

So I need to remember for next time that the hand of the ship is upon me and the other hand that the ship is giving a high five.

Shannon:

Is giving a peace sign...

Walter:

Well, definitely not a peace sign. I suppose, in Warhammer. So...givin’ a sign of the aquila.

Shannon:

Oh man, I wish you had told me.

Walter:

And it requires two hands. So...

Shannon:

I would’ve prepared my best Alanis Morissette.

Erik:

(singing) A high five-uh...

Walter:

Moving on.

Walter:

Our third co-host Shannon.

Walter:

Hello.

Shannon:

Oh, hello. How are you? Did you already talk to Sarah?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

Oh, my god I forgot already.

Erik:

The books go right out of your mind. The podcast...

Shannon:

Everything does. What happens...

Shannon:

Yes.

Walter:

Tell us. What do you thinkin’... chapters one through five? I know a little bit how you're thinking because I was sitting next to you while you were listening to it.

Shannon:

And you heard me take off. You saw me take off my pixel earbuds in disgust.

Walter:

Just look over and “what the fuck is happening?” was the quote.

Shannon:

I can't talk about that. It’s not time for chapter two, yet.

Walter:

Well, we’re going to get to these chapters. We have a lot to say on chapter 2.

Shannon:

I got to really like ... when I was reading through this, you know, and I read through all of the Song of Ice and Fire series books, which, you know, if you don't know, that's the Game of Thrones books. And I have never even having read those read so many names that I was like, I don't know who these people are.

Shannon:

I don't care. I don't. So that's how I felt.

Erik:

Like there is some comparison, like the different fleets and bannerman and stuff from Ice and Fire.

Shannon:

Yes.

Walter:

And that should lead us into before we even get to chapter one I think some folks want to talk about, and this is the thing you're going to see in a lot a lot of Warhammer books is the dramatis personae page at the very beginning of it with the aggressively long list of everyone, vaguely featured in this book.

Erik:

I do legitimately like this.

Shannon:

My favorite. Can we talk about just our favorites? Just reading the list. My favorite was Little Horus.

Sarah:

Favorite names?

Erik:

Oh, are we talking names that we like or characters we like? Okay.

Shannon:

Just names... just reading the list.

Sarah:

Little Horus made me irrationally angry. Yeah, my... Name. Name him something else. I beg of you.

Shannon:

I said to Walter... I was like, “Is little Horus... his penis?”

Sarah:

I mean, kind of.

Walter:

When we get to chapter two, going to get into a lot of these details.

Shannon:

Okay.

Sarah:

I'm interested to hear how everyone says these names.

Shannon:

Well, I listened to the audiobook, so but I so I want to hear how you guys like which ones are you.

Sarah:

Ez-uh-kyle...Abba-don.

Shannon:

Ezekiel.

Walter:

Ezekiel.

Sarah:

That's not how it’s spelled....

Erik:

They do a lot of these, like...

Shannon:

These are all...they do the...

Erik:

Cutesy spellings...kind of also like Ice and Fire. Geez.

Shannon:

Yeah! was gonna say...

Shannon:

It is just like the Ice and Fire series where they put a Y in like, you know, kind of reminds me of you know... whenever you see someone named Jennifer, but with like a Y. Y’ know?

Walter:

Well we just lost the key Jennifer of the Y demographic...to our podcast...

Shannon:

It's Tynnyfer with 2 Y’s. That's from Parks and Recreation.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

You got it. Ok.

Walter:

So yes, so that but all, all of these characters who you will eventually meet.

Erik:

I’ll be Erik with a Y from now on. E-R-Y-K is how you will spell my name.

Shannon:

Okay....

Walter:

me, and this book came out in: 2006

Walter:

And I'm reading it and I'm like, Oh my God, they don't tell you what any of these things are. So I'm very excited to see where you all go from this. I feel like a bunch of information thrown at you.

Sarah:

Figure it out.

Erik:

I feel like being a fan of the Dune series has prepared me to just not understand things...

Shannon:

There were touches of Dune in here.

Erik:

There's a lot of Dune.

Shannon:

So I want to talk about some of that.

Sarah:

It also reminded me of--I don’t know if anyone else is into these games--of doom eternal.

Walter:

Oh. Oh yes.

Sarah:

The latest in the Doom sort of. I think that's the last one they did. In the Doom anthology.

Walter:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, it made me think of that. In some places.

Walter:

Oh, the people. So the people that made Warhammer read Dune and that's going to become very apparent as these books go on. And I'm confident the people that play ... made Doom ... played some Warhammer.

Sarah:

Like Warhammer ... came first...

Walter:

Some of this esthetic is 100% in there. Uh...

Shannon:

Some of these nicknames I'm looking through them having read the first five chapters and I'm like “half heard? what does that mean?”

Walter:

When we get to Mr. Iacton Qruze ... spelled with the Q.

Shannon:

Yes, it is “cruise” (Qruze)

Walter:

We will ...you'll ...you'll learn all about it.

Shannon:

Okay. Okay. All right.

Walter:

Well, I say we dive in to chapter one. Loken appears on “This Imperial Life”. 1,000,001 names. Loken does a cool guy move. So that's and that sums up chapter one boy.

Walter:

They throw you right into the thick of it with a little. Nothing says action packed like a little storytime... little ... little guy deciding to tell the story that was.

Shannon:

(Impersonating the narrator) “It was a delicious conceit”

Sarah:

Yes. The imagery...

Walter:

Overwrought. So where are people coming at? You know, we start off with Loken and he's telling his cool, cool guy story about the time Horus slew the emperor. And you start reading, you're like, What's going on? To find the reveal that he's not talking about that emperor and he's not talking about any of these people. He's talking about this time that they went to a planet with their crusade fleet.

Walter:

So, yeah, give me your impression. What do you all think is happening here? Because they throw a lot of stuff about what's going on in this crusade.

Shannon:

Before we get into the story, I just want to say immediately, I hated Torgaddon. I don't like anybody who's described as a joker. In real life or in books. But yeah. And I was immediately annoyed.

Sarah:

If you have to say they're a joker, then they're not funny. It's like almost always,

Erik:

It usually means they’re an asshole.

Shannon:

Okay, But. We can really get into the story.

Walter:

This. I don't want to do it. Well, I don't want to skip ahead too much, but I have definitely things to say in chapter three, featuring Torgaddon and his jokester-ness. For sure.

Walter:

Yes. As we all get to as he's just a wacky prankster.

Shannon:

Okay, so this chapter. Yeah. What do we have to say about this?

Sarah:

Like, is this all just like a Three's Company-esque misunderstanding? Because this stuff's kind of how I was like, is this actual Earth is how I was reading that.

Shannon:

So that’s how I was reading it, too. I was like, These people worship the emperor, but they don't realize this guy is the actual real emperor.

Walter:

Yeah.

Erik:

So here's my take.

Sarah:

Okay?

Walter:

I love it.

Erik:

And this is coming from Dune. If you've read enough Dune, there's something called the scattering. And this is where this is coming from. My thinking is that at some point there is a big crisis. Maybe it's the Old Night?

Sarah:

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

Erik:

e right. And you pop back out: 2000

Walter:

That is like.

Walter:

That is a takeaway. To have about this.

Erik:

Damn! I really thought I was going to be right about that.

Shannon:

But can we talk about what we really want to talk about which I know you want to the first sentence that grabbed me and I was like, yes, “a beautiful man. Loken would say building his tale, a beautiful man adored by all.”

Walter:

I hope the audiobook reader wrote it read just like that.

Shannon:

Yeah, well, it was. I mean, it was pretty sensual.

Sarah:

I wrote a note, Horus loved Sejanus? Is that how, Suh-jan-us?

Shannon:

Suh-jane-us

Erik:

I think Latin and Greek as well. You emphasize, you emphasize the second syllable.

Sarah:

Okay, cool.

Walter:

Yeah. So as we go.

Sarah:

So I wrote down that Horus loved Sejanus like a son. Sure Jan.

Walter:

Yeah. We got to really put the emphasis on the anus part of Sejanus.

I think for sure.

Shannon:

(heavily emphasizing) Suh-JANE-us

Walter:

And we're going to see a lot of very fake Latin.

Shannon:

Yeah, and keep in mind these are British books right?

Walter:

Right, British fake Latin.

Shannon:

There's a British narrator.

Walter:

But yeah, he is a he is, is thirsty for Sejanus. And it's unfortunate that we don't get to see more of this beautiful man because a…

Shannon:

“No finer figure in Mark IV plate than Hastur Sejanus”

Erik:

And if we take the imagery from the front of this book to represent it like.

Shannon:

I don't think Sejanus is there, I think we would know.

Sarah:

They make a point of, this is kind of a spoilers for future chapters. Every time they introduce a character, with few exceptions, they're like, So he was a handsome man. And then I'm like looking at the cover of the book. Like him?

Erik:

And so much of them, it’s just their armor.

Walter:

Yeah, yeah.

Walter:

These guys are just too awkward guys.

Sarah:

That face is busted like I don’t know.

Walter:

They have a different, beauty standards have changed.

