In this special bonus episode of Mobility Redefined, recorded live at the UITP Global Public Transport Summit in Hamburg 2025, host Kaan Yildizgöz moderates a roundtable with some of the sector’s most influential leaders. The discussion features Alexandra Reinagl (Wiener Linien, Vienna), Jonida Halili (Deputy Mayor, Tirana), Maria Albuquerque (Carris, Lisbon), and Andy Lord (Transport for London).

Whether you're planning future infrastructure, rethinking your bus contract model, or looking to harness technology to improve operations, this episode delivers practical perspectives and proven ideas from cities leading the way.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:46 Panellist Introductions

01:31 Vienna's Mobility Vision

04:49 Adapting to Changing Travel Patterns in Lisbon

09:31 Sustainable Mobility in Tirana

14:32 London's Clean Air Initiatives

18:24 Partnerships in Public Transport

21:48 Tirana's BRT Project

25:00 Network Restructuring in Lisbon

27:17 Bus Franchise Contracts in London

31:59 Technology and Data in Public Transport

40:17 Conclusion and Closing Remarks

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Mobility Redefined is brought to you by Modaxo https://www.modaxo.com

Host: Dr. Kaan Yildizgoz

Producer: Mike Cartmel

Executive Producer: Darren Turpin

Special thanks to:

Brand design: Tina Olagundoye

Digital Media: Belén Iturrioz Campo

Marketing content and Mobility Redefined newsletter: Mike Cartmel

If you have a question or comment, email us at mike.cartmel@modaxo.com

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent (“Modaxo”). This production belongs to Modaxo, and may contain information that may be subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information, and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.

[00:00:04] Kaan: Thank you for listening to Mobility Redefined, brought to you by Modaxo. For more insights and information, please visit mobilityredefined. com. That is Mobility Redefined. com.

[00:00:38] Kaan Yildizgoz: I'm very honored to moderate this session. My name is Kaan Yildizgoz. I am host of Mobility Defined and executive Director at Modaxo.

[00:00:48] Kaan Yildizgoz: So I'm joined by great panelists today. This afternoon, Alexandra Reinagl, CEO of,Vienna Linien. I have Jonida Halili, deputy Mayor of Tirana, Albania. I [00:01:00] have Maria Albuquerque, who is the Vice President of Carris, Lisbon, Portugal, and Mr.

[00:01:25] Kaan Yildizgoz: So let's start. And I think that I can start with Alexandra, who is just sitting, next to me.

[00:01:31] Kaan Yildizgoz: And it's a common entry question for me because. Now the urbanization is increasing. There's a rising demand for mobility, how you are coping with this in Vienna, and how you are planning the future with considering your freedom of mobility vision as well. Alexandra?

[00:01:52] Alexandra Reinagl: Growth in the public transport, network has more meanings. to me it means, and that's, obvious [00:02:00] expansion. I will come to that, back later. But it also means, modernization, refreshing, upgrading the in existing infrastructure as we shall not forget that there is.

[00:02:36] Alexandra Reinagl: The other one is, we have to increase. Or to foster our, the share of public transport. So there are, some meanings of growth. There is, the frame and, between the first name meanings, it'll be now necessary to prioritize. So where should I, put my money in and, not to forget that I am, working with taxpayers money.

[00:03:28] Alexandra Reinagl: I'm a little bit, I would say reserved, towards all these technologies and pilot projects as I can't really afford them. So I'm, I have, the trust of a huge number of customers. It's more than 1.2 million in Vienna, for example, subscriptions. And I have to keep my promises,towards them.

[00:04:07] Alexandra Reinagl: So if there is a new. Area of housing, a new city, area or major urban developments. It's always in a very tight coordination between the planning departments, the, the construction, the zoning departments and the public transport operators. That goes always hand in hand. And this is, all what we are doing now.

[00:04:39] Kaan Yildizgoz: Thank you, Alexandra. We were talking about how to respond to the rising demand, but also it's important to discuss about how to respond to the changing demand.

[00:04:49] Kaan Yildizgoz: So I want to ask here, Maria, actually this question, because after COVID-19, we are seeing that the travel patterns expectations are changing, especially with the deployment of more and more technology in the mobility. [00:05:00] How is Carris adapting to these changing habits in Lisbon?

[00:05:06] Maria Albuquerque: First. Many thanks for the invitation to participate in this. Prestigious panel of speakers. Thank you very much. Yeah. Actually, today I, it's not only the patterns, it's the type and lifestyle of people who use public transport. We see that most, or at least a big part of our customers, and you.

[00:05:55] Maria Albuquerque: We were used to wait for the bus and wait. 10, 15 [00:06:00] minutes and you, we would know if it's coming or not. And today is not the same thing. We have to, we want to use all our time window and our customers, are not available to wait. so in terms of our of business models for mobility, we saw a huge evolution that tech,Made possible. we were, at least in Portugal, I don't know if it was the case for you, but we were more than 20 years trying to make shared services for mobility. And we were able to do that only when technology came to our hands through our smartphones. And after that, it was possible. And it's an infinite world of possibilities.

