We are in person at the 2024 Animal Forensic Conference in Gainesville, Florida! Dr. G will be interviewing several of the speakers to give our audience a bit of the knowledge gained through the presentations. We will be releasing each interview individually to allow our listeners to find topics of interest.

In this episode, Forensic Photographer Heidi Nichols from the Miami Dade County Medical Examiner's Department shares information on the use of pictures to document a crime scene and the evidence recovered.

We would also like to invite our listeners involved in animal cruelty investigations to visit and join the International Society for Animal Forensic Sciences https://isafs.org/

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Our next guest is Heidi Nichols from the Miami Dade County

2

Medical Examiner Department.

3

Welcome to The Junction and

thank you for being here.

4

Thank you.

5

Excited.

6

So can you first start by telling us

your background and how it relates

7

to the field of veterinary forensics?

8

Heidi Nichols: Yeah, so I am a forensic

photographer for the medical examiners

9

and how it relates is, you know, forensic

photography is, No matter whether it's

10

humans or a crime scene or any sort of

evidence, it relates also with animals.

11

We're doing the same thing, whether we're

doing necropsies or crime scenes or search

12

warrants of animal welfare, uh, cases.

13

DrG: So what is the importance

of forensic photography, both as

14

it relates to the crime scene and

then, like, evidence photography?

15

Heidi Nichols: So it documents, it

visually documents what may change later.

16

Um, what, uh, we might not be

able to see to the naked eye.

17

We can use different alternate light

sources to be able to see things.

18

Macro lenses to be able to enhance

things a little bit better.

19

Um, so whether it be at a crime

scene or in an autopsy suite or a

20

necropsy suite, we want to preserve

the evidence and make it an accurate

21

representation of what we're seeing.

22

Um, so we want to make sure that

we are using the correct, uh,

23

equipment, the correct, um, lighting,

the correct exposure to be able

24

to capture those images correctly.

25

DrG: So I love pictures.

26

I take pictures of everything,

like my poor kid, right?

27

Like I'll take 10, 000 pictures

of everything, but I'm the same

28

way when I go to a crime scene.

29

So is there such a thing as

having too many pictures or is it

30

worse to have too few pictures?

31

Heidi Nichols: Oh gosh, I think

it's far worse to have too few.

32

Um, I, I, we used to have an

expression, film is cheap.

33

Um, and that was when film wasn't cheap.

34

Um, because, you know, you, Now, I would

say you also don't want to just take

35

random things of, you know, and this

is where knowing your equipment and

36

making sure, like, that you are taking

a properly exposed image, so if it takes

37

you 20 photos, to get that properly

good exposed photo, I'd say, you know,

38

practice a little bit more, um, but

definitely, I don't think you can go

39

wrong with having too many photos in the

sense of having too little photos, yeah.

40

DrG: One of the things that I have that

has been a little bit of an issue has been

41

some animal cruelty investigators have

been taking video in lieu of photographs.

42

So what would be the problem with that?

43

Heidi Nichols: The problem is that

there's not great quality if you try

44

to pull those stills off of a video.

45

So if you want to try to do any sort

of enhancements of, um, evidence

46

that's there, whether it be, um,

classification of evidence or, um,

47

analyzing any of those, you don't

have the same quality from the video

48

than you do from the still image.

49

DrG: One of the errors that I

personally committed when I started

50

doing photography was that I use my

smartphone for everything, right?

51

Because it was so convenient.

52

I had it there.

53

I could take pictures and everything,

but why is that not a good idea?

54

Heidi Nichols: It's not that, I mean, and

especially the, the smartphones have come

55

a long way, but if it's ever going to

go to court, they could confiscate your

56

cell phone, they, you know, and that's.

57

That's everything, your self,

your, your personal photos,

58

your text messages, your emails.

59

So um, if you're using your cell phone

or the, your jurisdiction is giving,

60

you know, cause I know in some places

patrol, they have cell phones, they

61

have little point and shoots, but

it's, it's dedicated just for that.

62

That's the only thing it's being used for.

63

It's not your personal

phone and your cell phone.

64

Um, and again, like that's great for

just maybe, documentation of something.

65

But again, if you're taking a photo

of, uh, to be analyzed, whether

66

it be a paw impression, a foot

impressions, blood spatter, any of

67

that, that's going to be analyzed.

68

Um, you're just not going

to have the quality.

69

Yeah.

70

DrG: So what kind of cameras should

investigators be looking at considering

71

that there are some places that do

not have a huge budget and then there

72

are others that have unlimited budget.