Shannon:

This is where I was like I’m here for this beautiful man. You know, as as the person here who's attracted to men. Then I'm. I'm down. I want to see this. I want to see this man on screen in whatever TV show Henry Cavill is producing.

Walter:

Well, the problem is you don't even get he's like a flashback character. He’s not like the main, like Loken.

Erik:

That's good for the show they can get like a big name.

Sarah:

Yeah and not someone, casting who do you think who’s Sejanus?

Erik:

All of my references are 20 years old.

Shannon:

Is that where Henry Cavill puts himself in?

Sarah:

Is that Henry Cavill’s self insert?

Shannon:

I mean, he is the most beautiful man.

Erik:

Well we learn that all of them kind of look pretty similar. Several of them look similar. So maybe Cavill will just play every role.

Walter:

Oh, I am here for it.

Sara

Yeah cause they all share a geneseed?

Walter:

They do share a geneseed, that is, yes.

Sarah:

Yes, that was. I have a running list. That's just: “What the fuck is that?” And geneseed was on that list, and I think I kind of figured it out as the chapters went on.

Walter:

It is. So I made a list of nonsense terms I'm picking out, and it's amazing that I have apparently read “geneseed” so many times That I did. I just glossed over it. It's like, “Oh, that's a weird phrase for someone new to read.”

Shannon:

The one that really got me and why I started looking at the Kindle version of the book instead of just the audio version was when I got to warp dilated horologue.

Sarah:

Yeah, what is the horologue?

Walter:

Like clocks.

Shannon:

Sounded like he was saying “horror logs” because he was a British man saying that. So they don't say “R”s the same.

Sara

Yeah, just using, just writing “clock”

Erik:

They got them wrong “R”s

Shannon:

They do got them wrong “R”s

Shannon:

Really amp up the Midwestern accent in here.

Sarah:

But Sejanus gave me some like not exactly the same because he dies but like Helen of Troy vibes. Like, Oh, here's this beautiful man that everyone loves, man. And then that face launched like a thousand ships that kind of thing.

Walter:

Or one speartip.

Sarah:

Yeah, a thousand speartips.

Walter:

We always talk about the speartip.

Shannon:

Okay? Yeah.

Sarah:

Is that a ship?

Shannon:

No, I think they’re saying they're throwing spears at people.

Walter:

That is.

Sara

Is it like a “battle barge?”

Walter:

Oh! So it is amazing that you got that, so there are not battle barges yet, but there are battle barges in 40k!

Sarah:

Is that a thing?

Erik:

I assumed it was the formation of their ships. Making a spear.

Walter:

So okay we're going to talk so the Sons of, oh pardon me the Luna Wolves they're not, well we’ll talk about Sons of Horus, the Luna wolves like to attack like a directly at like the biggest threat. So they send like all of their best guys in at like a spear tip attack to, like, tear out the throat of the enemy.

Shannon:

So they're the spear.

Walter:

They are the tip of the spear is like.

Erik:

Okay, I think they’ve even said that directly in the reading, but there is so much other junk going on.

Walter:

Oh yes

Shannon:

I'm realizing. I'm like, did I not understand what this is about at all? So can I just ask? So these people are basically crusaders. They're going across saying, Hey, you got to worship this emperor.

Walter:

Well, we'll get to why they don't worship the Emperor.

Shanon

They do, though. They do.

Sara

Semantics

Shannon:

Okay, so they're doing that. They they this was actually kind of the first creepy thing they kept saying greenskins, which just made me a little like, oh, why do you keep saying greenskins.

Erik:

Oh, I’d forgotten that they said greenskins.

Walter:

Now those are you haven't run into them yet. Those are orks. Those are the 40k version of orcs.

Erik:

Oh those are the orks.

Sarah:

Ooh, because they describe them as being bestial.

Walter:

Yeah. So they're not.

Shannon:

So they're not just making humans agree with them?

Walter:

No they don't. Well they don't even like get the, like the orcs they’re not like, hey you have to join the Imperium. They're just like murdering orks.

Sarah:

Here's my understanding of this so far and correct me if I'm wrong, or don't correct me if that makes it funny and you want me to keep going with this.

Walter:

Even better!

Sarah:

Is that kind of like you were talking, the scattering, like humanity scattered, kind of lost touch with each other. And now there's this crusade to find all of these, like, human outposts, colonies like places and reunite them.

Walter:

Yes.

Sarah:

And that's the crusade. But if they're not human, and we find them, we just slaughter them and take their planet.

Walter:

Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Big murders.

Shannon:

Okay. But the people that are running this aren’t even humans, they're like, we're so much fucking bigger than humans.

Sarah:

Well, they're GMO.

Walter:

Yeah. Oh.

Walter:

Monsanto Space Marines. Yes. And this is all the terms.

Shannon:

Okay. Yeah, terms. Sorry, I just saw that in my notes: Space Marines, Imperial Astartes, uh Legions. Are these all the same thing?

Walter:

All. This is all the same thing. This is my favorite.

Erik:

That's my question: Titans. Are they on our side or the other side, because at some point in the fight I was like “Who the fuck are these Titans? Whose ships are these? I don’t understand!”

Shannon:

Are Titans? I think Titans, Titans are some of the Space Marines? Or are they people above the Space Marines?

Walter:

They're a different group in the Imperial military entirely.

Shannon:

Oh my god.

Erik:

They’re like big robots right? They’re mech suits.

Sarah:

Are the Titans and the Mechanicum the same thing?

Walter:

Yes! The Titans are with the Mechanicum.

Sarah:

Okay.

Erik:

But assuming are they on Loken’s side?

Walter:

Yes.

Erik:

Because at one point in the reading I thought the Luna Wolves were the bad guys too. And I was just, I couldn’t keep track of you know.

Shannon:

But are the Luna Wolves, a small group of Space Marines?

Walter:

Correct.

Shannon:

So Lunar Wolves are space Marines. Not all space Marines are Lunar Wolves.

Walter:

Yes. There's our syllogism for today.

Shannon:

But space Marines, Imperial Astartes, Legions, that’s all the same?

Walter:

The legions are groups of Space Marines.

Shannon:

Ok, and Lunar Wolves is maybe one of those Legions.

Walter:

Yes. It's all coming back, all coming together. But then we get into the violence. You know, it goes on. And this fake emperor is is being a real dick and killed the handsomest space Marine.

Shannon:

Is he a fake Emperor?

Walter:

Well I guess he’s a real emperor. But he's not their emperor. But he murdered the handsomest boy.

Sarah:

But is their emperor actually the Earth Emperor? Is still the thing I have, because the name of part one is “The Deceived” which I don't know if I was supposed to look at that.

Walter:

You could look at that, it is right in the thing.

Before we move on from chapter one, I did just note occasionally I noted my favorite as we talked about this sort of overwrought language, some of my favorite like similes and analogies and metaphors that this guy uses,

Sarah:

and it was the last page of chapter one. It was Nero Vipus’ laughed, the sound snuffling out of his helmet mask like the cough of a consumptive bull.

Erik:

Which is just clear as day.

Sarah:

And the idea of a bull with tuberculosis is just the funniest thing.

Walter:

Paints a picture doesn’t it?

Sarah:

That is a very interesting because usually simile is just “here's the thing you're familiar with and I'm going to explain like, this is like this thing.” Everyone knows what a bull with tuberculosis sounds like.

Walter:

Yeah, it's just it's very obvious. Yeah. So but before we leave chapter one, so we see Loken. He's coming in with the spear tip. They're attacking these guys that murdered the handsomest Space Marine.

Erik:

Who I still think are from a time warp, but go on.

Walter:

From totally from a time warp. And he's. He's. He's trying to beat Abaddon to the prize. And he does a cool move, killing a turret, which is like, because they have to can't let whole chapters go by without violence.

Shannon:

That's all in chapter one?

Walter:

That’s all in chapter one.

Shannon:

Oh my goodness

Erik:

That's why it was so confusing. Who is who on whose side? There's a lot of battle crammed into like three paragraphs. And I say, speaking of the turret, I'm glad you brought that up. They talk on and on and on about these invisibles and they're building them up. And then there's like an invisible enemy at the end of this chapter, and then it's just a turret. And it’s kind of anticlimactic.

Erik:

We get to Invisibles quickly after that, but still for the first chapter.

Walter:

And he just throws a grenade and it's like, I killed it. Yeah. Cool. And way to go first guys, why are you dumb or whatever? Or like, he throws a face. Yeah, but that's not the chapter we want to talk about.

Walter:

That's not what we're here to talk about. To talk about that. We are here to talk about chapter two. The thirstiest paragraph in Warhammer Loken meets a black woman. Horus starts ‘a risin’. So let's just go.

Shannon:

I just want to say I was so frustrated that the first the first thing we even say about a female character is that she's lusting over this guy. And not only that, they talk about how attracted she is to him, and then they go on to describe the most disgusting man I have ever tried to imagine. They talk about gigantism of the face. They talk about his ribless torso.

Walter:

Hard taut shell of his ribless torso. I love that line. Like stretched canvas.