[00:07:21] Maria Albuquerque: so no matter how much we plan, we know that our operation will be influenced by external factors. So that's why. Improving our digital presence to our clients is so important, for them. And how can we do that? And how Carris do that. I would,summarize in three dimensions. One is accessibility, make transport more easily accessible.

[00:08:16] Maria Albuquerque: The customers to make better use of the time while they are, not on board. So always we did this mindset of reducing the anxiety of our customers and the last one, but not the least. Because to me, and some people of mine is here and they always know that I really stress, I'm looking to Louis, who is responsible for the displays in stops with a real time information of times and they know that to me, providing.

[00:09:13] Maria Albuquerque: That's a summary of what we are doing to adapt to this new way of moving in the city. I think

[00:09:31] Sustainable Mobility in Tirana

[00:09:45] Jonida Halili: hello everyone. Thank you for coming. Thank you very much, Kaan, for having me here.

[00:10:19] Jonida Halili: one point of view, let's say. So for us, walking and cycling, were from the very beginning, political statements about how, we wanted our city to be, people, created the cities just to stay in communities and to interact with, each other. And, to go. the more people interact with each other, the more they share their spaces, the more they need the means to communicate.

[00:11:10] Jonida Halili: So we have to treat with, too much care, each one of them, just to offer to our citizens, a solution that, gives, Not only the solution of transportation, but the,the lifestyle we need to provide for them, a healthy, a sustainable and fair lifestyle. Because this is, about what we, we like to call street democracy.

[00:12:04] Jonida Halili: actually, in Tirana, the facts show that, 51% of the, of the distance are made, or, by walking and only 25% by cars. And so we have to give the right of this 51% of the population to use, decently and fairly and, with dignity, the space they need. we started everything with cleaning the public spaces.

[00:12:48] Jonida Halili: And it used to be about 40 kilometers square of, round roundabout, asphalt and, cars. And, now it is the biggest public [00:13:00] space in Tirana where, Children can play freely and people can gather for any reason, mostly leisure. we continued with sidewalks and with bike lanes, of course, which were totally in existence 10 years ago.

[00:13:37] Jonida Halili: So we have, launched two schools for kids for,learning, rules of, safe cycling, but also of road traffic. in general, in, we have two schools for, yeah, very young kids and for a little bit, more older kids. And we have, also launched the Streets for, school project, which, [00:14:00] Is changing the infrastructure, behind the schools to make the drop offs and pickups, of the children more safer and, more, comfortable even for the children, even for the parents or caregivers. So I, you would say that, this is, What we are aiming, a city for people, not a city for cars.

[00:14:21] Kaan Yildizgoz: Thank you so much. Jonida , you mentioned an interesting word called street democracy, and some people are claiming that a part of street democracy is charging private cars.

[00:14:35] Kaan Yildizgoz: So now I look to Andy on this one because it's, the largest ultra low emission zone is in London, and also congestion charging scheme is in London.

[00:14:47] Andy Lord: thank you Kaan. Good afternoon thank you for the opportunity to join, colleagues this afternoon.

[00:15:13] Andy Lord: It was around delivering the health benefits to our city, congestion charging first introduced to reduced congestion in, Inner London being extremely, successful, that was expanded to the low emission zone. which was, to improve air quality because the mayor has a very simple view, which is, which I fully support, which is we do not accept dirty drinking water.

[00:16:02] Andy Lord: We have, we launched a huge consultation, that everybody in London was able to participate in, which, spelled out the benefits that we believe the Zone would deliver. it allows anybody who has a vehicle that's built to the latest European standards to drive freely. So the only people who get charged are those who have vehicles that are non-compliant.

[00:16:48] Andy Lord: and, charities, and that was extremely successful. So it was the largest consultation transport for London has ever undertaken. Huge amount of engagement, a lot of opposition, [00:17:00] particularly political opposition for the mayor, who I have to say, was unbelievable in terms of his steadfast position on this.

[00:17:27] Andy Lord: And we have had a benefit in terms of it has reduced the amount of congestion in outer London, not significantly, but a small amount. And of course, it has brought additional revenue into transport for London, which we then reinvest in the. Public transport network. But to be really clear, it was not done for money making purposes.

[00:18:06] Kaan Yildizgoz: Great leadership and commitment from the political level for such initiatives. And I know that such kind of initiatives or any major projects in transport, it needs very strong partnership. So there is important role in terms of the partnership within authorities, operators, and the private sector.

[00:18:29] Kaan Yildizgoz: And how do you see this partnership and its role in realizing your vision of, freedom of mobility?