73

Heidi Nichols: Yeah.

74

So, I mean, you, You're the di the

price of digital s SLRs and the

75

mirrorless cameras have come way down.

76

So I would say invest in a, in a good,

um, digital SLR or a mirrorless camera.

77

Uh, you don't have to

spend a ton of money.

78

I mean, a couple hundred dollars would

be able to get you, um, a, a good.

79

interchangeable lens camera.

80

There are really great point and

shoot cameras as well that have

81

the manual override, which allows

you to change your exposure.

82

So your F stops, your shutter speeds, your

ISOs, you can have control over those.

83

So it's just a matter of looking

at them, comparing them and, and,

84

and then practicing with them.

85

Yeah.

86

DrG: Now I know that I, I personally

was afraid of all of the different

87

manipulations that you can do in a camera,

so it's like set it on automatic and go.

88

But how, how difficult is it to learn

and what's the benefits of using

89

the manual settings on the cameras?

90

Heidi Nichols: Yeah, so it's really, I,

I always kind of say, well you're kind

91

of setting it and forgetting it anyway.

92

So if you're using a flash,

like do you use a flash?

93

I do, I try, yeah.

94

Okay, perfect.

95

Perfect.

96

So then, essentially, when you

photograph in manual mode, is

97

you set your shutter speed to the

fastest to what your camera syncs at.

98

So what do you use, Nikon or Canon?

99

I believe it's a Canon.

100

Okay, so Canon, I think it might be

the ISO, I mean the shutter speed,

101

the fastest sync speed is 200.

102

So you just set your shutter speed to 200.

103

Um, if you're mostly, um,

in darker environments, you

104

might set your ISO to 400.

105

Those are two things that

you're leaving alone.

106

And then you have your aperture

setting of your lens at F8, F11.

107

Those are gonna give you great photos.

108

And I mean, and it's a manual setting.

109

You've control, you have control over it.

110

Now you can always make

changes if it looks too dark.

111

You can open up, slow down your shutter

speed, increase your ISO if you need to.

112

So it, it really isn't as scary

once you sort of understand,

113

uh, the components of it.

114

DrG: Um, I took the Forensic Science

Master's degree from University of

115

Florida, so a lot of it had to do with,

like, the crime scene investigation

116

and the importance of photography and

that kind of stuff, and it teaches

117

you about, um, kind of creating

a story with your photographs.

118

But I have received pictures from

animal control officers that you

119

have no idea what's going on.

120

So what, what are the issues

with like these chaotic scenes?

121

Heidi Nichols: Yeah, I just think

that photography isn't taught

122

nearly as much as it needs to be.

123

I think that now that the world is

digital, we all carry phones or we

124

all carry cameras in our pockets.

125

We all like kind of think of ourselves

as photographers and we just sort of have

126

to strip back to some of those basics.

127

and the basics of really understanding

exposure, and then again, just

128

working in a systematic manner.

129

You have to remember, uh, that.

130

people are looking at your

photos that were not there.

131

And we may get so ingrained and like,

we know this scene so well because

132

we're working this scene, but you have

to step back and realize like, okay, if

133

I give these photos to somebody, like,

are they going to know where we are?

134

You know, I know when I'm looking at

the photo or I know that if I'm taking

135

the photo where I am on the animal,

but again, if it's not a wide enough

136

orientation or there's no overall

than somebody looking at the photo,

137

they may have no idea where you are.

138

DrG: So is there any benefit of

taking photography lessons or what

139

resources are there available for

individuals that are taking crime scene

140

photography or evidence photography?

141

Heidi Nichols: Yeah.

142

Oh my gosh.

143

There are so many different types

of, um, crime scene photo or in basic

144

photography classes that are out there.

145

Um, I mean, you can just Google forensic

photography classes and a lot of

146

different agencies, tri tech forensics.

147

Um, uh, gosh, there's so many.

148

So many different ones that offer a lot of

different photography courses and classes.

149

And then practice.

150

I would say just practice.

151

Practice using your equipment, whether

you're photographing your pets,

152

your children, vacations, whatever.

153

The more you practice with

it, the better you'll be.

154

And then, uh, also just practice.

155

Just slow it down mentally when you're

at a crime scene and just say, okay,

156

let me work on my overalls and then

my orientation and then my close up

157

with and without a ruler and just sort

of become like second nature to you.

158

Just overall orientation, close up.

159

DrG: Well, thank you so much for

sharing your knowledge and thank

160

you for everything that you do.

161

Thank you.

162

And thank you for being here.

163

Heidi Nichols: Oh, thank you.