Shannon:

I have never once said Oh he would be so much more attractive if he had no ribs.

Walter:

That's going to be the new look.

Erik:

The moonlight showed in the window and played delicately across his stretched canvas smooth rib cage.

Shannon:

I’m just Imagining like a giant bug. I'm like, because if you don't have bones, if you're not having normal bones, what I'm imagining is a lobster body.

Erik:

No bones equals exoskeleton. Yeah.

Walter:

Yeah. I was thinking sausage casing.

(groans of disgust)

Erik:

I can't deal with that. And with a horse face!

Sarah:

Like a weird flesh barrel.

Erik:

Oh! Horse faced flesh barrel!

Walter:

Well horse faced flesh barrels is going to be how I refer to Space Marines.

Shannon:

And yet, mmm.

Sarah:

Mersadie, that’s just her type. Is horse faced flesh barrel.

Erik:

I thought it was supposed to be like “Mercedes”

Shannon:

It's Mersadie, that’s how he says it in the audiobook. But audiobook narrators are sometimes wrong.

Erik:

And by that I mean when other people talk about their audiobooks and they disagree with how I pronounce words, I say that they're wrong. I don’t know if that’s true.

Shannon:

It's like when I was audiobooks for like a Song of Ice and Fire, sometimes the the same narrator would say the someone's name differently in the second book. Like, it was frustrating.

Erik:

“Jam-ee.” Cersei and her brother Jam-ee.

Sarah:

On a similar note, Can we talk about just how awkward and clunky the term “remembrancer” is? There's got to be a better

Shannon:

And “iterator” well, we’ll get to the iterators.

Walter:

Well that's the question are we iterators or are we remembrancers here on this podcast.

Shannon:

Well we didn't talk to anybody or look at anything firsthand we were just iterating.

Walter:

We're iterating. Okay, good now we know what we are doing.

Sarah:

That makes sense. Okay, I'm going to just write that on my list of what the fuck is that.

Shannon:

Remembrancers seem to be on the ground journalists.

Erik:

But one's a poet, so they're like a I actually really like the chapter that's jumping ahead. But I like the idea of that guy

Shannon:

I hate that guy

Sarah:

Goddamn him

Erik:

I hate that guy to, but I like the idea that these journalists, some journalists are poets.

Walter:

Or sculptors.

Shannon:

You're right. You're right. Yeah.

Walter:

And taking “picts” because I've got to have “pict” p-i-c-t because it's got to be spacey. But yeah so rembrancer is a bit of a word to get around. And then it got to the chapter of Tell Me you're a British author without telling me you're a British author where if I can find where it's like, I know I don't really know what women are supposed to look like. Are all women supposed to be small and weak? And are they all supposed to have skin so Black? And it's like, uggghhhhhhh.

Sarah:

Loken had very little experience of women. Again, everybody is gay. I’m just adding that.

Shannon:

He wondered if she dyed her skin.

Erik:

And this is the thing to have hoped that this book was written in the eighties.

Sarah:

Yeah, that's unacceptable.

Erik:

Maybe in: 2006

Sarah:

What’s wrong with her head?

Shannon:

Yeah, I was wondering that too. Can you tell us what's happening with her head?

Erik:

She has an oblong head.

Walter:

I am presuming and I don't know if they actually say, but I am presuming she has

Shannon:

I think she’s just shaved.

Walter:

No, I’m presuming that she has enhancements like she has robo-stuff, to do her thing.

Sarah:

It’s like an implant.

Shannon:

To take pictures, cause she says later she

Sarah:

Blink pictures

Shannon:

She’s like blink blink

Walter:

Cause she is recordering things with her head equipment.

Erik:

She's like Cam Jansen. Did that reference totally fall flat?

Shannon:

I don't know. Sorry

Erik:

Goddammit, Google Cam Jansen everybody.

Shannon:

No, I'm not googling anything.

Walter:

But yeah. So I'm presuming that she has some sort of of enhancements and like implants and everything. And it's not just that he's like, what's with her head? It's strange. So although “does she dye her skin?” Real, real awkward. Yeah.

Sarah:

So there are no black…

Walter:

There are

Shannon:

There’s no black Space Marines or whatever he is?

Walter:

erence between Games Workshop: 2006

Shannon:

When we get to the fact, though, that a lot of them are clones?

Walter:

They're not clones precisely. They have a geneseed.

Shannon:

(groans in disgust) I don’t like that term.

Sarah:

And you can harvest the geneseed when they die?

Walter:

Yes. Well, we'll talk about what apothecaries do with their nartheciums later. But yes, there's geneseed harvesting to be done. I don't know how much you want me to get into the biology of space Marines and how they're created, but it's not when a mommy Space Marine and a daddy Space Marine love each other very much.

Shannon:

Well, that's what I was also wondering is how do they not have sexual impulses? Because they seem to not be around women. And and I know that there are.

Walter:

You are.

Shannon:

I know that you know maybe?

Walter:

You're opening a huge can of worms that the 40K community talks about a lot. And there's questions of do Space Marines have penises? It seems like they do, because they wear a loin cloth!

Shannon:

Well, I have a sentence I want to bring up in relation to that later.

Walter:

Oh, okay.

Walter:

I presume that because they wear a loincloth.

Erik:

Maybe that's just for butt covers.

Walter:

That could be.

Shannon:

Because we know they have butts that is canonical.

Sarah:

Canonically they have butts.

Shannon:

Because he says later on, wipe your ass with the other hand.

Walter:

Yes, that is true, but there's a lot of questions on whether space Marines have urges and impulses and whether they have sex. And then there's a lot of, you know, Warhammer smut written. So as we go on, but there we go. Right? There's a lot of it out there. And actually the more I'm reading Dan Abnett and some of his thirsty, thirsty chapters and everything, I'm starting to really wonder if there's actually like a 40k eroticism author “Ann Dabnett” out there somewhere and that he had to start, you know, like getting that out into another world.

Erik:

So is the word thirsty in all of our notes?

Sarah:

I mean I wrote gay a lot. That’s probably what I meant.

Shannon:

I didn’t write thirsty, I wrote lusting.

Walter:

I wrote hot opener, loincloths, thirsty time, what a waste.

Sarah:

Just very sexily cleaning his weapons or oiling them or something weird.

Walter:

And using his lapping powder which I do not know what that is.

Shannon:

So I think I’ve heard that before. I think that is the thing I, I don't know.

Erik:

And he's big, right? They big.

Walter:

Oh yeah they're huge. But Space Marines are like eight, nine feet tall.

Shannon:

Oh, okay.

Walter:

So they're they're all massive with their taut ribless meat torsos.

Shannon:

And in this chapter is also why when I started writing, why are they called? Why called? I said, why called Brothers?

Sarah:

Yeah, like Battle Brothers, brother Jubal or whatever.

Shannon:

But we got back to it later. We got into that later.

Walter:

Yeah. I started keeping a running total of how many times I hear brother and it’s a lot.

Sarah:

I meant to call you all brother when this started but I forgot I was going to do that.

Walter:

Brother, brother, brother, brother. Brother!

Shannon:

I wrote down Horus equals Warmaster equals commander, question mark?

Walter:

Equals Lupercal.

Walter:

Or did they say “Looper Saul” or do they super call Lupercal?

Shannon:

I did not hear a “Lubri-sol”.

Walter:

You're now you're putting a lot of extra things into it.

Shannon:

Lubrizol

Walter:

It's what the Space Marines keep calling out.

Shannon:

So okay, I don't remember that, just gonna be honest with you.

Sarah:

But just the Luna Wolves, right?

Walter:

Yes, Yes, that's their nickname for the Commander, Warmaster, etc.

Shannon:

There’s sometimes just for my brain protection I blocked out certain words.

Walter:

So we have Mersadie just eye fucking Loken aggressively and and then making him grumpy because she said mean things about Horus or whatever or didn't use his name correctly. Didn’t use the honorific.

Shannon:

Well I think the thing that really upset him and this is how I remember it, is she said, couldn't you have just not attacked them, and could you just have let them have their own religion or whatever?

Sarah:

It's like, why can't we just leave them alone or something?

Erik:

As often happens, it made him think and it made him mad.

Shannon:

Yeah. That is a perfect description of Loken. He think he mad.

Sarah:

I think therefore I mad?

Sarah:

Yeah, Well, and that's kind of why I made the joke earlier about this reminding me of Doom is it feels like this is as if everyone was the Doom Slayer, but unfortunately, the Doom Slayer had the ability to speak, and we had to hear him try to have thoughts. Except it's all of them. Yeah, I just found that interesting. But I also had a question. So this is supposed to be like a genetically advanced race of like super soldiers, but we believe in humors in this universe because they reference that a lot in this chapter and some in the first.

Walter:

This Oh yeah.

Shannon:

And there is something I looked up “phlegmatic”

Sarah:

Phlegmatic, choleric, sanguine,

Shannon:

Can you use phlegmatic in this way, and that was one of the things I did look up, and apparently you can use it that way.