[00:18:33] Alexandra Reinagl: freedom of mobility is a kind of a promise, which we give, not our passengers, but also our decision makers and our owners. And that means living and moving in the city without owning a private car. So we are professionals, in terms of, operating trams, buses, and underground and maybe trolley, buses, and, There is on the other hand, a market, [00:19:00] which is, which consists of professionals who, know to operate and run shared services or DRT for example. So to put that together, we decided not to do everything on our own, but to, come or get into, corporations. We see ourselves, as I said, not, just a public transport operator, but as a integrator, as a platform where all these, different services areadditive services to the classical, modes and, Such as I said, car sharing and other flexible services. we work to integrate all these services, both physically and digitally, across the city. And this means strong corporations on the same level with the private markets. So as I said, we just, coordinate them and we invite them. they have to do it.

[00:20:20] Alexandra Reinagl: Another aspect is the early involvement of the industry and our suppliers before entering a collaboration. we can only achieve our goals. Effectively and efficiently, if we express openly and transparently our requirements and, the impacts, on both sides, and that's, that has an impact or, implication on the cost side.

[00:21:07] Alexandra Reinagl: Before the order is placed. then the customer, for example, we as the operators can consider our wishes again, and that could perhaps lead. I'm convinced that this is the case to more standardized products and this, um, turnoff helps not only the operators in getting better prices, but I would say also, the industry in understanding what the customers, need.

[00:21:36] Kaan Yildizgoz: Thank you. Thank you so much, Alexandra. Since we talk about partnerships, also, there is a big project now coming in Tirana that you are doing in partnership with the different international agencies that you are building A BRT in, in Tirana.

[00:21:48] Kaan Yildizgoz: Jonida, can you tell us some, some few insights about this BRT project coming in Tirana.

[00:22:45] Jonida Halili: And, it's Specific project, that,in, includes, dedicated, bus lanes and it's fully with electric buses in, to what,London has. Is now gone [00:23:00] in other levels. We are trying to, to start and to put it in place for the future, to go to the, electric vehicle, use as much as possible.

[00:23:35] Jonida Halili: the BRT project is,we choose, To, we decided to, for our city, it will, bring, at least,the. We need the double,of the use from the customers with, the BRT with the BRT line,we aim to go from, 9,000 to 20,000, passenger per hour. We, aim to faster [00:24:00] the time of, of the lines from,nine kilometers per hour to 20 kilometers per hour. And, the BRT is expected to increase the average speed of the buses. And it'll, double the number of the users.Most of the city will go on public, transport. If we increase the quality of the public transport, we expect the carriers to, to drop and to have,some good,expectation even in, environment, perspective.

[00:24:44] Kaan Yildizgoz: Thank you. Thank you so much. it's great that we are looking forward to see the BRT in Triana that, to have this opportunity to ride because, I am from Istanbul.

[00:25:00] Network Restructuring in Lisbon

[00:25:13] Kaan Yildizgoz: And I know Maria, you are working a lot on this in Lisbon. so what was achieved so far in terms of network restructuring based on the data and the technology? I.

[00:25:39] Maria Albuquerque: Our aim is not. To double, unfortunately, to double the demand. But that's a very good, objective. Congratulations on that project. but we are starting, a redesign project of our network, of our bus and tram network. it's a whole redesign. Of the Bus and tram network in the [00:26:00] city of Lisbon, the aim is to adapt the network to the changes that, are going to happen in the next few years in Lisbon, especially regarding the expansion of the Metro network.

[00:26:38] Maria Albuquerque: exit, the service. So it's, demanding to, to use this data, but it's mandatory,to adapt our network to, to make a better supply and a better service for our customers.

[00:27:02] Kaan Yildizgoz: We need to regularly, monitor our services. it's, authorities that are operators, how to manage these relationships. I finished my bachelor's 21 years ago, and then my graduation thesis was focusing on bus franchise contracts. So 21 years ago.

[00:27:19] Kaan Yildizgoz: Now I want to ask this question to the Andy, London is well known with the bus franchise contracts. And then now after COVID-19, what we see is that most cities are having more and more interested in gross cost contract model. And what could be your advices to these cities considering Gross Cost contract model based on your experience in London?

[00:28:10] Andy Lord: People don't realize that, we carry five and a half million passengers a day. on London's bus network. and it is a critical service in areas that are not well served by the London Underground or National Rail. It's also, the cheapest form of travel. So it's critical for the low income, workers, and households to enable them to be mobile across the city.

[00:29:00] Andy Lord: And particularly as we want to transition to a fully zero emission bus fleet, we have to think about the infrastructure that's required, the depots that are required, and how do we ensure we have vehicles that can, manage the journeys, within that. for me it's around making sure you keep the model fresh, that you have an open and honest relationship and see your bus operators as strategic partners.