Walter:

Oh, and the thing that this world loves to use is like old kind of having a gothicy vibe. Yeah. I mean, you'll see later their doctors are called Apothecaries, right? You know, because they want to have that. They, they, they want to have their you know, they want to eat this cake and then still have this cake of having this, like super science, but then also being like, Yeah, but do we really have the super science?

Erik:

But we're not steampunk.

Walter:

Right

Shannon:

There was a time when Walter and I were talking about eyeballs for some reason, and you said something about the aqueous humor. Yes. And I was like, Honey, we don’t use humors anymore.

Erik:

So we talked about, like, maybe the question, some of the questionable author's shipping, wordsmithing techniques. I've wanted to incorporate humors into a project for so long. And then reading this, I'm like, have I been wrong this whole time? I don't want to have a lot in common with Dan Abnett, I guess necessarily.

Sarah:

My question is more do they actually believe in humors in the same way like gothic or medieval folk said that like you have an imbalance of humors that causes you to be more phlegmatic or choleric or whatever? Or is it just like turns of phrase that they've carried over?

Walter:

I presume it's that that it’s that sort of thing because yes they have genetically enhanced super soldiers and everything. Now there is a big theme in Warhammer of people like having technology but not really understanding how it works. And like one dude knows what how everything operates, but even he has like an incomplete understanding of it going forward. But I think they just like the turn of phrase to make it sound all old timey and fancy.

Walter:

But yeah, so he, he gets a remembrancer makes him mad because makes him think and think is bad. And then we go right back to violence because these are Warhammer novels and you cannot go too many pages without, so to speak, chumming the waters with one of my other favorite phrases, loops of pink wet viscera. That's that's a good one. And you start to you start to pick up these little Warhammer-isms as you go on reading these books. Also, we get a lot of people shooting bolters and cutting with chainswords.

Sarah:

Chainswords yeah

Erik:

When in doubt, chainsword it

Shannon:

By chainswords do they mean like that sword in Pacific Rim like that?

Sarah:

Like a chainsaw sword?

Shannon:

Nooo. Oh, okay.

Sarah:

That's what I thought.

Walter:

It's just a chainsaw sword. Yeah. Which is nonsense. But I love everything about it.

Sarah:

And again, doom, right?

Shannon:

Oh, they have chainsaw swords in Doom?

Sarah:

Well, Doom has just a chainsaw.

Erik:

The anime Chainsaw Man is really popular right now, and since I just referenced it, you can hashtag that whenever you post this stuff you get and we can get more hits. So if you came here for Chainsaw Man that was it motherfucker.

Walter:

We got the thing, but we talked about chainswords which are way more exciting.

Shannon:

I don’t think we need to do anything because people are going to say “aww yes, Warhammer 40K I want to listen to this.”

Walter:

Well, we are hopin’

Walter:

But yeah, so we fight some bunch of and then we get to finally “See” in quotes, ha, the invisibles and how they're actually invisible. And I remember because there's a cute line “Loken does a funny” is in my notes when it's like when we got inside the palace what we found was the invisibles. Why were they called that she asked? Because we couldn't see them, he replied. And it's like, Ohhhhhh Loken

Erik:

Look now who's the joker?

Sarah:

I said, Sometimes this book is intentionally funny. In a way. And that was one of them that got me.

Walter:

And yeah him and his buddy Nero Vipus, which to Shannon’s chagrin we will use the entire name of every time. So Nero Vipers gets a hand chopped off much violence Space Marines are getting blasted left and right. They seem to have cool murder weapons. So just pages of bolter porn going on here because as they do, I do appreciate you seeing a little bit of the Space Marines cause like it's one of my classic Warhammer moments where he gets his hand mauled and he's like, I just cut it off with the chainsword and just kept on going because it was slowing me down because rawr we’re Space Marines.

Erik:

So I've been kind of focusing on what is maybe less than great in these books, but there are a lot of things I do like. And one of those I thought it was cool that their shielding technology also functioned as their weapon. I thought that was a cool.

Walter:

Oh yeah. That the the, the, the.

Erik:

It made some kind of logic like in world logic that.

Walter:

And funny as all of you start making theories about what this world is and all their cool technology and we'll never see them again, anyway none of these people matter and this planet is utterly unimportant later on in the series.

Erik:

Well they might play into my fanfiction.

Walter:

Gonna have a whole secondary thing on there and we get to meet. So this is the thing I'm enjoying reading about this is that coming at it from 40 K, there's a lot of names that start getting dropped in these that are very important people in the worlds of 40K in general. And then there's a bunch of names that are not and I'm interested to see how you all pick up on different characters and whether they're important or not, because I know ones that are like, this guy matters down the road and this guy I have never heard of until I read this book. So who's going to be the people that matter? Not so.

Walter:

Well, right as we get in there. Yeah. And then he finally he gets he makes his way to the quote unquote emperor. And we finally at the very, very end of the chapter, we finally get to meet Horus himself.

Sarah:

Big Horus

Walter:

Big Horus, not Little

Shannon:

Who, by the way, so beautiful.

Erik:

So beautiful. Guys, I couldn't believe it when I saw how big and beautiful he was.

Sarah:

So big, so pretty.

Walter:

They gotta play these games every time.

Shannon:

I want to know what the purpose. Just looking this image that I'm seeing here. You guys have this image?

Erik:

No, I don’t have illustrations.

Walter:

Oh, there's no illustrations in my book.

Shannon:

Oh, man. So there's here and if you want to pass it around.

Erik:

You should post this in the notes or whatever. For people

(laughter)

Sarah:

Oh he’s got a the wolf skin?

Shannon:

The wolf skin! Why does he have like the wolf skin?

Walter:

They’re the Luna Wolves!

Erik:

I was going to say, for the listeners to drive it home, I'm looking at a bald man in a mech suit, which this might actually literally just be a Lex Luthor image from a Superman comic book, but he has a wolf pelt draped over his large metal shoulders. Yeah, I got to drive home that it’s metal

Shannon:

His metal shoulders

Sarah:

That he doesn’t need it for warmth. It's purely decorative.

Erik:

It's cold steel. Anyone? Cam Jansen and cold steel. I'm here for both of those.

Walter:

I will also point out as we talk about beautiful men and they're all bald, I will point out, and again, I'm not encouraging to Google anything, but, If you happen to look at the Black Library author pages, 98% of these authors are bald.

Sarah:

Hashtag baldrights

Walter:

It starts becoming very clear why.

Shannon:

I Really want to have a shaved head at some point. Do you think I could become a 40 K author, if I shaved my head.

Walter:

Yes. I think that seems to be one of the main prerequisites for being a 40K author.

Sarah:

That makes me even madder about the cover art. These guys aren't bald.

Walter:

They're not.

Erik:

They have long, beautiful locks.

Walter:

They have long locks. I will give you that.

Sarah:

Who are these guys?

Walter:

But yeah Loken Loken manages to beat Ezekiel Abaddon there. He gets in a bit of a dick swinging contest with Ekaddon another another Marine that they don't seem to get along too well And then Horus shows up and saves the day and everyone bows and everyone says he's beautiful.

Erik:

Should we say that they had a butt swinging contest just in case they don’t have dicks.

Walter:

If we have or a bald head swinging contest as it goes, because who knows if they even swing dicks.

Walter:

Chapter Three Meet Kakashi He's pretty gross, Torgaddon tells a poop joke.

Shannon:

(correcting) Tor-god-on

Walter:

Thank you and atheism 101. Yeah so yes we are going to I have a lot to say on the chapter of baby's first atheism slash ethics course.

Erik:

Yeah, I have a lot to say about that as well.

Walter:

Yes. Well, good. Well, let's get into. But yeah, first we meet off and we're starting to talk to new, we're hearing all about remembrancers and we're getting into the the joys of the remembrancers.

Shannon:

Cause these are all remembrancers we're looking at two remembrancers when we get in here. Okay.

Walter:

And one just grossly hits on the other all the time. So.

Shannon:

Yeah. Everyday.

Erik:

But that's fun. Part of their fun. That's the fun way they interact with one another.

Sarah:

Sexual harassment is just a fun little quirk.

Shannon:

He's the point of view character here, right? So it's fun for him.

Erik:

It's definitely fun for him. Yeah. And she and she's totally into it. Well, as far as he knows.

Shannon:

Yeah.

Erik:

That was all sarcasm.

(all laugh)

Erik:

To make that really, really clear.

Sarah:

Canceled.

Shannon:

I guess this was actually one of my favorite pieces of the audiobook. And can I just play you guys one of my favorite bits of the audiobook? Are you guys okay with that?

Walter:

Let's do it.

Shannon:

Okay.

Narrator

And then there's the matter of sweat Karkasy said. He sat down on a lounger and put his feet up, settling the glass on his wide chest, he sipped again, grimacing and rested his head back. Karkasy was a tall man, generously upholstered in flesh. His garments were expensive and well-tailored to suit his bulk. His round face was framed by a shock of black hair. Keeler sighed and looked up from her work. “The what?” “The sweat. Dear Euphrati, the sweat? I have been observing the Astartes very big aren’t they? I mean to say very big in every measurement by which one might quantify a man.

Walter:

I think that's a point in the pro dicks column and a point in the everyone's gay column.

Sarah:

He said something about like is Keeler even attracted to men because she dresses like one and she's like, You dress like one are you?

Erik:

Yes, my dear girl, I am.

Shannon:

I guess I was so disappointed that in this future we still have gender norms and we still have calling people gay as an insult. And and he's using logic that makes zero sense there. Nobody says you're a woman who dresses like a man, you must be attracted to men.

Sarah:

Yes that’s classically how that goes.

Walter:

That’s how it do.

Shannon:

Like, oh, you know, as much as I dislike other characters in this book, he is so far my least likeable character.

Walter:

Well, good news coming up, spoiler alert.

Shannon:

I do not like him at all.

Walter:

I do also, I have written in my notes generously upholstered in flesh.

Sarah:

Yes, that was on my list of favorite imagery.

Walter:

A magical line.

Shannon:

And just so gross

Sarah:

And he's gross So it fits.

Walter:

We should get to at the beginning as much as we want to jump right to generously upholstered in flesh like we do, there's also a lot of background that they throw after they throw in the victory at Ullanor. And they're talking about how the Emperor went back to Terra. These are all things that are important to say. We're finding out that he's though he became the Warmaster as he does so, and that they're sending all these remembrancers out and all of them hate the remembrancers.

And we're getting a bunch of names like Primarch Russ is like, Give them guns, rawr we don't like Remembrancers yes.”

Shannon:

I feel like you're doing a good thing here. We need to maybe in case they're not reading the book. Say what's happening.

Walter:

Yes. And that the war council, there's like a civilian leadership on Terra that's kind of running the show now instead of the Emperor and the Primarchs

Shannon:

So did we install a regime? “We?” I'm not part of this.

Walter:

You're not in the, everyone’s in the Imperium.

Sarah:

He said we’re citizens.

Shannon:

We're saying I’m in the Imperium. Did we, like, go in and set up a fake democracy? But it's puppets from from this Terra to run the government or do we have.

Walter:

Oh no.

Shannon:

Our own people.

Walter:

And they get down later that like one of the generals from the fleet is like made to go be the governor of this planet. So they, they're, they're putting new people in charge. They're just taking over. They’re in the Imperium now.

Shannon:

Oh, you know I can’t remember all these details.

Walter:

And. We get to talk about Rogal Dorn in their yellow plate and the Imperial Fists.

(laughter)

And there we are with that. The other thing I love about these books is that a lot of these names were made up in the eighties and they are beholden to them now and there's nothing they can do about it. So they named a group the Imperial Fists and, language doing what it do. There's nothing they can do to take it back at this stage. So despite implications, but and it's not lost on the internet. But yeah, then we get to sad Karkasy being being sad about wine, sad about not having his advances met and being grumpy about the whole process.

Shannon:

Was he sad? Because I think he was into being rejected. That's the only thing that makes sense.

Sarah:

He's like, he just seems like a real he's like a troll in real time. Like, what can you do to get a rise out of this person?

Shannon:

Yes. He got his reinforcement, which was her rejection.

Sarah:

And he's just that slimy, nasty kind of guy that enjoys pissing people off.

Walter:

Mm hmm.

Shannon:

But here, here's the question. Is part of remembrancing sniffing people real hard?

Walter:

He's maybe that's he's a he’s a “smell-o-mancer”

Shannon:

It’s not just him! As soon as at the end of this chapter. Mersadie comes in then he's like, “Hey, what did Loken smell like?” And she's like, “I got that on lock”

Erik:

Oh, yeah, fresh oil or something.

Shannon:

Mmm, he smells like oils ahhh yes.

Walter:

Very sweet and clean.

Shannon:

Yeah, they are ALL sniffing these people.

Walter:

Well they’re remembrancers. They want all that. The people back home, they want all the details, want the sounds, they want sights, they want the smells.

Sarah:

Do they have Smell-o-Vision.

Erik:

I was gonna say this seems like they don't like we don't. Yeah, yeah, you got to describe that.

Walter:

So yeah everyone's got a got to get the thing.

Erik:

So when we introduced one another ourselves, we should have described how we smell.

Walter:

Right?

Erik:

To get in the spirit of the thing.

Sarah:

Everyone does a quick sniff.

Walter:

And do we smell like lapping powder and oil?

Erik:

Hippie deodorant that's what I smell like.

Sarah:

Same.

Shannon:

Lots of patchouli in here apparently.

Walter:

And then this chapter just goes on to be aggressively talking. We have Vipus and Loken. They're having their good old the scene that you have to have in everything where shirtless guys are fighting in cages, but having their dialog at the same time then Toraddon comes in and of course, tells Vipus in one of my favorite bits that he now that he's missing the hand, he's going to have to wipe his arse with the other hand and he laughs at his own quip. And it's like quip? Is that a, are we calling that a quip?

Shannon:

I think he's the only one laughing at his jokes 99% of the time.

Walter:

No one likes to interact with Torgaddon

Shannon:

Yeah, They're like, “Why did we let this guy in?” Cause he likes the moon I guess?

Sarah:

And it’s till death right? That’s looking forward, but they can’t get rid of him.

Shannon:

You can.

Walter:

But let's get to again, baby’s first introduction to atheism Kyril Sinderman, the finest iterator Loken has ever seen. Giving a whole speech, a long, long speech about why they fight for truth and justice and the imperial creed, all this good stuff.

Shannon:

So he was the worst kind of philosopher. He comes to a nonsensical conclusion at the end. You think, Oh yeah, this guy is saying stuff that makes sense, and then you get to the end and he's like, That we are right, They are wrong. Why? Not because we say so. Because we know so. And it's like how is that better?

Walter:

Yeah, because they KNOW so, they know they’re right.

Sarah:

He tries to say like, oh, it's not that might is right. Taking that very “yikes” idea. But we have the might because we're right. And it's like, that’s the same thing.

Walter:

It’s obviously the same thing.

Sarah:

They just repackaged it.

Shannon:

He's real good at repack. He's yeah, he's a real politicion.

Walter:

That's why he's good at being an iterator.

Sarah:

Are iterators basically professors or are they philosophers?

Walter:

They're propagandists.

Sarah:

Propagandists.

Walter:

Yeah.

Shannon:

So, a little bit of politics a little bit of this that.

Walter:

Because they even talk about like sometimes they put iterators in the crowds to be like, hey we’re clapping now everybody, we’re doing the thing.

Shannon:

I feel like that would be so obvious, you would have one iterator just slow clapping, you know, trying to start. And they're like, don't try to start a slow clap again.

Walter:

Like him awkwardly, like elbowing the guy next to him like, Ohhh, that's a good, you should clap at that.

Shannon:

And I feel they would all know immediately, if you're not a Terran from this planet.

Walter:

But I like to think it is the Imperium. So it's also very possible they're holding guns or whatever at the time. And it's like there's a big applause sign and like the guy with a gun standing behind it when it goes on. But but the big and it has a theme we're going to get back into is superstition. And oh, we have to cast off the shackles of superstition and Old Night and all of these things.

Shannon:

You know, what I do love about Loken is he's completely humorless.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Shannon:

I love that for him.

Walter:

Like what do you mean?

Shannon:

I love that whenever this guy is, like, laughing and making jokes about him getting into the boy’s club, and he's like, Psych. No, not psych. Wait, psych again.

Erik:

And Loken’s just like, if I wait long enough, he'll tire himself out.

Shannon:

Yeah, he's just not having it. And I love that. And I love that, like when he was with, like, the emperor, the old man, and he's like, Can you just not be a jerk to him? And we're just going to be respectful. And I do like that.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Walter:

Well, Loken, the nicest Space Marine, so. Well, that's why he's got to be in the Mournival to balance the humors. He's going to balance the humors of these Mournivals

Sarah:

Mournival was on my list of What the fuck is that? And then they did.

Shannon:

Eventually they did.

Sarah:

Explain what it was, but they talk about it a lot before they explain what it is, which is one of my pet peeves.

Shannon:

I thought it was, at first just from the word, I thought it was like a carnival, but for mourning someone.

Sarah:

Same! Yeah.

Sarah:

They brought it up in the context of Sejanus’ funeral. So I was like, is this like a festival.

Shannon:

Like a Day of the Dead sort of.

Sarah:

Or I was thinking more, is it like when you have a funeral and you hire mourners that like come after it to scream and cry to make someone look like they were more popular than they were.

Walter:

what Warhammer novels are in: 2006

Erik:

It's not just loops of pink viscera, right?

Walter:

Dan Abnett is trying to elevate the Warhammer novel oeuvre into a new level, like where it's like they're not just going to murder things. They're going to talk about why they murder things. And how they murder things. And should they murder things? Yes, they should murder things. But we're going to at least think about why we murder things all the time.

Sarah:

The note that I wrote for that whole section of pages was, are we the baddies? So it's like even your justification, like you call it a crusade, Like it's still very religious. Like they're like, we don't worship the emperor because we don't call it that.

Walter:

Right.