[00:29:42] Andy Lord: It's resulted in expansion of the services. It's a critical service. But we need to think about what the future holds now and how do we really make the bus something that people want to travel on. And we're trialing a number of things. So you may have heard of our Superloop Express bus network that now [00:30:00] encircles the whole of London.

[00:30:20] Andy Lord: So we're looking at how can we adapt that, provide more services, and how do we make sure we have the right commercial model to deliver that and really make sure that, people choose the bus rather than choose the car.

[00:30:36] Kaan Yildizgoz: And then my question goes to Jonida here. When you are planning the BRT. Are you considering the performance based gross cost contract model with the operators in Tirana?

[00:30:56] Jonida Halili: from the price to the number of the buses [00:31:00] frequencies and everything we are considering, now to go, maybe we are going to net, We are going to stay to net cost contract or going to gross cost contracts. But, of course we're considering, performance, based contracts. But

[00:31:36] Jonida Halili: One of the reasons we are here in the summit is to find the solutions to have, our data. to have all our data and to have them in that way to make our decisions, easier. So this is in our, in our consideration, but, and we hope to go there with, the new system of BRT and the new systems of, controlling the data.

[00:31:59] Technology and Data in Public Transport

[00:32:19] Alexandra Reinagl: thank you for this last, question and come back to the people as we,Mohamed always say we are, moving people and not vehicle, and the service providers, We have to talk about the customers and we have to put them in the center of all our efforts. I can give you some examples among a lot, how we, approach or, are addressing the customers because we don't want to talk about them.

[00:33:11] Alexandra Reinagl: the last was, in terms of how, Can, a bus stop or a station look like? What, what are the customer needs? How would they create, that if they, would be in this position? And, they are,very, very beloved, I must say. We have, a lot of, participants and a waiting list. so I think this ensures that, Tools and services and products are designed, in alignment with their needs. Another, example are our annual, exhibitions and, our public transport customer parties. organized really as a festival is a very big festival for everyone in the city center where we,bring the people or the staff of Wiener Linien from behind the scenes.

[00:34:15] Alexandra Reinagl: and this is also to, to show. the abilities. And the skills. Yeah. I, I invite everybody to attend and to watch what our tram drivers, for example, are able,to do and to deliver. and, talking about listening, and, improving. we, for sure have a customer service management.

[00:34:55] Alexandra Reinagl: Also simple. This is also a question about. What [00:35:00] must or should an application, and I'm sure every operator offers a application, a digital tool for the customers. what should they,serve? And I think, we are in danger at the moment to just overload applications. So we just stopped to deepen, integrate every, additive service, we offer, because, Actually people want an app to watch to, to look for their routes, to get information on the trip about, interruptions and interferences. and they want to buy a ticket.

[00:35:40] Kaan Yildizgoz: My question goes to Andy here, Andy. You as TFL you are using a lot to open data to really enhance the customer experience. how is AI shaping your ability to manage your operations in TFL in London?

[00:35:53] Andy Lord: it's a, it is a huge subject for us. and actually one of the key things you've gotta do is try and put our arms [00:36:00] around it a bit.

[00:36:29] Andy Lord: And we're really looking at learning from, some other transport operators, Singapore, for example, and ourselves where we've done some trials for using AI to help with safety improvements, particularly around the risks around things like platform/train interface, the risk of people accessing the track, either deliberately or, accidentally so that we can create, an automatic process for people to respond in a far quicker way.

[00:37:21] Andy Lord: Succeed quickly, and make sure that we then can make the benefits and see how can they be applied, across the organization. Thank you,

[00:37:44] Maria Albuquerque: Yes, I'm totally, I totally identify with what Andy said here. Our approach is in a different scale, of course, but it's to is exactly this one very target focused in what, are the main problems that we have to [00:38:00] solve. So we are not adapting AI just because it's modern or because everyone speaks about it, but we are focusing.

[00:38:32] Maria Albuquerque: for instance, last year we have faced, around. 1000 hours of interruptions in our operations caused by illegal parking and bus stops or on the tram routes. this means around 40 complete days. So that's something that concerns us, and because of that, we are starting different measures and we are in coordination with the city of Lisbon, which owns us.

[00:39:26] Maria Albuquerque: we are just starting this pilot projects, so we still don't have results to show, but we have a big expectation in this, especially in terms of. An educational approach. Even if we don't have cameras installed in every buses, the car users will know that we are using it and we are, making, enforcement with it.

[00:40:02] Kaan Yildizgoz: Thank you. Thank you so much, Maria. Actually, you know what I believe is that maybe one of the most important KPIs for the bus operators is certainly average commercial speed.

[00:40:17] Conclusion and Closing Remarks

[00:40:30] Kaan Yildizgoz: We talk about the congestion charging, lower emission zones, BRT systems, contracting frameworks, passenger experience technology. Thank you so much. It was great to have you with us.