Shannon:

He literally refers to Horus as a god.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Walter:

Well we're going to, we're getting into the we're going to see this as a recurring theme going forward on we are we're not religious, buuuuuuuut.It's like, well, no, no, no. No. We don't worship anybody as a God. Buuuuuuutttt. Yes, it seems like, though, if you have a dude in charge and he's like, I don't like religion or or superstition or any of these beliefs, let's go on a crusade that's a weird it's a weird choice that words loaded.

Shannon:

It feels disingenuous.

Sarah:

Horus is literally named after a God. So like, right.

Shannon:

What?

Sarah:

Like Horus is an Egyptian god? Like the god of the sun? I could have made that up.

Walter:

He's like Isis’ kid?

Sarah:

Yeah, something like that.

Walter:

And that's also sort of stuck in with the we named this guy in the eighties before we made up a bunch of this stuff. And it's like, well he’s named Horus. Also, that might have just been, you know, he was just a kid growing up on Chthonia and, you know, Mom and Dad Horus were like Horus, that's a good name for a kid. We don't know what it means. So what are the odds of ancient Egyptian God memories still lasting until 30,000.

Walter:

But yeah, that sums up a lot, a lot of speaking and a lot of discussing that Loken will be the Naysmith and that his job is to sort of balance the rest of these jokers that are in the Mournival when we're going to get to a bunch of names but that leads us into chapter four.

Walter:

“Loken sort of apologizes” “Like a palm tree or a WHAT?” “Mournival Pool Party” Yes! We’re so! Most of my notes for chapter four, let's just go right to it. There's a lot of things that happened in chapter four, but I need to talk about this first thing. And because I have just.

Shannon:

The pool party?

Walter:

No, no, no. Before the pool party, I just have a note that's a whole page. And it says page 75 fetish switch!?

Sarah:

I wrote palm tree or all caps FETISH SWITCH, screaming, gagged. It was the funniest thing.

Walter:

It's that they're describing. So we're talking about Ezekiel Abaddon and and he has a topknot is his haircut that they're describing and they describe it as it looking like a palm tree or a fetish switch, which I have to assume is, Sarah correct me, is a cat of nine tails?

Sarah:

Yeah. Or it's like just like a yeah, it's a flogging, it’s a flogger.

Walter:

It’s a sexy whip

Sarah:

Yeah, it’s a sex whip.

Shannon:

Why are you assuming Sarah knows?

Walter:

Well Sarah wrote the, well Sarah wrote the note “fetish switch”

Sarah:

Yeah, but it's fair, I also know.

Walter:

All of the above.

Sarah:

We talked about my heaux aliases. Yeah, I don't know that I would equate a palm tree and a fetish switch as looking anywhere similar.

Walter:

A just baffling word choice I, and then, of course, my phone I'm like, looking up fetish switch and then of course I'm getting a lot of BDSM switch articles and it's like, well, that's not what I mean. Because no one calls, I've never heard that expression.

Sarah:

Usually, if you call it a switch, like I don’t want to get to deep into it.

Walter:

No we’re going deep.

Sarah:

Like a switch is usually just like a long, like flexible stick.

Erik:

I think like when you get a horse whip. An equine faced marine horse.

Shanon

Think about when you were a kid, in rural Kansas, and people would say “get a switch”

Sarah:

Go get a switch, so I can beat your ass. It's the same thing. Just you do kink about it. But like,but a palm tree, it sounds like more like a cat of nine tails, which is a it's a flogger. It's like it just is such an unnecessarily horny reference.

Walter:

It is a weirdly thirsty reference!

Sarah:

That doesn’t seem to actually describe what his hair looks like.

Shannon:

It only made you more confused about what it looks like.

Erik:

And you would assume that if Dan put this in there, it was because he was into that, and it was on his mind. And you expect him to be more of an authority.

Walter:

This is more into my theory that Ann Dabnet is out there writing Warhammer erotica somewhere on the internet.

Sarah:

Maybe in Britain, a fetish switch. It's a different thing. Maybe it's a British-ism.

Shannon:

Yeah, we can't really get a keep in the Britain of it all.

Walter:

Yeah, I couldn't find…

Sarah:

Hey freaks of the UK. Let us know.

Shannon:

But we know we have UK listeners.

Walter:

Henry, Henry, we know you are from the UK, and we know you are listening. So if you want to chime in on what a fetish switch is.

Sarah:

Did you just imply that Henry Cavill is a freak.

Walter:

I'm saying that. What a waste.

Shannon:

Oh, my God.

Shannon:

Okay, So can we move on from this? I know it's great.

Walter:

It's boggled me. Boggled me. Okay.

Sarah:

So onto the homoerotic frat boy initiation.

Shannon:

Yeah, but before we get to that, can I talk about something that happens in a lot of media that really bothers me is they'll say the character feels nothing about something, and then goes on to describe what having feelings feels like because, like, Loken felt no fear. He was not built to feel it, but he registered a trepidation and anticipation that made his heart his hearts? He has more than one heart?

Walter:

Ah, we are getting into that, yes.

Shannon:

It's weird. I didn't notice that the first time, but it reminds me of like, when I used to watch Dexter and they would be like, he feels nothing. And then him obviously having feelings for people.

Walter:

Or, you know, Equilibrium when when they're always like, we have no emotions. And Taye Diggs comes in just big ole smile, like, just chewing up the scenery. And it's like, I don't think Taye Diggs got the note on what this movie's about.

Sarah:

But yeah, great reference. I love that movie, right?

Walter:

I unironically love that movie. And maybe my love of Gun Fu informs a little bit about why I enjoy these books despite everything about.

Sarah:

Tune in next for our Equilibrium podcast.

Walter:

But yes, we're just going to do some deep dives, oh! Wouldn't Sean Bean be so good as one of these characters? I could see him in a giant suit of power armor.

Shannon:

I was going to say him first, whenever you said, who's going to play Sejanus? Because he always dies, you know.

Walter:

Oh, my God. Perfect.

Walter:

He is kind of grizzled. I don't know if he's as beautiful as he needs to be.

Shannon:

I'm sorry if Sean Bean, I know you're listening, but I didn't want to say that.

Erik:

Dejected Sean Bean turning his podcast off and sulking away.

Walter:

We can call Sean Bean handsome and not call him beautiful.

Shannon:

He’s very handsome. he's not maybe the most beautiful man, Right?

Walter:

If we're going to get that description. But. Sorry, Sean. You're very good looking, man. It's okay. Keep. You can continue listening, please.

Sarah:

I know, our opinion is of the utmost importance to you.

Walter:

Yes, Well, when he's hanging out with Henry and they're, you know, on their porch on a balmy playing London gamers playing Warhammers.

Shannon:

They can listen to this.

Walter:

But yes, and that's a part of that, just a callback. There's constantly talk about how Space Marines shall know no fear. And that's going to be brought up as a title of one of the books. It's a thing that's in there.

Shannon:

It's like how the Jedi aren't supposed to have feelings for people.

Walter:

Well, and they, and different authors go back and forth on like, what does it mean to not have fear? And it is very clumsily done all throughout the books on they have no fear. Buuuuuut. It's the thing that's brought up, like when books have to do it, where they have to say like they have no, no, they know no fear. But this guy is so scary that they kind of do fear, but they. That's an example. But then they overuse it and it's terrible.

Shannon:

I just ask you a question so I understand what's happening in this chapter. Are we on the Terra that they attacked or are we back on the what they think is the actual Terra?

Walter:

We are still on the place that they attacked.

Shannon:

Okay. So they say they have to do this ritual in front of a moon. That's not the same moon.

Walter:

Right.

Shannon:

And you know that joke from Parks and Recreation where Andy says to April, if you miss me, look up at the moon and know that I'm also looking at a moon, not the same moon, obviously that would be impossible or something like that.

Erik:

But it's real, in this case.

Shannon:

In this case it's not the same moon. Or is it?

Walter:

And it definitely leads to the question: What happens if some dude dies and they don't have a planet with a moon nearby? Like we can’t put a new guy in there.

Shannon:

This planet literally is Terra. They describe it as the third planet from the Sun? There's nine planet which back, wait a minute. When he wrote this, then they were actually only eight planets.

Walter:

In: 2006

Sarah:

Pluto is still in the game.

Walter:

I think so at that point.

Shannon:

All right. So. But it's not the moon.

Walter:

It is not THE moon.

Shannon:

Then what happens when there's not a moon or more multiple moons, can they do that?

Walter:

I think they just need a moon. But yeah what happens if they don't have access to a moon? Like what if they have some ship combat and nne of the dudes dies and they're like, Oh, we're just out in deep space. We can't.

Sarah:

If Erik's time warp theory is right, that it is the same moon just at a different time.

Erik:

I didn't think about them bringing a moon with them when I had that theory, but sure!

Walter:

But sure, they brought the moon.

Shannon:

They roped the moon.

Sarah:

Brought a whole solar system.

Walter:

Yeah. And so did anyone else think so so Mersadie goes to talk to Loken, and she's all like, “I'm so sorry that I offended you.” And he's like, “You didn't offend me. Would I have brought you here?” He she did offend him, though. Like he's gaslighting her real bad right there because he's like, “Why would I have called you here if I was offended?”

Shannon:

He’s gaslighting the shit out of her.

Walter:

It's like you're a nine foot tall killing machine. I think it's a little unfair for you to be all like, you thought I was mad just because I was giant and mad?

Erik:

I feel no fear and I feel no offense.

Walter:

Right? Both of those things.

Walter:

And I feel he got she got a real half assed apology. Like she apologizes to him and he's like, I was hard on you.

Shannon:

And then what did he do for her? What is she there to see? Because he didn't bring her to the Mournival induction

Walter:

Pool party

Shannon:

Pool party

Walter:

He's saying that later maybe

Erik:

He may

Walter:

He's going to maybe tell her some cool stuff that'll be the best rememberancing, and it’s going to remembrance best.

Erik:

And she said she's the first remembranceer to be on that soil. So I guess just that honor, even if she doesn't get to take make a report about it, she could just say.

Sarah:

I was here.

Erik:

I did that thing.

Walter:

Well, she's like making her like a she's like writing her book about her experiences landing on the planet and all that good stuff or whatever that she's writing on there.

Erik:

She gets to play cards that those bros, that's her, that's her reward. She learns two new card games.

Shannon:

Okay.

Walter:

We at least have to talk a little bit about Mournival pool party. And these are these are four names that we're going to need to know. So we got Loken. Loken's our guy who everyone loves. Loken. We got Torgaddon. Everyone's not favorite guy. We got little Horus Aximand.

Erik:

L’il Horus

Walter:

Little Horus, who is the shortest of them. But he’s squat and robust like a guard dog. His head was shaved, smooth and oiled because all the bald boys.

Sarah:

But Loken has hair though right?

Walter:

Yeah. Yeah, I presume. I don't know. Did he describe him with hair?

Sarah:

They say he has, like, silver hair at some point or something?

Walter:

So a gray fox?

Sarah:

That's. Yeah, that's why he's taking Sejanus’ place. He's the new flowing locks, fit like Fabio.

Walter:

And they point out that he's the only one of the Mournival that doesn't look like Horus.

Shannon:

That kind of plays into our idea that the guy on the cover is Loken.

Walter:

Is is supposed to be Loken? that is not a beautiful man.

Erik:

The guy on the right is yeah not beautiful, but he does kind of have silver locks.

Walter:

Yeah. God I hope not.

Sarah:

The disappointment

Walter:

And then Ezekyle Abaddon first captain of the of the Luna Wolves. Important guy. Those are our Mournival.

Shannon:

Is it Luna or Lunar?

Walter:

Luna Wolves. No R. And those are four. They're going to be important people going forward.

Sarah:

Is Abaddon a bad guy just because of his name?

Walter:

Abaddon is the first captain of the Luna Wolves, he’s obviously a cool dude.

Shannon:

What does “Abaddon” mean?

Sarah:

Abaddon is it’s another name for hell. I believe.

Walter:

It's an evil bible name.

Sarah:

Yeah, evil, or like a demon or something.

Shannon:

Ooh, OK you guys have to bring your Bible knowledge.

Walter:

Oh, and you get a lot of these names dropped.

Shannon:

My favorite part of this pool party is at the very end where Torgaddon whispers and draws him close.

Sarah:

That’s why I said homoerotic.

Shannon:

You’re one of us now Torgaddon whispered as he drew Loken close.

Erik:

(whispering) You’re one of us now.

All

(chanting) One of us! One of us!

Walter:

So I will also say so they point out very clearly that Loken is the only one of these in the Mournival that's not a Son of Horus. That doesn't look like Horus. How weird is that in all of their conversations? Like for Loken, he's just like, staring and like, imagine if I'm sitting at this table, this podcast studio, and if I was staring at like three mostly identical people? It would be fucking weird. And I imagine that every Mournival meeting.

Shannon:

Oh my gosh should we take on, because there’s four of us should we each take on whichever of these fits?

Walter:

You want to be a gibbous moon?

Shannon:

Well, yeah.

Walter:

Who's going to be the jokester that makes a bunch of poop jokes?

Shannon:

Erik

Erik:

I've never made a poop joke in my life. Literally never made a poop joke.

Sarah:

That's probably me. And I hate it.

Walter:

Somebody's got to be the poop joke person, that’s the way it has to be.

Erik:

I have to be the most dower and melancholy. Which one's melancholy?

Walter:

That's, I think that's Aximand your Little Horus.

Shannon:

Well, but you could be Loken, because you've got the flowing locks.

Erik:

I do have flowing locks now.

Shannon:

You have the longest hair of anybody in here.

Walter:

And which one of us looks the least like Horus? So that’s the real question.

Walter:

Finally, for today, at least Chapter five. Karkasy Shut up. Karkasy, For the love of God, shut up! Karkasy gets his ass kicked. This is the all Karkasy show all the time for chapter five. This is this is here. This is we've been I will point out, we're now like dozens of pages away from the last violence in this book. So Dan Abnett being being restrained again, this is them trying to move Warhammer novels up to a new level.

Sarah:

Cerebral

Walter:

So I hate Karkasy, but I do start to get a little bit more sympathetic to him in this chapter when he's talking about his like I bought 20 boxes of my notebook, special magic notebook paper that I wrote my best poems on. And now he's like worried that that, you know, he is once he's out of these notebooks, which he can't get anymore because they're gone.

Erik:

His muse will be gone, right? Yeah. I had to keep reminding myself that I disliked this character because I really liked this chapter.

Shannon:

I had to remind myself that maybe I didn't want him to die because I actually did. I really did. Like all of this? This love and like this kind of superstitious thinking I really hate and this this like romanticizing of paper, paper things over digital things. Yeah, you know that that's a pet peeve of mine.

Walter:

And this is a Shannon and I's. This is our our disagreements in life.

Erik:

we sit in a room with like a: 2000

Shannon:

Of Walter's. Yes. Yeah. None of these are mine except for maybe a few of those comics. But yeah, I'm digital all the way. Digital all the way baby!

Walter:

You're reading these books on your dataslate.

Shannon:

And so when I was reading this, I thought, Hmm, this guy seems like such an author insert character. And I was like, Oh, he's so “I love these special magical papers.” So I had a totally different reading and I am not surprised.

Erik:

I just can relate. And I don't know, maybe all of us here, we all do artsy things, so but I really related to the like “I've had a breakthrough. Look at all the stuff I wrote. It's so great.” And then like one drink later, you're like, “I'm a fraud. This is all terrible. Like, destroy this all I'll never make anything good again.”

Sarah:

Yeah. As I was writing, notes in my, like, fancy Moleskine journal thing, I was like, I feel like seen in a way I don't appreciate because I don't want to relate to this character at all. Because he’s awful.

Walter:

And so three out of four of us agree that reading sentences like “It offered a particularly pleasing Quarto chapbook of 50 leaves bound in a case of soft black kid with an Elasticated strap to keep it closed. I'm like, Oh, I want those. Those are those are delightful. And Shannon's like, “Use fucking One Note, you barbarian.”

Erik:

It is interesting and you're the one doing an audiobook.

Sarah:

That is interesting.

Shannon:

Actually I mean, that's not like a coincidence. It's, it's on brand.

Walter:

So we get a speech, we get a long, boring speech by an architect, but that's supposed to be a long, boring speech instead of like it's not Dan Abnett writing long boring speech in this case and we see our Titans coming back and he gets spooked by a titan staring at the thing.

Erik:

And it still never answered my question of were those bad guy titans that are still on the planet? Or are those good guy titans that we parked on the planet?

Shannon:

We are the baddies!

Walter:

They are imperial titans that are sitting there. This will also get to this is the thing that when I was reading it bothered me there is no consensus on how big a titan is and so they vary hilariously from author to author. They're 30 feet tall, they’re 100 feet tall, they’re 300 feet tall. These ones are huge.

Shannon:

I mean, didn't they say that like the like comparing a normal human to a Space Marine is the same as comparing, like, a Space Marine to a Titan?

Walter:

No, compared a Space Marine to a Primarch. The difference between Primarchs and Titans. Yes.

Sarah:

That was a question I did have. So Primarchs are even more superhuman than just a normal Space Marine.

Walter:

Yes. And there's not many. He only made a few Primarchs. And Horus is one of them. And Rogal Dorn who we mentioned is another one.

Shannon:

It has to do with their GENESEED.

Walter:

And all of the space Marines are descended from one of these Primarchs. Okay, So we will get a lot more into that as we meet Horus’ assorted brothers, because it's going to be a lot of brother talk.

Sarah:

Writing down “Horus is daddy” Gotcha.

Shannon:

Can I just say that I feel like Peter Egan Momus sounds like they just gave up on making names he and just watched Ghostbusters.

Walter:

But Karkasy wanders around town he's getting real sad drunk. He's he's getting we’re driving more into the theme of why did we have to blow up all this stuff? These people were just minding their own business, and now I'm grumpy about it. He meets a It's weird. Everyone on this planet seems to speak the same language as they do, but like, kind of accented, except for this old lady that runs a bar that just seems like weird. Like I have like I don't have theories exactly, but it's like, I don't know what's with this old lady. I mean, is she even the person that runs the bar? It's like she's just a silent woman behind the bar and.

Shannon:

I think she does run the bar. I think she just thinks, Get out of here.

Walter:

Yeah, but like, at any time is like somebody else, like, awkwardly trying to get a drink while Karkasy is standing there, like dumping money on the counter.

Shannon:

I am Imagining that absolutely everybody in the bar is staring at this interaction the entire time. And nobody is drinking. They're just watching silently.

Walter:

Watching this weird drunk guy stagger in and throw money on the counter.

Sarah:

Also, Is he drinking, taking bets, absinthe or Jager? Because they said it's licorice tasting and it's dark.

Walter:

Oh, a pretentious art book chapbook guy. Oh, it's absinthe, I mean, it would have to be, right? So that's why he loves it so much.

Shannon:

Is it oily?

Sarah:

I don't know if it absinthe is, it made me think of Jagermeister.

Erik:

The oily makes me think of Jagermeister. But I think you're right that it's probably inspired by it's space Absinthe. So it's oily.

Walter:

Well, yes, but the scene is funnier if we just imagine he's doing Jager bombs. Just at the counter knocking them back.

Shannon:

So as you guys know I don't drink alcohol. But I have to say, this sounded like the least inviting alcoholic drink I have ever heard.

Sarah:

Yes, it sounded gross.

Shannon:

It had, like, an anise flavor to it, which I also hate. And it's oily. I've never wanted to drink anything oily. Maybe melted butter.

Walter:

Back to it so Karkasy just staggers around town writing little bits of poems and little bits of poems being mad at the world and everything else, getting stared at by locals, etc.. We also get to and I think this is an important thing to bring up. We've talked about it before. He talks about the because he finds a church, a temple, he finds a church. And this is a big deal because there's no churches anymore on there. And we talk a little bit about the Lectitio Divinitatus that that there's some people that might be worshiping the Emperor as a god and that the Emperor’s said, no, no, no, he's not a God. But some folks may maybe thinking that he is and that that's spoiler alert going to be a big deal going down the road. And he has another baby's first atheism moment like, oh, we've cast off religion, but now we have to find something to believe in because that's what we do. And then we're getting a big contrast between Sinderman being like we put faith in the Imperium in our quest and our crusade and the truth. And he's like, Oh, but we're going to put just faith in this big, super fancy guy who leads the Imperium. So, yeah, staggering around doing some things, taking notes and then runs into a bunch of soldiers and keeps saying words at them and yells at them a bunch.

Sarah:

Immediately pisses them off.

Walter:

Just a ton. And it's weird to be like, I mean, I guess getting angry, but like, he's just talking to this officer just out of nowhere one of these soldiers is like, we beat the shit out of this guy now, and the officer can't stop them. Like he was trying to pull all of his soldiers off of them as they just kick just eight shades of dog shit out of Karkasy.

To when he's no longer pontificating. Or breathing.

Erik:

The whole chapter I was afraid that some local was going to do that to him. And then it ended up being his side.

Walter:

His own guys

Erik:

The irony, the rich rich irony.

Walter:

Yeah, a little some heavy handed foreshadowing, perhaps in a lot of what's going on with the Imperium and such? It actually and this is a part that I don't want to get into too deeply because y'all don't know what a lot of these things mean. But there are so many gratuitously 40K references that they make in here that are going to sail all over y'all's heads. But they are aggressive in the first couple of chapters about like oh and then this guy, it looked kind of like this. “WINK” And we're like, Oh, that's a that's a thing from later on. So there are 900 references you all have missed going forward into the books. And Dan Abnett is not even remotely subtle about it.

Sarah:

Would you say there are 40K references?

Walter:

There are maybe: 40000

Erik:

It's a good question because at the beginning of the reading, I thought the whole book was going to be leading to Horus killing the Emperor. And then that happened in like chapter two. So now I do not have a guess.

Sarah:

Well, with the heavy handed foreshadowing you were mentioning, I feel like someone is going to set himself up as like a god emperor. I don't know if it's the current emperor, if someone's going to like, usurp the current emperor and set themselves up as a God. I feel like Horus is really primed in that position because everyone loves him and already kind of worships him as a god.

Walter:

And the top of the top of the book does say.

Sarah:

Yeah, it's the Horus Heresy right?

Erik:

Oh, that’s a pretty big clue isn’t it?

Sarah:

And I'm still hung up on the deceived thing about who is being deceived by whom and how. And it just struck me because I think they mentioned that the Emperor kind of withdrew like and lets this council run things and named Horus Warmaster. And I think I wrote a note of like, when's the last time anyone's talked to the Emperor? Is he still running things?

Erik:

That's good point.

Sarah:

Was any of this his idea like that kind of thing?

Walter:

Did he choose a Warmaster?

Sarah:

Yes.

Shannon:

Does he look like Henry Cavill?

Walter:

We can only hope. All right, then. Let's all talk about. So we we answered some questions. That's going. But I know some of you have lists of things. So are there anything that you feel context would help for listeners, phrases, things, bits that are aggressively not being explained?

Shannon:

I feel like we've kind of done that throughout.

Sarah:

What is Old Night?

Shannon:

Oh, there we go Old Night

Walter:

So that's the period. So like there was sort of in the history of 40K and they get into this more, there was like awesome humanity time and everything was great. The age of technology, then a bunch of shitty things happened for a long time and that's Old Night. And Old Night has very recently ended and now we're going into this like great crusade era.

Shannon:

So it's kind of like the

Erik:

The Depression

Shannon:

I was going to say like a medieval times.

Erik:

Dark ages.

Shannon:

Yeah. Yeah. Did the Renaissance come before that? I don't know history.

Walter:

Renaissance is after the Dark Ages.

Erik:

RenAIssance speaking of second syllables.

Shannon:

I don’t know how to do this.

Erik:

I’m just being a dick, don’t worry about it.

Walter:

We've also talked about people have their favorite nonsense 40Kism So we talked about we I mean wet loops of viscera. I was a big obviously a big fan of.

Erik:

I don't know if this is quite an ism, but I liked the “the Emperor knows his name” when someone dies, kind of his name was Robert Paulson.

Walter:

Oh, oh, now this is the new theory going to be this whole thing's a Fight Club situation. Is there even Loken..

Erik:

Oh, there’s no characters, we have to decide which one character whole book is.

Walter:

That's good. And of course, obviously we were big fans of “the Hand is upon us.” Or “the hand is upon me.” Yes. And for anyone who didn't get it, that's the ship is called the Hand of Vengeance or the Spirit of Vengeance is the name.

Erik:

Oh, I didn't. I 100% did not get that.

Walter:

The Spirit of Vengeance is Horus’ Fancy Ship. And so that's when it's the hand of the ship. It's vengeance. And it's clumsy. Yeah, but here we are.

Sarah:

And it's so funny because they make a point to explain that and then don't explain so many things. So yes, I'm guessing that that's because that's new to this book and not just

Walter:

That's more of a thing in there. And, and one for me that's a 40K ism that keeps coming up and things and it has come up for me for again better than 20 years at this point I do not know what an auto reactive shoulder pad is. They constantly call these damn shoulder pads auto reactive. I do not know what that means. I don't know what that supposed to be. I don't know what they're auto reacting to.

Erik:

Whatever it is, it requires a wolf pelt to be draped over it.

Walter:

And it justifies on the on the power armor these enormous shoulder pads, I suppose. And you can justify them being so hilariously big by them being auto reactive.

Erik:

Is it a coincidence that Final Fantasy 3/6 has to do with an empire and there's people running around in mech suits.

Walter:

I don't know.

Erik:

Is the emperor in this book called Gestahl?

Walter:

No.

Erik:

Okay, damn it, There goes my fan theory.

Walter:

Got to go Replay episode or a Final Fantasy 3. Well, for next episode, we're going to be reading chapters six through ten and we're going to finish part one, The Deceived, and that goes through page 203. So those of you reading at home. Be excited to tear through that. We're going to see what happens with the handsomest boy. We're going to see what happens.

Shannon:

Wait a minute, Sejanus is the handsomest boy.

Walter:

Yes. So Horus is really the handsomest boy, though, okay? I mean, deeply. Sejanus is only so handsome because he looks like, you know, looks like Horus. In the meantime, everyone, enjoy your 40 K's. Read your books. Henry. I imagine you're still listening at this point. How are those Custodes coming along? They're all getting all painted up. Anyway, let us know. On Zero to 40K

Erik:

(singing)

Walter knew Warhammer real well,

So he seized every opportunity to tell

Anyone he could about the books

But no one ever gave them a second look.

So he thought, “Hey, I’ll start a podcast!”

And he gathered around him together at last

Three friends willing to jump into the fray

And go from zero to forty K!

Shannon:

Zero to 40K was created our Warmaster Walter Stewart.

Production by Administrix Shannon Tierney

Music by Erik Strangefellow

Special thanks to Sarah Fettke

Check out everything we are up to at Zero to Four Zero K dot com

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